Iron -Sand Palm Training

[Mantis_Reborn]

Question, while training Iron-Sand Palm Training when is the Dit Da jow applied, before or after? If i remember in LKW's secret to the seven star mantis book he has a formula for making some. Is anyone in this forum familiar with this training?

Also any advice or words of wisdom prior to doing this training?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Before, during and after, at the very least before and after.

[Three Harmonies]

Dit Da Jow is not the proper formula to be using for Iron Palm training. You need a specific formula, specifically for Iron Palm conditioning. Dit Da is more for bruising and contusions.
I would suggest training Iron Palm under a qualified teacher who knows what the hell he is doing, in lieu of doing it on your own!
Cheers
Jake :cool:

[EarthDragon]

mantis reborn, I total agree with three Harmonies on this.

Dit dat Jow is a bruise/sprain ointment, not to be confused with bone/ ligament ointment, aka iron palm herbs. astraligus, lion coin etc etc
As suggested you need to learn from a qualified teacher for your healths sake.

At the vey basic level grossly calloused skin, arthritic bones and deformed joints in the hands are the result of improper training, as well as the deadening of the nerve endings in the fingertips (the most sensitive area in the body next to the tongue) which are directly connected to the optical nerves.

Although the internet is a wealth of information it must never take the place of formal instruction espcially if you are not even sure how, what or when to apply the herbs.

Look for a student near your city who has learned from brian Grey or some other well qualified breaking specialist.

[Dale Dugas]

I teach Iron Palm in its entirety in both seminar as well as private lesson format. It is easy to learn but takes much discipline to master the foundation which is 2 years.

Feel free to contact me for more information.

[Three Harmonies]

I am not sure I would suggest Brian Grey, as I have heard many negative things about him and his teachings. But to each their own.
Jake:cool:

[ngokfei]

In simple terms it would have to do with the method your are training.

Direct or In-direct.

Also using the proper liniment is important.

Dit Da Jow is a generic term. There are 100's of formulas. Certain Dit Da Jow's are usable for the In-Direct Method.

If you are looking for a Dit Da Jow with a well researched formula I'd recommend Yee Chi Wai's (frank Yee) www.yeeshungga.com

and to get a nice overview of what the ingredients are, what there properties are and the method of preparation, I'd also purchase his 1st instructional tape. I believe they also give you a copy of the recipe.

[EarthDragon]

Three harmonies,

Yeah I have heard some rumors and heresea about Brian as well like he had sex with one of his female students, he beats his wife, he gambles yada yada yada .
however I dont believe what others say and dont judge unless I know the truth .... people like to spread rumors without knowing the truth so I take what I hear with a grain of salt especially in the martial arts world.
most people that have something bad to say about someone usually has never met that person, they are only repeating what they heard and so on and so on.

So is it true? who knows who cares I met Brian, studied under one of his top students and have been certified under him and can shatter 2 concrete slabs with no spacers so whatever he teaches works.... thats all that matters to me at this point.

ngofei,
If you are looking for a Dit Da Jow with a well researched formula I'd recommend Yee Chi Wai's (frank Yee) www.yeeshungga.com

and to get a nice overview of what the ingredients are, what there properties are and the method of preparation, I'd also purchase his 1st instructional tape. I believe they also give you a copy of the recipe.

I gotta say that any person or company that is willing to sell jow over the internet has got to be crappy watered down or run of the mill commercialized crap.
i.e recipes are tresured and have been handed down through familes for centuries and are not for sale, nor are the ingrediants public knowledge shared or told to the public.

You would be better off falling for the internet scam that pomises the famous amos cookie recipe for a dollar.
its cookie dough and it makes cookies but it is not the exact ingrediants. make sense?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Three harmonies,

Yeah I have heard some rumors and heresea about Brian as well like he had sex with one of his female students, he beats his wife, he gambles yada yada yada .
however I dont believe what others say and dont judge unless I know the truth .... people like to spread rumors without knowing the truth so I take what I hear with a grain of salt especially in the martial arts world.
most people that have something bad to say about someone usually has never met that person, they are only repeating what they heard and so on and so on.

So is it true? who knows who cares I met Brian, studied under one of his top students and have been certified under him and can shatter 2 concrete slabs with no spacers so whatever he teaches works.... thats all that matters to me at this point.

ngofei,
If you are looking for a Dit Da Jow with a well researched formula I'd recommend Yee Chi Wai's (frank Yee) www.yeeshungga.com

and to get a nice overview of what the ingredients are, what there properties are and the method of preparation, I'd also purchase his 1st instructional tape. I believe they also give you a copy of the recipe.

I gotta say that any person or company that is willing to sell jow over the internet has got to be crappy watered down or run of the mill commercialized crap.
i.e recipes are tresured and have been handed down through familes for centuries and are not for sale, nor are the ingrediants public knowledge shared or told to the public.

You would be better off falling for the internet scam that pomises the famous amos cookie recipe for a dollar.
its cookie dough and it makes cookies but it is not the exact ingrediants. make sense?

LOL !
Interesting post, on one had you defend your teacher from rumours and on the other hand, you say that "I gotta say that any person or company that is willing to sell jow over the internet has got to be crappy watered down or run of the mill commercialized crap. ", without even knowing if that is true or not.

Nice.

[ngokfei]

Now I would be concerned with a school/company that sells their medicine and doesn't inform the student/buyer what is in it.

A teacher's job is to educate their students. This most definetly would also go towards any special linements/lotions used in their training.

I've shown the recipies that Yee Chi Wai shared with us to some well established TCM practitioners and all have said they are very potent. Also if you are concerned with it getting "watered down" they also offer the "Herb Packets" so you can prepare it yourself:)

Those individuals claiming secrets are more than likely duping the public. IF its so much a secret then they should maintain their oaths to the ancestors by keeping it secret instead of opening up commercial schools, taking a students money then saying "I can't teach you that, its a secret":eek:

[Dale Dugas]

Earthdragon,


Some of us real TCMA people go way out of their way to produce some of the strongest medicine out there. I give full disclosure as to what is in the medicine as per ingredients how much is proprietary.

I sell both premade as well as the herbs in kit form so you can make your own. All my kits make 3-4 gallons of medicine. Most people who buy from me are amazed at the amount of herbs they get and how much medicine they can make.

Sanjuro Ronin uses CDIA Supplies herbal formulas as well as others on this forum and others such as Emptyflower, Bullshido, Martialtalk, etc....

I agree with you there are many people out there who sell watered down crap. I am not one of them and it behooves me when you lump all of us together.

The comment about all people who sell over the internet are faking out customers is rather odd as your own grandteacher(Brain Gray) sells his formula online.

I also teach how to make dit da jow as well as use herbs for dit da ke trauma skills for injuries. Im trying to keep an old art alive and its not that easy.

I will be presenting a workshop this year at the Zhang Sang Feng Festival on Dit Da for Martial Artists. Going to be great to get down and dirty with all that is available to those interested.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Earthdragon,


Some of us real TCMA people go way out of their way to produce some of the strongest medicine out there. I give full disclosure as to what is in the medicine as per ingredients how much is proprietary.

I sell both premade as well as the herbs in kit form so you can make your own. All my kits make 3-4 gallons of medicine. Most people who buy from me are amazed at the amount of herbs they get and how much medicine they can make.

Sanjuro Ronin uses CDIA Supplies herbal formulas as well as others on this forum and others such as Emptyflower, Bullshido, Martialtalk, etc....

I agree with you there are many people out there who sell watered down crap. I am not one of them and it behooves me when you lump all of us together.

I also teach how to make dit da jow as well as use herbs for dit da ke trauma skills for injuries. Im trying to keep an old art alive and its not that easy.

I will be presenting a workshop this year at the Zhang Sang Feng Festival on Dit Da for Martial Artists. Going to be great to get down and dirty with all that is available to those interested.

To say that Dale's stuff is top notch, is a huge understatement.

[Dale Dugas]

Thank you brother for the kind words.

I try and will keep trying to get the best medicine for the best price to everyone interested.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Dale is one of the few TCMA that is willing to explain and answer any and all questions with none of that "too secret" crap.
You can go visit him in person even and he is always availble for questions and concerns.
I would not even have contemplated IP without the man, he truly is a warrior and a scholar, and a teacher per excellence.
While I don't follow his system of TCMA, his knowledge is broad based and he is helpful to a fault.
Sure there are some cross dressing issues with kilts, but hey, to each their own !
:D

[Dale Dugas]

Yeah I like Kilts....

Gene has seen me in one and has even sat next to me. Nervous as it made him, he was a good sport about it.

Here is a photo of me wearing the kilt and Gene putting on a great game face.

[yu shan]

Dale

I shot you a pm with questions.

Thanks,

Jim

[EarthDragon]

OK apology in order, yes there are the few honest people on the internet who are willing to share with others without profit or something to gain by doing so.
So if you are in that catagory ie Dale ....I sincerly apologize and should not have been so general.

my point however, is famous amos has great cookies but would not be willing to share his recipe with anyone, other wide how do yo sell more cookies?

My teacher gave me the recipe and I would not be willing to give to anyone. however if someone needed some I would be willing to give already made up bottle to anyone for free.
I am not looking to make money nor does my financial future depend on how much I sell.

but dont think for a minute that people that make things, grow things or produce things dont keep the best for themselves. just human nature.

So thats why i said what I said trust me while living in SF I bought some white crane jow from a famous master and it was kinda weak. he said that for commercial use not personal, here is personal strength that was much stronger

[woliveri]

Guys,

Didn't the OP ask about Red Sand palm? Is this the same as traditional Iron Palm Training or different? Also, is Red Sand Palm the same as Cinnabar Palm?

Dale, do you teach Red Cinnabar Palm?

Thanks.

[Dale Dugas]

Guys,

Didn't the OP ask about Red Sand palm? Is this the same as traditional Iron Palm Training or different? Also, is Red Sand Palm the same as Cinnabar Palm?

Dale, do you teach Red Cinnabar Palm?

Thanks.

I do not teach Red Cinnabar Palm. I teach Tieh Sha Zhang(Iron Sand Palm) which is what is called Iron Palm here.

[kal]

Is there even such a thing as red cinnabar palm?

Isn't this one of the fake BS arts in the 72 consummate Shaolin arts pulp fiction?

[Dale Dugas]

I would assume that book is BS through and through.

Cinnabar is toxic.

Not something to use EVER.

[ngokfei]

The method of red/cinnabar palm is/was a skill.

Its not practiced much any more due to the toxic material used.

The idea is to train the palm in such a way that it develops the strength and penetrating essence while also being able to seal out the toxins from being absorbed into the skin.

Fanzi quan was famous for its red sand/cinnabar palm skill.

Just because the skill isn't practiced today doesn't make it BS:rolleyes:

[Three Harmonies]

Counter Point: If something had great worth to the masses it would survive through today in most cases. Somewhere along the line people started to figure out that playing with toxins was stupid and not good for you in general. No magic potion, herb or anything else is going to significantly change your fighting ability.
Cheers
Jake :)

[ngokfei]

I would see it more as be an out moded.

Just as martial arts was primarily a weapons based method with hand to hand combat relegated to what if I lost my weapon.

Same thing is followed today. Military training is on usage of ones armaments (guns) and the physical hand to hand combat as a physical and mental tool at best.

the purpose of training in such esoteric and secretive methods are unnecessary anymore. We are no longer existing in such an environment that made those methods viable.

"Don't bring a Knife to a Gun Fight":D