information about jiu wan

[deejaye72]

anybody know anything about jiu wan? his training methods,how good was he?his family and maybe stories and exploits.if anyone can point me in the right direction it will be much appreciated.we know so much about yipman and thanks to people like rene ritchie, we now know about yuen kay san.i'd like to right a nice history on him and his art.

[reneritchie]

Hi Eddie,

Here's one article:

http://www.wingchunkuen.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=118

[LoneTiger108]

Hi Eddie,

Here's one article:

http://www.wingchunkuen.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=118

Now 'that's what I call an article'!!!

Jiu Wan and Lee Shing were great friends and the article is an inspiration to anyone in the Wing Chun Family.

Why are there no articles on Lee Shing like this Rene?

[reneritchie]

I haven't found one on Lee Shing sifu yet! If you have any, please don't hesitate to send them my way!

[R Clausnitzer]

Now 'that's what I call an article'!!!

Jiu Wan and Lee Shing were great friends and the article is an inspiration to anyone in the Wing Chun Family.

Why are there no articles on Lee Shing like this Rene?


Hi Spencer

I can recall at least one lengthy, detailed article on Lee Sing from the early 1970's, in Combat magazine, a British publication still flourishing)......it was around the time that I was training with Greco Wong Wai Chung (Moy Yat's first senior disciple) and a couple of other excellent Wing Chun practitioners who had picked up a lot from both Greco and Paul Lam (Leung Sheung's first senior disciple).

I'll have a look for my copy of the magazine, time permitting.

In the interim, why not contact the publisher?

Regards.

Rolf

[R Clausnitzer]

I haven't found one on Lee Shing sifu yet! If you have any, please don't hesitate to send them my way!



Hi Rene

Trust you are well and in good spirits. :)

I can recall contributing to a thread some years ago either on this forum or another one (maybe yours or the defunct HK Feet Kune Do forum.....no, that's not a misspelling :)), where I was suggesting that the contribution of Greco Wong and Paul Lam to introducing WCK to the general public in the United Kingdom in the mid to late '60s was either overlooked or simply not known.

Fwiw, my perception is that Lee Sing sifu was perhaps the first to start teaching, behind closed doors, in his restaurant in London's Soho district, but did not include gweilos originally in his classes (that changed in the '70's).

Greco and Paul, however, banded together and started teaching beginners, irrespective of ethnic origin, in the mid to late '60's, in a hall in Earlham Street, previously used by some well known Karate pioneers, and just a few hundred metres from Lee Sing's restaurant.

Kind regards.

Rolf

[Nick Forrer]

Greco and Paul, however, banded together and started teaching beginners, irrespective of ethnic origin, in the mid to late '60's, in a hall in Earlham Street, previously used by some well known Karate pioneers, and just a few hundred metres from Lee Sing's restaurant.

Kind regards.

Rolf

The hall was used by Steve Morris

Here are some links that discuss it - plus joseph cheng another pioneer



With not much building work around Reading, I decided to move to London,....... It was around the same time, the summer of 1971, that by chance in Chinatown I ran into Joseph Cheng of Wing Chun fame. Charismatic and with something completely new to show, he set me off on my study of Wing Chun.

..........Out of the blue I had a phone call from an old friend, Bob Ashing. He asked me if I would be interested in being the resident instructor of a karate club in the West End planned by one David DuBow and his wife Erika. 'When do I start?' was my reply.

From Joseph Cheng I'd heard that Paul Lam, another Wing Chun advocate, had recently vacated 9 Earlham Street.

Joseph Cheng, who taught Wing Chun at the club, also helped change my perception of things martial, in that it was by way of Joseph (who was from Fujian) that I first learned about the Yung Chun connection to Wing Chun and realized the possibility of a Yung Chun connection to Goju Ryu and Uechi Ryu—that was in 1971




http://www.morrisnoholdsbarred.co.uk/07pedigree.htm



another one


I started Wing Chun with Joseph Chang in 1971 and continued working with/adapting it until the late 80's/early 90s. I used it to support the Yung Chun White Crane elements with Goju ryu, which had been pointed out to me by Joseph. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Now Joseph Cheng, you wanted to see him doing a full workout of his Wing Chun stuff on a parking meter. It was absolutely brilliant, the thing would be vibrating, he'd be going through his full repertoire on it. He said every time he passed this parking meter on his way home, he'd train on it.

http://selfprotection.lightbb.com/q-a-with-steve-morris-f16/body-tempering-t4429.htm



and picture

http://www.morrisnoholdsbarred.co.uk/07gallery.htm

[R Clausnitzer]

The hall was used by Steve Morris

Here are some links that discuss it - plus joseph cheng another pioneer



With not much building work around Reading, I decided to move to London,....... It was around the same time, the summer of 1971, that by chance in Chinatown I ran into Joseph Cheng of Wing Chun fame. Charismatic and with something completely new to show, he set me off on my study of Wing Chun.

..........Out of the blue I had a phone call from an old friend, Bob Ashing. He asked me if I would be interested in being the resident instructor of a karate club in the West End planned by one David DuBow and his wife Erika. 'When do I start?' was my reply.

From Joseph Cheng I'd heard that Paul Lam, another Wing Chun advocate, had recently vacated 9 Earlham Street.

Joseph Cheng, who taught Wing Chun at the club, also helped change my perception of things martial, in that it was by way of Joseph (who was from Fujian) that I first learned about the Yung Chun connection to Wing Chun and realized the possibility of a Yung Chun connection to Goju Ryu and Uechi Ryu—that was in 1971




http://www.morrisnoholdsbarred.co.uk/07pedigree.htm



another one


I started Wing Chun with Joseph Chang in 1971 and continued working with/adapting it until the late 80's/early 90s. I used it to support the Yung Chun White Crane elements with Goju ryu, which had been pointed out to me by Joseph. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Now Joseph Cheng, you wanted to see him doing a full workout of his Wing Chun stuff on a parking meter. It was absolutely brilliant, the thing would be vibrating, he'd be going through his full repertoire on it. He said every time he passed this parking meter on his way home, he'd train on it.

http://selfprotection.lightbb.com/q-a-with-steve-morris-f16/body-tempering-t4429.htm



and picture

http://www.morrisnoholdsbarred.co.uk/07gallery.htm


Thanks, Nick.......great stuff, very helpful in the context of my failing memory :)

I have been an admirer of Steve Morris for decades......I recall Vijay Paul, one of my teachers, describing Steve's handling of the wooden dummy as quite startlingly powerful and noisy, probably influenced by his Karate background. :)

Regards.

Rolf

[Nick Forrer]

Thanks, Nick.......great stuff, very helpful in the context of my failing memory :)

I have been an admirer of Steve Morris for decades......I recall Vijay Paul, one of my teachers, describing Steve's handling of the wooden dummy as quite startlingly powerful and noisy, probably influenced by his Karate background. :)

Regards.

Rolf

Yeah Steves amazing

His wing chun level is very high despite not being a wc practitioner (actually I would guess you would say it is generic southern fist skill - hes also very good at FMA and hand fighting (wrestling)).

He has great root and great issuing power too. Have personally been on the end of his sanchin double punch.

some of his ideas he talks about here

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=n-nUDZQE8IY

[Vajramusti]

Small world. Vijay and I corresponded a bit years ago. He owes me a letter but I dont have his address any more.He had been learning from Paul Lam.
I gather that Paul Lam and Joseph Cheng were not quite friends.

Paul had hakka in his background.

Alan Lamb knew them all-he learned from the Lee Sing(via Cheng) and the Leung Shun (via Lam) lines.

That was good little pioneering (in English) book that you did with Greco Wong.

joy chaudhuri

[Nick Forrer]

bit more about Lee shing and jiu wan in this article

http://www.josephleewingchun.com/LeeShing.jsp

[deejaye72]

thank you rene, great article. i loved to write a book about jiu wan!man,i got my work cut out for me.

[reneritchie]

See, now, to get all corny, this is the kind of thread that makes the internet worthwhile: just a bunch of folks chatting and sharing and benefitting from the experience.

Thanks!

[R Clausnitzer]

thank you rene, great article. i loved to write a book about jiu wan!man,i got my work cut out for me.


Hi Eddie

Echoing Rene's sentiments, I was wondering if you have already seen the brief entries for Jiu Wan and Sifu Jiu Wan on Wikipedia.......one lineage diagram shows him as one of the direct students, along with Ip Man, under Chan Wah Shun.

Two of America's best known WCK teachers, Jason Lau and Francis Fong, are listed as direct students of Jiu Wan.....have you approached them for info?

Regards.

Rolf

[Vajramusti]

Jason is a tough wing chun person and he has trained some very good wing chun students.
One of my great pleasures was to see Wong S.L., Tsui Tsong Tin and Jason do their slt on the same stage....to a full house.

joy chaudhuri

[R Clausnitzer]

Small world. Vijay and I corresponded a bit years ago. He owes me a letter but I dont have his address any more.He had been learning from Paul Lam.
I gather that Paul Lam and Joseph Cheng were not quite friends.

Paul had hakka in his background.

Alan Lamb knew them all-he learned from the Lee Sing(via Cheng) and the Leung Shun (via Lam) lines.

That was good little pioneering (in English) book that you did with Greco Wong.

joy chaudhuri


Small world indeed......I too last corresponded with him years ago. Vijay is a fascinating character, born of an Indian father and a Czech mother (even more unusual than my combination), not particularly tall, but built like a tank and either an ex British paratrooper or marine to boot. He may be in his early 70's by now.

Although he trained under Paul Lam, he was also exposed to Greco's teaching a fair bit, as Greco and Paul often taught together.

For a while Vijay left WCK and researched the traditional Indian martial arts before returning to a deeper and what seemed to me at times an esoteric understanding of WCK.

I was not aware of anything between Paul and Joseph, but if there was, it would not be all that surprising, owing to the noticeable differences between Leung Sheung's and Lee Sing's interpretations.

I saw Joseph just once in London's Chinatown. We happened to catch one another's eye, I thought about approaching him, but changed my mind.....with hindsight, I wish I had, I am sure we would have had an interesting conversation.

I met Paul twice and rolled with him once......he told me I was too tense and using too much strength, which was true as I had a difficult time relaxing :)

I have incorporated my memories, impressions, and perceptions of Greco, Paul, Joseph, and Alan Lamb, amongst others in the updated version of my book, but you'll have to wait until I take that final step towards publication. :)

Kind regards.

Rolf

[deejaye72]

thanks,rolf and joy, my dad has been a student of sifu jason lau since the 70's.my dad moved to georgia to be closer to him in 1990 and then i followed in 1992.i remeber being like 7 or 8 years old running around sifu lau's school on flatbush ave in new york city.he chased me and yelled at me lol. anyway,he was the first person i'm gonna talk to when i get my crap altogether!.

[LoneTiger108]

Hi Spencer

I can recall at least one lengthy, detailed article on Lee Sing from the early 1970's, in Combat magazine, a British publication still flourishing)......it was around the time that I was training with Greco Wong Wai Chung (Moy Yat's first senior disciple) and a couple of other excellent Wing Chun practitioners who had picked up a lot from both Greco and Paul Lam (Leung Sheung's first senior disciple).

I'll have a look for my copy of the magazine, time permitting.

In the interim, why not contact the publisher?

Regards.
Rolf

Hey Rolf!

Another article I know of was one produced by Joseph Lee for MAI, as he has a transcription of it on his site: http://www.josephleewingchun.com/Interview.jsp

I do know of another one that was printed at about the same time as Joseph Chengs book, and I'm sure I have a copy in my loft somewhere! I've seen a pic of Lee Shing in Combat way back, and I believe it was his ONLY personal promotion in any magazine. The only other thing I've seen 'in print', other than Sifu Gohs books, was the funeral notice in the Chinatown newspaper. Golden knowledge there also, as there is the only 'list' of his students ever to be printed in the Chinese language.

The name Steve Morris is sooooooooo familiar to me also, as Sifu chatted to me about him before as we have (from a Chinese point of view!) similar backgrounds.

[LoneTiger108]

See, now, to get all corny, this is the kind of thread that makes the internet worthwhile: just a bunch of folks chatting and sharing and benefitting from the experience.

Thanks!

Totally in agreement Rene!

I was contacted by a student of the Jiu Wan Family on this forum when I first posted here, so I'll check out who it was and get back to everyone...

[LoneTiger108]

Check out Post 14 from 'Snake & Crane'...

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?p=807388&highlight=Chiu+Van#post807388

[sanjuro_ronin]

Yeah Steves amazing

His wing chun level is very high despite not being a wc practitioner (actually I would guess you would say it is generic southern fist skill - hes also very good at FMA and hand fighting (wrestling)).

He has great root and great issuing power too. Have personally been on the end of his sanchin double punch.

some of his ideas he talks about here

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=n-nUDZQE8IY

Ah Steve...even though he rags on my beloved kyokushin, he has every right too.
I love his stuff.
He needs a haircut ;)

[reneritchie]

Rolf,

Very nice to cross paths with you again as well. You blazed a trail many of us still hurry to follow. Hope all is well, and best regards.

[hunt1]

Reading this thread brought back memories of my younger days. My first teacher was Richard Chen, Jason's older brother. He not only went through the full system with Jui Wan but also liked Moy Yats wing chun and becaome one of his early disciples.

At one time during 83/84 is seemed as though every wing chun person that came to the North America from Hong Kong passed through Atlanta. Got to hear the stories before all the wing chun BS started in earnest. Great stories about Yip Man hanging out at Jiu Wans school. Who fought who on the streets from different street gangs. I didnt realize at the time that getting first hand accounts from those that were and involved was so special. Makes one sad when you read all the " modified history" held out today as facts .

[Ultimatewingchun]

I knew Richard Chen also from back in the Moy Yat days. He was quite the intellectual, actually. He spent lots of time talking theory and wing chun history with Moy Yat. When I arrived in May, 1975 he was already there - but was gone by around the end of 1976-early 1977 if I remember correctly. He was a nice guy.

[hunt1]

Hello Victor , Richard is a great guy. I was very lucky to be introduced to wing chun through him. He never had many students which is a shame because he knew far more wing chun than his better known counterparts . He also made a point of showing how Moy Yats wing chun differed from Jui Wans. His relationship with Moy yat was a bit different because of his background.

He hooked up with Moy Yat originally because he was just looking for a place to train he wasn't interested in learning from Moy Yat. He then saw things he liked that were different than how Jui Wan did them. He quizzed Moy yat about the differences and thats how he actually became a student of Moy Yat. He introduced me to Moy Yat and I got to hear from Moy Yat how he got his wing chun from Yip Man. Even heard some good William Cheung stories.

Richard was an intellectual but in his younger days in Hong Kong he had lots of hands on experience. Francis told some of those stories.

[deejaye72]

hunt1,i met richard once when i took bai si from sifu lau in 1993.after the ceremony and dinner,a few of us went to sifu lau's house to hang out.hey,man tell me some stories lol! heres my email deejay72@yahoo.com.