Breathing in TangLangQuan

[monkeyfoot]

Greetings everyone

Im hoping for some discussion and opinions about breathing in mantis. Obviously the breath is important in high speed exercise for fueling the blood with oxygen etc. We also have the points that breathing creates more power in a strike, and a step further that it brings Chi into the body.

Unlike like Tai Chi or Hung Gar where breathing can be timed with movement, mantis is so snappy and fast that this seems impossible.....how exactly should we breathe?

I am aware of the basic principles on 'how to breathe'; through the dantien, exhaling whilst extending and inhaling whilst moving inwards etc.....I just dont really get how you actually pull this off in mantis.

Opinions and comments please

Craig

[B.Tunks]

MF,

It's the same in priinciple as what you mentioned, just grouped in combinations rather than single techniques. Exhaling in a relaxed motion over a series of movements. Inhaling is usually quicker (but not as a rule) and usually occurs leading up to 'terminating' movements or postures.

BT

[German Bai Lung]

Greetings everyone

Im hoping for some discussion and opinions about breathing in mantis. Obviously the breath is important in high speed exercise for fueling the blood with oxygen etc. We also have the points that breathing creates more power in a strike, and a step further that it brings Chi into the body.

Unlike like Tai Chi or Hung Gar where breathing can be timed with movement, mantis is so snappy and fast that this seems impossible.....how exactly should we breathe?

I am aware of the basic principles on 'how to breathe'; through the dantien, exhaling whilst extending and inhaling whilst moving inwards etc.....I just dont really get how you actually pull this off in mantis.

Opinions and comments please

Craig

This thoughts should lead to reconsider if Mantis is indeed always "so snappy and fast". In my experience it´s one of the most common mistakes to held Speed over everything else in Mantis. IMO Speed is achieved through timing. Timing is achieved through good structure (body and mind). And Power will only come by applying several things together. One of it is corret breathing for sure!

I myself try to breath out with nearly every technique. There is plenty of time if you try to connect correct bu-fa, shen-fa and your execution of arm techniques! So breathing should also be applyable.

[EarthDragon]

german bei Lung
This thoughts should lead to reconsider if Mantis is indeed always "so snappy and fast". In my experience it´s one of the most common mistakes to held Speed over everything else in Mantis. IMO Speed is achieved through timing. Timing is achieved through good structure (body and mind). And Power will only come by applying several things together. One of it is corret breathing for sure!
awesome statment!

I know this sounds simple but try to focus on breathing naturally. If thinking and concentrating to much on the breath it can take away from the technique.

Unlike mediation where breath is one of the focal points sparring, fighting, training the breath shoud be natural and relaxed dont think to much about it.

[Three Harmonies]

I second ED. If you are thinking about breathing, you are getting the snot beat out of you.
Jake :cool:

[ironfenix]

I personally think that kung fu in general is not natural. if it was then all of my students would do it very well, right from the start. I think we naturally don't have a problem breathing in, it is the breathing out that tends to be hard on most. I personally think we have to train ourselves be focusing on our breathing as we practice jibengongs, bag work, basic sparring drills, etc. until we can go through a match.

thanks

israel

[Oso]

under my first teacher, basically a modified hung gar, i was taught to breathe out if you take a hit, particularly the torso...K. Brazier/Tainan Mantis, through our version of Yi Jin Jing and the 3 Turns 9 Rotations has taught to tense when you get hit. (Shibo, correct me if I've misinterpreted something here)

I have to admit to having a problem transitioning to this...certainly 20 years of one way and not yet a couple years of another way is part of it...

but, I'd have to say that ultimately the breathing should be natural and follow the gross movement of the torso contracting and expanding

[MightyB]

I remember hearing only two things from my SiGung on this topic:

Breath Naturally, and only old-sick-men are mouth breathers.

[Oso]

yea, we get yelled at for breathing out of our mouths too...I'm starting to develop some chronic sinus issues that are a hindrance to that unless I take a decongestant

[B.Tunks]

yea, we get yelled at for breathing out of our mouths too...I'm starting to develop some chronic sinus issues that are a hindrance to that unless I take a decongestant

there's lots of approaches. another is in through nose, out through mouth (but with mouth appearing closed, lips not visibly open). you cant always breathe through nose, especially when it's smashed.

[EarthDragon]

Oso, have you tried a neilmed sinus rinse? works wonderfully

[yu shan]

"you cant always breathe through nose, especially when it`s smashed"

Splendid!

[Oso]

there's lots of approaches. another is in through nose, out through mouth (but with mouth appearing closed, lips not visibly open). you cant always breathe through nose, especially when it's smashed.


yea, between different teachers of kung fu and tai chi I've been shown multiple methods...


speaking of smashed noses...got mine smashed last night...was doing a judo tomo nage on a student while sparring and he ended up kinda piking above me and spiked straight down into my face with his shoulder...blood and everything :D


ED, i've tried several holistic/non drug related rinses and they work short term...my doc says I've probably got a mild case of rhinitis.


yu shan, i'm correct about how Kevin talks about taking the hit, right?

[Tainan Mantis]

has taught to tense when you get hit. (Shibo, correct me if I've misinterpreted something here)

Wow, I am glad I saw this.
In the training of some qi gung we do there is no exhalation on getting hit.

In forms and fighting it is different.

The first is forms.
In the forms there are numerous spots where you hit yourself while doing the form. When this is done you can exhale thru the nose or mouth. This is not just TL, but some other styles as well.

Normally breathing is through the nose, but there comes a point where you are just gasping for breath and breathing like an old hot dog in the sun. So then what do you do?

So there is exhale thru the mouth in that case.
Whether using mouth or not, keep the mouth pursed and jaws clenched.

But, there comes a time, especially when you have blown your load and the fight is still young where you can't breath through the nose because the airholes of the nostril just are too small(beware the fighter with the wide, flat nose).

So, I usually mention that keeping the jaw clenched helps prevent knockouts and lost teeth.

At least you can try to close your mouth at the moment of contact if you remember that.

But...when I delivered blows to my shiye Li Hongjie, he followed none of these rules as he let me hit hm to my heart's content. He was 70 at the time.

He laughed and ridiculed me as my fist made contact with his belly.

Kevin

[Oso]

thanks for clarifying. :)

[B.Tunks]

Oso,

another good method is to lay off the coke. clears the sinuses right up ;')

[Oso]

Oso,

another good method is to lay off the coke. clears the sinuses right up ;')

lol, nope, not me...I'm strictly a liquid bread kinda guy.

I've got deep family history of sinus and lung issues...people dead of chronic lung issues on both sides of the family.

7 years as a bouncer in my early 20's wasn't so good to me either. I know for a fact that second hand smoke is hateful to ya. The first 18 months after quitting that work was like being born again.

[B.Tunks]

O,

nah, didn't get that vibe from ya.

That's no good about the family medical history. My family has bad sinuses too but not as serious as that. I can't breathe out of one nostril (sometimes get about 10-20%, usually nothing at all) but that's mainly from having my nose busted and part of eye socket/cheek.

T

[Oso]

not a worry, knew it was joke.


coincidentally enough, the body drop to my face the other night has left slight bruising and a somewhat consistent nosebleed...tis a ***** when your students start countering you regularly:)

[EarthDragon]

oso, tis a ***** when your students start countering you regularly

This just means you are teaching them correctly!

[Oso]

mebbe...but it still hurts and I don't heal like I used to:p