More Ninegate videos

[Dale Dugas]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdcBC9ZULa8

These people have no website, but a myspace page that talks about a lot of things that make you question many things. They call themselves Nine Heavenly Dragons Kung fu and sell an Iron Palm training dvd with that name. Here is a link to this myspace page in question: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=122250580

What do you mantis people think about his claims and material?

Ordained and vow holding monks and students who have no link to any temple that ordained them make you wonder what they are hiding.

Something is rotten in Denmark on this one.

[IronWeasel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdcBC9ZULa8

These people have no website, but a myspace page that talks about a lot of things that make you question many things. They were calling themselves Nine Dragons Kung fu and then Ninegate with links to this myspace page: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=122250580

What do you mantis people think about his claims and material?

He sounds like he is full of BS.

He also was claiming to be a Tibetan Buddhist priest for a while.

Dear lord...



His name is Davyd Moerler.

I've read a few things about this guy in the past...hilarious! He apparently purchased instructional kung fu videos, but told his students that he was receiving new forms and information directly from the Shaolin temple through meditation. Yes, some of the students believed him.

[gunglihchuan]

I tried to watch this video yesterday and I my opinion it is unlike any northern mantis that I have studied or seen. I have been studying Tai Chi Praying mantis for over nine years and I have seen many other branches Chut Sing, Lien Her, Ba Bu, Mui Fa, Tai Chi Mui Fa and all of them focus on speed.

The gentleman in this video performed his sets very slowly and the bow stances were very narrow. I have seen mantis performed this slowly only for teaching purposes.

I also find it odd that a mantis practitioner would wear a lay Wushu Shaolin monk gray robe.

I was initially interested because this video was titled Jade Ring mantis and I was disappointed to read that he only drew from that system along with many other styles. I have never seen Jade Ring mantis and I was interested.

I do not like to critique any one in a negative way but this does not seem to me like a good representation of Bak Tang Lang: Northern Praying Mantis Kung Fu

Sincerely,
Steve

[Dale Dugas]

His name is Davyd Moerler.

I've read a few things about this guy in the past...hilarious! He apparently purchased instructional kung fu videos, but told his students that he was receiving new forms and information directly from the Shaolin temple through meditation. Yes, some of the students believed him.


Actually this is his student Tony Fucina.

He and his techer David Moerler have been teaching BS for years.

Here is a link to a website which goes into detail: http://www.buffalotaichi.com/dragonsong/

There is even a PDF of David and his BS: http://www.buffalotaichi.com/dragonsong/Original_Fraud_Alert.pdf

What a hoot! He was buying video tapes from Green Dragon and telling his students they were from his training. See the above link for the larger version of the letter from Shifu John Allen.

Here is Davids first website that talked about all that they taught. http://www.buffalotaichi.com/dragonsong/Original_9D.pdf Seems they could teach everything and anything.

Here are the people who have played this farce:http://www.buffalotaichi.com/dragonsong/players.htm

I have also emailed Tony Fucina asking him how ordained monks(who knows what temple or lineage) can seemingly lie and defraud the public as to their history and lineage when connected to David Moerle. a known martial arts fraud.

I have yet to receive a response.

[IronWeasel]

Actually this is his student Tony Fucina.



I didn't watch the vids in your link (...still at work), but I have seen them.

I'm sort of surprised that he still has "students".

[Dale Dugas]

It is sad to see people claiming to be ordained monks perpetuating lies and false claims of training.

[IronWeasel]

It is sad to see people claiming to be ordained monks perpetuating lies and false claims of training.




Send them a link to the forum...perhaps they'll respond. :)

(unless they're on here already...0

[B-Rad]

Some of the worst martial arts I've ever seen. Y'all should see his ground fighting seminar someone posted awhile back. It'll make you want to blow chunks. There's quite a few guys out there with fake/questionable backgrounds, but these guys kind of toe that line into Iron Kim Chung Moo Doe dangerous cult territory (dangerous to their own students I mean). When I first saw some of his vids I got a laugh thinking it was just some D&D nerds larping in their basement... the website though definitely points to a more serious problem.

[mantis108]

I think he needs to take it easy on the Sherry Temple. Those who associate with him should get their brain scanned.


Various clips from our 36 Praying Mantis forms, our mantis is unique but influenced from several styles including but not exclusive to seven star, six harmony, southern, jade ring dragging hand etc, Clips are from First Crushing Step , Jade Ring, Diamond Wheel Fist and Stabbing Fist performed in an industrial setting.

I can't believe he actually ripped off jade ring mantis, which nobody has seen for years. I just love the clip on his blog that he clearly didn't have any balance yet he "can" takedown a guy, who out weights him at least 50 pound or so. :D That's excellent movie fu in my book except he rolls like a cylinder which we all know doesn't come from traditional Kung Fu, otherwise I would have given him a perfect 10 for efforts. ;) Oh and the serious look on their faces - priceless! :eek:

BTW, talks about artistic licensing (re: bad renditions) of forms. OMG WTF! :mad:

Anyhoo... I thought I have bad Kung Fu. Thank God, there is much worst out there. LOL... But then what do I know, he may be auditioning for the new "Kwai Cheung King Kung Fu" movie. May the force be with him on David Carridine's Song Mountian temple. Amen! Oieee...

Mantis108

[Dale Dugas]

Seems the cult would rather stay in their basement and play at being monks, nuns and students rather than face reality.

sad really.....

I did message the myspace page and give them this link to come here and answer the questions posed but mouthboxers and cowards who are also frauds have no spine so I dont assume they will.

Here is some info on Si Tai Gung Moerler from an old website:

[Si Tai Gung Davyd J Moerler
Personally trained in Foo Joon Lin Kuei, consisting of survival skills, self defense and various wilderness Skills and Chinese folklore of Southern China's origin. Over twenty years experience in the martial arts, eleven in teaching, Sole founder of Shaolin 9 Dragons Kung fu as a conglomerate of several Shaolin and various other Chinese arts and Sciences pieced together without reduction in order to create a complete martial and health art to enhance quality of life and refinement of spirit in the Shaolin tradition. A disciple and Priest of Shaolin under the Diamond School of Natural Shaolin Arts, in Chan Buddhism, ordained minister backed by Sacramento Ca. There is difficulty in New York State and its
recognition of Buddhist and Taoist philosophies. Within the 18 Classical Weapons of Chinese Kungfu we offer 52 variations. I am also qualified to teach varieties of Indonesian weaponry .

Trained under Sifu Tahn Nie Kho founder of Night Leopard Strikes form the Cave Kwoon to attain a Fourth Level Black Sash in the following: Ho Mei Pei ( Shaolin art that stresses large circular movements, powerful striking, advanced weapon work with carry over into empty hand fighting sets). Hao Peng ( Shaolin art specializing in eight gates, angular and indirect attacking methods such as groudfighting, contains Northern Monkey, Northern Dragon, Five Elements and the Nine Emotional Fist) Hung Pei ( Stresses Five Animal influence, Nature Fist Boxing, a large quantity of Chin na and throwing arts ) Guru Pentjak Silat Serah also awarded by Sifu Tahn Nie Kho, an abstract Indonesian art form consisting of breathing exercises, transcendal and imitative meditations to reach higher consciousness, Fighting theories and concepts mainly, only a handful of actual prearranged techniques.

Black Sash Wing Chun under Master Jonathon Goh, a small variation of Moy Yat style of Wing Chun. This style stresses close in fighting techniques heavily reliant on the hand techniques and foot work accompanying and maneuvering for proper angular attack.

Yang and Chen style Taijiquan under Master James Ho and a number of his associates, we teach four complete hand forms including applications both for health and self defense. Also as part of the Taiji curriculum both static and fixed step pushhands as well as a Taiji Jiann Set (double Edge sword) and a push hands form. Later training will be made in the Shaolin Modified Yang Set and the Taiji Darn Dao ( saber ) will be offered as they are currently under study by myself, Kung fu is a lifelong learning process.

Tong Bei Quan , Seven Star Mantis were both studied under Master Hau Se Fong, my teacher's teacher, as well as advanced weapon sets in Shaolin Kung fu. Under his tutelage, I am able to teach the following animal styles, White Ape, 5 Family Monkey, Seven Star Mantis, Yin & Yang Mantis, Snake, White Cobra, Golden Python, White Crane, Golden Leopard, Bear, Scorpion, Tiger, and From 9 Classical varieties of Dragon 27 of the 36 variations . Our non-animal essences include Nature Fist, 5 Element, Beggar's Fist, Drunken Style and Drunken Eight Immortals.

My personal experience has also drifted into the Japanese arts of Yokonshu ryu Ninjitsu and Aikido which I have an honorary black belt and black belt respectively in. In the past I have also studied Shadow Eagle, Choy Lat Fut, Hung Gar, Heaven & Earth Hsing I, and Pa kua Chuan but none to any significant rank at this time.

The training of Kungs or Great Skills as they are often called requires total dedication and are offered to our most trusted students at the advanced levels. these include Iron Palm, Iron Vest, Muscle Tendon Change, and Stone Dragon. As head of this system I have studied nearly 30 of these Kungs and allow training in them after the above four have been studied.

There are other links on other forums asking things about them as well as one person who used to be involved with the group telling all.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49336

There is also a blog where they skirt around the issues and not answer some of the questions that have been asked about them.

http://songmountain.blogspot.com/

I got an email a while back from someone claiming to be Tony Fucina and the address was:ninegate@gmail.com I have no idea if this was David Moerler as gmail accounts are readily used to hide your id. Feel free to email that account and see what is up.

[IronWeasel]

There is also a blog where they skirt around the issues and not answer some of the questions that have been asked about them.

http://songmountain.blogspot.com/

I got an email a while back from someone claiming to be Tony Fucina and the address was:ninegate@gmail.com I have no idea if this was David Moerler as gmail accounts are readily used to hide your id. Feel free to email that account and see what is up.


He used to sell dubs of Green Dragon tapes on Ebay under 'Songmountainmonastery'. Most of the styles listed above matched the tapes that were for sale.

I think the guy in the vid is probably Moerler.

If he dodges questions in a blog, he probably won't answer you here.

In fact, he probably gets questioned about his background on a daily basis.

[mantid1]

Come on Mr. 108....you have to admit you loved the ground work in his vid.

This guy should have had someone name him as a disciple...then he would be good to go!

Well...if you are a shaolin priest you probably dont need to be a disciple.

I have noticed there are a lot of shaolin preists running around these days.

[IronWeasel]

This guy should have had someone name him as a disciple...then he would be good to go!




I'll take him as my disciple...I have a few openings available.

I will train him in the style of Imaginary Mantis, and I will show him the secret ways of AMway.

I even made up my own form...it's called Weasel Digs Its Own Grave.

[EarthDragon]

As Buffalo is a small town and I have been in the MA for a long time in this town thier are not many people in the arts that havent heard of me or walked in my door over the years.

David took some classes from me way back in 96 and then quit 3 months later. Then my student brought in a hand drawn flyer that read... teaching 8 step praying mantis on Niagara falls boulavard.....mind you thier is no 8 step school on the boulavard so I called, left a message and got a call back 2 days later. After asking many questions with no real or even honest answers I confessed who I was and got a quick "I'm sorry Sifu" and promised that he would stop teaching and adveristing 8 step............................

later that summer he advertised teaching 7 star..&^$*@*(&)* I didnt bother to call back

[mantis108]

ED,

I feel for you, my friend. BTW, I kind of wonder if a contract that states students can not teack without permission would have helped?

What do you guys think?

Mantid1

My friend, I would love to see him pulling any of his stuff off for real. :) BTW, speaking of ground fighting. I recently saw a Yi Quan Paris Cup tournament clip. I though I saw BJJ but the link label clearly said Yi Quan. I never knew that Yi Quan really means MMA in France. So there you go. ;)

Yi Quan Tournament (http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=F6KR8pbHrM0)

Warm regards

Mantis108

[Dale Dugas]

As Buffalo is a small town and I have been in the MA for a long time in this town thier are not many people in the arts that havent heard of me or walked in my door over the years.

David took some classes from me way back in 96 and then quit 3 months later. Then my student brought in a hand drawn flyer that read... teaching 8 step praying mantis on Niagara falls boulavard.....mind you thier is no 8 step school on the boulavard so I called, left a message and got a call back 2 days later. After asking many questions with no real or even honest answers I confessed who I was and got a quick "I'm sorry Sifu" and promised that he would stop teaching and adveristing 8 step............................

later that summer he advertised teaching 7 star..&^$*@*(&)* I didnt bother to call back

Do you have an address for these Songshan Monastery people?

[IronWeasel]

Do you have an address for these Songshan Monastery people?



posted at 5am? You just gettin in? :D

[mantid1]

Hi Dale

I enjoyed watching your iron palm vids.

I would like to suggest that you keep the bottom brick flat on the surface of the supporting block while doing your controlled focus penetration break (breaking the bottom brick). It will make it a bit more difficult.

Have fun with the training!

[Dale Dugas]

posted at 5am? You just gettin in? :D


I get up early to train daily. Been doing it for years. I went to bed last night at 9:30 which is normal for me.

Gotta train that hand early before work and school.

[Dale Dugas]

Hi Dale

I enjoyed watching your iron palm vids.

I would like to suggest that you keep the bottom brick flat on the surface of the supporting block while doing your controlled focus penetration break (breaking the bottom brick). It will make it a bit more difficult.

Have fun with the training!

Mantid1

Thanks for the advice.

Do I know you?

There is no contact info and wondered who you are.

Happy new year!

[EarthDragon]

Dale,
tony just responded to me via myspace and he was very polite and very respectful, I guess they had a problem with ken an ex student but again tony was very kind and respectful in his repy to me..... they are teaching out of his house in depew NY a suburb of Buffalo.

what about thier story doenst make sense? any questions you would like me to ask?

[Dale Dugas]

They have no lineage other than from a known fraud David Moerler who over the years has claimed much. David has no lineage as he never seriously studied with anyone. He seems to be nothing more than an armchair MA student and serious mouthboxer.

Tony has been nice and respectful to me as well which means nothing. Why has he not responded to the questions that I have emailed him from his gmail account as well as that Myspace page which reeks of fantasy rather than reality.

Claiming to be ordained monks(tibetan), and wearing shaolin robes and claiming over 36 mantis forms is just the tip of the iceberg. The misinformation is hitting you right in the face when you watch the videos and see all the toys but no skills.

The red flags are all waving and they are telling us they are not what they claim they are.

They seem to be teaching things they know NOTHING about.

Funny that neither David Moerler nor Tony show their hand and show the skills they have. People hide when they have nothing to show.

[EarthDragon]

agreed on all parts, what would you like ME to do? beat them up or burn down thier palace aka his moms house LOL seriously what would you like to see done.

Thiers many fakes and frauds in MA world we all know this but if they keep to themselves and dont bother others what should be done? I am open to suggestions but not sure where you wanna go with this

[Dale Dugas]

agreed on all parts, what would you like ME to do? beat them up or burn down thier palace aka his moms house LOL seriously what would you like to see done.

Thiers many fakes and frauds in MA world we all know this but if they keep to themselves and dont bother others what should be done? I am open to suggestions but not sure where you wanna go with this


Just wanted to make sure that people get the word out that they are not what they represent themselves to be. Hence they give real MA teachers a bad name.

They are also ripping off the shaolin temple link which just rots. Gene would boil seeing these people make Shaolin look bad.

Thanks.

[EarthDragon]

no worries Dale. I dont think that anyone would confuse these guys are legit or spend money on thier cause without some kind of research but lets not assume LOL at least for my city anyone who is interested in kung fu usually comes to my school or the one in hamburg but TKD is the dominant art here so thier is little confusion. if we spend energy in trying to debunk all the crap schools and teachers out there.... there would be no time to train eat OR sleep.... have a great new year.

PS the ice bowl is in Buffalo today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hurray eat your hearts outs hockey fans

[mantid1]

I had a guy study with me in Tai Chi for about 3 years on and off. He averaged a class or so a week. I did let him help with warm ups from time to time.

He was out of shape. Could only do the forms (and not very well). Waste of time to try to teach him to fight even if he was in good enough shape....he was/is very lazy. He never had and interest in it.

He got fired from his job...moved 40 minutes away.

So he goes aff and starts teaching at four different clubs...saying he is a certified instructor. He was going to hospitals giving lectures on Chinese medicine...and trying to teach childrens self defense.

He was telling eveyone he learned Chinese medicine from the Shaolin Monks, Trained with with a Kung Fu master for seven years that he had only met one time. Trained n Tai Chi with CC Chen for 3 years. He was also a Monk himself.

I tried to warn the hospitals about him and other places he was teaching seminars at. I was the one threatened with legal action.

There are alot of lazy, low life, fakes out there....it is disgusting.

It seems you dont have to have martial skills....just a good talker.

[EarthDragon]

its amazing that you need license to catch a fish...... however you can open a school and teach deadly arts to school kids with nothing in writing authorizing them to do such, no documentation what so ever, no license or diploma or even a note from thier mother saying it's OK. cool huh?


gotta love America

and if you get a massage from a unlicensed person or school its considered prositiution. not that i would know..... just heard from a friend

[Dale Dugas]

actually you need a business license in pretty much all cities and towns to operate anything in which you take money and offer services. If not then you are doing business illegally.

You also need a tax id number to get the business license as well as Uncle Same does not like when you do not pay them for monies received.

You should call the local business office and see if the Ninegate people are operating a non licensed business. You did mention Moms basement, that sounds way fishy and illegal.

Thats something you could do to help stop the frauds.

[EarthDragon]

true however I meant a license to teach.

A DBA is way too easy to have as well as a tax # my point was a authorization to prove what you are teaching is legit.

[Dale Dugas]

These guys have another video out. It seems they are pretending to hit people and call it an iron body demo.....

check it out:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJoAG4jAU80

Love the "big" guy going around hitting people.

I think that is David. Though Im not sure.

[Golden Spider]

Wow, they have 22 videos on their YouTube account. 54 subscribers...
Dang, they know all the styles that I always wished were real.:eek: They even had a seminar I missed...:confused: If only I had known.:D

[HOKPAIWES]

Their stances are ****ty, from there just like **** it all rolls down hill.

[diego]

I think he needs to take it easy on the Sherry Temple. Those who associate with him should get their brain scanned.



I can't believe he actually ripped off jade ring mantis, which nobody has seen for years. I just love the clip on his blog that he clearly didn't have any balance yet he "can" takedown a guy, who out weights him at least 50 pound or so. :D That's excellent movie fu in my book except he rolls like a cylinder which we all know doesn't come from traditional Kung Fu, otherwise I would have given him a perfect 10 for efforts. ;) Oh and the serious look on their faces - priceless! :eek:

BTW, talks about artistic licensing (re: bad renditions) of forms. OMG WTF! :mad:

Anyhoo... I thought I have bad Kung Fu. Thank God, there is much worst out there. LOL... But then what do I know, he may be auditioning for the new "Kwai Cheung King Kung Fu" movie. May the force be with him on David Carridine's Song Mountian temple. Amen! Oieee...

Mantis108
lmao...i don't even have the patience to force myself to train my basics full time everyday (so i sit on here:) ) and these people have a whole team just hanging out playing forms from videos.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R3ibpvQKcw

[diego]

holy ****, puts on hater cap...i know something about breakdance i can tell you something about proper motion....the hell are these people dancing a kung fu dance...holy **** how is that described....what they are doing is like when you don't fight you shadowbox...well when you don't shadowbox you have the idea of techniques in combination...these cats got an idea and just decided to spaz out. My go, if you watch a master and look at his students they walk like the master...which can be bad if the master is old and the students are learning to fight for the first time....they can move fat and slow like the old master...wheras if you see the master when he was young and look at his students then they all snap and pizzazz...these yokels picked up instructional speed flow in they style and they demo it like they mastered it...lmao at master level basic form, and now you gotta master the basic ya moron...lmao they don't even know how to perform the moves with proper life....

[B-Rad]

That's got to be the worst spear to throat demo I've ever seen. Despite being baloney to begin with, his people surround him while the fat guy breaks the brick! Kind of defeats the who purpose of the demo if you can't see the spear against the throat :p

[IronWeasel]

That's got to be the worst spear to throat demo I've ever seen. Despite being baloney to begin with, his people surround him while the fat guy breaks the brick! Kind of defeats the who purpose of the demo if you can't see the spear against the throat :p



I wonder what sort of Chi Gung they use to protect the Atlas vertebrae from sledgehammers and the like?

[B-Rad]

That's what the big wide flat slab is for ;)

[IronWeasel]

That's what the big wide flat slab is for ;)



Are you talking about the guy with the hammer? :p