hahahaha you live in a police state nyah nyah nyah...

[David Jamieson]

http://www.privacyinternational.org/article.shtml?cmd%5B347%5D=x-347-559597

[1bad65]

I don't put alot of stock in that. North Korea and Cuba were not even rated! I saw NONE of the Arabic countries were either, yet Israel was considered a 'systematic failure'.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

In Chicagoland, there are SUBURBS with cameras at intersections....and then people wonder why I want to move to the Caymens, or Venezuela or some other such place under the radar of oppression.....

[Black Jack II]

The number one, king daddy pimp, of all Nanny states is the U.K. Totally absurd what these serfs have to put up with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvWgeVUqlII&feature=related

[David Jamieson]

I dunno, chinas pretty bad. neighbours rat out neighbours, life is cheap and so on. It's a disgrace in a lot of respects.

Britain has a lot of intrusive tech, but the people have a little solidarity unlike the horror stories that come out of china. It seems a little more "constant" there.

[bakxierboxer]

http://www.privacyinternational.org/article.shtml?cmd%5B347%5D=x-347-559597

One such "force" would be...... George Soros.
(I'm a little surprised that Mas Judt hasn't indicated that Soros is trying to co-opt his "DTA"
"comic")

[David Jamieson]

so you have a beef with Soros?

as billionaires go, he is not that bad in my opinion. Not that billionaires are bad, they're just billionaires, but Soros does a lot of good stuff with his kizash.

[1bad65]

One such "force" would be...... George Soros.

Well that explains it now. No wonder all the 'Western' countries were rated badly, yet many dictatorships and police states were 'not rated'.

[David Jamieson]

I think it's a question of access to data. grey is grey. Plus, i think pretty much all of the former soviet union is covered and so on with those countries that cannot afford to take measures obviously left out (i.e most of africa)

[1bad65]

Dude, its common knowledge that police states/dictatorships like Cuba and North Korea not only have secret police, but they reward individuals for reporting neighbors/family/friends for being 'subversive'. If the site can't say they rank badly in a 'Privacy Ranking' it's either full of sh1t or extremely biased, take your pick.

[Mr Punch]

The number one, king daddy pimp, of all Nanny states is the U.K. Totally absurd what these serfs have to put up with...You keep coming out with this as if repeating it makes it any more real. If you believe it there's no hope for you. Of course, if you're just doing it to wind 'us serfs' up, fair play! :D

Otherwise you might want to think about China, Saudi, Egypt (let's face it, pretty much anywhere in the Islamic world), Singapore (I think that's the top dog nanny state among the developed world personally), Malaysia, Japan, South Korea, er - the whole of Africa except possibly South Africa, etc etc... of course not mentioning communist-wannabe states like N Korea and Cuba...

And yet you still keep bickering and sneering at your allies. Sniveller! :eek: :D So let's go over what you've got to be proud of... like the original post! :p

And as we've been over before, we know we're ****ed and we've been fighting it since the Magna Carta! For you, you lot are just going blindly into these privacy infringements like the sheep you are... actually believing Hilary, Obama, or any of the new republican fruitocrats is actually gonna be any different to Bush this time... :D LOL, rather be a knowing serf than a lubed sheep, still bleating about notions of freedom that may have held true when the constitution was written but has been constantly eroded since. Republic? Haha!

I think we need more of these:
:D
:D
:D

[Jeffoo]

so you have a beef with Soros?

as billionaires go, he is not that bad in my opinion. Not that billionaires are bad, they're just billionaires, but Soros does a lot of good stuff with his kizash.

EVERYTHING Soros stands for furthers the nanny state agenda. Look at who he donates to, the causes he supports.

[David Jamieson]

Dude, its common knowledge that police states/dictatorships like Cuba and North Korea not only have secret police, but they reward individuals for reporting neighbors/family/friends for being 'subversive'. If the site can't say they rank badly in a 'Privacy Ranking' it's either full of sh1t or extremely biased, take your pick.

Like I said, I think it's a matter of access. Both North and South Korea are unmarked and in fact, many countries are unmarked. however, if you would take the two minutes to read the accompanying tables and lit that goes with the map, perhaps you will gain further understanding?

There's a lot of grey. That doesn't excuse the sea of black you're sitting in. :-)

[SPJ]

China and taiwan are alright on a personal level, if you know your way around.

however, singapore would be very bad as far as personal privacy goes.

however, any group activities are highly monitored in China and Taiwan.

--

safety comes with a price of losing privacy.

--

where to strike the delicate balance.

--

:eek::confused::D;)

[1bad65]

Like I said, I think it's a matter of access.
There's a lot of grey. That doesn't excuse the sea of black you're sitting in. :-)

No, it's a matter of personal bias. Period. Considering the source that put my country in black, it doesn't bother me at all.

[1bad65]

EVERYTHING Soros stands for furthers the nanny state agenda. Look at who he donates to, the causes he supports.

Exactly. It's always baffled me why some ultra-rich people support socialism. They are always the first people forced to 'contribute' their wealth to the State when the socialist policies they wanted are enacted.

[bakxierboxer]

so you have a beef with Soros?

as billionaires go, he is not that bad in my opinion. Not that billionaires are bad, they're just billionaires, but Soros does a lot of good stuff with his kizash.

"A beef"?
Too many to mention, let alone count.
The guy is absolute unprincipled unscrupulous scum.... and acquired his wealth that way, too. Furthermore, he uses said wealth to subvert the system which he used and abused to make himself wealthy.

[bakxierboxer]

Exactly. It's always baffled me why some ultra-rich people support socialism. They are always the first people forced to 'contribute' their wealth to the State when the socialist policies they wanted are enacted.

I dunno.... it seems that there are "an awful lot" of "plutocrats" in what were usually considered to be communist and socialist countries.

They probably figure that if they help to bring about their "preferred order" that they'll be allowed to keep their ill-gotten gains.... it's even possible that they've purchased "insurance" for that.

[banditshaw]

rather be a knowing serf than a lubed sheep, still bleating about notions of freedom that may have held true when the constitution was written but has been constantly eroded since.


Does that mean Bush is secretly a Scotsman:eek:
:D

[1bad65]

One is known by the company one keeps. From Wikipedia:

'Soros worked briefly for the Jewish Council, which had been established by the Nazis, to deliver messages to Jewish lawyers being called for deportation. Soros claims he was not aware of the consequence of the messages.'

I guess Nazi Germany would have been colored grey too.

[Black Jack II]

Not to use to much hyperbole, but George Soros is the Dark Lord Sith of those that hate America within its own borders. Guy is the biggest far left turd on the planet.

As for Britian......call it what you will....but what these very hardworking, smart, kick a$$ people are handing over for the illusion of safety is really sad.

[Mr Punch]

Ah ****, nobody bit! :( ;)

Soros is a twat though, and that map doesn't really mean anything.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Not to use to much hyperbole, but George Soros is the Dark Lord Sith of those that hate America within its own borders. Guy is the biggest far left turd on the planet.

As for Britian......call it what you will....but what these very hardworking, smart, kick a$$ people are handing over for the illusion of safety is really sad.

No need to insult the Sith.

[Mr Punch]

No need to insult the Sith.I think he got the letters in the wrong order... Soros is more like the Golgothan.

[David Jamieson]

No, it's a matter of personal bias. Period. Considering the source that put my country in black, it doesn't bother me at all.

mmm hmm. say, did you know that yesterday a school in buffalo went into lockdown because a student lipped off to a teacher whic was then presented as threats and tehn 3 students were arrested because the principle decided he was gonna have a zero tolerance policy and that was that.

so, now in america, if you are a student you are being conditioned to accept confinement through lockdowns (a prison term) and as well you can get arrested and detained for talking ****.

watch your mouth america or you'll wind up in a federally funded camp.

nit picking on the things that bug you doesn't speak to the situation at all. YOu are simply sliding into a state of martial law that may or may not end with civil disorder and underground resistance groups etc etc. Laugh if you will, but lets talk about it in ten years, if you are able.

[1bad65]

The point on the schools is moot. The student lipped off to the teacher. He was not turned in by family or friends or caught by the secret police. That's the difference. The Soros map supposedly measures privacy right?

In 10 years it may well be worse here. Especially if we elect enough Democrats to pass socialist policies like Socialized Medicine. Notice how in all the western countries with that (like Canada and UK) it's not working and most of the people hate it. Yet the socialists here are so certain it will work here. :eek:

[sanjuro_ronin]

In 10 years it may well be worse here. Especially if we elect enough Democrats to pass socialist policies like Socialized Medicine. Notice how in all the western countries with that (like Canada and UK) it's not working and most of the people hate it. Yet the socialists here are so certain it will work here. :eek:


ROTFLMAO !!!

[1bad65]

Where do rich Canadiens go when they get sick?

The U.S.! :D

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Exactly. It's always baffled me why some ultra-rich people support socialism. They are always the first people forced to 'contribute' their wealth to the State when the socialist policies they wanted are enacted.


Reply]
The really Ultra rich don't pay taxes. all thier companies are held off shore by other smaller companies in countries that allow corporations to be considered the same as personal identities....so the US does not know about their true wealth, and couldn't even if they wanted to due to jurisdictional restrictions once you cross into another sovirgne nation.

[Eddie]

I live in South Africa.

I wouldnt mind if they had CCTV cameras up all over, if it means it will help combat crime. Our lives are constantly under threat of crime. Life is pretty worthless down here, and criminals seems to have the upperhand.

Giving up a little privacy isnt as bad as living in fear.

[1bad65]

Giving up a little privacy isnt as bad as living in fear.

'They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security.'
-Ben Franklin

[Black Jack II]

The really Ultra rich don't pay taxes.

Dude, yes they do. In fact they pay a massive amount.

[1bad65]

The really Ultra rich don't pay taxes. all thier companies are held off shore by other smaller companies in countries that allow corporations to be considered the same as personal identities....so the US does not know about their true wealth, and couldn't even if they wanted to due to jurisdictional restrictions once you cross into another sovirgne nation.

Oh God, more drivel from you. Your ignorance is amazing and only matched by your desire to roll it out for all to see.

For calendar year 2003, according to the IRS, the top 1% of wage earners paid 34.27% of the income taxes in the US.

Yeah, those ultra-rich are real good at not paying taxes. :rolleyes: Idiot.

[David Jamieson]

'They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security.'
-Ben Franklin

guy, you realize we don't live in anything close to the same era as these guys right?

those terms and phrases were used when people were few. Now there are literally hordes of criminals.

for instance:

1.3% of americans have used heroin.

doesn't sound like much until you point out that that is 3,333,000 people! That's more people than some countries have!

there are 300 million people in america (roughly)
You don't even want to know how many million are in prison.
recidivisim rates are super high, way over 60% in most cases.

ben Franklin never had to live in crap times like these and so, like many quotes from days of yore, has become quite obsolete.

revision, improvement and progress are the way forward. yes it's good to know your past, but conversely it is terible to dwell in it.

don't be a walking anachronism, get with the times and recognize!

ps, this applies to kungfu too! :p

[1bad65]

The Founding Fathers were some of the greatest men to ever live. They actually turned down power offered them after the Revolution.

As to drugs, the easy way to get rid of the problems it causes society is to legalize it. Once you legalize ANYTHING the first thing that happens is a price drop. Addictive things like tobacco and alcohol are legal, and we don't have people robbing people to pay for a nicotine addiction. The Founding Fathers were very much into personal choice. As it's your body, I feel the State has no business telling you what you can put into it in your own house.

[bakxierboxer]

guy, you realize we don't live in anything close to the same era as these guys right?

With quite a bit more in the way of creature comforts and "services" (wanted, or not)


those terms and phrases were used when people were few. Now there are literally hordes of criminals.

Quite a change from those halcyon days of yore when the English Crown used "the Colonies" as their dumping grounds for "criminals".... pretty much what we might call "nonconformists" these days.....


for instance:

1.3% of americans have used heroin.

doesn't sound like much until you point out that that is 3,333,000 people! That's more people than some countries have!

there are 300 million people in america (roughly)

?????
300,000,000 x .03 = 9,000,000 in these Yet-To-Be-Socialist United States.... although "folks" like Soros are "working on it".
(and scores on math tests seem to be in somewhat of a downward spiral from the degree of socialist "policy" so-far implemented within out "Education System")


You don't even want to know how many million are in prison.
recidivisim rates are super high, way over 60% in most cases.

True... and they cost 'way too much for the results we've been getting.....
"there oughtta be a law" of some kind or other that limits the amount of taxpayer dollars we/they-'re allowed to waste on criminal scum before we "remediate" the matter by shortening their terms of incarceration in some way that is "reasonably final".


ben Franklin never had to live in crap times like these and so, like many quotes from days of yore, has become quite obsolete.

Yup, them wooden teeth were clearly wonders of dental science, and antibiotics were..... yet to be invented? (along with scads of "other stuff")


revision, improvement and progress are the way forward....

And we've enjoyed a notable amount of it.... why stop now?


yes it's good to know your past, but conversely it is terible to dwell in it.


Remembering it for purposes of comparison isn't all that bad an idea.....


don't be a walking anachronism, get with the times and recognize!

ah.... you're "out of order" yourself..... although you're rather clearly just sitting there typing. :cool: :D

[bakxierboxer]

The Founding Fathers were some of the greatest men to ever live. They actually turned down power offered them after the Revolution.
.... and they weren't real big on any form of taxation.


As to drugs, the easy way to get rid of the problems it causes society is to legalize it. Once you legalize ANYTHING the first thing that happens is a price drop. Addictive things like tobacco and alcohol are legal, and we don't have people robbing people to pay for a nicotine addiction.....

IIRC, there is a bit of cigarette "smuggling" on an interstate basis...... simply to avoid some of the worst State-imposed tobacco-taxes...... and, where there's smoke/smuggling, there's bound to be some profit-motivated criminal enterprise involved.

[Mr Punch]

1.3% of americans have used heroin.

doesn't sound like much until you point out that that is 3,333,000 people! That's more people than some countries have!...

ben Franklin never had to live in crap times like these and so, like many quotes from days of yore, has become quite obsolete.

revision, improvement and progress are the way forward. yes it's good to know your past, but conversely it is terible to dwell in it.You ****ers are making me agree with Jamieson now... the baby Jesus is crying! :mad:


The Founding Fathers were some of the greatest men to ever live. They actually turned down power offered them after the Revolution.And so what? Where are they now? (Which I think was David's point.)


As to drugs, the easy way to get rid of the problems it causes society is to legalize it. Once you legalize ANYTHING the first thing that happens is a price drop. Simplistic nonsense. Amsterdam anyone? Their social experiment seems to be biting them in the ass, and they are now considering legislating against it again. What happens when you get a price drop in drugs is...? Anyone? That's it! The poor dispossessed people and the crims who take them and supply them... keep taking them and supplying them! So, more crims and drug addicts, with cheaper drugs: more crime, more violence, more dispossession, less chance at a slice of the pie that Libertarians are so fond of saying everyone gets a chance at... less chance of ever knowing what a basic action-reaction-responsibility relationship is like. Don't get me wrong, maybe legalisation is a part of the solution. But as I said, it isn't that simple.
Addictive things like tobacco and alcohol are legal, and we don't have people robbing people to pay for a nicotine addiction. Historically rather different.


The Founding Fathers were very much into personal choice.Again, they never met a crack-head... what was that about living in the past and avoiding the real issues?
As it's your body, I feel the State has no business telling you what you can put into it in your own house.Again, simplistic, but I basically agree. The problem with this idea is that IF the State and therefore the taxpayers are picking up any of the cost in terms of negative chain effects from that drug addiction (paying for the addicts' healthcare, paying for policing the ghettoized areas you're leaving to their own devices, paying for policing of when the addicts stray out of the ghettoized areas and cause trouble elsewhere, paying for public prosecutions and defences, victim support etc etc) the State (and the taxpayers) have a definite right to tell you what not to put in your body. It's our job to make sure the State listens to the taxpayers, and that the taxpayers are well enough informed of the consequences of whatever they want to propose.


Quite a change from those halcyon days of yore when the English Crown used "the Colonies" as their dumping grounds for "criminals".... pretty much what we might call "nonconformists" these days...The British didn't dump so many criminals in the US if I remember correctly, so I don't know where this fits in to the argument. We did dump fundamentalist religious fanatics, a bunch of idealists who thought you could create a free state without paying taxes (yeah - I suppose you could call them criminals, or just simplistic) and a whole load of slaves to set you lot up and give you the riches and access to resources that enabled you to turn round and tell us to **** off, while at the same time you could afford to not empower any of the people who'd worked for you to get you into that position (er, already a bit like the British Empire right?)... but nice try!

(****, that's got to get some bites...!)



?????
300,000,000 x .03 = 9,000,000 in these Yet-To-Be-Socialist United States.... although "folks" like Soros are "working on it".
(and scores on math tests seem to be in somewhat of a downward spiral from the degree of socialist "policy" so-far implemented within out "Education System")
LOL 300,000,000 x .03 = 9,000,000... If you paid for that education system I'd ask for a refund if I were you! :D :p

The sum for 1.3% of 300,000,000 is:
300,000,000 x 0.013 = 3,900,000...
.3% is x .003 not x .03, but nice try.


.... and they weren't real big on any form of taxation.



IIRC, there is a bit of cigarette "smuggling" on an interstate basis...... simply to avoid some of the worst State-imposed tobacco-taxes...... and, where there's smoke/smuggling, there's bound to be some profit-motivated criminal enterprise involved.Without some taxes there can be not state. Is that what you want? Small state makes sense, no state is anarchy, not liberty. The difference? Liberty comes with responsibility.

[Mr Punch]

(Please note, while the above post is 90% for troll purposes, any valid answers/flames more than welcome in the name of discussion...! We all live in free countries after all! :D )

[1bad65]

About the Revolution and the Founding Fathers: the average taxes on a family pre-Revolution was around 2% of your annual earnings. That was too high for the Founding Fathers. Now its around 50% per family.

And to those who say they did not create such a great nation consider this. Who did better creating a blueprint/Constitution for a Gov't of the people for the people? Lenin? Stalin? Hitler? Marx? Mao? Castro? They all claimed to be 'for the people'. I'd take the Founding Fathers any day.

[1bad65]

The British didn't dump so many criminals in the US if I remember correctly, so I don't know where this fits in to the argument.

They used Australia for that.



We did dump fundamentalist religious fanatics, a bunch of idealists who thought you could create a free state without paying taxes (yeah - I suppose you could call them criminals, or just simplistic)...

And those castoffs created the best country ever in terms of personal freedoms.

[Mr Punch]

About the Revolution and the Founding Fathers: the average taxes on a family pre-Revolution was around 2% of your annual earnings. That was too high for the Founding Fathers. Now its around 50% per family. Really? Is it that high?! ****, your country does suck! (j/k! :D - but that is quite shocking)


And to those who say they did not create such a great nation consider this. Who did better creating a blueprint/Constitution for a Gov't of the people for the people? Lenin? Stalin? Hitler? Marx? Mao? Castro? They all claimed to be 'for the people'. I'd take the Founding Fathers any day.Well, I didn't say your country wasn't great... and I certainly didn't say any of those chumps had better ideas - sounds all too black n white to me again!

But there you are criticising your country (tax and general govt and whatnot) and then when we do the same you give us grief! At least I know my country sucks, and don7t give people too much trouble when they tell me why (provided they're relatively accurate!)

[Mr Punch]

They used Australia for that.Precisely: so it didn't fit into the argument.
And those castoffs created the best country ever in terms of personal freedoms.
Is that the best you've got? Give us reasons as to how this hasn't been completely about-faced over the last two centuries! I mean, again, I think we're lucky to live in UK, Japan, US, Oz or whatever, but we've all got to fight for our freedoms in some ways, and we're kidding ourselves if we're comparing our country to another one we've never lived in, or get secondhand info about.

[Vilmore]

In 10 years it may well be worse here. Especially if we elect enough Democrats to pass socialist policies like Socialized Medicine. Notice how in all the western countries with that (like Canada and UK) it's not working and most of the people hate it. Yet the socialists here are so certain it will work here. :eek:

Are you retarded or do you just wanna sound like it?
Please do rot away in texas with your beloved health care.



On a mathematical note 3% IS x . 0,03 :p

About the map, dont look at the map, read the text below. you'll see there is black and there is black.

[bakxierboxer]

You ****ers are making me agree with Jamieson now... the baby Jesus is crying! :mad:

I sincerely hope I didn't do THAT!


The British didn't dump so many criminals in the US if I remember correctly....

Maybe they just "ran out" too soon?


... so I don't know where this fits in to the argument. We did dump fundamentalist religious fanatics, a bunch of idealists who thought you could create a free state without paying taxes (yeah - I suppose you could call them criminals, or just simplistic)....

Seems like we've still got 'em.


... and a whole load of slaves to set you lot up and give you the riches and access to resources that enabled you to turn round and tell us to **** off, while at the same time you could afford to not empower any of the people who'd worked for you to get you into that position (er, already a bit like the British Empire right?)... but nice try!

"Business as usual....'?


(****, that's got to get some bites...!)

Nah! nowhere near tasty enuff.


LOL 300,000,000 x .03 = 9,000,000... If you paid for that education system I'd ask for a refund if I were you! :D :p

?????
DRAT!
Actually, it was the new eyeglass Rx I didn't pay for....
I read that as "1. 3%", expecting to see another #2. etc
(bite that, or not.... don't care)


Without some taxes there can be not state. Is that what you want? Small state makes sense, no state is anarchy, not liberty. The difference? Liberty comes with responsibility.

No real disagreement with the above.

[1bad65]

Is that the best you've got?

It sure is. So which country is better in relation to personal freedom?

[1bad65]

Please do rot away in texas with your beloved health care.

My health care is fine. You see, I work and get it through there. I don't rely on the State to take care of me. My health care will suck if we get socialized medicine forced on us though.

[Mas Judt]

so you have a beef with Soros?

as billionaires go, he is not that bad in my opinion. Not that billionaires are bad, they're just billionaires, but Soros does a lot of good stuff with his kizash.


This just demonstrates that you are a fool. Soros is a malignant tumor who is everything he claims NOT to be. Sure I like liberty. Sure I like capitalism. But I can't stand bast@rds who short a currency, like oh THE POUND and put an entire country into recession.

Or who advocates higher taxes for me, while hiding his fortune offshore.


What you really need to do, is buy Death to America. It won't make you smarter, but at least it is fun.

[Mas Judt]

While David does not exhibit good critical skills (that report is cr@p), we are facing a steady erosion of liberties.

There is a lot more savage behavior too - and the people who deserve the blame is ourselves.

[1bad65]

Don't ever forget that Soros was a Nazi collaborator either. A true piece of sh1t.

[David Jamieson]

This just demonstrates that you are a fool. Soros is a malignant tumor who is everything he claims NOT to be. Sure I like liberty. Sure I like capitalism. But I can't stand bast@rds who short a currency, like oh THE POUND and put an entire country into recession.

Or who advocates higher taxes for me, while hiding his fortune offshore.


What you really need to do, is buy Death to America. It won't make you smarter, but at least it is fun.

dude, you' catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Nobody taught you anything about marketing. IE: dion't call me a fool and then ask me to by your comic. *******. lol

your opinion on soros is your own, like mine, both of us don't know anything about the guy otherwise besides whatever soundbyte we get thrown at us or some small clip here and there and frankly i don't see you as a serious scholar of the lives of the forbes 500 .

anyway, so who's the fool now fool?

ps, I'm still not buying your comic anymore than you are buying my album :p

[David Jamieson]

Don't ever forget that Soros was a Nazi collaborator either. A true piece of sh1t.

yeah well teh pope was a hitler youth. I hope you're not catholic. :rolleyes:

you guys talk a lot of horse hockey like you have intimate knowledge of george soros who probably didn't have squat to do with the collection or aggregation of the information even though he may have supplied the finances to the people who did collect it and sort it. It's just information. If you don't like the pile of crap your standing in, then feel free to call it a flower bed. :rolleyes:

[Shaolin Wookie]

So who's up for a revolution? Who's coming with me? No guns, no ammo. Just kung fu.



Like in the old days. (BTW, we're going to take down Wal-Mart and McDonalds while we're at it).

[Mas Judt]

David,
We are harsh with you, because of how you come across yourself. It's part of the fun of KFM.

Hey, KFM is like the going to the bar - if you think I'm too hard on you here, and it makes you all angry inside, don't buy the book. It won't hurt mt feelings. Nothing you write hurts my feelings dude.

I'm not really marketing here. I'm telling my comprades in the virtual bar about it because it's cool, and of course it would help if they bought it - but it's no hard marketing effort.

If you ever need to discuss marketing, contact me. My ratemight be a little high for you, but I'll wave the consultation fee. My client list includes several of the top ten brands in the world.

[David Jamieson]

David,
We are harsh with you, because of how you come across yourself. It's part of the fun of KFM.

Hey, KFM is like the going to the bar - if you think I'm too hard on you here, and it makes you all angry inside, don't buy the book. It won't hurt mt feelings. Nothing you write hurts my feelings dude.

I'm not really marketing here. I'm telling my comprades in the virtual bar about it because it's cool, and of course it would help if they bought it - but it's no hard marketing effort.

If you ever need to discuss marketing, contact me. My ratemight be a little high for you, but I'll wave the consultation fee. My client list includes several of the top ten brands in the world.

pass. I can't see myself discussing business with someone whos sells pdfs through a 3rd party (a money loser out the gate!). :rolleyes:

[Merryprankster]

If you take a look at the methodology, the grading of the United States makes sense.

First, this is a study strictly of the right/status of PRIVACY in the United States, in all aspects.

They note that:

There is no explicit right of Privacy in the Constitution

The government has significant powers to surveil and monitor all kinds of communications, and the capability to do so.

The increasing use of and efforts to database biometrics

The increased use of video (and sometimes) audio surveillance equipment in public areas (although sometimes audio equipment can run afoul of wiretapping laws, oddly).

This appears to be where they derive most of their ranking. So it makes sense within the limits of their methodology. This isn't about personal, political, or economic freedoms and rights. It's about privacy.

What it doesn't seem to take into consideration, at least not heavily, are the legal restrictions on those surveillance capabilities, etc. They seem more concerned with the idea that the gubmint CAN and DOES monitor communications, than with the MANNER in which they do it. By way of example, the NSA has pretty much the unfettered ability to target any foreign entity for collection, outside the United States. Inside the United States, and with US persons (NOT citizens, persons - different animal), there are significant legal restrictions on their, methods, means, what the information can be used for, etc.

Oh, and let's not confuse scooping up (ie the COLLECTION of) radio wave or other EM emissions as a "right to privacy," any idiot with the right equipment (say, a radio antaenna) and a way of storing the information (say, a tape to tape reel, if you want to get all primitive), can COLLECT the information, so that stuff is basically public domain, just like you are walking down the street - you have no expectation of privacy standing on a street corner - anybody can see you and what you are doing - they can "collect and store" that information with their eyes, their cameras, their video equipment, etc.

It's the analysis and exploitation of that information that may lead to a privacy violation (ie, cellular phone calls are protected, as I recall, by wiretapping statutes).

Yes, I am completely aware that the above statments will leave me open to countercharges of naivete from conspiracy theorists insistant that the NSA is spying on all of us all the time. Please put your tinfoil hats on and walk away from this conversation. Adults who don't need medication are talking.

Back to the point - the results of their study are internally consistent with their methodology, but I think the methodology is quite flawed. Placing China and the United States in the same teir regarding privacy rights is ludicrous on its face. The Chinese consistently monitor internal communications for the purposes of suppressing dissent; people have gone to jail over their blogs, their txt msgs, their virtual social networks. If you can't tell the difference between that and the United States, Canada, Sweden, the UK, etc, there is no helping you.

[Mas Judt]

Who is selling PDF's?

Again, David, your powers of observation are amazing - amazingly poor.

[1bad65]

yeah well teh pope was a hitler youth. I hope you're not catholic. :rolleyes:

Irrelevant. We are discussing a survey/map made by George Soros. The Pope/Catholic Church has nothing to do with it.



you guys talk a lot of horse hockey like you have intimate knowledge of george soros who probably didn't have squat to do with the collection or aggregation of the information even though he may have supplied the finances to the people who did collect it and sort it. It's just information.

Soros worked briefly for the Jewish Council, which had been established by the Nazis, to deliver messages to Jewish lawyers being called for deportation. Soros claims he was not aware of the consequence of the messages.

The Jewish Council was considered by many Jews as WORSE than the Nazis. In order to save their own skin they collaborated with the Nazis and sold out their own people, even going so far as to help the Nazis deport Jews to the camps as Soros did.

[golden arhat]

Exactly. It's always baffled me why some ultra-rich people support socialism. They are always the first people forced to 'contribute' their wealth to the State when the socialist policies they wanted are enacted.

out of interest

would you answer this for me


suppose that you are a teacher
organising a class trip for fourty pupils all are rich except one and the parents have to give a certain amount of money to pay for their own childs expenses to you, the one child's parents simply can not pay , would you still let him go on the trip ?

[golden arhat]

The point on the schools is moot. The student lipped off to the teacher. He was not turned in by family or friends or caught by the secret police. That's the difference. The Soros map supposedly measures privacy right?

In 10 years it may well be worse here. Especially if we elect enough Democrats to pass socialist policies like Socialized Medicine. Notice how in all the western countries with that (like Canada and UK) it's not working and most of the people hate it. Yet the socialists here are so certain it will work here. :eek:

actually it works fantastically if you look at it

i'd rather wait a bit than pay 300 pounds for an ace bandage and some pills

saving people should never be about money

[golden arhat]

I live in South Africa.

I wouldnt mind if they had CCTV cameras up all over, if it means it will help combat crime. Our lives are constantly under threat of crime. Life is pretty worthless down here, and criminals seems to have the upperhand.

Giving up a little privacy isnt as bad as living in fear.

move here mate


come on my mum will make u some rooibos tea or something


:D

[1bad65]

actually it works fantastically if you look at it

i'd rather wait a bit than pay 300 pounds for an ace bandage and some pills

saving people should never be about money

No, it never works when tried. Look at Cuba. When Joe Schmoe gets sick he goes to the doctor/hospital the State tells him to go to. When the elite like Castro get sick they fly in a specialist from Spain.

Waiting can be a death sentence when it's diseases like cancer or heart disease.

In socialized medicine it ALL about money, except its the State deciding who gets approved for treatment and who does not.

[golden arhat]

The Founding Fathers were some of the greatest men to ever live. .

they owned slaves





thought i'd say

[1bad65]

suppose that you are a teacher
organising a class trip for fourty pupils all are rich except one and the parents have to give a certain amount of money to pay for their own childs expenses to you, the one child's parents simply can not pay , would you still let him go on the trip ?

If you don't get the money you can't go. Period. It's a tough world. Kids need to be taught that they do not get everything they want. It builds character.

But maybe the other parents could pitch in. It's called charity. Charity is voluntary, socialism is forced upon all. Maybe they could have a fundraiser. People always find a way to accomplish their goals/needs, especially if it's that important to them. It used to be called rugged individualism. Too bad it's mostly a thing of the past.

[Fox]

You do not have kids. Come Hell or high water, I would find away for my child to go. Kids are cruel. My son is a teacher, I am positive he would put the money up for a child to go on a field trip.

[Black Jack II]

the one child's parents simply can not pay , would you still let him go on the trip

No.

Those are the rules. Life is not equal and nor should it be in a lot of regards. 1bad65 said it best when he brought up the dying concept of rugged individualism.

[golden arhat]

You do not have kids. Come Hell or high water, I would find away for my child to go. Kids are cruel. My son is a teacher, I am positive he would put the money up for a child to go on a field trip.

well then in premise he is a socialist

socialism is rarely proprly put into place and people dismiss it, instead to be brutally capitalistic and harsh

humans can be very cruel but, there is a good side, the side that feels sorry for the starving in africa etc this is where socialism comes from

treat others as you would like to be treated

[1bad65]

socialism is rarely proprly put into place and people dismiss it, instead to be brutally capitalistic and harsh

Oh boy. Not the 'socialism has never worked, but only because the right people werent in charge' excuse.

Socialism has a fatal flaw as its foundation: it punishes those who achieve success and rewards those who do not. Thus there is no incentive to try and improve your lot in life. Thus the whole house of cards comes crashing down.

[Black Jack II]

humans can be very cruel but, there is a good side, the side that feels sorry for the starving in africa etc this is where socialism comes from

No it does not. It comes from the idea of control and the suppression of free will.

Socialism attempts the impossible, to gain control of human individualism by making a culture of individual people into a uniform society. It's a viewpoint that requires forced ideological compliance to back up the theory.

Here are some of the many poster boys of the failed movement. Anyone notice anything they all have in common.....?

Mao
Pol Pot
Stalin
Hitler
Kim Il Suna
Castro

[1bad65]

My son is a teacher, I am positive he would put the money up for a child to go on a field trip.

Funny you mention that. There was a case on Judge Joe Brown recently where that happened. The teacher loaned the student the money for the trip. Not surprisingly the student had made no effort to pay the teacher back.

[1bad65]

An excellent post. Sadly we are in the minority I would guess.


Socialism attempts the impossible, to gain control of human individualism by making a culture of individual people into a uniform society. It's a viewpoint that requires forced ideological compliance to back up the theory.

That's the key right there and that is why it is doomed to failure.

[1bad65]

No it does not. It comes from the idea of control and the suppression of free will.

Don't forget this either. The ones in charge EXEMPT THEMSELVES from the laws they force on others. Notice the leader of the 'Peoples Revolution' in Cuba is on the Forbes Richest list, yet the common folk live with stuff like milk rationing and drive 50-year old cars.

[Fox]

I never mentioned loaned, I said he would put up the money. I do not watch much T.V., I have classes to teach and family time.
The last time I checked I only payed 34% in taxes.

[1bad65]

I never mentioned loaned, I said he would put up the money. I do not watch much T.V., I have classes to teach and family time.
The last time I checked I only payed 34% in taxes.

Charity is voluntary. That's the difference between capitalism and socialism.

The 50% is TOTAL taxes, not just income taxes. Toll roads, state income taxes, sales taxes, death taxes, gas taxes, 'sin' taxes (alcohol/tobacco), etc bring the AVERAGE up to about 50% per family.

[Fox]

Most of ths taxes you refer to, I will get that back. I have Adoption deductions for federsl and state taxes. 20k which I can use over the next three years.
As a vet I get free Healthcare, if it is Military related. I have other Healthcare, which is is also thru work.
Auto insuance is as well the cheapest around, thru Military, compare USAA insurance to any other auto insurance and see the prices, It pays to be in the military, but sucks when it is wartime. Being away from family is hard.
Texas does not have sales tax or so I was told.
My son does this out of kindness, I would not call it charity.

[1bad65]

Fox, the 50% is an average. Some will be higher than it and some will be lower. Yea Texas has no state income tax, so I may pay a little under the 50% too, although since I make over $36,500/yr I am rich by Bill Clinton's definition.

Doing something nice for someone in need out of kindness is the definition of charity.

[Fox]

Fox, the 50% is an average. Some will be higher than it and some will be lower. Yea Texas has no state income tax, so I may pay a little under the 50% too, although since I make over $36,500/yr I am rich by Bill Clinton's definition.

Doing something nice for someone in need out of kindness is the definition of charity.

WOW, if you make that much in a year, I must be upperclass:o

[1bad65]

WOW, if you make that much in a year, I must be upperclass:o

Read carefully, I said I make OVER that amount.

[Fox]

I read it and I make way over that, so I am rich as well:D

Why do you attack so many people? I have been reading some of your posts, do you feel the need to be right all the time?

[1bad65]

Why do you attack so many people? I have been reading some of your posts, do you feel the need to be right all the time?

I don't. I've actually made quite a few friends here as well as other sites I post on. I'm on Bullshido alot, and when I've been to the 2 Throwdowns I attended everyone who knew me from online was cool to me.

As for always being right, it's a tough job but someone has to do it. :) Actually I just have strong beliefs, and I don't back down easily.

[Fox]

I know you have been to throwdowns, I have friends on here as well as BS. You went to throwdowns in Austin.
I wanted a throwdown here, but John said no one was interested in the last one he and stick pot on.

[David Jamieson]

do you guys need to highjack and have a running gunfight across every thread there is?

Get the fug outta here! lol

[Eddie]

'They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security.'
-Ben Franklin


Easy to say when you don’t have to worry every night that someone will break into your home, rape your wife, mutilate your child (to sell his body parts for medicine), and make you suffer till you die.

Easy to say for people who don’t have to lock their car doors every time they go somewhere, spend allot of money on anti highjacking security, spend three times as much on car insurance payments, and who does not know what it feels to have an AK 47 pressed against your head in traffic with some twat demanding your car.

Easy for people to say who has never been held up in their own homes, who still enjoys walking in the street without the fear of getting robbed and killed for a $50 cellphone, who still knows what its like to live in a fairly safe city and who has never been involved in any hate crime incidents in their whole lives.

No I tell you, Ben Franklin, can come and kiss my @$$. What does he know about living in fear?

Bring on the cameras. if it will help in combating crime, I m all for it

[David Jamieson]

Oh boy. Not the 'socialism has never worked, but only because the right people werent in charge' excuse.

Socialism has a fatal flaw as its foundation: it punishes those who achieve success and rewards those who do not. Thus there is no incentive to try and improve your lot in life. Thus the whole house of cards comes crashing down.

hey, you are stuck in a thought form that is entirely capitalist. I don't think you have any sort of ability to actually compare because with this statement you are essentially admitting your incapability to stretch your head around concepts that are not the same as those you've been fed and nurtured in (ie capitalism).

the truth is that diversity, compromise and cohesion of political models as opposed to seperation of them is the way forward. socialism has some good points and bad, capitalism has good points and bad. I think the model you are speaking about is collectivism and communism which is not exactly the same as modern socialism.

[Mr Punch]

No I tell you, Ben Franklin, can come and kiss my @$$. What does he know about living in fear?

Bring on the cameras. if it will help in combating crime, I m all for itYeah. that's what I was wondering - loads of people seem to equate cameras with a loss of freedom: I kind of like them myself!
BTW everyone, why do people associate cameras in public places with a loss of freedom/privacy? I can understand it to a certain degree, but in many places and cases I think having them there is a good thing.(From the Bush's wealth thread)

[Mr Punch]

hey, you are stuck in a thought form that is entirely capitalist. I don't think you have any sort of ability to actually compare because with this statement you are essentially admitting your incapability to stretch your head around concepts that are not the same as those you've been fed and nurtured in (ie capitalism).

the truth is that diversity, compromise and cohesion of political models as opposed to seperation of them is the way forward. socialism has some good points and bad, capitalism has good points and bad. I think the model you are speaking about is collectivism and communism which is not exactly the same as modern socialism.Good post. BJII's list is would-be communists and collectivists: socialism is NOT an absolutist system, it has elements that can easily and successfully be included in an integrated political system that doesn't have socialism as its overall base. (Except for Hitler who's National Socialism was socialism in name and nationalism in everything else... not saying they're exclusive but it wasn't plain socialism)

[David Jamieson]

exactly.

having cameras in public places is often the same as having a cop on the beat to watch what's going on. I do not for one second have a problem with it and in fact support it. It's a no brainer and it does act on some levels as an effective deterent where there was none before.

If it keeps crack dealers off the streets, if it keeps shootings to a minimum if at all if it makes the criminally intent stop doing what they are doing then do it!

If you decrease the peoples ability to lie cheat and steal then tre is nothing wrong wth taht type of control I think.

Now, if only we could get cops to change their perspectives on white collar crime to match their views on blue collar crime.

If timmy the hillbilly steals 40k he gets a few years in prison, of timmy the wall street exec does it, not much happens to him.

An end to classism would be a good thing.

[Eddie]

David Jamieson for president!

[Mas Judt]

Oh sh!t, David said something rationale that didn't come off as ignorantly snobbish...

The world must be ending. :D

[AJM]

I'm more than a little frightened right now.:eek:

[1bad65]

To Eddie, crime statistics show that the best counter to crime is an armed populace. Whenever concealed/carry laws are enacted, crime goes down. Whenever guns are oulawed (UK, Australia, Washington DC), crime goes up. It's really simple.

Attack my country all you want, I see yours was the country of Apartheid until 1994. Yeah, South Africa is really on the cutting edge of human rights and personal freedom. :rolleyes:

[1bad65]

Socialism/Communism vs Capitalism is really black and white no matter how you argue it. One has procuced the richest nation on earth, the US, and socialism has produced the poorest, Cuba, N. Korea, Vietnam, USSR, etc.

Remember this, as it is 100% true: Capitalist countries build fences to protect it's people, communist countries build them to keep it's own people in.

The Berlin Wall may be gone, but never forget what it stood for.

[Yao Sing]

I live in South Africa.

I wouldnt mind if they had CCTV cameras up all over, if it means it will help combat crime. Our lives are constantly under threat of crime. Life is pretty worthless down here, and criminals seems to have the upperhand.

Giving up a little privacy isnt as bad as living in fear.

Band Aids prone to abuse. Why are there so many low life trash peeps committing these crimes? Why not attack the problem at the source instead of putting out fires after the fact?


guy, you realize we don't live in anything close to the same era as these guys right?

those terms and phrases were used when people were few. Now there are literally hordes of criminals.

Dude, please stay in Canada. Thank you.


If you take a look at the methodology, the grading of the United States makes sense.

First, this is a study strictly of the right/status of PRIVACY in the United States, in all aspects.

They note that:

There is no explicit right of Privacy in the Constitution

The government has significant powers to surveil and monitor all kinds of communications, and the capability to do so.

Merry, I generally like the comments you bring to these discussions even though I don't always agree.

I think this is where things have gone wrong, the Constitution explicitly enumerates the power of the government, not the rights and powers of the Citizenry. So right from the start you have it wrong.

IOW, if it ISN'T explicitly stated it's reserved to the people and the states. See, it was much easier to list the limited powers of the government than to go into a lengthy list of rights and powers reserved by the people. Especially since something could get left out.

As you stated it the assumption is the government can do anything that isn't explicitly listed to prohibit it when in reality it's the other way around.

You're an intelligent person so it surprises me that you don't see this.

[1bad65]

I think this is where things have gone wrong, the Constitution explicitly enumerates the power of the government, not the rights and powers of the Citizenry. So right from the start you have it wrong.

While I think you are usually a bit too 'conspiracy theory' for me, you are 100% correct on the above statement.

Notice how the Constitution REPEATEDLY uses the the terms 'shall not' and 'will not' in relation to the Government, but not once in terms of The People.

[Eddie]

To Eddie, crime statistics show that the best counter to crime is an armed populace. Whenever concealed/carry laws are enacted, crime goes down. Whenever guns are oulawed (UK, Australia, Washington DC), crime goes up. It's really simple.

Attack my country all you want, I see yours was the country of Apartheid until 1994. Yeah, South Africa is really on the cutting edge of human rights and personal freedom. :rolleyes:

I wasn’t attacking your country at all, Im merely attacking your (personal) very naïve and sheltered views. The quote you posted, was obviously made by someone slightly more arrogant and perhaps more naïve than most.

I agree with you, South Africa is the country of many human rights atrocities. I read somewhere recently, we are on the top 3 in the world for human rights violations. But that didn’t have much to do with this topic. We spoke about crime and taking away our ‘privacy’ in order to fight crime.

CRIME is a problem we live with every single day. In my country, it’s a bigger problem than in yours. I wouldn’t mind having my right to privacy ‘violated’ in order to feel protected. I have nothing to hide, and I am not bothered about what big brother may be seeing. If it can fight crime, make me feel safe again, and make it easier for me to survive, then I support it.

[Eddie]

Band Aids prone to abuse. Why are there so many low life trash peeps committing these crimes? Why not attack the problem at the source instead of putting out fires after the fact?



Completely agree with you there, but its often simpler said than done.

While politicians fight over what may be the cause, we, the mere mortal citizens, are suffering because of the high crime rate. Its also a little naïve to think that one would find a solution to all these problems within one short lifetime (Considering the magnitude of the problem).

In the mean time, we need to be secure. Having cameras up all over the place, is a good reactive approach to the problem.

My son’s school has cameras all over, even in the class rooms. I feel safer knowing that, as it ensures the safety of my child, even against (god forbid) a molesting teacher.

[Yao Sing]

While I think you are usually a bit too 'conspiracy theory' for me, you are 100% correct on the above statement.

Notice how the Constitution REPEATEDLY uses the the terms 'shall not' and 'will not' in relation to the Government, but not once in terms of The People.

Yeah, you kinda threw me off with your views here but complete naivete about criminal activities of those in power, both politically and financially (usually one and the same).

I'm sure an straight up guy with no criminal past history or association with such and no insight into criminal activities of police and local politicians. But that doesn't mean everyone else has the same background.

Ok, so I said more than I wanted but you have to resist the urge to bury your head in the sand and assume just because you wouldn't do something that others wouldn't as well.

I know someone who spent time in prison with Noreiga. I know someone who spent time with Ron Lister. I know someone who was intimently aware of the drug smuggling operation out of Vietnam during the war.

I have seen prosecuters outright lie to the Judge. I have personal insight into unlawful activities of a currupt mayor (now deceased) and local police (since retired). You have no clue what goes on in this country. Either that or you do and are just practicing damage control to get the unknowing masses back to sleep.

[Yao Sing]

Completely agree with you there, but its often simpler said than done.

True, but notice how all the money seems to go to the band aids while nothing is done to correct it at the root of the problem.

[Eddie]

youre talking about band aids like the 46664 concerts?

Having some rock n roll superstar playing to a packed stadium of rich middle class kids wont solve the problem of crime.

Guess only way to sort out the problem is do what most people down here do, move to Australia, Canada or the UK.

Personally, I like Florida. I would LOVE to live in Florida. Florida is like Heaven on Earth. and they can video tape me all they want :cool:

[Yao Sing]

What's stopping you, family or finances?

[Eddie]

visa requirements

[Yao Sing]

Must be at your end because anyone can waltz into this country anytime they want and stay as long as they want.

[1bad65]

I'm not naive, but I can't buy some of the more nutty conspiracy theories. I actually distrust Government. Don't forget I live in Austin, home of the 'Yogurt Shop Murders', the Danziger and Ochoa case, and Billy Gene Davis(APD got him to confess to killing his gf who later turned up alive and well in Arizona OOPS:rolleyes:), to name a few.

I just can't buy that all of Congress, political enemies like Clinton and Bush, the CIA, etc can all collude and keep secrets when Bill Clinton can't even keep secret his getting a bj from a fat intern.

[1bad65]

Personally, I like Florida. I would LOVE to live in Florida. Florida is like Heaven on Earth. and they can video tape me all they want :cool:

Florida allows concealed weapons and has very broad self-defence laws, thus they are a pretty safe state to live in. Amazing how that happens. ;)

[1bad65]

Must be at your end because anyone can waltz into this country anytime they want and stay as long as they want.

True. You can also leave here if you so desire. Just remember you would get shot for trying to leave 'workers paradises' like Cuba, East Germany, USSR, and Vietnam just to name a few.

[Yao Sing]

Would hate to really argue with you on this 1bad because you have a lot of good sense.

Truth is all of Congress is NOT keeping secrects because they aren't in the loop. You should understand that they regularly get the run around when they try to investigate these things.

Obviously Ron Paul isn't hanging on to any of these secrets.

And while Clinton and Bush might be political enemies that doesn't mean they are financial enemies. They belong to the same organizations.

Or maybe they prefer to have the appearance of being at opposite ends. Kinda like having 2 opposing rivals to vote for come election time.

[1bad65]

Would hate to really argue with you on this 1bad because you have a lot of good sense.

Thanks



Truth is all of Congress is NOT keeping secrects because they aren't in the loop.

Then the very foundation of these crazy theories is destroyed. You see, Congress funds the CIA, the FBI, and the military. And EVERY member of Congress and the Senate get to vote and see all of the spending bills. So they are ALL privy to all info about the activities of those entities.

[Yao Sing]

Then the very foundation of these crazy theories is destroyed. You see, Congress funds the CIA, the FBI, and the military. And EVERY member of Congress and the Senate get to vote and see all of the spending bills. So they are ALL privy to all info about the activities of those entities.

Not true. Yes they vote but no they don't really know what they are voting on. How many read or even got an overall description of the Patriot Act before voting for it?

Are $400 hammers a result of incompetancy or a means of hiding money spent on black ops?

Do you really know what you're saying is true? How do you know?

[Yao Sing]

A friend of mine was on the local planning board. He got paid each time he voted the way the Mayor told him to vote. Most of the time he didn't bother to pay attention to what it was for, just did it for the extra cash.

Any chance that happens at a higher level?

Once again you're blinded by lack of experience with these things. You start with the assumption they everything and everyone is on the up-and-up and they are all diligent and follow the rules.

[1bad65]

So your friend was corrupt. Not all are. Yes, it happens at higher levels. But not to the extent these nutbars try and portray.

Look at this: A new Congressman comes to DC. When a spending bill comes in he questions a line item in it. It's explained to him that this is the money used to fund the cocaine importing that makes the Clintons and Bushes alot of money. He(and the hundreds of other Congressmen) goes along with this and never tells anyone the truth.

Do you really believe that? :eek:

[Yao Sing]

So your friend was corrupt. Not all are. Yes, it happens at higher levels. But not to the extent these nutbars try and portray.

Look at this: A new Congressman comes to DC. When a spending bill comes in he questions a line item in it. It's explained to him that this is the money used to fund the cocaine importing that makes the Clintons and Bushes alot of money. He(and the hundreds of other Congressmen) goes along with this and never tells anyone the truth.

Do you really believe that? :eek:

Not at all. Do you think anyone believe that? It seems to me that's what you think they believe.

[1bad65]

Not at all. Do you think anyone believe that? It seems to me that's what you think they believe.

Read your own posts on this thread! Posts 97 and 106. And don't forget this one:
http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=832096&postcount=67

Seems THEY posted what THEY believe.

[Yao Sing]

Sorry, I'm lost on what you're getting at about my posts 97 and 106. I don't see where I made any claim that there's a grand conspiracy that all of Congrees is a party to, in fact just the opposite.

I don't see the link you posted proving your claim either. You're throwing wild haymakers hoping to get lucky here.

What I gave as example was just one small piece of what I know goes on in the real world. I could tell you about cops dealing drugs, cops covering for drug dealers, guys selling steriods to local cops who protect him from arrest and tip him off to raids. An FBI agent refusing a position in Florida because the corruption is so rampant he couldn't work and maintain his honesty and beliefs.

The truth is it's not an issue of a few bad apples in every basket, it's a few good apples (if you're lucky). The majority are corrupt.

I would go as far as saying it's impossible reaching the highest office in this country without being corrupt. See how far Ron Paul gets.

Does that mean every politician is a part of every scheme? No. Does the whole CIA know what goes on with every agent? I seriously doubt that.

I'm sure not every local cop knows about the steroid dealer, but I could be wrong.

Do you think the richest in the world got that way completely legal and legit? The Kennedy's didn't get their initial fortune smuggling diamonds?

[1bad65]

We agree there is corruption. There is. I just disagree with the nutbars who think that there are the grand conspiracies with 9/11 or AIDS or Pearl Harbor or drugs or the moon landing, etc. See?



The Kennedy's didn't get their initial fortune smuggling diamonds?

Actually it was Joe Kennedy smuggling alcohol during Prohibition.

[1bad65]

Do you think the richest in the world got that way completely legal and legit?

Michael Dell perhaps? ;)

[Eddie]

sure one can slip into the country and stay as long as you want, but Im already an Unwanted Alien in my country of birth, I dont want to be one in the country of my dreams. And running from the cops isnt my idea of fun.

[diego]

We agree there is corruption. There is. I just disagree with the nutbars who think that there are the grand conspiracies with 9/11 or AIDS or Pearl Harbor or drugs or the moon landing, etc. See?




Actually it was Joe Kennedy smuggling alcohol during Prohibition.

i have a lot of rascist people in my family, i have met a lot of rascist whites in vancouver...the way they talk really makes me think **** i could see the rascist whites in america creating aids...dudes live in a fantasy world and when people beleive jesus is coming back and the unvirse is 8000 years old only took 7 days to make, and it was their right to take over most of the world because god blessed them with knowledge to make guns and kill the pagan...nah someone who beleives that is reality wouldn't have an odd rational to create aids when he beleives all that and he likes coke and prostitutes....some dandies running those boys clubs...yall see the CBC alaskan oil scandal?...CORRUPT.*******S. CLUB.

[SifuAbel]

Then the very foundation of these crazy theories is destroyed. You see, Congress funds the CIA, the FBI, and the military. And EVERY member of Congress and the Senate get to vote and see all of the spending bills. So they are ALL privy to all info about the activities of those entities.


If this were true, congress wouldn't have a need to be in a constant state of discovery concerning over site investigations. They would know already. Every agency and bureaucracy in this country fights for it existence, money, and follows its agendas to do so.

[golden arhat]

To Eddie, crime statistics show that the best counter to crime is an armed populace. Whenever concealed/carry laws are enacted, crime goes down. Whenever guns are oulawed (UK, Australia, Washington DC), crime goes up. It's really simple.

Attack my country all you want, I see yours was the country of Apartheid until 1994. Yeah, South Africa is really on the cutting edge of human rights and personal freedom. :rolleyes:

your gun crime rate is like 90 times higher than ours in proportion to poulation

explain that

[diego]

don't get me wrong canada has ghosts like a mofo but....****: http://masters-of-photography.com/images/full/bourke-white/b-w_living.jpg

[1bad65]

Diego, I won't argue religion as it's personal faith/beliefs. But you saying you can see racist white guys creating AIDS is just nuts. You do know it does not just affect non-whites right? It initially spread quickly through gay men and IV drug users, those groups contain plenty of white people.

[1bad65]

If this were true, congress wouldn't have a need to be in a constant state of discovery concerning over site investigations. They would know already. Every agency and bureaucracy in this country fights for it existence, money, and follows its agendas to do so.

Your a little confused here. Congress will at times vote for spending, but the actual amount will be withheld from the public, usually for national security issues. Examples are covert ops spending, money for research into new weapons systems, espionage budgets, etc. While the amounts and purposes may be withheld from the public, the Congressman and Senators voting for it know exactly how much and what the money is going to.

[1bad65]

your gun crime rate is like 90 times higher than ours in proportion to poulation

Considering we have guns and your society has outlawed them, that's expected. Your country has higher rates in other areas due to your gun laws. Home invasions are higher there as the intruders do not fear guns. While gangs of 'neds' and 'happy slappers' actually assault people wontonly over there in no fear of their victims being armed, doing that here is a good way to get shot and the criminals know it.

Remember in your society law-abiding citizens cannot carry guns, in mine we can. But in both of ours those breaking the law can arm themselves as they choose. My country believes in giving law-abiding people the means to protect themselves, yours does not trust law-abiding people to own guns. Wonder why?

[Yao Sing]

Your a little confused here. Congress will at times vote for spending, but the actual amount will be withheld from the public, usually for national security issues. Examples are covert ops spending, money for research into new weapons systems, espionage budgets, etc. While the amounts and purposes may be withheld from the public, the Congressman and Senators voting for it know exactly how much and what the money is going to.

And you can bet that they'll use the money EXACTLY how it was requested. No creative bookeeping, shifting of funds from here to there. Obviously no outright lying of any sort.

Everything is on the up-and-up. There are no criminals in political office. $400 hammers are just slip-ups and are definitely not a way to redirect funds or cover payments for unapproved services.

That's exactly how these things are able to be pulled off. Peopel being in denial that anything like this could happen.

People are funny. Ever see that TV show with the ex-burglers showing peeps how easy it is to rob them? These people think locking the doors and windows will keep a thief out of the house.

The criminal just laugh all the way to the bank crossing their fingers that the population doesn't wake up to reality.

[Yao Sing]

The gun issue - guns don't kill people. Take away the guns and the trash will use knives. Take away the knives and they'll use hammers. It's real simple.

[Black Jack II]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5006852.stm

[Black Jack II]

Plus you have to love the value system in Canada.....:rolleyes:

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/columnists/story.html?id=f045b583-2373-4893-bec3-a0ab6f7d076c

[1bad65]

Yao, you still need to provide some actual EVIDENCE of your CIA-cocaine connection. I agree Gov't has corruption, but you are talking about a SPECIFIC instance. Provide evidence of that.

[Yao Sing]

Plus you have to love the value system in Canada.....:rolleyes:

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/columnists/story.html?id=f045b583-2373-4893-bec3-a0ab6f7d076c

Glad I live in Florida.
FL Castle Doctrine (http://http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/25/AR2005042501553.html)

Check this out though -

"The courts gradually moved away from that . . . but people still have a very emotional attachment to what was essentially a medieval law."

If it's a medieval law can it possibly apply to modern society? Duh.

This is for the peeps who think things like the Constitution and Magna Carta are just old outdated documents that no longer apply.

[Black Jack II]

The Flordia castle doctrine is a really good thing.

It brings commonsense into the arena. That a criminal who forcibly enters into your home or your vehicle can be their to cause death or serious bodily harm, so the victim may use ANY manner of force, which includes the use of deadly force, against that person.

Plus it gets rid of the "duty to" retreat nonsense.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Plus you have to love the value system in Canada.....:rolleyes:

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/columnists/story.html?id=f045b583-2373-4893-bec3-a0ab6f7d076c

You know why these things make news ?
Because they are far and few between.

We have some sad and pathetic laws up here, don't even make me go into our patehtic gun registry crap !

In our biggest city we had 80 murders last year ( I think) http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=d8fbc999-237b-40ea-85c7-93583a7da0e1

Could be much better though, we have a lousy bail system...

[1bad65]

In Texas you have the right to protect your property with deadly force at night. As in they do not even have to be in your house. If they are like breaking into your car at night you can use deadly force, even if you yourself are not in danger and even when the car is not even in your garage.

[sanjuro_ronin]

In Texas you have the right to protect your property with deadly force at night. As in they do not even have to be in your house. If they are like breaking into your car at night you can use deadly force, even if you yourself are not in danger and even when the car is not even in your garage.

Lets hope no one makes a "mistake"...

[Yao Sing]

Yao, you still need to provide some actual EVIDENCE of your CIA-cocaine connection. I agree Gov't has corruption, but you are talking about a SPECIFIC instance. Provide evidence of that.

Right, gotcha. Like if I could do that I'd probably be dead already. The fall guys took the fall and the ones powerful enough to escape prosecution did so. Get real.

Seriously, I wasn't personally involved so I have no 'evidence'. As for any of the accused (yes there was enough 'evidence' to hold hearings but maybe you don't believe it because it was before your time) they obviously pleaded innocent and the CIA managed to dodge a bullet.

What I do have is enough second hand info combined with enough personal experience and knowledge of corruption and criminal activity to believe the allegations are true.

Funny how the coke just keeps puring into this country while we spen billions in a war on drugs. Just a quick search to find info on a recent incident you probably haven't heard about -
read (http://www.madcowprod.com/12142007.html)

more (http://www.technoccult.com/archives/2008/01/04/cia-rendition-plane-brought-down-in-mexico-with-four-tons-of-cocaine-on-board/)

Look, you obviously have no background/experience/knowledge concerning things like this so you're at a serious disadvantage so I completely understand how you can have trouble believe this stuff.

Consider yourself lucky. Unfortunately that's what allows crooks to get away with the things they do.

These discussions are becomming ridiculous. Expecting corrupt politicians to admit to wrongdoing, crooks providing evidence of their guilt.

[1bad65]

You just said all Yao. Look, you seem to be a pretty smart, rational guy. But you saying you know there was a CIA-cocaine connection yet have NO evidence is the exact same as the space cadets saying that they know GWB is a space alien yet they also can provide NO evidence.

[SPJ]

each country has its culture and political culture, too,

too much policing may not work well.

a little policing is awalys necessary.

the rest would be family, society, school, church --

if everyone is law abiding, then there is not much policing needed.

singapore is a very harsh and most policed state in the world and privacy intrusion, too.

it is fine, because the people are bound by confusicious ideology already.

however, the system may not work well in any other place.

--

[golden arhat]

Considering we have guns and your society has outlawed them, that's expected. Your country has higher rates in other areas due to your gun laws. Home invasions are higher there as the intruders do not fear guns. While gangs of 'neds' and 'happy slappers'
[/U]

dont lecture me on what criminals do in my country please my mums a prison officer i see crime here and its nothing like what you portray it as

neds are a scottish thing btw

here theyre called chavs and just dress differently there are criminals in all the different subcultures

happy slapping was phase that passed ages ago actually

u really dont know that much

[1bad65]

u really dont know that much

I know I have alot more freedom than you do. I know I have the right to carry a gun for my personal safety and that you don't.

So you deny that home invasions are not more common over there as criminals know their victims cannot legally arm themselves with guns?

[Yao Sing]

You just said all Yao. Look, you seem to be a pretty smart, rational guy. But you saying you know there was a CIA-cocaine connection yet have NO evidence is the exact same as the space cadets saying that they know GWB is a space alien yet they also can provide NO evidence.

Which is the same as you saying OJ did it yet can provide NO evidence it's true.

Get it yet?

But then the difference is in the hearsy testimony I have from people directly, and indirectly, involved.

[Yao Sing]

I know I have alot more freedom than you do. I know I have the right to carry a gun for my personal safety and that you don't.

So you deny that home invasions are not more common over there as criminals know their victims cannot legally arm themselves with guns?

Worse than that they even get prosecuted for defending themselves.

I lived in Texas (early 1982 to late 1989) before moving to Florida. I'm so spoiled.

[1bad65]

Which is the same as you saying OJ did it yet can provide NO evidence it's true.

Get it yet?

But then the difference is in the hearsy testimony I have from people directly, and indirectly, involved.


There was DNA evidence pointing to OJ! It may not have been enough to convince the jury (and dont get me started on that), but there was SOME evidence presented. As for the CIA-cocaine crap there so far has been NO evidence provided and as I and MK pointed out even partisan Dems NEVER EVEN MADE THOSE ALLEGATIONS.

Do you see the difference?

[Yao Sing]

There was DNA evidence pointing to OJ! It may not have been enough to convince the jury (and dont get me started on that), but there was SOME evidence presented. As for the CIA-cocaine crap there so far has been NO evidence provided and as I and MK pointed out even partisan Dems NEVER EVEN MADE THOSE ALLEGATIONS.

Do you see the difference?

Apparently there was not evidence to prove the drug smuggling but there was evidence. Not really any different so I don't see your point at all.

try this (http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB2/nsaebb2.htm)

"An August, 1996, series in the San Jose Mercury News by reporter Gary Webb linked the origins of crack cocaine in California to the contras, a guerrilla force backed by the Reagan administration that attacked Nicaragua's Sandinista government during the 1980s. Webb's series, "The Dark Alliance," has been the subject of intense media debate, and has focused attention on a foreign policy drug scandal that leaves many questions unanswered.
This electronic briefing book is compiled from declassified documents obtained by the National Security Archive, including the notebooks kept by NSC aide and Iran-contra figure Oliver North, electronic mail messages written by high-ranking Reagan administration officials, memos detailing the contra war effort, and FBI and DEA reports. The documents demonstrate official knowledge of drug operations, and collaboration with and protection of known drug traffickers. Court and hearing transcripts are also included."

[Yao Sing]

By the way, you don't think this has any merit?

"Its been six hundred and twenty-two days since an American-registered DC9 airliner, "tricked out" to look like an airplane from the U.S. Dept. of Homeland Security, took off from the St. Petersburg-Clearwater Int'l Airport (left) and was busted in Mexico carrying 5.5 tons of cocaine."

I posted the link to the article previously. More evidence pointing to CIA drug smuggling yet nothing solid enough to convict.

How much do you need before you start to see a pattern?

[Yao Sing]

Isn't RD in Chicago? What do you think of these guys?

public radio (http://www.boingboing.net/2007/10/31/chicago-pubic-radio.html)

[1bad65]

If that kind of evidence really exists I'm sure the Democrats running for office in this next election will use it to their advantage. We shall see.

I know where I'd place my bets....

[1bad65]

By the way, you don't think this has any merit?

"Its been six hundred and twenty-two days since an American-registered DC9 airliner, "tricked out" to look like an airplane from the U.S. Dept. of Homeland Security, took off from the St. Petersburg-Clearwater Int'l Airport (left) and was busted in Mexico carrying 5.5 tons of cocaine."

I posted the link to the article previously. More evidence pointing to CIA drug smuggling yet nothing solid enough to convict.

How does a plane registered in the US automatically become a CIA plane? I could paint one of my cars up as an APD cruiser and use it to smuggle drugs. How would that make the APD responsible or complicate?

[Yao Sing]

How does a plane registered in the US automatically become a CIA plane? I could paint one of my cars up as an APD cruiser and use it to smuggle drugs. How would that make the APD responsible or complicate?

Guess you missed the part about the plane being previously used by the CIA on 3 occasions to transport prisoners to Gitmo (I believe).

Kinda like Donnie Brasco taking his mob buddies out on a boat the was known to be previously involved in an FBI sting operation.

Once again, like I keep saying, no 'solid' evidence but it soon begins to stack up for all but the ones who don't WANT to believe.

[Yao Sing]

I'm about done with this. Hard keeping 2 similar threads going anyhow.

I feel like I'm arguing with Bill Clinton about what actually constitutes 'sex' and what the definition if 'is' is.

[1bad65]

Again, it USED to be a CIA plane. APD sells theie old cruisers at auctions. So if a drug smuggler buys one and paints it to look like an actual in-service cruiser, is it still a case of APD smuggling in the drugs?

[diego]

Diego, I won't argue religion as it's personal faith/beliefs. But you saying you can see racist white guys creating AIDS is just nuts. You do know it does not just affect non-whites right? It initially spread quickly through gay men and IV drug users, those groups contain plenty of white people.


the iraq war is nuts...white guys send bombs on baby carriages every day under your tax dollars...why wouldn't some crazy hitler types thinking they the lost tribe of atlantis create a deadly virus and then they can seceretly give their people the vaccine in their annual flu checkups:) i know it sounds stupid but the story does highlight the evil of corrupt humans with power....have you seen the alaskan oil scandal with the Corrupt Bas-tards Club?....they shady as hell and in pocket with the repub's in washington.

i mean magic johnson is still alive they said he would die in a couple years...if you got money aids ain't ****...a few white people dead is collateral damage...nation of islam beleives whites are created by the devil and they are bent on taking over the world...they know in one hundered years all the babies will be brown and this scares them so they set out to exterminate the world zones of color...i'm just saying i wouldn't put it past them.

[1bad65]

Diego, I'm not even gonna bother with the conspiracy theory stuff as convincing you would be impossible. I'll destroy this statement though:


if you got money aids ain't ****...

Tell that to Arthur Ashe, Isaac Asimov, Rock Hudson, Freddie Mercury, Liberace, and Anthony Perkins just to name a few. Yeah, their millions of dollars really beat AIDS didn't it. :rolleyes:

[diego]

Diego, I'm not even gonna bother with the conspiracy theory stuff as convincing you would be impossible. I'll destroy this statement though:



Tell that to Arthur Ashe, Isaac Asimov, Rock Hudson, Freddie Mercury, Liberace, and Anthony Perkins just to name a few. Yeah, their millions of dollars really beat AIDS didn't it. :rolleyes:
freedy merc was gay, jesus' pops hates gays....

[diego]

for real 1bad use your imagination...you telling me one of these skinhead groups wouldn't try to stop the world being ran by brown people in the year 2100? america will not be white republican in 2100 and they know this...they crazy enough to hate everyone just like the jihad muslems...now imagine one of these skinheads is an ill scientist...a master of germ warfare.

[1bad65]

Of course there are racists. But to belive that AIDS is a grand conspiracy is ridiculous.

[Yao Sing]

Of course there are racists. But to belive that AIDS is a grand conspiracy is ridiculous.

Don't read too much into this but ... why?

[diego]

Of course there are racists. But to belive that AIDS is a grand conspiracy is ridiculous.

um it doesn't have to be viewed as a grand concpiracy it is a small percentage of the population that wants the rest extinguished or enslaved at wal mart...some people beleive the universe is 8000 years old, and these people have degrees in brain surgery and the like...there are many educated idiots out there.

[1bad65]

Don't read too much into this but ... why?

As I said before, there is a rational explanation for everything. AIDS is a fatal disease, there are plenty of other fatal diseases too. Which ones are and which ones are not part of this master plan?

[diego]

As I said before, there is a rational explanation for everything. AIDS is a fatal disease, there are plenty of other fatal diseases too. Which ones are and which ones are not part of this master plan?

i'm only talking about the conspiracy theories that are popular in non white communities...rappers talk about it's funny they say cia brought crack in the 80's and aids ravaged all of the non white ghettoes of the world, especiially africa...they say it goes back to the 70's they brought coke, in the 60's it was heroin...why were they doing this? fear of communists...they didn't want the nation of islam and marten luther king and all the mexicans and the natives of north america to unite with the commies in china and iwth all the muslems throughout the world so they fed **** to the ghettoes....heroin, cocaine, crack, aids. Doing this turned political groups like the black panthers into hardcore gang units like the california bloods and crips of the crack era 80's.

it's an ill theory...nation of islam rappers say white man is a mutant devil created by yacub bent on bringing harm to the righteous man of the world so it is a holy war in their eyes...white man is scared brown man will overpopulate and dominate in the next hundered years. Also you got the theory capitalist white man is scared of commies and muslems so he will do anything to maintain his position as any wild beast would. f'n yacub

now i'm white with a bit of native blood so take it for what it is.

[sanjuro_ronin]

i mean magic johnson is still alive they said he would die in a couple years...if you got money aids ain't ****...a few white people dead is collateral damage...nation of islam beleives whites are created by the devil and they are bent on taking over the world...they know in one hundered years all the babies will be brown and this scares them so they set out to exterminate the world zones of color...i'm just saying i wouldn't put it past them.

I think that MJ has HIV, I don't think it ever became AIDS.

[Drake]

Our next president may be an African American... now THAT will blow some conspiracy theories out of the water if that happens...

[Mr Punch]

Our next president may be an African American... now THAT will blow some conspiracy theories out of the water if that happens...Yep, the next great idealist! Like JFK!

.
.
.
oh shoot!

:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

Yep, the next great idealist! Like JFK!

.
.
.
oh shoot!

:D

You said Shoot and JFK in the same post !!
Ninjas have been sent to terminate you with extreme prejudice.