The Wing Chun stance

[B-Rad]

I tried a Wing Chun class last year, and found the stance very uncomfortable. Turning both knees in so much was quite a bit painful (I do have past knee problems, so that might be part of it), and the manner in which the pelvis was tucked to the point of created a backward slant (rather than leaning forward or keeping a straight line from head to floor) seemed extremely impractical not to mention uncomfortable. Is it beneficial in ways you don't notice at first? What's the reasoning behind it? Other than that, I like the system, and was thinking about giving it a second shot once I can get my knees a bit stronger.

To be more specific about the training, the teacher is of Moy Yat lineage, and he said he's not yet a "sifu" rank (basically he's teaching at a local community center, but is technically under the supervision of one of Moy Yat's disciples). Was told in the stance that the knees should be close enough together to hold one of those fat striking pads between them... but I just can't do that :p

[reneritchie]

If something is uncomfortable, it may just require effort (training over time) to improve. If something is painful, it might be better to find a less-painful way of doing things.

There are many different methods taught to implement the Wing Chun Kuen approach to fighting. For example, I keep my spine straight most of the time, not leaning one way or 'tother. Others keep their feet parallel rather than inwardly rotated.

One of WCK's great strengths is that it's core is so dang good, if you really want to train it, you can find an approach that suits both your physical abilities and your personal tastes.

[LoneTiger108]

...Turning both knees in so much was quite a bit painful (I do have past knee problems, so that might be part of it)

Generally, the Sifu would recognize your pains at this early stage and 'ease you in' more gently. I've also had may fair share of knee issues but I've only found that they have got stronger with Wing Chun practise.

Try not to be put off by one family or interpretation. Look around and research other schools and possibly mention the issue at the beginning to save wasting any time.

Personally if a Sifu is not willing to adjust teaching to aid your personal growth and development, they may not be worth spending your time and money on...

[sihing]

Hey B-Rad,

In most WC lineages, not all, the feet are angled in approx.45deg, while in the neutral (YJKYMA) stance. In WSL lineage, at least the people I'm learning from, each foot represents the back foot of the forward stance (e.g. if in right hand forward lead, the left foot of the neutral stance is represented here as the rear foot). Now if your foot is pointed away from center, or out, then the alignment of your facing is messed up and the structure of your lower body in relation to your upper body is broken. Facing is one of the things taught first, as it is unatural for most to face square on like we do while fighting.

The knee's IMO should not be in a close as the instructor told you. For me, when I rotate my feet in, ala pigeon toed stance, that act itself brings my knees in enough naturally, with the heels approx. shoulder width apart. To pinch them in more, so that you can hold a striking pad btwn them is incorrect, as that would put your weight distribution off balance, and make your stance way to narrow. Also, the spine is straight, not leaning back or forward. You strive for perfection with this while in practice, especially during forms work like in Siu Nim Tao or Chum Kiu, because when the 5hit hits the fan, nothing works perfect. If you practice it leaning back, your already off balance, what do you think your reflex will be when your fighting. Think of it this way, you want to have stability in your stance, enough to absorb some force thru it, using the ground as support. You start this process standing still, then adding movement/footwork, so that you have both stability and mobility while fighting.

I agree with Rene, if something is uncomfortable (mostly everything is regarding WC during the beginning stages of learning), then more practice is needed. If it is downright painful, then you adapt it to whatever you are capable of doing without the pain.

Just my loonies worth, good luck to you in your future training;)

James

[reneritchie]

BTW - **Always** make sure your knee is pointed in the same direction as your foot. Whether your toes face front, in, or out, the knee needs to be in the same exact direction or pain and physical therapy will follow.

(This is common sense, from injury prevention, which means it's often ignored).

[sihing]

BTW - **Always** make sure your knee is pointed in the same direction as your foot. Whether your toes face front, in, or out, the knee needs to be in the same exact direction or pain and physical therapy will follow.

(This is common sense, from injury prevention, which means it's often ignored).

I learned that lesson when learning how to pivot as Sifu Lam's. Even though he has a great cement ground, with a little bit of residue on there to make it a perfect environment to learn (meaning there is little friction with the ground to impede the process), I still twisted from the hip with the knee following but the foot staying behind a bit. Nothing serious but I felt that twist in the knee for a couple of days after words.

James

[Wu Wei Wu]

In David Peterson's DVD on the first form he states that the stance should be made 'personal' in that what fits you may not necessarily be the right fit for someone else. I think this is a good way to view it.

The function of the stance is far more important than the look. And, to suggest that the knees should be close enough to hold a pad is pointless.

[sihing]

In David Peterson's DVD on the first form he states that the stance should be made 'personal' in that what fits you may not necessarily be the right fit for someone else. I think this is a good way to view it.

The function of the stance is far more important than the look. And, to suggest that the knees should be close enough to hold a pad is pointless.

I think eventually this is what happens, and I think this process is prevelant throughout the whole system. If you look at Wing Chun as a training method it fits right in, as we are all individuals with different abilities and attributes, you have to tailor make the system to who you are when you use it for real. In training it should be strict, especially in the beginning, later on as your skill and wisdom with it increases you make it your own:)

James

[Mr Punch]

If something is uncomfortable, it may just require effort (training over time) to improve. If something is painful, it might be better to find a less-painful way of doing things.This is correct and essential to remember. It's for you to learn the difference between pain and discomfort. Unfortunately this can take a while too!


Generally, the Sifu would recognize your pains at this early stage and 'ease you in' more gently. I've also had may fair share of knee issues but I've only found that they have got stronger with Wing Chun practise.This is correct and essential to remember. Don't let the sifu tell you that it's not hurting if it is... he should be telling you how to do it so that although it's uncomfortable at the end you have a healthy burn in your muscles, and no pain in your joint.


In WSL lineage, at least the people I'm learning from, each foot represents the back foot of the forward stance (e.g. if in right hand forward lead, the left foot of the neutral stance is represented here as the rear foot). This is same as what I was taught in different lines.


Now if your foot is pointed away from center, or out, then the alignment of your facing is messed up and the structure of your lower body in relation to your upper body is broken. What are you talking about? Are you talking about 'your centre' in this case being a single vertical plane extending from your centreline? When you turn to face it's the front foot that's angled in towards that plane: it's impossible for the back foot to be. Would you mind clarifying for us?


The knee's IMO should not be in a close as the instructor told you. The 'IMO' is 'correct'.


For me, when I rotate my feet in, ala pigeon toed stance, that act itself brings my knees in enough naturally, with the heels approx. shoulder width apart. To pinch them in more, so that you can hold a striking pad btwn them is incorrect, as that would put your weight distribution off balance, and make your stance way to narrow.The 'incorrect' is incorrect!

The point about 'naturally' is to train your body into a different concept of natural reactions/positions. That's not to say you have to be a contortionist, but that you are slowly pushing the natural boundaries of your comfort level. IF you practise that way, an extreme knee-in stance can feel perfectly natural after a while. IF you don't practise that way it won't.

It doesn't alter your balance at all, if the other points on this thread are considered, and it doesn't make your stance 'too narrow'! 'Too narrow' for what?! Your heels are in the same place, it's only your knees that are in further, so if you are balanced in your relationship to the centre how would this change your balance? Of course it's too narrow to fight in, but 'train low, fight high', right? In back stance it doesn't matter. In a squared off stance I don't use the SLT stance anyway, but I try to keep the pressures and feeling in my legs the same, so if I've trained low I can feel it more.

Lots of lines train a closer-kneed stance: my first sifu said to practise with an egg between your knees: if your stance is weak you drop it, and if you're putting pressure on the knees in a damaging way, you crush it. He also said he could never be arsed to do so however, and I only tried it a couple of times! :D A PET bottle is a more moderrn substitute though, top off, filled to the top with water.


Also, the spine is straight, not leaning back or forward.This is also correct IMO but needs further explanation.

| (body)
| (upper leg)
\ (lower leg)
- (foot)

Looks about right to me, facing left.

Not:

| (body)
/ (upper leg)
\ (lower leg)
- (foot)

Or:

\ (body)
/ (upper leg)
\ (lower leg)
- (foot)

The second (and third) one will

a) cause strain on your knee joint
b) cause your pelvic girdle to be tilted so your arse sticks out and you lose connection and therefore power between upper and lower body
c) cause you to lean back to take the pressure off your knees.

The first one will cause you discomfort in your quads, but none in the joints themselves, and you can feel the hip tucked in a little but not locked out rigidly.


BTW - **Always** make sure your knee is pointed in the same direction as your foot. Whether your toes face front, in, or out, the knee needs to be in the same exact direction or pain and physical therapy will follow.

(This is common sense, from injury prevention, which means it's often ignored).Yep. Deffo. I had trouble with my knees before I started wing chun, from dodgy aikido practice (aikido SHOULD also not cause knee problems... but many practitioners get them), and when I started chun they got better pronto.

Just a few ideas. Obviously all this is too much for you to take in at once B-rad (you may not think it is but when you come to do the stance you'll be like, ... duh!) but should give you something to look for in the sifu's teaching.

Hopefully some of Moy Yat's studes will post in a bit to give their tuppence.

[Sihing73]

Hello,

Just an FYI not all lineages teach the pigeon toed stance, some have the stance wider and foot position more straight ahead. (Sorry I'm too dumb to spell parallel correctly :D) Don't want Phil correctly my spelling or grammer if I can help it.

[B-Rad]

Yeah, I noticed that in a Pan Nam WC vcd.

Thanks for the advice everyone. It was definitely pain in the joints rather than the usual comfortablenesses that comes with new types of training (I've done martial arts in some form for the last 15 years, so I'm familiar with good pain and bad pain ;)). Unfortunately, my work schedule changed immediately after that initial lesson so I wasn't able to go back and discover what kind of adjustments we could make. Went to the doctor recently and found I had some kind of degenerative condition in my knees. Getting better though since I stopped working during the week, and started practicing my taiji again.

[reneritchie]

The thing is this: If you find one tire wears out, you replace it, it wears out again, you replace it again, etc. it may not be the tire but something higher up the chain (alignment, for example).

Some Western medicine tends to treat pain at the site of pain, and if they are cutters, they will just love to cut on you. While this may sometimes be necessary (severe trauma), often you can do specific things to identify the root causes of the problems in the chain and then specifically work on correcting them.

Good physio's, chiro's, etc. (the kind who will identify your problems to you, give you specific progressive exercises to do on your own to help fix them, and adjust you along the way) can give you a new lease on life. (As opposed to those who just want to string you along with session after session of superficial massages/cracks).

And when in doubt, walk, walk, walk. Nature can do marvelous things auto-correcting posture.

[monji112000]

I tried a Wing Chun class last year, and found the stance very uncomfortable. Turning both knees in so much was quite a bit painful (I do have past knee problems, so that might be part of it), and the manner in which the pelvis was tucked to the point of created a backward slant (rather than leaning forward or keeping a straight line from head to floor) seemed extremely impractical not to mention uncomfortable. Is it beneficial in ways you don't notice at first? What's the reasoning behind it? Other than that, I like the system, and was thinking about giving it a second shot once I can get my knees a bit stronger.

To be more specific about the training, the teacher is of Moy Yat lineage, and he said he's not yet a "sifu" rank (basically he's teaching at a local community center, but is technically under the supervision of one of Moy Yat's disciples). Was told in the stance that the knees should be close enough together to hold one of those fat striking pads between them... but I just can't do that :p

I know nothing about moy yat's WC, but my opinion and what I have found is that the knee pinching is for many reasons. I do not believe this stance is for "fighting".
In fighting, any stance depending on the situation is possible. Someone has mis-informed you do not push your hips in a drastic position. The stance should be natural. The basic concepts are general and should be applied to more realistic stances when sparring and fighting.

I could break down each aspect of this stance, but I'm sure we would not be on the same page. I would look at look at Allan's (orr), I don't use the horse exactly that way, but its for the most part the same structure that I believe is correct.

Knee pain is common, but it should pass if it doesn't you are doing something wrong.

[Ultimatewingchun]

I tried a Wing Chun class last year, and found the stance very uncomfortable. Turning both knees in so much was quite a bit painful (I do have past knee problems, so that might be part of it), and the manner in which the pelvis was tucked to the point of created a backward slant (rather than leaning forward or keeping a straight line from head to floor) seemed extremely impractical not to mention uncomfortable. Is it beneficial in ways you don't notice at first? What's the reasoning behind it? Other than that, I like the system, and was thinking about giving it a second shot once I can get my knees a bit stronger.

To be more specific about the training, the teacher is of Moy Yat lineage, and he said he's not yet a "sifu" rank (basically he's teaching at a local community center, but is technically under the supervision of one of Moy Yat's disciples). Was told in the stance that the knees should be close enough together to hold one of those fat striking pads between them... but I just can't do that :p


***I WAS ONE of Moy Yat's original students here in the U.S. - training with him from May,1975 - to May, 1983 (he came to New York City from Hong Kong in September, 1973)...and I was never taught to hold the knees that tightly in toward the center.

[k gledhill]

I met a girl who trained with a macclone school that taught her to waddle forward in the stance and block groin kicks by squeezing her knees together...when she showed me and asked me to kick her it was all I could do not to laugh :D waddle waddle waddle kick me ! waddle waddle :D:D:D

[monji112000]

I met a girl who trained with a macclone school that taught her to waddle forward in the stance and block groin kicks by squeezing her knees together...when she showed me and asked me to kick her it was all I could do not to laugh :D waddle waddle waddle kick me ! waddle waddle :D:D:D
what about teaching people to think?

[B-Rad]

Someone has mis-informed you do not push your hips in a drastic position.
Just to clarify the hips part:

http://www.kungfulife.com/archives/weight.JPG

Even that seems like over tucking to me.

[k gledhill]

what about teaching people to think?

?? teaching to think ?? I dont follow you.

[LoneTiger108]

Just to clarify the hips part:

http://www.kungfulife.com/archives/weight.JPG

Even that seems like over tucking to me.

I think you'll find that this way of leaning is only present to compensate the iron rings on Ip Mans Tan Sau!


I do not believe this stance is for "fighting".
In fighting, any stance depending on the situation is possible. Someone has mis-informed you do not push your hips in a drastic position. The stance should be natural.

You must believe! Honestly why is it so hard to imagine? Most people I know who have perservered have found their whole body re-align after a while, feeling somehthing along the lines of a replenishing effect.


I met a girl who trained with a macclone school that taught her to waddle forward in the stance and block groin kicks by squeezing her knees together...

:D I know this type of teaching. Sounds funny, but more akin to farming imho. You see, we're all talking of 'Kim Yeurng Ma' here (that's Gripping Goat Stance/Horse!) If your Sifu has ever used the 'shearing goats' example, you would have waddled across the floor in the early days! ;) Nothing wrong with that either, as long as it's taught in context...

Has anyone here ever sheared a Goat?? It's not bloody easy!

[k gledhill]

It boils down to not having a real understanding of the system , and attempting to make the basic 'knees in stance' an application for self-defence purposes. Its a teacher attempting to fill the void of understanding with 'applications', rather than training positions that serve a clear purpose , only havent been explained , so they search for reasoning to strange positions to justify it to the poor student.

You can teach people the correct way to fight moving freely as a boxer day one, I do , only within our structure guidelines , and how they fall apart without training in real controlled fighting with me, THEN i show them using the stance and SLT as a time to develop attributes on ones own , and how to improve the requirements for freefighting , not redundant waddling . Trying to make a person waddle around using the stance as a self-defense act to recieving a kick to the groin is naieve and foolish and shows a level of understanding better than any words could....only a fool would do this. Would you waddle in front of a bulls charge ? In a fight the assumption is you would adopt a yjkym stance as the response !! [lmfaorotf icon unavailable] :D

[monji112000]

Just to clarify the hips part:

http://www.kungfulife.com/archives/weight.JPG

Even that seems like over tucking to me.
that doesn't clarify anything. A picture without the context means nothing. Instead you should look to feeling, and testing it. Once you understand what a solid horse feels like, you don't need to believe anyone.


IYou must believe! Honestly why is it so hard to imagine? Most people I know who have perservered have found their whole body re-align after a while, feeling somehthing along the lines of a replenishing effect.


The reason why I don't believe this stance is the best stance for a fight, is simple. I have tried many stances, and this one isn't the best. I could list many reasons, but its my personal observation. You don't need to stand exactly like this to use all the concepts. Just to drive the point I believe strongly that the normal wrestlers stance uses all the same concepts. Its all about meaning, and understanding not blindly following.

If you are hell bent on using the square stance then turn it so you are not completely open.

I do train with this stance, I'm not saying its a bad stance... only that its a tool for a purpose. Nobody hammers with a fork. So take the concepts and fight with a more natural stance. I believe strongly in the famous Ip Man saying " don't believe me, you must find out for yourself".

[AmanuJRY]

Just to clarify the hips part:

http://www.kungfulife.com/archives/weight.JPG

Even that seems like over tucking to me.


A view that helped me understand...

'Don't worry how much you 'tuck' you hips, rather concentrate on leading any movement with the center of mass.'

of course in stationary practice, like SNT, the movement is implied...therefor the 'tucking' of the hips.

at any rate it should feel natural to you.;)

[T.D.O]

i call it "the training stance" or "adductor stance", you train the adductor muscles agonistically...... so to me it's a training tool... not a fighting stance... but that's me, others in my class use it


i have the knees one fist distance apart (as i've read) and my sifu all way's ask's if i'm comfortable like that.... but i feel that i can get my whole foot on the ground, if it's more than one fist distance i feel as if i'm on the edge's of my feet.... but again that's me



but WTF do i know lol

[AmanuJRY]

i call it "the training stance" or "adductor stance", you train the adductor muscles agonistically...... so to me it's a training tool... not a fighting stance... but that's me, others in my class use it

True, the stance is more a platform for training than a fighting stance, but it does contain attributes you will use in a fighting stance....hence, why it's called a training stance.

[T.D.O]

agreed... ;)


sorry "other's in my class use it as fighting stance" that should of read btw

[monji112000]

True, the stance is more a platform for training than a fighting stance, but it does contain attributes you will use in a fighting stance....hence, why it's called a training stance.
Its really about what your goal and what the situation is.

unless you hop you can't move with your legs equal, everyone must put one foot in front of the other. If you choose to just turn your horse, then a equal stance will work fine. I can see situations were turning the horse would be the only option.

The other problem is strategy. When I stand equal and I have my whole body square I open myself up ... have a large open target painted all over my body. My chest is exposed, my groin ect.. That doesn't mean that you will have the chance to prepare a stance..

I personally believe in the neutral stance for drills, simply becouse it forces you to forget what foot is forward. You become good at both orthodox and unorthodox.

[B-Rad]

I suppose some of this stuff you just have to feel first... and this guy doesn't waddle around in that stance ;) If he did, or if he didn't have skills that I'd like to have, I wouldn't even consider training there :p He has some very good skills that I lack, which is why I'm interested in the classes. Previously, most of what I'd seen of Wing Chun application outside of movies was those awful Wing Chuners getting whooped on in those older fighting clips, and similar videos. This guy has real skill though. He's well conditioned, has good power and speed, and can trap, parry, and stick well.

[couch]

True, the stance is more a platform for training than a fighting stance, but it does contain attributes you will use in a fighting stance....hence, why it's called a training stance.

Agreed.

The way I look at the stance, as well as the heel-drag when I'm walking in a side-horse or back-horse, is that it is training my leg muscles to have explosive power. Because of the static stance or when I'm pushing into the ground, the leg muscles are getting one heck of a workout.

Because Wing Chun is not a static martial art and requires one to move quite quickly at times, this spring-loaded nature of the legs allows one to either fire down the centre or side step (and then come back to centre) with speed and power.

So, in closing, I think that the stance has a great potential to making a person a faster and better fighter.

In the interview with Roy Jones Jr., he was caught doing a lot of exercise-bike work (before he fought Trinidad), and he said that the legs make the fight. I agree.

Best,
Kenton Sefcik

[T.D.O]

Its really about what your goal and what the situation is.

unless you hop you can't move with your legs equal, everyone must put one foot in front of the other. If you choose to just turn your horse, then a equal stance will work fine. I can see situations were turning the horse would be the only option.


i use my legs equal, but feet forward (maybe slightly inward)

the problems i have with the training stance are moving forward and getting "torque power" when my foot is allready turned....

but keep in mind that i'm only on SLT btw.... LOL

[k gledhill]

You need the fighting 'bubble' so to speak...chum kil & SLT

[monji112000]

i use my legs equal, but feet forward (maybe slightly inward)

the problems i have with the training stance are moving forward and getting "torque power" when my foot is allready turned....

but keep in mind that i'm only on SLT btw.... LOL

I did the first form for a few years, so that doesn't mean anything. Someone can learn all three forms the first few months or just the first form. Its all about how the Sifu teaches the whole system. I learned elements of all the forms and many stages. Don't look at the forms as stages, like beginner, middle , master ect.. Thats complete BS that people create. Many people learn all the forms.. and still suck. Learn 1 form and know every little detail. Understand why on every single move. Understand how to apply everything.. its about quality not quantity.

The torque comes from the turning of the whole body. one connected mass, once you disconnect one part of the body from the other you loose the force. If you start with you foot turned in ( I do for the form, but not in drills) you still have all the torque. How does your sifu say to move forward? Does it feel very odd? If so probably somethings wrong.

[T.D.O]

I did the first form for a few years, so that doesn't mean anything. Someone can learn all three forms the first few months or just the first form. Its all about how the Sifu teaches the whole system. I learned elements of all the forms and many stages. Don't look at the forms as stages, like beginner, middle , master ect.. Thats complete BS that people create. Many people learn all the forms.. and still suck. Learn 1 form and know every little detail. Understand why on every single move. Understand how to apply everything.. its about quality not quantity.

totaly agree.... it's been about a year and a half, still on the first section due to me not wanting to do an assessment LOL so it's really down to me :eek:

i'll answer the rest when i get a bit of time

;)

[couch]

totaly agree.... it's been about a year and a half, still on the first section due to me not wanting to do an assessment LOL so it's really down to me :eek:

i'll answer the rest when i get a bit of time

;)

A year and a half...first section...assessment? What do mean about assessment?

[k gledhill]

test /assesment = $ ?:D otherwise known as grades / belts/ carrots ;) pursuit of almightyness :rolleyes: because the paper says so :D

[couch]

test /assesment = $ ?:D otherwise known as grades / belts/ carrots ;) pursuit of almightyness :rolleyes: because the paper says so :D

...this is what I'm afraid of...

[T.D.O]

a know.... but there's no escaping it :( tried it

there's no other wing chun teacher in my area... not one with the skill's of my sifu's


but what ye gonna do!

[T.D.O]

How does your sifu say to move forward? Does it feel very odd? If so probably somethings wrong.

arc to the center line and forward going back slightly (left foot would be slightly off center to the left) so it would nearly be a half circle

but it's the back foot that's the problem rather than turning 45 degrees you have to turn 90 and also i end up on the ball of my foot, but i guess more practice would get rid of that

equal feet is less of a movement to get a solid stance, from the way i stand all i have to do is put my hip forward.... and i'm ready to go!

[monji112000]

arc to the center line and forward going back slightly (left foot would be slightly off center to the left) so it would nearly be a half circle

but it's the back foot that's the problem rather than turning 45 degrees you have to turn 90 and also i end up on the ball of my foot, but i guess more practice would get rid of that

equal feet is less of a movement to get a solid stance, from the way i stand all i have to do is put my hip forward.... and i'm ready to go!

OK our footwork is completely diff. good luck !:D

[T.D.O]

what style of wing chun do you do and how would you step?

[monji112000]

what style of wing chun do you do and how would you step?

Its hard to explain via words, and we have many ways of stepping but all are based on the basic turning of the horse. Even when you are not square, you still apply the basic ideas the same. If I am reacting to a hook or a round kick I would step one way vrs. using a low shin kick against a straight punch (stepping forward) to setup for a jam (arrow punch) and a cross or a push kick or something else.

If I'm stepping into a hook, I turn my horse to a 45 angle, in the this manner I am walking directly into the power. You can step slightly forward if you want, I have seen people just turn the horse.. I step forward.

If we are talking about stepping forward for a shin kick, its more about timing then footwork but footwork is important. stepping forward with your back foot, using your hips, leaning back.

I never mentioned covering, so you must also combine them with covering using the hands. You can move in any of the 8 basic directions, depending on the situation, and your need.

[couch]

If I'm stepping into a hook, I turn my horse to a 45 angle, in the this manner I am walking directly into the power. You can step slightly forward if you want, I have seen people just turn the horse.. I step forward.


Stepping forward shuts off the power of the attack before it gets up to speed. This is defending through the front door and closing that gap is paramount IMO. But if your Kevin Gledhill, you wouldn't do this cause you might get wet. Just kidding, Kev!

[monji112000]

Stepping forward shuts off the power of the attack before it gets up to speed. This is defending through the front door and closing that gap is paramount IMO. But if your Kevin Gledhill, you wouldn't do this cause you might get wet. Just kidding, Kev!
Sorry my name isn't Kev its Brian just ask Dave.
I don't believe stepping forward shuts the power off. You are catching it early, but more than enough power to knock you out exists still. If you attempt to just run in directly straight, if you are close enough (prob. not becouse he would not kick if you were), and if you are fast enough to beat him to the punch (I will never bet on that one unless I know for sure) then YES you can just jam in and punch. Don't try it in a real fight becouse the Ifs are not going to be yes. Don't assume you are fighting a moron, who kicks slower than my grandmother. You must always assume your enemy is better , stronger and faster.

turning your horse and stepping forward, allows you to use your structure, when combined with covering. Instead of trying to be faster than the person, you instead use technique. JMO and many others. anyway many answers exist.. I prefer this method but I know many people that prefer other methods. This method is the most basic, and fundamental.

[T.D.O]

Its hard to explain via words, and we have many ways of stepping but all are based on the basic turning of the horse. Even when you are not square, you still apply the basic ideas the same. If I am reacting to a hook or a round kick I would step one way vrs. using a low shin kick against a straight punch (stepping forward) to setup for a jam (arrow punch) and a cross or a push kick or something else.

If I'm stepping into a hook, I turn my horse to a 45 angle, in the this manner I am walking directly into the power. You can step slightly forward if you want, I have seen people just turn the horse.. I step forward.

If we are talking about stepping forward for a shin kick, its more about timing then footwork but footwork is important. stepping forward with your back foot, using your hips, leaning back.

I never mentioned covering, so you must also combine them with covering using the hands. You can move in any of the 8 basic directions, depending on the situation, and your need.

cheers mate.... had to read it few times but i think i get the jist of it;)

so does your foot go straight from under your shoulder to the center, taking you from your op's center (@ a 45 degree angle)?

[monji112000]

cheers mate.... had to read it few times but i think i get the jist of it;)

so does your foot go straight from under your shoulder to the center, taking you from your op's center (@ a 45 degree angle)?

not sure what you mean. If we are talking about dealing with a hooking attack (hook, round kick), then your would step directly at a 45 degree angle with the foot nearer to the attacking limb. you would turn completely square into the coming force. You are off his center 100%, and you must turn back in (generating more power and covering). This is again only one answer, and only one type of footwork. I may find a picture or a old clip someone has online. The main idea is again to meet the force dead on, and use your structure to create a preferred impact point. If we are talking about a qwan sao, then its your elbow meeting his shin. This is a very "direct" but basic method. If you don't have a good structure or you don't cover correctly you will be knocked out.
here is a very very old clip of my teacher's fellow classmate doing the circle drill using mostly this footwork. he is using a qwan sao for covering and then following with a tan sao and a punch.http://www.geocities.com/sifuleungmovies/102599a.mpg
again its not sparring so don't take it as a real fight its just a drill

[T.D.O]

a picture or a clip is needed i think LOL

but cheers for the help;)