Trapping in Wing Chun

[Wu Wei Wu]

Following on from the discussion on evasion...

Do you practice trapping in your Wing Chun? If so, how?

What is the purpose of trapping?

Do you look for a trap, or is it inadvertent?

Is trapping compatible with Wing Chun or is it just 'chasing hands'?

Suki Gosal

[kung fu fighter]

Hi Wu Wei Wu,

My #1 objective is always to hit the attacker as directly as possible; however, there are times when that is not always possible; therefore, Trapping which is a by product of structure comes into play once my initial strike is obstructed or blocked. I use Trapping as an ends to a means to clear obstickles on my way to the attacker'ss center of gravity.


Navin

[tjwingchun]

My personal opinion is that "trapping" is the essence of "chi sau", once you have found your opponents arms you control them into a position where they cannot hit you (trapping) and you can hit them.

Lap´s, gum´s, lan´s, etc are all methods used by which you "trap" an arm to prevent it striking you.

Just because these methods are not held for any length of time to maintain a hold does not mean they are not considered as TRAPS.

When is trapping not grappling? When is pinning not holding? Choose your own language to explain you own methods and if you are unhappy with the word being used buy a thesaurus.

[g-bells]

trapping is also "cutting" into the OP's obstacle while you are hitting

[reneritchie]

"Trapping" always sounds like JKD seepage. Is it cool enough a term to be used in WCK? Aren't we too busy awesomely breaking bridges and devastatingly poking eyes to lay cheese in the the little mouse springs of JKD'ish trapdom?

Just saying...

[Wu Wei Wu]

Lol. Agreed, trapping is very Jeet Kune Don't.

[g-bells]

"Trapping" always sounds like JKD seepage. Is it cool enough a term to be used in WCK? Aren't we too busy awesomely breaking bridges and devastatingly poking eyes to lay cheese in the the little mouse springs of JKD'ish trapdom?

Just saying...

is that directed towards me?

[Wu Wei Wu]

I am sure Rene's post was a general observation only and not aimed at anyone in particular.

Interestingly, it was a JKD man who asked about my trapping methods that prompted me to start this thread. Although I hinted my position on trapping in the initial post, just to clarify:

I was not taught trapping. Trapping tends to indicate something that is intended or searched for. Instead, I was taught that although something resembling a trap could occur, it took place only during the transition stage of trying to hit the opponent (it was inadvertent). Anything less than attempting to hit and hurt your opponent was tantamount to chasing hands and therefore inefficient.

So, we never spent time on, for example, enter the dragon-esque pak sao entry drills. Although, I appreciate that there may be some merit in trying to 'clear the entry to a target', there is no reason to focus solely on just one target!

Suki Gosal

[Mr Punch]

My personal opinion is that "trapping" is the essence of "chi sau", once you have found your opponents arms you control them into a position where they cannot hit you (trapping) and you can hit them.Interesting. I was taught that getting the position to hit your opponent was the essence of chi sau... and that was by someone in the same line as you.

Anyway, my personal op is that trapping is almost accidental: a product of having good forward elbow position and the right energy when your strike hits an obstacle, and using that to flow round/blast through/pin down/all three that obstacle.

It should never be looked for.

I don't, OTOH, see any problem with choosing to beat the **** out of someone's arms if head-hunting/body shots are proving difficult however. I don't see that as chasing arms, just an extension of 'nearest (viable) target, nearest weapon'. Good strikes to the arms can use chum/unbalancing/uprooting etc etc and still disrupt/control the centre.

[tjwingchun]

Anyway, my personal op is that trapping is almost accidental: a product of having good forward elbow position and the right energy when your strike hits an obstacle, and using that to flow round/blast through/pin down/all three that obstacle.

It should never be looked for.

I don't, OTOH, see any problem with choosing to beat the **** out of someone's arms if head-hunting/body shots are proving difficult however. I don't see that as chasing arms, just an extension of 'nearest (viable) target, nearest weapon'. Good strikes to the arms can use chum/unbalancing/uprooting etc etc and still disrupt/control the centre.
No argument from me with that, the whole concept of "ENTRY TECHNIQUES" is that you try to strike and your opponent stops you, then you control the arm preventing the strike and attempt another hit, if this is then prevented, the blocking arm is again controlled and trapped to allow free flow of blows to whichever area chosen.

As an aside using my experience of working as a bouncer as well as developing self defence understanding for public service types, casualty nurses, police, prison staff who deal with violent types on a daily basis yet CANNOT use strikes without facing an inquiry, I have gone down the direction of controlling situations and resolving them through more passive techniques rather than the simple elbow in the nose option.

Application always depends on the level of violence faced, number of assailants and whether weapons are involved. In my mind chi sau gives you the experience to feel and respond instinctively to situations, to control and trap an attacker to give you time to make the conscious decision whether they are no longer a threat and let the situation defuse, or that they need some time to ponder their next move and knock them out :D

[reneritchie]

is that directed towards me?

It was directed towards Suki.

And thanks for the Taxi Driver flashbacks...

[LoneTiger108]

Do you look for a trap, or is it inadvertent?

Interesting question. I was of the understanding that a trap had to be 'set', so I would generally plan my trapping strategies to work with my strongest attributes.

Now sometimes this is hard to do, and you find yourself being able to trap someone because of something they do that you hadn't calculated. More of a response though, so I'd prefer to be in control as much as possible...

[donbdc]

Trapping simply means putting your opponent in a situation where he can't hit you and you can hit him. It can be done w/ hands, foot work or even better both.

[g-bells]

It was directed towards Suki.

And thanks for the Taxi Driver flashbacks...



:D glad i could help

[AmanuJRY]

I was not taught trapping. Trapping tends to indicate something that is intended or searched for. Instead, I was taught that although something resembling a trap could occur, it took place only during the transition stage of trying to hit the opponent (it was inadvertent). Anything less than attempting to hit and hurt your opponent was tantamount to chasing hands and therefore inefficient.

So, we never spent time on, for example, enter the dragon-esque pak sao entry drills. Although, I appreciate that there may be some merit in trying to 'clear the entry to a target', there is no reason to focus solely on just one target!

Suki Gosal

The time I spent working on pak sau entrys and 'trapping' techniques gives me considerable skill in counter-striking when I spar.;)

In fact, when I spar, pak sau is probably my most used technique....that or yap gerk.

[Mike Sheng]

Having practice both Wing Chun and JKD.You never look for a trap,your goal should be to hit and trap if necessary.

[couch]

I don't, OTOH, see any problem with choosing to beat the **** out of someone's arms if head-hunting/body shots are proving difficult however. I don't see that as chasing arms, just an extension of 'nearest (viable) target, nearest weapon'. Good strikes to the arms can use chum/unbalancing/uprooting etc etc and still disrupt/control the centre.

I see it somewhat like what you wrote.

If the arms are getting in the way, they'll get pinned to the body with centreline pressure, knocking the opponent off balance and (hopefully) while getting a punch at the same time or shortly thereafter the pin/trap.

Best,
Kenton Sefcik

[YungChun]

The time I spent working on pak sau entrys and 'trapping' techniques gives me considerable skill in counter-striking when I spar.;)

In fact, when I spar, pak sau is probably my most used technique....that or yap gerk.
IMO most of the techniques have an outside and inside application. So, many of them can be used to assist entry.. In either case IMO the purpose is to clear the line and hit--hitting being paramount as some have said.

Chasing hands means you lost a half beat and should have hit him already.. :) Which means you may be taking a shot about now..

I recall hearing that pak da was a favorite among some from the old days in Hong Kong.. I think it also has a lot to do with the style of those you fight/spar with.

[AmanuJRY]

I think it also has a lot to do with the style of those you fight/spar with.

For sure!

I end up using pak da alot because one of my usual sparring partners is/was a boxer. Against kickers and grapplers it doesn't come out so much.

[sifu garry]

Hi All,

This is a clip of me doing live chi sao with a student in Foshan, China, at Sifu Lau Chi Kwong school. I was lucky enough to get a trap on him.

Hope you enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2WEYWgRffo

I have posted some interesting forms on wooden dummy routines and SLT forms, on my forum, for all to enjoy. There are various Sifus from around China performing their different routines.

www.shaolinjeeshinwingchun.com.au/jeeshin/wing_chun_about_us.html

Comments are welcome.

Most forms are pre Yip Man lineage.

Regards
Sifu Garry

[Alan Orr]

Hi Guys

This is an article I wrote some time ago on trapping.

http://www.alanorr.com/htdocs/articles/doestrappingwork.html

Regards

Alan

[sifu garry]

Hi All,

Please click on the links below, to view various Chi Sao demonstrations and live performances with different wing chun schools around southern China.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPGa2wrSiAk

www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ryDZmc9uKM

www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2T852lqzPg

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2WEYWgRffo

www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjTx_d3LfFI

www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gexMnt_qLw

www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYcH83ZMlNY

www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBr8XoCUn4E

www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7wGuPIqbCA

www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMG0mGDeCjw

www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeAxb7aqsfE

www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVUmzI9XoCM

www.youtube.com/watch?v=in4UksLfPLo

Enjoy and compare and feel free to make a comment.

At my forum @ www.shaolinjeeshinwingchun.com.au/forum/

there are wing chun forms and wing chun dummy performances for your enjoyment



Sifu Garry
Shaolin Jee Shin Wing Chun

[Ali. R]

When one is lazy he wants everyone else to follow his laziness...

When your opponent is stepping away after being hit or blocking a shot, he is trying to regroup for offense, if you follow what goes that would be the opportune time to run a trap, and that would almost keep one from embarrassing himself while laying on his back screaming “that’s not wing chun”!!!

So why take a shot or let a shot come out?

Not only does trapping takes care of your opppnent's arms, but it also plants his feet into the ground (keeps one from kicking or shooting in) to the point it would be hard for him to move around...

Trapping is hard to do especially in the heat of battle, if one cannot execute trapping or choose not to acknowledge it’s importances or eliminate the ideal, then one has a problem understanding range, timing or the ideal of just standing close when fighting, and have no true stand up mentality or understanding (wing chun mentality)…

When one has that problem (trapping), then one has to start over and find out why it didn’t work (way ahead of their ability to do so), rather then tossing their wing chun right out of the window piece by piece to the point that they will need some other art to try to make their so-called understanding work, that’s cheating yourself and your student…

Only when one can’t do or to lazy too do, they’ll find some other reasons to explain why that certain technique is useless 50% of the time… The technique is not useless, one is just lazy and wants something for nothing… I was taught if it’s in the system then it can be used when one chooses too, then one must really train hard to find the answer…


Ali Rahim.

[Ali. R]

Oh snap, here’s some trapping…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpVxPYpXaFQ

One's very first move could be a trap when understood…


Ali Rahim.