Babu Tanglang vs. QiXing Tanglang

[tx-mantis]

I'm sure this topic has been discussed and debated before, but I need some advice. I'm lucky enough to have both 7 star and 8 step available in my area. Could someone please explain the differences between the two styles?

Please forgive me if I'm posting a topic that has been discussed at nausea. :D

[EarthDragon]

whats better a chevy or a ford? depends on the service from the dealership after you buy the car...... the same can be answered to your question.. its the teacher and the benifiets of his kwoon to you, nothing else. Style doesnt matter.

You can have a life changing experience learning self-defense from the YMCA if that techer can convey something to you that makes you understand it correclty just depnds on what the teacher can teach you..... hope this helps, sometimes it takes people a while to understand this.....

[Three Harmonies]

What ED said. The teacher is the key. Hell, if I met a killer TKD teacher I would learn under him.
Jake :cool:

[Oso]

yea, well put ED.

[EarthDragon]

thank you jake and Oso. every so often I come up with worth while responses.. :o

[ngokfei]

He asked what are the differences
NOT
which is better.

[Three Harmonies]

And the difference is in the teacher Ngokie. I think we all answered properly. Overall very few differences. Mantis is Mantis for the most part. Martial Arts are Martial Arts.

Jake :cool:

[ngokfei]

3 Homies

Yeah, okay.:rolleyes:

[Oso]

3 Homies

Yeah, okay.:rolleyes:

good grief, man. what's with the attitude?

to a newbie, it just doesn't matter what the difference, if any, there is between two styles.

certainly any opinion he recieves from an online forum isn't necessarily going to be true or fit with what he himself wants to think about a style.

even if, say, the style of movement of 7* appealed to him more than that of 8 step if the teacher of the 7* is crap then it won't matter that he likes what he sees more.

the teachers teaching style* and ability and the vibe from the school and it's students matter far more than any style does.


*edit: to clarify: the teacher's style of teaching

[Three Harmonies]

Par for the course Oso ;)
I am in line with pretty much everything Oso stated, so no need to repeat.
Cheers
Jake :cool:

[ninjaboy]

sorry kids, i'm with ngokfei...the question isn't being addressed directly. if they were the same, they wouldn't have different names....let's say the same teacher teaches both 7star and 8step....stylistically speaking, what are the fundamental differences between 7 star and 8 step mantis?

neil

[Sifu Darkfist]

I do think the teacher is key as was discussed by my esteemed colleagues

However, i was taught that the size of the person is important if you have a Shifu that is lucky enough to know both.

For example, your newly aquired master has several different versions of NPM and you are tall and long limbed than 8 step which engages larger moves of the body and extended range larger circles or spheres of influence etc is the one for you. Seven star is much tighter and very well suited to the smaller fighter to help alleiviate the size differential in combat.

Of course everyone will disagree as normal. However, i must assert that my source is very credible.

Nonetheless, the teacher trumps all pic the best teacher, a good teacher will assess the situation from all angles.

I have myself contradicted the above size rule in order to remedy a students weakness. For example, if you have a large guy that is slower or tight from strength training, seven star really helps him gain speed do to the smaller closer hand movements and vice versa if a guy is fast with no power (and you do not have baji) than the logical help would be in the large power strikes of ba bu tang lang.

Ba bu uses "club head speed" theory in power generation and benefits with the longer club (arm, leg) seven star inserts strikes from 45 degree angles or anyplace that is open and applies most of them to soft targets and relies on propulsion based power as opposed to "club head"

[mantid1]

I think it was an acceptable question.

I agree that good fighting is good fighting....as long as the stand up..ground fighting etc...are covered.

I dont think that all martial arts teaches good fighting. So, I dont agree martial arts is martial ats or mantis is mantis.

Sifu Robert Hui taught me a good lesson a few years back. He asked me "what story does your style or particular school try to tell"? (talking about fighting)

That made me think about what I was doing with my curriculum and make some changes.

I think alot of guys just have alot of forms...drills and self defense stuff that they learned and havnt really thought it out for themselves. If they did think for themselves many of the styles that arnt good fighting styles could be.

On the other hand, thinking for yourself is great....but if basic concept is not passed down from the previous masters the styles are doomed to be reinvented every generation wht the only link to the past being the empty forms..

BJJ has its own theory and strategies...its story to tell. Even the good Tae Kwon Do instructors can tell you what their stratagy would be.

Why shouldnt there be a different methods or systemized approach to combat between seven star and 8 step?

A person who teaches three different styles should be able to give you the breakdown of how the styles are different and why they are taught. If not you are wasting your time.

A good example of telling your story would be the cck mantis 64 sau fa. They cover what the style feels needs to be covered and every sau fa has a counter...it all goes together very well to get thier fighting method across.

[Oso]

i'm sticking with my response...if either of them cover all the aspects of CMA: kicking, punching, throwing and locking...then the stylistic difference between 7* and 8 Step is irrelevent to a newbie and he should just go check them out to see which school and teacher appeal to him more. Finding a good teacher running a good school is far more important than finding a particular style...especially on the recommendation of a bunch of idiots on a net forum.

[Three Harmonies]

Ditto Oso!
I have trained with multiple teachers in the same style, and I am here to tell anyone that the teacher IS the difference. Mantis is Mantis. They are share the same principles and foundation. Too much emphasis is put on styles, and stylistic differences. Hell we have not even found out if it is HK 7 Star or Mainland 7 Star homeboy is talking about, so how can anyone comment on the differences??? Go with the teacher who works best for you.

Jake :cool:

[EarthDragon]

I thought Oso, Jake and myself had answered the post correctly. And I cant beleive for 4 days this is the only thread with responses but........

if I must, I will say.... (and this might be wrong of me ) but the person asking the question who is in my mantis family mind you contacted me privatly and thanked me for advising him to seek the best teacher..... no matter what the style or differences of that style are.

I think that this was the best advice I could give and I am glad it helped him.

[Three Harmonies]

Exactly! :cool:

[mantid1]

I would have thought that a new student would seek the best teacher....how many people do you think goes out trying to find a teachar that is bad?

Doesnt take much to figure that one out.

"So, I was watching a class and this teacher really looked terrible....I dont think he was that good. I watched another class and the teacher looked great and seemed to have a great program....which one do you think I should go with. Im really confused"?

[Three Harmonies]

You would think, but you know what they say about assuming anything! I am always blown away by how bad some teachers are, and how many students they have:eek:!! I guess they have something people want to some degree, what I can't say but......:rolleyes::confused::(
Jake :cool:

[tx-mantis]

Thanks to All my Northern Mantis family for replying. I guess I left my question open ended and should have been more specific. Regardless I think it raised many good points about the importance of the quality of teachers, schools, and the Mantis tradition whether 7star or 8step.

Thanks again each of you. I hope the answers posted in this topic are as insightful to other readers as it was to me.

:)

[Oso]

....And I cant beleive for 4 days this is the only thread with responses but........




sure you can...it was contentious so it drew response :D

[mantid1]

Why is it so strange that someone would ask the differences between two different styles?

I like it when a new student asks me the differences in my method of teaching compared to another. It means to me he/she is doing their research and may be a little more serious than the person who comes to my class because I am close.

[Oso]

well, how does a new student really qualify to judge the difference to begin with?

they can't, imho.

besides, what teacher is going to say "I suck, go learn from the other guy."?

[mantid1]

I think most students with an average intelligence should be able to make a decision on what style they would prefer to study based on observing classes and what the instuctor tells them.

The student will start making his decision the minute he/she walks into the door...is the place clean....are the students friendly....do they look neat and profressional....does the instructor look like he/she is in good shape....is the instructor friendly and offer to explain what his/her system is about and how their particular system will help them achieve the students goals.....

It seems to me people have become lazy...not stupid so they can make an educated decision.

But, I doubt they will train very hard after the first few months after they join.

[Three Harmonies]

Mantid- you do realize everything you have explained and stated has NOTHING to do with a style, and has EVERYTHING to do with the teacher, right? ;):D Just wanted to point out you were arguing against yourself.
Cheers
Jake :D

[mantid1]

I have to remind you that I did say the the teacher is very important when it comes to learning a style.....did you miss that?

My above post states some of the things that a student will be looking for when they walk in. You must have missed the part where I said the instructor should explain what their system is about and how that particular system can help them achieve their goals.

Im sorry you cant see my point.

Cheers:D:p:rolleyes::eek::cool:

[Three Harmonies]

You are an argumentative little **** aren't you?
I did not miss anything, yet you still have not described the difference in styles to homie!
Jesus, this forum has got some interesting lurkers!
Jake :cool:

[mantid1]

Well, I am probably close to your size...so if you consider yourself small then so be it. I dont consider myself ****...but since you know me so well...so be it.

I cant describe the differences in the styles "bro" because I have not had the opportunity to study them in depth. So, "homie" should go and and talk to the seven star instructor (find out if he is good) then make his decision.

This is the first time I have been called Jesus....but I think I am flattered:p

I am sorry to have an opinion different than yours...I just happen to think that a different styles could offer different things.....

Its been a slow week....so I probably wont be taken up much space on your forum next week...it has been nice checking in and seeing such quality advice being given.

Im not argumentative...just trying to share my ideas on a public forum.

Silly me.

[Three Harmonies]

Mantid
You seem awful touchy. I meant nothing by my comment, just a figure of speech. Take a pill, relax a bit. I'm not that big, only 6'4" 235. No need to be so **** serious all the time.
I do not mind a differing opinion. Fact is fact though. Teachers ARE what make the difference. I think we agree on that, no? You said yourself you do not have enough experience to tell the differences, so why are you arguing with yourself, because I am not arguing with you???? Just trying to share my ideas too bro. Lets not have the pot call the kettle black eh? No hard feelings with my words, that is all they are. Relax.


Iman-
Ha! Start off a lecture on etiquette with an indirect threat eh? Not even man enough to actually post a name eh? If you are going to threaten (indirectly or otherwise) then actually nut up and be a man about it. I am easy to find so come do your business:rolleyes:!
Never insulted anyone.
Last I checked I have a mother, I don't need some nobody from Texas telling me what I can and cannot post. Free country last I checked. If you don't like what I say, don't read it. Don't respond to it.
Thanks for reminding me of why it is a waste 99.9% of the time to post here on KFO.
Until later, STFU and HTFU!

Laters,
Jake:cool:

[Oso]

I think most students with an average intelligence should be able to make a decision on what style they would prefer to study based on observing classes and what the instuctor tells them.

maybe so, but how many are of average intelligence? ;) just kidding, mostly.

but seriously, I think there are a tremendous amount of people out there that have a big fantasy about what 'kung fu' is and therefore generally arrive at a school thinking they know what it's all about. AND, there are a tremendous amount of instructor's out there willing to provide the fantasy.

The student will start making his decision the minute he/she walks into the door...is the place clean....are the students friendly....do they look neat and profressional....does the instructor look like he/she is in good shape....is the instructor friendly and offer to explain what his/her system is about and how their particular system will help them achieve the students goals.....

sure, if they have a good head on their shoulders...but, even then, I don't think that anyone has any real idea starting out what any one style could do for them not matter how smart they are or what they see or are told.

Think about it, how much of what you know about martial arts is the same as when you started?

It takes some experience at anything to be able to truly judge it.

I'm not that big a believer in the 'body type' theory that some styles fit others better...everyone should be able to get something usefull from any style. If not, then that 'style' probably isn't that generally usefull any way.

It seems to me people have become lazy...not stupid so they can make an educated decision.

not 'stupid' just 'ignorant'...newbies are ignorant of anything martial so how can they make an 'educated' decision?

But, I doubt they will train very hard after the first few months after they join.

lol, yea, I agree...but that ties in to my 'fantasy' concept.

[jigahus]

If you truly want to know the differences you have better luck searching off Google. If you want to get a lecture on it depends on who is a better teacher...come here. :D

[Oso]

:D :D :D

puhleez...no topic ever stays on topic here

[EarthDragon]

Iman........ hey wasnt that that female models name you know david bowie's wife? anyways you make some pretty harsh comments here can you back them up?

No wonder you train. With an attitude like that there must be a long list of people that want to punch you in the mouth.

after reading your filthy PM to me this is how I feel about you. I think a punch in the mouth might be what YOU need.

All of these off topic posts patting each other on the back should never have been made.

isnt this what the ACMAF is all about? helping each other? you are a representitve if this commercialization and watering down of the martial arts. couldnt you use a pat as well?

You said one time that you agree with Haley, we all saw it; you don't need to repost it every time someone disagrees with you. We particularly don't need you insulting people that don't agree with you.

Jake and I agree on 99% of the things said on here. read what you wrote, you insulted him judge take heed to your own advice.

If you say something of value in your first post it will be enough to represent how you feel on the topic no matter how anyone else replies afterward

funny but in all you posts I dont remember YOU ever saying something of value .....only putting other people down....... and to think you paid 5,000 to get your black belt LOL I would ask for a refund before mantis mountain is built with your students money.

[Three Harmonies]

ED
So you got a flood of spam mails from mystery boy too? Not even man enough to nut up in his threats and accusations on line. :rolleyes: Like many here, a waste of time bro. We have better things to do!;):D
Cheers
Jake :cool:

[EarthDragon]

yes I did three harmonies

I did try to explian my point in private and let him know where I was comming from but he took that as a threat which was not my intention at all.

Then he said he didnt like me. LOL I never met the kid nor do I even know his first name but yet he has judged me ignorantly based on what other jealous people who left in the system said. not even his own opinon.

I just asked that he call me by my screen name or if he didnt want to do that then address me as Shifu Haley seeing as I out rank him and his teacher and he is a realitive newbie into our 8 step family.

This just shows the lack of respect comming from the new guys in our system and that I didnt appreciate the disprecpeful calling of me by my last name.

P.S he said check my old webiste to see who he was.................. the website only has the school address on it! no name, no picture, no identity.

[Three Harmonies]

Yeah he has been filling up my inbox with BS about his opinions as if I care.
Unfortunately many in your group do not have the best reputation for manners and what not. Glad you are the exception though bro.
Cheers and best during the holidays,
Jake :cool:

[EarthDragon]

He did send me a PM and apolgize for his banterings and disrepect, he based them on my negitivity towards my old federation, which is my fault for not letting go. So all is well at Chritmas time fa la la la la la la la la.

But you are correct that the federation is not what it is supposed to be after finding out the truth, but people gotta justify why they are still members and are bitter soles to themselves and each other about thier time and money wasted.

P.S Jake.......... me??? the exception to the rule.... LOL I am the guy the rules were wrote about in the first place.......:D