Greater Interconnected Kicks of Peng Lai

[Oso]

here be the official dizcussion thread...

Shibo, is this set a creation of Shiye's or something older? you said it was a grouping of 2 person drills...the drills are older and the set new?

is there a separate name for the combination kick that is a face hanging kick into a side kick?

[Tainan Mantis]

Hi Matt,
I don't think he has made up his own sets. But this set has been added on by him.
When he began teaching he started with some older form and just added a few moves each time he taught it.

This version came to be the way he taught it most. I don't think any major changes were made since then.

Most of the moves are part of two man drills or kao da.

Some are just applications.

A few are neither, such as the xuan zi, I think they call it a whirlwind kick in English, there are two at the end of the fourth road.

This form is adopted mostly from Tien shan pai and Mi ZHong Yi.

The face hanging kick side kick only goes by that name, as far as I know,'gua mien tse chuai'

This particular move is also a kao da drill.
k

[Oso]

I think I have tape of Shifu John doing part of this one time in tampa. When Da Shiye came over in 2004 we did a longish kicking practice one morning that led up to Shifu John showing a sequence of this and us trying to replicate it...I have worked it some and helped Sylvia learn that sequence and train it both sides.


I've never been able to accomplish the whirlwind kick though I've used face hanging/side kick to good effect.

[yu shan]

I will ask Shifu about this form maybe over dinner next week, and will take notes. When I was taught this form, I was just told do this so we practiced the movements. I was told nothing of the background of the form. It is a fascinating form non the less. What I am interested in hearing about are the moves being of a two man drill. Two man kicking drills are very nice and good conditioning. But right now my focus is Tanglang. Myself and a few other lucky fellows will be learning a part of Mei Hua Lu and this is more important right now. But I will ask about this kicking form.

[Tainan Mantis]

After this thread was started I decided to write an article on the kicks with a more in-depth view than usually fits in this forum.

I am no prfessional writer, but I hope that the readers can gain something interesting or at least spur new thoughts on your present kicking ideas.

www.plumflowermantisboxing.com

Kevin

[Oso]

Thanks again for another good article...eventually you will have a book! :)

[ninjaboy]

any video coverage of said same set?

that would help all us non-peng liars a bit...

hope i spelt that right...lol

must be the beer

neil

seriously though

[Oso]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwRgn8-5Rkk&feature=user

Kevin posted it in the vid clip section earlier, this was/is the discussion thread

[ninjaboy]

thanks for the link.....

well, that set's got'em all i'd have to say...got the ever-present flying mantis side-kick, the classic 'hook kick to round kick' that bill wallace clearly stole from mantis and the ever popular, tornado/whirlwind kick that everyone thinks is contemporary wushu but now we know is clearly traditional tanglang...

somebody take my beer away please...i'm getting rowdy.

neil

apologies in advance

[Oso]

Kevin gave me some history on this form but I don't want to recite it w/o checking my notes.


and, don't you know you're supposed to share?????


when are you going to be stateside again?

[Tainan Mantis]

"tornado/whirlwind kick that everyone thinks is contemporary wushu"

Chinese Opera is more like it.

There is a strong Longfist component to this form as well as the Shandong school of Mizhong Yi.

That move is not included in two man drills of kicks.
Next month I plan on putting down the sweep kick drills to go along with the uprooting kick drill I put in last month's article.

http://www.plumflowermantisboxing.com/Articles/kicks.htm


Kevin

[Tainan Mantis]

As a continuation of my kicking drills I have written another article on kicks. This move is traditionally called sweep away the rebels kick.

I hope yo enjoy it. For those who do not do Peng Lai I hope you find something of value in the article to add to your present base of knowledge.

For those who find my poorly drawn pictures an offense to the meaning of the word 'art' you have my apologies. Only due to the requests of the curious do I dare make public my own hand drawn pictures.

Kevin

www.plumflowermantisboxing.com

[mantid1]

NICE! Great Job!

[Three Harmonies]

Kevin
I am curious about the risk of getting thrown Pong Lai takes when kicking so high? Do you train a lot of Shuai in your system? If so how do you deal with the almost inevetable fact that kicking high is extremely dangerous in terms of getting tossed on your melon?
Nice article!
Jake :cool:

[Tainan Mantis]

Kicks and throws go hand in hand.

Realistically, meaning if you think you can use a kick in an actual fight, your feet need to be as quick as your hands for most of the techniques.

All the kicks have takedowns with them, just not in this article.

Kevin

[Oso]

Kick training is just that, kick training.

No one in their right mind just goes off and throws a high kick w/o setting it up.

IMO, kick training is good to develop both leg endurance and core strength and endurance.

If you never train high kicks then you are removing a tool from the box...maybe not a tool you will use very often in 'real' life but a tool nevertheless.:)

[Citong Shifu]

I really like that form (inter connecting kick), pretty cool. I agree with training high kicks, #1 - high kicking is much more difficult to train and develop than lower line kicking & #2 - High kicking develops awesome power, speed, stability, etc in itself, not to mention your low line kicking techniques. Of course, there's many other attributes developed through this type of training, just wanted to mention the more noticable aspects of this training.

I want to learn this form, Hint :D.

CS

[mantis108]

Kicking is not just a powerful offense tool training. It is also for timing, balance and coordination. In traditional training because of the emphasis on horse stances one would become flat footed. The kick training can help to remedy that.

As far as the experience that I have with Kevin's Pong Lai material, there is definitely takedown/breaking falling component with the kick training. BTW, there are also takedown with the Kao Da training as well. I believe Kevin has one of the most comprehensive material in Tanglang Training that is available.

It's great that he's sharing openly IMHO. I will recommend anyone who's interested in mantis training full time for a long time to go to him anytime. Of course if someone is in Europe I would recommend Mike Martello to him/her.

Anyway, Da Ti Shuai Na whether you are in stand up, clinch or ground should be all there.

Mantis108

[yu shan]

Ah yes, this training for my group unfortunately has been put on the back burner, not until next class that is. I agree this training is essential and will keep you in shape in your old age. It is not easy, and it is full of pain. I was taught a sweep kick drill in my early days of Peng Lai from Shifu Brazier`s kung fu brother Shifu Scolaro, which had the emphasis on the jumping face-hanging kick and the leg sweep. We trained this one outdoors in those days, made it easy to puke and come back for more. My students need to learn this training, they are young and they need to kick. We have been traing the interconnected kicks extensively. As for training to kick high, I remember being told you train this way to condition your body. It does not mean you will necessarily kick high in battle, you will be strong, flexible to execute the kicks as quick as the wind. TBH, most all the kicking I am being taught as of late is to the center of the universe, my nuts. Many of the kicking drills we are doing now are based on busting the other fellows stones. This area is our target, we train to hit the target and the other side best block or you will be talking like Michael Jackson. Well I better break out the puke bucket if Shifu is going teach sweep kick drills.

[Three Harmonies]

Kevin - I guess I meant more in regards to defense and prevention type training to avoid getting thrown when using high kicks. I agree they are useful in certain situations, I was just curious about the takedown defense in Pong Lai's stuff.
Thanks,
Jake

[Tainan Mantis]

This thread has gone to a lot of highkick talk.

But the drill is not teaching high kicks, it is teaching low kicks.

The side kick, once the drill gets going is almost always a kick to the knee. You can throw in rib kicks if you like, but it is mostly to the knee.

The next two kicks are for taking out the legs so they are low kicks to.

The only high kick might not even be a kick at all, it is just jumping over the sweep kick.

In the drill the jump can be trained as a jump kick high, a jump kick low, or after you get too tired, you ust be jumping. ANway will do, but you are learning how to turn your body over and keep it in a good position for delivering blows.

Hope that helps.

Kevin

[Three Harmonies]

Sorry. The drawings and pics look like they are executed high. Just a question.
Jake

[TaichiMantis]

We always train bringing back a kick faster than we throw it out, otherwise, as Jake mentioned, you make yourself vulnerable to a counter. I also agree with Robert that it is good to train to the top of your range, for balance, knowing your center, etc. Would I ever use a kick to the head in a street fight? probably not...;).

[TaichiMantis]

most all the kicking I am being taught as of late is to the center of the universe, my nuts. Many of the kicking drills we are doing now are based on busting the other fellows stones. This area is our target, we train to hit the target and the other side best block or you will be talking like Michael Jackson. Well I better break out the puke bucket if Shifu is going teach sweep kick drills.


*gulp* so does this go along with your iron crotch training?:eek::p