technique discussion: pau choih

[htowndragon]

CLF and Lama, both very powerful techniques. question is, can you land it?

[diego]

i just jump left bow stance into him and press his upper body with my left hand and pow to the gut with added batman sound efx :) How do you do it in theory and can you land it?.

[Jeong]

Sometimes yeah. It's a good technique because most fighting doesn't come down the vertical line. I almost always use it as a defense technique, someone comes at me and I deflect, move in, and come over the top with Pau Choy.

[Steeeve]

You forget to mention hung gar ,Fu jow pai,tong bei,wing chun,pakua hsing I and so on used the pau choi...the vertical upward attack or defense...different names,different used ,different weapons....

You should be more descriptive about the chinese name you used ....:)

Steeve

[htowndragon]

its hard to be descriptive with chinese. since i am chinese, its kinda like "you should know what i'm talking about" lol

[The Xia]

Here is a photo of Lam Sai Wing striking with a pau choih.
http://www.lghk.org/en/gallery/lsw/pages/027_jpg.htm
It's used quite a few times in this video.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=a6Kx4iXZbW8

[lkfmdc]

Here is a photo of Lam Sai Wing striking with a pau choih.
http://www.lghk.org/en/gallery/lsw/pages/027_jpg.htm



in Lama Pai, that is a Pak Yik Paau, not a "pure" Paau

[lkfmdc]

this is Paau Choih

http://lionsroar.name/david_22.jpg

the pic is probably older than a lot of you on here :D

[bigdoing]

I've always used pau like an upercut. Thats how it was explained to me.
So, yeah, its not hard to land. its an upper cut....with more extension depending on the range.

Actually when I fight (its been a while)....so when i did fight......I worked one combo a lot....(chinese names from my teacher, im probably wrong ill just use english.)

combo....left hand faint.....right hand upper cut (pau)....left hand horizontal sao..right hand 45.sao....

I dirlled this combo a lot..stances vary dependent on situation obviously.

but yeah.....my two cents.

[jdhowland]

The most frequent use of paau that i've seen in sparring is as an uppercut with the arm bent. My favorite use is the classical longhand paau simultaneous strike and throw with the upper arm to the opponent's axilla coupled with "white crane skims water." When it's done right, the fist never touches your opponent. I love the deception in Chinese arts.

[CaliKF]

There are many variations of Pao Choih. In CLF and Hung the straight arm is probably one of the most common or "familiar" (for lack of a better word) as lkfmdc posted a picture of. Then you have the reverse or Fon Pao, the upper cut that we refer to as jiu geng pao.

I would say that the uppercut would be the "easiest" to land but when you combine the techniques like fan pao / pao then landing the straight arm can be landed as well. I don't use pao choih as an advancing or initiating movement as much as I do a defensive or reactive one.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Pau Chui = cannon fist ?

[lkfmdc]

Pau Chui = cannon fist ?

we actually use the charater for "sling"

[sanjuro_ronin]

we actually use the charater for "sling"

Singapore Sling ?? :D

[CaliKF]

we actually use the charater for "sling"

Is there a corrilation for the sling and cannon? What I mean is we call it cannon fist as well. But I was wondering if the reason for the sling charachter would be because they didn't have one for that particular word?

Thanks

[hskwarrior]

all of the pow choy's that we do in the Lau Bun lineage stop at "EYE" level. meaning th flat part of the fist is level with your eyes.

I know we know our gung fu and why "WE" do what we do, but Ross, or anyone else who pau choy's that high, can you tell me why you do it that way?

is it a set up to another move? do you guys feel it generates more power?

you know along those lines.

[CLFNole]

I think that is one of Lama earmarks in the way they do their pow choy.

[hskwarrior]

thats what i thought......

[lkfmdc]

there are stories that Wong Yan Lam lifted 100 lb "ear clappers" (mok yee pai) and that his Paau Choih was used like an uppercut to the chin and was very fierce

I personally always found it better as a "clear" like a Teut Kiuh, or when used like a Tai Jaang, to attack the elbow joint

[hskwarrior]

so its that one of lama's power moves

[lkfmdc]

Kahp Choih is the essential and quintisential power strike in Lama

[sanjuro_ronin]

Kahp Choih is the essential and quintisential power strike in Lama

Pic please ?

[diego]

Steeeve knows more about Kaido's Hop Gar...but the app\s i was shown with an upswingwing motion

say he does right front kick, you shuffle to left leg weighted side bow stance (crane stance) and delfect at (pulls out fitness theory manual :) ) the tibia around the ankle with your left forearm pronated and right palm to inside of femur above the pattella with the right wrist joint hyperextended...uno like double tiger claw the bottom claw turns down and upcuts straight to groin...anyway, deflect the kick and right cranes beak and hit the bottom of his chin with the top of your wrist...that is upswing.

buddy does a lead right hand poke with a knife to your guts...from left horse step to the left side and catch the outside of his forearm with your left forearm and with your right grab the top of his knife hand wrist and hold tight...pivot on left foot still in left side fighting horse and right side kick to his right gut or ribs, and left hand wipes outwards counterclockwise, you guide his knife hand to the left with your left!...and as your right side kick steps into right bow behind his right leg ramming his stance you thrust your palm up to his chin and it resembles a stretch punch.

http://www.geocities.com/tibetankungfu/1straight_punch.html
-----------------------------]------------------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/tibetankungfu/2upswingingpunch_pt1.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/tibetankungfu/upswingingpunch2.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/tibetankungfu/3backhandpunch.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.geocities.com/tibetankungfu/4overheadpunch.html
---------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/tibetankungfu/5stretchpunch.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/tibetankungfu/6whippunch.html
------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/tibetankungfu/7wipepunch.html
------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/tibetankungfu/8choppunch.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/tibetankungfu/9hookpunch.html
---------------------------------]-----------------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/tibetankungfu/10crossoverpunch.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/tibetankungfu/11shovel12lionpunches.html
we got the slick upcut to chin in side cat stance or heel down toe up stance like the mantis stance, and we use the classic supinated hand pow to the gut in twist, horse, bow and crane stance.

[chasincharpchui]

Is there a corrilation for the sling and cannon? What I mean is we call it cannon fist as well. But I was wondering if the reason for the sling charachter would be because they didn't have one for that particular word?

Thanks


well in my style, cannon fist and throwing fist are different punches

paau choi= cannon fist
pow choi= throwing fist/uppercut

the sound of the 2 characters are very simliar

[htowndragon]

i brought up this discussion because coach ross mentioned this combo in the lama sup ji thread. through i've been taught it to "break into the center of the opponent", ii have been able to land the paau choih as a long uppercut to the chin. i knocked out 200lb ex-marine shuai jiao bro of mine with it after 3 months of training hop ga when we were doing medium-hard sparring with 14oz gloves.

kahp choi's importance? cannot be denied.

however, the paau choi is often talked about. like how lung wah (my si gong ng yim ming's disciple in hong kong) was able to lift people up with his paau choi, etc.

however, i was also taught that the application of this move is also often a "feint" for something else. feint if it doesnt land, power shot from hell when it does.

[Steeeve]

Everybody seem to have the same definition of Paau Choi....a long arms uplifting swing ....How we could call a short uppercut(bent arm) strike like the uppercut of a boxing....?

I find really interesting the Lama pai version with the vertical fist ....the impact is done with the bending thumb.....could you imagine the damage done to the opponent .....this version is also interesting if you used it like a block striking to the tricep of the opponentwith the thumb pointing with accuracy ....men ouchhhhh

With the arm in vertical fist even the blocking/strike upward could be a hacking
with the edge of the inside forearm

Steeve

[Jeong]

well in my style, cannon fist and throwing fist are different punches

paau choi= cannon fist
pow choi= throwing fist/uppercut

the sound of the 2 characters are very simliar

Yeah, me too. I thought we were talking about paau choy. I guess scratch what I said if we're discussing pow.

[Steeeve]

pakhok

;) I just waiting for that response ..... So whats the contact area in the paauChoi (vertical fist)....?

But if we look at that the upward motion could be use for defense like what i said for exemple strike the bicept ....the thumb is a good one....if you strike under the chin the thumb is again a good one .....thats a lifting motion to hit smooth area hit the meat not the bone???

If you take the back fist .....and hit the bone(skull) you have a lot of chance to break your hand a lot of small bone in the back of the hand ....maybe thats will be better to used the bottomfist(hammerfist).....

All strike coming from a vertical or diagonal downward angle have more chance to hit the bone (skull) so we need to use more hammering weapon but for upward motion is different

Steeve

[Steeeve]

hokpai

I agree with you...good conversation:)

For sure... pressure point or nerves striking is good in theory ....in fighting no fancy stuff just take the guyhead off:) and striking the bag I use a compact fist(dont know thats good word in english)I mean a big area of the fist

Thats was my next question ....the fist and forearm conditionning since the lion roar system use their fist like a hammer .....some conditionning of the hands is a pre require for use this techniques without breaking the hands...you give some method of conditionning the fist...Could you give more Pleased

From what you said here in tibetan white crane the paau choi is done with the back fist ???

Maybe Michael or David could give more info about the paau choi (vertical fist ) and the thumb.....?

Just different method nobody is wrong:)

Thank

Steeve

[htowndragon]

pound your fists together 10-20 times a day. easiest way to condition your knuckles

[htowndragon]

i dont have my own set of mok yee pai right now, so i train my punches with wrist weights and dumbells. at 10 pounds right now, working my way up. i still need a pair of mok yee pai but no one is willing to make a pair at a resonable price or sell them

[Steeeve]

Htowndragon

Why not try the kettle dumbell??? thats look a little bit like the mok yee pai:)

Steeve

[htowndragon]

grip difference, im buying some kettlebells though. the grips on most kettle bells make you grip it differently