I figured out why we let Illegals in from Mexico!

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

- The Social Security program is broke.

- When an Illegal comes to the US, they get and use an existing citizen's social security number (a form of identity theft).

- When they use a persons social security number, they cannot collect the bennifits because it goes to the real persons account as it is their number.

- If the name does not match the number used, then the money does not go to the real person either, it goes into a dummy account and vanishes.

- My theory is all this dummy account money is funding social security's failing system to keep it going a little bit longer.

In the meantime, many people cannot get unemployment because the system says they are workng 3 jobs already due to several people stealing thier social security number.

Comments anyone?

[MasterKiller]

The main reason we let illegals in is cheap labor. Businesses want illegals because they A) don't have to give them insurance, B) can pay them below minimum wage, and C) don't have to train them because if they get hurt on-the-job illegals rarely report it.

McDonald's has been pushing for the 'guest worker' program for about 20 years because it saves them money.

[1bad65]

MK is correct.

And where RD came up with this I have no idea. :rolleyes: They call them 'undocumented workers' for a reason, they are undocumented! They get paid less than a documented worker and they get paid cash. There is no paperwork so no SS# is needed.

Although they are paid less than a documented worker and are uninsured, their money earned is not taxed.

[the Preacher]

No
it gives the us a bigger tax base.

the US government wants more ways to spend our hard earned money.
and more money to do it with.

giving shelter, medical aid, jobs, +
to
the poor, hard working, Illegals. is just a small part!


"they are taking our children jobs!"


it's not the money, they make the same pay

it's just that adults (illegals) trying to care for a family seem to be more "Responsible" , "Dependable" and "Ignorant" of many rights and privileges

compared to the "America's youth" available for the jobs

:D

[MasterKiller]

MK is correct.

And where RD came up with this I have no idea. :rolleyes: They call them 'undocumented workers' for a reason, they are undocumented! They get paid less than a documented worker and they get paid cash. There is no paperwork so no SS# is needed.

Although they are paid less than a documented worker and are uninsured, their money earned is not taxed.

I've seen economists use the same thing RD said as an excuse to not crack down on illegals. Apparently, around 8,000,000 illegals use fake SS numbers and pay into the system, even though they can never collect the money. We're talking about fast food jobs, etc...that require a SSN to gain employment.

I have a feeling that the drain on health and social welfare resources far outweights the benefits, though.

[Becca]

Could also be that they are willing do do the jobs most of use don't want due to low pay, hard labor, ect. Seriously RD, whould you be willing to mow a lawn in the snow? Needs done, most natural born U.S. citezens don't want to do it for what ever reason... So they do it and support 10 kids, a spouse, parents ect. all on a check that "we" would complain about because we couldn't live the high life with it.

I for one have no intetion of begruding them jobs like feed lot attendants, Dairy maintenance, hand planting sugar beets, ect.

[MasterKiller]

Could also be that they are willing do do the jobs most of use don't want due to low pay, hard labor, ect. Seriously RD, whould you be willing to mow a lawn in the snow? Needs done, most natural born U.S. citezens don't want to do it for what ever reason... So they do it and support 10 kids, a spouse, parents ect. all on a check that "we" would complain about because we couldn't live the high life with it. .

I think plenty of people would do it if it paid at least minimum wage.

Lots of "lazy" Americans work sh1tty, low-paying jobs to support their families.

[Black Jack II]

Could also be that they are willing do do the jobs most of use don't want due to low pay, hard labor, ect.

Not a valid statement if you look at our history. American citizens used to do this ALL the time before the mass wave of illegal aliens came bounding into the country.

If anything illegal aliens are taking jobs an American could have, and could have at a much higher wage.

[1bad65]

Actually Becca is correct according to many economists. If American citizens did those jobs, they would demand more money to do them. And since the employers labor costs will have increased, the price of his product/services will increase.

Part of the reason the illegals will take the job for less money is the fact its tax-free. A citizen would be forced to pay taxes and thus would require higher wages. The employer would have to pay the higher wages and would pass the cost on to the consumer.

[Shaolinlueb]

the MAIN reason we let illegals in is because no one, and i repeat no one wants to pay 10 dollars for a bundle of strawberries. I mean we pay what 2 bucks already?

[1bad65]

Not a valid statement if you look at our history. American citizens used to do this ALL the time before the mass wave of illegal aliens came bounding into the country.

The key word here is 'used'. So many Americans have an entitlement mentality. They feel they are owed a good, not hard job. While many successful people worked hard in their younger years to achive success, that spirit is sadly fading IMO.

The illegals are not taking jobs that Americans want. Really, how many Americans do you know who aspire to be janitors, laborers, dishwashers, etc?

[Black Jack II]

The illegals are not taking jobs that Americans want. Really, how many Americans do you know who aspire to be janitors, laborers, dishwashers, etc?

Sometimes its not about aspiring to be anything. It's just that some people need these jobs to put food on the table because that my friend is how the cookie sometime's crumbles.

But then again, if we were able to put back into the system all the massive amounts of cash we spend on these illegal criminals in the first place other programs would be open for use by those that need it here.

[the Preacher]

its NOT the wage.


laws make it difficult for businesses to employ "full time"



part time, transient worker, contractor,...

do not require the same "Benefit" or "Taxes" or "Protection"



and I don't think the waiters or carpenter or the many other construction companies owned by "illegals"

pick very many strawberries






illegals do pay taxes
everybody pays


I don't know anyone who wants to be poor?



and I know a lot of youth
because they don't have any job
end up in jail



:D

[Lucas]

The illegals are not taking jobs that Americans want. Really, how many Americans do you know who aspire to be janitors, laborers, dishwashers, etc?

Many legal immigrants aspire to attain these jobs. For many coming to America, legally, these are the types of jobs they can get, without schooling or prior work experience in the states.

Illegal immigrants take jobs from a lot of legal immigrants.

I have a friend whos father and mother moved here from vietnam after the war, they both raised their family as janitors at a college, still work there to this day and have put all their kids through college.

What would they have done if an illegal had that job instead?

[sanjuro_ronin]

I had a welding position available for a month, got quite a few people coming in and they all wanted the typical rate or even more so, they all failed the welders test, some were actually surprised they had to do one.
Got an apprentice for 5 bucks an hour less and he welded just as BAD as the ones that wanted more.
Funny thing is that they wanted more money ev3en AFTER they failed the test.
Shortage of skilled workers indeed.

[Mas Judt]

All of it is a mute point.

Just look at Europe - the quickest route to Balkanization is to not have a common language/culture that people adopt to.

We need to enforce our borders, control migration/immigration so that it is a net benefit for us and no migrant workers are left in the shadows. Then we need to make sure that American values - the principles of governance/contract with citizens and civil rights as documented in the US Constitution and bill of rights are passed on to them, along with the language of the land and their NEW history as Americans, not hypen-Americans.

We benefit greatly from controlled immigration, we always have. But since the 60's the mechanism has been seriously off whack thanks to seriously flawed immigration policy set by 'progressives.' We should at least manage our immigration as Mexico does.

Everything else is a recipe for disaster and will lead to the eventual dissolution of the US.

Just my .02 cents.

I concur that the net aggregate of the benefit of illegal labor is probably positive, but the net negative (crime, closed hospitals, government payouts) is not eliminated by the positives. Laws and government programs establish mandates and requirements that are not affected by the market, so they tend to cause the markets to go sideways, resulting in things like closed hospitals because the hospital must give emergency care.

(Which, I approve of, it is humane, if not economically sound.)

[unkokusai]

All of it is a mute point.



The point cannot talk?

[Becca]

I think plenty of people would do it if it paid at least minimum wage.

Lots of "lazy" Americans work sh1tty, low-paying jobs to support their families.
I did mention the pay thing. I also mentioned that they can support huge families back in Mexico off a wadge that would get you a 1 room slum in this country.

[Becca]

Really, how many Americans do you know who aspire to be janitors, laborers, dishwashers, etc?
Plenty, but they are all in unions getting $10-15/hour. I can't help be wonder if all this screeming about non-resident aliens is the samething you find with school yard kids rejecting the new kid who just transfered in. "He/she doesn't talk like me, look like me, ect. He/she must have cooties!"

[unkokusai]

I can't help be wonder if all this screeming about non-resident aliens is the samething you find with school yard kids rejecting the new kid who just transfered in. "He/she doesn't talk like me, look like me, ect. He/she must have cooties!"



NO, its about people breaking the law, depressing wages and opportunities for the poorest Americans, consuming public services and resources they don't pay for, and screwing all the people trying to come to the country legally.

[the Preacher]

NO, its about people breaking the law, depressing wages and opportunities for the poorest Americans, consuming public services and resources they don't pay for, and screwing all the people trying to come to the country legally.

I second that!
:D

[1bad65]

I do not condone illegal immigration. I personally feel the laws should be enforced.

I am pointing out the 'it is what it is' part. For so many years illegal immigration has really been pretty much accepted and thus the illegal immigrants play a large factor in the economy.

If you suddenly rigidly enfore something that has been condoned/accepted for decades it will cause alot of economic problems.

[Black Jack II]

Just look at Europe - the quickest route to Balkanization is to not have a common language/culture that people adopt to.

We need to enforce our borders, control migration/immigration so that it is a net benefit for us and no migrant workers are left in the shadows. Then we need to make sure that American values - the principles of governance/contract with citizens and civil rights as documented in the US Constitution and bill of rights are passed on to them, along with the language of the land and their NEW history as Americans, not hypen-Americans.

This is so money.....Mas Judt teleported into the correct's house, knocked him off the toliet while he was taking a morning deuce, gave him a thousand yard stare, and then took a shower with the correct's 19 year old stripper wife.


NO, its about people breaking the law, depressing wages and opportunities for the poorest Americans, consuming public services and resources they don't pay for, and screwing all the people trying to come to the country legally

This is also so money....unkokusai broke into the correct's house while Mas Judt was taking his time in the shower and then made it his duty to pee on the family cat.

After which he drank all their beer.

[the Preacher]

I do not condone illegal immigration. I personally feel the laws should be enforced.

I am pointing out the 'it is what it is' part. For so many years illegal immigration has really been pretty much accepted and thus the illegal immigrants play a large factor in the economy.

If you suddenly rigidly enfore something that has been condoned/accepted for decades it will cause alot of economic problems.

"what it is" is NOT, nor ever has been tolerated

the laws are enforced
but what used to be a "small" problem
has now turned into an "large"invasion

only silly people think it's been "acceptable"

local enforcement budgets cannot cope with the new "large" invasion

the feds pass laws but don't budget enough for current enforcement
and it has been thrown upon the state and the citizen!

EX

minuteman (http://www.txminutemen.blogspot.com/)

[Becca]

NO, its about people breaking the law, depressing wages and opportunities for the poorest Americans, consuming public services and resources they don't pay for, and screwing all the people trying to come to the country legally.
Nothing stopping them from going out and finding these jobs. just easier to sit in section 8 housing, complaining about how little they can get with food stamps and welfare. :rolleyes:

And you don't have to be a non-resident alien to be breaking the law. My nephew's first child was born right before Christmas. He's working under the table because if he was working honest for a full wadge, his wife would not have qualified for medicaid.

[1bad65]

"what it is" is NOT, nor ever has been tolerated

the laws are enforced
but what used to be a "small" problem
has now turned into an "large"invasion

only silly people think it's been "acceptable"

You and I live in a different world then. It has been accepted by many people. Wrong or right, that is true. Even the politicians from BOTH major parties are terrified of the issue. No one wants to fix it, because they fear not only the impact on the economy, but they fear the 'R word' label too.


local enforcement budgets cannot cope with the new "large" invasion

the feds pass laws but don't budget enough for current enforcement
and it has been thrown upon the state and the citizen!

So is it being enforced or not? You are taking both sides. I say it is technically enforced, but that's like pulling over 1 or 2 cars a day on a road that has a 65mph speed limit full of hundreds of cars driving 120mph. Since the odds are so small of being caught, the law is not being enforced in near the capacity to fix the problem.

[the Preacher]

You and I live in a different world then. It has been accepted by many people. Wrong or right, that is true. Even the politicians from BOTH major parties are terrified of the issue. No one wants to fix it, because they fear not only the impact on the economy, but they fear the 'R word' label too.



So is it being enforced or not? You are taking both sides. I say it is technically enforced, but that's like pulling over 1 or 2 cars a day on a road that has a 65mph speed limit full of hundreds of cars driving 120mph. Since the odds are so small of being caught, the law is not being enforced in near the capacity to fix the problem.

accepted NO, I don't think so
people feeling helpless and unable to do anything, YES
political help is very, very, very slow moving

"oz"tin could be considered another world though:D J/K
being the Capital of the State



well if you only pay 1 cop to enforce
it would be impossible to pull over "every car"

but a roadblock would sure slow things down




:D

[unkokusai]

Nothing stopping them from going out and finding these jobs. .


Did you thnk at all before you wrote this?




And you don't have to be an illegal alien to be breaking the law. My nephew's first child was born right before Christmas. He's working under the table because if he was working honest for a full wadge, his wife would not have qualified for medicaid.


And? American ciitzens commit crimes everyday, what the hell does that have to do with this?

[Becca]

You said, spacifically:

NO, its about people breaking the law, depressing wages and opportunities for the poorest Americans,

I did think before saying that. Just because I have a different perspective than you does not meen I didn't think it through. I live in a part of Colorado where migrant workers are so common that the migrant worker forms for the schools are included in my kids' school registration packets every year. Every class of every grade has at least one kid who has to translate for his/her parents at school functions. I also see parents who are beligerantly American who can't be bothered with parent teacher night, who haven't worked a stable job - ever - and all they can do is complain about "wet backs." The jobs are out there. They can even work under the table at those jobs so their kids don't loose thier medicaid. They choose not to. This is not the fault of the illeagal immigrants. Everyone want's a better life. Those willing to risk jail and deportation to get it seem to me to be more valuable to a community that the one who can work legally but won't unless someone gives them a free ride.

[Mas Judt]

What really shocks me is Preacher is using complete sentences and making logical arguments. Are you same guy as on the other threads?

[golden arhat]

the real reason they let them in is to increase population, that way in the future thegovernment can call on them whenever they decide to pick a fight with whatever country full of brown people they decide to invade next.



lol

[unkokusai]

I did think before saying that. Just because I have a different perspective than you does not meen I didn't think it through.


When I say (leaving aside the obvious BREAKING THE LAW part) that illegal workers depress wages and opportunities (you know, meaning that ALL wages for certain work go down on average as the labor market shifts to take advantage of illegal workers who will work for peanuts - because standard of living is not an issue for them living packed a dozen or more into a one bedroom apartment most of whom are planning on sending the money back to the homeland and who are not invested in their community because they are planning to go home someday and in any case are living under the surface of society as criminals and compared to the 3rd world hell-hole they ran away from even the most squalid conditions are a big step up - and there are fewer of these now even lower paying jobs for those Americans on the lower end of our economic/educational scale who might otherwise take them and might otherwise get paid an almost reasonable amount for their labor but instead find themselves in a labor market that has been skewed by outside and illegal factors that make it all but impossible for these, the most vulnerable of our fellow citizens to successfully negotiate the value of their labor), and you reply with:

"There's nothing stopping them from getting those jobs."

I have to conclude that you did not in fact think about it very much before posting.

[Lucas]

the real reason they let them in is to increase population, that way in the future thegovernment can call on them whenever they decide to pick a fight with whatever country full of brown people they decide to invade next.



lol

I think we need to invade a country full of white people next, maybe somewhere in the UK? :p

[unkokusai]

the real reason they let them in is to increase population, that way in the future thegovernment can call on them whenever they decide to pick a fight with whatever country full of brown people they decide to invade next.



lol


....................dumb :rolleyes:

[golden arhat]

I think we need to invade a country full of white people next, maybe somewhere in the UK? :p

please invade wales i hate that place, beautiful coutnry ruined by people with stupid accents

that and liverpool


lol

[golden arhat]

....................dumb :rolleyes:

it was a joke



like you in some ways :)

[Lucas]

please invade wales i hate that place, beautiful coutnry ruined by people with stupid accents

that and liverpool


lol

consider it done, lemme just call the pres, im sure hes down for a nother invasion.

;)

[unkokusai]

I know it was a joke but like you, it failed.

:D

[golden arhat]

I know it was a joke but like you, it failed.

:D

too shay (i cant spell)

:D

[Lucas]

touche'

these are ninja words, go back the way you came or you will die.

[golden arhat]

touche'

these are ninja words, go back the way you came or you will die.

no one likes a smartass

lol

[andyhaas]

It always seems funny when they call Wales a country, since it's so small it fits in about the space of an American city. But then again, they call Britain a country, too, and it's smaller than a lot of U.S. states.

There is that whole thing about the 'mountains' you can climb, and then you get there and it's just this little hill, like a mound. I think they made a movie about that, too.

[David Jamieson]

corporate greed is the only reason there's been no real effort to secure your border.

illegals will work for next to nothing and be thankful they have a job.

people who own comapnies would rather make big profits and buy a nice mercedes now and then rather than give two hoots for their fellow americans.

greed. That is all.

the biggest opponent should be unions, but even they have become corrupted.

[Lucas]

no one likes a smartass

lol

better to be a smartass than a ******* ;):p

[Black Jack II]

David,

I just love your accept this as truth" cliches."

Hate to breakm it to you but Illegals are directly responsible for their illegal presence. Blaming the entire problem on employers for illegal immigration is like blaming a women for her own rape because she dressed to sexy and the rapist couldn't resist her.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

When I was a kid, I wanted to build cars, so I got a job as an Apprentice auto bodyman in a good shop and I spent years learning the craft.

I started with crap pay and was told part of my pay was the education I was receiving. The ENTIRE industry was like this. People started at a low pay and did apprenticeships. As they learned, they got paid more and more based on how productive they were. There was no one afraid of getting dirty, or doing hard work.

If you worked hard, you learned a solid trade, and could make a good living doing body work. Lots of American kids did this and there are many generations who have supported families by working in this field.

You go into a shop today, and there are NO American born and raised apprentices, only Mexicans who can't speak ANY English. The few Americans still there are the top technitions, or have graduated into the office. Everyone ele has been replaced by illegals.

The illegally immigrated Mexicans work for apprentice wages no matter what thier production level is, so NO ONE hires young Americans as apprentices anymore. Instead they hire guys who learned in Mexico that can already produce for the same wage.


Because of thier presence here (fomr the Invasions in the last 10 years especially), the wages for an entry level bodyman have dropped through the floor, and it is getting worse and worse every year. It's gotten to a point that wages have been suppressed so much by cheap ILLEGAL labor that a good honest red blooded AMERICAN kid cannot enter into a formal apprenticeship to earn bodywork anymore.

Now, the industry did just fine with American workers, and paying good competitive rates going all the way back to when the FIRST car had the first accident. There is no reason why the industry cannot function just as well now by doing things the same way. There is no shortage of Americans willing to work in the industry for a living wage. But what has occured in the last 10 years is TWELVE **MILLIION*** Illegal Mexicans have come and completely ruined a solid industrial career for Native born US citizens.

This has happened in EVERY industry where low skilled or learn on the job careers exists. Now, i have no problem with migrant workers coming here in a legal manor to fill employment rols, but when wave after wave after wave of ILLEGAL invaders comes in and takes jobs they don't even have a right to to such an extreme that they have taken over a once honorable industry, then I have serious problems.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Hate to breakm it to you but Illegals are directly responsible for their illegal presence.

Reply]
The employers who hire them are just as much to blame as well.

[the Preacher]

When I was a kid, I wanted to build cars, so I got a job as an Apprentice auto bodyman in a good shop and I spent years learning the craft.

I started with crap pay and was told part of my pay was the education I was receiving. The ENTIRE industry was like this. People started at a low pay and did apprenticeships. As they learned, they got paid more and more based on how productive they were. There was no one afraid of getting dirty, or doing hard work.

If you worked hard, you learned a solid trade, and could make a good living doing body work. Lots of American kids did this and there are many generations who have supported families by working in this field.

You go into a shop today, and there are NO American born and raised apprentices, only Mexicans who can't speak ANY English. The few Americans still there are the top technitions, or have graduated into the office. Everyone ele has been replaced by illegals.

The illegally immigrated Mexicans work for apprentice wages no matter what thier production level is, so NO ONE hires young Americans as apprentices anymore. Instead they hire guys who learned in Mexico that can already produce for the same wage.


Because of thier presence here (fomr the Invasions in the last 10 years especially), the wages for an entry level bodyman have dropped through the floor, and it is getting worse and worse every year. It's gotten to a point that wages have been suppressed so much by cheap ILLEGAL labor that a good honest red blooded AMERICAN kid cannot enter into a formal apprenticeship to earn bodywork anymore.

Now, the industry did just fine with American workers, and paying good competitive rates going all the way back to when the FIRST car had the first accident. There is no reason why the industry cannot function just as well now by doing things the same way. There is no shortage of Americans willing to work in the industry for a living wage. But what has occured in the last 10 years is TWELVE **MILLIION*** Illegal Mexicans have come and completely ruined a solid industrial career for Native born US citizens.

This has happened in EVERY industry where low skilled or learn on the job careers exists. Now, i have no problem with migrant workers coming here in a legal manor to fill employment rols, but when wave after wave after wave of ILLEGAL invaders comes in and takes jobs they don't even have a right to to such an extreme that they have taken over a once honorable industry, then I have serious problems.



exactly !
:D


What really shocks me is Preacher is using complete sentences and making logical arguments. Are you same guy as on the other threads?
you must be talking about


I, You, We
Todd did?

but this is a complete sentence?