merry christmas ppl, a few tips on buying the right turkey

[golden arhat]

1, DONT DO IT


http://www.goveg.com/f-hiddenlivesturkeys.asp



remember we dont need meat to live
but we still do because it tastes nice


killing something because it tastes nice ? because we enjoy it ?
isn't that like enjoying killing ?

do you enjoy killing things ?


i believe that killing something should only ever be used as a last resort

christmas is about charity and goodwill

leave the slaughter out of it, nothing should have to die so that u can enjoy yourself



(oh and for those of you who are gonna say that vegtables are living why do u kill them to eat them ? ......come on anybody can see the difference between flora and fauna)


lets get some good debate going this christmas


is it immoral to eat meat ?

woudl u eat your own pet if he was on a menu ?

[Sihing73]

Hello,

I like meat, it tastes good! Does not have to be Turkey but meat is tastey.

As to eating my pet, did that in Ranger school. Not sure if it made it taste better or not but sure did a number on a lot of minds.

[David Jamieson]

Not certain how the idea that we don't need meat came into play. Humans have pretty much always eaten meat either hunted, scavenged or farmed. vegetarianism is indicative of a settled lifestyle, agrarian. In some cases, it is a privilege to eat meat. It's the protein and sustenance that meat gives.

Anyway, even animals eat other animals. It's the order of things. Of course, if someone chooses to be a vegetarian, then that is their choice. There is no need to be judgmental about it though, it is a natural thing to do.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

You don't eat Turkey on Christmas, that is for Thanks Giving. You eat Christmas Goose on Christmas...or Duck.

[bawang]

if you don't eat meat you won't survive in a few days. what's wrong with eating meat? it taste good. bears and tigers do it, why can't i.
if you starve for a few days you will understand how lucky you are. you have so much meat you actually complain about it!
more important you need to think ,if you can't even hurt a chicken then how can you hurt another man.

[golden arhat]

Not certain how the idea that we don't need meat came into play. Humans have pretty much always eaten meat either hunted, scavenged or farmed. vegetarianism is indicative of a settled lifestyle, agrarian. In some cases, it is a privilege to eat meat. It's the protein and sustenance that meat gives.

Anyway, even animals eat other animals. It's the order of things. Of course, if someone chooses to be a vegetarian, then that is their choice. There is no need to be judgmental about it though, it is a natural thing to do.

the natural thing to do is to use the advanced mind that humans have to decide what is necessary if u dont need to kill to eat meat then u shouldnt kill to eat

a lion eats meat because it was designed to do it and doesnt have the mind to farm crops

[golden arhat]

if you don't eat meat you won't survive in a few days. what's wrong with eating meat? it taste good. bears and tigers do it, why can't i.
if you starve for a few days you will understand how lucky you are. you have so much meat you actually complain about it!
more important you need to think ,if you can't even hurt a chicken then how can you hurt another man.

ive been not eating meat for 2 years now and i'm still alive and healthy
in fact ive lost alot of weight since i did, and i'm at a much less risk of getting cancer

we have so much meat because we are advanced we are no so advanced that we dont need it only kill when u have to not because it tastes good

how right is it to force entire species into cramped and horrible lives coupled with a horrible death so that u can enjoy yourself

other animals hunt for their food becuase they have no other option


i only hurt people in defence of myself or others i'd do the same to any animal

if i had no other option i'd eat meat to survive but then once i dont need it any more because i'm not starving i'd give it up

i'm a buddhist and one of the most beleifs i hold most dear is a reverence for all sentient life


"thou shalt not kill"

[golden arhat]

You don't eat Turkey on Christmas, that is for Thanks Giving. You eat Christmas Goose on Christmas...or Duck.

eating goose is even worse they are force fed corn so that they become so fat they cant even walk and break there own necks so that u can have a tasty meal
and rich people can pay alot of money for their livers


the treatment that we give animals is below us as supposedly CIVILISED HUMANS


the jews werent treated as bad as we treat animals now
70 billion every year in just the united states !!!


thats 876 every second subject to a a life where they are just treated as a machine for making money and meat and giving birth to others so that they may be reared by machines and humans so they can be killed in a horrible fashion months later

ALL SO YOU CAN GORGE YOURSELVES ON SOMETHING U DONT NEED TO EAT TO STAY HEALTHY AND SURVIVE ON !!!



thats wrong

you know it is


unless u live somewhere where there is no option but to kill something to eat

then dont do it

[bawang]

ive been not eating meat for 2 years now and i'm still alive and healthy

in fact ive lost alot of weight since i did, and i'm at a much less risk of getting cancer "
when i drank cabbbage soup and ate rice i didn't feel so healthy.

"i only hurt people in defence of myself or others i'd do the same to any animal"
then how do you spar? i thought you did mma.

[Ben Gash]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRv0WBOwxfo

[Becca]

the natural thing to do is to use the advanced mind that humans have to decide what is necessary if u dont need to kill to eat meat then u shouldnt kill to eat

a lion eats meat because it was designed to do it and doesnt have the mind to farm crops

Been reading Aragon again? Wanting to be an elf? I'll stop getting part of my food sorce from animals just as soon as I can wave my fingers and make other types of food appear... In the words of many, many comidians, "If we aren't suposed to eat animals, then why are they made of meat?"

[Lucas]

a lion eats meat because it was designed to do it

So was I.

Thats what half my teeth were designed for in fact.

[Lucas]

Also, eating meat does not mean you have to support animal abuse.

Take my community for example.

We have many local farmers whos animals are better cared for than I am! :eek:

Up until the day of slaughter of course.

Do you use or wear any leather products at all?

your shoes perhaps?

[golden arhat]

Also, eating meat does not mean you have to support animal abuse.



We have many local farmers whos animals are better cared for than I am! :eek:


dont kid yourself u know full well most animals are treated horribly by and large


its all out there for you to watch

eating meat supports animal abuse killing is abuse simple





Do you use or wear any leather products at all?

your shoes perhaps ?

no i dont

[golden arhat]

So was I.

Thats what half my teeth were designed for in fact.

no

u have 4 teeth for that and even those are used to eat fleshy fruit like eggplant and tomato etc



why do figures show that as meat consuption rises so does the risk of bowel stomach and intestinal cancer

????

[golden arhat]

Been reading Aragon again? Wanting to be an elf? I'll stop getting part of my food sorce from animals just as soon as I can wave my fingers and make other types of food appear... In the words of many, many comidians, "If we aren't suposed to eat animals, then why are they made of meat?"

reading what ????

u can make other food appear

in fact being a vegetarian costs u less as vegetables dont need constant atention or feeding and are grown in much greater quantities so theyre cheaper


why are they made of meat?


you are made of meat can i kill and eat you if i feel like it ? i dont need to eat u as i can survive on other stuff but i think u'l taste good so can i eat you ?


your dog looks tasty can i eat him ?

what makes u or any animal worth more than another ?

[golden arhat]

when i drank cabbbage soup and ate rice i didn't feel so healthy.

"i only hurt people in defence of myself or others i'd do the same to any animal"
then how do you spar? i thought you did mma.

cabbage soup is disgusting

there are other things than that you know a vegetarian diet can be just as varied as a meat eaters



i dont hurt my opponent really badly, we are still friends and if i didnt hit him he would hit me

tahts a stupid question

its called sparring not FIGHTING or HURTING


i dont go up to my friends at my club and say"would u like me to hurt you?" i say would u like to spar ?

i dont hurt my opponents really ive never come out of my lesson feeling really bad that someone broke all by ribs and kicked my teeth out

the only time ive been properly hurt are as the result of accidents


i feel healthy i eat well and i eat a balanced diet all without killing anything

with a human brain u should be able to make the concsious decision to avoid killing other sentient beings

if u do purely because u like the taste then that is just selfish

what is more evil than that ?


would you eat a baby thats only 6 months old ? it might taste great

most animals are slaughtered at around this age never having the chance to do what would come naturally to them

never seeing the sun
never feeling anything but concrete under their feet

never meeting any of their own kind except from behind bars

never turning around once in their entire lives

going insane from the conditions


treated like a machine not an animal

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VIjanhKqVC4
http://youtube.com/watch?v=INjnXK3dslY


http://youtube.com/watch?v=5FBKeYXgm_w especially nasty this one

[bawang]

cabbage soup is disgusting

there are other things than that you know a vegetarian diet can be just as varied as a meat eaters

i had no choice, poor people don't choose to be vegetarians.
when poor people don't have meat and can only eat wild vegetables and grain, it's called starvation and malnutrition.


i feel healthy i eat well and i eat a balanced diet all without killing anything

with a human brain u should be able to make the concsious decision to avoid killing other sentient beings

if u do purely because u like the taste then that is just selfish

what is more evil than that ?

if you don't eat meat you will die. you can't live on vegetable alone.
if you live a sheltered life, always eat clean food in plastic packages then of course are afraid of blood. but you have no right to call poeple evil.

you say you know mma but now you say you dont' spar full contact. if you can't even hurt a bird, how can you hurt a man.


its called sparring not FIGHTING or HURTING
if you don't fight for real, do you have legitimacy to critisize gong fu.

[Mook Jong]

why are they made of meat?


you are made of meat can i kill and eat you if i feel like it ? i dont need to eat u as i can survive on other stuff but i think u'l taste good so can i eat you ?


your dog looks tasty can i eat him ?

what makes u or any animal worth more than another ?

Morals. thats it. Your morals say eating meat is bad, mine say prepared correctly its delicious. My morals say that cannabilism and eating dogs is wrong but there are people who will eat pretty much anything. I know people who are allergic to fruit, does that mean that eating fruit is amoral?


This is a question of personality, no one is going to get convinced of anything other than person A disagrees with the views of person B.

[Anthony]

Every living being eats something that was once alive.

Eating animals does not have to equal animal abuse or unethical treatment. Unfortunately, in reality, it usually does. An animal can live a good life and be killed humanely for food. It's just too bad that it usually doesn't happen that way. I don't mind so much that animals are eaten but I'm saddened by the abuse they endure in life.

"the natural thing to do is to use the advanced mind that humans have..."

When have humans ever done that? Do you watch the news? I'm beginning to feel we don't have advanced minds at all. Sure we can wear suits and drive to work but humans are crap.....no doubt about it. We're intelligent enough to have world peace by now but we don't. We're full of all kinds of sin.

Also, anyone who's ever used paper or has gone to the supermarket and used a plastic bag has killed animals. Trees are cut down and animals killed in the process. They also choke on the plastic bags that end up dumped in the ocean. Our industrial emissions (cars, factories) pollute and kill. There's nothing a human being can do to avoid the fact that our existence and use of natural resources is destroying the environment and killing animals at the same time.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Circle of life people.
Its not a question of what we eat, its a question of not taking more than we give.
No need to over endulge in food.

[Becca]

reading what ????

u can make other food appear

in fact being a vegetarian costs u less as vegetables dont need constant atention or feeding and are grown in much greater quantities so theyre cheaper


why are they made of meat?


you are made of meat can i kill and eat you if i feel like it ? i dont need to eat u as i can survive on other stuff but i think u'l taste good so can i eat you ?


your dog looks tasty can i eat him ?

what makes u or any animal worth more than another ?
The being made of meat was a joke. The fact that I atributed it to comedians should have made that clear... I fully respect your veiws on animals. I don't happen to share them. If you make a point of buying free range meat, you know for a fact the animals were raised as animals and not a cash crop. It costs more, but then most things of good quality do...

[golden arhat]

The being made of meat was a joke. The fact that I atributed it to comedians should have made that clear... I fully respect your veiws on animals. I don't happen to share them. If you make a point of buying free range meat, you know for a fact the animals were raised as animals and not a cash crop. It costs more, but then most things of good quality do...

so if someone takes u down to a stake house wouldu eat a stake

it isnt free range and u dont know where its from
wouldu still eat it ?

[golden arhat]

Every living being eats something that was once alive.



"the natural thing to do is to use the advanced mind that humans have..."

When have humans ever done that? Do you watch the news? I'm beginning to feel we don't have advanced minds at all. Sure we can wear suits and drive to work but humans are crap.....no doubt about it. We're intelligent enough to have world peace by now but we don't. We're full of all kinds of sin.

.

well why dont u start with yourself and work to make things right instead of chalking it up that it would never work cos humans are bad

thats the kind of mentality that puts us in the state we are in

1 person can make a huge diffference

[golden arhat]

Morals. thats it. Your morals say eating meat is bad, mine say prepared correctly its delicious. My morals say that cannabilism and eating dogs is wrong but there are people who will eat pretty much anything. I know people who are allergic to fruit, does that mean that eating fruit is amoral?


.

why is canibalism wrong ? its still flesh ? it might taste great

providing u dont eat the brain it wont make u any more healthy or unhealthy than eating any other meat

why is eating a pig okay but a dog isnt ? pigs are smarter than dogs


fruit ? what does that have to do with anything ?
they cant eat fruit and ??


my morals tell me that killing when its not absolutley essential is wrong

[golden arhat]

i had no choice, poor people don't choose to be vegetarians.
.

india is a prime example of where mopre than 4 5ths are poor
witha population of almost 1 billion

most people there are vegetarians because of moral and religious reasons there are plenty of animals they can choose to eat them if they want

but they dont
and they are poor

so u are wrong, simple



when poor people don't have meat and can only eat wild vegetables and grain, it's called starvation and malnutrition. .
read the previous example i just gave you


if you don't eat meat you will die. you can't live on vegetable alone.
.
thast the stupidest thing ive ever heard

i should be dead then ive not had meat for 2 years !

most of india (most are hindu and therefore vegetarian) should be dead

buddhist monks

all the millions of other vegetarians

why arent they dead ?

why do meat eaters have higher risk of cancer ?
.[/QUOTE]




if you don't fight for real, do you have legitimacy to critisize gong fu .

i do fight for real, i dont go out of my way to hurt people
i defend myself
ive never killed anyone
ur logic is flawed

i dont kill people when i spar,
we are all still friends

[bawang]

india is a prime example of where mopre than 4 5ths are poor
witha population of almost 1 billion

most people there are vegetarians because of moral and religious reasons there are plenty of animals they can choose to eat them if they want

but they dont
and they are poor

so u are wrong, simple

they choose to be vegetarian is BS, they can't afford meat .these people aren't healthy. a lot of them are starving and wasting away. when i had no money to buy meat i lost 20 pound in one month and i looked like a skeleton. not everybody can find rare exotic plants that can replace animal nutrients, or buy supplements.

[golden arhat]

they choose to be vegetarian is BS, they can't afford meat .these people aren't healthy. a lot of them are starving and wasting away. when i had no money to buy meat i lost 20 pound in one month and i looked like a skeleton. not everybody can find rare exotic plants that can replace animal nutrients, or buy supplements.

rare exotic plants ?

carrots ?

potatoes ?


vegetables are the easiest thigns to find

they are farmed in huge quantities

half of the wheat grown goes to cows

10 grams of wheat eaten equate to about 1 gram of meat on the cow


the entire nation of india is unhealthy ?

so are cows unhealthy ? they are vegetarian


face it people live healthy lives as vegetarians

i'm not skinny i'm 12 stone and a vegetarian and i am 6 ft tall my growth hasnt suffered


people do not die without meat
people can be healthy without meat

face it

you are wrong

[golden arhat]

they choose to be vegetarian is BS, they can't afford meat .these people aren't healthy. a lot of them are starving and wasting away. when i had no money to buy meat i lost 20 pound in one month and i looked like a skeleton. not everybody can find rare exotic plants that can replace animal nutrients, or buy supplements.

they do choose to be a vegetarian
its part of their religion

they are hindu


cows wallk on the streets and cars stop for them
anybody could simply kill one and eat one if they wanted to

[golden arhat]

they choose to be vegetarian is BS, they can't afford meat .these people aren't healthy. a lot of them are starving and wasting away. when i had no money to buy meat i lost 20 pound in one month and i looked like a skeleton. not everybody can find rare exotic plants that can replace animal nutrients, or buy supplements.

spinach has iron in it most veg are packed with vitamins
eggs
tofu
milk
nuts
beans
soya

they all have protein in them


how are they exotic or rare ?

[bawang]

spinach has iron in it most veg are packed with vitamins
eggs
tofu
milk
nuts
beans
soya

they all have protein in them


how are they exotic or rare ?

i keep trying to tell your stupid ass that i was too poor to afford those when i first came here, and i was talking from personal experience, that when i ate cheap vegetables and rice i felt like a wlaking corpse. half of what you gave is from animals anyways and the other is beans and nuts.
you're eating more than beans and nuts. you're eating lettuce and tomatoes and spinach and asparigus and all that exotic ****, which i never heard of in china, and i couldn't afford when i came here, and you can't find these in a lot of villages from poor countries. what ****es me off is i seen enough rich snobby little princcesses who get STUFFED with food, and now complain about them.
i killed lots of cute little baby chickens and i'll do it again!

[golden arhat]

i keep trying to tell your motherfukin stupid ass that i was too poor to afford those when i first came here. what ****es me off is i seen enough rich snobby little princcesses who get STUFFED with food, and now complain about them. get the fuk out of here. i killed lots of cute little baby chickens and i'll do it again!

woah calm down

i'm not rich who ever said i was ?

i think that if ur in the position to buy other things than meat (as most westerners are) then u should do that instead of killing ?

how does it feel to know thats an mma guy who doesnt even eat meat could probably beat your ass in a fight if he wanted to ?


u have acess to a computer now yes ?

how poor are you then ? that yu cant buy spinach or tofu or nuts or soya

THEY ARE ALL CHEAPER THAN MEAT

if you are so poor you should buy that not meat

and if ur rich enough to buy meat then u could save urself some money

and dissasociate yourself with mass murder

[sanjuro_ronin]

and if ur rich enough to buy meat then u could save urself some money

and dissasociate yourself with mass murder

LOL @ ALL extremists !

[golden arhat]

i keep trying to tell your motherfukin stupid ass that i was too poor to afford those when i first came here, and i was talking from personal experience, that when i ate cheap vegetables and rice i felt like a wlaking corpse. half of what you gave is from animals anyways and the other is beans and nuts.
you're eating more than beans and nuts. you're eating lettuce and tomatoes and spinach and asparigus and all that exotic ****, which i couldn't afford, and you can't find in a lot of villages from poor countries. what ****es me off is i seen enough rich snobby little princcesses who get STUFFED with food, and now complain about them.
i killed lots of cute little baby chickens and i'll do it again!

beans are just as expensive as rice

i have a bag of spincah with me now it cost me like 20 p


which is about 40 cents in american money
not sure how much that is in canadian money


but i got 300 grams of it



btw did u watch those videos ?

do you condone that ?

[golden arhat]

LOL @ ALL extremists !

whatelse would it be


the amount slaughtered in th us comes up t something like

876 innocent animals every second
70 billion every year
in just the states


how is that not mass murder ?

[sanjuro_ronin]

whatelse would it be


the amount slaughtered in th us comes up t something like

876 innocent animals every second
70 billion every year
in just the states


how is that not mass murder ?

Are plants "alive" ?

I assume that you have answer for the over population of animals that would happen if everyone became vegetarians?
And an answer for the worlds economy if the meat and poultry industries and their off-shots were eliminated?

[Lucas]

My first Sifu was raised in a buddhist monestary.

He came to the USA as a refugee at the age of 16.

He has been a vegitarian his whole life.

In the past couple of years he has had a few health issues. His doctors insisted he needed to start eating meat.

His body was not doing so well after all those years without it.

He eats seafood now, and is much better.

sometimes going against the way nature built us wont work for everyone.

go save some whales or something

[golden arhat]

Are plants "alive" ?


are u serious ?

look at an animal and a plant
u cant really compare them

when was the last time u saw a vegetable struggle with all its might to get away from the guy with the knife ?

I assume that you have answer for the over population of animals that would happen if everyone became vegetarians?
And an answer for the worlds economy if the meat and poultry industries and their off-shots were eliminated?

the animals used for food would cease to exist because we would stop breeding them

possibly we could put modern cow stock into bison or other wild animals etc and keep them wild on reservations, national parks etc

if meat and poultry industries werent there i dont care how an economy might suffer but i think it would be better than having whole sale subjugation, suffering and slaughter of entire species


would people not just put there effort into farming crops ?

we can make faux meats now anyway so i dont see why u cant just buy those

they keep tasting more realistic as technology improves

eat that ?

hell soon meat might be obsolete as i have seen scientists make a cloned steak froma petrie dish without any animal involved at all
they simply grew that specific muscle from cow DNA and cooked it just t the same

meat is becoming increasingly unecessary in the civilised world

[golden arhat]

My first Sifu was raised in a buddhist monestary.

He came to the USA as a refugee at the age of 16.

He has been a vegitarian his whole life.

In the past couple of years he has had a few health issues. His doctors insisted he needed to start eating meat.

His body was not doing so well after all those years without it.

He eats seafood now, and is much better.

sometimes going against the way nature built us wont work for everyone.

go save some whales or something

u can take supplements

i dont care how ill i got ( and its unlikley that i will because i eat a healthy balanced diet and a hell of alot of it)

i wouldnt kill something so because of a minor problem i had with myself

especcially when there are substitutes that do exactly the same thing

[golden arhat]

go save some whales or something

why dont u support their slaughter ?
or dolphins

what makes them better than a cow ?

[Lucas]

you seem to miss the concept of people taking foreign substances into their body.

many view that as worse. especially if you dont participate in western medicine.

not everyone is you man....you cannot force your way on any more than i can force you to be my betty for a night.

get it?

[golden arhat]

you seem to miss the concept of people taking foreign substances into their body.

many view that as worse. especially if you dont participate in western medicine.

not everyone is you man....you cannot force your way on any more than i can force you to be my betty for a night.

get it?

but u can force cows to be your food


why does the law prevent you killing other people ? should u be allowed to do that ?

[Lucas]

you have a problem with context dont you?

[golden arhat]

you have a problem with context dont you?

i have a problem with unnecessary killing

period

[Lucas]

thats gotta be tough for you

[Lucas]

that is to say. its always been around, and it will never go away.

[sanjuro_ronin]

are u serious ?

look at an animal and a plant
u cant really compare them

when was the last time u saw a vegetable struggle with all its might to get away from the guy with the knife ?

Is that your definition of Alive?


If meat and poultry industries werent there i dont care how an economy might suffer but i think it would be better than having whole sale subjugation, suffering and slaughter of entire species

By the same " I don't care" viewpoint, people don't care about yours.

[Becca]

so if someone takes u down to a stake house wouldu eat a stake

it isnt free range and u dont know where its from
wouldu still eat it ?
.... cattle are generally free range around here. If you get what we call rancher's reserve certified beef, it will have been raised in the U.S. And U.S. cattle are, indead, free range. The most time they spend in a pen is a few weeks at a feed lot to help them recover from the round-up and transportation.

I can see your point, really I can. But the problems you have in England getting that type of garanteed humaly raised meat just isn't a problem for us here in North America; you just have to take the time to make sure the product was certified by a watch-dog organization.

Face it, you are doing what most teenagers do: you are convinced your way is right and every other way is wrong. Your way is right for you. We respect them. Stop disrespecting us for not sharing your veiws, please...

[golden arhat]

that is to say. its always been around, and it will never go away.

thats the attitude which keeps it in place

[golden arhat]

.... cattle are generally free range around here. If you get what we call rancher's reserve certified beef, it will have been raised in the U.S. And U.S. cattle are, indead, free range. The most time they spend in a pen is a few weeks at a feed lot to help them recover from the round-up and transportation.

I can see your point, really I can. But the problems you have in England getting that type of garanteed humaly raised meat just isn't a problem for us here in North America; you just have to take the time to make sure the product was certified by a watch-dog organization.

Face it, you are doing what most teenagers do: you are convinced your way is right and every other way is wrong. Your way is right for you. We respect them. Stop disrespecting us for not sharing your veiws, please...

i suppose killing really is humane

what could be more human than murder ?

i want nothing to do with anything like that

[golden arhat]

Is that your definition of Alive?.

come on now u know when u look at a cow that it is very different from a plant

a plant isnt sentient



By the same " I don't care" viewpoint, people don't care about yours.

an economy really doesnt matter when compared with a life

[golden arhat]

thats gotta be tough for you

it is

especially when i have to watch it go on all the time

[Becca]

whatelse would it be


the amount slaughtered in th us comes up t something like

876 innocent animals every second
70 billion every year
in just the states


how is that not mass murder ?

How come, when pointing out just how bad you think killing animals is, you never use states for your own country? Would that tarnish you some how to aknowledge that your people eat animals too? You are going from someone with ideals to a moronic child who's never had to figure out how to feed himself for a week off $5....

[golden arhat]

How come, when pointing out just how bad you think killing animals is, you never use states for your own country? Would that tarnish you some how to aknowledge that your people eat animals too? You are going from someone with ideals to a moronic child who's never had to figure out how to feed himself for a week off $5....

i dont have the figures for my country is all

i assume they are similar

[sanjuro_ronin]

come on now u know when u look at a cow that it is very different from a plant

a plant isnt sentient



an economy really doesnt matter when compared with a life

Plant may not be sentient, but you need them more than you need cows ;)

You are entittled to your views and to express them, as we all are, but the simple fact that you don't care about the consequences of your views, shows that you don't understand what that means and that, by not caring about other peoples views no one will care about yours.

[Mook Jong]

why is canibalism wrong ? its still flesh ? it might taste great

providing u dont eat the brain it wont make u any more healthy or unhealthy than eating any other meat

why is eating a pig okay but a dog isnt ? pigs are smarter than dogs


fruit ? what does that have to do with anything ?
they cant eat fruit and ??


my morals tell me that killing when its not absolutley essential is wrong

Did you actually read my post? It's all someone's morals, the way they were raised. To me, dogs have always been pets and pigs are food. It's how i was brought up. To others it might be totally opposite. But if your so against animal cruelty, why aren't you vegan? I don't know about in the UK but i know in the US that milk cows are hooked up to machines all day. Do you swat flies or mosquitos? If so, then you have very selective use of ahimsa.

[golden arhat]

Did you actually read my post? It's all someone's morals, the way they were raised. To me, dogs have always been pets and pigs are food. It's how i was brought up. To others it might be totally opposite. But if your so against animal cruelty, why aren't you vegan? I don't know about in the UK but i know in the US that milk cows are hooked up to machines all day. Do you swat flies or mosquitos? If so, then you have very selective use of ahimsa.

i am in the process of going vegan

i started buy not eating mammals then steping it up to include all animals
its a gradual thing i'm building it up

i dont swat flies no


if its ur upbringing and u know that it makes no sense

why arent u a vegetarian u know it makes no sense so now u can work against how u were brought up


saying its just the way u were brought up is no excuse really

[Mook Jong]

No it's not but i don't feel the need to change. There are no two ways about it, i like to eat meat. Props to you though for going vegan, I can honestly say i know i wouldn't have the will to give up cheese and meat.


The only point i am trying to make is that although you may feel strongly against eating animals, there are many people who don't. Your indignation is not going to alter people's views on it. Sorry.

[Mano Mano]

Just like animals, plants do not wish to be eaten. In nature wild plants have developed many defences to stop animals from eating them from toxins & basic strategies such as thorns. The fruits & vegetables we eat today have been made safe by & are a by-product of centuries of farming & selection to make them safe for consumption. So even if plants are not sentient, in their natural surroundings plants do what they must to avoid being eaten for lunch.

[monji112000]

i am in the process of going vegan

i started buy not eating mammals then steping it up to include all animals
its a gradual thing i'm building it up

i dont swat flies no


if its ur upbringing and u know that it makes no sense

why arent u a vegetarian u know it makes no sense so now u can work against how u were brought up


saying its just the way u were brought up is no excuse really
Is it me but does the fact that someone who trains to hurt people, has a problem killing an animal? Whats the big deal? If you do it in a respectful way I really don't see the problem. Maybe I'm just slow. Anyway I don't know how sentient some animals are... ever worked on a farm? turkeys are like the dumbest animals around. Everyone knows how dumb sheep are too. If you are going to measure if something deserves to live or die what about humans with mental disorders? Someone who's a vegetable? What about capital punishment? What about road kill?

[golden arhat]

Just like animals, plants do not wish to be eaten. In nature wild plants have developed many defences to stop animals from eating them from toxins & basic strategies such as thorns. The fruits & vegetables we eat today have been made safe by & are a by-product of centuries of farming & selection to make them safe for consumption. So even if plants are not sentient, in their natural surroundings plants do what they must to avoid being eaten for lunch.

well we need to eat something

i'd prefer that it wasnt like me, made of flesh, and encompassed by sheer terror as it dies, and suffering immensly while it lives, and imprisoned, never treated as an animal, simply to please my taste buds,

that really isnt very good for me anyway by an large

[Lucas]

A lot of us really do understand.

My GF is a vegi. Hell, the city I live in probably has more vegitarians than most any other city in the U.S.

Some of us just feel differently.

[Lucas]

do a google search on the local farmers in my area. Oregon, USA

The northwest USA is a large agricultural area, as well as animal farms. We DO have many farmers here, and in the USA by and large, that DO treat their animals well.

MANY. do some research on local farmers in the usa.

Many of these farmers, feel the same way you do about the treatment of their animals. They just dont believe in NOT eating them.

But, if you do your research you will find a plethora of local and organic farmers in my area.

Check out our Local Farmers Markets, and the like.

Maybe the UK just doesnt have good farms at all.

[golden arhat]

do a google search on the local farmers in my area. Oregon, USA

The northwest USA is a large agricultural area, as well as animal farms. We DO have many farmers here, and in the USA by and large, that DO treat their animals well.

MANY. do some research on local farmers in the usa.

Many of these farmers, feel the same way you do about the treatment of their animals. They just dont believe in NOT eating them.

But, if you do your research you will find a plethora of local and organic farmers in my area.

Check out our Local Farmers Markets, and the like.

Maybe the UK just doesnt have good farms at all.


some farms have better standards

but think about the meat that goes into the average whoppeerr or happy meal

or the bacon u just go to the super market for

or the stuff u havent bought urself but buy as a meal in a restaurant

most businesses go out of there way to cut down on expenses
that means that the animals suffer in the usual death camp style farms

have u seen how kfc treats its chickens ?
look it up on youtube

i mean does it nor get to you that they have a machine specifically designed to slit chickens throats ?

for all my talk of not killing unnessesarily
seeing how animals are treated just makes me want to kill the people doing it

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I don't see what the big deal is about killing for food. The Animals are all going to die sooner or later anyway... we are just changing the timming.

Besides, if we don't kill them and eat them,then death will kill them and some scavenger will eat them instead...either way, they die and get eaten, might as well be by me than some mangy wild scavenger.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

i mean does it nor get to you that they have a machine specifically designed to slit chickens throats ?

Reply]
I think it's better that way, when I have done it (on Turkeys), it allways ruins my cloths because I get blood on them. I am all for automatic feather plucking machines too. Having to do that by hand sux. The machine is fast and clean. I could do like 20 in the time it takes me to do one by hand.

[sanjuro_ronin]

seeing how animals are treated just makes me want to kill the people doing it

Being militant will get you nowhere.

[golden arhat]

I don't see what the big deal is about killing for food. The Animals are all going to die sooner or later anyway... we are just changing the timming.

Besides, if we don't kill them and eat them,then death will kill them and some scavenger will eat them instead...either way, they die and get eaten, might as well be by me than some mangy wild scavenger.

if we didnt breed them to die they wouldnt be there in the first place we have created the problem

wild animals die and eat each other
we should let them do it between themselves
they arent human

however we are human and we have the capacity to think things through
and not breed them in the first place

nothing should have to die so that u may eat it when u dont need to

[golden arhat]

Being militant will get you nowhere.

try telling that to george washington in the american revolution

or lenin

etc

[sanjuro_ronin]

try telling that to george washington in the american revolution

or lenin

etc

ROTFLMAO !!

Now, that was a good one !

[Lucas]

some farms have better standards

but think about the meat that goes into the average whoppeerr or happy meal

or the bacon u just go to the super market for

or the stuff u havent bought urself but buy as a meal in a restaurant

most businesses go out of there way to cut down on expenses
that means that the animals suffer in the usual death camp style farms

have u seen how kfc treats its chickens ?
look it up on youtube

i mean does it nor get to you that they have a machine specifically designed to slit chickens throats ?

for all my talk of not killing unnessesarily
seeing how animals are treated just makes me want to kill the people doing it

Well, see, now you are talking fast food.

Now ask us how many of us eat that sh!t...

big difference between going to the market getting a nice cut of meat, cooking it yourself, vs going to mcdonalds and eating some of their "Grade A Choice"

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

seeing how animals are treated just makes me want to kill the people doing it

Reply]
so Killing people for no good reason is Ok?, but Killing Animals for food is bad? I am confused, I thought your stance was that Killing period is bad.

if we didnt breed them to die they wouldnt be there in the first place we have created the problem

Reply]
Really? So ur saying Chicken and Cows are not Narturally evolved animals and we created them ourselves for food? I allways thought they naturally evolved and were part of the planet just like any other animal...which would mean they will be here and be getting eaten by other animals anyway.


nothing should have to die so that u may eat it when u dont need to

Reply]
Ok that makes sense. Right now my tummy is telling me I really *Need* to sear some ground up Cow...so I'm off to the grilll!! :D

[monji112000]

some farms have better standards

but think about the meat that goes into the average whoppeerr or happy meal

or the bacon u just go to the super market for

or the stuff u havent bought urself but buy as a meal in a restaurant

most businesses go out of there way to cut down on expenses
that means that the animals suffer in the usual death camp style farms

have u seen how kfc treats its chickens ?
look it up on youtube

i mean does it nor get to you that they have a machine specifically designed to slit chickens throats ?

for all my talk of not killing unnessesarily
seeing how animals are treated just makes me want to kill the people doing it
Well in the current climate anyone can be vegan or vegetarian and probably still stay healthy. (depends on who you ask but probably). I can't see the moral problem with killing a animal, but then again I don't see the moral problem with killing anything (it all depends on the situation). I grew up around stoires of going to the meat market and picking out the chicken you want for dinner. Then after the butcher kills it, you take it home, salt it ect.. Heck kids sometimes played with the chickens. People used to get live fish and keep them in their bathtubs. death and life are all part of one process.. sure it would be nice to not "harm" the animal too much but hey thats life. You can't honestly tell me that nice veal isn't good? Buffalo is probably the best beef you can eat.. its great. What about dog? its really not that bad! I haven't had cat... I still have some time. :D
So what do you think about all the bugs you kill (murder) when you farm? What about all the natural habitats? Are bugs not as important as a cow? tell that to the kid with a pet roach. What about clams... bugs seem much smarter than clams.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Clams make pearls....lets see a bug smart enough to do THAT!!! :p

[monji112000]

nothing should have to die so that u may eat it when u dont need to

something must always die, bugs, wild life habitats ect.. ect.. You think if we turn the whole world into farms animals would be happier?

[monji112000]

if we didnt breed them to die they wouldnt be there in the first place we have created the problem

wild animals die and eat each other
we should let them do it between themselves
they arent human

however we are human and we have the capacity to think things through
and not breed them in the first place

nothing should have to die so that u may eat it when u dont need to


Clams make pearls....lets see a bug smart enough to do THAT!!! :p
silk... lets see a clam make silk.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I know quite a few silky clams :D

[golden arhat]

seeing how animals are treated just makes me want to kill the people doing it

Reply]
so Killing people for no good reason is Ok?, but Killing Animals for food is bad? I am confused, I thought your stance was that Killing period is bad.


Reply]
Really? So ur saying Chicken and Cows are not Narturally evolved animals and we created them ourselves for food? I allways thought they naturally evolved and were part of the planet just like any other animal...which would mean they will be here and be getting eaten by other animals anyway.

Ok that makes sense. Right now my tummy is telling me I really *Need* to sear some ground up Cow...so I'm off to the grilll!! :D


no they arent we bred them for the purpose of eating u think a buffalo in th wild would have tits that size in the wild with that much muscle on it ?

killing people in defence of animals seems to make complete sense not that i think i would
but "for no good reason" certainly makes no sense here they are murderers

u need to tear up some cow ?

sure well its that kind of selfish attitude which is whats wrong with people

[sanjuro_ronin]

Actually, that closed minded " I am right everyone else is wrong" mentality is what is wrong with people.

[golden arhat]

Actually, that closed minded " I am right everyone else is wrong" mentality is what is wrong with people.

but u havent said why i am wrong ?

is it right to kill when u have no need to ? yes or no ?

in the civilised world we can choose not to eat meat
and live healthily
for less money

so if u dont need to kill why do you ? because it tastes good ?

is that right ?

[monji112000]

Actually, that closed minded " I am right everyone else is wrong" mentality is what is wrong with people.
vegetarians are cool, I never had a problem with them. I have even gone long periods of time without meet.. its no big deal. Some of my best friends are Bramen hindu's so when we eat its all vegy. Indian's have the best vegetarian around. I love the new vegy meat replacement products, they taste great. BUT, I still love the taste of a nice Stew (with chunks of MEAT). :D Allot of the people who say they don't eat meat.. still sneak some meat now and again.
If you really into the no killing stuff, you've got to follow the jains. From what I understand they sweep in front of their feet to make sure no bugs (large) die.

[sanjuro_ronin]

but u havent said why i am wrong ?

is it right to kill when u have no need to ? yes or no ?

in the civilised world we can choose not to eat meat
and live healthily
for less money

so if u dont need to kill why do you ? because it tastes good ?

is that right ?

There is a circle of life, you understand that right?
You have issues with people eating meat or people killing animals?
I assume only animals since you have no issues about killing plants.

[monji112000]

but u havent said why i am wrong ?

is it right to kill when u have no need to ? yes or no ?

in the civilised world we can choose not to eat meat
and live healthily
for less money

so if u dont need to kill why do you ? because it tastes good ?

is that right ?
you kill to farm. Killing is a must, you can't avoid it.

[sanjuro_ronin]

vegetarians are cool, I never had a problem with them. I have even gone long periods of time without meet.. its no big deal. Some of my best friends are Bramen hindu's so when we eat its all vegy. Indian's have the best vegetarian around. I love the new vegy meat replacement products, they taste great. BUT, I still love the taste of a nice Stew (with chunks of MEAT). :D Allot of the people who say they don't eat meat.. still sneak some meat now and again.
If you really into the no killing stuff, you've got to follow the jains. From what I understand they sweep in front of their feet to make sure no bugs (large) die.

Agreed, militant vegetarians are another thing altogether.
Don't recall us carnivores going around try to force people to eat steak.
Fact is, we can eat both and nothing wrong with that. unless you have issues with killing animals, in that case, don't.

[monji112000]

Agreed, militant vegetarians are another thing altogether.
Don't recall us carnivores going around try to force people to eat steak.
Fact is, we can eat both and nothing wrong with that. unless you have issues with killing animals, in that case, don't.
you never grew up with PETA being in your home town. The crazy thing is allot of people would help, respect, and even work with them... but they can't they are just crazy. Most people are into treating animals better, but nobody will listen to you when you say " a Happy meal is = to the what the Nazi's did". I wish they would take a more realistic stance, they could change allot of things if they did.

[sanjuro_ronin]

you never grew up with PETA being in your home town. The crazy thing is allot of people would help, respect, and even work with them... but they can't they are just crazy. Most people are into treating animals better, but nobody will listen to you when you say " a Happy meal is = to the what the Nazi's did". I wish they would take a more realistic stance, they could change allot of things if they did.

There is a reason they are called extremists.

[golden arhat]

you never grew up with PETA being in your home town. The crazy thing is allot of people would help, respect, and even work with them... but they can't they are just crazy. Most people are into treating animals better, but nobody will listen to you when you say " a Happy meal is = to the what the Nazi's did". I wish they would take a more realistic stance, they could change allot of things if they did.

well how is a happy meal different to what the nazi's did ? other than they didnt eat the jews ?


in fact most factory farms are worse than a nazi death camp lol

[golden arhat]

There is a reason they are called extremists.

what people do to animals is whats extreme

telling people how it is is just the right thing to do

[sanjuro_ronin]

well how is a happy meal different to what the nazi's did ? other than they didnt eat the jews ?


in fact most factory farms are worse than a nazi death camp lol

I think you just insulted all the Jews that died at the hands of the Nazis.

[golden arhat]

I think you just insulted all the Jews that died at the hands of the Nazis.

so what ?


u still havent said how its different


animals are treated worse than the jews were

thats the truth


whast insulting about that ?

[sanjuro_ronin]

so what ?


u still havent said how its different


animals are treated worse than the jews were

thats the truth


whast insulting about that ?

You know what, if you have to ask I can only assume you are young and don't understand or too closed minded to understand or you got issues, either way, not my concern.

Do and think what you like.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Has anyone ever seen any concrete proof that there actually *IS* meat in a McDonald's Happy meal? :confused:

[sanjuro_ronin]

Has anyone ever seen any concrete proof that there actually *IS* meat in a McDonald's Happy meal? :confused:

Does it matter?

[Mano Mano]

well we need to eat something

i'd prefer that it wasnt like me, made of flesh, and encompassed by sheer terror as it dies, and suffering immensly while it lives, and imprisoned, never treated as an animal, simply to please my taste buds,

that really isnt very good for me anyway by an large

Everything man has farmed through out the thousand of years man has practised agriculture whether of animal or vegetable has been taken from it natural state & farmed & reared to a please our taste buds.
It was mentioned earlier in the thread about Buddhist & Hindu’s not eating meat for moral issues, for some yes & for some who live in such societies it’s out of fear. The fear is not to do with morality it is more to do with the fact that they’ve been told that if they kill & eat another living creature they are dammed to be reincarnated a lesser or dirty creature an insect, or a dog as such.

[Becca]

try telling that to george washington in the american revolution

or lenin

etcOr King George, who started the American Revolution in motion by trying to force the colinists to pay for his wars with unresprisented taxation...:rolleyes:

That coin is not a coin that has 2 sides. It is a sphere that encompases all of the world - past, present, and future. Lenin had good ideals even if those who followed didn't. Blaming him for Glasnost is childish. Excusing your self destructive urge to kill others for darring to raise, prepare, provide and eat food you yourself wouldn't touch is also childish. This thread has gone on long enough...

[Lucas]

animals treated worse than the jews.

thats a pretty scewed sense of things.

do you even know all that was done to those people during that war?

When is the last time you gang raped a cow?

[doug maverick]

ah meat i love it. love to eat it, call me a conspirator in the murder of game. beef, chicken, lamb and the oh so dreaded pork the other white meat. they can all get in my belly. you don't like meat goldy thats fine. but don;t try to shove your vegetable killing beliefs on me. plants are alive too and guess what when you cook them they are still alive. when you eat them raw guess what they are alive. so go ahead enjoy your defenseless vegetables(i know i do).

[Mook Jong]

animals treated worse than the jews.

thats a pretty scewed sense of things.

do you even know all that was done to those people during that war?

When is the last time you gang raped a cow?

Raising and caring for cattle with the intent of eating them is totally the same as trying to exterminate an entire race of people :rolleyes:

[BlueTravesty]

Not too keep this malarkey going too much further, but here's a thought.

When we humans get really good at genetic manipulation, cloning, splicing, all that fancy stuff, perhaps we'll figure out how to make meat without making an animal to produce it. Kind of like just growing it in large vats. You'd have a vat of cloned tissue, with no sentient life to kill for it. Not only that, but you'd have cloned an extremely efficient source of protein and B-vitamins (Very very very rarely found in plant matter.)

I'm sure the really militant vegans will still have a problem with it, of course "It's not natural!" (neither is building a house, but I don't see too many rain-soaked, lightning-struck vegans.) "I only eat organic!" (as opposed to what, silicon-based food??)

But for the sensible vegitarians, it may prove to be a solution. Kind of like taking stem cells from harvested eggs or umbilical cords instead of wasting time forcing useless debates about abortion on people.

[doug maverick]

Raising and caring for cattle with the intent of eating them is totally the same as trying to exterminate an entire race of people :rolleyes:

then call me a terminator cause there is no way i'm gonna compare an animal to a human. nope no way no how mine as well throw plants in their too buddy.

[BlueTravesty]

then call me a terminator cause there is no way i'm gonna compare an animal to a human. nope no way no how mine as well throw plants in their too buddy.

Naw, plants aren't as cute, they're not fuzzy/feathery, and they don't have eyes so it's easier to justify. Of course, there's no scientific proof that they can't feel pain, just that we're darn sure they don't, due to lack of a central nervous system. Ooh, wait, unless it's a tree. THEN it's a living thing that deserves respect, by virtue of the fact that its tall growth choked sunlight from shorter plants and killed them. Life is beautiful.

[monji112000]

well how is a happy meal different to what the nazi's did ? other than they didn't eat the jews ?

in fact most factory farms are worse than a nazi death camp lol
I think a large amount of your opinion has to do with your age. You are more than welcome to believe that animals are equal to humans, I'm sure your sex life is really interesting. I'm sure you could find at least one case of Nazi cannibalism. Humans and animals are not the same. Anyway I find it funny that your thread about "turkeys" I assume was in relation to thanksgiving (although it seems late) had nothing about the real problem with celebrating thanksgiving. The tragedy that happened with the HUMANS us Americans call native Americans.

I will again ask you how on G-d's green earth is is possible to feed everyone through farming, and have you really though about the ecological impact it would create. All the animals you would kill. Go back to listening to your Emo CDs, get back to me when you graduate college.

every vegetarian (vegan)I have met has had meat from time to time. Its just not practical.

[Mook Jong]

I just figured out why he decided to start all this sh!t up. He's straightedge and has nothing better to do with his time. (For those of you that don't speak teenager, straigtedge means that the person refuses to drink or smoke anything and will not engage in promiscuous sex. One usually identifies oneself with an X on the back of each hand)

[Anthony]

When it comes to not eating animals there are so many interpretations and ideas of which living things should be eaten and which should not. It's hard to be on the same page with anyone you discuss this with. I believe that any human suffering throughout history has no place in this discussion nor does a comparrison of human life to animals - it's just not the point and it serves no purpose.

All of nature (animals, plants, etc.) rerepresents resources for humans. We cannot exist and prosper without clearing forests for housing developments, using trees for furniture, paper, etc. We cannot exist without polluting or pretty much destroying nature. The theme of so many nature documentaries is that humans are the main enemy. Whether it's the barrier reef, the rainforest, or a population of wild wolves. The enemy is us.

That being said, animals represent another resource for us. Food, fur, etc. My personal problem is not that animals are used for such things. I personally disagree with skinning an animal alive, or in other words senselessly torturing it if it's going to be used for food or fur.

As humans I don't think it's too much to ask that we respect the life of an animal who's death will provide us with some such benefit. After all, we do (I think) have the capacity for empathy. How hard is it to kill it before skinning it? Or to live without entertainment such as bullfights or dog fights etc.

I know I'm being idealistic and it's not a perfect world. But, my wish would be that we provide animals with an ethical existence and kill them humanely/quickly. Not to mention that we try to preserve and protect the natural world (so that wild animals don't disappear). Also, lets be a little respectfull toward each other on this forum. I mean lets respect each others different opinion. If someone is sensitive to eating animals, I don't think it serves any purpose to respond with something insensitive like "I can't wait to eat a delicious burger!!!" as funny as you may think that is.

[Mook Jong]

Has anyone ever seen any concrete proof that there actually *IS* meat in a McDonald's Happy meal? :confused:

There was a time that because the fries were cooked in beef stock, there was more meat in the fries than the burgers. They failed to tell the people of India this, who got very p!ssed off. Go figure that

[Black Jack II]

There is plenty of room for all of gods creatures. Right next to the mash potatoes.:D

What golden arahat is putting out is not the standard vegetarian based diatribe but a radical PETA sickness, and yes I 110% believe PETA and those that follow this nonsense have some sort of mental illness. From a plain old physical standpoint, a veg diet is very often the cause of deficincies in b12, iron, methionine and Vitamin D. Any diet that you have to take supplements to support is very absurd.

This btw is a perfect example of what I mean by a mental illness:


well how is a happy meal different to what the nazi's did ? other than they didn't eat the jews ?

Some people here know that I hunt, mostly game birds as that is what I enjoy, but I have also taken a crack at venison and a few other varmints on occasion. I love the taste of meat, fresh from the field or from whole foods or from the deli, its all good and supports life on this planet as we know it.

[monji112000]

I though this would be relevant. ever heard of growing meat?

http://www.tca.uwa.edu.au/index.html

http://www.we-make-money-not-art.com/archives/008722.php

still think getting the meat from killing isn't a issue though.
I love the little leather suit they are growing.

[golden arhat]

animals treated worse than the jews.

thats a pretty scewed sense of things.

do you even know all that was done to those people during that war?

When is the last time you gang raped a cow?

6 million jews

1939- 1945



70 billion animals (USA alone)
-2006



the holocaust was bad but to honbestly say its as bad as what we currently do today to hundreds of species every year is just a fallacy

[golden arhat]

I just figured out why he decided to start all this sh!t up. He's straightedge and has nothing better to do with his time. (For those of you that don't speak teenager, straigtedge means that the person refuses to drink or smoke anything and will not engage in promiscuous sex. One usually identifies oneself with an X on the back of each hand)


my beliefs about smoking drinking and promiscuous sex have nothign to do with this

i do alot with my time
i dont spend it doing the above

i never see why alot of people always have a problem with me being sober

[golden arhat]

Raising and caring for cattle with the intent of eating them is totally the same as trying to exterminate an entire race of people :rolleyes:

its worse

because we raise an entire species of animals then exterminate them only to have more

its an ongoing cycle

[golden arhat]

When we humans get really good at genetic manipulation, cloning, splicing, all that fancy stuff, perhaps we'll figure out how to make meat without making an animal to produce it. Kind of like just growing it in large vats. You'd have a vat of cloned tissue, with no sentient life to kill for it. Not only that, but you'd have cloned an extremely efficient source of protein and B-vitamins (Very very very rarely found in plant matter.)





i am tottally in support of this

in fact we have already made cloned meat before
it doesnt taste of anything much (lack of bacteria in the meat etc)
butwe are getting good at it

i'd eat it

[Anthony]

"There is plenty of room for all of gods creatures. Right next to the mash potatoes."

Don't think that comment will lead to any productive discussion. But, it's an example of how extremism on one side usually leads to extremism on the other and hate.

Golden Arhat, that's the kind of response that your extremism will get you. Dont' know how making enemies and pis.sing people off will help your cause. Drop the whole Nazi comparrison thing-it doesn't work. Concentrate on the ethical treatment and killing of animals as a step toward your goal.

Black Jack, I'm not against hunting. Animals hunt, we hunt....seems natural to me. The animal dies quickly. I live in a suburb of NYC so I have to get my meat at a supermarket. I'd honestly rather live more in balance with nature and hunt and grow all of my food. But, it's impossible.

I'm sure as a hunter you love nature. Same as I do. I donate regularly to the WWF (no not the World Wrestling Federation) the World Wildlife Fund. And some other similar organizations that concentrate on preservation of the environment. A loosing cause I know.

As someone who has pets and as anyone who has pets knows, there's more to animals than meets the eye. They can surprise you with their emotions and intelligence, loyalty, etc.

At the same time, lets not overestimate the quality of the human creature. Our behavior throughout history does not exactly match our potential for morality and intelligence.

[WinterPalm]

It's a war of us against the planet.

[BlueTravesty]

i am tottally in support of this

in fact we have already made cloned meat before
it doesnt taste of anything much (lack of bacteria in the meat etc)
butwe are getting good at it

i'd eat it

Let's hope they work the whole bacteria thing out. Otherwise, one might as well eat tofu, which I avoid unless it has the words "Ma Bo" in front of it. Plus the technology would probably make the process more efficient and cost-effective once perfected.

[Mook Jong]

its worse

because we raise an entire species of animals then exterminate them only to have more

its an ongoing cycle

Seriously, you just said that? the difference is there is no cow culture. if you take a cow from the American midwest and put it in India, the cow will not suddenly moo differently or create a new art form. The Jewish people, however, have culture and contribute to the world and without them, this would be a very different world. And if nothing else, it's different because it's our species. It's alot easier to kill something you know is vastly different from you. You have to be really phucked up to try and exterminate an entire culture of people who, for all purposes, are just like you.

[golden arhat]

Seriously, you just said that? the difference is there is no cow culture. if you take a cow from the American midwest and put it in India, the cow will not suddenly moo differently or create a new art form. The Jewish people, however, have culture and contribute to the world and without them, this would be a very different world. And if nothing else, it's different because it's our species. It's alot easier to kill something you know is vastly different from you. You have to be really phucked up to try and exterminate an entire culture of people who, for all purposes, are just like you.


well humans seem to be the most evil things about
look at the jews

they almost get exterminated
get their own country and start being racist to others in palestine

i'd rather 6 million humans die that an infinite amount of animals die

they feel fear
they feel pain
they have equal worth as far as i'm concerned


flame all you want people

i dont see humans as "better" than animals

[Anthony]

"i dont see humans as "better" than animals"

Just for the record....neither do I. In fact, we're worse.

[golden arhat]

we can think

that makes us better because ?


a bird can fly

can you ?

does that make it better ?

[Mook Jong]

I'm not agreeing with you on this, I'm just not going to post on this anymore but can you understand why people are so up in arms over you comparing animals to what people suffered in the holocaust?

[monji112000]

well humans seem to be the most evil things about
look at the jews
they almost get exterminated
get their own country and start being racist to others in palestine ...
i dont see humans as "better" than animals
yah :rolleyes: ok why not graduate high school and start learning about what really goes on in the world before you make such strong views.If Israel is racist to the "Palestinians" (which as by definition includes all of Israel), then I would personally love to be discriminated. I have a college bill that needs being payed for.. I had thousands of dollars for of medical bills... let me know when someone wants to discriminate on me. wait you didn't know about the free medical care (one of the best in the world becouse of its network with Europe) or the free education? Go look up what the word Palestinian means, were it comes from , and the history of the middle east. It may take some time to read all the information...
YAH:rolleyes:
lets compare something else like the Arminian holocaust or any other of the so many holocausts that have happened. Still waiting on the animal sex answer, if animals are so equal why not marry one? Does that go against the "straight edge" rule book?
grow some balls, eat meat.. then maybe one day you will get laid.

[golden arhat]

yah :rolleyes: ok why not graduate high school and start learning about what really goes on in the world before you make such strong views.If Israel is racist to the "Palestinians" (which as by definition includes all of Israel), then I would personally love to be discriminated. I have a college bill that needs being payed for.. I had thousands of dollars for of medical bills... let me know when someone wants to discriminate on me. wait you didn't know about the free medical care (one of the best in the world becouse of its network with Europe) or the free education? Go look up what the word Palestinian means, were it comes from , and the history of the middle east. It may take some time to read all the information...
YAH:rolleyes:
lets compare something else like the Arminian holocaust or any other of the so many holocausts that have happened. Still waiting on the animal sex answer, if animals are so equal why not marry one? Does that go against the "straight edge" rule book?
grow some balls, eat meat.. then maybe one day you will get laid.

dude i'm just using it as an example of how people regardless of what happens to them treat each other like sh!t regardless of how they themselves get treated


who says i havent already had sex ?

dont try to be condescending "why not marry one?" its not my species *******

i'm just saying that humans dont have more of a right to live than anything else

[monji112000]

dude i'm just using it as an example of how people regardless of what happens to them treat each other like sh!t regardless of how they themselves get treated


who says i havent already had sex ?

dont try to be condescending "why not marry one?" its not my species *******

i'm just saying that humans dont have more of a right to live than anything else

aren't you "straight edge". Last time I checked that means no punani.

[golden arhat]

aren't you "straight edge". Last time I checked that means no punani.

it means no promiscuous sex
along with no drinking alcohol
no doing drugs
no smoking

e.g no one night stands, no sex outside of a relationship

i havent been straight edge forever ive done things before

and how do you know weither or not i have a girlfriend ?

i see plenty of girls i just dont screw them unless theyre my girlfriend



get your facts straight

[monji112000]

it means no promiscuous sex
along with no drinking alcohol
no doing drugs
no smoking

e.g no one night stands, no sex outside of a relationship

i havent been straight edge forever ive done things before

and how do you know weither or not i have a girlfriend ?

i see plenty of girls i just dont screw them unless theyre my girlfriend

get your facts straight

I guess straight edge has changed. It used to be no sex at all. Well thats what happens when punk dies I guess. thats funny get your facts straight... good one. (as a side note I guess you are correct and can have punani. I always thought the movement was pretty silly anyway. the only thing good that came of it was Minor threat JMO). anyone who doesn't drink, smoke, or eat meat is pretty odd. allot of those guys were smoking up when nobody was looking.

[golden arhat]

I guess straight edge has changed. It used to be no sex at all. Well thats what happens when punk dies I guess. thats funny get your facts straight... good one. (as a side note I guess you are correct and can have punani. I always thought the movement was pretty silly anyway. the only thing good that came of it was Minor threat JMO). anyone who doesn't drink, smoke, or eat meat is pretty odd. allot of those guys were smoking up when nobody was looking.

thats because the song "straight edge" was around before the "straight edge movement" it was about not doing drugs like weed etc so minor threat never came from straight edge
the movement evloved after that song

it changed then and was never about complete abstinence it never has been

anybody who doesnt drink smoke or eat meat is simply someone with those beliefs

not old

however i am more healthy

none of my teachers drink and most of the people i train with dont drink


when has sobriety become so frowned apon ?


try going to an actual hardcore show and asking about it rather than relying on what u hear on FOX


idiot

[monji112000]

thats because the song "straight edge" was around before the "straight edge movement" it was about not doing drugs like weed etc so minor threat never came from straight edge
the movement evloved after that song

it changed then and was never about complete abstinence it never has been

anybody who doesnt drink smoke or eat meat is simply someone with those beliefs

not old

however i am more healthy

none of my teachers drink and most of the people i train with dont drink


when has sobriety become so frowned apon ?


try going to an actual hardcore show and asking about it rather than relying on what u hear on FOX


idiot
:D yah I'v never been to a show :rolleyes:
just to split hairs, most people consider minor threat as part of the movement. Just becouse that song was a big part of creating it, doesn't mean they aren't part of the movement (well the old school movement not the odd balls you see today).

[golden arhat]

something must always die, bugs, wild life habitats ect.. ect.. You think if we turn the whole world into farms animals would be happier?

most of th world is already being farmed

where do u think most of the palm oil comes from ?, areas that used to be rain forest

we should use up all the space used for making meat


u can make like 10 times more food in a given space with veg than u can with animals


not only that but half of all the food grown (wheat etc) goes to feeding cattle pigs etc

same with water


if we stopped eating meat you could feed the world 10 times over

think about it if 70 billion animals were slaughtered this year in the US (and they were) and they all had to eat something

where do you thinkthat came from ?

FARMS

if everyone was a vegetarian world hunger would be a thing of the past because we wouldnt have to feed the cattle etc

hell by the end there would be less farms because we'd have so much surplus that alot of them wouldnt be needed


so not only by eating meat are u killing something unnesscearily, you are also part of the problem that is world hunger

[golden arhat]

:D yah I'v never been to a show :rolleyes:
just to split hairs, most people consider minor threat as part of the movement. Just becouse that song was a big part of creating it, doesn't mean they aren't part of the movement (well the old school movement not the odd balls you see today).


look who is straight edge ?

me or you ?

so who is likely to know a whole load more about it than you ?

thats right ME

if u were a muslim i wouldnt tell you what islam is about as if i were the authority on it

[golden arhat]

oh and can people stop saying stuff like "its just cos he's a kid"

i'm 16

i have an IQ of 149

i have just as much to bring to the table as any of you

get over it

[Black Jack II]

so not only by eating meat are u killing something unnesscearily, you are also part of the problem that is world hunger

This may be the biggest crap said on KFO in 07.

[golden arhat]

This may be the biggest crap said on KFO in 07.

you havent said why


if everybody stopped eating meat
would we be able tp feed the world ?

yes

so by eating meat are you stopping this ?

YES

so how is what i have said wrong ?

u always say things but never back them up

[monji112000]

oh and can people stop saying stuff like "its just cos he's a kid"

i'm 16

i have an IQ of 149

i have just as much to bring to the table as any of you

get over it

I didn't realize who I was dealing with.. I'm so sorry. Mr. Straight edge
Thats nice you have a IQ, I don't have much to bring to the table... but its more than you. ;)

[monji112000]

you havent said why


if everybody stopped eating meat
would we be able tp feed the world ?

yes

so by eating meat are you stopping this ?

YES

so how is what i have said wrong ?

u always say things but never back them up

how can we possibly feed the world without meat? How many natural habitats would that kill? Do you realize the amount of farming we would need to do?

[golden arhat]

how can we possibly feed the world without meat? How many natural habitats would that kill? Do you realize the amount of farming we would need to do?

well we'd employ the people who are busy slaughtering animals/ the unemployed

we already use the space to farm food for animals and to raise the animals themselves

the farms are already there like i said we are already doing enough work to feed a much bigger population with no meat

70 billion a year!!!! all living on non meat products WHERE THE HELL DO YOU THINK THAT COMES FROM ?

there are 6 billion people in the world

are you actually saying to me that we couldnt feed them without meat ?

do you realise how that makes no sense at all ?

[golden arhat]

I didn't realize who I was dealing with.. I'm so sorry. Mr. Straight edge
Thats nice you have a IQ, I don't have much to bring to the table... but its more than you. ;)

i'm just trying to stop people talking down to me purely based on my age

[monji112000]

well we'd employ the people who are busy slaughtering animals/ the unemployed

we already use the space to farm food for animals and to raise the animals themselves

the farms are already there like i said we are already doing enough work to feed a much bigger population with no meat

70 billion a year!!!! all living on non meat products WHERE THE HELL DO YOU THINK THAT COMES FROM ?

there are 6 billion people in the world

are you actually saying to me that we couldnt feed them without meat ?

do you realise how that makes no sense at all ?

I really don't think you have thought this through, but hey your the one with the IQ. :)

[Mook Jong]

You do realise that people will call you kid until your about 25? I'm almost 19 and still get called kid, usually by people who are only a few years older. The people on this board, no offense intended, are probably about 10 years older than us.

[golden arhat]

You do realise that people will call you kid until your about 25? I'm almost 19 and still get called kid, usually by people who are only a few years older. The people on this board, no offense intended, are probably about 10 years older than us.

lol try about 30 years older than us


:P

[monji112000]

You do realise that people will call you kid until your about 25? I'm almost 19 and still get called kid, usually by people who are only a few years older. The people on this board, no offense intended, are probably about 10 years older than us.

even at 25 your still a kid to allot of people. :rolleyes:

[golden arhat]

I really don't think you have thought this through, but hey your the one with the IQ. :)

yeah cos thats a counter argument

u havent backed up WHY you think i havent thought this through

u just state it as if its fact

come on

point out the wholes in my argument or something

[Mook Jong]

site some facts, it will give your argument credence and will stop people from calling you unintelligent. But can you understand why people are getting irritated at you?

[monji112000]

yeah cos thats a counter argument

u havent backed up WHY you think i havent thought this through

u just state it as if its fact

come on

point out the wholes in my argument or something

no need just read your own posts. If you have thought it through... what do I know right? chop down all the trees, build farms, eat veggies.

[golden arhat]

no need just read your own posts. If you have thought it through... what do I know right? chop down all the trees, build farms, eat veggies.

oh look you didnt give a counter argument

AGAIN

[Black Jack II]

Dude,

I back up everything I say in this forum, its guys like you who just don't like what I have to say and try and dodge me, because your own scribble does not hold any real logical water.

Your trying to sound logical, sure, but trust me, what you see coming across the page is far from logical bud. It's pure emotion.