lemme pick ya brain!!!!!

[hskwarrior]

folks, i'm trying to shape some of my thoughts on the usage of pads for CMA.

I would like to know some of your opinions why pad work is important to chinese martial arts.

Things like timing, hand eye coordination, actually having the opportunity of feeling what it's like to actually strike something with your techniques.

So in your opinons....

what are the benefits to pad work?

[Laukarbo]

Hi,

well u named it already..

we use the pads for kicks,roundhouse,sidekick and frontkick..
sidekick and front can be defensive or offensive..
the offensive is like u chasing the one with the pad..he will move back wards,changing directions and angles
The defensive,the person with pad will move forwards trying to push u backwards so in this case ur kicks become stop kicks...

we also use the pads for handstrikes in the same manner..and of course also focus mits,on the mits we practise small combos out of the forms and then change the order or combine them anything goes...then using the heavy punching bag to build up striking power and to get the right structure when hitting...as u already said its a big difference if u hit air or hit something heavy or resisting... this kind of training takes a big part in our training.
I had someone coming to our training who already had 6 years of cma but he mostly learned forms and stuff but when it came to hit the bag there was nothing..just hurt his hands..

[hskwarrior]

Thanks laukarbo.

Yeah, we use them for the same purposes. Thai pads are great for practicing your biu jongs and such.

I also have routines where a student stands in front of another while the one with no pads performs sections of forms and actually strike the pads adding a deeper sense of reality than just doing it in the air.

[David Jamieson]

maintenance of correct structure while moving and striking also plays in.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Pads and a "belly pad" = awesome workout !
Add some "thigh guards" too.

[Laukarbo]

I actually have a form on the heavy punching bag..all the movements are taken from the forms,all attacking moves..so now since the bag moves u have to adjust stances etc. u are not allowed to stop the bag...nice little workout too and u learn to apply the strikes on a gheavy moving object..still not a replace ment for a partner but u can let off all the steam on it...

[unyma]

I agree with what's already been said and I'd add one more thing. Many people have a fear of being hit, working with pads can give them a means to train the more martial aspect of the art with less worry. This in turn can boost confidence and perhaps allow less pad usage over time. In this way not only can a person learn what it feels like to hit something then can also learn what it feels like to get hit. A valuable lesson in my opinion. Everyone gets hit, it's helpful to know how you react when you get hit.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Some have issues with pad and bag work because you are "zoning" in on something that is not a human form nor reacts the human way.
I have never found that to be the case personally, I view Pad, Mitt and bag work as tools to develop certain attributes of my strikes, not to "teach how to fight".

[Drake]

It also gets the person used to resistance on the long, wide strikes. So many forms have the strike just cutting through the air, but how does a sow choi feel and move when something is in the path of the strike?

[Subitai]

Good comments above.

What's also very important about Pad work is...


How good is the person holding the pads. It means allot if you think about it.

That person needs not only know what YOU need but also how to adapt and Change with you.

"O"

[hskwarrior]

yeah i agree about the pad holder issue.

when i hold the pads for my students all goes smoothly, but when my students hold them it all goes to hell. they don't understand yet.

i'd like to thank everyone because some i already believe, and some i've forgotten about.

[omarthefish]

It also gets the person used to resistance on the long, wide strikes. So many forms have the strike just cutting through the air, but how does a sow choi feel and move when something is in the path of the strike?

having trained with Frank a bit, I can tell you one other thing he does which I think actually feels "better" than pads is leaving an actual arm out there to sau choi or better still, to "feed" you attacks which you have to "sau" out of the way with the first part of the move.

I'm not opposed so some pad work but am not as much a fan of it as some for CMA work. I like sparring sets and 2 man drills. For getting used to not kicking air, in my past Muay Thai training in addition to thai pads we had some drills where you could kick each other pretty much full on (had to build up to it slowly). We learned how to safely block the kicks and would then just take turns kicking each other.

I found the pads more useful for aerobic work. We had some drills where we'd cycle through maybe 7 or 8 either individual strikes or short combos and do say....a set of 10. So basically 50 strikes or so per set.

Maybe it's just the prejudice some people have against forms. I don't really get where pad work is superior to sparring sets.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Maybe it's just the prejudice some people have against forms. I don't really get where pad work is superior to sparring sets.

Well, they work very different things for one, pad work is set, but nothing compared to set two man patterns AND you can go full on with follow-through, can't do that in two man sets.
You tax your system more with pad work than with any type of two man forms, or any forms.

[Mano Mano]

I find pad work also good for training the bridge hand.

[hskwarrior]

sanjuro,

sorry bra, but can you go further into what you mean about taxing your system when it comes to pads?

See, one of my favorite combo's in CLF is Kwa Sow Chop......against the pads it feels great, but as Omarthefish said, i'll leave my arm out there and make it very hard to move me.

But "FEEDING" attacks so my students can get a better sense of how our CLF works is very important. I found it allows them to see other things and how they can be applied in the same manner.

One of my favorite focus mitt drills is holding them facing together while my students are in their fighting stance. They wait to see which pad i move prior to striking. It helps with "ANTICIPATION" too.

So, folks, what are some of your favorite pad drills, be it kicks, punches or a combo of both?

[hskwarrior]

The benefit for the pad holder IMO is that you constantly have to issue resistance to every strike being thrown. As i said, IMO this helps with having better and stronger blocks.

[sanjuro_ronin]

sanjuro,

sorry bra, but can you go further into what you mean about taxing your system when it comes to pads?

Thai pad work and focus mitt work are usually different, but lets assume they are the same for illustrative purposes ( and one shoudl really invest in a belly pad if one is doing pad/mitt work and even thigh guards, it truly is a whole new game with them), you can train with the pads/mitts to develop skills ( skill based), power or HIIT type.
Skill based tends to be the least taxing for obvious reasons and HIIT power based tends to be the most.

You can tax the system via a moderate paced skill workout 6 rounds each 3 minute with 60 sec rest or increase the pace by decrease rest to 30 secs or you can tax the system by doing 1 minute full bore rounds with 30 sec rests for 8 rounds.
A combination of BOTH is super taxing.
Do 6 rounds of 3 min w/30 sec break, followed by 6 rounds of 1 minute power boxing with 30 sec break.

[hskwarrior]

ahhhhh i see what you're saying.

So according to the way you use the word, making my students throw full speed sow choys on thai pads for 1 minute straight would be "TAXING"

[hskwarrior]

while training one of my classmates to fight, we worked up to 15 3 minute rounds of drills. so yeah, i guess thats taxing right?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Taxing different pathways, correct.

[deeperthantao]

I think pads are great for kicks and follow ups, both defensive and offensive. Thrust kicks into punch combos, retreating or shuffling side kicks into combo moves, while the bagman changes direction/advances/retreats/