Put the Hermit to Rest

[MightyB]

There's some unknown 3rd world hermit practicing martial arts in a cave that has trascended this mundane world. This super hermit is all powerful. No one can defeat him... yet, his desire is only in the perfection of human spirit. Gentileness, humility, and compassion are his lifeblood. He reads minds, teleports, is invulnerable, and his chi is so powerful that he could kill you with a thought...

I'm sorry KFM'ers- Jedi aren't real- the hermit isn't real. The only reality is that skill comes from hard work. The key isn't learning some escoteric martial art form or meditating in a cave during full moons- the key is hard work and an open mind.

I'm tired of the argument that true masters don't feel the need to test themselves. "Shenanigans"-- there, I called it.

The old masters accepted challenges.

These endless debates are tired. Are contests like MMA, San Shou, or any of the latest Sport Fu-s the way to go? Probably. If you aren't competing in those types of contests, or if you aren't training people to be able to compete in them, then you are irrevelent.

Yes- the hermit from above will lose in today's world. "Why?" you ask. The answer is simple. Not enough exposure to the realities of combat. Culture limits what's acceptible in a fight, not what's possible.

In the old days in America- "real men" didn't kick. Did "real men" fight? Yes. Were people killed in those fights? Yes. Would knowledge of kicking techniques give someone an advantage in a "real man" fight?-- Yes.

That's what's happening now.

Adapt and grow. Kill the hermit.

[doug maverick]

while yes all that hermit jedi **** is a load of crap. but chi is real, ofcourse all that hitting you without touching is bull. but chi is real, i'm not one for bull**** never have been but i have felt the effects both positive and negative of chi and know its real. as for sport martial arts its just that. when your 40-50-60 you won't be able to do any of that crap anymore. but there are men who can still do martial arts and do it well and still kick ass at those ages.

[MightyB]

I don't disagree with chi. The problem is people look for it to do to much. They're looking for something that will take the place of hard work in applications, training and conditioning, and sparring.

I look at it like this. The observer see's a person at level C. They want to be at level C, but they skip, pretend, or don't do the necessary work of levels A and B.

So they make up a bunch o bunk and people follow them for some reason.

[doug maverick]

oh okay i agree

[bawang]

where did the idea of the chi hermit come from?

[BruceSteveRoy]

where did the idea of the chi hermit come from?

i would guess from folklore and legends. but the chi hermit metaphor has been compounded in modern society by martial media. kung fu movies that give ppl unrealistic expectations of what martial arts and martial artists are. i am not saying that there is anything wrong with the movies. many of them are awesome. but they are works of fiction and too many ppl fail to recognize that. i mean i am all for the willfull suspension of disbelief but not for living in a fantasy world. of course i am not implying that most or even a lot of ppl are deluded in this way but enough are to warrant a conversation on the matter (or in the case of this forum dozens of conversations).

[ghostexorcist]

where did the idea of the chi hermit come from?

From what I understand, people who created martial arts attributed their new style to an ancient hero or celestial being to give it more credence. One good example is this xingyi page (http://www.hsing-i.com/hsing-i/hhist.html), which claims Yue Fei learned the style from "a wandering Taoist...whom had no traceable name". There is, of course, no mention of this nameless Taoist in Yue Fei's official or family records. The only people he trained under was Chen Guang (spear) and Zhou Tong (archery), that's it.

If people know the style is brand new (no matter how powerful it is), they are more likely to stick with the time tested styles of their elders. But if you say it is old and no one can find the hermit you trained under, they are more likely to train under you, which equals money and prestige.

Actually, the best explanation of this came from Empty Flower ...


Just want to bring up some basic background info about Chinese culture:

In the old days the culture in general is very conservative - extremely backward-looking and resistant to change. There's a commonly used phrase for this called Hou Gu Bao Jin (厚古薄今) - value what is old, discount what is new. This is a very negative aspect of China's conservatism, as evident in both Confucian and Daoist thinking: that in the beginning of time people were closer to nature, they were more honest, simple, etc. That, over time as society advances, we become more artificial, and society goes downhill, etc. Conclusion: the older the better, the newer the worse.

Given these prevailing attitudes, if you are a martial art genius, and you make some breakthrough, you create something new, if you go out there and announce to the world "hey, look at this new thing I created." People would be like "who do you think you are, you think you are better than all your illustrious predecessors?!" No one will pay you the attention you deserve. What is the result of all this then - just about everyone lies about the origin of their art, because they have to. There are two very common, tacitly approved ways of doing this:

1. attribute it to someone old, famous: Chen Tuan Lao Zu for Tongbei, Bodhi Darma for all Shaolin 72 skills, Sun Bin, Wu Song, this list goes on forever..., the worst offender - Three Emperors for San Huang Pao Chui (you can't get older than that).
2. attribute it to "old monk deep in obscure mountain/wondering daoist/unusual person with special abilities (奇人) with no name" that he encountered by chance, but you'll have no chance to meet.

Of course the famous person you name must have some general connection to martial art. These days, without the necessity of these lies, a lot of people don't know about these once common codewords, and think "wow, that's so cool, so magical. I must try to find/prove the existence of this teacher." (source (http://www.emptyflower.net/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=150&view=findpost&p=2822))

I hope that answered your question to some extent.

[bawang]

it's strange because i read this famous book the water margin, and the story was very realistic. the heores don't have superpowers, for example lu da kills a man with three punch, and wusong beats a man with a fake jab and a kick.

[doug maverick]

it's strange because i read this famous book the water margin, and the story was very realistic. the heores don't have superpowers, for example lu da kills a man with three punch, and wusong beats a man with a fake jab and a kick.

water margin unrealistic you must be forgeting about all the magic that goes on in that book. but watermargin is a true work of fantasy and is not included in this as most westerners never heard of outlaws of the marsh/the water margin let alone read it. we are talking about the master po type films. which if you think about it is not evedent to much in chinese made films. as the masters are usually bums or cooks not old hermits in temples.

[bawang]

if you're talking about the fake idea of a smiling friendly old man, it's from that movie karate kid, and all of van damme's movies.

[doug maverick]

yeah i know mostly american stuff. well i wouldn;t say van dam the only movie where there was an old man was kick boxer and that dude was a bad ass. know we are talking about the wisdom spouting sage's.

[Lucas]

The 'hermit' is an analogy for the modern state of TMA, in regards to traditionalists being out of touch with the realities of combat, and ignoring whole sections of their training as fighters.

[doug maverick]

i don't even know why they call themselves traditionalist they are not. i don't know what the hell to call them.

[Jeffoo]

I don't disagree with chi. The problem is people look for it to do to much. They're looking for something that will take the place of hard work in applications, training and conditioning, and sparring.

I look at it like this. The observer see's a person at level C. They want to be at level C, but they skip, pretend, or don't do the necessary work of levels A and B.

So they make up a bunch o bunk and people follow them for some reason.

The funny part about this is that those same people never studied true Qigong, which is multiple times more difficult to cultivate and the effects are not noticed until years after the process has begun.

If anyone knows the Lohan Gong exercises, you will know that these exercises are more difficult and demanding than most forms you can learn.

[cjurakpt]

The funny part about this is that those same people never studied true Qigong, which is multiple times more difficult to cultivate and the effects are not noticed until years after the process has begun.

If anyone knows the Lohan Gong exercises, you will know that these exercises are more difficult and demanding than most forms you can learn.

agreed

when doing "real" qigong, it's pretty much working with the autonomic nervous system and the connective tissue matrix, which, if you push the wrong way, will push back, hard; essentialylly, I believe that you are doing sympathetic / parasympathetic "swings", which serve to enhance the bodies natural detoxification processes, fortifies the body's immune responses and increase the system's ability to regulate homeostasis more efficiently; that's why you feel better, digest better, breathe better, sleep better and handle stress better; no magic, no voodoo, just common sense; and it's not all that different from what they do in yoga either, so it's not that super secret - it's pretty much yoga with a dash of taoist flavoring (hence all the internal visualization stuff)

[MightyB]

You guys are reading too much into this. I'm not concerned with Chi Gung and it's supposeable effects.

What I'm writing about is that everytime somebody posts about sport stylists, san da, MMA, or any other type of tournament fighting- somebody else posts a bunk statement about some anonymous grandmaster living in seclusion somewhere that has invincible mad skills. That this super being doesn't feel the need to compete.

What- he doesn't want to eat- to live the good life- etc? I mean it's like saying real psychics wouldn't play the lottery because of some code of conduct rule among psychics. Bull Pucky- if you could win and live the easy life- you would. Or someone else would seek him out to learn these mystifying secrets of power so they could.

[cjurakpt]

it's the ultimate in one-upmanship - claiming there is someone so good that he doesn't have to fight and all that non-sense; look, i have no doubt that there are still guys out there living in relative isolation practicing some sort of cultivation - I've studied with at least one myself, and the guy is something else - a Buddhist monk who used to be in the Chinese army; he looks at least 20 yrs. younger then he is, has endurance like you wouldn't believe (his specialty is 90 days walking meditation: he sleeps hanging on a rope for 3 hours a night...) but if you put him in a ring with a pro-MMA fighter, he'd get killed about 1 second after the bell rang! in other words, if you don't train to fight, no matter what hoo doo voo doo you do, you won't be a good fighter, end of story

but for the fairy tale LARPers who have sucky lives and want to feel special, they pin their hopes on the mysterious unknown coming down from the mountains to set things straight

sorry, doesn't happen...

[sanjuro_ronin]

Actually the hermit is very real, he moved into my old area last year, threw some wild parties and I had to cap his ass from 600 yards out.

Chi bast that !

[doug maverick]

well there are alot of masters that don't compete in tournaments but are very powerful. my sigung rest his soul was wang shu chin and there is no one on this board or anywhere else that could dispute him. and there is know one not f ucking person in sanda or ufc or pride who could've whipped his ass.And although he would show his skill at a drop of a hat to my knowledge he didn;t compete in tournaments.

[MightyB]

well there are alot of masters that don't compete in tournaments but are very powerful. my sigung rest his soul was wang shu chin and there is no one on this board or anywhere else that could dispute him. and there is know one not f ucking person in sanda or ufc or pride who could've whipped his ass.And although he would show his skill at a drop of a hat to my knowledge he didn;t compete in tournaments.

Ok- what about his students?

[doug maverick]

alot of his students have competed and won national championships. some of them don't even care about that sh!t. martial arts was not made for compition and martial arts was not made to be rich and famous either.

[doug maverick]

besides that most of his students are pretty old now.

[Knifefighter]

alot of his students have competed and won national championships. some of them don't even care about that sh!t. martial arts was not made for compition and martial arts was not made to be rich and famous either.

Speaking of LARPer's:

Which students have won which national full contact competitions?

[MightyB]

At one time Xing Yi was the bomb in Kuosho full contact tourneys.

Is their still a Kuosho Federation? They were the first to allow kneeing opponents in San Shou in the US. Like I said- There was a time in the 90's when xing yi'ers had that event locked. Kuosho required that the fighters knew a couple of forms.

But- if what Maverick says is the truth- then his master wasn't the "hermit" I was referring to 'cuz he had people representing him in the ring.

-

[doug maverick]

knifefighter. go to google search any student of wang shu chin and your answer will be there. and yeah xing yi guys use to rock the koushu tourney's. i don't know the current state of things thou. me personally i never got involved in martial arts to when trophies i just enjoyed sparring with my friends. it was better to be king of the block then king of the ring.

[doug maverick]

Speaking of LARPer's:

Which students have won which national full contact competitions?

who did hell you calling a larper. you old as man. you better make sure your altseiphmers is not acting up again.

[Knifefighter]

my sigung rest his soul was wang shu chin and there is no one on this board or anywhere else that could dispute him. and there is know one not f ucking person in sanda or ufc or pride who could've whipped his ass.And although he would show his skill at a drop of a hat to my knowledge he didn;t compete in tournaments.

I'd say that pretty well qualifies you as a LARPer boy.

[Eric Olson]

[I]

Are contests like MMA, San Shou, or any of the latest Sport Fu-s the way to go? Probably. If you aren't competing in those types of contests, or if you aren't training people to be able to compete in them, then you are irrevelent.

Irrelevant to who/what?

I think you are overly narrow in your definition of the "martial community" as those that compete in fighting contests.

There's plenty of people that have and will never compete in those types of contests, so do you consider them inferior to those that do?

EO

[doug maverick]

I'd say that pretty well qualifies you as a LARPer boy.

explain why does that qualify me as a larper. btw i may be stupdi but what the **** is a larper? my sigung was wang shu chin. do your research on him, knifefighter i'm not going to get into this with you again. just go about drinking your geratol and continue to be an old man living in your fantasy world, where you are the king of fighters and you no all and see all. your still a loser.

[MightyB]

Irrelevant to who/what?

EO

anyone with a brain or eyes.

[Knifefighter]

knifefighter. go to google search any student of wang shu chin and your answer will be there. and yeah xing yi guys use to rock the koushu tourney's. i don't know the current state of things thou. me personally i never got involved in martial arts to when trophies i just enjoyed sparring with my friends. it was better to be king of the block then king of the ring.

Couldn't find any records of any of his students winning any national full contact competitions. Maybe you could post the link to these.

All I could find were people dancing around doing forms or doing push hands.

Yeah, this guy sure looks like he could hang in the UFC or Pride:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3331hHtPcbU
Bwahahahaaaaa!!!

[doug maverick]

anyone with a brain or eyes.

my question to you is why? why should they train people fopr sports martial arts. everyone doesn't get into the martial arts for that. did you start this thread just to start a flame war or something. cause thats just ****ing stupid.

[doug maverick]

yup wang shu chin big and fat and could whip you like you stol something punk.

[Knifefighter]

yup wang shu chin big and fat and could whip you like you stol something punk.

LOL... so where are the links to these national full contact champions? Or were you just making that up too?

[MightyB]

I let people know when I start threads to start flamewars- cuz they're fun- like my 1000 post- No, what I'm saying is that good masters put out good students. Real people- not make believe.

I know that people start martial arts for all kinds of reasons, but- you should have a couple in any school that secretly and desperately want to learn sport fu and fight in MA competitions. If your instructor can't help those people- he's irrevelant. Any instructor shoud be able to modify their "deadly apps" to get a student on a lei tai mat- unless they are bunk instructors.

[doug maverick]

LOL... so where are the links to these national full contact champions? Or were you just making that up too?

looking for them now.

[MightyB]

wang shu chin has a good reputation in Taiwan, Japan, and the US. I don't know of any of his disciples but Robert Smith wrote extensively about wang shu chin and his abilities. Robert was a judoka turned tai-chier who knew and trained with the likes of Don Draeger.

[doug maverick]

I let people know when I start threads to start flamewars- cuz they're fun- like my 1000 post- No, what I'm saying is that good masters put out good students. Real people- not make believe.

I know that people start martial arts for all kinds of reasons, but- you should have a couple in any school that secretly and desperately want to learn sport fu and fight in MA competitions. If your instructor can't help those people- he's irrevelant. Any instructor shoud be able to modify their "deadly apps" to get a student on a lei tai mat- unless they are bunk instructors.

i guess that reasonable. when i was a kid i entered some tourneys and kept geting disquafied for stupid things. and i figured they just had it out for our school and i sort of lost my taste for the whole thing.

[Knifefighter]

wang shu chin has a good reputation in Taiwan, Japan, and the US. I don't know of any of his disciples but Robert Smith wrote extensively about wang shu chin and his abilities. Robert was a judoka turned tai-chier who knew and trained with the likes of Don Draeger.

I'm not disputing whether or not he had a good reputation. I am disputing this:

.
and there is know one not f ucking person in sanda or ufc or pride who could've whipped his ass..

Those are the thoughts of a fantasy based LARPer.

[doug maverick]

I'm not disputing whether or not he had a good reputation. I am disputing this:

.

Those are the thoughts of a fantasy based LARPer.

maybe thats an overestimation. but when you here and read things that boxers like jack dempsey and top kyokushin guys and jiu jutsu guys couldn;t put a scratch on him it makes you say that. the guy was 250-300 pounds and could move fast as hell and hit hard and could take hard hits. again i ask you what is a larper?

[MightyB]

This is probably a stupid question, but what does LARPer mean?

I'm in my 30's and I'm not up on all of the internet lingo.

[doug maverick]

This is probably a stupid question, but what does LARPer mean?

I'm in my 30's and I'm not up on all of the internet lingo.

i'm 23 and i'm asking the same **** question.

[Knifefighter]

i'm 23 and i'm asking the same **** question.

http://www.larp.com/

[Knifefighter]

maybe thats an overestimation. but when you here and read things that boxers like jack dempsey and top kyokushin guys and jiu jutsu guys couldn;t put a scratch on him it makes you say that. the guy was 250-300 pounds and could move fast as hell and hit hard and could take hard hits. again i ask you what is a larper?
You are saying he sparred Jack Dempsey? Please list your source.

[doug maverick]

i remember reading this in a biography on dempsey and one on wang. but i don;t think they sparred more like dempsey did what alot of people tried to do. test wangs amazing abillity to take hits.

[doug maverick]

http://www.larp.com/

oh okay. thanks for the definition

[Knifefighter]

but i don;t think they sparred more like dempsey did what alot of people tried to do. test wangs amazing abillity to take hits.

Translation: Dempsey peppered him with punches.

[Jeffoo]

I let people know when I start threads to start flamewars- cuz they're fun- like my 1000 post- No, what I'm saying is that good masters put out good students. Real people- not make believe.

I know that people start martial arts for all kinds of reasons, but- you should have a couple in any school that secretly and desperately want to learn sport fu and fight in MA competitions. If your instructor can't help those people- he's irrevelant. Any instructor shoud be able to modify their "deadly apps" to get a student on a lei tai mat- unless they are bunk instructors.

MightyB...

it's like the contemporary wushu movement in the 1980's and 1990's when old guys like us competed. Their were always those of us that aspired to compete in that division because, at that time it represented the only real way to go up in the standings. Wushu events were getting bigger and bigger while traditional events smaller and more wushufied. Many of those teachers around then who didn't adapt kind of faded off the national and international tournament circuits. Less and less opportunities came up to compete if you were a traditional stylist, while wushu events were running monthly. As you remember I was one of those who wanted to get more into the sport aspect at the time and had many a disagreement with our teacher and other students about the same relevancy. I'd felt that I learned all I could and reached the top in the traditional divisions and the only way to move up was to break with tradition and go into contemporary. You are 100% correct that those who can't/won't adapt to changes become irrelevant. Prior to the medical issues in the school, it was on the decline as a result of this lack of allowing the students who wanted the sport aspect to compete in the sport aspect.

Since the USWKF has not shown any real leadership as they once did, then more and more people are turned off due to lack of events. Meantime MMA events are "the" thing now. As this evolves I bet more people get out of performance based wushu and into MMA.

People who say the don't teach kung fu for the money or that it shouldn't be taught for money have this naive and distorted view of history. In ancient times the truly skilled kung fu teachers didn't wander the land as peasants heroically defeating evil emperors or brigands, they peddled their wares to nobles, princes and kings. They were paid very handsomely to teach these young, wealthy sons kung fu. Step it up a few centuries and the revered Chin Woo Association pops up. That did 2 main things that "traditionalists" don't agree with: It was a profit making center where some of the best kung fu teachers could go and have a ready and willing student base AND it was a place where you could learn (cross train) many styles of kung fu at once.

Anyway the hypocrisy of some "traditionalists" is best left to another thread. :P

[doug maverick]

Translation: Dempsey peppered him with punches.

yup. all to no effect.

[Eric Olson]

anyone with a brain or eyes.

More like irrelevant to the kung fu forum :rolleyes:

EO

[doug maverick]

MightyB...

it's like the contemporary wushu movement in the 1980's and 1990's when old guys like us competed. Their were always those of us that aspired to compete in that division because, at that time it represented the only real way to go up in the standings. Wushu events were getting bigger and bigger while traditional events smaller and more wushufied. Many of those teachers around then who didn't adapt kind of faded off the national and international tournament circuits. Less and less opportunities came up to compete if you were a traditional stylist, while wushu events were running monthly. As you remember I was one of those who wanted to get more into the sport aspect at the time and had many a disagreement with our teacher and other students about the same relevancy. I'd felt that I learned all I could and reached the top in the traditional divisions and the only way to move up was to break with tradition and go into contemporary. You are 100% correct that those who can't/won't adapt to changes become irrelevant. Prior to the medical issues in the school, it was on the decline as a result of this lack of allowing the students who wanted the sport aspect to compete in the sport aspect.

Since the USWKF has not shown any real leadership as they once did, then more and more people are turned off due to lack of events. Meantime MMA events are "the" thing now. As this evolves I bet more people get out of performance based wushu and into MMA.

People who say the don't teach kung fu for the money or that it shouldn't be taught for money have this naive and distorted view of history. In ancient times the truly skilled kung fu teachers didn't wander the land as peasants heroically defeating evil emperors or brigands, they peddled their wares to nobles, princes and kings. They were paid very handsomely to teach these young, wealthy sons kung fu. Step it up a few centuries and the revered Chin Woo Association pops up. That did 2 main things that "traditionalists" don't agree with: It was a profit making center where some of the best kung fu teachers could go and have a ready and willing student base AND it was a place where you could learn (cross train) many styles of kung fu at once.

Anyway the hypocrisy of some "traditionalists" is best left to another thread. :P

their people who don't teach kung fu for the money who are not fulltime teachers. my sifu is a very succesfull egineer. and his only students are his son, two of his co workers and myself. i use to train with him everyday. but now its more sporadically because of his work. more like 0nce or twice a year.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Translation: Dempsey peppered him with punches.

It wasn't Dempsey, it was some other guy, its in Smith's book "martial musings" and all he did was punch Wang in the gut.


By the way Doug, it brings down your Sifu's accomplishments when you try to "elevate" him saying stuff like that, Wang was probably one of those good enough and smart enough to know that, on any given day, anyone can get their clocked clean and pro fighters are just that, pro fighters.

[Dragonzbane76]

and there is know one not f ucking person in sanda or ufc or pride who could've whipped his ass.And although he would show his skill at a drop of a hat to my knowledge he didn;t compete in tournaments.

Thing about this statement, everyone knows someone like this. "Man that guys a bad ass" wouldn't mess with him. They have a little mythos about themselves. Then one day it happens, someone has there number, and they cash it in.

Honestly, there is always someone out there who can take you your teacher and six of his friends. Always someone better. Always someone with more skill. If ever you come to a point where there is no one else and you know it (lol) then go to a cave live there for numberous years, meditate on your destructive abilities, stare at a wall and not blink for 5 years, and every once and awhile put the hurting on some poor village idiot coming seeking wisdom, and chi blast holes in the solid stone wall for the fun of it, then you have become that man whom cannot be beat. (good luck)

[sanjuro_ronin]

Thing about this statement, everyone knows someone like this. "Man that guys a bad ass" wouldn't mess with him. They have a little mythos about themselves. Then one day it happens, someone has there number, and they cash it in.

Honestly, there is always someone out there who can take you your teacher and six of his friends. Always someone better. Always someone with more skill. If ever you come to a point where there is no one else and you know it (lol) then go to a cave live there for numberous years, meditate on your destructive abilities, stare at a wall and not blink for 5 years, and every once and awhile put the hurting on some poor village idiot coming seeking wisdom, and chi blast holes in the solid stone wall for the fun of it, then you have become that man whom cannot be beat. (good luck)

Spot on.
The one thing that all the good fighters I have none had in common, no, scratch that, great fighters I have know, is that they have all lost, and become all the better for it.
No matter how good you are, there is always someone better.
On any given sunday...

[Drake]

Some martial arts ARE combat arts. Others have evolved into sports, such as Judo, even though it does have a pretty brutal alter ego out there.

CLF, for instance, was a combat art, complete with ways for others to identify themselves during a time of rebellion, political turmoil, and of course, fighting.

With the advent of firearms and advanced weaponry, martial arts lost its importance on the battlefield. However, in terms of small fights and individual self defense, martial arts is still quite relevant.

I agree. A master should be able to fight. Even Steven Seagal had to fight his way in Japan due to being an American AND a bad actor.

[greendragon]

In the big picture of martial arts, sport fighting is an insignificant speck. It is on the same level with prostitution, people with low self esteem thinking only of money. Ask anyone who is not into martial arts what UFC, etc looks like .. gay. If it looks like a duck, well..
A kungFu man is warrior AND scholar and sage. There are many awesome old masters living quiet lives. Some have seen real combat. Some are even drunks and braggards that have killed many people. I have met them from Phillipines, Okinawa and Hong Kong. Maybe you see a skinny old guy on the street and think he looks weak, you go to prove how bad you are and end up with knife holes in some vital organs, careful, that blood is slippery.
And why should an enlightened monk bring his heart to bad intent against another human ? It's all about intent you know. There are higher levels of the arts to attain above fighting. Calligraphy, poetry, healing, music, becoming one with nature in your cave. And yes, they are part of kung fu also.

[Jeffoo]

In the big picture of martial arts, sport fighting is an insignificant speck. It is on the same level with prostitution, people with low self esteem thinking only of money. Ask anyone who is not into martial arts what UFC, etc looks like .. gay. If it looks like a duck, well..
A kungFu man is warrior AND scholar and sage. There are many awesome old masters living quiet lives. Some have seen real combat. Some are even drunks and braggards that have killed many people. I have met them from Phillipines, Okinawa and Hong Kong. Maybe you see a skinny old guy on the street and think he looks weak, you go to prove how bad you are and end up with knife holes in some vital organs, careful, that blood is slippery.
And why should an enlightened monk bring his heart to bad intent against another human ? It's all about intent you know. There are higher levels of the arts to attain above fighting. Calligraphy, poetry, healing, music, becoming one with nature in your cave. And yes, they are part of kung fu also.

My the very definition Martial Arts are fighting arts. Spare me the fortune cookie mumbo jumbo please.

[cjurakpt]

A kungFu man is warrior AND scholar and sage.
wrong Wrong WRONG - that is the biggest load of C-R-A-P there is: a myth propogated by TCAm people who wanted to upgrade their social image, nothing more


There are many awesome old masters living quiet lives. Some have seen real combat. Some are even drunks and braggards that have killed many people. I have met them from Phillipines, Okinawa and Hong Kong. Maybe you see a skinny old guy on the street and think he looks weak, you go to prove how bad you are and end up with knife holes in some vital organs, careful, that blood is slippery.
so, let's get this straight - first, a kung fu man is a scholar / sage; but he is also a quiet living, liquored-up old guy on the back streets of some southeast asian city who will knife you in the spleen to prove he's a bad asz?


And why should an enlightened monk bring his heart to bad intent against another human ?
I don't know - maybe the monk gets angry? (and if you think so-called enlightened people don't get angry, then you have no idea at all about what "enlightenment" is)


It's all about intent you know.
wait a minute - I thought it was about a knife in the superior mesenteric artery


There are higher levels of the arts to attain above fighting. Calligraphy, poetry, healing, music,
again, how exactly does this jive with MA being about a unimposing geriatric blade wielding inebriate? and these things are not higher level of fighting arts - they have nothing to do with fighting, and one who practices them without spending time fighting will be a heck of a lot better than someone of equal skill who divides their time, pure and simple


becoming one with nature in your cave.
which, incidentily, can mean dying of exposure and dehydration, then decomposing completely before anyone finds your stupid asz body...and what do you know about cave meditation? ever done it? spoke to anyone who has?


And yes, they are part of kung fu also.
nothing is "part" of kung fu - kung fu is a generic term referring to skill acquired due to hard work; which means any of those skill sets can be done with good "kung fu"; but they are not part of it, because it's a descriptor, not an actual thing

[The Xia]

Lol at that dissection cjurakpt. I love how he goes from "warrior AND scholar and sage" to "drunks and braggards that have killed many people." :p

[cjurakpt]

Lol at that dissection cjurakpt. I love how he goes from "warrior AND scholar and sage" to "drunks and braggards that have killed many people." :p

well, it's all part of a comprehensive liberal arts education, I suppose...

[sanjuro_ronin]

In the big picture of martial arts, sport fighting is an insignificant speck. It is on the same level with prostitution, people with low self esteem thinking only of money. Ask anyone who is not into martial arts what UFC, etc looks like .. gay. If it looks like a duck, well..
A kungFu man is warrior AND scholar and sage. There are many awesome old masters living quiet lives. Some have seen real combat. Some are even drunks and braggards that have killed many people. I have met them from Phillipines, Okinawa and Hong Kong. Maybe you see a skinny old guy on the street and think he looks weak, you go to prove how bad you are and end up with knife holes in some vital organs, careful, that blood is slippery.
And why should an enlightened monk bring his heart to bad intent against another human ? It's all about intent you know. There are higher levels of the arts to attain above fighting. Calligraphy, poetry, healing, music, becoming one with nature in your cave. And yes, they are part of kung fu also.

Dilusional.

[Dragonzbane76]

In the big picture of martial arts, sport fighting is an insignificant speck. It is on the same level with prostitution, people with low self esteem thinking only of money. Ask anyone who is not into martial arts what UFC, etc looks like .. gay. If it looks like a duck, well..
A kungFu man is warrior AND scholar and sage. There are many awesome old masters living quiet lives. Some have seen real combat. Some are even drunks and braggards that have killed many people. I have met them from Phillipines, Okinawa and Hong Kong. Maybe you see a skinny old guy on the street and think he looks weak, you go to prove how bad you are and end up with knife holes in some vital organs, careful, that blood is slippery.
And why should an enlightened monk bring his heart to bad intent against another human ? It's all about intent you know. There are higher levels of the arts to attain above fighting. Calligraphy, poetry, healing, music, becoming one with nature in your cave. And yes, they are part of kung fu also.

And this is the prime example of why TMA gets a bad reputation. People like you spouting this garbage to people and someone whom doesn't actually take MA believes you. I bet you have your own little following somewhere, a little cult like thing? The master who lives in a cave or "backstreet in a 3rd world country" is a mythos, a myth, if this guy does exist he sure the hell isn't worried about Enlightenment, he probably is wondering where the hell his next meal is coming from. MARTIAL ARTS (MARTIAL) MEANING WARLIKE. Warlike and what you described above have no business being in the same sentence.

good day.