What would be an idea salary for a MA instructor

[SPJ]

with all these discussion about bussiness side of owning, and running a school.

another big issue arises, what would be an ideal or acceptable hourly or monthly wages for an instructor.

ideally?

and what is the actual pay in your school.

highly paid instructors in China

I heard that Huo Dian Ge, he taught Ba Ji to last emperor or emperor of Man Zhou Guo Pu Yi.

Huo got paid 10, 000 da yang per month.

comment away.

:D:confused:;):)

[sanjuro_ronin]

1 million dollars !!
:D

[MightyB]

I guess it's hard to assess a worth to Martial Arts. But here's a comparison for you: I get $33 per contact hour adjunct teaching video and film production at a local community college. It took me less time and years of practice to learn video and film than it takes someone to truly master kung fu [4 to 5 years for a BA degree, about 10 years of professional practice].

[David Jamieson]

well, typically they should get the same amount a personal trainer gets. BUt then, when you are talking big classes, the training is a little more impersonal. I think it varies depending on teh economy you are in.

Housing costs are not the same across the country and expenses aren't either.

If you had a club in lower manhattan in nyc for instance or in downtown toronto for us canucks comparison, it would cost a whole lot more because of the economics of the area. But if you were in nosepick iowa or cattle dumpling alberta, it would be considerably less.

generally you should be going for the same rates as a personal trainer.

[sanjuro_ronin]

well, typically they should get the same amount a personal trainer gets. BUt then, when you are talking big classes, the training is a little more impersonal. I think it varies depending on teh economy you are in.

Housing costs are not the same across the country and expenses aren't either.

If you had a club in lower manhattan in nyc for instance or in downtown toronto for us canucks comparison, it would cost a whole lot more because of the economics of the area. But if you were in nosepick iowa or cattle dumpling alberta, it would be considerably less.

generally you should be going for the same rates as a personal trainer.

I think that if you run classes, you can't charges as much as a personal trainer, private 1-on-1's yes, even small 2-to4 people classes, sure. but not 20+ people.

If someone is make a job out of teaching, they are putting in their 40+ work weeks, then they shoudl get paid accordingly, it would vary in the area as you said, but one hopes that they would make a "tradesman" salary, after all, it is a trade.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I want as much as I can get. $100,000 minimum if I own the school.

That may mean 250 students registered all paying average of $100.00 a month.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I want as much as I can get. $100,000 minimum if I own the school.

That may mean 250 students registered all paying average of $100.00 a month.

And the expenses of RUNNING the school/gym ?

[the Preacher]

consider that your time is really free

a friend might say help me
"freebie"
your friends buddy might say help me
"little cost"
his buddy might say me too
"little bit more"
someone saw you helping and said how much
"a little bit more"
then
some weird person heard and might say how much
"the highest number you can think of"


you can price yourself many ways for the same thing
depending who is wanting what
don't be stuck on a single number
what can you sell yourself for?
it will be different for different people


even for business
if you provide a service
don't tell the person with only a small budget he can't have any
give him an inexpensive option
and for those who can afford extra, have something extra.
------------------------------------------------------

for my part timers (high school) only $6
over 18 varies depending on "experience"
from $7 to $18 per hour

EX
say if you can handle 20 students each hour
and those student paid $5 for each hour ($100)
I still wouldn't want to pay over 20%


:D



to me business is just a "math" formula

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

And the expenses of RUNNING the school/gym ?

Reply]
I want $100,000 AFTER taxes and business expenses. So I need however many students and tuition is needed to do that.

If I can't get that, I would rather just help my friends teach at thier schools and trade that time for lessons in thier systems.

[sanjuro_ronin]

And the expenses of RUNNING the school/gym ?

Reply]
I want $100,000 AFTER taxes and business expenses. So I need however many students and tuition is needed to do that.

If I can't get that, I would rather just help my friends teach at thier schools and trade that time for lessons in thier systems.

LOL !
100 per month + expenses which may be more or at least the same as salary...
200 per month per student?
Nice...

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

No dummy, I want my take home to be One Hundred Thousand Dollars a year AFTER expenses and taxes.

250 students paying me an average of $100.000 a month would be $25000.00 a Month X 12 Months is a gross of Three Hundred Thousand a year.

At $5000.00 a month rent, you would pay $60,000.00 a year in rent, so I think if heat, electric, phone and marketing etc.. should fill up another $40000.00

This leaves a profit of $200,000.00. After Taxes I should do better than what I want, charging $100.00 a month if I have 250 students (like any TKD school has).


Schools in Chicago are charging $125.00 to $150.00 a month, so I can do what I want by being on the low end of the tuition scale.

[sanjuro_ronin]

No dummy, I want my take home to be One Hundred Thousand Dollars a year AFTER expenses and taxes.

250 students paying me an average of $100.000 a month would be $25000.00 a Month X 12 Months is a gross of Three Hundred Thousand a year.

At $5000.00 a month rent, you would pay $60,000.00 a year in rent, so I think if heat, electric, phone and marketing etc.. should fill up another $40000.00

This leaves a profit of $200,000.00. After Taxes I should do better than what I want, charging $100.00 a month if I have 250 students (like any TKD school has).


Schools in Chicago are charging $125.00 to $150.00 a month, so I can do what I want by being on the low end of the tuition scale.

Good luck with that.

[Lucas]

A piping hot chicken cooked over an open fire in the woods, snatched from an unsuspecting prospective student, who wants to train but doesnt want to pay, so you have to steal the chicken from the tree tops, then jack his wine after you eat the chicken when hes occupied with trying to fight you for the chicken back, thus recieving his first lesson.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Good luck with that.

Reply]
It's the standard operating model for all big TKD schools. Many have as many as 350 students.

These TKD cats are raking in some TALL cash teaching their silly art.

[the Preacher]

the problem most sports schools face

is

after school time
or after work time
EX 4-9pm
is "hot"


daytime hours are harder to fill

overhead is 24/7

you have to make that small amount of "hot" time profitable for all the down time

if you can use your facility 12 hours a day "hot'

that would be much simpler







we are all poor

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Why would it be selling out? You can still run a top quality school and turn out highly skilled people. You just have to be smart about how you do things.

When I was in Chung Moo Quan, we trained harder than anyone around, and people were lining up to train that hard.

If those goofy guys can do that, then I can teach right and train students hard too.

When I was in the Chung moo Villa Pk school, there would be 100 people in two classrooms PER SESSION. they ran 2 sessions a nite, both were that full.

If those knobs can do it training students till they drop with complete crap, then any of us can do it too...teaching Kung Fu right.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Good luck with that.

Reply]
It's the standard operating model for all big TKD schools. Many have as many as 350 students.

These TKD cats are raking in some TALL cash teaching their silly art.

Another TKD basher.

Tell you what, when YOU can beat them at THEIR OWN sport, THEN you can bash them, ok?

[lkfmdc]

Based upon a lot of the posts and threads on here, it should be obvious that an instructor should never "sell out" and should make just enough to barely eat and maybe pay rent for a small studio apartment on the edge of town. Beyond that, he'd be disgracing the lineage and ancestors :rolleyes:

[Lucas]

Based upon a lot of the posts and threads on here, it should be obvious that an instructor should never "sell out" and should make just enough to barely eat and maybe pay rent for a small studio apartment on the edge of town. Beyond that, he'd be disgracing the lineage and ancestors :rolleyes:

apartment?

live in the trees and eat stolen chicken i tell you. if the shaw brothers taught us anything, it is that this is the only real way to be traditional.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Tell you what, when YOU can beat them at THEIR OWN sport, THEN you can bash them, ok?

Reply]
Nope, sorry. When they can beat me unrestricted, THEN I will stop bashing Tak Ur Dough.

As it is, I have ONE move that completely shuts down the entire style of TKD. It wouldn't be legal in a TKD comp, and I am not giving it up if I have to fight one.

[the Preacher]

Based upon a lot of the posts and threads on here, it should be obvious that an instructor should never "sell out" and should make just enough to barely eat and maybe pay rent for a small studio apartment on the edge of town. Beyond that, he'd be disgracing the lineage and ancestors :rolleyes:

which "lot" of post is that
ref?
and what is your point?

isn't your school 94% casual contenders learning the "real thing" are you hungry?





i think people stay in the martial arts because they enjoy or "love" it

"sell out" is just a derogatory term thats seems to be based on jealousy.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Tell you what, when YOU can beat them at THEIR OWN sport, THEN you can bash them, ok?

Reply]
Nope, sorry. When they can beat me unrestricted, THEN I will stop bashing Tak Ur Dough.

As it is, I have ONE move that completely shuts down the entire style of TKD. It wouldn't be legal in a TKD comp, and I am not giving it up if I have to fight one.

Oh brother...

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Why do you say that? TKD people don't even keep thier guard up for god sake. How hard is it to defete them? I was beating TKD people when I was in Chung Moo Quan 17 years ago. How good can that style be if a Chung Moo guy can beat them?

Here are some single moves that easily defete them

- Boxers Jab, Cross combo

- Bjj Shoot

- ANY Shui Jiao entry and throw.

- My technique consisting of entering with my hands up, then standing with them at my side untill they give up because they can't do anything against me. I don't even have to attack, I just stuff everything they do by standing really close and in thier foot work space.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Why do you say that? TKD people don't even keep thier guard up for god sake. How hard is it to defete them? I was beating TKD people when I was in Chung Moo Quan 17 years ago.

Here are some single moves that easily defete them

- Boxers Jap, Cross combo

- Bjj Shoot

- ANY Shui Jaio entry and throw.

- My technique consisting of entering with my hands up, then standing with them at my side untill they give up because they can't do anything against me. I don't even have to attack, I just stuff everything they do by standing really close and in thier foot work space.

Great and how would any of those guys do in an olympic TKD match?
Context is everything.
But if you want NHB TKD, I can find it for you, but I asume you have found it and tested it, that is why you said what you said, right?

Now, take into account I have done Kyokushin, MT AND TKD and that I have a 3rd BB in ITF TKD and I have no issues with the MARTIAL ART of TKD.
What exactly is your experience with it?

[bodhitree]

Great and how would any of those guys do in an olympic TKD match?
Context is everything.
But if you want NHB TKD, I can find it for you, but I asume you have found it and tested it, that is why you said what you said, right?

Now, take into account I have done Kyokushin, MT AND TKD and that I have a 3rd BB in ITF TKD and I have no issues with the MARTIAL ART of TKD.
What exactly is your experience with it?

Sanjuro, RD's skull is incredibly thick, and concepts like the ones you're trying to get accross will just not be recieved.

[bodhitree]

Oh, and RD's taiji is the only real deadly combat tested art:rolleyes:

[sanjuro_ronin]

This was the type of TKD I was exposed to and you can still find if you like.
Minus the ground work of course.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAjtZ69e08Q

[Lucas]

while there may inherently be an "iffyness" to your standard TKD sport fighting in the readyness of their fighting postures, I have known a few TKD guys who understand that there is a difference between sport and real life.

A lot of these guys can spring backwards pretty darn quick and throw a rib crushing kick in the process.

If you take some TKD martial guys and check out the seriousness in which they do their forms, you can see that there is in deed some hand work in TKD. Its strewn all through out their forms.

From what Ive seen, the TKD forms are Primarily hands, at least at the beginning stages.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Great and how would any of those guys do in an olympic TKD match?

Reply]
Who cares, TKD can only win in a highly restrictive rule set. A better question is how would they do against me in an MMA ring? Not very I do say.

Context is everything.
But if you want NHB TKD, I can find it for you, but I asume you have found it and tested it, that is why you said what you said, right?

Reply]
Correct. I fought a lot of TKD guys when I was young. I even fought 3rd degree Black belts and beat them just as easily as the lower ranks. They have no real defenses outside thier limited paradime. They are only good at fighting each other.


Now, take into account I have done Kyokushin, MT AND TKD and that I have a 3rd BB in ITF TKD and I have no issues with the MARTIAL ART of TKD.
What exactly is your experience with it?

Reply]
I have easily beaten every one I have ever fought....with Chung Moo quan of all systems. If I could beat them then with a completely fraudulent cult system, I highly doubr now that I have 15-16 years of real Kung Fu, they would be any more trouble now, than thye were then.

The only TKD guy that ever beat me did some sort of real hard contact Judo/Karate, and he didn't even use his TKD. He beat me with his Karate.

[Lucas]

But again, back to the stealing of juicy chicken birds for the eating.

Im hungry

[sanjuro_ronin]

LOL
I think I am just overly sensitive about ragging on TKD today, must be all the snow.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

This was the type of TKD I was exposed to and you can still find if you like.
Minus the ground work of course.

Reply]
Just about all those TKD guys got taken down with a Judo throw in one move.That entire style can be defeted by one single move....my point proven.

[sanjuro_ronin]

This was the type of TKD I was exposed to and you can still find if you like.
Minus the ground work of course.

Reply]
Just about all those TKD guys got taken down with a Judo throw in one move.That entire style can be defeted by one single move....my point proven.

You have a point alright and most of us know what it is already.
:D

[the Preacher]

But again, back to the stealing of juicy chicken birds for the eating.

Im hungry


is that one of "Wang Xiangzhai" chickens?

:D

[IronWeasel]

I have easily beaten every one I have ever fought.....




Ahhh...my first sig line!

[Black Jack II]

It's the standard operating model for all big TKD schools. Many have as many as 350 students.

These TKD cats are raking in some TALL cash teaching their silly art.

Difference is, TCMA wishes it had the business model that TKD has.

I highly doubt the average TCMA could come close to the numbers you are spitting out. Take a look at any phone book and take a look at the arts that pop up.

An example, I was just in Ohio for a distributor meeting, I flip open the phonebook to see what kind of martial art base they have in the open, a habit whenever I travel, and out of 3 pages for this specific book, I count only two TCMA.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

There is no reason why a TCMA can't adopt the TKD business model and make just as much money.

The only thing holding them back is thier own mental blockages.

[Shaolindynasty]

live in the trees and eat stolen chicken i tell you. if the shaw brothers taught us anything, it is that this is the only real way to be traditional.


Thats funny as hell. That did seem to happen allot in those movies

[Lucas]

Thats funny as hell. That did seem to happen allot in those movies

isnt that how you started kungfu?

[Mas Judt]

Great and how would any of those guys do in an olympic TKD match?

My classmate Bobby-Joe wanted to go to the Olympics, so we strong-armed a TKD coach to give him a black belt. With no special training he went to the World Games and took a Silver medal. He ultimately broke a rib prior to going to Colorado Springs, so did not make the Olympic trials.

Overall, not bad having done 0 TKD and making no special effort AND fighting by those rules. (Although he had to knock out a lot of TKD guys cuz the Korean judges wouldn't recognize his points scored.)

So, while I know it is fashionable to DIS RD, he really has a point here. TKD has a bad record as self-defense.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

while I know it is fashionable to DIS RD

Reply]
Whoo Hoo!! I am fashionable!! :D

[cjurakpt]

My classmate Bobby-Joe wanted to go to the Olympics, so we strong-armed a TKD coach to give him a black belt. With no special training he went to the World Games and took a Silver medal. He ultimately broke a rib prior to going to Colorado Springs, so did not make the Olympic trials.

Overall, not bad having done 0 TKD and making no special effort AND fighting by those rules. (Although he had to knock out a lot of TKD guys cuz the Korean judges wouldn't recognize his points scored.)

So, while I know it is fashionable to DIS RD, he really has a point here. TKD has a bad record as self-defense.

sounds like a hoot - what was his full name, what year did he compete, which World Games? and what was his background / training if not TKD (and BTW, yeah, at those USTU events, if you weren't Korean and your opponent was, you could score all the points you wanted to, even pummel the guy nearly senseless, but if he's still standing at all at the end of the match, you were fer sher the looser, LOL)

[SifuAbel]

In reading these kinds of threads I am reminded of the vast difference between the employee mentality that most have v. the free market entrepreneurial mentality that a club owner MUST have.

The very notion of a salary is an employee's view on compensation. We are kind of geared toward thinking in this way to be slaves to a bracket. Its an expectation that MA is for poor people, so the instructor who makes money is somehow deficient. 30k a year is what I would expect if I were an employee, part time, in somebody else's club, in 1985.

Everybody needs to read Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert T. Kiyosaki
(http://www.amazon.com/Rich-Dad-Poor/dp/0751532711)

[Lucas]

I'm going to change my answer to two chickens. This is 2008 after all. There should be a larger abundance of chicken flesh to devour in todays realm.

[jigahus]

how the freak did this thread degenerate into a bash on TDK? That's what I'm thinking.

[IronWeasel]

how the freak did this thread degenerate into a bash on TDK? That's what I'm thinking.


Some days it's Wing Chun or Shaolin-Do...today it's TKD. Everyone get's a bashin'...

The Lama guys seem to have their very own personal hecklers, though...

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Ridiculous, isn't it?

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

More like Silly!

[lkfmdc]

The Lama guys seem to have their very own personal hecklers, though...

Nothing brings out hate and envy like success....

[the Preacher]

Fundamental of Math for lkfmdc

279000 (gross annual receipt) / 2160 (yearly student fee) = 129.16 (students)

how do you do your "successful" (culinary) math?
lkfmdc how many sq ft. is your school?










:D

[IronWeasel]

how do you do your "successful" (culinary) math?
lkfmdc how many sq ft. is your school?

:D



Lol!! Right on cue!

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Actually, I think it is a good question. How much Square footage is your school Ross? How many students do you have, and more importantly how much is the rent VS tuition?

As a successful school owner, I ma sure you understand how those of us Aspiring to follow in suite would find info like that useful in building our business plans.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

RD, check the other thread for my last post. Oh, the school that I'm talking about in the model is 2650 sq. ft.

[the Preacher]

RD, check the other thread for my last post. Oh, the school that I'm talking about in the model is 2650 sq. ft.


the model hahahahahahahahahaha:D


what about for "real" his and yours

only 8 questions

9th how many actual square ft




never a straight answer





:D

[lkfmdc]

Actually, I think it is a good question. How much Square footage is your school Ross? How many students do you have, and more importantly how much is the rent VS tuition?

As a successful school owner, I ma sure you understand how those of us Aspiring to follow in suite would find info like that useful in building our business plans.

Actually, if you have read previous posts, I've told you most of those things already. I have over 200 students. Like Mike, I really don't keep track. No need to! Other numbers are more important!

I offer 4 different programs (fitness, san da, jiu jitsu and complete), divided into either monthly or paid in full options. Those are sub divided (I offer monthly billing "open" and by term, I offer 3, 6 and year memberships).

If you REALLY are interested in running a school, make a small investment and join the network (www.sanda-mma.com). It costs you less than signing up two students. Then I'll share with you everything I know

[the Preacher]

Actually, if you have read previous posts, I've told you most of those things already. I have over 200 students. Like Mike, I really don't keep track. No need to! Other numbers are more important!

I offer 4 different programs (fitness, san da, jiu jitsu and complete), divided into either monthly or paid in full options. Those are sub divided (I offer monthly billing "open" and by term, I offer 3, 6 and year memberships).

If you REALLY are interested in running a school, make a small investment and join the network (www.sanda-mma.com). It costs you less than signing up two students. Then I'll share with you everything I know

wouldn't 200 students
@ $2160 = $432000

your numbers just don't add up
plus you said you did not do monthly
hahahahahahahahah

more BS

why ask a survey and not include your numbers

just like the report its all just spam



1. How many students does it have? 200?
2. How many are children? 0
3. Does it have a black belt club/master's club/leadership etc? NO
4. Does it have belt/sash/rank system? NO
5. Does it have a school uniform? NO
6. Do you pay one price for everything or do you have to "upgrade"? 1 Price
7. Does your school use a billing company? yes
8. Does your school use contracts? yes
9. how many sq ft. ??????


just more rhetoric
:D

[Lama Pai Sifu]

the Preacher = TOOL