How to get big and still train kungfu

[DaveTart]

Ok, so here's my problem. I want to a)get bigger/stronger and b)still be able to train kungfu.

The problem with this is the style of exercise at kungfu (very high rep bodyweight exercises) is in complete opposition to what I do when lifting (high intensity, low volume training). So I find that if i train one aspect properly I'm always compromising the other one. ie If I go to the Gym on monday and lift big heavy weights (4-6 rep range) I am much too sore to go to Kungfu the next day and do several sets of high-rep exercises (30-50), or vice versa without wiping myself out for a few days after.

So far I've tried to limit the muscle fatigue/delayed onset muscle soreness by A) using a low volume programme and B) using contrast showers, the latter has been remarkable i must say. However, I'm still not able to train as much as i'd like - ideally twice a week gym, three times a week kungfu.
I've looked into post-workout recovery nutrition to and tried protein shakes etc but that seems to make sod all difference (and the whole "eat within 1 hour or else!!" seems to not have great science behind it anyway), but i'm not sure what else I can do. Obviously I could just Man-up and train through the soreness, but i'm guessing that way leads madness, fatigue and is probably counterproductive to muscle growth.

Any suggestions?

[bodhitree]

The problem with this is the style of exercise at kungfu (very high rep bodyweight exercises) is in complete opposition to what I do when lifting (high intensity, low volume training).

What are the high rep exercises? Are they in the forms or in the class conditioning? If you only do class conditioning a couple times a week, it shouldn't hinder your progress.



Obviously I could just Man-up and train through the soreness, but i'm guessing that way leads madness, fatigue and is probably counterproductive to muscle growth.


I would say that possibly more rest is the key. Rest is where growth gains occur. If you're doing too much activity with not enough recovery, you will not grow.

How many days/times a week do you train and what do you train? More details could lead to better analysis.


Even if you haven't had the growth gains you like congrats for stepping up and training and seeking out the information to improve what you do! Look through the "Strength Training Links" thread here, you may find better info than I can provide!

[Nick Forrer]

do weights and kung fu on the same day

have ever other day off

Also stretching and cold showers and hot baths help with soreness....also ibuprofen but you may not want to take that all the time

[Toby]

I train PTP. Used to be popular around here but there are probably only a couple of lurkers that do it now. I lift every weekday and get no DOMS at all. A little residual fatigue at the end of a cycle, but no real DOMS. PTP particularly appeals to me precisely because it doesn't affect my MA training at all.

[The Xia]

Ok, so here's my problem. I want to a)get bigger/stronger and b)still be able to train kungfu.

The problem with this is the style of exercise at kungfu (very high rep bodyweight exercises) is in complete opposition to what I do when lifting (high intensity, low volume training). So I find that if i train one aspect properly I'm always compromising the other one. ie If I go to the Gym on monday and lift big heavy weights (4-6 rep range) I am much too sore to go to Kungfu the next day and do several sets of high-rep exercises (30-50), or vice versa without wiping myself out for a few days after.

So far I've tried to limit the muscle fatigue/delayed onset muscle soreness by A) using a low volume programme and B) using contrast showers, the latter has been remarkable i must say. However, I'm still not able to train as much as i'd like - ideally twice a week gym, three times a week kungfu.
I've looked into post-workout recovery nutrition to and tried protein shakes etc but that seems to make sod all difference (and the whole "eat within 1 hour or else!!" seems to not have great science behind it anyway), but i'm not sure what else I can do. Obviously I could just Man-up and train through the soreness, but i'm guessing that way leads madness, fatigue and is probably counterproductive to muscle growth.

Any suggestions?
What art do you practice? I recommend style-specific weight training. You can ask your sifu.

[DaveTart]

I do LauGar.
High Rep exercises would be both in the class (lots of punching/kicking) but mainly I mean the high rep exercises in the warm-ups : Lots of push-ups, Squats, situps etc etc. i'd say in a given session anywhere from about 100 to 200 reps on each body part (i can give you a complete breakdown if you really want)

I'd like to (ideally) train kungfu on tuesday, wednesday, saturday, and fit in two weight sessions somewhere in between.

So what is PTP??

[sanjuro_ronin]

do weights and kung fu on the same day

have ever other day off

Also stretching and cold showers and hot baths help with soreness....also ibuprofen but you may not want to take that all the time

IF he is doing or wants to do serious Strength training, he must dedicate a day for it, to combine MA and ST on the same day, one will suffer.

[sanjuro_ronin]

What art do you practice? I recommend style-specific weight training. You can ask your sifu.

No such thing as "style specific" weight training, not unless you wanna hurt yourself.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I do LauGar.
High Rep exercises would be both in the class (lots of punching/kicking) but mainly I mean the high rep exercises in the warm-ups : Lots of push-ups, Squats, situps etc etc. i'd say in a given session anywhere from about 100 to 200 reps on each body part (i can give you a complete breakdown if you really want)

I'd like to (ideally) train kungfu on tuesday, wednesday, saturday, and fit in two weight sessions somewhere in between.

So what is PTP??

IF you wanna get strong with minimum bulking, keeping the weights high 85% and up and the reps low - 3 to 5 is the way to go, compound moves are best - squats, chins, deadlifts, dips, etc.
Bluking up has more to do with diet than they type of strength training you are doing, but to increase "muscle mass" you need to train for "hypertrophy" (SP?).
I would still stick with compund moves, but increase the reps to the 8-10 range.

Check out the stickied thread with ST links.

[DaveTart]

I currently do:
Bench press
Squats
Seated row (or deadlift)
Hamstring curls

I try for a 4-6 rep range, biggest weight i can manage at that rep range.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I currently do:
Bench press
Squats
Seated row (or deadlift)
Hamstring curls

I try for a 4-6 rep range, biggest weight i can manage at that rep range.

That rep range is fine, except for the hamstring curl, that is an isolation moves, if you are gonna do it, use less weight and hit the 10-12 range.
I would add chins and dips ( alternate dips with BP, do BP for a few weeks then switch to dips, weighter if you cna do more than 10 with your bodyweight alone).

Remember, bulking up, if you still want to do that, has more to do with diet, so eat more, but eat good stuff.

[DaveTart]

Cheers for that. The only reason I do the hamstring curls at all is because the other exercises don't really touch them and i've been told by my physio that strong hamstrings are a good idea to supoprt my knees.

Can you explain what you mean by dips? Do you mean dipping between paralell bars?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Cheers for that. The only reason I do the hamstring curls at all is because the other exercises don't really touch them and i've been told by my physio that strong hamstrings are a good idea to supoprt my knees.

Can you explain what you mean by dips? Do you mean dipping between paralell bars?

Yes, dips are a far "better" exercise than the bench press.

Deadlifts and squats will work the hamstrings, though not to the degree that hamstring curls do, just don't go for heavy weights on them, the tendons at the back of the knee and the hamstring itself is a tad "injury prone".

[The Xia]

No such thing as "style specific" weight training, not unless you wanna hurt yourself.
What are you talking about? Lots of styles use different kinds of weights and exercises that are designed around the system's body mechanics.

[sanjuro_ronin]

What are you talking about? Lots of styles use different kinds of weights and exercises that are designed around the system's body mechanics.

You really should look into what the pros think about doing moves that mimic your chosen "sport" with weights, it is not recommended.

Short of isokentics and "pulley/band" systems, doing sport specific moves with weights is a sure why yo get you hurt.

[The Xia]

You really should look into what the pros think about doing moves that mimic your chosen "sport" with weights, it is not recommended.

Short of isokentics and "pulley/band" systems, doing sport specific moves with weights is a sure why yo get you hurt.
I'm not sure what you think I'm referring to but style-specific weight training has worked for a very long time. I have not heard of any injury coming from it (aside from improper training). I'm talking about stuff like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RU3SX2ZfTUA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk738TXZUTQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO7swaqWADs

[sanjuro_ronin]

I'm not sure what you think I'm referring to but style-specific weight training has worked for a very long time. I have not heard of any injury coming from it (aside from improper training). I'm talking about stuff like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RU3SX2ZfTUA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk738TXZUTQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO7swaqWADs

That silly rolling the barbell thing aside, I know what you are saying, I thought you were refering to doing sport specific moves with barbells and dumbells and such.
With weights on your nakles and kicking, that sort of stuff that has been shown to hurt more than help.

[sanjuro_ronin]

BY the way, none of that stiff is even close to doing typical strength training with modern methods.