rotator cuff tendonitis

[viper]

So ive gota get a scan but itl prob confirm what ive thought for a year now iv got rotator cuff tendonitis so my question is have you had it? how long did it take to heal?? what did you do to fix it?? (exercises rest etc) for the record i went to a physio but a yearish ago and realli did nothing for me!!

[sanjuro_ronin]

So ive gota get a scan but itl prob confirm what ive thought for a year now iv got rotator cuff tendonitis so my question is have you had it? how long did it take to heal?? what did you do to fix it?? (exercises rest etc) for the record i went to a physio but a yearish ago and realli did nothing for me!!

It doesn't "heal".
You just have to adapt your training and modify your routines.
If your was due to over use, like mine, you change the routine to be about quality and not quantity.

[cjurakpt]

So ive gota get a scan but itl prob confirm what ive thought for a year now iv got rotator cuff tendonitis so my question is have you had it? how long did it take to heal?? what did you do to fix it?? (exercises rest etc) for the record i went to a physio but a yearish ago and realli did nothing for me!!
first, all PT's / physio's are NOT created equal, so just 'cause you went to one who did nothing for you (and I agree, there are many like that out there), it doesn't mean another with more training / skill isn't out there; where do you live? I might be able to point you in the right direction...and also, you could receive equally qualified treatment from another type licensed practitioner such as chiropractic, osteopathic (DO), acupunturist, even athletic traininer if they had a rehab background; and massage therapy may also help, but their training in this sort of thing may not be as comprehensive, it depends;


It doesn't "heal".
You just have to adapt your training and modify your routines.
If your was due to over use, like mine, you change the routine to be about quality and not quantity.
not necessarilly - if you correctly treat out the underlying muscle imbalances and connective tissue restrictions which are frequently at the root of RTC dysfunction (e.g. - hypertonic pecs, subscapularis, biceps, lats and inhibited lower traps / glutes; dysfunction of costal cage, respiratory diaphragm & quadratus lumborum; dysfunctional scapular mechanics in general), you can pretty much do your thing, as long as you also make sure you include activites to keep the area balanced; of course, evenyone is different, so in some cases there may be the need to significantly modify / refrain from certain activities; again, it depends...

[sanjuro_ronin]

not necessarilly - if you correctly treat out the underlying muscle imbalances and connective tissue restrictions which are frequently at the root of RTC dysfunction (e.g. - hypertonic pecs, subscapularis, biceps, lats and inhibited lower traps / glutes; dysfunction of costal cage, respiratory diaphragm & quadratus lumborum; dysfunctional scapular mechanics in general), you can pretty much do your thing, as long as you also make sure you include activites to keep the area balanced; of course, evenyone is different, so in some cases there may be the need to significantly modify / refrain from certain activities; again, it depends...

In my case, over the last couple of years, physio and so much more, I have found that if I "overdue" my training in terms of quantity ( EX: a bag session the ends up having me throw 300 left hooks when all is said and done) I pay for it to a point that I can hardly move my left shoulder for a good week, but if I focus on quality ( less strikes but more power or HIIT oriented) I am ok.
Thing bad knee after running a marathon and the same knee being ok after running sprints like 100, 200 and 400 meters.

[cjurakpt]

In my case, over the last couple of years, physio and so much more, I have found that if I "overdue" my training in terms of quantity ( EX: a bag session the ends up having me throw 300 left hooks when all is said and done) I pay for it to a point that I can hardly move my left shoulder for a good week, but if I focus on quality ( less strikes but more power or HIIT oriented) I am ok.
Thing bad knee after running a marathon and the same knee being ok after running sprints like 100, 200 and 400 meters.

exactly - so in your case, you know what flares you up and you modify accordingly; although TBH, even if you cut your bag sessions by 50%, I wouldn't characterize being able to throw 150 hook punches as a "limitation" for the majority of the population

as a note, hook punches are a perfect example of a motion that puts significant stress on the RTC: the key issue is that in general, the pecs / biceps (flexors) are inherently stronger than the shoulder external rotators (extensors), just based on how we are built biomechanically and also how we do most of our daily activity; what happens with any sort of hooking / throwing motion is that the shoulder external rotators act as decelerators at the end of the hook / throw - basically they are the ones that put the brakes on the motion, and this is an eccentric contraction, which is the most energy-consuming and stressful type of contraction to do (elongating with controlled "let go"); so over time, the external rotators (supraspinatus, infraspinatus, teres minor) get hyper-stretched, and inhibited because the anterior flexors (pecs, biceps) get hyper-facilitated; also, because the scapula starts tipping forward as a result, you also get inhibition of lower trapezius, one of the most underated muscle in the human body, IMHO, as it's the one that actually helps your thoracic spine elongate as you stand erect); you can also get adaptive shortening of the anterior shoulder girdle connective tissue as well, compounding the issue

the key to treatment, in general, is to stretch out / defacilitate the anterior structures (pecs and subscapularis especially), rebalance the motion of the ribcage / respiratory diaphragm, make sure quadratus lumborum is moving well on both sides (another underated muscle, actually very important to keep it happy), and finally to strengthen the heck out of lower traps, both in isolation and in functional context; and of course taking it easy on those hooks...oh, and plyo training at the end if ther person is looking to get back to some sort of high level frequent athletic activity (not what I typically see though with the population I treat)

[sanjuro_ronin]

That is why I mentioned hooks, it was a left hook that screwed me up, well, doing left hooks for almost 30 years !
:D

I recall the words of my doctor that were echoed by the therapist:
The human body was not designed for what you are putting it through.

Puny Humans !

[Black Jack II]

It does not happen anymore but since we are talking about shoulder injury based issues. At one time if I swung my right arm back past the chest, think throwing a vertical backward elbow or ax hand to the side, I would hear a loud sound that was very much like a large rubber band being stretched.

Would happen if i did it slow or fast. Was a bit bizzare and scary really...heh.

I think it was from an far overbalance in bench press vrs core develop in other areas but that is just a guess, or maybe an old gymnast problem kicking in.

[viper]

I live in brisbane australia suberb morayfield i used to travel 45 min to see that physio so travel isnt a issue i just want the issue fixed plus i have a tight iliotibial band both injuries on ther left and side and yes both would seem to be overuse injuires but i just want some decent help. I seen a bowen theripist and not much ive seen a good acupunturist and that didnt realli help it either. Any recomendations would be apreciated

[cjurakpt]

I live in brisbane australia suberb morayfield i used to travel 45 min to see that physio so travel isnt a issue i just want the issue fixed plus i have a tight iliotibial band both injuries on ther left and side and yes both would seem to be overuse injuires but i just want some decent help. I seen a bowen theripist and not much ive seen a good acupunturist and that didnt realli help it either. Any recomendations would be apreciated

I am consistently amazed that people who live in Oz seem to have trouble finding a good physio - primarily because for a US PT to get licensed there you actually need to do extra coursework before you are considered qualified, but also because there are supposedly a large number of physios who have a GDMT, which is a post-degree credential gained form doing a year-long fellowship in Maitland-based manual therapy; anyway, if it were me, I'd look for someone with those qualifications, or someone trained / certified in Mulligan approach (or both, of course); on the flip side, you might look for a physio who also has a DO degree, they would have a different methodolgical approach, but osteopathic stuff is what I've always used and with generally good success...

Bowen is pretty much a waste of time, IMPE, for what you describe (it seems to work well with other things, like chronic systemic inflammatory issues); acupuncture can be useful, but I'd be thinking more along the lines of tui na for chronic musculoskeletal stuff...

[viper]

thanks for the advice i know my body is unbalanced and im working on that but i need the extra help of a exp pro i thanku for ur help tho

[Yum Cha]

I'm just recovering from exactly the same thing, I think.

Mine was an "impingement" and they also called it tendonitus. It was the rotator cuff, the tendon that goes straight out the side and down.

If I put my hand behind my back, with the back of my hand against my belt, I couldn't raise it much higher. The other hand could go up between my shoulder blades.

The pain was odd, once I triggered it, no matter what I did, it blossomed to a painful peak running down the top of my arm and than slowly faded. About a 20-30 second ride.

For my mate in Brizzi, I went to my GP, got a referral to the Sports Medicine Clinic, saw a Specialist (surgeon - works with the Wallabies) who ordered an Ultrasound and x-ray.

The Ultra Sound doc found all kinds of rubbish in my arms and kinda scared me, but when the Surgeon reviewed the films he said "Ultrasound guys always find stuff, but when we open people up, its about 80% wrong."

He put me on total rest and muscle relaxants 3 times a day. I took them twice a day and laid off the training for about 2 months. I mean totally laid off, like get fat, lose flexability, get frustrated kinda laid off.

He also offered to give me a cortizone needle, but said it hurt like hell, and wasn't really necessary if I was willing to rest it up.

He said if neither worked, than surgery might be an option.

It came good with rest and muscle relaxants, knock on wood, started back training lightly, cranked it up a bit and now I'm working more on fitness than recovery.

By the way, the whole experience cost me $60.

FWIW

[sanjuro_ronin]

I'm just recovering from exactly the same thing, I think.

Mine was an "impingement" and they also called it tendonitus. It was the rotator cuff, the tendon that goes straight out the side and down.

If I put my hand behind my back, with the back of my hand against my belt, I couldn't raise it much higher. The other hand could go up between my shoulder blades.

The pain was odd, once I triggered it, no matter what I did, it blossomed to a painful peak running down the top of my arm and than slowly faded. About a 20-30 second ride.

For my mate in Brizzi, I went to my GP, got a referral to the Sports Medicine Clinic, saw a Specialist (surgeon - works with the Wallabies) who ordered an Ultrasound and x-ray.

The Ultra Sound doc found all kinds of rubbish in my arms and kinda scared me, but when the Surgeon reviewed the films he said "Ultrasound guys always find stuff, but when we open people up, its about 80% wrong."

He put me on total rest and muscle relaxants 3 times a day. I took them twice a day and laid off the training for about 2 months. I mean totally laid off, like get fat, lose flexability, get frustrated kinda laid off.

He also offered to give me a cortizone needle, but said it hurt like hell, and wasn't really necessary if I was willing to rest it up.

He said if neither worked, than surgery might be an option.

It came good with rest and muscle relaxants, knock on wood, started back training lightly, cranked it up a bit and now I'm working more on fitness than recovery.

By the way, the whole experience cost me $60.

FWIW

Impingment, yep, that's a term I have heard also ;)
The way mine is/was:
If I raised my arm ( left) so that the elbow is level with the shoulder, with my hand pointing down and then try to rotate my arm to where my hand is now parallel to the floor, I wouldn't be able to do it, maybe at best just half way.
Now it is fine,but somedays after an overly enthusiastic workout, I am back to the land of stiffness.

[Oso]

I had 3 separate tears in the shoulder, a bone spur, a shattered end to the collarbone at the shoulder and a few spots of arthritis he scraped off since he was in there.

my doc's official description was 'the most mangled shoulder I've ever seen':cool::p

if you end up with surgery...plan to take the time off for all the PT and don't plan on any contact sports for a year.

[Yum Cha]

Oso, Just remember, It could be worse...


It could have been me! :p

[Oso]

no, what's worse is the other shoulder is now ready for the knife...but I'm not going to do it.

[No_Know]

If you are not getting significant rlief.

If your left shoulder is better enough and your right shoulder is still bad or worse May I Hands-Over your right shoulder?

If your left is still off too may I Hands-Over Both your shoulders?

I would Hands-Over from where I was. And you would be where ever you were. I would Hands-Over for about a week's time and you tell me ifit's no difference, a-fruit-of-a-lot worse or however your opinion of it is.

I No_Know

[kwaichang]

I have treated many shoulders of Pro athletes the so called tendinitis is just that and is often something completly different often GP's mis dx due to lack of Ortho knowledge and specific tests. In my experience true rot cuff Tendinitis is rare and it is usually A. bone spur, B. Impingement C. partial strain that changes the biomechanics with assoc Trigger points or then a true Tendinitis. MRI or x-ray or both KC

[Yum Cha]

What is the difference between tendonitus and impingement?

[martialartspeon]

I've worked through it. Took a lot of work working out with light weight doing all the different motions of the shoulder. Good luck and watch that bench press.

[viper]

How would you go about stabilising and strengthin the shoulder i know its the problemv that effect the solution but some broad exercises. Also i didn t understand i no_ know what were u saying?

[No_Know]

Viper-Thank you. I do non touch pain/stress adjustment I call Hands-Over. I need the person's permission to do that and was asking Oso if he was interested.

I was saying that I would try to help Oso from a distance improve his shoulder condition.

I do something I call Hands-Over. When I was eight I was watching Saturyday midday Kung-Fu shows and my leg was hurting. I had a concept of using qi from Kung-Fu movies. And at the time there was talk in the news and media about People having an energy--bioenergy. I put my hand over my leg (other than touching) and it felt better. I work with the concept when I can...

sixteen years later a co-worker with Lupus allowed me to do Hands over and she said she could move better. After that, a retired Sergant Father of someone I watched-out for had arthritis of the knee. He said he felt an itneresting sensation when I did Hands-Over for him. and he asked me to do some m ore when I could. A lady with Knee injury from a vehicular accident had several sessions over a week or so and one night had to see me a did a crescent kick passing in front of my face--she was at least happy, saying howmuch better her knee was. And I was asked to help a guy a few states away who couldnt talk good because of throat injury. I was told he healed ahead of schedule and was doing good.

There's a brushing and hands-near for sinus pains, but mostly non-touch pain/tension adjustment.

I and Oso have talked before. I felt I could offer to him. You were looking for experiences. I no_knew I had those experiences so (needle-and-thread) I didn't offer to you.

Looking to help and practice.

No_Know

[No_Know]

As far as exercises I might recommend (No valid foundation, necessarily) small range shoulder rotations that really use the pectoralis and rhomboid muscles--up and forward; down and backward. Up and backward; down and forward.

Also, I made-up fist at shoulder, elbow at side, aft arm at ribs-move elbow sideways away from ribs (short distance). Maintain flapping. while flappingslowlylower fist until arm is straight (take minutes if need-be other than fast). bring fist back up while flapping (short distance).


Other levels. Fist at closest nipple, Fist at solar plexus, Fist at far thest nipple, Fist at other shoulder, Fist at small of back, Fist at center of back; Elbow out:Fist on top of shoulder, fist on hip, Fist at ribs...

Ask a medical authority before trying any exercise I might recomment or constructed.

I would look to making a video clip~ and posting the exercises I made-up, basically.

No_Know

[cjurakpt]

How would you go about stabilising and strengthin the shoulder i know its the problemv that effect the solution but some broad exercises. Also i didn t understand i no_ know what were u saying?

it depends entirely on where your "instability" is located: e.g. - RTC tear versus labral tear versus anterior dislocation etc., etc.; medicine for one = poison for the other, so to speak...

do you have a specific diagnosis? or are you just curious in general?

[cjurakpt]

What is the difference between tendonitus and impingement?

tendonitis is localized inflammation of a given tendon, the non-contractile part of the muscle that attaches it to bone; impingement in the shoulder typically referes to the tendon of the rotator cuff muscles getting caught under the acromion process as it slides proximally during shoulder abduction; of course, one can get tendonitis as a result of this, and swelling of the tendon can then worsen the degree of impingement

this is a pretty reliable source of info:
http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?topic=A00032

[viper]

no know do you know about pranic healing very similar to what ur tallkin bout i wanted one for ring fights lol. Also im just interested in general exercises. ill get the ultra sound when i have the money.

[cjurakpt]

no know do you know about pranic healing very similar to what ur tallkin bout i wanted one for ring fights lol. Also im just interested in general exercises. ill get the ultra sound when i have the money.

the concept for shoulder girdle revolves around the presumption that in general, most everyone is tight / facilitated in their upper traps, pecs, biceps, lats and subscapularis / teres major (internal rotators / flexors / horizontal abductors) and over stretched / inhibited in their shoulder external rotators (supra / infraspinatus, teres minor), rhomboids and especially lower trapezius; so the idea is to lengthen / detonify the former and strengthen the latter; this may be complicated by trauma history and presence of fascial restrictions / trigger points in some or all of the muscles that you are targeting, as well as restrictions in the thoracic spine that keep it from fully extending, meaning that you may not get certain muscles (lower traps especially) into the "correct" length to do what you need to do; also, the cervical spine, respiratory diaphragm, costal muscles, quadratus lumborum, iliopsoas and other "distant" muscles / structures can have an impact on shoulder function to varying degrees, possibly interefering in functional there ex;
anyway, just some general ideas; of course, if you are having symptoms of any sort though, I wouldn't recommend trying any of the above until you can get it checked out by someone licensed / qualified

[Yum Cha]

tendonitis is localized inflammation of a given tendon, the non-contractile part of the muscle that attaches it to bone; impingement in the shoulder typically referes to the tendon of the rotator cuff muscles getting caught under the acromion process as it slides proximally during shoulder abduction; of course, one can get tendonitis as a result of this, and swelling of the tendon can then worsen the degree of impingement

this is a pretty reliable source of info:
http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?topic=A00032

you da MAN.

[Oso]

No_Know, thanks...i'll occasionally go through periods where I do just the exercises I was shown in PT and get some relief and such. but, then I go back to hard contact martial arts and it all goes to pot again.

[No_Know]

I get that there is a lot of study on health, the body, and healing to come out of India. I got what I got as I was comming-up. Stopped learning. I now only make adjustments to my understandings/comprehensions as I think-ish appropriate.

I no_know prana fauna or sauna, but I hear there is something good about each.

No_Know

[Black Jack II]

This is all well and good but can anyone tell me why my right shoulder used to make a strange rubber band stretching noise a few years back when I would stretch it out to the rear.

:eek: