Honest question to all regarding Gwai ma

[JPinAZ]

Because I honestly am interested in a open discussion, I am going to ask a question that stemmed from another recent thread:

Does your system of WC have Gwai ma? (whether in a form or not..)
If so, what can you tell me about it? What does the term Gwai ma mean to you?
What is it's function? What are the mechanics? What concepts or principles drive it (if any)?

Jonathan

[anerlich]

Jonathan,

do you have an answer to your questions?

[stonecrusher69]

I never heard of it , so I don't know. What does it mean in English?

[Vajramusti]

I give my own opinion- and speak for no one else and quarrel with none..In some ways simple=
no mysteries.
Presumably gwai ma-involves dynamic stancing involving knee dipping. Principles of knee usage emerges in many places in wing chun. It need not be in biu jee-it can be in some folk's biu jee
or in dummy, weapon or various drills. In application- like many wing chun motions depending on timing, skill and experience it can be used for attacking, jamming, breaking, deflecting , dipping low attack and other goodies. Basically- a name until meaning is provided for it.

joy chaudhuri

[CFT]

SC69, literal translation would be kneeling horse/stance; only one dipping knee (thanks Joy) at a time though.

I've not trained enough to see it where I have trained. I have seen it applied by a Yip Chun lineage teacher. He got the opponent's back, collapsed their stance so that *they* were kneeling and used body weight and gwai ma across their calves as a means of control.

[Mike Sheng]

It threw me there,I call it Gwai sut.

[NgGung]

Because I honestly am interested in a open discussion, I am going to ask a question that stemmed from another recent thread:

Does your system of WC have Gwai ma? (whether in a form or not..)
If so, what can you tell me about it? What does the term Gwai ma mean to you?
What is it's function? What are the mechanics? What concepts or principles drive it (if any)?

Jonathan

Yes, as I understand.To some Master Yip Man taught this as a development drill to prepare for Lu Dim Boon Guan along with others. It has use in wc not in dropping down to punch groin like some other system but in Kum la like CFT mention by Ip Chun instructor he has seen. It seem to be taught less over year because not many people go this high training under Master Yip. It is also found in Yong chun white crane and pole form of Crane. If this helps to you!:o

[Phil Redmond]

SC69, literal translation would be kneeling horse/stance; only one dipping knee (thanks Joy) at a time though.

I've not trained enough to see it where I have trained. I have seen it applied by a Yip Chun lineage teacher. He got the opponent's back, collapsed their stance so that *they* were kneeling and used body weight and gwai ma across their calves as a means of control.

Chee is correct. It's kneeling (horse) stance. Maybe I'l put up a clip of some of it's applications on my website.

[NgGung]

Yes, as I understand.To some Master Yip Man taught this as a development drill to prepare for Lu Dim Boon Guan along with others. It has use in wc not in dropping down to punch groin like some other system but in Kum la like CFT mention by Ip Chun instructor he has seen. It seem to be taught less over year because not many people go this high training under Master Yip. It is also found in Yong chun white crane and pole form of Crane. If this helps to you!:o

I find 2 clips from Weng Chun system also.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq73JRPJPEc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a498NKd2vsE&feature=related

[Liddel]

It's kneeling (horse) stance.

This was posted a week or so ago....
Is it what we see here at 1:08 ?

http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ui6rj58DA0

DREW

[Wu Wei Wu]

It appears in Hei Ban Wing Chun in Chum Kiu form, where the motion is carried out in 2 (of the 10) sections. It was taught as:

a) level change to avoid a strike;
b) redirecting received force with the oscillation of the hip;
c) to enable a mid to low level hand strike; and
d) kum-na to bring an opponent down

It was also taught in a continuous drill where you redirect, drop knee (and strike) and then repeat on the other side.

It also appears in the sword form where it is more for avoidance and slashing low.

[Mr Punch]

Good question.

John D. Virgilio's line (Robert Yeung) has it but not in their biu gee, as a stand alone san sik.
No time to discuss it now, but it's for distancing, low driving punch, set up for arrow punch and other drastic footwork, and there's a trip involved from some angles if I rmember rightly

[CFT]

This was posted a week or so ago....
Is it what we see here at 1:08 ?

http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ui6rj58DA0

DREWI would say yes.

[Mr Punch]

Read the thread now... Yep, John Virgilio's line call that move gwai ma too, and teach that application, though there was also one where you put say your right foot behind their left heel, drop for the gwai ma with the punch and twist in so you basically occupy their space and drop them backwards right there as a trip.

EDIT: not far off this (http://youtube.com/watch?v=zH2gzs1r68k) one from sambo. The difference was it's from a closer distance already (you don't step in) so you can drive straight down and through their centre with a punch. Incidentally, the shoulder strikes I learnt in Sam Kwok's line worked very well with the gwai ma in this way (almost exactly like that sambo one) when I learned this trip in MMA.

[couch]

My Sifu taught it as Kwai Saat.

I use the motion when I need to lower myself for any reason quickly. I have heard of it used successfully or defending a shoot.

My long-time kung-fu brother (Dave) went to train at an MMA school where the instructor received a concussion from this movement. The instructor went for the shoot and his opponent dropped one knee while twisting his hip bone into the instructor's head. He was knocked to the floor with a concussion. Dave was exchanging acupuncture treatments (for post-concussion symptoms) for instruction!!!

Just some tidbits.

Best,
Kenton Sefcik

[sanjuro_ronin]

My Sifu taught it as Kwai Saat.

I use the motion when I need to lower myself for any reason quickly. I have heard of it used successfully or defending a shoot.

My long-time kung-fu brother (Dave) went to train at an MMA school where the instructor received a concussion from this movement. The instructor went for the shoot and his opponent dropped one knee while twisting his hip bone into the instructor's head. He was knocked to the floor with a concussion. Dave was exchanging acupuncture treatments (for post-concussion symptoms) for instruction!!!

Just some tidbits.

Best,
Kenton Sefcik

Are you saying that you friend Ko'd ( or at least gave a concussion) to a MMA instructor by dropping his hip on his head as he went in for a shoot?

[couch]

Are you saying that you friend Ko'd ( or at least gave a concussion) to a MMA instructor by dropping his hip on his head as he went in for a shoot?

Sorry. Poor explanation.

The MMA instructor went into competition and received a concussion due to this defense.

This story was told to me by my friend Dave who joined the MMA school after this occurrence and is an acupuncturist like me.

Hope this clears things up.

Best,
Kenton Sefcik