"The RIGHT THING" (ATTN Jeffoo and Raul Ortiz)

[lkfmdc]

Earlier today, I privately discussed with a forum member the concept of the "doing the right thing" no matter what. Ie even if it wasn't conveinent, even if it was controversial, etc....

When Mike (Lama Pai Sifu) called me earlier tonight and mentioned that Raul Ortiz had called him, this is what I said. I feel I should re-post it here because it is the "right thing" to do

Jeffoo isn't a CTS person, he is a praying mantis person. Really whatever he thinks or does has nothing to do with "us". But Jeffoo, since you seem like you are a straight shooter, let me share some stuff with you

For a significant period of time (perhaps more than 10 years? I do not honestly know the details) Raul Ortiz has been associated with Sifu Lee Kam Wing and has dedicated himself to traditional 7 Star Praying Mantis. He is friends with and cross trains with senior students of 7 Star Praying Mantis sifu Cheun Leun (RIP)

I suspect your posts are based upon some "sport karate" aka "tournament" stuff that Raul Ortiz did in the 1980's. Heck, we all did some sport tournaments :D

However, it would be incorrect to base all your opinion upon him based upon this and/or the videos he did back then. Like I said, today he is a very well tought of TRADITIONAL Sifu

There are enough trolls and lies out there, two legit people shouldn't argue over a misunderstanding

Peace

Happy Holidays

[Jeffoo]

Earlier today, I privately discussed with a forum member the concept of the "doing the right thing" no matter what. Ie even if it wasn't conveinent, even if it was controversial, etc....

When Mike (Lama Pai Sifu) called me earlier tonight and mentioned that Raul Ortiz had called him, this is what I said. I feel I should re-post it here because it is the "right thing" to do

Jeffoo isn't a CTS person, he is a praying mantis person. Really whatever he thinks or does has nothing to do with "us". But Jeffoo, since you seem like you are a straight shooter, let me share some stuff with you

For a significant period of time (perhaps more than 10 years? I do not honestly know the details) Raul Ortiz has been associated with Sifu Lee Kam Wing and has dedicated himself to traditional 7 Star Praying Mantis. He is friends with and cross trains with senior students of 7 Star Praying Mantis sifu Cheun Leun (RIP)

I suspect your posts are based upon some "sport karate" aka "tournament" stuff that Raul Ortiz did in the 1980's. Heck, we all did some sport tournaments :D

However, it would be incorrect to base all your opinion upon him based upon this and/or the videos he did back then. Like I said, today he is a very well tought of TRADITIONAL Sifu

There are enough trolls and lies out there, two legit people shouldn't argue over a misunderstanding

Peace

Happy Holidays

Yeah I posted where I got the basis of my fraud account from in the other thread. Fair enough...He's rectified his past life. Thanks for the update. My apologies to Sifu Ortiz. It sounds like he's on the right path now.

And yeah it was based on his cheesy videos and seeing his students perform those at tournaments when I was competing.

[lkfmdc]

OK, another issue we can close the case on ;)

[Green Cloud]

Dave, you ot to be kidding me Raoul Ortiz is one of the best exponents of 7 star preying mantis on the East Coast. You are giving this guy credit for only 10 years of training with lee kum wing, are you kidding me!! Raoul Ortiz is a pioneer in the Chinese Martial Arts world. He was out there when there werent any Kung Fu tournaments competing against Karate guys at Karate tournamenst paving the way for CMA.

You have to expalin that to this guy Jeffoo,,, like his opinion counts:rolleyes: Shiat we don't even know his name. This guy get's on here and throws stones at my buddy Sifu Ortiz and has nothing to shlow for it but the fact that he studied with some chinese dude Ninja please!!!

Do you think a mans lifes work is based on who he is associated with???!!! Let me tell you I was competing along side with this guy back then and he was a bad mo fo and he still is.

Jeffoo you can S u ck My Di ck unless you reveal who you are!!!

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Jeffoo you can S u ck My Di ck unless you reveal who you are!!!

Does he still have to suck it if he 'reveals' himself?? LOL

[djcaldwell]

Is is just something about a matter being closed that bothers people?

He apologized. He noted that he was mistaken and credited him for his efforts. David clearly has a good opinion of him but apparently his less than deity status is not sufficient.

Just let it be.

[Green Cloud]

Oh by the way I'm sure you are gonna ask what I'm doing on this forum when I said I wouldn't cotribute on this forum any more I'm not I'm just being a good friend and brother. Loyalty to ones country and loyalty to friends and family compels me to get on here and set things strait:mad:

This thread is just arogant like you saying that you think that Sifu Ortiz is now cool according to your opinion is ridiculous. LIke your opinion means anything. And as far as Jeffoo well he is no different than Foo Kok. This is why MMA is making CMA look stupid,,, they don't care you the f u ck you studied with but just how good you realy are!!!

Talk less, Practice more and when Someone has something to say fight.

[Green Cloud]

Does he still have to suck it if he 'reveals' himself?? LOL

OK even though I'm not happy with you that was funny.

[monji112000]

Does he still have to suck it if he 'reveals' himself?? LOL
what do I get if I reveal myself?:D

[djcaldwell]

what do I get if I reveal myself?:D

Probation!!

[lkfmdc]

my buddy Sifu Ortiz



Ah, yes, you were so close with him that at one tournament you thought his name was "Paul". He tried telling you over and over again his name was Raul. Ah, yes, I remember it well..... :rolleyes:

[Green Cloud]

Ah, yes, you were so close with him that at one tournament you thought his name was "Paul". He tried telling you over and over again his name was Raul. Ah, yes, I remember it well..... :rolleyes:

Dave that's the problem you live in the past, that was a long time ago. Every since then we have been good friends.

[Jeffoo]

Dave that's the problem you live in the past, that was a long time ago. Every since then we have been good friends.

Green Cloud. First of all I doubt you were around when I competed. IF you were, you would remember that my teacher called me Jeffoo, hence EVERYONE knew me as Jeffoo. Brendan Lai referred to me as such, my teacher did, all my Si Dai did...everyone did. I lost count of how many medals and trophies I won, but when I left my school to go on my own, the trophy case was depleted.

Second, I remember Sifu Ortiz from those days when his mantis was...well..not real. We saw some of his students throughout the early 1990's and they claimed some BS lineage. Look up any information on my teacher Ho Yin Chung. There's not much out there in the US because he kept to himself here. Ask ANY old timer in Hong Kong about him and you will see who he is.

I've already apologized to Sifu Ortiz. I studied mantis privately with my teacher 2 hours a day every day for the better part of 6 years. I trained with him in class and helped him teach 6 days a week for those same 6 years. I drove him around to the store, to the school I helped set up, etc. I bought my first Porsche with him...he was so proud too...riding there and showing it to the class like it was his. He even drove it once..ONCE...LOL Back to sifu Ortiz. My recollections of him are from a bit back and I've voiced my opinion there. I've been out of those circles for a while and If David, says he's ok...that's all I really need to know to be honest. Now if you want to keep creating drama like a little ***, I can point out more of what's incorrect in your forms and dummy techniques.

[cjurakpt]

I see time has not dulled the blade...:D:D:D

[Jeffoo]

I see time has not dulled the blade...:D:D:D



I'm older and slower... I need to be sharper. :eek::eek::eek:

[cjurakpt]

I'm older and slower... I need to be sharper. :eek::eek::eek:

not really when you're cutting tofu...

[Jeffoo]

OUCH....lol Nice one

[Green Cloud]

Green Cloud. First of all I doubt you were around when I competed. IF you were, you would remember that my teacher called me Jeffoo, hence EVERYONE knew me as Jeffoo. Brendan Lai referred to me as such, my teacher did, all my Si Dai did...everyone did. I lost count of how many medals and trophies I won, but when I left my school to go on my own, the trophy case was depleted.

Second, I remember Sifu Ortiz from those days when his mantis was...well..not real. We saw some of his students throughout the early 1990's and they claimed some BS lineage. Look up any information on my teacher Ho Yin Chung. There's not much out there in the US because he kept to himself here. Ask ANY old timer in Hong Kong about him and you will see who he is.

I've already apologized to Sifu Ortiz. I studied mantis privately with my teacher 2 hours a day every day for the better part of 6 years. I trained with him in class and helped him teach 6 days a week for those same 6 years. I drove him around to the store, to the school I helped set up, etc. I bought my first Porsche with him...he was so proud too...riding there and showing it to the class like it was his. He even drove it once..ONCE...LOL Back to sifu Ortiz. My recollections of him are from a bit back and I've voiced my opinion there. I've been out of those circles for a while and If David, says he's ok...that's all I really need to know to be honest. Now if you want to keep creating drama like a little ***, I can point out more of what's incorrect in your forms and dummy techniques.

I have to respond only because I can't let you have the final word. The dummy set I was free styling to show hand speed and as far as commenting on my vids or Raouls vids it's only fair if we had something to go on like one of your vids.

All I have to say is that it seems like you have been living in the past,, so what have you done lately:rolleyes: http://www.wongpeople.com/tournament_2003.html

http://www.wongpeople.com/tournament_2004.PDF

These are the same people that used to compete in the Nacmaf tornaments.

http://www.wongpeople.com/tournament_2005.doc

http://www.wongpeople.com/tournament_2006.html

We have been part of Wongs top ten list every year, I'm not trying to brag or anything it's just that they list the top ten schools every year. I've done this at most tournaments with just a handfull of students.

Listen we all can look back at our High School years but what have you done lately to promote CMA and your lineage besides getting on ths forum and trashing people that have been consistently working hard at promoting CMA.

[lkfmdc]

Whatever it was you were doing on that dummy, whatever you want to call it, it was not something Chan Tai San taught you.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I have to respond only because I can't let you have the final word.


I think this will become my new signature line.

[Green Cloud]

Whatever it was you were doing on that dummy, whatever you want to call it, it was not something Chan Tai San taught you.

Dave we all know your name dropper and you have to use Chan Tai Sans name to justify who you are.

That video doesn't say anything about it being Chan Tai Sans, Those are my arms and my legs and are part of my genetic make up.

I don't have to ride on my Sifu's coat tails to justify who I am. I moved like that before I met the old man and I was even faster.

You miss the point of the video I'm not displaying Chan's kung fu but my own physical skill. Let us see how you move today and lets compare and then you can say something.

You see just like I have said before I'm not Chan Tai Sans boy, I'm not even my dads boy. What I am is my own Man not someone who needs to toot their Chan Tai San horn:rolleyes:

http://www.wongpeople.com/tournament_2003.html

http://www.wongpeople.com/tournament_2004.PDF

[MasterKiller]

What I am is my own Man not someone who needs to toot their Chan Tai San horn:rolleyes:

Then why does your tag line say "I am my teachers student"?

[hskwarrior]

oops:o ......

[lkfmdc]

Dave we all know your name dropper and you have to use Chan Tai Sans name to justify who you are.



Let's see, your web site is www.greencloud.net where you claim you were adopted as a young boy by Chan tai San, that you are the head of the "Green Cloud Monastery" (which DOES NOT EXIST), and you claim CTS taught you all sorts of things including "Pankration" :rolleyes:

My web site www.NYSanDa.com only mentions Sifu in my bio. 95% of my students neither know who CTS is nor would CARE! My name and my school is built upon what we offer and the fighters we produce.




That video doesn't say anything about it being Chan Tai Sans,



Your entire web site screams about how you are CTS's student, you swing daily from his nutsack... so clearly you will lead people to believe what you show is CTS kung fu WHEN IT IS NOT

For once in your life, be HONEST, I know it's hard for you, but just admit that the stuff on your web site/youtube is

Japanese Jiu Jitsu you learned at silent flute (the ONLY black belt in anything that we can confirm by the way)

Knife and stick fighitng you learned from Kempo black belt Huk Plantas (should I mention you studied with him a WHOLE WEEKEND, yet are somehow qualified to teach it?)

Wing Chun you learned from a former a friend (a former friend who trashed you on this very forum and no longer speaks to you, hmmmmmm)




You see just like I have said before I'm not Chan Tai Sans boy, I'm not even my dads boy.



Did you father disown you? Can't say I'd be surprised :rolleyes:

Funny, if you aren't living of CTS, why does your web page have all that info abotu Lama Pai

Oh, yeah, let's also remind everyone that ALL THE LAMA PAI INFO ON YOUR WEB SITE IS PLAGARIZED FROM MY WRITING (ie coped word for word)

You keep bringing up the Wong tournament. I wonder why? Oh, yes, that's right

1. Because being in the "Top 10" is simply a function of how many students you brought

and

2. It is a forms event

Tell us all Gus, the two times your students tried full contact fighting, being the Battle at the Boardwalk and the 2006 USKBA nationals, what exactly happened? Please do put your spin on it, then I can post the video

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Dave we all know your name dropper and you have to use Chan Tai Sans name to justify who you are.




I agree. Dave Ross is certainly a name dropper. He frequently mentions people he has associations with or has trained with as a reference for a point that he is trying to communicate. He doesn't say "look at me, I'm cool, I studied with so and so" or "I met and spoke to this guy or another" for no reason.

I think all of this is moot at this point. Gus has made his stand as did David, Chris and Myself. Our original intentions (although not initially discussed collectively) were to support Gus when he came to this forum, but at the same time, help him to not tell exaggerated stories about Chan Tai-San (and I'm referring to the one where Gus claimed that CTS ripped out some guys intestines - I know, he doesn't claim he was there, but he claims it happended and there were witnesses), correct other people's terminology (as done with Fu Pow with the techniques Chuyhn Sum Teui) or put out incorrect information about CTS or the styles he taught.

This is all.

Then things went south pretty fast.

Incidently, all these things we tried to address in PM's and then they seem to come out publically after that. No one had luck with PM's.

Nobody hates Gus and he wasn't a target for any reason. After some of the afore mentioned activity, we individually stepped in as those things were direct reflections on us.

Gus retaliated with a myriad of insults and empty challenges. Period. Not a terrible guy, just defensive and argumentative with his classmates. But we do call him on his sh1t when it gets thrown out and will probably continue to do so. hey, what else are friends for? LOL

This is what happened. This is the real story. I dont' want to fight with Gus anymore, or anyone else on here. I do feel the need to speak my mind and will from time to time call people on their B.S. when I see it coming. I Love CMA and don't want it to get anymore convoluded than it already is.

I have spoken out about people that I think are scammers and charletons. I will probably continue to do so in the future.

That is (hopefully) all I have to say on this matter. I think. Maybe.

[Jeffoo]

I have to respond only because I can't let you have the final word. The dummy set I was free styling to show hand speed and as far as commenting on my vids or Raouls vids it's only fair if we had something to go on like one of your vids.

All I have to say is that it seems like you have been living in the past,, so what have you done lately:rolleyes: http://www.wongpeople.com/tournament_2003.html

http://www.wongpeople.com/tournament_2004.PDF

These are the same people that used to compete in the Nacmaf tornaments.

http://www.wongpeople.com/tournament_2005.doc

http://www.wongpeople.com/tournament_2006.html

We have been part of Wongs top ten list every year, I'm not trying to brag or anything it's just that they list the top ten schools every year. I've done this at most tournaments with just a handfull of students.

Listen we all can look back at our High School years but what have you done lately to promote CMA and your lineage besides getting on ths forum and trashing people that have been consistently working hard at promoting CMA.

Let's see what else have I done in the intervening years? Oh yeah, I helped sponsor the Beijing Wushu Team to the US. Let's see...I taught side by side with Wu Bin to over 1,500 people at various classes and seminars. I promoted wushu in 10 different cities(Tv interviews, media, etc.) while we taught this same 1,500 people. On the traditional side, I have taught lion dance to the University of Michigan. I teach kung fu to them. I teach Kung Fu to the Detroit Chinese Association and before I moved to where I am now, I had a school with 130 students in a very active after school program and am in the process of duplicating that success in 3 major markets near me.

Making Wong's list is not so much about promoting good kung fu as it is about self-promotion, which you seem to be better at than you are at kung fu. Face it based on the video I saw of you, I don't have much respect for your kung fu. It's for sure not CTS as you claim. The dummy form is what I see most other scammers do and that's a series of impressive sounding strikes, which really amount to nothing more than bit ch slaps. What's next...claiming you can strike that dummy 12 times in a second?...Watch you go....AS I said before, your fan with a butterfly is so fake it's more pitiful than funny. I learned 4 fan forms (mantis, CLF and Tai Chi). Never once did I see a butterfly. Again, many "sifu" use this move when they have a shallow knowledge of real kung fu. It impresses people who don't know better. Unfortunately for you, we here...know better.

[Jeffoo]

That video doesn't say anything about it being Chan Tai Sans, Those are my arms and my legs and are part of my genetic make up.

I don't have to ride on my Sifu's coat tails to justify who I am. I moved like that before I met the old man and I was even faster.

You miss the point of the video I'm not displaying Chan's kung fu but my own physical skill. Let us see how you move today and lets compare and then you can say something.]

If I were you then I'd ask for a genetic refund. Speed means nothing if you can't back it up with good technique and power. I would love to see you end a confrontation with that garbage I saw on the Dummy.

[EarthDragon]

I stopped watching desperate housewives to tune into KUNG FU FORUM?????

if we ran our bodies as much as we ran our mouths we could be beat jesse owes to teh beer store.........that is if our heads could fit through to the door to and our shoulders didnt give out form holding all that ego

pass the popcorn.............. NEXT!

[cjurakpt]

Dave we all know your name dropper and you have to use Chan Tai Sans name to justify who you are.
no, I think he uses his student's excellent amateur and pro fight records to justify who he is, which is a san da coach; I think it's a pretty linear 1:1 relationship myself...


I don't have to ride on my Sifu's coat tails to justify who I am...
so, why is it that you then duplicate almost exactly move for move the way CTS used to do the sword / spear bending thing, including that ridiculous, non-sensical flexing of your platisma muscle and doing a bunch of pseudo-bok mei moves right before? now, you might argue that you have "evolved" the skills from how CTS did it, and to a point that's true: sifu never speared himself in the leg or fell down onto the floor at the conclusion of the demo, so in a sense it is technically different...

[cjurakpt]

so what have you done lately:rolleyes:
ask a silly question...


Let's see what else have I done in the intervening years? Oh yeah, I helped sponsor the Beijing Wushu Team to the US. Let's see...I taught side by side with Wu Bin to over 1,500 people at various classes and seminars. I promoted wushu in 10 different cities(Tv interviews, media, etc.) while we taught this same 1,500 people. On the traditional side, I have taught lion dance to the University of Michigan. I teach kung fu to them. I teach Kung Fu to the Detroit Chinese Association and before I moved to where I am now, I had a school with 130 students in a very active after school program and am in the process of duplicating that success in 3 major markets near me.
get a biotch-slap answer!

Jeff: 10; Gus: -2

[Green Cloud]

If I were you then I'd ask for a genetic refund. Speed means nothing if you can't back it up with good technique and power. I would love to see you end a confrontation with that garbage I saw on the Dummy.



Jeffool if you want to see that happen just stop by I'd love to show you or if it's a confrontation that you wanna see than confront me I'm sure we will run into each other at some event:mad:

This is my final post for this year since I'm officialy starting my holiday and I will bring in the new year with good thoughts and good friends and not spend anymore time talking to some person that probably doesn't exist.

[cjurakpt]

Jeff is family now! Once you've been challenged by Gus, it's official!

[lkfmdc]

which has he done more? Made empty challenges or announcements that a post would be his "last"? :rolleyes:

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Jeff is family now! Once you've been challenged by Gus, it's official!

I think we're gonna need a bigger boat.

[cjurakpt]

which has he done more? Made empty challenges or announcements that a post would be his "last"? :rolleyes:

now THAT is a good question: you would need some sort of trawler or data mining program to find the answer...

[cjurakpt]

I think we're gonna need a bigger boat.

LOL!


.....

[doug maverick]

BLAH BLAH YAKITIE SHMACKITIE. i try not to get involved in this stuff but **** its getting rediculous. i remember when i first came on this board. back in like 99 and i use to do the challenge thing, when some people called out my old hung ga/shaolin teacher because he ws no longer with a certain organization and people construed that as him being phony and i was throwing out challenges like it was garbage only one person excepted and we ended up missing each other. and now that i think back on that i feel like i was so young and dumb(i was like 15) but i can't blieve that their are grown as men on here who are suppose to be sifu's and have young kid students who look up to you that are up here doing this kid ****. come on man grow up

[cjurakpt]

BLAH BLAH YAKITIE SHMACKITIE. i try not to get involved in this stuff but **** its getting rediculous. i remember when i first came on this board. back in like 99 and i use to do the challenge thing, when some people called out my old hung ga/shaolin teacher because he ws no longer with a certain organization and people construed that as him being phony and i was throwing out challenges like it was garbage only one person excepted and we ended up missing each other. and now that i think back on that i feel like i was so young and dumb(i was like 15) but i can't blieve that their are grown as men on here who are suppose to be sifu's and have young kid students who look up to you that are up here doing this kid ****. come on man grow up

just for that, I challenge you; but you need to reference the "standard" rules under which all such challenges must be accepted (e.g. - between 43 and 44 minutes of being issued), carried out (e.g. - the all-important footwear question that to this day Dave and i have not been able to resolve) and ultimately retracted (e.g. - backpeddling gets you ridiculed, whereas backpeddling by proxy is a whole other story); if you can't adhere to these, just forget it

[yaoli]

BLAH BLAH YAKITIE SHMACKITIE. but i can't blieve that their are grown as men on here who are suppose to be sifu's and have young kid students who look up to you that are up here doing this kid ****. come on man grow up


"who are suppose to be sifu's" :)

[Jeffoo]

Jeffool if you want to see that happen just stop by I'd love to show you or if it's a confrontation that you wanna see than confront me I'm sure we will run into each other at some event:mad:

This is my final post for this year since I'm officialy starting my holiday and I will bring in the new year with good thoughts and good friends and not spend anymore time talking to some person that probably doesn't exist.


LOL a challenge. How many of those have you made and how many have you actually followed through on? Let me guess here....a dozen and 0, respectively? It's ok... I know plenty of people who are brave at a nice safe distance, you're not the only one. :D

Now want to explain the fan to me? :p

[doug maverick]

just for that, I challenge you; but you need to reference the "standard" rules under which all such challenges must be accepted (e.g. - between 43 and 44 minutes of being issued), carried out (e.g. - the all-important footwear question that to this day Dave and i have not been able to resolve) and ultimately retracted (e.g. - backpeddling gets you ridiculed, whereas backpeddling by proxy is a whole other story); if you can't adhere to these, just forget it

LOL to funny

[doug maverick]

[QUOTE=yaoli;829024]"who are suppose to be sifu's" :)[/

HELLO TYPO