Tradition

[tattooedmonk]

comes from the latin word "traditio" meaning to" hand over" or "pass down".

I know that there are many traditions in the martial arts and everyone claims or seems to believe what they practice or have learned what is truely traditional.

I believe that many people misuse this word and / or do not know what it means.

What do you think??

What are some of the traditions that you practice, old or new??

What makes someones traditions right or wrong??

Is that even possible??:D:cool:

[sanjuro_ronin]

Personally the only tradition that matters is the INTENT in which the creator of a system, developed that system.

If it was developed as a practical fighting system, then it must remain so and anything that lowers that standard is going against tradition.
If it was developed as a form of exerces ot spiritual pursuit, then that is the tradition of that system.

Anythign else is added on window dressing.

[monji112000]

comes from the latin word "traditio" meaning to" hand over" or "pass down".

I know that there are many traditions in the martial arts and everyone claims or seems to believe what they practice or have learned what is truely traditional.

I believe that many people misuse this word and / or do not know what it means.

What do you think??

What are some of the traditions that you practice, old or new??

What makes someones traditions right or wrong??

Is that even possible??:D:cool:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRdfX7ut8gw:rolleyes:
LOL I crack myself up.

[Mano Mano]

From what you said in the Why do people think they should get to train for free? Thread tradition seams have different a meaning: to take or taken & do what you want with it because you’ve paid for it.

[David Jamieson]

Tradition also creates identity.

[tattooedmonk]

From what you said in the Why do people think they should get to train for free? Thread tradition seams have different a meaning: to take or taken & do what you want with it because you’ve paid for it.Hw did you get this out of what i posted ?? Y sure you can make anything look the way you want to if you take it out of context.

Think what you want.

Where is it written that I can not take what I have learned and teach it how I want to in the format that I choose. I like how convenient it is to say I am not being a traditionalist and i am stealing the arts by not getting perimission but everybody else can bastadize the arts and its okay because it is american and we are a capitalistic country and all that. Whatever. pull your head out of your a$$

[lkfmdc]

Where is it written that I can not take what I have learned and teach it how I want to in the format that I choose.



People like you are a disgrace to the arts and dishonor them. You are a sell out, obviously since you couldn't advance in Shaolin Do (you were kicked out!) you've decided to try and pass off some choy suey you made up as "Shaolin". I am sure the founders of Shaolin Do are rolling in their graves at your disrespect

[Mook Jong]

Think what you want. Where is it written that I can not take what I have learned and teach it how I want to in the format that I choose. I like how convenient it is to say I am not being a traditionalist and i am stealing the arts by not getting perimission but everybody else can bastadize the arts and its okay because it is american and we are a capitalistic country and all that. Whatever. pull your head out of your a$$

It's not written anywhere but for someone who espouses 'traditional' views, it does not seem like you follow them. There is nothing wrong with non-traditional training or views, it just seems that you are switching back and forth.

[tattooedmonk]

People like you are a disgrace to the arts and dishonor them. You are a sell out, obviously since you couldn't advance in Shaolin Do (you were kicked out!) you've decided to try and pass off some choy suey you made up as "Shaolin". I am sure the founders of Shaolin Do are rolling in their graves at your disrespectGuess you did not read as to how and why I was kicked out. No matter.where in that list of material is anything made up?? I created my own school and system just like the masters before me.

[tattooedmonk]

It's not written anywhere but for someone who espouses 'traditional' views, it does not seem like you follow them. There is nothing wrong with non-traditional training or views, it just seems that you are switching back and forth.No, I am choosing as to which traditions I want to follow.But they do utilize many of the traditions from chinese , Japanes e and Indonesian varieties of the Shaolin Arts.

There is a difference.

The traditions that I am establishing are different than yours and others peoples. But it does not make them better or worse , just different. All the traditions that are used and practiced in schools today are modern traditions . I am getting back to the roots using Taoism , Buddhism, Shamanism , and Confucianism as the base.

[Mook Jong]

Fair enough i can see where you're coming from. I think the problem is that when most people hear traditional (by most people i pretty much mean me), they assume that it's going to be one tradition, not several.

[Laukarbo]

To me tradition doesnt mean HOW to train..it means to train hard but in a 2007 way not 1765. Tradition means to preserve the style and keep it polished...at no time let it get dusted.:D

[tattooedmonk]

Fair enough i can see where you're coming from. I think the problem is that when most people hear traditional (by most people i pretty much mean me), they assume that it's going to be one tradition, not several.Cool . You see this is the thing, it is one tradition that has many branches. Ones that went from China, to Japan , Indonesia, and then America.(There are others these are the main ones Iam working with).

I am just bringing everything full circle. Most people do not care or misunderstand and do not want to listen because they already have their preconceived ideas.

There is a lot to be learned from the areas and regions that the art has traveled in. Many of the traditions that have been adopted are cultural as well as many of the adaption and interpretations . Bringing everything together from these multiple sources gives a clear picture of what the Shaolin arts are truely all about. If we just take the Chinese view then we are leaving out the others cultures contributions and those parts of the evolution of the arts.

This does not make sense if you truely want to embody the true essence of the arts

Anyway thanks for understanding.

[tattooedmonk]

To me tradition doesnt mean HOW to train..it means to train hard but in a 2007 way not 1765. Tradition means to preserve the style and keep it polished...at no time let it get dusted.:Dif done right they should be very similar. we just have better equipment, greater technology and more knowledge about the human body now.

[yutyeesam]

There is a lot to be learned from the areas and regions that the art has traveled in. Many of the traditions that have been adopted are cultural as well as many of the adaption and interpretations . Bringing everything together from these multiple sources gives a clear picture of what the Shaolin arts are truely all about. If we just take the Chinese view then we are leaving out the others cultures contributions and those parts of the evolution of the arts.


If you ever get a chance to watch Ross' DVDs, he does exactly this. He is extremely knowledgeable with the traditional arts, and he cites them and their core concepts and principles and how they apply in Sanda.

And he knows how to run a business well. Doesn't make his knowledge and teachings any less valid.

You have a total misperception about it, because you are looking from the outside. And based off of that outside look, you cast the first stone. Why not cast stones and give your critique AFTER you've seen the videos/visit the school? You prejudged and casted the first stone. That is why he is being hard on you.

If you want insight into his philosophy of how he reconciles his traditional CMA and his business acumen, why take the antagonistic approach? You get nowhere very fast that way.

I don't know about you, but in my TCMA training, I was taught that if you show respect, you will get respect. Casting stones and antagonizing with prejudged critiques that only have basings in outside observation is NOT a way to show respect for someone you wanted to discuss an issue with.

Peace.

[tattooedmonk]

I do not neccesarilly agree with his methods but from what I have read and heard about him I know that what you are saying is true.I do not see where he gives that much respect so why should he get it.? He belittles a lot of people who are less fortunate and priviledge as he has been . I know that he has worked hard to get where he is at , he makes it sound like he did it on his own with no help. I have asked questions and was attacked as well. It makes no never mind now. I am over it.

[bawang]

i thought you had a point until i remembered you do shaolin do.

All the traditions that are used and practiced in schools today are modern traditions
don't be a frog in the bottom of a well.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Can you teach a traditional art, in a modern way? If so, are then a modern, or traditionalist?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Can you teach a traditional art, in a modern way? If so, are then a modern, or traditionalist?

The only tradition one should keep is the one that a system was developed in, anything else is window dressing.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I do not neccesarilly agree with his methods but from what I have read and heard about him I know that what you are saying is true.I do not see where he gives that much respect so why should he get it.? He belittles a lot of people who are less fortunate and priviledge as he has been . I know that he has worked hard to get where he is at , he makes it sound like he did it on his own with no help. I have asked questions and was attacked as well. It makes no never mind now. I am over it.

David just says the stuff out loud that many of us are THINKING. He takes the risk of sounding like an a$$hole, but many people still agree with him.

Unfortunatly, there is an extememly wide range of skill/experience levels here on this forum. We all want to be treated equally, when we are in fact - not equal. At least where it involves KF. (obviously, we're all human beings...blah blah blah)

We have people who have been training in the arts for 25+ years, getting into a martial arts history debate with someone who is spouting out some uneducated sh1t from their inexperienced mouths, which the heard from thier teacher who has been learning exclusivily from videos, movies and an occasional seminar. (that was no reference to anyone specifically, I'm just generalizing)

It urks many of us to hear the BS that comes out of some of the more inexperienced people's mouths and how they are so head strong - like they are the one's who know the real answers.

And don't get me started about how the guys who teach in parks want to judge those who own and operate schools. We don't judge you for not being fully committed to spreading your art and keeping your safe day-job, why rag on us?

Too many people still live in the martial arts fantasy movie world and dont' actually know first hand of martial art traditions.

[sanjuro_ronin]

And don't get me started about how the guys who teach in parks want to judge those who own and operate schools. We don't judge you for not being fully committed to spreading your art and keeping your safe day-job, why rag on us?

Well said.
While it may not be everyone's cup of tea, if someone can have a commercial school that reaches many people and still maintain quality of instruction, they shoudl be praised and not persecuted.
Some MA are designed for 1-on-1 instruction or small groups, hence the majority of intelligent teachers teach THOSE systems in THAT enviroment, in the case of Dave, what he teaches in "bulk" is what is designed to be taught in "bulk" and the results speak for themselves.

Biotching about someone making a decent living teaching MA because you can't is like harping about someone getting the Taco you can't get, grow up about it and move on.

[bodhitree]

getting the Taco you can't get

you ****er you have my taco:mad:

[sanjuro_ronin]

you ****er you have my taco:mad:

Dude, I am all about sharing the taco, as long as its not mine, if you catch my drift !

Speaking of which: