Dai Hung Kei Kwun

[hskwarrior]

can any one tell me about that form?

does anyone have any background information on this form?

BRO JO, this would be a great oppportunity to jump in here.

[CLFNole]

It is a single-head staff form and supposed to be done with a long staff if possible. Someone once told me the pattern of the form forms the shape of kung fu flag/banner likely hence the name Great Red Flag/Banner Single Head Staff (Dai Hung Kay Dan Tou Kwun).

[extrajoseph]

Dai Hung Kei Kwun uses the cloth of the flag to train the long “ging” (the long range dynamic force). The only way to make the flag “sing” is to move your body and the flag as one unit; that is to make the flag an integral part of your body through the stick.

Next time you see a good staff or spear player, his stick is tied to his body (watch his elbow, always hold tight against the body), he never moves it with his limbs on their own, but only with his whole body, so the power comes from the waist and the stance work, reacting from the ground upward and outward.

The quality the sound will give an indication of the level of “ging” achieved. Generally speaking, the sharper the sound the better, so it whistles and the flag don't flutter too much.

[hskwarrior]

Next time you see a good staff or spear player, his stick is tied to his body (watch his elbow, always hold tight against the body), he never moves it with his limbs on their own, but only with his whole body.

thanks BRO JOE,

I agree with what you said as my sifu has always taught us to hold the staff, spear or even kwan do to keep it against our bodies.

anyways, do you know if this form is connected to the Hung Mun, or is it just a flag form?

thanks again

[CLFNole]

XJ:

Do many still play this set with the flag? We just use a really long staff, I have a heavy 9 footer I like to practice with but I have never played it with an actual flag.

Peace.

[extrajoseph]

CLFNole,

When it comes to weapons, CLF is best known for long weapons like the staff and the spear; that is why we have so many of them and it is not accidental that Chan Heung invented the Nine Dragons Trident.

The Kei Kwun is a good training form and we should do more of it, I know the King Mui line uses it a lot. It is different to training with the heavy nine footer; the emphasis is more on working the waist rather than working on the weight and the shaking ging.

You can start with a normal long stick and tie a piece of triangular cloth to it and do the horizontal and diagonal “shad kwun” to see if you can make the right sound with the body integrated with the stick and the flag. Using the air resistance is a good way to sense the correctness of the body movement.

Frank,

I don’t think the Dai Hung Kei Kwun has much to do with the Hung Mun; it has more to do with training the body. Also it looks good when giving a demo, you can flag it!:D

EJ

[fawlung]

When training that set, the energy is a bit different using a flag vs. a long staff. If you do the set without the flag, you'll find that when you add a flag to the end of your.... err... pole... the movements must change or the flag will get all messed up. As EJ stated the sound and air movement play a big part... and a bit of small circular motion to keep the flag going properly.

[CLFNole]

Interesting, I was always told this set was initially designed to be used with a flag; however we have always done it with a long staff. I was taught to utilize various "circles" in the set but it could be different from what you are referring to. If I wanted to try it with a flag, approximately how large should the flag be? XJ said the shape should be triangular (I am guessing like the typical kung fu & lion dance banners).

[fawlung]

I personally would start with a smaller flag to get a feel for it. We use a long rectangular flag at first with a short width... long on the pole, but not very far outward from the pole, maybe 2-3 feet. Then go to a triangular flag like the typical kung-fu/lion dance banners. The circles will vary based on the length of the flag at different parts of the set, or actually, now that I'm really thinking about it... the circles might not vary so much as the amount of ging you'll need to put in it so that the flag will move quickly enough during the transitions. Maybe even a combination of both. :)

Adding a flag will also effect the way your hand slides on the staff depending on how the flag is attached to the pole. It takes a bit of adjustment but not too bad if you're used to using the pole.

[CLFNole]

"long on the pole, but not very far outward from the pole, maybe 2-3 feet"

You kind of lost me here, do you attach it to the end of the pole and it extends 2-3 feet in length?

Roughly how wide and how long are you talking? And is it just attached to the end? Also what type of material do you use - I am guessing something kinda heavy.

Thanks.

[fawlung]

Sorry for the confusion....

Here is a link to one of the flags that Jonie offers: http://www.jonieuniforms.com/Shop/ProdImages/banner_ba02.gif

The dimensions on her flag is 15" x 50" I think. For our Dai Hoong Kay set, we use approximately a 24" x 50" flag. That's not exact. I'll have to check it out tonight during class to be certain. This flag certainly isn't one that you'd put on a staff to train with, it's the best image that I could find online to describe what I was referring to.

For demo purposes, we use a light fabric like silk so that we'll get a nice pop. I've played one before where they used a type of polyester, almost parachute like, material and it had a nice pop to it as well. Our triangular Gwoon banner is made of a light polyester material.

The flag would need to be attached at the top and the bottom. I think the one we have is stapled.

We also have one that has a spear tip at the end of it.

[hskwarrior]

its not clf,

but i thought it was cool......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bulJ7IWADCQ


joseph, are there any forms like this in your clf?

[extrajoseph]

No, nothing like what we do and if there is more than one person on stage, than we'll do the two-man form of Seung Gap Dan Gwun v Dai Hung Kei Gwun.

[hskwarrior]

does this HAVE to be done with a flag?

i've seen two versions of it both didn't have any flags.

[fawlung]

For us, it doesn't have to be done with a flag

[hskwarrior]

I understand the purpose of the flag form if its meant to teach you the energy a flag form has. although i didn't see the purpose along time ago.

[extrajoseph]

Then it will be a stick form and not a flag form.;)

[fawlung]

I could be completely way off base as I don't remember where I got the information I'm about to hand out... so take it with a grain of salt:

For military purposes, flags were used to denote various signals and those that had to carry these flags into battle needed a way to defend themselves if necessary and rather than drop the flag they learned to fight with them still attached.

[hskwarrior]

i believe that japanese used that alot, right?

[fawlung]

Then it will be a stick form and not a flag form.;)

Dai Hung Kwun.... All the Leng Lui will come running!

[fawlung]

i believe that japanese used that alot, right?

Good question, Seeing as how I base all my Japanese military strategy from Tom Cruise and The Last Samurai, I'm probably not the best person to answer this. :D