What good uses are there for Lan Sau?

[Lugoman]

Is this just a strong arm shape in WC?

I've only used it to drive my elbow across my chi sau partner's arms to trap them and clear a way.

What else can this puppy do?

[sihing]

Is this just a strong arm shape in WC?

I've only used it to drive my elbow across my chi sau partner's arms to trap them and clear a way.

What else can this puppy do?

Lan Sau when done correctly can make space btwn you and your opponent, when your jammed up by your opponent . Check out David Peterson's Chum Kiu vid, he talks about this quite extensively showing the concept and applications behind Lan (barrier) Sau, from the WSL line.

James

[Ultimatewingchun]

And on offense - it can be used to jam him up and then proceed to strike with the other hand, or perhaps as part of a setup to an elbow strike with the same lan sao arm, or as a setup for a bodylock and takedown, or any number of clinches or collar ties.

It's a very useful concept/technique.

[t_niehoff]

Is this just a strong arm shape in WC?

I've only used it to drive my elbow across my chi sau partner's arms to trap them and clear a way.

What else can this puppy do?

From my perspective, I'd suggest you first look at all the "bridge arms" from a more comprehensive view: that they are all doing the same thing (skill), but are just variations on that theme. For example, if you look at the pins in BJJ, they all have different shapes, but the objective behind all of them is the same: to control your opponent by putting your bodyweight on him to prevent his movement. The various "pin shapes" arise because there are different ways to align your body in relation to your opponent's body to do that (based on what he is doing). And you can move between pins (the various shapes), while maintaining the control. Moreover, the pins aren't really fixed shapes, but are dynamic, adaptive actions that we use.

In my view, the "bridge arms" of WCK have a similar purpose, to permit us to project our body structure into our opponent (his bridges or body) and thereby control him. Depending on what the opponent does, our bridge arms will align to maintain projection of that structure. In this way, the bridge arms are extensions of our horse (body), as our "structure" is generated by our body (horse) and all our steps, horses, etc. are doing the same thing, creating a projected body structure, and our bridges are just the various alignments our arms need to take to act as conduits of that structure (this is why these things are whole body movements and use whole body power -- the bridge is an extension of the horse). In the case of lan sao, it is a short bridge variation, for when you are close (at elbow depth) to an opponent.

Anyway, that's my $0.02.

[Ali. R]

The “lan sao” can also redirect energy off the “mon sao”, like when one is turning in the “chum kil” form, I’ll make a clip in class today… I can of think of six different ways to use it, strictly wing chun of course … Tell then here’s a “lon sao” application…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CucBbet1SUY :D


Ali Rahim.

[donbdc]

Here's my notes on uses for Chum Kiu's Lon Sau I've learned so far - but then again, I'm just testing for my second belt:

Pivot through 180°, shoulders square to the wall, arm square to the chest for "Shoulder Line" HELM power instead of IEML "Elbow Line" power. Even the slightest amount of non-squareness will detract from your ability to use the elbow to press the opponent's arm in a Layover Trap as well as your ability to punch with your other hand during that trap. Although you are facing to the side, Chum Kiu Lon Sau stays in the same place in relation to your body as Siu Leem Tau Lon Sau. This introduces the idea of Yin Blocking Reference - Yin blocks focus on the Self-Centerline to create the same Cutting Angle effect as centrally-focused Yang blocks. This is known as the "Yin Cutting Angle." Siu Leem Tau double Lon Sau had no Yin/Yang Structure because it was not done with a pivot. But you can only do one side with a pivot or you will rob yourself of power. Lon Sau is to Lop Sau what Biu is to Boang or what Biu Joang Sau is to Biu; Lon Sau is used when grabbing his straight across arm because if you use Lop, he can borrow your power for his own counterpunch. Lon at least pulls him away from his Attack Line. Lon Sau is used as a grab in Lop Sau or Chee Sau. Chee Sau - prevents opening the head when pulling in some situations. "Lon Sau is like Boang Sau moving backwards." Use as Layover Trap; after Outside Draw or in Pock Sau Cycle. Single or double emergency defense vs lapel grab. Use Lon Sau to "Cross-up" double trap when you already have Lop; I Lop/Fun He defends with Woo. I use Lon Sau Cross-up Grab, same time headbutt or kick. Same structure can be used as a Trapping Reversal vs his Cross-up Trap; He has Cross-up Trap > Lon/Sau Kuen Pull/Headbutt or Front kick. Lon Sau works better than Sau Kuen as the top half of a Cross-up Trap because it pulls him to the side, thus preventing him from headbutting you with power borrowed from your double downward pull and creating a Trapping Reversal on you. Use as Pon Geng Sau neck trap after forearm hit; if he ducks vs my Fun Sau I can use Fook Sau as a strike, then Lon PGS neck trap/Pai Jahng. In Chee Sau - He or I initiates Biu attack - defend using Back Bracing Biu, Front Bracing Lai Sau into forearm hit, Lon PGS/Pai J. Lon Sau choke or Seep Ma Choking Throw after Loy Pock/Forearm Strike. When he won't release Lop after Lop/Fun and I have defended with Woo - I use Lon twist to position his arm for Gripknock Chum Jahng. Use Lon Sau to trap his chest or shoulder during sweeps to get his weight turning; skip Round kick to thigh (Stick to leg on the way down), Plant/Trap/Ld punch, Lon Sau chest press/Lau Ma Sweep, stomp ankle. I Jab he uses Woo, I Lop/Punch, Retrap/Punch, Woo Wrap/Chahng Dai Jahng, Lon Shoulder trap/Loy Jut Gyeuk Sweep, Stomp ankle. Use Lon as Reverse Rr Pon Geng Sau - In Chee Sau; From Low Fook - Pau/Lop, Keylock into Lau Ma Huen Fook Armlock (use Lon under chin for throat/neck control. Uses for Lon as a lever; From your cross arm underarm clamp trap, slip Lon under his arm and lock your own hands to create upward elbow lever. Use vs Side Headlock; Throw Lon Sau over his shoulder across the neck/brace own wrist using Pock and press to get his weight over far leg. Slide feet together and kick out his far leg.. Use as Head and Arm Choke; After Closed Pock Da Chop K, slip up to Lon Head and Arm Choke. Lon Choking Throw after Lop/Punch, Ngoy Seen Wai Loy Pock/Ngahn Woon, Lon PGS/HB, start Seep Ma/Lon Bicep to neck, finish Seep Ma/Lon Choking Throw. Used in Groundfighting as choke; 4's top - far arm take/head smash, circle out/slip through to underarm/neck Lon choke or sideward/upward neck-cranking hip-leverage Head Chancery choke/headlock. Groundfighting Arm Pin - I in Mount, double Lop his cross arm …He resists > Smash elbow into floor, Smash hand into floor at 90° and pin it there, Soang Jahng Smash to head, Lon lays over to pin his arm at 90°, Huen Fook Sau under his arm to grab own wrist, put head on own hand, ride own elbow up own thigh to crank. Use Lon Bar Arm pressure to neck; He on stomach - use Hairlift to go into choke …He brings his arm across his own throat to prevent choke - keep hair/grab his wrist, press head/pull arm hard across his throat, release hair/thumb-up switchgrab, Lon pressure to crank down on back of neck/repeated punches to temple or palms to back of head. Use as "Figure 4" ankle lock after Chum Jahng/Woo Wrap stops/traps his Sidekick. Use as Figure 4 Armlock; Chee Sau attack from Boang - reach up to Throat Grab, Jeen Kuen, Armlock/Leanback/Front kick. To stop Side Shoulder Butt as in Syeung Bock Drill or vs Pon Geng Sau/Shoulder Butt. Used as defense vs headbutt; I Inside Gum Sau vs his cross arm, He headbutt use Lon forearm across chest. Use as defense vs Lon/Leak Chau Kuen; I Jab - he defends with Boang, then uses Lon/Leak Chau K - defend with lead Lon to his bicep. Lon Sau is a Fook family Yin motion. Lon Sau can also be used as an upward-twisting forearm smash under the jaw after a low-line block or trap. "Chum Kiu Lon Sau Fot Loang Hoong" - "The L-Bar Arm of Chum Kiu is a powerful technique." Lon Sau is also the Root of Lon Gyeuk. Groundfighting usage; He has your Guard - use a double Pau Flesh Grab, put one foot on his hip (Gum Gyeuk with Lau Sut Soh structure), lay Lon Gyeuk across his waist, Loy Jut Gyeuk Sweep out his leg or Lau Sut Soh Press his other knee to reverse to take Guard.

Hope you guys can make sense of my notes. These are just the Lon Sau applications we learn in my school at Chum Kiu level. I'm sure there will be a bunch more at Wooden Dummy, Biu Jee, Pole and Knife levels.

[Jeff Bussey]

I personally like the idea of lan sau as a clearing arm.

An example of this would be if someone grabbed you from behind and you turn with your lan sau and punch him with the other arm.

The problem with my example is someone I know felt a grab from behind in a bar, he turned with his clearing arm and then he felt pretty bad when he had to help the waitress pick up all of those drinks he just knocked on the floor :D

The idea of your body working together as you clear something I think is the main idea behind it.

[Graychuan]

The “lan sao” can also redirect energy off the “mon sao”, like when one is turning in the “chum kil” form, I’ll make a clip in class today… I can of think of six different ways to use it, strictly wing chun of course … Tell then here’s a “lon sao” application…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CucBbet1SUY :D


Ali Rahim.


I like the arm break/locking application you have shown us with the Di-Lan-Trin-Ma (double forearm pressing with turning stance) out of Chum Kil. Good stuff, Sifu.

~Cg~

[Mr Punch]

It's great for holding the towel over your arm as you wait tables, or to maintain a strong structure while carrying a plate or two, or a medium size baby in the rush hour on an overcrowded train.

Apart from barring, jamming and clearing as mentioned it is used for uprooting and serves the basis for a lot of short power horizontal elbow strikes and a hard bridge for outer gate entry.

[reneritchie]

Like any movement in WCK, it can be used in various ways for offense and defense. It can obstruct attacks by occupying the space first, disrupt attacks by changing the angles/leverage, uproot/displace an opponent's body, strike into an opponent's body, etc.

[Lugoman]

Thank you all for your comments on Lan Sau and nice video Ali. R. Definitely worth a 1001 words.

I think I will make LS my favorite WC shape of the month and use some suggestions here and see where I can and cannot use it.

Thank you all again for giving me so many new and interesting ideas.

[Ali. R]

Thank you all for your comments on Lan Sau and nice video Ali. R. Definitely worth a 1001 words.

I think I will make LS my favorite WC shape of the month and use some suggestions here and see where I can and cannot use it.

Thank you all again for giving me so many new and interesting ideas.


Hey, thanks a lot I’m glad you liked it...:):D:)
I will be posting new clips on this subject…


Ali Rahim.

[Ali. R]

Just like all of the other apps that we do are really based off reaction, mainly in the terms of “da”… I’m using the “lan sao” with “tren mah”, therefore redirecting the energy with the bar arm “lan sao” when countering…

Remember that we’re only talking about the hands, if one can deal with their opponent’s feet, then one would be forced to use the hands, if you feel that your opponent may have a slight jump up on you, then attack the attack when defending…

A real fight happens up close, if your opponent runs away when fighting, then you walk away in the other direction home, because he is not there too fight when is only posturing… Basically he is unsure of himself (The Bashful Monkey) and takes a life and death situation and turns it into a sport…

A real fight (possible life and death) shouldn’t last no more then 10 to 20 seconds, that’s if you really value your life, and posturing could get you killed in the streets…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wc0lueDiCSM


Ali Rahim.

[k gledhill]

Just to annoy T ...Ive used it to fight ninjas on several occasions...
one time I was protecting a bar manager from 2 ninja..one went to hit the manager , I was positioned behind and to the right of the attacker as he took a swing he moved hs right arm back and I 'reverse' lop saoed him so he span an faced me :D poor sod !..he came at me , but due to our training he was simply wide open so as he moved closer ..and closer ..I calmly was calculating what to hit him with ...started like this , kick, punch, palm ...elbow ! but elbow strike thrown as a lansao [ forearm smash using the elbow] right into his head ...he feel back like a tree , hitting his jaw again as he passed a table , with 2 old irish guys still drinking calmly....offering me advice to kick him while he's down etc... love the irish :D....**** ninja's !
another time , same bar different ninja's..i just used it as bussey did to turn to fend off a guy grab at my head/neck from behind as I faced off with another ninja...
sometimes it just a action to move throught the flow of a fight , unseen but there in energy...good for recovering a trap that started on the inside gate but moved laterally so simpy taking the trap presented ...like a tan turning to lan from a fook Xing the line laterally .....follow that ? :rolleyes:

[Ali. R]

When using a "lop sao", "fook sao", "kow sao', ect; you have too use your hands, with the“lan sao” and “mon sao” together only structure, having time to throw more strikes… :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wc0lueDiCSM


Ali Rahim.