traditional long fist

[shaolin_allan]

hi i started a thread similiar to this before. a lot of people on here talk about animal styles and tai chi chuan,xingyi,bagua etc.. and when they speak of long fist it's mainly always the sport modern wushu they speak of. I've personally trained in some beijing chuan but was wondering if anyone on here trains traditional long fist and what their style is and info on it, thanks.

[GLW]

You would need to define what you mean by "Traditional Long Fist"

Are you talking about the Nanjing Central Guoshu's flavor that was put together and then ended up in places like Taiwan...and others?

Are you referring to things like the Cha Quan system? There ARE people that do the traditional routines from Cha Quan that have a Contemporary training and flavor...and there are those that do TRADITIONAL flavoring of them. You can't really discount them without knowing the person's roots.

For example, the old compulsory Changquan routine was heavily influenced by Cha Quan...

Would you say that a Cha Quan person like - oh... Wang Ziping - did Contemporary Wushu? (That would be well before the creation of the Contemporary Wushu idea...in fact, with the reformulation of Wushu until the Cultural Revolution one of the things Wang Ziping was noted for was his insistence that the Application - Lian Yong Kan (Art, Health, and Defense) be maintained in whatever was created or else it was NOT Wushu)

So...what are you getting at?

[Lucas]

Look for RoyalDragon or Sal Canzonieri.

If I remember correctly they are both into old school long fist and can give you a lot of information.

[shaolin_allan]

GLW you're right in your aspects but you're reading into it too much. many if not all long fist styles at some time have some modern influence on them. I'm simply looking for others who train in systems like mi zong, pao chui, etc.. I see many threads on animal imitating styles and internal arts, but rarely ever any on long fist, so that's what i'm getting at.

[GLW]

Actually, I wasn't reading much into it at all....just wanting a clarification.

Many talk long fist and are only referring to the Nanjing/Taiwanese variety al Han Ching Tan and such.

That is merely one flavor of a long fist art.

Training for it...best done when you have not had any back injuries or such. The extension - train long use short type of thing to get the waist totally turned and full extension and slingshot from one technique to another...now that is the b!tch to do.

:)

[hvillarruel]

GM Y.C. Chiang taught LongFist, the traditional one. But he is retired now.

:)

[shaolin_allan]

haha GLW yes i have back problems currently and I understand what you mean. "slingshot"'ing is a great metaphor for the transition from technique to another in long fist. I agree many do speak of more contemporary flavors of long fist. personally i dont like or hate modern styles as I have trained some beijing chuan and it was a mix of mainly athletic basic forms. I just believe on this forum that good long fist doesn't seem to get spoken of much. do you feel the same way?
I've seen some amazing mizongquan and three emperor cannon fist before.

[xcakid]

I am currently training in traditional long fist. Actually my lineage kinda forks. ONe fork traces back to Wang Zi Ping another to Fan family which traces back to Shaolin. Although the first 2 forms we have are your classic Central Guoshu's. So in that respect, I guess you can call it somewhat modern. ;)

[GLW]

Well the 'FUN' part of long fist starts early...say with Tan Tui...

From a 10 Line Cha quan Tan Tui, the simple things...

Like #2, looks basic - kick one side, punch the other. But, you look at most people and they never consider that BOTH techniques have to be trained to be able to reach the target. Meaning the waist has to be twisted in the direction of the punch far enough to make the punch as close to the length of the kick as possible... All the while you STILL have to maintain the straight spine, the balance and centering over the supporting foot, and the dropped elbows, shoulders, etc...

Then you get to Tan Tui #3 - with the cloud arms (turning arm strike/block) - getting the entrie body to rotate, stay in the correct plane, NOT be leaning to one side or the other at the stopping point... And then there are the little things like making sure the block imnplied before each kick in each line is actually there...

And that is just Tan Tui....

[Shaolinlueb]

i've done some cha style.

[shaolin_allan]

glw thats the first three forms i learned in my long fist class also. it's mainly beijing chuan though, very basic stuff and is modern traditional mix.

[Sal Canzonieri]

I am currently training in traditional long fist. Actually my lineage kinda forks. ONe fork traces back to Wang Zi Ping another to Fan family which traces back to Shaolin. Although the first 2 forms we have are your classic Central Guoshu's. So in that respect, I guess you can call it somewhat modern. ;)

Actually both branches intersect, as Wang taught Fan ChiSao too.

What's your Fan lineage? where is your school?

Both Fan family and Wang Zi Ping are Shandong long fist styles.
Fan family is Hong Quan and Wang Zi Ping is Hong Quan and Cha Quan.

Fan's lineage is on the internet.

[xcakid]

Actually both branches intersect, as Wang taught Fan ChiSao too.

What's your Fan lineage? where is your school?

Both Fan family and Wang Zi Ping are Shandong long fist styles.
Fan family is Hong Quan and Wang Zi Ping is Hong Quan and Cha Quan.

Fan's lineage is on the internet.

Our schools lineage is through Fan Chi Sau and Fan family. I guess intersect is a better word, that fork. :)
My Sifu learned from Master Azzolini. Who learned from Chen Shuei Tsai. Who learned form Fan Chi Sau.

Here's our lineage chart and info on the school. Shaolin Wu Yi Lineage chart (http://www.swyi.com/lineage.htm) Website has location and our curriculum also. We are big on shuia chiao, I believe that came from Wang Zi Pings branch.

[GLW]

Well, the way I was describing it is the way Wang Ziping passed it on. A lot of the modern aspect has more to do with not knowing where to apply power, where to focus, displaying an understanding of the use of the movement, and adding flowery transitions to an otherwise simple progression.

For example, Madame Wang Jurong would teach Tan Tui and be very exact. Her husband, Dr. Wu Chengde would teach a class every so often... and with him, the emphasis was correct stance, strength in stance, and getting the body to extend while being in balance. With Madame Wang, the applications were always there but she did not discuss them unless your basics were to a level she thought was OK. With Dr. Wu, he did not dwell on the applications unless your basics were also good, but it was more obvious that he had a deep interest in the HOW of the use of each technique. He is able to go from a typical long fist technique and bring out the Shuai jiao in it with zero thought. If he and I were both about 25 years younger....) would love to get his Shuai jiao methods down.