How is Lama Pai Different?

[rogue]

Didn't want to derail the CTS thread.


Originally Posted by lkfmdc
And finally, yes, Lama is different than most TCMA systems, and it may have been a surprise. As open as it is today, it still surprises people when they see it up close. Very different than most TCMA

Dave, How so? What is different about it?

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

It's the only style based on a animal that can't actually fight. :p

[Drake]

It's the only style based on a animal that can't actually fight. :p

The Dupisha Ignoramus? I heard they were extinct.

[lkfmdc]

running out the door, but will get to this later

[jdhowland]

Rogue, if you don't mind I'll jump in here with my two cents worth until you get a response from Dave. I'm several time zones away from him, so I can lurk while the eastern seaboard is asleep. Mwa-ha-ha!

There are several old threads here you can dig up that discuss the odd non-chineseness of lama. In brief, there are some similarities to boxing which also gained respect among some chinese fighters for its aggressive, simple approach and emphasis on head shots. Some of lama's noted qualities are the constantly shifting footwork and evasive bodywork, an almost haughty, arrogant disregard for the opponent's "bridge" (don't let him dictate your response, just keep attacking) and the familiarity with all ranges of combat.

There is a current thread about power generation in lama.

Hope this helps.

John H.

[KFNOOB]

Is Lama to be learned before or after you have more experience elsewhere? I am confused on that. There are to schools of thought even within the CTS community. One Sifu says you need to learn Lama first because he then teaches CLF which is more difficult (maybe I misheard him). Here, they say the opposite (and I think they know better here).

[jdhowland]

Is Lama to be learned before or after you have more experience elsewhere? I am confused on that. There are to schools of thought even within the CTS community. One Sifu says you need to learn Lama first because he then teaches CLF which is more difficult (maybe I misheard him). Here, they say the opposite (and I think they know better here).

Good question. I'm not from the CTS line so Mike or Dave might have different opinions, (and I'd love to hear them). I'm in my fourth decade of training in both traditions and I have some pretty strong opinions about the subject.

First, lama is not meant to be learned after something else. It is it's own complete system. It is also notoriously difficult to learn and to teach. For this reason, many instructors who teach multiple systems let a student have a few years of experience in something else before teaching lama. Another reason for this is that lama schools were traditionally secretive to protect their unorthodox methods and many teachers hold it in reserve while they teach something more open-to-the-public.

CLF's fast flurries of circular and corkscrewing techniques make it appear to be more complex. But it is also known as one of the easiest systems to master.

My advice is to learn CLF if you want reliable self defense skills with just a few years of training. Devote a lifetime to lama if you want to develop an uncommon level of skill with timing and positional superiority. I just teach as I was taught: first, lama basics. Second CLF sets, gradually introducing basics and applications. Last, lama sets, applications and sparring.

Is one system better than the other? In the past CLF has defeated Lama. Lama has defeated CLF. I had two teachers who learned both as did Chan Tai San.

As Stan Lee used to say, " 'Nuff said."

[hskwarrior]

Imo Its Not The Style, But The Practitioner That Makes The Difference.

Clf Can Take Up To 3 Lifetimes To Master..........and Thats Why My Sifu Has Always Said To Find Your Favorite Techniques And Master Those.

Clf Has Beaten Muay Thai Fighters, And Wing Chun. But It Goes Back And Forth.

Clf Is Hard To Learn If You Don't Have A Previous Martial Art Background.

[Shaolindynasty]

I practice both CLF and Lama. They are more similar than different. Lama has a "heavier"(best way i could describe it) power than CLF. CLF uses allot of loose whipping motions.

As for the "non chinese-ness"(is that a word?) lama is similar to other southern styles like clf, hung ga etc.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Lama Pai is great, I prefer apple or lemon merangue myself, Lama Pai is a tad to furry for my taste.
:p

Many systems are best studied with a sold foundation in something else like SPM for example, but can still be done by a rookie.

[lkfmdc]

I don't mean to be offensive to anyone, but if you are using Lama techniques like other Chinese martial arts systems, ie using bridges, blocking, sticking, etc then you are basicly doing more CLF or maybe some lineages of Pak Hok

Lama Pai does not use bridges, in fact, you really shouldn't even block. It is about angles, intercepting, simultaneously countering, etc. The footwork is VERY different. There are also the principles of "chaan" and the "si ji fatt"

[sanjuro_ronin]

I don't mean to be offensive to anyone, but if you are using Lama techniques like other Chinese martial arts systems, ie using bridges, blocking, sticking, etc then you are basicly doing more CLF or maybe some lineages of Pak Hok

Lama Pai does not use bridges, in fact, you really shouldn't even block. It is about angles, intercepting, simultaneously countering, etc. The footwork is VERY different. There are also the principles of "chaan" and the "si ji fatt"

Sounds like JKD to me :D
Maybe even lionsroar.....;)

[jdhowland]

I practice both CLF and Lama. They are more similar than different. Lama has a "heavier"(best way i could describe it) power than CLF. CLF uses allot of loose whipping motions.

As for the "non chinese-ness"(is that a word?)

Nah. I just like to make up words in my lighter moments. What I meant to say was "anti-chineseiosity."

[Shaolindynasty]

Lama Pai does not use bridges, in fact, you really shouldn't even block. It is about angles, intercepting, simultaneously countering, etc. The footwork is VERY different. There are also the principles of "chaan" and the "si ji fatt"


Ok thats true. I was referring more to the way forms look.

[jdhowland]

... if you are using Lama techniques like other Chinese martial arts systems, ie using bridges, blocking, sticking, etc then you are basicly doing more CLF or maybe some lineages of Pak Hok


Yes. This can't be emphasized enough. Although lama and CLF are sometimes called "sister styles" because of certain similarities (e.g. "loose" power generated from the waist and some techniques in common) their strategies are quite different and if you try to blend them you lose the method entirely.

CLF is from Mars. Lama is from Hades.

[lkfmdc]

the forms look the same on the outside, but are very different in essence, an important point to remember

[rogue]

Dave, John,
Thanks for the responses, and forgive what may seem like dumb questions.

What makes Lama harder to learn? Is Lama closer to Western style of fighting?

Dave, is there something on your 3 Sanda vids that are particularly Lama?

Thanks guys.

[lkfmdc]

Lama is the frame work of everything I teach, but at times frames need to be filled in at certain places

The first thing I teach as far as defense is parrying and shielding. This can lead to clinching. All very effective forms of defense, and also pretty quickly grasped. Unfortunately, according to Lama theory, we don't do these! We "sim", we evade, we slip, we duck, we weave, etc

now my intermediate students start to learn how to do a lot of this. The "chat sing bouh" sets up a lot of our counters and intermediate to advanced level attacks. But you have to have developed the ability to "see" these angles and these attacks, and even then, there are times when you are not quick enough IMO and you STILL have to parry or shield

The most basic drill we do is parrying a jab. I often (frequently) have students who take a few classes to figure this out. Can you imagine if I tried to teach those same students the lama approach with is a minute slip and simultaneous counter attack?

Am I making sense?

[jdhowland]

Dave, John,
Thanks for the responses, and forgive what may seem like dumb questions.

What makes Lama harder to learn? Is Lama closer to Western style of fighting?




What the heck is a dumb question?

This is a bit simplistic, but here goes...
The beginning student has a lot to learn in comprehending the best way to fit into a partner's or opponent's negative space. Lama footwork and body manouvers are designed to emphasize this skill.

If you imagine a continuum of fighting applications beginning with strictly defensive/responsive moves through block-or-deflect-then-counter, through deflect-and-counter-at-the-same-time, to drug-crazed-foaming-at-the-mouth-all-out aggression you'll find that a lot of good systems start near the beginnig of the spectrum and gradually teach the student to combine defense and offense more efficiently. Lama starts closer to the right hand end of the continuum than most styles. We start by being stupid. "Blocking? What's blocking?" Lama's first tenet is that of "chahn" or the intent of ruthless destruction. Learning to evade, penetrate and intercept while maintaining this first principle is difficult and dangerous. The student gets hit...a lot. It's old style.

As far as "closer to western.." lama and boxing are completely different in approach and goals but there are some sequences that look similar. If you mean only as far west as India...maybe so.

[rogue]

Am I making sense?

Yup!

We "sim", we evade, we slip, we duck, we weave, etc

I'll go out on a limb and assume that while similar to what a boxer does the Lama techniques would be more varied and use more angles than a boxer would since the targeting and tools would be greater than what's available in the ring. Would that be correct?


We start by being stupid. "Blocking? What's blocking?"

FWIW The guy I've been studying with starts everyone out with slipping, turning and blading to get you over the mindset that getting hit is to be avoided at all cost. After that the hands came in to help the slipping, turning and blading if needed, but mostly for countering. Blocks are in there too but they're closer to clears and destructions than actual blocks. This is very different than what I was learning in regular karate where stopping the other guy's strike was always the most important thing, as getting touched was bad.

Was Lama Pai developed on it's own or as a response to the normal Chinese ideas of fighting?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Lama Pai also has some limb destruction too, right? to the wrist, forearm and shoulder correct? ( To name just a few).

[jdhowland]

Was Lama Pai developed on it's own or as a response to the normal Chinese ideas of fighting?


Ah, another good question!

Probably a little of both, as unsatisfactory as that might sound.

We know that it came from a culturally distinct part of China and should expect it to be somewhat peculiar.

There is also an oral tradition that mentions a turning point in the development of Lama Kyuhn. When Sing Lung traveled with his four disciples through northern China they usually won fighting contests based on their wrestling skills but were sometimes defeated by boxing techniques. By emphasizing their unique striking strategies they were eventually able to beat the Chinese at their own game.
Source: Harvey Tse (sometime in the mid '70s).

[lkfmdc]

Oral tradition, the style was created after the inspiration of watching a crane peck at a monkey while flying out of the reach of the monkey's grasp. From this came the "8 character true essence" which basicly translated as "strike vulnerable areas while staying out of reach of attacks" (ie strike and then avoid)

[sanjuro_ronin]

Oral tradition, the style was created after the inspiration of watching a crane peck at a monkey while flying out of the reach of the monkey's grasp. From this came the "8 character true essence" which basicly translated as "strike vulnerable areas while staying out of reach of attacks" (ie strike and then avoid)

Is there a hidden sexual innuendo in there somewhere ?

[lkfmdc]

Is there a hidden sexual innuendo in there somewhere ?

the original name of the style, based upon how the crane handled the situation, was "spank the monkey fist" but that didn't seem to catch on :D

[sanjuro_ronin]

the original name of the style, based upon how the crane handled the situation, was "spank the monkey fist" but that didn't seem to catch on :D

Bah, Puritans !

[diego]

So many have found it helps to get a standard base be it hungga choy li fut kajukenbo or whatever styles peeps have combined with the tibet methods.
Choy li fut has beaten muay thai, so the next question is if it's so hard to use lama then how realistic is it as a fighting art vs someone like a thai specialist?...ross you always **** on that TWC fight vs tai chi in the 50's...is this Lama theory, just that, I'm sure some are wondering if it is so good why can't it beat muay thai...do we have any like hop gar kickboxers on historical record?.

[bakxierboxer]

Lama Pai is great, I prefer apple or lemon merangue myself, Lama Pai is a tad to furry for my taste. :p

Last time I was in the bakery I saw the Lama Pies located right next to those Meadow Muffins..... :rolleyes:


Many systems are best studied with a sold foundation in something else like SPM for example, but can still be done by a rookie.

That sounds a bit backwards from what I think you meant.... :confused:

[KFNOOB]

Is it a fact that Lama should be taught after CLF? One of the CTS guys in Plainview do it opposite. Teach Lama first. You can click under "KUng Fu" then "Styles" to see. Some may disagree here nut he is a CTS student according to the website and every time I do research he comes up as a CLF guy.

http://www.maxfit.us/

[cjurakpt]

Is it a fact that Lama should be taught after CLF? One of the CTS guys in Plainview do it opposite. Teach Lama first. You can click under "KUng Fu" then "Styles" to see. Some may disagree here nut he is a CTS student according to the website and every time I do research he comes up as a CLF guy.

http://www.maxfit.us/

you really are an idiot

[KFNOOB]

Physical Therapist Jurak I am offended. Are you following this thread? My post is perfectly in line with this thread. I do not pretend to be an authority on KF but others here are debating or giving opinions on Lama's difficulty yet one instructor clearly teaches Lama first then AFTER getting your black sash you learn CLF. You dont think this is an important distinction?

Bad day? Wife telling you to clean the garage? What have I done to you?

[lkfmdc]

Chris was just being nice, you are really an f-in tool.....

PS: it would be nice if he had actually learned any Lama before he actually tried to teach it

[jo]

Sounds like JKD to me :D
Maybe even lionsroar.....;)

Would that be the LionsRoar as taught by Steve Richards via videotape? :rolleyes:

-jo

[sanjuro_ronin]

Would that be the LionsRoar as taught by Steve Richards via videotape? :rolleyes:

-jo

I have no idea what you are taking about, though I have seen clips of Steve and a few others, there was never any indication of instructional in any way.
The last ones I saw of him and Mr.Tavares were quite good actually.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Last time I was in the bakery I saw the Lama Pies located right next to those Meadow Muffins..... :rolleyes:



That sounds a bit backwards from what I think you meant.... :confused:

LOL !
yes, quite correct, I meant that a system like SPM is best studied AFTER a solid foundation in another one.
:D

[KFNOOB]

Chris was just being nice, you are really an f-in tool.....

PS: it would be nice if he had actually learned any Lama before he actually tried to teach it

I guess you are going to hijack this thread also. I state facts. This thread is about differences in Lama Pai. Fact: There are different viewpoints even within the Chan Tai San lineage. One instructor says you should teach Lama after learning CLF and another says opposite.

Some of you are a very po0r representation of your art. Ventura is well spoken, speaks nothing bad of anyone from what we know and doesnt seem to spend all day on message boards pounding his chest about how much he knows. Same with Gomez. For whatever reason they arent into these childish games.

The other CTS students are still fighting after all these years.

It's rather sad, actually.

I speak facts and get cursed at. You just want this thread to go the usual route of "I know more because I drive CTS around for years and translated for him BLA BLA BLA"

I guess this forum is your only link to the past. No one really cares about you anyway. If it was so great you'd have Lama all over your site. Instead you have SANDA because, lets face it, no one wants to learn that other stuff anymore...at least not enough to pay the rent so you being a businessman you flip the switch to SANDA-MMA to get the people in. When the students arent coming in, throw up the MMA sign!

SELL OUT!

Everyone should go to www.bullshido.net and look up LKFMDC's posts and see how he shamelessly tried to run his fellow CTS student out of business. Over and over, literally, he kept making allegations....they demanded proff of which he could not provide. Went on for long time....like he does here, David just kept going on....without shame..trying to hurt another CTS student....bullshido wanted proof....he disappeared. Shameless...CTS would be quite proud.

We look at Ventura as the senior guy now as far as CTS....he is not thrilled with your behavior.....I dont care what he tells you. He is not thrilled.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Physical Therapist Jurak I am offended. Are you following this thread? My post is perfectly in line with this thread. I do not pretend to be an authority on KF but others here are debating or giving opinions on Lama's difficulty yet one instructor clearly teaches Lama first then AFTER getting your black sash you learn CLF. You dont think this is an important distinction?

Bad day? Wife telling you to clean the garage? What have I done to you?

No one can say whether CLF or Lama should be taught first. It's really only a matter of opinion. I've taught both simultaneously and taught each one before the other at different times. Lama is a very different style from 'shaolin' types styles as we know them today, that's all. It uses completely different strategies and theories. It's not harder to learn per se, than other styles. In fact, I believe that the basics, from physical point of view, are usually easier than a style like CLF. (For the most part, anyway, there are a few techniques which students seem to take a long time to really understand).

I think an arguement for either side can be made; teach a student Lama first, so they don't have to unlearn anything. OR teach it to them after they have a few years experience in other arts so they can grasp the complexity of the fighting concepts.

I'm sure I can come up with at least a half o-dozen points for either side, so really...what's the point?

I don't think anyone is going to 'bite' if you are going after Maxfit. We've all contributed what we could as far as verifying claims. I can only tell of my experiences with him from many years ago. He very well might be a great teacher and talented martial artist now. Who knows? I only verified when and for how long he trained with me, me being his first teacher. If that confilicts with his website, so be it. That's something that he has to live with and face up to, not me.

I've resigned from anymore flame-wars here. I'll be glad to answer any questions or help to verify facts about something/someone, provided I can be of help.

[lkfmdc]

We look at Ventura as the senior guy now as far as CTS....he is not thrilled with your behavior.....I dont care what he tells you. He is not thrilled.



Who is "we"? You and your imaginary friend? :rolleyes:

And AGAIN, Steve Ventura says you should NOT speak for him.




Everyone should go to www.bullshido.net and look up LKFMDC's posts and see how he shamelessly tried to run his fellow CTS student out of business. Over and over, literally, he kept making allegations....


Yes, everyone SHOULD run over there and read that thread, and the PROOF in the form of pictures, articles and emails that PROVE BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT that said person is full of crap

So, since you PUSHED, I guess it's time to "out" another one. Rafael Gomez' web site if so full of lies its amazing. He did not start martial arts in 1975. When he arrived in the Mineola school in 1992 he had never studied martial arts before.

In Mineola he had extremely limited contact with Chan Tai San

After 1995, when he left Mike Parrella to study with Steve Ventura, he had NO CONTACT with Chan Tai San

He learned little to NO Lama Pai. And cry all you want, but let's remember I am one of the guys who learned the most Lama Pai

Rafael was also not that good at it. He used to do Jong Choih like a karate outside block and was stiff as hell. Ventura and I used to laugh about it

I could also add, Rafael doesn't speak a single word of Chinese, so how much could have possibly have learned from Chan Tai San? HMMMMMMMMMM? Even if he wants to invent some secret meeting on some fantasy island the fact remains that CTS didnt' speak English and Rafael wouldn't have any idea what he was saying

What is sad and pathetic is a guy who never studied with CTS claiming to be a disciple, claiming to teach things he never learned and sending his student to try and drum up business by spamming a board....

now, please F off

[KFNOOB]

Thanks Michael. Your answers are very helpful. I am not against Rafael at all. I was just curious to know why there was the philosophical differences. I appreciate your input. I have some answers now so I wont bother David any longer since he has no patience for beginners.

[diego]

when i look at kaido's hop gar techniques...there is enough drills there to equal muay thai shadowboxing technique and more...we like to train low sweeps and tornado kicks...palms are a favorite.

in kaido's forms he blends kajukenbo horse stance structure foundation with hop gar full body destruction techniques...say buddy attempts a right front kick to your groin or gut...left foot twist step and right follow into left leg weighted cat stance and you jam him by left palm brush to his right knee on the outside of the cap and at the same time right vert fist to his gut...quickly right front kick to his gut/groin and then shuffle into right bow stance ramming him and right vertical spear hand to the soft spot on his r side neck under side of chn.

so he jams him with palm brush which is destruction principle damaging the knee...punches get destroying stance...kicks gut, now this is kajukenbo but it continues the tower crumbling intention...then he jumps into hop gar footwork with the knockout to neck.

kaido just uses hop gar as an extra weapon...just like you would use a knife...destroy his limbs and stab his blood spots

[rogue]

Lama is a very different style from 'shaolin' types styles as we know them today, that's all. It uses completely different strategies and theories.

Mike,
That one of the things that I was thinking about when I started this thread. Could you give a quick list of the strategies and tactics, or point me to a link for them?

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Thanks Michael. Your answers are very helpful. I am not against Rafael at all. I was just curious to know why there was the philosophical differences. I appreciate your input. I have some answers now so I wont bother David any longer since he has no patience for beginners.

Glad to be of service. David is actually a very patient person, albeit, when you've been teaching in the city for a long time, you constantly get bombarded by all types of wack-jobs wanting to become the 'next dragon' or the 'master killer' (No offense to our favorite moderator, MK! :) ) and telling stories about their monk teachers, who's name they can't reveal, who taught them this secret style, blah blah blah - you kind of get fed up listening to most people talk about KF.

Not to mention the amount of common and uncommon trolls who present themselves so 'cleverly' on the forum here.

Sometimes this forum can be a great source of info and a nice way to make aquaintences. I for one have met some very cool people and have learned a lot about other people's respective styles.


With the exception of Steven V., I've known David longer than anyone on here (maybe Chris??). David is a great guy, despite the fact that we've fought and argued many times over the years. Mostly back in the early and mid 90's, but that is what brothers do sometimes. Anyone who actually meets David would find him a genuine and sincere person - a wealth of Chinese martial arts history, theory and techniques. Sometimes 'tone' cannot always be interpreted correctly online. Although his patience may seem limited here as he is sometimes quick to give a troll a smack, he's always been a good guy and I'm proud to call him my older brother (even thought I am older than he, and much more handsome and muscular, d'oh!)

You obviously wanted some info, legitimatly. I hope you found what you were looking for.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Mike,
That one of the things that I was thinking about when I started this thread. Could you give a quick list of the strategies and tactics, or point me to a link for them?

Well, look at this detail; Punches do not generate from chambered position, i.e., shaolin styles. Torque is NOT generated the was many 'shaolin' type techniques are - no turning over as in Ping Choih. Here is just one example.

When we do Chuyhn Choih, (Penetrating Fist) a staple techniques of the style, you learn to throw it from a very short distance without turning over the hand to generate power. Power is generated from the twisting of the waist. Yes, I know, all styles will claim the twist the waist and they do; but not the same way or as far as we do.

I am filming some clips on these concepts as we speak. Well, not as we speak, or even as I type...but you get the idea. :)

Easier to explain and show, pain to write.

[rogue]

Part of your online series I hope?

[goldberg]

I guess you are going to hijack this thread also. I state facts. This thread is about differences in Lama Pai. Fact: There are different viewpoints even within the Chan Tai San lineage. One instructor says you should teach Lama after learning CLF and another says opposite.

Some of you are a very po0r representation of your art. Ventura is well spoken, speaks nothing bad of anyone from what we know and doesnt seem to spend all day on message boards pounding his chest about how much he knows. Same with Gomez. For whatever reason they arent into these childish games.

The other CTS students are still fighting after all these years.

It's rather sad, actually.

I speak facts and get cursed at. You just want this thread to go the usual route of "I know more because I drive CTS around for years and translated for him BLA BLA BLA"

I guess this forum is your only link to the past. No one really cares about you anyway. If it was so great you'd have Lama all over your site. Instead you have SANDA because, lets face it, no one wants to learn that other stuff anymore...at least not enough to pay the rent so you being a businessman you flip the switch to SANDA-MMA to get the people in. When the students arent coming in, throw up the MMA sign!

SELL OUT!

Everyone should go to www.bullshido.net and look up LKFMDC's posts and see how he shamelessly tried to run his fellow CTS student out of business. Over and over, literally, he kept making allegations....they demanded proff of which he could not provide. Went on for long time....like he does here, David just kept going on....without shame..trying to hurt another CTS student....bullshido wanted proof....he disappeared. Shameless...CTS would be quite proud.

We look at Ventura as the senior guy now as far as CTS....he is not thrilled with your behavior.....I dont care what he tells you. He is not thrilled.

well said. and very true. the guy only talks about himself.

[Lucas]

I remember Dave saying (on some thread) that Lama is the framework for everything he teaches....

He may promote MMA/Sanda, cuz he has guys who want to fight, and lets face it, those are the venues to fight in.

Slipping some Lama into a MMA guys game is kinda sneaky.

[KFNOOB]

Lama Pai Sifu should also be excluded from the garbage. He is helpful. He realizes he has decades of experience in this art and I am not even a biginner yet so he answers my "stupid" questions. He understands that my questions cant be all that interesting maybe to someone in the art so long but he still answers.

Good thing I did not ask how long it takes to get a black sash!!!

[Lucas]

lol @ the blacksash thing. ;)

I've noticed, sometimes a bit of 'tough love' at the beginning can be a good motivator for people just starting out.

Being berated and humuliated often times has been the right element to stir my pot in the past.

[KFNOOB]

I understand that but theres no reason for an experienced instructor of 20+ years to curse at a beginner searching into his art. Bad representation. You'd think he'd realize if you google various arts you come across these types of forums. Why be paranoid as if Im a competing school? I dont know the first thing about Lama Pai, just asking questions as it is interesting. Its not like TKD where there is a school on every corner. Theres like 1 or 2 schools around that I can find.

Let's get back to the differences in Lama Pai and not talk about David Ross as he usually derails threads to be about him. He should have gone to law school.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I understand that but theres no reason for an experienced instructor of 20+ years to curse at a beginner searching into his art. Bad representation. You'd think he'd realize if you google various arts you come across these types of forums. Why be paranoid as if Im a competing school? I dont know the first thing about Lama Pai, just asking questions as it is interesting. Its not like TKD where there is a school on every corner. Theres like 1 or 2 schools around that I can find.

Let's get back to the differences in Lama Pai and not talk about David Ross as he usually derails threads to be about him. He should have gone to law school.

For a "noobe' you seem to have a formulated opinion already.

[Lucas]

lol.

Well the simple fact that you are still here and continuing your inquiries is good. More often than not people get attacked right away on forums for representing even the slightest of opposing views/theories.

Just cuz thats how most trolls start their work. But after a few days and people realize you arent a troll. things change.

KFNOOB....is kinda a troll looking name too.

:p

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Lama Pai Sifu should also be excluded from the garbage. He is helpful. He realizes he has decades of experience in this art and I am not even a biginner yet so he answers my "stupid" questions. He understands that my questions cant be all that interesting maybe to someone in the art so long but he still answers.

Good thing I did not ask how long it takes to get a black sash!!!

They are not stupid questions. Like I said before, it's just sometime hard to decifer real questions from people trying to flame-on. We all had a huge war with green cloud twice over the past few years. We're all a little 'gun-shy'.

But the facts are presented regarding maxfit. No opinions regarding skill levels, character assement , etc. Just confirming who he learned with and when he learned. You'd have to take class with him to determine for yourself if you enjoy his instruction.

I guess the other thing that raised a red flag was that similiar questions were asked by mutliple people who had never really contributed to the forum before (hence they were perceived as trolls).

Best of luck in finding an instructor. Let me know if I can help any further.

[lkfmdc]

Every thread even remotely related to CTS the same guy asks the same questions. They were already answered 157 times. After you've already gotten the answer, why repeat the question? And with a wonderful little plug for the web site each and every time. Do I need to mention two screen names asking the same question with the same posting style? A troll, naaaaaaahhhhhhh (/sarcasm) :rolleyes:

Yeah, I'm a sell out. I sell out all my available memberships every month

When I do a seminar, it sells out

My DVD's sell out as soon as they are offered

My fighting events, the tickets sell out

And I didn't even need to go to law school :rolleyes:

[KFNOOB]

When is your next fighting event? I'd love to see it. Very interested in that stuff.

[rogue]

Let's get back to the differences in Lama Pai and not talk about David Ross as he usually derails threads to be about him. He should have gone to law school.

Interesting comment from someone with a join date of Jan 2008.

[KFNOOB]

Why is it interesting?

[Drake]

Somethin's VERY wrong here...

I should've spotted it by the CLF "nothing but forms" slant...

[KFNOOB]

Mainly forms. You guys just want to read what you want to hear? Doc Fai Wong said "mainly forms", I do not see the issue Drake. I really dont.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Why is it interesting?

Maybe because:


For a "noobe' you seem to have a formulated opinion already.

[Drake]

Mainly forms. You guys just want to read what you want to hear? Doc Fai Wong said "mainly forms", I do not see the issue Drake. I really dont.

Because you called him in China, right?

[Drake]

And I say again, Master TMW doesn't teach mostly forms, which you claimed a while back. He breaks his vids up into categories, and only in the end do you even see a form.

[KFNOOB]

Who said I called him in China?

As for TMW, you are correct, I have the vids. He teaches it like you say.

[KFNOOB]

And drake, thanks for your help on the DFW info, appreciated but I dont want to derail this thread with DFW and TMW stuff. Its not Lama. Its hard finding people who do Lama....at least from what I can tell.

Thanks again and be well.

[Lucas]

maybe if you go to the right state you might find people doing lamas. but thats not really my thing.....

[cjurakpt]

maybe if you go to the right state you might find people doing lamas. but thats not really my thing.....
maybe this is then?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbPDKHXWlLQ

[cjurakpt]

Physical Therapist Jurak I am offended. Are you following this thread? My post is perfectly in line with this thread. I do not pretend to be an authority on KF but others here are debating or giving opinions on Lama's difficulty yet one instructor clearly teaches Lama first then AFTER getting your black sash you learn CLF. You dont think this is an important distinction?

Bad day? Wife telling you to clean the garage? What have I done to you?

BUWAHAHAHAHAAAAA!

hoo hoo, (sniff), he he - thanks, best laugh I've had all week...

you're still an idiot

[goldberg]

[QUOTE=KFNOOB;833443]And drake, thanks for your help on the DFW info, appreciated but I dont want to derail this thread with DFW and TMW stuff. Its not Lama. Its hard finding people who do Lama....at least from what I can tell.

Thanks again and be well.[/QUOTE

this is a lama school located in canada. looks good dont know where you live?

http://www.freakyman.ca/lamahistory.html

[Lama Pai Sifu]

this is a lama school located in canada. looks good dont know where you live?

http://www.freakyman.ca/lamahistory.html

Vern is a nice guy and they are a very good Lama school.

[Lucas]

maybe this is then?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbPDKHXWlLQ

LOL

you owe me 2 mintues of life

[cjurakpt]

LOL

you owe me 2 mintues of life

would you like that in blood plasma or pre-natal qi?

[Lucas]

ill take the pre-natal qi for 500 alec

[sanjuro_ronin]

ill take the pre-natal qi for 500 alec

And I'll take "the rapists" for 1000 :D

[Lama Pai Sifu]

And I'll take "the rapists" for 1000 :D

That's Therapists, Mr. Connery.

[cjurakpt]

That's Therapists, Mr. Connery.

You'll rue the day y'crossed me, Trebec!

[aktionmancer]

[QUOTE=KFNOOB;833443]And drake, thanks for your help on the DFW info, appreciated but I dont want to derail this thread with DFW and TMW stuff. Its not Lama. Its hard finding people who do Lama....at least from what I can tell.

Thanks again and be well.[/QUOTE

this is a lama school located in canada. looks good dont know where you live?

http://www.freakyman.ca/lamahistory.html

if anyone comes to visit vancouver, PM me so you can check out the secret Lama training centre in my Sifu's basement!!

seriously, as a Lama student here in vancouver, had no idea there was such a divide in Lama politics in the US.

[lkfmdc]

Actually, there is very little "divide"

Mike, Steve Ventura, Stephen Innocenzi, Chris Jurak, Chris F, Noran Malouf, myself, et al we all get along.... we're all about to have a big tea and discussions about teh "Chan Tai San banquet" still in the air.....

One person has acted in a way we don't want to associate with him anymore. Another is a student of one of the disciples, but makes false claims. Actually, we LIKE HIM, we just don't appreciate his false claims

CTS pai gets along with David Chin and all the other Lama Pai's in the US

Very little "divide" really compared to other traditions

[rogue]

There are also the principles of "chaan" and the "si ji fatt"

Dave,
For us non-CMA guys, what are chaan and the si ji fatt?

[the Preacher]

It's the only style based on a animal that can't actually fight. :p

What is Lama Pai?
what makes it any better than playing in the street.







Meglio sola che male accompagnata

[cjurakpt]

What is Lama Pai?
what makes it any better than playing in the street.







Meglio sola che male accompagnata

oh lord...here we go again...:rolleyes:

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I have some theories as to why we get trolled a lot. It does seem like it comes from 2-3 different sources.

Oh well. I truly feel sorry for anyone that feels so compelled to anonymously attack anyone on here. A little harmless joking never hurts anyone, but it's obvious that some people have some real issues.

[Drake]

I'll be the first to admit I don't know much anything about Lama Pai CLF aside from the youtube clips posted.

[the Preacher]

I'll be the first to admit I don't know much anything about Lama Pai CLF aside from the youtube clips posted.

so Lama Pai is Choy Lee Fut?
EXChoy Lee Fut Dummy (http://www.chuskungfuschool.com/video/wm_clf_dummy.wmv)

[lkfmdc]

"preacher" is "kemo" who was already banned once before... so he's already established he is a troll and a waste of time, and only a matter of time until he gets banned again.....

I agree with many of Mike's theories

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I think there are a few things here.

1. In some cases, it's just people screwing around and deriving please from argueing and trying to cause some form of drama.

2. I think there are people who are very jealous of either myself or my classmates for a few reasons;


a. we are not accountable to anyone or group. Our teacher has passed and we are not bound by membership to a federation or to any group. We cannot be kicked out of anything for speaking our mind. Many people on here are not in the same position and cannot even post as themselves, for fear of repercussion from their teacher/elders/group/organization.


b. we are running schools and doing exactly what we want to do. We are also experiencing a certain level of success that others may not. It is not uncommon small or unsuccessful schools to talk bad about others as a way to justify their shortcommings. i.e., the school with 30 students and who knows nothing about the business of MA schools, who keeps his school a mess and starts classes late and doesn't have a professional facility or work ethic, claims that the successful guy down the block is a 'sell out'. Claiming that you are 'not' a sell out is a way for schools to justify their inadequecies. "Oh, I'd make more money/have more students if I was a sell out like (Blank) down the road."

3. In some cases, our brutal honesty has ****ed off some people. We've never really been P.C. and neither was our Sifu. He spoke his mind and told people like it is. There are quite a lot of people that we feel are very good TMCA, and there are those that we think are total frauds. A lot of people feel the same way we do, however we are not afraid to call it like it is. Some people cheer us for this, and other think we are not acting in a martially virtuous way. I don't think that everyone has the same idea of what 'Mo Lum' means. It meant something where my Sifu came from and to others like him. It's meaning seems to have changed over the years, especially with those who would 'hide' behind it's moral cloak.

Just a few thoughts. I'm sure I'll be anonymously attacked momentarily. (Yawn)

[the Preacher]

I think there are a few things here.

1. In some cases, it's just people screwing around and deriving please from argueing and trying to cause some form of drama.

2. I think there are people who are very jealous of either myself or my classmates for a few reasons;


a. we are not accountable to anyone or group. Our teacher has passed and we are not bound by membership to a federation or to any group. We cannot be kicked out of anything for speaking our mind. Many people on here are not in the same position and cannot even post as themselves, for fear of repercussion from their teacher/elders/group/organization.


b. we are running schools and doing exactly what we want to do. We are also experiencing a certain level of success that others may not. It is not uncommon small or unsuccessful schools to talk bad about others as a way to justify their shortcommings. i.e., the school with 30 students and who knows nothing about the business of MA schools, who keeps his school a mess and starts classes late and doesn't have a professional facility or work ethic, claims that the successful guy down the block is a 'sell out'. Claiming that you are 'not' a sell out is a way for schools to justify their inadequecies. "Oh, I'd make more money/have more students if I was a sell out like (Blank) down the road."

3. In some cases, our brutal honesty has ****ed off some people. We've never really been P.C. and neither was our Sifu. He spoke his mind and told people like it is. There are quite a lot of people that we feel are very good TMCA, and there are those that we think are total frauds. A lot of people feel the same way we do, however we are not afraid to call it like it is. Some people cheer us for this, and other think we are not acting in a martially virtuous way. I don't think that everyone has the same idea of what 'Mo Lum' means. It meant something where my Sifu came from and to others like him. It's meaning seems to have changed over the years, especially with those who would 'hide' behind it's moral cloak.

Just a few thoughts. I'm sure I'll be anonymously attacked momentarily. (Yawn)


so is Lama Pai = Choy Lee Fut, or Not?
I thought that was an easy question?


hope you don't consider me asking what is Lama Pai,
as jealousy or argumentative?

and how do you hide behind morals?
I thought morals are what you stand up for?

p.s. I think the above rhetoric discloses a truly sad perspective of your own insecurities.

[cjurakpt]

so is Lama Pai = Choy Lee Fut, or Not?
I thought that was an easy question?
well, to most people, clearly they are not; but in the purple-stripped sky of your world, who's to say?


hope you don't consider me asking what is Lama Pai,
as jealousy or argumentative?
no, no, of course not - asking why it's any better than playing in the street isn't in any way shape or form instigating or inflammatory


and how do you hide behind morals?
I thought morals are what you stand up for?
no, we are pretty much situational ethicists; you are the wanna-be-fundie quoting Ecclesiastes
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=830803&postcount=32
and Ephesians
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=829467&postcount=1


p.s. I think the above rhetoric discloses a truly sad perspective of your own insecurities.
whoa - Siggy Freud Jr. here! boy, you sure hit the nail on the head there - Mike is just a barely contained, seeting vat of Weltschmertz and Angst; it's a miracle he manages to get it together every morning and face the world the way he does (that is, behind a mask of joy that hides his soul of tears, of course)

there really, REALLY needs to be some sort of screening process for applicant trolls on the Forum...

[Lama Pai Sifu]

so is Lama Pai = Choy Lee Fut, or Not?
I thought that was an easy question?


Sure, styles with different names and different origins, not to mention technical composition...yes...they must be the same. LOL.

You are truly a silly person.




and how do you hide behind morals?
I thought morals are what you stand up for?


Reading truly is fundamental, isn't it?


'hide' behind it's moral cloak was what you quoted me...

Try reading it again, and then I give you permission to ask another question. Until then...back to the end of the line, troll! (Cracking my whip)

And I supposes that the list of morals YOU stand up for, has something to do with trolling people anonymously...lol

[cjurakpt]

Until then...back to the end of the line, troll! (Cracking my whip)

LOL!


.......

[the Preacher]

you can't answer "what is Lama Pai" in simple sentence.



for J......... :D
Thanks for the message

“The Jewish scriptures admirably illustrate the development from the religion of fear to moral religion, a development continued in the New Testament. The religions of all civilized peoples, especially the peoples of the Orient, are primarily moral religions. The development from a religion of fear to moral religion is a great step in peoples' lives. And yet, that primitive religions are based entirely on fear and the religions of civilized peoples purely on morality is a prejudice against which we must be on our guard. The truth is that all religions are a varying blend of both types, with this differentiation: that on the higher levels of social life the religion of morality predominates.”

“The highest principles for our aspirations and judgments are given to us in the Jewish-Christian religious tradition. It is a very high goal which, with our weak powers, we can reach only very inadequately, but which gives a sure foundation to our aspirations and valuations.”

Albert EinsteinSource (http://www.sacred-texts.com/aor/einstein/einsci.htm)

[Lama Pai Sifu]

you can't answer "what is Lama Pai" in simple sentence.


A style of Chinese Kung-Fu. Again with your silly trolling. There is plenty written about it on the web, stop acting like u don't know any better...lol

[the Preacher]

A style of Chinese Kung-Fu. Again with your silly trolling. There is plenty written about it on the web, stop acting like u don't know any better...lol

so you consider this the best representation of the lama system currently available
Lama Pai Kung-fu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjAZloVS024&feature=related)

"However, most of these methods are either based on very abstract theories or are too vague to give the student a real understanding of what Lama Pai is really about."
source (http://www.greencloud.net/969727.html)

"Lama Pai oral history maintains that, in the late Ming Dynasty (1368–1644), Lion's Roar spread to Northern China and incorporated the techniques of the martial arts there, explaining its Northern Chinese characteristics. In some ways, Lama Pai, Tibetan White Crane, and Hop Gar take the distinguishing characteristics of Northern Chinese martial arts (fully extended arms, mobility, high kicks) even further than those arts themselves do and may be a source of the Northern characteristics found in the Southern Chinese martial arts of Guangdong."
source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibetan_White_Crane)


"take the distinguishing characteristics of Northern Chinese martial arts"

so its a mix

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Trolling aside, what is it that you want to know?

You've posted links by David Ross and a video clip of him as well. You've posted wikipedia's page on Lama Kung-Fu. Is there something you are getting at, seriously?

[the Preacher]

well you seem so very proud and prosperous in your "Art"
I would like to know why is it any better than any other?
or even like I said, just even "Playing" in the street.

didn't the creator of the "Style" stand and take all challenges "150 fights" for three consecutive days?

who in todays modern venue represents "lama pai"?






EX: excerpts from the thread

"And finally, yes, Lama is different than most TCMA systems, and it may have been a surprise. As open as it is today, it still surprises people when they see it up close. Very different than most TCMA"
How so? What is different about it?

Lama Pai does not use bridges, in fact, you really shouldn't even block
the forms look the same on the outside

What makes Lama harder to learn?
Lama is the frame work of everything
We start by being stupid.
"Blocking? What's blocking?" Lama's first tenet is that of "chahn" or the intent of ruthless destruction.
the original name of the style, based upon how the crane handled the situation, was "spank the monkey fist" but that didn't seem to catch on

if it's so hard to use lama then how realistic is it as a fighting art

it would be nice if he had actually learned any Lama before he actually tried to teach it
Some of you are a very po0r representation of your art.

Lama is a very different style from 'shaolin' types styles as we know them today, that's all.
It uses completely different strategies and theories.

I am one of the guys who learned the most Lama Pai

Could you give a quick list of the strategies and tactics, or point me to a link for them?
what makes it any better than playing in the street
oh lord...here we go again..
A little harmless joking never hurts anyone, but it's obvious that some people have some real issues.
:D

[Lama Pai Sifu]

well you seem so very proud and prosperous in your "Art"
I would like to know why is it any better than any other?
or even like I said, just even "Playing" in the street.


I very much like the 'Art'. I don't know if I am 'proud' of it, after all, i didn't create it.

I don't even know what 'Playing in the street' means.



didn't the creator of the "Style" stand and take all challenges "150 fights" for three consecutive days?


You are inaccurate. The creator of the style did no such thing.

And I don't believe that anyone ever said that the style is 'better' than any other style. I think the general consensus here and on most boards is; 'It's the guy, not the style'

It's a shame that you seem either threatened, jealous or intimidated by what has said regarding the style. I cannot help you there, these are your own issues you must deal with.

If you have a specific problem with myself or my classmates, I suggest you speak your mind and get it off your chest, if that is what you need to do.

Othewise, I don't see where you are going with this. Eventually you will be ignored, you'll grow inceasingly irritated, to which you will most likely escalate the drama with personal insults and attacks. So be it. Game on.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

"And finally, yes, Lama is different than most TCMA systems, and it may have been a surprise. As open as it is today, it still surprises people when they see it up close. Very different than most TCMA"
How so? What is different about it?

Lama Pai does not use bridges, in fact, you really shouldn't even block
the forms look the same on the outside

What makes Lama harder to learn?
Lama is the frame work of everything
We start by being stupid.
"Blocking? What's blocking?" Lama's first tenet is that of "chahn" or the intent of ruthless destruction.
the original name of the style, based upon how the crane handled the situation, was "spank the monkey fist" but that didn't seem to catch on

if it's so hard to use lama then how realistic is it as a fighting art

it would be nice if he had actually learned any Lama before he actually tried to teach it
Some of you are a very po0r representation of your art.

Lama is a very different style from 'shaolin' types styles as we know them today, that's all.
It uses completely different strategies and theories.

I am one of the guys who learned the most Lama Pai

Could you give a quick list of the strategies and tactics, or point me to a link for them?
what makes it any better than playing in the street
oh lord...here we go again..
A little harmless joking never hurts anyone, but it's obvious that some people have some real issues.[/I]
:D[/SIZE]

And I have to say that this sounds a little like an OCD, I mean these quotes are from 2 dozen posts along 3-5 different threads. You actually took the time to copy all of these from several different pages and then paste them into a post? In all seriousness, you are sounding a little off the edge.

And what was with making up the fake gym that you own on the other page? Trying to dispense ridiculous business advice where it became very obvious that you were full of it. Were you trying to goat one of us into an arguement with you? I don't even understand the troll-logic in this. What is it you are trying to accomplish here??

[lkfmdc]

I would like to know why is it any better than any other?



as a troll, you are really failing miserably.... let me put you out of your misery. CITE a single quote either Mike, Chris or I made about Lama Pai being "better" than anything else.... No straw men, just CITE the quote... If not, end of your little games.

[the Preacher]

And I have to say that this sounds a little like an OCD, I mean these quotes are from 2 dozen posts along 3-5 different threads. You actually took the time to copy all of these from several different pages and then paste them into a post? In all seriousness, you are sounding a little off the edge.

And what was with making up the fake gym that you own on the other page? Trying to dispense ridiculous business advice where it became very obvious that you were full of it. Were you trying to goat one of us into an arguement with you? I don't even understand the troll-logic in this. What is it you are trying to accomplish here??

Nope! all excerpts are from this thread.
No fake gym, it's real, you just can't seem to believe it.

who is the modern day head of Lama Pai?
who represents "Lama Pai" as far as modern fighting venues go?


still can't answer?

[lkfmdc]

OK, game over. He can't answer direct questions and still wants to talk about imaginary gyms in castles in the air. You were already banned once, my guess is in a little more you'll have another break down where you won't be able to resist and get yourself banned again. Mike, don't waste anymore time on "preacher kemo"

[Lama Pai Sifu]

who is the modern day head of Lama Pai?
who represents "Lama Pai" as far as modern fighting venues go?

No one.

No one.

Okay, done. Buh Bye Preacher.

[the Preacher]

no head of the "Lama Pai"
no one to represent?

this i do believe:D

[Lama Pai Sifu]

You are correct. There are no heads of this style, in fact, I'm not sure it even exists. And no one uses this fictitioius style to fight or train. You have uncovered the real truth.

Does this make you feel all warm and fuzzy?

[the Preacher]

Over the next three days, a tireless Wong Yan Lum fought over 150 martial artists styles and skill levels. Most matches were over in less than 10 seconds, with Wong being victorious in every match. Master Wong’s reputation grew rapidly and he immediately opened up his “Lama Pai” school.

Lama Pai Founder ? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wong_Yan-Lam)

[HOKPAIWES]

The founder was a dwarf named Drollo. Lum was a hell of a fighter who helped the system spread.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Over the next three days, a tireless Wong Yan Lum fought over 150 martial artists styles and skill levels. Most matches were over in less than 10 seconds, with Wong being victorious in every match. Master Wong’s reputation grew rapidly and he immediately opened up his “Lama Pai” school.

Lama Pai Founder ? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wong_Yan-Lam)

Didn't I tell you this already? Being that you are such an avid reader and quoter...I'd have thought that you would have actually read the history. Not the founder, silly. LOL

[lkfmdc]

who is the head of Hung ga?
who is the head of Choy Lay Fut?
who is the head of Wing Chun?
who is the head of Southern Praying Mantis?
who is the headof 7 Star Praying Mantis?

OR

who cares? :rolleyes:

[rogue]

A really, really dumb question, but why are you guys even acknowledging the troll?:confused:

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Werd ! :):)

[KFNOOB]

Im only researching but would you consider the "representative head" of CLF to be Lee Koon Hung before he passed? Would it now be Tat wong or Doc Fai Wong?

Or is that really just one lineage of many?

Why is Lama connected to CLF anyway? Is it because you guys simply learned it through CTS or is there a more historical reason----or maybe no connection at all.

[cjurakpt]

no head of the "Lama Pai"
no one to represent?

this i do believe:D

are you volunteering for the job?

[cjurakpt]

Im only researching but would you consider the "representative head" of CLF to be Lee Koon Hung before he passed? Would it now be Tat wong or Doc Fai Wong?

Or is that really just one lineage of many?

take it over to Southern Style Forum and ask Frank (HSK Warrior) - he's the CLF librarian-sage when it comes to who's the head of which particular lineage

you are no longer an idiot

[cjurakpt]

No fake gym, it's real, you just can't seem to believe it.

that's because you won't supply a name, address, website, etc.; do so and belief is no longer an issue

you are now the idiot

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Im only researching but would you consider the "representative head" of CLF to be Lee Koon Hung before he passed? Would it now be Tat wong or Doc Fai Wong?

Or is that really just one lineage of many?

Why is Lama connected to CLF anyway? Is it because you guys simply learned it through CTS or is there a more historical reason----or maybe no connection at all.

Lee Kwoon Hung was the head of his specific 'branch' or 'school'.

Tat Wong was his student.

Doc Fai-Wong is from a different lineage completely.

There are many lineages for most styles.

Lama is not related to CLF. They have some tech. in common, as do most styles. Nothing more to it.

[KFNOOB]

That's what I thought. Thanks.

[Drake]

Yeah...there's no "CLF Grand Poobah". There's plenty of highly skilled CLF guys/gals out there, and I don't think any one is better than the other. You have Buk Sing, Chan, Hung Sing, Jiangmen, and other lineages out there, all with great things to offer.

[rogue]

Yeah...there's no "CLF Grand Poobah".

Please check under my name.

[Drake]

Please check under my name.

I spell mine with an "h". Therefore, we are a different lineage and you don't know smack about the Green Grass Monk.

[rogue]

It says member under your name, is that accurate?:D

Yes biotches, I am still the Grand Pooba! ;)

[Drake]

It says member under your name, is that accurate?:D

Yes biotches, I am still the Grand Pooba! ;)

Yes, because "big member" was too risque and out of the sake of not making others jealous, I changed the name.

[lkfmdc]

Being of a mixed Jewish/Catholic background, I think the perfect name for the leader of TIBETAN LAMA Pai kung fu should be "Iman".... so from now on I wanted to be called the "really big and important Iman of Tibetan Lama Pai" ;)

[Drake]

Being of a mixed Jewish/Catholic background, I think the perfect name for the leader of TIBETAN LAMA Pai kung fu should be "Iman".... so from now on I wanted to be called the "really big and important Iman of Tibetan Lama Pai" ;)

Iman sounds like a frightening new product created by Apple.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Wasn't there a super model named Iman, married to Bowie ?

[rogue]

Oh dear lord, please don't anybody photoshop Dave's head onto Iman's body.:eek: