Liu He Men - Hei Hu Form (Black Tiger)

[Blacktiger]

Hi all

A new clip we just put up...

Master Liu De Ming is the 5th generation inheritor of the Liu He Zi Ran Men lineage. He began his study of martial arts at the age of eight with Master Hong Zheng Fu and legendary Grandmaster Wan Lai Sheng.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWyLHbjdwXQ

Enjoy :D

[David Jamieson]

looks like shaolin.

[B-Rad]

Probably because Liu He Men is a Shaolin derived system.

[Blacktiger]

Probably because Liu He Men is a Shaolin derived system.

Yep its Shaolin alright - on both counts - just out in front of the steps :D

[Royal Dragon]

Looks like Sung Dynasty Tai Tzu Chaungquan. Some of the moves are markers form the system, like the Plow hammer at 0:10.

[Blacktiger]

Cool interesting :)

[NorthernShaolin]

Very Nice.

[Seppukku]

That was awesome, but why was he moving that slow? Plus, his punches took like forever. Otherwise it was the best Shaolin I have ever seen in my entire life and thats isnot no lie.

[Blacktiger]

I think from memory that footage was taken by one of Master Liu's students on one of the many trips the school makes to Shaolin.

He was just going through some stuff and someone happened to have their camera out and got it.

:D

[David Jamieson]

the new shaolin black tiger was created recently to fill a void.

people went to shaolin as martial arts tourists and said "we want black tiger, we want black tiger" so, the void was filled. I think this is within the last 10- years.

of all the black tiger styles that i have seen and been exposed to, this one looks mostly like that which is demonstrated in the book "shantung black tiger" combined with basic taolu of contemporary shaolin.

It doesn't resemble southern stylings that float around, which are also shaolin based, but not the northern longfist kind of shaolin such as this one.

it's a good performance.

[Blacktiger]

The main thing with this form is that it is about the spirit of the tiger.... not so much trying to mimic a tigers movements as in alot of other animal forms...

Its been in the Liu He system a long time - as for its exact origins I would have to check with my Master...

[tattooedmonk]

but looks nothing like Black Tiger. This is a modern wushu stylized version of what they think Black tiger is . The beginning looks like a form I know called "Ching Kang Fu Hu Chien". A form that represents Wu Song Killing the Tiger

[Blacktiger]

Its just a name there are many types of tiger forms- this is a traditional Liu He form that has been in the system for a long time.

If it was "modern stylized wushu" it would not have any applications - it would be a dance and nothing more.

[tattooedmonk]

Its just a name there are many types of tiger forms- this is a traditional Liu He form that has been in the system for a long time.

If it was "modern stylized wushu" it would not have any applications - it would be a dance and nothing more.A long time is a very general statement. How long?? Where are the applications??

[B-Rad]

That type of opening is fairly common in northern longfist styles. I don't know the exact date of this forms creation, but Wan Lai Sheng was teaching this stuff before communist China existed :p The Black Tiger moniker is fairly common and is used within several unrelated systems. For example, here's Baji Quan's black tiger form:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ObA9OQOmKI

[tattooedmonk]

That type of opening is fairly common in northern longfist styles. I don't know the exact date of this forms creation, but Wan Lai Sheng was teaching this stuff before communist China existed :p The Black Tiger moniker is fairly common and is used within several unrelated systems. For example, here's Baji Quan's black tiger form:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ObA9OQOmKII understand . But it should have some recognizable feature of it's name sake , right??

[B-Rad]

No, not really. I don't know the cultural significance of that name, but there's quite a few northern longfist styles with forms with animal type naming with no real imitative quality of that animal. Another example is "Running Tiger Fist" from Hua Quan. Or small tiger fist (I forget if that's the name exactly) from mantis. I don't really know if it's supposed to inspire a tiger like mindset or if it's a deeper cultural/philosofical meaning that wouldn't be obvious to a westerner like me who only has an extremely superficial understanding of the language and various philosophies.

[Blacktiger]

Im not sure of the exact time it came in........... but at least round the time of Master Zhou Xin Zhou who was Wan Lai Shen's master in his early training.

Then of course he went to Du Xin Wu -so its a fair way back in any case :)

[NorthernShaolin]

I estimate the time fame around 1911 plus/minus 1 year.

[Blacktiger]

Thanks NS was waiting for you to come to the rescue :D

[r.(shaolin)]

No, not really. I don't know the cultural significance of that name, but there's quite a few northern longfist styles with forms with animal type naming with no real imitative quality of that animal. Another example is "Running Tiger Fist" from Hua Quan. Or small tiger fist (I forget if that's the name exactly) from mantis. I don't really know if it's supposed to inspire a tiger like mindset or if it's a deeper cultural/philosofical meaning that wouldn't be obvious to a westerner like me who only has an extremely superficial understanding of the language and various philosophies.

B-Rad you make a good point about the different tiger sets. Northern Shaolin 'tiger' sets associated with "wuxing' do reference the animal and some of the movements visually suggest it, however Shaolin's Black Tiger sets do not. These sets were imported into Shaolin and according to tradition, came from the Shantung region. It is likely the use of the 'Black Tiger' name has more to do with the military than with the animal. During the Ming and Qing period the 'Tiger' was a high military rank that was gained through the military examinations, but even before this, in ancient times "Tiger Guards" were a kind of elite force / imperial guard and outside the regular command structure. The term also references the famous "Tiger Warriors" who were the Imperial guard during the Western Zhou Dynasty 西周. You will note that the Western Zhou Dynasty included the Wei River region and mostly covered the territories now known as Shantung and Henan – the region where Black Tiger has its origins.

r.