Shou Shu

[Takuan]

Hey everybody, I was sitting in class, and long story short, a girl said in her introduction speech that she studied "Shou Shu" for three years. I thought she meant San Shou at first, but she didn't.

<sarcasm>
Then we had a kung fu staredown, and I propelled my qi through her. Unfortunately it was healing qi, so it didn't hurt her. (At least I'm pretty sure that's what happened because she didn't die.)
</sarcasm> :P

But anyway, I looked up the sites and read a bit on it. I just did a search on here and found a 7 year old thread, but decided to make a new thread. Anyone have any new information on it?


Shou Shu focuses on destroying your opponent. One of the most basic techniques involves knocking your opponent senseless, then breaking their ribs and arm.In order to become a real user, one must be able to access their inner "ki" power of the Chinese zodiac.

That's an excerpt from wikipedia, so I've been rofl'ing at that for a while, but you guys know how reliable wikipedia is (and custom sites by crazy masters), and I try to withhold judgment until I've talked to some people more experienced with some more knowledge than myself.

[lkfmdc]

This has the makings of a great flame war, but the truth be known, "Shou Shu" is made up, nothing in it's "history" checks out, not even it's name (which isn't Shanghai dialect by the way)

It has been slow here lately though, good job digging up something that might re-ignate the trolls

[Takuan]

This has the makings of a great flame war, but the truth be known, "Shou Shu" is made up, nothing in it's "history" checks out, not even it's name (which isn't Shanghai dialect by the way)

It has been slow here lately though, good job digging up something that might re-ignate the trolls

Yeah, the wiki says that "shou shu" means "fighting art of the beast" or "animal art". I was pretty sure 'xing' meant animal in Mandarin at least.

But I catch your drift.

If I wanted to dig up trolls I could have just said "Oh hi guys, is Shaolin Do for real? I heard Bruce Lee was the best martial artist ever, and America should invade Iran. Why don't you guys do MMA?"

*ducks* :P

[Lucas]

You should just get it over with and challenge her to a death match.

you know you want to.

[banditshaw]

I think and I might be mistaken, but I heard Shou Shu might have some american kempo roots.

[Three Harmonies]

Honestly, you guys use Wikipedia as a source and/or reference??????? :eek:

[Lucas]

Honestly, you guys use Wikipedia as a source and/or reference??????? :eek:

It CAN be used.

Look at the bottom of any Wiki article. There are references listed, from that point, if you find the article sufficient with other research you have done, you can follow up on the references listed on the wiki article.....

For instance;

a wiki piece on Abraham Lincoln. Check the references, then show me the (if any) true inconsistancies with historical fact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_lincoln

yet i digress....i probably wouldnt use WIKI for some skeezy shista like Shou Shu (as far as solid facts). BUT it can still be the stepping stone to other resources and material regarding the subject.

[htowndragon]

shou shu in mandarin dialect means surgery

[lkfmdc]

shou shu in mandarin dialect means surgery

correct.... but remember, while Shanghai residents most definitely learn to speak Mandarin as part of school, they also have Shanghai dialect, and it is spoken widely. The idea that "triads gangs on the docks in the 1910's" used Mandarin widely is suspect at best.... the fact that the so called "masters" of this system didn't know there was a distinct Shanghai dialect also raises eyebrows (or SHOULD!)

[Lucas]

around this place....my eyebrows are always raised.

[CFT]

Plenty of Shou Shu myth debunking here: http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55610

Or just go straight to http://shoushuhistory.myblogvoice.com/

[Errant108]

There are megathreads on Bullshido devoted to these guys.

[bodhitree]

There are mega threads here about shou shu that occasionally shoushu'ers ttt for some dam reason.

[Takuan]

Honestly, you guys use Wikipedia as a source and/or reference??????? :eek:


response:

but you guys know how reliable wikipedia is (and custom sites by crazy masters), and I try to withhold judgment until I've talked to some people more experienced with some more knowledge than myself.

The article at the top says "This article isn't very good" hence why I made the thread.

I'll be sure to challenge this chick's martial honor. "My Tai Chi is far less made up than your system, and in turn is more efficient. You can tell by my silk uniform! *qi blasts*"

[Su Lin]

Plenty of Shou Shu myth debunking here: http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55610

Or just go straight to http://shoushuhistory.myblogvoice.com/

LOl I was going to point the op there :D The ever present Mr Lee Waters! :p

[CFT]

LOl I was going to point the op there :D The ever present Mr Lee Waters! :pHe (might even be a she!) has done a good job finding first eye witnesses to the Moore's training in American kempo. I always thought their back story was dodgy.

[L.Waters]

Male, and old thank you.

Shou Shu in a nut shell.

Al and family trained under, Al Tracy, Richard Lee, Bob Blackmoore, Steve Labounty. I confirmed all but Mr. Blackmoore. And when asked about prior martial arts training before Kenpo, or training in China, all had the same respectful answer, Not to my knowledge!

Systems, Tracy's Kenpo, Richard Lee's Bok Fu do, and Ed Parkers American Kenpo.

Richard lee was one of only three Tracy Kenpo 10 degree black Belts

http://www.bokfudo.com/HallOfFame1960s.aspx

http://www.bokfudo.com/HallOfFame1970s.aspx

http://www.network54.com/Forum/326583/thread/1102959584/Has+anyone+heard+of+Al+Moore

http://silvertigerkungfu.com/SilverTigerKung-Fu-Founder_Information.html

The ever present
L.W.

[Su Lin]

Woooooah that was freaky :D Are you omnipotent Lee? Good job I didn't say anything horrible!;):p

[Eddie]

Then we had a kung fu staredown, and I propelled my qi through her.

was she atleast cute? The girl I mean?

nothing worst than propelling your qi through an ugly girl. ;)

[bodhitree]

was she atleast cute? The girl I mean?

nothing worst than propelling your qi through an ugly girl. ;)


with a paper bag it doesn't really matter! i would avoid using plastic bags though

[L.Waters]

Shou shu history, By Sheng Chi Kung Fu

http://www.allstars.net.au/history.html

Please reply with opinions.

L.W.

[B-Rad]

Pretty silly. Sounds like something made up in a junior high creative writing class ;-)

BTW, anyone else think this guy looks a bit creepy?
http://www.allstars.net.au/photos/misc/Raphael.jpg

[L.Waters]

In Al Moore's own words. (1976 interview) Date known from checking contractor lic. board on ad for Don Bricker Genral Contractor. Lic #313006 on Page six of interview. Notice he never speaks of his history with Richard Lee, Al Tracy or Mr Parker and their systems in the interview.

http://homepage.mac.com/tony_baltera/shou_shu/Interview.pdf

Started martial arts at the age of thirteen, (1939) Born 2/28/26 Fresno County, Kung Fu master in China after World War Two, (1944) so we will give him to 1950 with The Chinese Revolution and all. 1950 Mr Moore would have been twenty four years of age when he claims to have become a Kung Fu master. A total of eleven years of training. 1939 to 1950.

Wonder why he never spoke of these grand adventures with the men he studied Kenpo with in the late 1960's.

Guess he saved the stories for his students.

List of Bok Fu Do Techniques found in Shou Shu!
http://www.kokarate.com/TechniquesC.html#top

L.W.

[L.Waters]

U.S.A. Martial Arts Hall of Fame.

Vance Cody- http://www.redlandsdailyfacts.com/ci_8109617

Ted Guerrero- http://www.kingmandailyminer.com/main.asp?Search=1&ArticleID=12832&SectionID=3&SubSectionID=3&S=1 ( Newspaper The Kingman - Daily Miner )

I can't find them listed, is this for real or just a BS site where you send in your money and get your name on a list, and if it is BS what kind of reporters are Rob Weiler of the Kingman Daily Miner and
Vanessa D. Overbeck of the Redlands Daily Facts. Did they research the history of Shou Shu. People wonder why people get upset with the press.

Wonder who voted these men in? If anyone knows please post.

L.W.

[L.Waters]

Hat off to Mr Guerrero.

http://www.scfudji.de/eng.site/ShouShu01.html


Time frame a little off, Mr Lee started teaching Bok Fu in 1967 so the techniques of Bok Fu found in Shou Shu came after Al Jr's completion of Bok Fu in the 1970's. Shou Shu came to be in the early to mid 70's. Unless Al and Ralph just copied the systems and techinques they had trained in.

The Tracy brothers opened a second school, in Sacramento, in 1962, and a third, in San Jose, in 1963

Time Frame,four to five years Min for black belt, would put Al Tracy's first Black Belt's at around 1966 or 67. So first degree black belt for Al Moore would be around this time.

Mr Labounty Quote. All of this was in the late 60's. Big Al and Ralph decided to go their own way and get into the Shou Shu material.


Point of view, Truth being Mr Moore lied to newspapers, students and made liers and fools of many, and lived this lie to the end. Really a pretty sad story.

Now we will see the Shou Shu instructors who sticks with the lie, or sets the story stright with their students!

L.w.

[golden arhat]

shou shu in mandarin dialect means surgery

that is easily the best name for an art

sugery
kinda says

i'm going to take you a part

make you bleed

swap your organs around

take your heart out

possibly kill you

knock you out

use knives on you

etc


all in one word

surgery

best name ever

[L.Waters]

Out of the mouth of babe's.

L.W.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=27292065

[L.Waters]

MOORE'S OF SACRAMENTO IS NOW
THE KARATE ROOM!



http://www.mooresofsacramento.com/

[B-Rad]

lol, that's terrible :D

[B-Rad]

Yes, it's a word used to refer to medical surgery.

[HSCLFCPA]

Male, and old thank you.

Shou Shu in a nut shell.

Al and family trained under, Al Tracy, Richard Lee, Bob Blackmoore, Steve Labounty. I confirmed all but Mr. Blackmoore. And when asked about prior martial arts training before Kenpo, or training in China, all had the same respectful answer, Not to my knowledge!

Systems, Tracy's Kenpo, Richard Lee's Bok Fu do, and Ed Parkers American Kenpo.

Richard lee was one of only three Tracy Kenpo 10 degree black Belts

http://www.bokfudo.com/HallOfFame1960s.aspx

http://www.bokfudo.com/HallOfFame1970s.aspx

http://www.network54.com/Forum/326583/thread/1102959584/Has+anyone+heard+of+Al+Moore

http://silvertigerkungfu.com/SilverTigerKung-Fu-Founder_Information.html

The ever present
L.W.


Is Bok Fu Do really a Chinese system of martial arts? In GM Richard Lee's website, it states that Bok Fu Do was developed and founded by Richard Lee, who is not Chinese. The website states that Bok Fu Do is a Chinese Martial Arts and is a Chinese system that can be traced back many years. Bok Fu in Chinese means "white tiger". I am not sure what "Do" means. Or is Bok Fu Do more like Kenpo? Not to discredit them, they are members of the Kuoshu Federation and have been successful in competitions.

Then the question is: what is the definition of Chinese Martial Arts. Does it have to be developed by a Chinese in China? Clearly, Wing Chung, White Crane, Choy Lay Fut, Hung Gar, Eagle Claw, Tiger-Crane, Shaolin Style, etc., and many I have not mentioned were developed by Chinese in China and are considered authentic Chinese Martial Arts.

[L.Waters]

Richard Lee.

In 1994, when I became a Grandmaster it was suggested by Grandmaster Al Tracy, General Wu, Hung-chang (International Chinese Kuoshu Federation Vice President), and Grandmaster Huang, Chien-liang that I formalize my style of Bok-Fu by adding the “Do” (meaning way or system) to the end of Bok-Fu. They explained that the success of my Bok-Fu students in national and international competition warranted that the style – my life’s work - become a system. It had long been recognized and respected outside the United States and was distinguished by producing some of the highest quality martial artists, each of whom were tested in the fires of international competition against various countries from around the world. Bok-Fu-Do then officially became an internationally recognized system of Chinese martial arts founded and developed in the west.
In 2001 at the Gathering of Eagles in Las Vegas, Nevada, I received the Senior Master's Gold Ring, one of only six such rings ever presented. Some other fellow ring recipients included Great Grandmaster Al Novak, Great Grandmaster Ralph Castro, Grandmaster Al Dacascos and Grandmaster Larry Tatum. During my Gold Ring acceptance speech I made it clear that it was always out of respect and pride from my Chinese Kenpo roots that the Tracy/Parker system was the base of what I used in taking on the world in not only the 1st ever World Kuoshu (Kung-Fu) tournament but in all other World Tournaments and major International events. I further spoke about the fact that if it were not for Grandmaster Al Tracy I probably would have never gone proffesional and that I have always thought of my life's work as the international branch of Tracy/Parker Kenpo. I stand by those statements and will forever be grateful for Grandmaster Tracy's guidance

http://www.bokfudo.com/BokFuDoHistory.aspx