View Full Version : No desires?

ninja turtle
03-28-2001, 06:08 AM
I've been working on this for a while now- but in an ultimate/complete sense- is it truly possible? Lacking desire for material things is easy, but food, water and women? When I get hungry or thirsty- I get hungry or thirsty- my stomach starts to eat itself if the munchies are too late. The last part(opposite sex- for some, same sex.) I can picture as possible, but highly improbable. Denying yourself the activity is one thing, but, just not having that desire...... ? I mean, I used to think about sex every seven seconds in high school- to stop completely would be like a heroin addict quitting cold turkey- but heroin is bad, and so are desires.

My girlfriend will be ****ed.....

ninja turtle
03-30-2001, 05:21 AM
So you guys had no desire to respond....
I'm working on that one, too.

03-30-2001, 05:50 AM
Sorry dude, just didn't have much to say :)

I think it is a good goal to have, but don't be discouraged if you have trouble reaching it. It is an extremely difficult goal to achieve.

Keep trying, but have fun too.

Guns don't kill people, I kill people

03-30-2001, 07:15 AM
It's one or the other. No man can serve two masters..

Take a look at:
Life and teaching of the Masters of the Far East
by Baird T. Spalding

Take a look at my Signature below as well.

There is no spoon. "The Matrix"
There's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path. "The Matrix"

03-30-2001, 04:12 PM
One foot on the train and the other on the station

It's one or the other. No man can serve two masters..

Was that directed at me?

If it was, then I don't see why having fun and eliminating desire are two different things.

If not, then ignore this :)

Guns don't kill people, I kill people

03-31-2001, 01:06 AM
You shouldn't cultivate no desires. You should cultivate no attachments. There is a subtle difference.

03-31-2001, 02:23 PM
Good point Braden :)

Guns don't kill people, I kill people

04-01-2001, 12:00 PM
There's a difference between the things that we need and the things that we desire. You need food and water to live and as for sex, try looking at it like this.

Once we fulfill an intent brought on by desire then the desire is no longer there. Say for instance you desire a play station 2 once you have one the desire to own one has gone and you will never desire one again (unless stolen or something) the point being that for some cases this is not true. Like sex for instance, once you have fulfilled this desire you know that it will return again and again the same goes for food and drink.

Celestial Amiboshi
04-01-2001, 06:22 PM
Piffle, I say. You need food and drink to live, but not sex. You won't die if you don't have sex nor will it affect you negatively. Honestly, it's just an archaic instinct and it's pathetic that you allow yourself to be controlled by it. I don't have the desire for sex and you know what? I am THANKFUL for it. I live a free life and am not under the tyranny of my hormones. A few of my brother's friends go down to bars every weekend just looking for women who are willing to have sex with them and when they don't they actually suffer. I think its ridiculous! :rolleyes:

"Love is something which is never meant to last. It is but a flower that blooms and then withers away."

04-02-2001, 04:04 AM
Never heard of DSB? :)

The sex urge is a primal instinct, and should not be simply ignored. It can be controlled, but it is nature's way of ensuring the survival of the species. Don't fight it too much :)

Having said that, while I enjoy looking at beautiful women I am not a slave to my sex drive. I agree that it is a good feeling to not be controlled by my hormones.

Guns don't kill people, I kill people

Celestial Amiboshi
04-02-2001, 04:31 AM
No, I haven't heard of DSB. Enlighten me. Anyway, I am not ignoring an urge, what I'm saying is that I have absolutely no urge at all. This is the 21st century and we are civilized and evolved begins. Sex should begin to have a diminished role but unfortunately it doesn't.

Now, I do consider myself to be somewhat of an aesthete. I also enjoy beautiful things but I would never consider any woman to be a sex object as you seem to be doing. That is incredibly shallow. Whatever happened to connecting with someone on the mental level? I hope one day to have a very cerebral but also emotional relationship with a woman one day, one that is untainted by banal desires.

"Love is something which is never meant to last. It is but a flower that blooms and then withers away."

04-02-2001, 05:17 AM
DSB is Dangerous Sperm Buildup. It's a joke :).

Don't assume that because I like to look at beautiful women that I am treating them as sex objects and am a shallow person. Get to know someone before you pass judgement. Where did I ever say that because I look at beautiful women that I treat them as sex objects?

My girlfriend would disagree on your premature assessment of me.

Guns don't kill people, I kill people

04-02-2001, 05:20 AM
You sound like you have never had a relationship with a woman. If you had, then you would know that physical desire is an integral part of a healthy relationship. You seem to have lofty ideals on what a relationship should be like.

Welcome to the real world. Most healthy women would eventually become bored with a purely intellectual relationship.

Guns don't kill people, I kill people

Celestial Amiboshi
04-02-2001, 05:41 AM
I'd like to know how you're able to speak for all healthy women? Perhaps any women out there on the forum would like to post an opinion?

Anyway, my ideals may be lofty, but I will never abdandon them. A relationship based on the mind and emotions only, is pure. I will never settle, either. If I don't find someone to share my life with, then so be it. :)

"Love is something which is never meant to last. It is but a flower that blooms and then withers away."

04-02-2001, 06:59 AM
Do you have a reading problem? I didn't say all healthy women, I said most healthy women. Contrary to popular belief, women enjoy sex as much as men do. There are also just as many men out there who are uninterested in sex as there are women. MOST women would find a non-physical relationship unsatisfying I think, as would most men.

Good luck to you in your quest for your perfect relationship. I sincerely hope you find it, because a lot of people don't.

Guns don't kill people, I kill people

04-02-2001, 01:58 PM
I just couldn't stay out of this, boys.

As a woman, I must say that YES, we apreciate sex in a relationship. Not as much as you guys, but this is a biological issue :)) .

Now: as a woman AND as member of this discussion board, I say sex is a lot more fun/enlightening/ beneficial for health and mind when practiced with someone I'm in love with. It's not just the passion thing, I mean, there's the friendship, the mutual respect, etc...

Having sex with a different person every day/week/month for whom I feel only physical desire is stressing (for both partners, I believe) and doesn't bring that much satisfaction.

Anyway, I feel that a relationship without sex is like a chocolate cake without the chocolate, if y'know what I mean.

But that's just my opinion.

Celestial Amiboshi
04-02-2001, 09:59 PM
No, I certainly do not have a reading problem. It was merely an error on my part. May I ask why you're so hostile? :)

"Love is something which is never meant to last. It is but a flower that blooms and then withers away."

04-03-2001, 02:34 AM
I am hostile because you are very willing to make assumptions about the person that I am without bothering to get to know me.

You use words like shallow and imply that I treat women as sex objects. You also imply that because you choose not to indulge in the physical aspects of relationships that you are better because as you say "This is the 21st century and we are civilized and evolved begins. Sex should begin to have a diminished role but unfortunately it doesn't."

Firstly, if you bothered to get to know me you would find that while I am not exactly deep, I am far from shallow. Also, I do not treat women as sex objects. I have 4 sisters who I respect and love very much. I also have a girlfriend who I also respect and love very much and they will all attest to the fact that I do not treat women as sex objects. And they also accept the fact that I like to look at beautiful women - to admir ethem for their beauty, nothing else.

Secondly, as long as the human race exists, sex will not play a diminished role. Yes people should be able to control their sexual urges and I think most people do, but sex is a normal part of human existence and is an integral part of the survival of the species.

Now I know the arguments about humans evolving to a higher plane etc. but as we have not done that yet, sex is still a real and integral part of the human makeup.

Your choice to be aesthete is admirable and I applaud you. Don't look down on others who do not share in your endeavour.

Guns don't kill people, I kill people

ninja turtle
04-03-2001, 07:07 AM
So, certain desires are ok- as long as they are neccesary to life.
It's just a natural feeling for me to desire sex from a beautiful/attractive woman. I'm not saying it is a primary objective- but the thought arises.
I can curb that desire, but not eliminate it(as of yet).
Isn't it a "goal", on the path to enlightenment, to have no desires- or does that familiar thought flash in the minds of enlightened ones, as well?
Thanks for the replies.

04-03-2001, 01:12 PM
Ninja Turtle,

I think the point that Braden made was that it is attachment that you should get rid of. It is normal to have desires, but once you satisfy that desire you should not be attached to it (the satisfaction I think).

For example, yes it is normal to desire a beautiful woman. But don't become attached to the idea of having a beautiful woman, or having sex with a beautiful woman. Indulge your desires if they arise (within reason of course) but don't become too attached to the indulgence.

Once you achieve no attachment, then desire becomes a non-issue. You take what comes your way (so to speak) and you are content with that because you have no attachment. You may have desires but if you don't get them it is not a problem because there is no attachment.

I think this is what is meant by no attachment. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I'm certainly no expert in this field :)

Guns don't kill people, I kill people

04-04-2001, 12:12 AM
I copy-pastied the following from: (I may find some more that could help out)



If we contemplate desires and listen to them, we are actually no longer attaching to them; we are just allowing them to be the way they are. Then we come to the realisation that the origin of suffering, desire, can be laid aside and let go of.

How do you let go of things? This means you leave them as they are; it does not mean you annihilate them or throw them away. It is more like setting down and letting them be. Through the practice of letting go we realise that there is the origin of suffering, which is the attachment to desire, and we realise that we should let go of these three kinds of desire. Then we realise that we have let go of these desires; there is no longer any attachment to them.

When you find yourself attached, remember that 'letting go' is not 'getting rid of' or 'throwing away'. If I'm holding onto this clock and you say, 'Let go of it!', that doesn't mean 'throw it out'. I might think that I have to throw it away because I'm attached to it, but that would just be the desire to get rid of it. We tend to think that getting rid of the object is a way of getting rid of attachment. But if I can contemplate attachment, this grasping of the clock, I realise that there is no point in getting rid of it - it's a good clock; it keeps good time and is not heavy to carry around. The clock is not the problem. The problem is grasping the clock. So what do I do? Let it go, lay it aside - put it down gently without any kind of aversion. Then I can pick it up again, see what time it is and lay it aside when necessary.

You can apply this insight into 'letting go' to the desire for sense pleasures. Maybe you want to have a lot of fun. How would you lay aside that desire without any aversion? Simply recognise the desire without judging it. You can contemplate wanting to get rid of it - because you feel guilty about having such a foolish desire - but just lay it aside. Then, when you see it as it is, recognising that it's just desire, you are no longer attached to it.

So the way is always working with the moments of daily life. When you are feeling depressed and negative, just the moment that you refuse to indulge in that feeling is an enlightenment experience. When you see that, you need not sink into the sea of depression and despair and wallow in it. You can actually stop by learning not to give things a second thought.

You have to find this out through practice so that you will know for yourself how to let go of the origin of suffering. Can you let go of desire by wanting to let go of it? What is it that is really letting go in a given moment? You have to contemplate the experience of letting go and really examine and investigate until the insight comes. Keep with it until that insight comes: 'Ah, letting go, yes, now I understand. Desire is being let go of.' This does not mean that you are going to let go of desire forever but, at that one moment, you actually have let go and you have done it in full conscious awareness. There is an insight then. This is what we call insight knowledge. In Pali, we call it nanadassana or profound understanding.

I had my first insight into letting go in my first year of meditation. I figured out intellectually that you had to let go of everything and then I thought: 'How do you let go?' It seemed impossible to let go of anything. I kept on contemplating: 'How do you let go?' Then I would say, 'You let go by letting go.' 'Well then, let go!' Then I would say:

'But have I let go yet?' and, 'How do you let go?' 'Well just let go!' I went on like that, getting more frustrated. But eventually it became obvious what was happening. If you try to analyse letting go in detail, you get caught up in making it very complicated. It was not something that you could figure out in words any more, but something you actually did. So I just let go for a moment, just like that.

Now with personal problems and obsessions, to let go of them is just that much. It is not a matter of analysing and endlessly making more of a problem about them, but of practising that state of leaving things alone, letting go of them. At first, you let go but then you pick them up again because the habit of grasping is so strong. But at least you have the idea. Even when I had that insight into letting go, I let go for a moment but then I started grasping by thinking: 'I can't do it, I have so many bad habits!' But don't trust that kind of nagging, disparaging thing in yourself. It is totally untrustworthy. It is just a matter of practising letting go. The more you begin to see how to do it, then the more you are able to sustain the state of non-attachment.

04-04-2001, 12:44 AM
o - yes.

04-04-2001, 01:05 AM
Are you a fruitcake? No offense if you are but its annoying when people won't admit it to themselves....!!!!

"If you are talking about sport that is one thing. But when you are talking about combat-as it is-well then, baby, you'd better train every part of your body" - Bruce Lee

Celestial Amiboshi
04-04-2001, 01:11 AM
ABandit, I apologize for offending you. I shouldn't have made any assumptions about you at all. Even though I have faith in my own beliefs, I tend to get defensive about at times, especially when people like Fu-Pow begin to insult me.

"Love is something which is never meant to last. It is but a flower that blooms and then withers away."

Celestial Amiboshi
04-04-2001, 01:17 AM
I'll be brief,

No, I'm not a "fruitcake", as you so eloquently put it. I consider myself to be a refined and elegant individual who simply doesn't care about sex. For me, it is so banal and overrated that I want nothing to do with it. It's merely a primitive physical desire and I refuse to be dominated by those kinds of desires which are not necessary to my survival. Anyway, I simply find it more fulfulling to connect with a woman on a purely cerebral level. Please note, I'm not looking down upon anyone. I am merely expressing my views.

"Love is something which is never meant to last. It is but a flower that blooms and then withers away."

04-04-2001, 01:59 AM
No problems. Sorry I got so worked up :)

Guns don't kill people, I kill people

04-04-2001, 02:04 AM
Nice one o.

I think I have had a 'letting go' experience too. It was after a nasty breakup with my last GF. She had been cheating on me and it devastated me to find this out. I had hit rock bottom (for me that is :)).

I was travelling to work one morning shortly after it all happened, when suddenly I realised that it really didn't matter. I didn't need her and I could be quite happy on my own. Suddenly everything literally looked brighter and very beautiful, and I had the most wonderful sensation of being light and 'released'.

Since that experience, I have been a different person. A lot of the things I held to be so important are no longer important, and some of the things that I had relegated to 2nd or 3rd place were now the most important things in my life. And it has changed the way I approach relationships and I feel that I am better for it.

I am still a bit of a control freak, but that is something else I am trying to let go of :)

Guns don't kill people, I kill people

04-04-2001, 11:21 AM
Ok, so I have a couple of questions.

When you say

"I refuse to be dominated by those kinds of desires which are not necessary to my survival"

You could argue that in the sense that your off spring are your cells (and somenone else's also) then you are in a sense pursuing survival through your children, at least on a molecular or biological level. Hence sex is necessary to your survival.

Secondly, letting go or having no attachmnen, do you not have to desire to let go or desire to have no attachment in the first place before setting on the path to enlightenment? Isn't it a paradox?

I'd be quite interested in any one's response to this. I am not trying to attack what you are saying just curious.


04-04-2001, 11:48 AM
Alot of people DO have the attachment to having no attachment. They becoming obsessed with this whole thing - and this is unhealthy. In fact, alot of people proclaiming themselves spiritual leaders are exactly like this. However, most people that encounter this pitfall are those that confuse desire and attachment - as allready discussed in this thread (which is the vast majority of people anyway).

It isn't inherently a paradox. While contemplation plays an important role in this kind of development, it is essentially an experiential process. You don't wake up one day and say "Man, I'm going to try really hard not to have any attachments today." (well, you might, and this might even be an important step in your development, but this isn't going to be how it is when you finally actually do it) When your spirit understands the difference between desire and attachment, and truly wishes to have none of the latter (whether it was guided by your mind or not), it will simply act appropriately.

Buddhist writings have alot to say about this explicitly. Taoist writings have alot to say about it implicitly. If discussion from the Buddhist perspective is making you think it's too deliberate to be anything but a paradox, you might want to investigate some Taoist methods.

04-05-2001, 04:46 PM
Thanks, but what about the first part of my post (refers to procreation)?

04-05-2001, 06:40 PM
Sounds like a fruit cake to me.

"If you are talking about sport that is one thing. But when you are talking about combat-as it is-well then, baby, you'd better train every part of your body" - Bruce Lee

04-05-2001, 08:23 PM
tanglangman - I didn't comment on that part because I didn't think it was directed at me. I haven't said anything about sex on this thread.

ninja turtle
04-05-2001, 11:31 PM
O, your expression of this subject was the most comprehensive I have read; very straightforward, and very minimalistic.
It seems my attempt at no desires is impossible (if I am to go by your examples/descriptions)- and what I was really trying to attain was a lack of attachment, which I couldn't, because I already reached that,(how does one go to where they already are?) but I didn't know it until I really examined that aspect of "myself".
Thank you all for your input, it is appreciated.

Morrigan- what is it like in that part of Brazil? Do you study Capoeira, by any chance? Would you like some chocolate cake?

04-08-2001, 02:57 PM
My apologies, it wasn't directed at you I thought that Celestial Amiboshi had replied,that'll teach me for not paying attention to whose writing the replies. Has anybody seen my glasses?

04-09-2001, 05:25 AM
There is nothing wrong with having sex.. its how you persue it.. alot of people go around and sleep with many many differnt women because they desire this.. now obviously this is bad.. but if you find one person who you love and tend to spend the rest of your life with there is nothing wrong with having sex and having children.. this is all a mental thing.. when you spend alot of time with one person you become more comfortable with them and you become one with them.. there is nothing wrong with this but.. if you go around sleeping with differnt girls.. you can never feel settled down and subconsciously this will have a negitive effect..

04-09-2001, 09:14 PM
"Morrigan- what is it like in that part of Brazil?"
You mean São Paulo? It's a huge chaotic polluted city full of restaurants, poverty, power and arts. A mix of New York with Ciudad del Mexico. I love it.

"Do you study Capoeira, by any chance?"
No! Brazil has over 170 million people! Why do foreigners always believe all of us practice either capoeira or J. Jitsu? I like neither, although capoeira presentations are worth watching.
And if you say "carnival", "soccer", or "gorgeous women" consider yourself cursed. :p

"Would you like some chocolate cake?"
Mmm. Nope. Had some with my boyfriend yesterday. With plenty of chocolate.

ninja turtle
04-10-2001, 05:23 AM
That ammount of pollution is unfortunate, not to mention the other sociologically related ailments. I hope you visit your countryside as often as possible.......
I wasn't assuming you did study Capoiera- just asking IF you did. Because IF you did I would ask you more questions about it- but, nevermind.
Carnival? Soccer? Georgeous women? I guess I'm curse-free..... except Georgeous women are key:)

I'm happy to see a sense of humor on this board!
If you change your mind, Morrigan, I've been told I make an excellent Vegan chocolate cake(w/ extra frosting) :)

04-10-2001, 01:59 PM
Where do you live?

Oh, ok. You can ask me something about capoeira, I may know a thing or two.

ninja turtle
04-24-2001, 04:43 AM
I live in connecticut, usa. There are good places here, and there are very bad places here.
It's kind of like a part of New York that spilled over.
Are there any hand strikes or grappling/jointlocks in capoiera? Are the flashy flips and kicks accurate? Or are you just trying to hit whatever you can?
If someone were to grab one of your legs/feet while you were kicking and flipping/spinning-are there techniques taught so you can retaliate or compensate for their action, so as not to be dropped on your head?
Is capoiera taught with the martial aspect in mind, or is it more like most Tai Chi in america- just a pretty workout?

04-28-2001, 03:53 AM
To deny yourself of your desires is to no longer be human.


05-07-2001, 04:41 AM
In The Ninja and their Secret Fighting Art, by Stephen K Hayes, Masaaki Hatsumi tells Hayes that "The best procedure is to openly and honestly examine those things we think we want, and those things we think we wish to avoid."

I have derived from this statement, and my own experience, that maybe we don't want as much as we think we do. Maybe we want objects because others tell us that we want them.

Then I start to ask myself if I am hungry just because everyone else around me is eating.

Ask yourself if you really want an item, or are others just forcing the desire upon you.

05-16-2001, 06:54 AM
Buddha taught us to love our bodies as it is a grain of sand on all the beaches of the world that we have had the chance to re-incarnate as a human being. For the intelligence we have been given can be used fruitfully to train in gaining enlightenement, and the constant reminders of the suffering of the world is two fold in that it reminds us of the suffering of the cycle of life and also becomes a chance to withdraw and remove all seeded bad kammas...

So you will need to eat and you will need to sleep, you will need to drink but when you drink, drink and when you eat, eat and when you sleep, sleep.

I have not perfected any of these, but I hope to achieve it as you do. There is one desire that is safe, the desire to achieve perfect awareness.

What is occupying that corpse you call 'I' ?

05-18-2001, 08:11 AM
About your three words....."soccer" is one of the best words! ;)
Shiesh, from Brazil came the best soccer player of all times("was, is, and always will be")! :) and I'm sure I dont even need to say his name...

07-25-2001, 08:27 PM
This discussion is old I would like to bring it back to light to respond to a few comments.

One. Prana, you said that the desire to have perfect awareness is safe, but it is an illusion to think that having the desire to have perfect awareness will ever bring perfect awareness. In fact, you can't be aware, while you are contemplating how much you desire to be aware. Awareness is a by-product of the practices of cultivating awareness, not analyzing its properties. Hence, let go of the attachment of the need to have perfect awareness and continue your meditations and your awareness will be evidence enough.

If you are using the desire to have perfect awareness as a fueling for your meditation then you are missing out on some of the primary reasons for meditating. Your call though.

Another. Desire is not a bad thing, it just induces suffering as said before. You will never suffer in life if you have no desires, but you will never see clearly either.

Imagine this.. If the buddha did not have the desire to see peoples suffering diminish, would he have shared his teachings at all?

Did he suffer from his desires to see people be well? Of course he did!! That is the primary reason he discovered the 'Way' of enlightenment, not for the sake of having "complete awareness."

Sorry prana, I don't mean to come down on what you said, I would just hope people don't get the 'wrong' idea from it.

- Nexus

Freedom is what you do with what is done to you. - Sartres

Scott R. Brown
07-25-2001, 10:04 PM
Some very good points Nexus.

It is important to remember that the Buddha taught almost 2500 years ago in another culture and in another language. He has been interpreted, re-interpreted, translated and re-translated since he first spoke. When we read the word “Desire” in our language it means something different to us than the Buddha had intended. It is not desire that we are to avoid. Desire is merely wanting something and in some cases, wanting something real bad. Anytime you are thirsty and want a glass of water you desire, but this is not the desire Buddha was talking about. It is when you have an emotional attachment to the object of your desire that it becomes suffering. If I do not get my glass of water I am not emotionally suffering. I may be suffering physically, but Buddha was not addressing physical suffering he was addressing emotional suffering.

I will use an example from my own recent experiences to illustrate the point. My wife left me about 5 months ago. Quite naturally I was upset. I suffered. I introspected into my mind and in an attempt to discover the source of my suffering. When a person’s spouse leaves them the most common source of suffering is due to the feeling of rejection. The person has a “need” for approval from their spouse to make them feel worthwhile, significant as a person. When their spouse leaves them it causes suffering because they think, “I am not worthwhile, I am not valuable as a person, I am unlovable”. This was not the case for me. I am pretty centered in my self-identity. I did not feel a sense of rejection because I did not rely on my wife to validate my identity. I introspected my mind to determine why I was upset. My suffering was caused by an attitude I had about divorce. My parents divorced when I was 15 years old, neither of them were capable of behaving in an appropriate manner. The divorce and their behavior caused problems for my siblings and myself. I developed a goal (desire) that I would never get a divorce. My attitude of not wanting a divorce no matter what was in direct conflict with my reality. This caused my suffering. In other words, I wanted something I could not have. I had an emotional attachment to my desire. What I needed to do to alleviate my suffering was to change my perspective, attitude about marriage and divorce. I released my unrealistic expectation about divorce and marriage and my suffering disappeared.

When you want something you cannot have and this desire has the attitude of, “I cannot or will not be happy unless I have my desire”, you suffer. I still have my desire to not get a divorce. I just do not have an emotional attachment to whether it occurs or not. If we did not have goals and aspirations in life we would not have much of a life. Any time you want anything it is a desire. Do not attach your happiness to the attainment of the goal. It is the “process” of attainment that is the value of life not the attainment itself. Any goal attained merely reveals other goals to attain. Any time we put undo emotional attachment to attaining a goal we lose the true meaning of life and actually slow down the process of growth. You cannot go out to your garden and make it grow, You have to plant the seed, water, weed and be patient, plants grow according to their nature. You tend the garden (your mind- thoughts and attitudes) and growth will come of its own accord.



07-26-2001, 03:12 AM
I havent read Scotts response, but I appreciate what you have said Nexus.

Desire is a hindrance to ultimate awareness. Just to clarify that I have not passed this information otherwise differently, awareness, where I use the word, is the returning of the mind to the absolute present, not a second in the future nor a second in the past.

Perhaps I should have mentioned, since in my own personal mind, the times of the day whereby my mind is in the total present, in awareness is 0.000001% on average if not less....(not mathemitically determined I might add), I therefore use the "desire" of awareness to attain this awareness... :) But ultimately, when my mind is in the present, I do not see the desire or can be attached to this desire. This is simply the nature of the mind (perhaps my mind), to attain awareness, one must first drop the desire, else the mind is not in the absolute present.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Imagine this.. If the buddha did not have the desire to see peoples suffering diminish, would he have shared his teachings at all?
Did he suffer from his desires to see people be well? Of course he did!! That is the primary reason he discovered the 'Way' of enlightenment, not for the sake of having "complete awareness."

First of all, regarding this, I shall not speak on behalf of Lord Gautama. I havent been taught otherwise apart from, attaining total awareness, total equanimity and enlightenment for the benefit of all beings. Also, been taught, it is naive to save another being whilst both are drowning in the same illusion. In order to save one being, you must first attain the wisdom mind for yourself, same reason. I might even go as far as saying this be the reason Lord Gautama chose the solitary life to sit in meditation, and also the reasons many sanghas leave loved ones in search for a higher calling for the benefit of other beings... but first they have to find their own. (another case in point, of BodhiDharma, 7 years in fron of a wall. This is the Boddhisattva vow... you are accurate in that Buddha attains englightenment for the benefit of all, and without a hint for oneself.

I sure do hope others are not mis-led by the use of my careless and poor words.

Recognise the vivid blue lights of Lord Vairochana.
Recognise the blinding white lights of Lord Aksobhya.
Recognise the brilliant yellow lights of Lord Ratnasambhava.
Recognise the fiery red lights of Lord Amithaba.
Recognise the pure green lights of Lord Amoghasiddhi.

08-10-2001, 01:33 PM
I have very few desires. With out the help of meditation or qiqong (spent alot of time in my room grounded, i.e. solitary confinment). My ex-girlfriends would tell you that I'm lazy and a slacker. My friends would say that I'm WAY too "laid back". But why fight the flow? I think it first hit me when I was 12-13 and I found my dad's copy of the I Ching.

08-11-2001, 05:22 PM
I just want to quickly point out that being "lazy" or a "slacker" is most certainly NOT evidence of having no desires. In fact it is precisely the opposite -- you have the extreme desire to do nothing at all. That is still a desire, and in some ways, one of the worst to fall victim to.

"You are never dedicated to something you have complete confidence in. No one is fanatically shouting that the sun is going to rise tomorrow. They KNOW it's going to rise tomorrow. When people are fanatically dedicated to political or religious faiths or any other kinds of dogmas or goals, it's always because these dogmas or goals are in doubt."
- Robert M. Pirsig in "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"

Repulsive Monkey
08-15-2001, 11:20 AM
desiring is ego-based is of course a natural facet of the human and it's nature to the point of everyday concious thinking. But it is said that that the primordial mind is without desiring and therefore to become natural in one's existence one can do without desiring in order to function,grow and enlighten. Now these thongs sound nice and all, but it's **** difficult to abstain, because by its nature itself deciding to not-desire is a desire itself. That's why Prof. Cheng Man-ching's addage of "..Invest in loss" is so practical.Don't desire to lose out in life as much as not to gain in life, tread the middle path. But if all else fails then there is always comfort int he words of the 16 th century Taoist Huanchu Daoren in his "Root Vegetable talks" when he says" Desires do not hurt the mind as much as opinions do...", travel safe now!!!