How do you sell outdoor classes?

[Tainan Mantis]

:confused:Hi All,
I teach outside in a wooded area at my mom's house.
It is a nice training environment, but when I try to tell prospective new students I can't figure out how to make it sound good.

Because people expect your school to be in a strip mall or something like that, so when I tell where it is I have to explain that it is on a small lonely street.

So thismethod is not working well for me.

I was hoping some fast talkers here might have some advice on how to spin the backyard kung fu school.

This is my class ad:

http://www.plumflowermantisboxing.com/under%20the%20tree.htm

Kevin

[sanjuro_ronin]

you train even in the rain and whatnot?

[MasterKiller]

For $80/month, I would expect a good facility with mats, heavy bags, pads, and gear.

[B-Rad]

Yeah, $80/month is a bit much without training facilities. Most people aren't going to know Shi Zheng Zhong and praying mantis kungfu from Joe Schmoe's 9th degree fake @ss Karote blackbelt master teaching in the local strip mall. All they're going to know is his place is a lot more professional looking than some guy teaching in the woods ;) Might be hard to pull off other than the occasional nature loving hippy type or someone who knows enough to actually seek you out from the Shi Zheng Zhong connection. I'd say lower your prices.

[Oso]

they're right, Shibo.

Find a nice gym and work a good deal. I'm in the process of negotiating with a gym now. So far we've agreed on a 70/30 split and are working on class times now. I'll probably be closing down the retail spot and moving by Jan 1.

It's a nice spot, the same gym I was in 6 years ago but under new owners, recentyly remodeled with a 4000 s.f. group training floor.

Plus, he's actually eager to get some sort of fighting program going so I'm going to hopefully broaden the san shou program...and with more money in my pocket, I'll hopefully get up to Coach Ross's the next time.

[MightyB]

Your best bet is to go to the local school system and see if you can use one of their gyms. When I was young, we had a good Shorin-Ryu instructor teaching kids and adults after hours in the elementary school gym. He was able to use it for cheap (or free--not sure) anyway, that's how he built up his student base, then he rented his own facility.

IMHO- I don't think a fitness/weightlifting gym will touch you unless you're doing BJJ, Judo, or MMA. San Da has a decent shot 'cuz of the popularity of Thai Boxing- but most weightlifting/contemporary gym facilities don't like traditional styles.

-

[Lucas]

It might just be my skewed form of perception, but I think he wants to keep his class outdoors.

Maybe I mis understand. His website says;

"Classes taught the traditional way in front of nature under the trees!"

This may be part of his tradition as passed down from his teacher.

[eomonroe00]

geeze , i wish i was in your area, outdoor class is perfect for me, did someone say fresh air

[Lucas]

What does $80 entail as far as training?

How much time do you train the students? Days a week/hours.

What type of equipment do you employ? Bags/pads/weights/weapons

What happens during the winter months and rainy times?

I personally think you have something to offer people, but are just looking for the right way to market yourself.

Having a website is a great start. Get some cards made up, so when you are out there you have a connection to give people that will lead them to your site.

Videos are great. they let people actually see what they can expect to deal with in training.

Maybe get a small portion of each aspect of your training onto your site via video. Let action do a large portion of the talking for you.

You may need to adjust your tuition, depending. However that is entirely up to you.

[Ben Gash]

He's in Tampa, I don't think winter training is a problem.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I used to Charge $4.00 per class for out door lessons.

Now I don't even charge for lessons at all. Too many people have given me too much of the BEST Kung Fu for free, I just don't feel right charging if I don't have a rent to pay.

[Lucas]

He's in Tampa, I don't think winter training is a problem.

Good point. How about rain?

[MightyB]

Well- a good way to attract students is with a live demo. Find a venue- ribbon cutting, festival, mall health fair, doesn't matter- just somewhere where there's a large potential audience, and do a demo. Do the big stuff- the flashy- wow I wish I could do that stuff- keep it short- keep it explosive- make them want more... then pass out flyers on how they can learn.

[MightyB]

Also- try to get the local newspaper interested in you. Contact them- let them know your history and get them to do an article on you. It's a great way to get free publicity.

[Oso]

IMHO- I don't think a fitness/weightlifting gym will touch you unless you're doing BJJ, Judo, or MMA. San Da has a decent shot 'cuz of the popularity of Thai Boxing- but most weightlifting/contemporary gym facilities don't like traditional styles.

-

i think this is basically correct. when I started talking with the owner where I'm hopefully moving to, he kept saying 'boxing' so I started saying 'chinese kickboxing' and sent him some links and will be dropping a dvd of our fights in cleveland last spring.

[David Jamieson]

Commit to Charities. Do charitable things with your group. It is a very quick way to grow your base and you will do something good for those who need to have something good done for them. :)

[Tainan Mantis]

Thank you for all the sudden replies.

I will try to respond to most of the questions.

Equipment:
I know that it is good, but most of my teachers, especially my main one did not rely on it or even use it.

There is the tree and a small throwing bag for hitting and grabbing.
A small tombstone with a handle for throwing, 15 and 50 ibs roughly speaking.

Dirt and grass for falling.
This is how I learned and I don't change it too much.

Rain:
There is a shelter to protect from the rain. So far this hasn't been a problem here.
In Taiwan I told the students to wear a raincoat. I think that was a good way to train in a raincoat, especially there since getting into a fight in a raincoat is more likey.

Cold:
Not much of a problem in Tampa. But in cold training we jus wear mittens and hats and everything else you would wear when you go funning in the cold.

To me, the elements remind us of where these arts came from and where they were used.

Bugs:
Surprised no one mentioned this one. This is the most seroius problem for people to be constantly attacked by mosquitos and other biting insects.
Just one more reminder of where humanity grew up.

I am not one to talk about how tings should be done...I only have two regular students.

Gym:
I'm probably going to come off like a granola munching hippie on this opinion, but I don't like the gym.
Too much chrome and glitter. Carpet and A/C and what not.


Oso, I think your positioning yourself as Chinese Kick Boxing was a wise move for getting in there.


Lucas said,

"It might just be my skewed form of perception, but I think he wants to keep his class outdoors.

Maybe I mis understand. His website says;

"Classes taught the traditional way in front of nature under the trees!"

This may be part of his tradition as passed down from his teacher. "

Yes, this is true to an extant. I really don't have much of a choice now.

If I get a place it will be a little bit far from my home where the rent is under 1000$ a month.


Right now it is about 18 hours a month. So if you make it to each class it is less than 10$ a class.
Since the class is so small there is a lot of hands on instruction.

Demo:
I would like to do these, but I have just started teaching and students are not near demo abilty yet.

Cards:
I have cards made up which I pass out when I get the chance. I am not very talented at getting people to come in for their free class with the card though.

In fact, when I have to use my mouth to talk to people about why they should join I think it always backfires since it has never worked.

Just about every student I ever taught came from hearing through others or from seeing the class in action.

Thanks for all the comments.

Kevin

[ngokfei]

Sounds like your running a club, which is a good thing. If you like the training methods you did when coming up then there is no reason to change.

In time you'll develop decent students that can be used for public demonstrations. Quality over quantity. Still that $80 is kind of steep, especially since you don't have a following.

But if your in it for th $$$ to make a living, then there is alot of things you'll have to change - the biggest one is Indoor Training Facility.

[Ben Gash]

Right now it is about 18 hours a month. So if you make it to each class it is less than 10$ a class.
Since the class is so small there is a lot of hands on instruction.

Kevin

Either you're charging for group tuition or you're charging for private tuition, you can't have it both ways. $10 per session is a lot when you've not actually got a hall or a rent to pay.

[ngokfei]

For got to add:

$10 for a private session is more than reasonable. Privates today tend to run $40-$100 an hour.

I'd recommend targeting individuals who are already martial artists and would value your instruction or possible advertise to thos individuals who enjoy the outdoors or possibly link up with another outdoor group, etc.

[sanjuro_ronin]

For got to add:

$10 for a private session is more than reasonable. Privates today tend to run $40-$100 an hour.

I'd recommend targeting individuals who are already martial artists and would value your instruction or possible advertise to thos individuals who enjoy the outdoors or possibly link up with another outdoor group, etc.

He didn't say they were private lessons.

[yutyeesam]

Who are you targeting? How did you get your two students that you currently have?

The reality is that if you plan to make money, you have to spend money. One of the biggest expenses for a new martial arts school owner is rent.

Is there not a community center, recreational center, or a church in your vicinity that you could rent space from? I'm sure they wouldn't charge very much. You could have your main classes there and then supplemental Fridays or something outdoors.

Unless you are an exceptional salesman and can walk up to people cold and get them to try your classes, you're going to hit the same brick wall if you're unwilling to change either price or location.

My advice is to avoid the brick wall, but I admit, I sometimes have to learn lessons the hard way before I change my ways, so I don't blame you if you want to keep trying this way.

[hskwarrior]

hey I charge 60 bucks a month and i got a good group of students. And we teach in golden gate park outside regardless of the weather.

The proof is in the pudding. The park is a good way for people to actually see and watch you train. one of my students happened to be in the park when he saw us.

I'm working on a jogger where i teach to get her come join us.

I don't need an actual school to teach. and when it comes to equipment, i got a big gym bag filled with weapons, pads and such.

all is going well and in fact, in feb 08 i will be officially open and taking students for 3 years now.

[yutyeesam]

This guy's in a backyard, not a public park, so people don't get to see what he does, unfortunately.

You also charge less than he does, which is the smart way to go, when you do outdoors classes.

How's your CLF book coming, hsk? I got a great resource for you for self-publishing. I just published my first book here:
http://www.lulu.com/content/1559138

Lulu.com is awesome for indy publishers! Once you finish your book, if you want to use Lulu to publish and need help, feel free to ask. It doesn't cost much at all, and if you want, you can purchase their distribution package to get an ISBN and barcode so that you can sell it in stores!

[hskwarrior]

My book is coming along nicely.

I'm glad that i've waited this long, because i keep learning newer things that i would have wished i put in this book.

but thanks 123, i'll book mark that.

[Tainan Mantis]

Thanks for the feedback.


Sounds like your running a club, which is a good thing. If you like the training methods you did when coming up then there is no reason to change.

In time you'll develop decent students that can be used for public demonstrations. Quality over quantity. Still that $80 is kind of steep, especially since you don't have a following.

But if your in it for th $$$ to make a living, then there is alot of things you'll have to change - the biggest one is Indoor Training Facility.

It is a group class, but since the group is so small it is like a private class. Since privates are usually over 40 I figured my pricing was ok.

I am comparing myself to what you can buy for the $6 or $7 dollars that one class actually is costing.
With that much money what can you get that is better than this?

I agree about getting the place though.

I will keep looking.

Kevin
www.plumflowermantisboxing.com

[Ben Gash]

It is a group class, but since the group is so small it is like a private class. Since privates are usually over 40 I figured my pricing was ok.


I'll say it again

Either you're charging for group tuition or you're charging for private tuition, you can't have it both ways.

[Dale Dugas]

Also if you are teaching and accepting money you want to get a business license and liability insurance if you have not already done so.

You can lose your shirt and get into some serious hot water if a student gets hurt on the property and you do NOT have liability.

Also have you checked with the town and city where you are teaching about if you can even do this on personal property running a business. You have to be careful as a nosy neighbor could drop a dime on you and they could get you for running a business without licensure and that would suck.

just trying to make sure you bases are coveredc

[Yao Sing]

Kevin
I've been out of the loop for awhile but if you want to put on a show for advertising give me a holler and I'll drive down and help you out.

Been trying to get back down there anyhow but it just hasn't worked out.

[SanHeChuan]

Build a small open air practice area. Just a roof, a wood floor, and two walls. And make it look culturally insync with what you’re teaching. Authentic looking Props like that will bring'm in.

Build up the yard too, with training aparati, statuary, and maybe a foutain.

You'll get your outdoor experience and they'll get the sense of permanence and professionalism that they want from you.

Demonstrate that you’re serious about what you do, and not just some flaky hobbyist that can just decide to stop teaching at whim. If you want them to make an investment in you, you have to make an investment for them.

[Tainan Mantis]

Yaosing,
Thanks. You can come down for any occasion. But when we do a demo I will let you know.

SanHeChuan,
Great advice and philosophy, thanks.

Kevin

[Oso]

one other thing, Shibo.

You, and the rest of us Peng Lai, don't mystify the practice of a traditional chinese martial art. A lot of people looking for 'kung fu' often don't find what they think they are looking for in our practice...at least that's been my experience. Often, the work out is more than a lot of people are looking for in 'kung fu'. Then there is the pain :D

[sanjuro_ronin]

Of course, in the end, its all about what you are teaching and the quality of it.
How well it can be used and such, if it works the word well get around.

Heck, if Rickson was giving lessons at the local garbage dump, I'd go there and arm bar a banana peel !