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k gledhill
01-10-2008, 08:33 AM
THE WAY OF WSLPHB VING TSUN
The way of Ving Tsun is very simple…or so it should be. Ving Tsun is recognised all over the world for its simple, direct and efficient approach to unarmed combat. It is a system of fighting that relies solely on concepts and principles rather than named techniques.

In a confrontation there is a loser and a winner. Anybody is capable of losing but winning needs a little more effort and thought. The idea of Ving Tsun is how we can best achieve this goal.

Ving Tsun is used to correct our mistakes or the bad habits we've developed through our normal life. Everyday we do things through habit without thinking that wouldn’t serve us very well within a fighting scenario. It is human nature that when we are involved in confrontation we are erratic and do things without any control. Its either fight or flight.
An untrained person when he/she fights will tend to swing, punch, grab and kick all over the place in the hope that something connects and has success. This puts us in danger of serious injury and defeat, unless we are lucky of course. The system of Ving Tsun is used to correct and improve these habits so our bodies can become more useful and therefore more effective for combat.
We all have two arms and two legs and there is only so much we can do with our bodies and more so do wrong. Ving Tsun teaches us to adopt a stance and particular posture for balance and mobility. It teaches to increase the amount of power we can distribute through our limbs and it teaches us to strike with precision and control. Ving Tsun also teaches us strategy for combat and a scientific method of fighting that should help us achieve victory.

In the beginning we are taught Siu Lim Tau (Young Idea). This “young idea” relates to the development of how to use elbow. This is needed for punching with power whilst also giving us protection and the ability to find a clear line of which to punch through. Siu Lim Tau also teaches us basic structure. We need a good foundation for support and to deliver the correct force. The training of pointing the feet or toes in, the training of the elbows to come in and forward, keeping our hand and body still when executing our arm movements and our balance and impact force are all introduced to the student. Then Dahn Chi Sau for a basic understanding of how the elbow is used.
Once we have developed the idea of the elbow and basic structure we use Chum Kiu and the Muk Yan Jong to develop the idea of the quickest route to the target, the synchronicity of action and the correct use of power and force. Poon Sau and Chi Sau are used to train/improve our correct behavior, thinking habits and reactions as well as our force, balance, distancing and structure. Gor sau and later sparring are used to stress us so we can find our errors and mistakes, which will be revealed under pressure
When we find these mistakes we must then know where to go to correct them so the forms and the drills are used as tools to correct errors and not like other Martial Arts where they use techniques as a one dimensional response to any particular action.

….”During training you shouldn't be concentrating on application and training components that are pointless for actual combat but rather training your body and mind for fighting. We must always be aware of our partner’s mistakes, and ourselves, and correct them accordingly so we can improve. If we were perfect we wouldn’t need to train.

Ving Tsun is a complete Martial Skill. Many can fight effectively without certain components and understanding of these components in Ving Tsun but without the correct knowledge Ving Tsun will always seem somehow lacking in certain areas. This has lead to many many versions of Ving Tsun under many different titles that simply do not conform to the basic principles.
The aim of Ving Tsun is to attack your opponent in the most direct manner. To achieve this effectively we must strike hard, have swiftness in our movements and also possess a level of power so that when we strike it renders our opponent unable to continue. How we get there is a different path for everyone and can lead to many frustrations. Our Teachers have an important role in our journeys. If the Teachers approach is flawed then so too will be the students unless the student possesses a certain intelligence and is able to see what can work and what cannot. Unfortunately not everybody has this intelligence and they will blindly continue to follow fantastical scenarios that are not effective in real life combat.

….”Understanding the genius of Ving Tsun should take no longer than an afternoon. By then everything should be clear”

Philipp Bayer

The beauty of Ving Tsun lies in its simplicity.
So that we can successfully market Ving Tsun for the future we must be able to keep the explanation of it as simple as the system itself. Siu Lim Tau for the basic idea of the punch and the creation of correct structure. Chum Kiu and the Muk Yan Jong to develop simultaneous movement of the upper and lower body and the correct delivery of power. Chi Sau and peripheral drills to create fluidity of action and spontaneous response. The Long pole to develop increased start speed of the feet, the synchronicity of the limbs and preciseness of action and power. The knives to develop intent, strategy and the awareness of danger. Although the practice of Ving Tsun, for many, is a lifetime ambition and can pose many headaches, the concept of simplicity, directness, efficiency of action and explanation should always be present. If you think of Ving Tsun and your thoughts pose many difficulties something is wrong. The difficulty lies in the development of the body and the skill in executing the actions. This should be our daily goal and whilst some may succeed where others fail we should never give up. Hard work and practice are what make people great. Rome wasn’t built in a day.

The way of Ving Tsun and in particular WSLPHBVT is a systematic journey of practicing concepts and principles relating to combat. The end result being the possession of a complete fighting unit and also the achievement of something that has been passed down by some very skilful pugilists of recent times. The evolution of fighting may continue to grow and change but how much more is there to come. Nature will always be our enemy and therefore show us our limits. Regardless of what time period you are from or your views on combat, Ving Tsun will always be right up there if executed by the right person. The skilfulness and cleverness of the people that have shaped Ving Tsun have assured of this.

Graham Handbury

WSLVTKFAE

sanjuro_ronin
01-10-2008, 08:36 AM
Having seen the many threads on WC and the long pages of threads on any given WC technique, like the bong one for example, I don't see "simple" and WC going together.

k gledhill
01-10-2008, 09:12 AM
funny :D i agree but it is simple stuff...the training drills chi-sao can give the impression its a long drawn out process of low bong high bong this baong that bong for that and if he does x I can do 34 degrees bong and step :rolleyes:

one bong ... too many ideas ;)

sanjuro_ronin
01-10-2008, 09:24 AM
funny :D i agree but it is simple stuff...the training drills chi-sao can give the impression its a long drawn out process of low bong high bong this baong that bong for that and if he does x I can do 34 degrees bong and step :rolleyes:

one bong ... too many ideas ;)

As an outsider looking in, I see that many WC people get caught up in the details and over look the big picture.
WC always seemed simple and direct to me, it was the TCMA equivelent to western boxing - simple, easy to learn, very effective and easy to add to any MA to make it even better.
Of course that is what I thought it was...
Fact is, it seems bogged down with pointless arguments, lack of adaptability of its practioners and people more focused on the "real WC" than the real effectiveness.

WC as a system is great, too many of its practitioners have made it "less than ideal".

Now I know many will just say " so what" and the inevitable " works for me", and that is their perogative of course.
Doesn't help in the evolution of WC, but it is their perogative.

stonecrusher69
01-10-2008, 09:41 AM
Nice post...:)

Paul T England
01-10-2008, 01:26 PM
Yes Wing chun is simple in application but like everything in life you have layers of knowledge and information. Why would you still train after x number of years if you did not continue to develop and learn?

Paul

sanjuro_ronin
01-10-2008, 01:29 PM
Yes Wing chun is simple in application but like everything in life you have layers of knowledge and information. Why would you still train after x number of years if you did not continue to develop and learn?

Paul

Boxing, MT, Judo, wrestling...etc.
All simple really, not overly complex at all, limited forms in the case of Judo, none in the case of the others.

Liddel
01-10-2008, 03:34 PM
I agree VT is far from simple. I feel there is a lot of disconnect between the fighting and learning.

The learning is far from simple, but the fighting is and should be simple/direct...

We get people thinking they can apply several actions before catching a target when a one two punch or a kick is more than ample.

I was guilty of this in my early days.

Personally i like all VT has to offer, even though my habbit actions for fighting may only be five to ten actions of hundreds that i can bring out in Chi Sao etc.

Better to have it and not need it IMO.....

DREW

unkokusai
01-11-2008, 02:12 PM
Boxing, MT, Judo, wrestling...etc.
All simple really, not overly complex at all, limited forms in the case of Judo, none in the case of the others.

I wouldn't call any of those "simple," but I agree that the training and application of them is ideally more practical and directly applicable than some others.

couch
01-12-2008, 08:45 AM
I've often heard the saying: The Wing Chun river is narrow, but very deep.

This saying is used to imply that while the initial concept is simple, you can take it as far as you want.

Best,
Kenton Sefcik

couch
01-17-2008, 12:15 PM
Hey Kevin,

Do you still have access to that video of PB punching the heavy bag and working out with that student?

It was on his website as an embedded video, but now I can't find it!

Thanks,
Kenton Sefcik

k gledhill
01-17-2008, 02:38 PM
his new site has the chi-sao clip now...

attacking someone isnt that simple..
heres another article that is good reading...

Objectives of the ving tsun with a view toward the fight.

Timing,
Muscular Resistance,
Velocity,
Power,
Flexibility,
Strategy,
Coordination
Mind Instinct
Syncronicity of movement.

These are without doubt the basic aspects and necessary for fighting, in any martial art or sport of contact. In WSLPBVT we try to coach these points during our daily training. We begin with the forms that give ourselves the technical necessities and the tools, to begin to change the habits natural of our body in fighting.

In the 1ª form we begin to coach our elbow (so as to understand how it functions), the vertical fist and the line of necessary force. It also coaches us patience, and the concept of the lat sao jik chung. We learn how to behave before the fight and the strategy that we will use in battle. All this does not make a lot of sense if we do not conjugate our textbooks (the forms) with something more real. We begin to coach the chisao to learn to use, at first, the assembly of our forces and those of our training partner. It is very important the use of the force in our Ving Tsun. With this we begin to coach the mind, the syncronicity of movement, the coordination and the line of necessary force to generate power in our blows.

In the 2ª form we begin the following level, that to begin to move. We learn to use our body, at the beginning like a block to obtain stability and force. Then we coach the way to step and as to cut the way. We begin to execute several things at the same time, and more than one thing with a single step. Inside we coach Lap sao. With this 2 step in the training we continue coaching the power of our blows, the equilibrium, the coordination, the strategy. ..........

Up to now we have seen only the fundamental pieces of our system. At the beginning we to learn to use the body to generate power by means of the linear of force. In these two forms we coach, conjugating with exercises, the coordination, the strategy and the equilibrium. This along with the chisao we begin to coach the timing, the velocity, and the muscular memory, without forgetting use of the equilibrium and the linear force. The forms are coached in our system, without doing applications of the movements of the forms and always thinking about concepts, in this manner slowly and progressively the mind is coached so that assimilate not techniques but concepts. Then with aid of the ball (hanging ball with a rubber elastic) we coach the focus and the coordination of eye- hand important for the fight. To improve the power, the muscular resistance and the fist we coach exercises with the wall bag, the heavy bag and the pole. The exercises vary in function of the answer in our body that we want to progress. For example we do very hard and long exercises with the objective of the muscular resistance. Recalling that low stress our blood does not flow well and the muscles should be usual to work in extreme situations, so that when this occur not to remain us without being able to do nothing (at least muscular). Coaching the stress with exercises, from chisao and above all in first sparring and then fights. The battle that is to teach our main objective, the end that we seek with our training. In the coaching we stress, the timing, the mind, the strategy, the instinct. ............ With all this begins our work of Ving tsun at every step following we go improving the abilities acquired in the previous step, with things but complicated to promote our work. The weapons help the hand so much in power, as in the stress and in timming. The dummy is a indispensable "friend" that one must use everyday to reinforce the principle of the training. As you see, we begin the training and we go forward. We go coaching all the things in the system according to the principles. The outcome is the ability to fight alone using the method of wslpbvt.

Ernie
01-17-2008, 03:14 PM
Nice blueprint Kevin,.....;)
Toss in some S&C Non VT full contact research and it's a great formula :cool:

Steeeve
01-17-2008, 04:13 PM
Ernie

I like your Avatar could you give me:) BTW nice web site.....

Steeve

Ernie
01-17-2008, 04:39 PM
Ernie

I like your Avatar could you give me:) BTW nice web site.....

Steeve
LOL it's yours man ;)
Just copy it

Thanks on the site :D

k gledhill
01-17-2008, 05:29 PM
It was translated so reads as such....