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stubbs
05-19-2001, 03:49 PM
my knowledge in meditation is very limited, but I have been tought a basic method which involves sitting with your legs crossed, back upright, then you have to focus on the air passing in and out of the top of the nose or on the outside of the nostrel.

I found this very effective as was just wondering if anyone could give me any other effective focal points or thoughts that may help.

Thanks in advance.

"satisfaction loses, humility gains"

joedoe
05-20-2001, 02:11 AM
The Dantien.

-------------------------------------
You have no chance to survive - make your time.

prana
05-21-2001, 02:13 AM
stubbs,

What you seem to be practising falls under the Annapanna-Sati meditation whereby one watches the breath and starves useless chatter of the mind.

It is equivalent to sharpening the mind to penetrate to the depths via concentration. This meditation is as taught by Buddha Gautama as the most simple effective method of meditation for quieting the mind and attaining samadhi.

Regardless whether the mind is focussed on the breath, after a while, the physical body is realised as a mass encompassed in the air of breath.

...

There are many other forms of meditation at which this is one. As ABANDIT pointed out, the Dan Tien is also a very common one.

What is occupying that corpse you call 'I' ?

Kung Lek
05-21-2001, 05:22 AM
hi-

some focus points can also be a point on a wall while still having awareness of the breathing.

or a candle through mostly closed eyes. Or use your ears instead and focus on no sound or a sound that is present. Or use your sense of smell or taste and well, you get the idea.

there's a lot to choose from. :)

peace

Kung Lek

Internal Flow
05-31-2001, 01:42 PM
Under the navel?
In the middle of your closed eyelid?
Between your eyes?
On a sacred word?
On the rythm of your breath?

All things return to it as to their home, but it does not lord it over them.
Thus it may be called "The Great"

Repulsive Monkey
06-16-2001, 01:50 AM
try not to think of other things to think of when meditating. Go for the ultimate if you can i.e. relinquishing thought altogether and allowing conscious thought to fade away. If things get too quiet then you may be falling alseep but try to ignore sensations of an external nature as they can detract from calm abiding. Remember when ever you get an idea in your mind (whether it be irrelevant,sexual,funny,spiritual,nonsensical,dist urbing,insightful etc) you know its time to start all over again. At these momenst go back to breath watching. Kalu Rinpoches book "Luminous Mind" is a wonderful study on the nature of the mind in meditation. Very well worth a read.

jhana
07-19-2001, 01:52 AM
While meditating, I start by breathing in from the left nostril, out through the right, then in from both nostrils and out both nostrils, then through the right and left then both.... you get the idea? This ensures that you are breathing equally with both nostrils.

After a while, when you are comfortable, stop alternating between nostrils and start with both and focus on one area in between the left and right just under the nose. After a while, the breathing will have it's own rhythmn. Just watch it, try not to control it and if you're thoughts wonder, just calmly return to that point.

This technique has helped me tremendously, it may help you but if what you are doing is helping, you should continue as you are. I don't think that the method is important, just the persistance in quieting down your mind is. What ever works best for you!

Scott R. Brown
07-23-2001, 12:03 PM
When mediating, mentally focusing on an object is a tool that will eventually have to be discarded. Mental focus is used to keep distracting thoughts from wandering across your attention field. You will find that thoughts will continue to creep in. It is best to train your mind to passively and receptively observe the thoughts move through your attention field as if you were watching leaves flow past you in a stream. Do not follow the thought/leaf with your mind allow it to continue on its way without obstructing its flow by focusing on it. This method is preferable because the total suppression of thought is impossible, therefore when you are mediating to suppress thoughts you are participating in a futile endeavor. You may become frustrated with the futile endeavor, which will be detrimental to your progress. If you practice quiet observation without attachment from the beginning, you will being going with the flow (Tao) of your mind and accepting its function and not fighting it.

I hope this helps,
Sincerely,

Scott

prana
07-24-2001, 01:29 AM
not necessarily is one better than the other. One might understand one more than another, and Buddha taught each and every one of his disciples a technique that is suited for them.

A wise mind does not discriminate if one is better than the other. They are all one and the same techniques. The trainee will stumble in this and fall into the Buddhamind.

This was taught to me, the very first lesson about Buddhism as far back as I can remember. Also, you need only plant the seed, and the law of Dhamma will ensure its fruition, provided one is to help others.

The only one UNIVERSAL law that Buddha did teach, change is only constant. The only one technique he taught always was that of compassion. He taught that by simply being.....

Recognise the vivid blue lights of Lord Vairochana.
Recognise the blinding white lights of Lord Aksobhya.
Recognise the brilliant yellow lights of Lord Ratnasambhava.
Recognise the fiery red lights of Lord Amithaba.
Recognise the pure green lights of Lord Amoghasiddhi.

prana
07-24-2001, 01:31 AM
good point, eventually, even meditation is a hindrance to progress :)

Recognise the vivid blue lights of Lord Vairochana.
Recognise the blinding white lights of Lord Aksobhya.
Recognise the brilliant yellow lights of Lord Ratnasambhava.
Recognise the fiery red lights of Lord Amithaba.
Recognise the pure green lights of Lord Amoghasiddhi.

Scott R. Brown
07-24-2001, 03:02 AM
Prana,

I agree with you to a certain point, however the mind functions with thoughts continuously flowing through the conscious mind. Certainly if it is easier, because of a persons individual characteristics, to utilize a specific technique it will give them benefit, but some methods will eventually have to be dispense with. My thoughts grow out of a Taoist/Zen perspective. I believe that if one can accommodate themselves to the natural functioning of the mind fewer barriers to their growth will arise. In other words if someone is taking a hike and they come to a fork in the road and I am familiar with the trail along both forks, I might say something like; If you go down this fork there will be a large tree in the way, and a den of poisonous snakes and a rushing river to ford. But, if you go down this trail you will find rolling hills and shade trees. Some people prefer adventure to the easy way that is true and life is more how you negotiate the process rather than where you end up, but these are ideas that are generally not completely understood by beginners. The smooth effortless way, I believe, will give more benefit to beginners because it will provide them with early successes that are necessary to provide the motivation to continue their efforts, especially for those without someone to give them guidance as they make the journey. Our modern society does not provide the same social support for priestly (spiritual) behavior that India did in the 700’s B.C. Most people motivate themselves in our society, and early successes are important to the process.

Also, maybe “better” is not the best term. Perhaps “more efficient”, “more beneficial”, or “less obstructive” would be better descriptions. While it is one of Buddhism’s goals to transcend distinctions, it is important to remember that it is the “emotional attachment” to the consequences of making distinctions that we are attempting to transcend. Life cannot be lived without making distinctions. Every time you make a choice between two or more things, you are making a distinction and therefore a value judgment. It is a common error to think that not making value judgments is the same as not making distinctions. Every choice involves a value judgment.


Sincerely,

Scott

prana
07-24-2001, 04:01 AM
well said Scott :)

Recognise the vivid blue lights of Lord Vairochana.
Recognise the blinding white lights of Lord Aksobhya.
Recognise the brilliant yellow lights of Lord Ratnasambhava.
Recognise the fiery red lights of Lord Amithaba.
Recognise the pure green lights of Lord Amoghasiddhi.

stubbs
07-24-2001, 08:03 PM
I was also wondering about the use of candles in meditation. At the moment i'm trying exercises that help your eyes by staring at a candle flame. When i closed my eyes i had a really nice calming feeling looking at the flame through my eyelids ( all you see is redness wobbling with your eyes closed).

Does anyone else have any comments of using candles in meditation?

"satisfaction loses,and humility gains"

Scott R. Brown
07-24-2001, 11:40 PM
Stubbs,

The exercise of concentration on a candle’s flame is a tool used to develop the ability to concentrate on one thing. The calming effect you experience is just a by-product of the exercise and would occur regardless of the meditation method your practice. It is the mental attitude you bring to the exercise that determines your results. Mediation by its nature is calming. If it works for you great, keep an open mind when you meditate. Something you like now, or something that works for you today, may become something else tomorrow or next year. I tend to use a variety of meditation techniques depending on my mood and purpose at the time.

Sincerely,

Scott