The Ultimate Wing CHun Demonstration

[edward]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_Ui6rj58DA0

Just incredible

[VingDragon]

hahaha, high five for that show! :D

[sanjuro_ronin]

I don't get it...:(

[edward]

perfectly understandable that you dont'

[sanjuro_ronin]

perfectly understandable that you dont'

I mean, is the title in good humour?

[CFT]

I mean, is the title in good humour?Augustine Fong is edward's (Ed Cruz) sifu.

[Liddel]

I mean, is the title in good humour?

Dont even start bro, i offered a little criticism of a clip Ed has on youtube...

Bassically he told me i cant punch prorperly ??? LOL poor me.

Its "unbelieveable", leave it at that :rolleyes: LOL

DREW

[The Xia]

What was the throw at the end?

[EugeneS]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_Ui6rj58DA0

Just incredible

Oops! :) no moor

[Liddel]

What was the throw at the end?

WWF /WWE

Hulk Hogan did it back in the 80's.

[YungChun]

Dont even start bro, i offered a little criticism of a clip Ed has on youtube...

Bassically he told me i cant punch prorperly ??? LOL poor me.

Its "unbelieveable", leave it at that :rolleyes: LOL

DREW
Yeah it IS funny, everyone thinks their version is "right" some more so than others.. :eek::o:cool:

I just look at the basic tenants of the system, the core ideas in the system and see who is doing that and how much of it.. Just because some may or may not be good fighters doesn't have much to do with what is WCK--lots of good fighters who don't "do" WCK out there.

As for punching, well perhaps we need to allow more flexibility into technique expression so long as it's actually a WCK technique and not a WWF move.. :)

[sanjuro_ronin]

Augustine Fong is edward's (Ed Cruz) sifu.

Its a nice chi sao demo, no doubt, but I was just confused about the "ultimate" part.
I though maybe he was being sarcastic.

[LoneTiger108]

What was the throw at the end?

IMHO it was a Po Pye used as a throw, but that's just the way I see it I guess.

Fong Sifu is well repected, or so I thought! I have seen a few clips like this before, and this one looks like he was showing some mainland type stuff too (lap sau and takedowns) Again, I know too little of his background so I'll leave this for others to contribute.

Still, a good clean demo and something we can all learn from. Be open! Hmm, I feel a new thread coming on...

[YungChun]

Fong is one of the best wing chun fighters out there...

To me the man could be the best…

I could care less on how he ends his demo because everyone here seen nothing but pure wing chun at it’s finest, he could have thrown a chair for all I care at the end of this demo that wouldn’t make me look differently at his ability or at his person (a real stand up guy)…

The man probably could kick everybody’s butt here on this forum… if he chose to drop someone one his head then so be it, he showed complete domination of the situation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-232DNU8_TI

His WCK has it's own flavor.. Personally, by way of a known example, I think Lam is better:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IY-SFrvv1RI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-nzYelB89Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPXlQBETE-g

With his moves we see a better example of core system components and less 'stylized' hand games.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I have always like Gary's stuff, though it seems he likes pushing people way too much :D

And the original clip was great too, again I was just confused with the whole "ultimate" tag that's all.

[Ali. R]

All good masters push, pull and jerk (you know the gay stuffs) their opponents around, that is the level of high understanding, dealing with destroying structure and balance (the tai chi connection)…


Ali Rahim.

[YungChun]

I have always like Gary's stuff, though it seems he likes pushing people way too much :D

And the original clip was great too, again I was just confused with the whole "ultimate" tag that's all.

And when he does that we get to see more correct mechanics, distance and use of body power.. Something not possible when the technique is considered sucsessful because someone is in touching range.. Big difference there alone IMO.

[sanjuro_ronin]

And when he does that we get to see more correct mechanics, distance and use of body power.. Something not possible when the technique is considered sucsessful because someone is in touching range.. Big difference there alone IMO.

Agreed, he just seems to enjoy it a little too much ;)

[YungChun]

Agreed, he just seems to enjoy it a little too much ;)

Yeah well... LOL It still shows good body power... :)

In one of his videos the partner got plastered into the mattress so hard and so many times I swear I thought the kid was going to pass out. :eek: Then he started in with ground impact moves and did one a little too hard--ooops... :D

[Mr Punch]

It was a chi sao demo. It's impossible to know the quality beyond 'it looks quite good'... And no disrespect to Mr Fong or his line but why the hell was this 'ultimate' anything? :confused: Silly gimmick.

BTW, the commentator mentioned something about 'this type of hand exercise being used by professional football teams'. Anyone know who the commentator was? Was he Augustine Fong's line? And presumably the info came from the line... any of you Fong types know which pro-football teams use chi sao?

[sanjuro_ronin]

It was a chi sao demo. It's impossible to know the quality beyond 'it looks quite good'... And no disrespect to Mr Fong or his line but why the hell was this 'ultimate' anything? :confused: Silly gimmick.

BTW, the commentator mentioned something about 'this type of hand exercise being used by professional football teams'. Anyone know who the commentator was? Was he Augustine Fong's line? And presumably the info came from the line... any of you Fong types know which pro-football teams use chi sao?

I recall hearing that the Dallas cowboys offensive line did some a while back.

[drleungjohn]

The NY Jets offensive an defensive players because I taught them-from 97-2005

[Vajramusti]

Some comments on context:There have been and are various Chinese martial arts meets.
Jeff Bolt ran several of them-early years in Houston in the 80s then in Florida in the 90s.

This U tube shot is from one of those meets where Augustine Fong was invited to demonstrate chi sao. Fong did not do the commentary and Fong said nothing about football teams.

Chi sao is not fighting but is part of what can prepare a wing chun person for fighting if that is their goal.Of course there are other variables involved in a wing chun approach to martial activity besides chi sao- conditioning, strategy,tactics,practical experience among other things.
The old demo now on U tube just shows a compressed capsule of wing chun skills via dynamic chi sao and includes control and flow. Bong, tan, fok, wu, biu, bok, jong etc are all there and the clip also shows balance and footwork and timing and other principles of positioning, distance, knowledge of lines-opening and closing them. One doesnt have to learn taichi for explosive tui shou or be hulk hogan to throw.Balance and leverage principles are natural phenomenona in the case of a skilled individual.

A real fight can be short and quick-but other preparations go into being both quick and powerful
for those few moments.

The motions in the demo are all based on wing chun and the logic is in the forms.Skillfull people
find applications for them. Some folks commented on whether they prefer someone else's demo.
Thats their choice and I dont care to compare at this point ona chat list.Wing chun folks shouldnt tear up each other -if possible or unwarranted specially in a wing chun forum.

"Ultimate" was ed's choice of words just as "ultimate" is Dana White's choice ina different context and in a different activity. Labels.

joy chaudhuri

[edward]

i dont' know if i can define ultimate any clearer

[sanjuro_ronin]

i dont' know if i can define ultimate any clearer

Didn't mean to blow it out of proportion, just that when you said ULTIMATE and after seeing the clip, great one nevertheless, I was confused as to wether you were serious or being sarcastic.

Ultimate means just that:

Definitions of ultimate on the Web:

* furthest or highest in degree or order; utmost or extreme; "the ultimate achievement"; "the ultimate question"; "man's ultimate destiny"; "the ...
* being the last or concluding element of a series; "the ultimate sonata of that opus"; "a distinction between the verb and noun senses of `conflict' is that in the verb the stress is on the ultimate (or last) syllable"
* the finest or most superior quality of its kind; "the ultimate in luxury"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

[Vajramusti]

Thanks-I should send those definitions to my school and college in India where the moto was-
nihil ultra---none/nothing above. Could you send them to Dana White as well?

joy chaudhuri

[sanjuro_ronin]

Thanks-I should send those definitions to my school and college in India where the moto was-
nihil ultra---none/nothing above. Could you send them to Dana White as well?

joy chaudhuri

Don't get me started on the groin ache Dana or Joe Rogan, that asswipe.

[Vajramusti]

should have been motto. Sorry for the two finger typing in imperfect lighting. Not ultimate in typing fer sure.

joy chaudhuri

[Ali. R]

One doesnt have to learn taichi for explosive tui shou or be hulk hogan to throw.Balance and leverage principles are natural phenomenona in the case of a skilled individual.


joy chaudhuri



I totally agree with that statement… In fact some of the same energies and principles can be found in tai chi when playing chi sao and it could be very easy for one to cross over into wing chun from tai chi…

By dealing with the same principles such as “chum” (and many more), just like any other fighting art should (not so hard fighting styles), it becomes a “strong stance or based fighting system", in which really promotes a great deal of softness in the upper extremities, meaning that there are some strong connections in ideal of taking the balance away from their opponents, dealing with both systems…


Take care,


Ali Rahim.

[Mr Punch]

"Ultimate" was ed's choice of words just as "ultimate" is Dana White's choice ina different context and in a different activity. Labels.So it's the same use as Dana's? A marketing tool... scam... whatever... just words.


i dont' know if i can define ultimate any clearer You haven't defined it at all yet.


* furthest or highest in degree or order; utmost or extreme; "the ultimate achievement"; "the ultimate question"; "man's ultimate destiny"; "the ...
* being the last or concluding element of a series; "the ultimate sonata of that opus"; "a distinction between the verb and noun senses of `conflict' is that in the verb the stress is on the ultimate (or last) syllable"
* the finest or most superior quality of its kind; "the ultimate in luxury"See, I suspect you meant the last one Ed, but you might have meant the first. Do you understand the difference? So, this is a 'my lineage is the best' thread essentially?

Ah, **** this. There is no dialogue any more, just meaningless tripe. I give up.

[Mr Punch]

BTW, nice demo. I like Fong's way of movement. Don't let my rant about the decline of basic communication and human existance in general detract from that.

[Vajramusti]

ed didn't do any marketing. It was just a demo per request of the organizers of the event. You seem to be stuck on quibbling over the usages of a word.

I had seen that video before on TV not on U Tube. I had a sense of what to look for and in sharing look at the structure-not crumbling under pressure....relaxed, not tense, mobility when appropriate, chinna quick timing takedown, leg usage in destabilization. square body-double handed controls. No western boxing, no free style or greco Roman wrestling, no Kodokan judo-
just a snip of an appproach to wing chun.

No marketing involved. No chain store promotion. No harm.Just fun.

joy chaudhuri

[chisauking]

I like this demo! Sifu Fong seems to have the ability to absorb force in the same way as all good wing chun people: G. Lam, TST, Yip Man. Even though his opponent is bigger than him, and pressing forward during the roll, sifu Fong can still retain his composure and he still doesn't take a single step back(clue).

OK, the WWT, WFT, WTF throw wasn't my cup of tea...but it shows sifu Fong has a sense of humour.

take the clip for what it is: a light hearted demo.

[Vajramusti]

A sensible post.

joy chaudhuri

[YungChun]

Thats their choice and I dont care to compare at this point ona chat list.Wing chun folks shouldnt tear up each other -if possible or unwarranted specially in a wing chun forum.

"Ultimate" was ed's choice of words just as "ultimate" is Dana White's choice ina different context and in a different activity. Labels.

Not tear each other up, okay..

But if folks are going to put something out there in the way of another demo..and then call it 'the ultimate demo' (because it's their teacher) then I think it's reasonable to comment on and/or critique the "demo".

While I agree there was certainly valid WCK elements in the demo I also think there were core parts that were missing and often are. Again, if one holds out something as the Ultimate, and stands by the idea, then counter points are IMO not only valid but useful..

[Tom Kagan]

Fong is one of the best wing chun fighters out there ...

Since this is the "ultimate", it stands to reason no more demonstrations are necessary and we'll get to see more videos of actual fighting within the near future.

[Ali. R]

Since this is the "ultimate", it stands to reason no more demonstrations are necessary and we'll get to see more videos of actual fighting within the near future.

I retract my statement and let me just say, he could be one of the best… :o


Ali Rahim.

[g-bells]

I retract my statement and let me just say, he could be one of the best… :o


Ali Rahim.

Do you check your PM box Ali?