Yip Mans Wooden Dummy

[Chris Stein]

Hi,

who knows, what happened to Yip Mans Dummy after his death?

A dummy is normally a livetime instrument and we know that he used it shortly before he died.

Where is this dummy today, who has it?!?!

Regards

Chris

[Paul T England]

I think Ip Ching has it and still lives in the same appartment.

[LoneTiger108]

I don't know if it's still there, as Paul may be correct, but during the Opening Ceremony of Ip Mans Tong in Foshan his personal jong was placed inside along with a set of his knives and a pole.

Check my clip out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgialUAw1K8

I'm interested to know why you want to find Ip Mans own mook yan jong though...

[Mr Punch]

I'm interested to know why you want to find Ip Mans own mook yan jong though...
You fools! You know it's carved out of the wood they used to turn the Holy Grail itself! :eek:

[Chris Stein]

I'm interested to know why you want to find Ip Mans own mook yan jong though...


A month ago I had a telephone call with a guy from germany. He is a student of Wan Kam Leung. He told me a story, that Ip Man gave his dummy to Wong Shun Leung and he gave it to Wan Kam Leung. Wan Kam Leung gave this dummy to him and now it stands in his school in germany...:rolleyes:

By the way, I've heard the story from different sides, that Ip Man gave his dummy to Wong Shun Leung. But if this is true, what happened after WSL death, where is the dummy now...?

Regards

Chris

[martyg]

Yip Man had several dummies over his lifetime. So all the stories could be correct.

[Chris Stein]

I'm to lazy to translate it - sorry...

LINK (http://www.kampfkunst-board.info/forum/1193682-post25.html)

Chris

[Pressure Point]

I think Ip Ching has it and still lives in the same appartment.


Ip Ching still lives in the same apartment in Hong Kong where his father spent the last years of his life. One of Ip Man's original dummies was placed in the Ip Man Tong in Foshan, China. Although the dummy that is currently set up in Ip Ching's apartment is not his father's original dummy, it does have the original leg inserted from Ip Man's personal Mook Yan Jong.

[Phil Redmond]

William Cheung and his older brother had Yip Man's first HK dummy built.
There is a story that one got used for firewood by mistake.

http://www.springtimesong.com/wcforms4woodendummy.htm
"The wooden dummy is a training device that acts as a substitute for a live training partner. The movements on the dummy have been organized by Yip man into two versions. The earliest had 108 movements and the later version has 116 movements. The original dummy was just planted into the ground. The later indoor dummy was the suspended kind shown in the photo. There is also a two people version of the dummy which is known as "the live dummy." Some people also use this term to distinguish the suspended dummy from the dummy that was like a stake planted into the ground. Yip Man taught the two people version when there wasn't a wooden dummy yet. The Cheung brothers built the first wooden dummy for Yip man".

[NgGung]

According to my Sifu the very first dummy was Built by a Carpenter named Fung Shek. He only made ten dummy's before stopping. When Ip Man Died, Ip Ching (who Ip man was living with) inherited the Dummy and it was in the Ip Man Musuem in Foshan a couple years ago as I understand it from those who visited on the trip with my Sigung.

[Phil Redmond]

According to my Sifu the very first dummy was Built by a Carpenter named Fung Shek. He only made ten dummy's before stopping. When Ip Man Died, Ip Ching (who Ip man was living with) inherited the Dummy and it was in the Ip Man Musuem in Foshan a couple years ago as I understand it from those who visited on the trip with my Sigung.
I was refering to the first one made in Hong Kong. I've been aware of this fact even before I met William Cheung. Other Sifu's are aware of this as well. As you can see that a Sifu who has no affilation with William Cheung put the info on his website. I'm not sure if they made the dummy themselves. But I do know that they were given the plans to give to who ever made the first HK dummy.

[NgGung]

I was refering to the first one made in Hong Kong. I've been aware of this fact even before I met William Cheung. Other Sifu's are aware of this as well. As you can see that a Sifu who has no affilation with William Cheung put the info on his website. I'm not sure if they made the dummy themselves. But I do know that they were given the plans to give to who ever made the first HK dummy.

Sir, I do not mean to insult you or make you defensive. I only meant to be helpful and answer the gentleman's question. In fact My Sifu advised me that it is best to avoid message boards and chats lists because it is inevitable someone gets offended. In retrospect, he is probably right and would frown on my doing so. Please understand it is not my intent to do so only to share information I believe is accurate. FWIW, After reading your Post I called my sifu and asked him about this matter although I didn't tell him exactly why. I told him I can across this website.
Sifu informed me that he was aware of What Mr. Van Raamsdonk had written quite some time ago, in fact in his conversation with him, Mr. Van Raamsdonk admitted he had no personal knowledge of this and was repeating a story that he once heard told by Master Wang Kiu. He advised Sifu to contact Wang Kiu. Sifu told me at the time Master Wang was in the netherlands, (I think is what he said) and stated that he (Wang) heard this from Master Cheung Some years before and never thought anything else about it or looked into it further. In other words this is a story that Wang heard from Master Cheung and repeated Mr. Van Raamsdonk , Author of the article mention.
As I said, I Believe The first Dummy in HK was made by Fung Shek a Carpenter who lived in Hong Kong, Further my Sifu mentioned Master Chu Shong Tin has confirmed this information about the first Dummy as well (and is alive for you to ask , either in person if you speak cantonese or one of his students). I also remember Sifu Mentioning to me that Master Moy Yat recorded in his book "Legend of the Kung Fu Masters" in the section on the Dummy how the very first one in Hong Kong was made by Fung Shek and I think he also mentions how Fung came up with the idea of hanging it on slats and Yip Bo Ching was the first student taught to use it. I remember when he first received it sifu also showed me his book "Muk Yahn Jong Sum Fat "(by Ip Ching) which contains the same information as written by Moy Yat along with more pictures of the first dummy etc... Additionally,on a personal note I must also say having a father and brother in Carpentry and having done work on a Muk Yahn Jong, I simply do not believe a two teen aged boys with no carpentry experience and limited tools and resources would not only produce a dummy of that quality (if at all) but have come to the inovative solution of hanging the dummy as Fung Shek did. I think this was a bit to sophisticated, remember Master Cheung Left HK at 18 yrs old.
I having nothing against Master Cheung or yourself I am only stating that I disagree with the history you presented.

Respectfully,
Tony

[Matrix]

In fact My Sifu advised me that it is best to avoid message boards and chats lists because it is inevitable someone gets offended. In retrospect, he is probably right ....Tony,
Your sifu was definitely correct. Even if you do not intend to insult anyone, it is almost inevitable that someone will be offended by something you say. It's the nature of the beast.

Cheers,
Bill

[Phil Redmond]

Sir, I do not mean to insult you or make you defensive. I only meant to be helpful and answer the gentleman's question. In fact My Sifu advised me that it is best to avoid message boards and chats lists because it is inevitable someone gets offended. In retrospect, he is probably right and would frown on my doing so. Please understand it is not my intent to do so only to share information I believe is accurate. FWIW, After reading your Post I called my sifu and asked him about this matter although I didn't tell him exactly why. I told him I can across this website.
Sifu informed me that he was aware of What Mr. Van Raamsdonk had written quite some time ago, in fact in his conversation with him, Mr. Van Raamsdonk admitted he had no personal knowledge of this and was repeating a story that he once heard told by Master Wang Kiu. He advised Sifu to contact Wang Kiu. Sifu told me at the time Master Wang was in the netherlands, (I think is what he said) and stated that he (Wang) heard this from Master Cheung Some years before and never thought anything else about it or looked into it further. In other words this is a story that Wang heard from Master Cheung and repeated Mr. Van Raamsdonk , Author of the article mention.
As I said, I Believe The first Dummy in HK was made by Fung Shek a Carpenter who lived in Hong Kong, Further my Sifu mentioned Master Chu Shong Tin has confirmed this information about the first Dummy as well (and is alive for you to ask , either in person if you speak cantonese or one of his students). I also remember Sifu Mentioning to me that Master Moy Yat recorded in his book "Legend of the Kung Fu Masters" in the section on the Dummy how the very first one in Hong Kong was made by Fung Shek and I think he also mentions how Fung came up with the idea of hanging it on slats and Yip Bo Ching was the first student taught to use it. I remember when he first received it sifu also showed me his book "Muk Yahn Jong Sum Fat "(by Ip Ching) which contains the same information as written by Moy Yat along with more pictures of the first dummy etc... Additionally,on a personal note I must also say having a father and brother in Carpentry and having done work on a Muk Yahn Jong, I simply do not believe a two teen aged boys with no carpentry experience and limited tools and resources would not only produce a dummy of that quality (if at all) but have come to the inovative solution of hanging the dummy as Fung Shek did. I think this was a bit to sophisticated, remember Master Cheung Left HK at 18 yrs old.
I having nothing against Master Cheung or yourself I am only stating that I disagree with the history you presented.

Respectfully,
Tony

If you read my post I did say that I didn't know if they MADE the dummy. I also said
that I heard the story years ago from another source. That doesn't make it true of course. I am only telling what I heard just as most of us do. btw, this is a discussion board so I expect discussion. I don't feel insulted especially since you posed your reply respectfully like a martial artist should.

[NgGung]

Tony,
Your sifu was definitely correct. Even if you do not intend to insult anyone, it is almost inevitable that someone will be offended by something you say. It's the nature of the beast.

Cheers,
Bill

Yes Bill, I find you are right. In reading many of the post on the website it is suprising how hostile and rude some people get so quickly though. Reminds me of another thing Sifu said "A man confident in himself and his beliefs is not easily insulted".

[NgGung]

If you read my post I did say that I didn't know if they MADE the dummy. I also said
that I heard the story years ago from another source. That doesn't make it true of course. I am only telling what I heard just as most of us do. btw, this is a discussion board so I expect discussion. I don't feel insulted especially since you posed your reply respectfully like a martial artist should.

Thank you Master Redmond for you post. I appologize , I realize you did say this but that was AFTER you first post which said Master Cheung and His brother had Yip Man first Dummy Built. You also Offer an article which Said they "Built" the dummy. When I offer my information of what I was told, you respond saying everyone knew that but you were talking about the first dummy in Hong Kong. This was confusing to me because I was also talking about the first Dummy in Hong Kong, before this Yip Man students Learn on Jong buried in the ground as Leung Gai did. I have had time to ask Sifu more information and if he tought it was possible that the Cheung Brothers had the first wooden Dummy made. Sifu Said He did not believe this could be possible. Master Cheung was not mentioned by any of the persons he spoke to in person or accounts he read. Master Yip Ching account was based on what his father told him so it is second hand but this is very much like Master Chu Shong Tin account who was there first hand! Master Moy Yat written account also similar but Master Moy was not there when Yip Man first order the dummy and started Just after Master Cheung was not training with Yip Man anymore. Master Chu was on hand for Opening of the museum and note this was the first HK Dummy. Yip Man kept this first Dummy and Fung Shek Later made ten more before he stop, I think he said Leung Shung and Lok Yiu order the next ones so they can complete their dummy practice. The very first dummy Yip man liked and was later use as model for others like Koo Sang to make their own dummy. According to Master Chu who live with Yip Man until 1955, Yip Man went to Fung in 1952 and told him he wanted a Dummy but wanted to be able to use it in door. After discribing dummy he left it up to Fung Shek to figure out how to do it. Until this Dummy was finish the few students at this level Leung Shung , Lok Yiu did air dummy. Yip Man made many visits to Fung and a couple times Chu went , until Ip Man like the feeling of the slats that held up the Jong. Dummy was finish around late 1953 or early 1954. Master Chu said this was when He start to learn the dummy, before Master Wong Shun Leung start! So you see Master Cheung and his half Brother can not be involved in making or having made the first dummy!:) I am not saying this to disrespect you but just to share what I was told also. Sifu Said Anyone with a letter of permission from their Sifu can visit master Chu for training and ask him or Yip Ching for themselve. This is probably best so you can see for yourself if you believe them.

Tony

[Phil Redmond]

Like you I was passing on what I heard and read.