Question about a ranking system

[PKN]

im wondering wat is the system call when the begginer starts with a black belt

[Fox]

Never heard of any system that starts you at a Black Belt. Well maybe if it was bought.:confused:

[PKN]

the belt is made out of silk if it helps lol?

[B-Rad]

It's just a ranking system someone made up. Probably doesn't have a name. Some kungfu schools set up their own ranking system but use silk sashes rather than karate belts. In Chinese martial arts there's not traditional ranking system.

[Shaolin Wookie]

99% of the CMA schools I've seen have ranking systems (only ones that don't are private-lesson-type schools with few students, like the longfist teacher I had).

The "traditional" tag is misleading. I think we ought to rather say "standardized".

There is no "standardized" system of ranking between any two schools. It's all based on the teacher.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Green Dragon Society in Chicago starts with a Black sash.

[jigahus]

They probably mean that once you get your black you are now a master of the basics and you can now start learning the true system (?)

[brucereiter]

im wondering wat is the system call when the begginer starts with a black belt

ying jow pai eagle claw system here in atlanta has a ranking system that starts with a black sash/belt and goes up to a white sash/belt. the master instructor wears a white one and the beginners wear black ... i dont think it matters

[HOKPAIWES]

It is not uncommon for a school to start you off at black. Ranking in one MA doesn't have mean the same or follow the same rules as TaekwonDo and Karate etc.. . Southern Blue Dragon for example starts with no sash, then moonlight silver(which has nothing to do with fighting skills but is based soely on ones behavior over a year or more), blood red, royal purple for instructors and ends on masters gold.

[STUDD WILSON]

When i studied Northern Lohan years ago black sash was the second ranking a student got. After that the next was red sash and thats as far as I got.

[Shaolinlueb]

the black sash is meant to hold up your pants and keep your stomach in. doesnt mean anything :p :dontknow:

[jdhowland]

Some Tibetan White Crane schools, including mine, start with a black sash. This has been in use for a few generations. Black symbolizes humility and in Tibetan Buddhism, the lowest level of sentient beings. There are six colors in all, representing six levels of being, six emotions to be overcome, the six-syllable mantra (om-ma-ni-pe-me-hum) and six progressive stages of awareness.

[SifuAbel]

In Chinese martial arts there's not traditional ranking system.

Yes, belt ranking systems are Japanese. It was adopted in the U.S. by CMA schools because of the familiarity Americans had with Karate.

CMA mostly had a familial hierarchy. To-dai, si-dai, si hing, tai si hing, si-fu, sigung. etc etc. Respectively, youngest brother, younger brother, older brother, oldest brother, father-teacher, teacher's teacher-Grandfather.

[Oso]

Some Tibetan White Crane schools, including mine, start with a black sash. This has been in use for a few generations. Black symbolizes humility and in Tibetan Buddhism, the lowest level of sentient beings. There are six colors in all, representing six levels of being, six emotions to be overcome, the six-syllable mantra (om-ma-ni-pe-me-hum) and six progressive stages of awareness.

that's pretty cool.

[onehawaiian]

our society doesn't give it a name.
we start off with nothing, and first sash is black.
the ranking is strictly in house allowing other sifu to gauge each practioner's level of knowledge and/or exp.
and at some point we come full circle back to black sash, signifying new beginnings.

[ngokfei]

Ying Jow Pai uses the Black Sash first because it was the most readily available and cheaper then the colored sashes. The only colors they had were Black, Yellow Green and White. Now they've added stripes to each color rank.

when I started teaching I tried to use this ranking but it contradictd with the mass marketing needed to have a viable school.

still I made up a color symbolism to explain it.

Black means beginner because we are ignorant and in darkness

Yellow is knowledge that sheds light on all.

Green is growth and maturity we experience over time.

White is awakening.


Now that I look back it can be kind of hookey:D

[chris marshall]

Green Dragon Society in Chicago,Il. used sashes for rank. You started with nothing then after proving yourself deserving you earned a black sash then purple sash then on until you you reach red sash which is a very high honor. The Chinese art of Gung-Fu is not at all structured like the more traditional Japanese and Korean martial arts. Some may think adversely about getting a black sash in your early stage of study but that is because they are basing their thoughts and opinion on something that they don't understand.

[David Jamieson]

Belt or ranking systems in TCMA are not uniform or shared across the board in any way.

Oldy Timey Traditional Chinese martial arts schools do not use sash or belt ranking at all. Just filial association or simple hierarchy of student/teacher.

This has come about in North America due to the popularity of Japanese arts and their ranking system, because the Japanese have a habit of pigeon holing every single little thing. It must be named, give a place in the table and remembered! lol.

But it is generally agreed upon that a belt ranking system was instituted by Kano for his Judo rankings.

It caught on in other Japanese arts and then overflowed into Asian martial arts in general particularly those that were being propagated in North America.

typical of Kung Fu schools is the use of five animals/elements/phases when using sash ranking. So, it is typical to see white/gold/green/red/black and variations on that theme to be in line with cosmological and metaphysical understandings.

Having said all that, I think there are a couple of styles that do it that way. Probably to avoid association with the whole "ranking" stuff.

[GeneChing]

im wondering wat is the system call when the begginer starts with a black belt
That would be my system. Students start with a black belt. Masters wear a nacho color belt, which is the same color as this forum. ;)

[David Jamieson]

That would be my system. Students start with a black belt. Masters wear a nacho color belt, which is the same color as this forum. ;)

That's nacho belt!

[bawang]

Oldy Timey Traditional Chinese martial arts schools do not use sash or belt ranking at all. Just filial association or simple hierarchy of student/teacher.




ming dynasty army has a 9 level ranking and the rank is written on a wooden identity badge. the unique aspect is you can be demoted

[Lucas]

thats why i glad you teach me wombat kombat. you must fight for supremacy and survival. if you are weak, your rank is devoured by the spirit of the wombat.

[Orion Paximus]

Without a ranking system, I couldn't highlight my vast superiority in a class setting. I mean how else are they all supposed to know to bow to me every time I make eye contact with them or **** very loudly? It would be chaos I tell you!

[David Jamieson]

ming dynasty army has a 9 level ranking and the rank is written on a wooden identity badge. the unique aspect is you can be demoted

Not to be facetious here, but ALL military has ranking. It is not unusual in that manner. And demotion...yeah, that is possible in all military as well. :)

[bawang]

Not to be facetious here, but ALL military has ranking. It is not unusual in that manner. And demotion...yeah, that is possible in all military as well. :)

not squad rank, combat rank, from fighting in tournaments.

if you win a fight you are promoted, if you lose a fight you are demoted.

[Lucas]

not squad rank, combat rank, from fighting in tournaments.

so you could have a higher combat ranking than your superior officer, right?

[bawang]

so you could have a higher combat ranking than your superior officer, right?

no. then you become superior officer.

[Lucas]

So then your fighting combat rank determines your military rank? if you lose at fighting you lose officer rank?

[bawang]

in ming dynasty, during war time you are promoted by number of kills. during peace time you are promoted by tournament fighting.


if you lose at fighting you lose officer rank?

during peace time yes. during war time no

because the job of the squad leader is to survive and give commands

[Lucas]

now thats a manly rank system.

[bawang]

now thats a manly rank system.

its also very direct to the point.

there is no colors, no "eagle" rank "bear" rank. there are three tiers, good, medium, bad. each tier has three levels, 1,2,3. together they make 9 levels.

highest ranking is good 1, lowest ranking is bad 3.

[Scott R. Brown]

The style is known as "The Merlin Style"!

You start out as a black belt/sash and work your way down to white belt/sash!

[bawang]

The style is known as "The Merlin Style"!

You start out as a black belt/sash and work your way down to white belt/sash!

black belt is the highest rank becaue it symbolizes the black man. the black man is supreme ultimate being

[Syn7]

What about the Japanese story of starting with a white belt and it just gets dirty and after years it's black no matter how much you wash it? I dunno where I heard that. I've never really concerned myself with rankings. Usually you can tell who is what just by watching. I hate to see people rely on colors for quality. Way too subjective.

[Bacon]

What about the Japanese story of starting with a white belt and it just gets dirty and after years it's black no matter how much you wash it?

Lies. Jigaro Kano was the origin of the belt system. The other arts adopted it from judo. Before that it was the menkyo system which was certificates. A belt was worn simply to keep your kimono closed.