new to the board

[teetsao]

hello, i am new to the board and wanted to introduve myself. i study kung fu,kali and muay thai. i do not post much but try to learn from others posts.my main feild of study is iron skills.i hope to learn alot from you guys,and be able to contribute something worthwhile to the forum.
i am the one with hair.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSYuOr_zfYw


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqD0IecjOjk&feature=related

[SifuAbel]

Welcome to the most fruitless endeavor in martial arts, the message board. :D

Take everything with a grain of salt. You are GUARANTEED to find somebody here you will find to be a total dweeb, punk, idiot, or tool. Any of those in my sig are perfect examples.

There are some Lotus' in the mud, just dig deep.

enjoy......

[jow yeroc]

Welcome to the forum. I liked your vids, thanks for posting.

[Takuan]

Take everything with a grain of salt. You are GUARANTEED to find somebody here you will find to be a total dweeb, punk, idiot, or tool.

MMA RULLEEEEZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Oh wait, what? :P

Welcome OP! :D

[jow yeroc]

Oh and also i believe there is another member with the same name but spells
it different. tiet sau or sow maybe?

[1bad65]

Rudy Abel and his followers are mentally unstable, lying, pieces of garbage that always find a way to never back up their threats and tough talk.

Oh, here is Sifu Rudy Abel in action. Watch him tap out in 1:22 and be so gassed out he can't even stand up!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHkxF7658pM

[1bad65]

my main feild of study is iron skills.

By iron skills do you mean like 'iron palm'?

[MasterKiller]

By iron skills do you mean like 'iron palm'?

Iron skills refers to any conditioning to make the body harder or tougher. Dropping a medicine ball into your stomach, for example.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Don't forget Iron Crotch :D

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Rudy Abel and his followers are mentally unstable, lying, pieces of garbage that always find a way to never back up their threats and tough talk.

Oh, here is Sifu Rudy Abel in action. Watch him tap out in 1:22 and be so gassed out he can't even stand up!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHkxF7658pM

Hey..enough is enough already. I can appreciate that you have a beef with Rudy. WE ALL KNOW IT. But it is unfair to hijack all these threads just to repeat the same things you've said already, don'tcha think?

Have your "I hate Rudy" thread and post on it all day. You guys can dig at each other on it until the second coming. But please, please let it go on the regular threads, okay?

BTW, I am not taking anyone's side here. But I must say this - you ragged on Rudy in anticipation about his not showing up for the fight. Then he showed. He gets mad props in my book for taking the challenge and showing up. Okay, he didn't win....we all lose fights. But for heaven's sake man, let it go! He showed up, he fought and it didnt' go his way. I'm sure he'll take what he can from it and become a better fighter in the future.

You don't like Rudy's mouth...so be it. I don't like what everyone says here, and I'm sure they don't like everything I say/said here either. But it comes to a point where you just have to let it go. Believe me..whatever point you have been trying to communicate to the board, we have heard you. Be a stand up guy and let it go.

Just some man-to-man advice, do what you will with it. But in the interest of better conversations on here, please rethink this. :)

Peace

And now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

[1bad65]

Iron skills refers to any conditioning to make the body harder or tougher. Dropping a medicine ball into your stomach, for example.

There is a good thread at Bullshido about 'jow' and a guy testing it (not a true scientific test IMO) to see if it indeed toughens his hands.

[MasterKiller]

There is a good thread at Bullshido about 'jow' and a guy testing it (not a true scientific test IMO) to see if it indeed toughens his hands.

Most Jow is basically Chinese "Ben Gay."

[1bad65]

Lama, like I have said repeatedly; I'm not gonna start sh1t, but I will respond to Rudy and his ilk messing with me.

HE STARTED IT, AGAIN

If it gets on your nerves, go to the source and stop it. And as anyone with eyes and basic reading comprehension skills can see, he ONCE AGAIN started in on me.

[1bad65]

Most Jow is basically Chinese "Ben Gay."

That's about what I believe. That and placebo effecs.

But the thread at BS is interesting.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

You are right. I reread his post. I see your point.

Hey Rudy, please read my above message. I'm sure you're ****ed, but please try to man-up and be done with it. It no longer serves any purpose.

Peace.

[sanjuro_ronin]

That's about what I believe. That and placebo effecs.

But the thread at BS is interesting.

There is Jow and then there is Jow.
Sad but true.
And the IP stuff is not typical Jow.
Then there is different types of IP jow depending on what stage you are at.

[1bad65]

The jow being discussed on BS is Dale Dugas' stuff.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

There is a good thread at Bullshido about 'jow' and a guy testing it (not a true scientific test IMO) to see if it indeed toughens his hands.

Reply]
U got a link?

[sanjuro_ronin]

The jow being discussed on BS is Dale Dugas' stuff.

Which one?
I use his IP stuff and it is Top Notch.
Have used it for 2 years now.

[1bad65]

Here is the BS thread on the test:

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=64970

[sanjuro_ronin]

There are a couple on truthmartialarts.org too, one of them mine.

Not sure what your point is.

[SifuAbel]

You are right. I reread his post. I see your point.

Hey Rudy, please read my above message. I'm sure you're ****ed, but please try to man-up and be done with it. It no longer serves any purpose.

Peace.

"Their obsession with me is well beyond creepy and border lining on the psychotic."

Nuff said.

[Takuan]

HE STARTED IT, AGAIN


Alright, one of you, either one, needs to grow up. I used to frequent these boards, but the Rudy/Abel bull**** was so prevalent that EVERY discussion turned to a flame war between you two. Now I came back for two days, and it took 4 threads for it to come back. How long ago was your guys' squabble? Moving on...

But anyway, OP. In Iron training, from a scientific standpoint, you're basically hitting the muscle fibers/bone fibers and letting them recover from the bruises, right?

I thought I knew about how it worked until I started taking exercise science classes, and most impacts on muscle that end up hurting like iron training are bruises. Does the fiber just built up thicker epimysius? (not sure if that's the right term, but I mean the skin covering the muscle fiber bundles) And in the case of the bone, why does the bone recover and become thicker?

Bone tissue becomes stronger with weight training, and I assume that a stressure force (i.e. the stress on the metacarpals when punching a block, or the stress on the forearm bones when punching a block) would be the same principle as weight training stresses. But why would shearing forces across the bone have the same effect? (i.e. when you would do a five star forearm hit deally, technical term, I know)

Thanks for any upcoming info! :P

Edit: by "bruises" in the first paragraph, I mean small, minor bruises. Most injuries resulting from physical activity are strains, sprains, or bruises. (broken bones, dislocations, concussions, etc. are considered more serious, and I hope to god no one trains iron skills by dislocating limbs or getting concussions)

[sanjuro_ronin]

Alright, one of you, either one, needs to grow up. I used to frequent these boards, but the Rudy/Abel bull**** was so prevalent that EVERY discussion turned to a flame war between you two. Now I came back for two days, and it took 4 threads for it to come back. How long ago was your guys' squabble? Moving on...

But anyway, OP. In Iron training, from a scientific standpoint, you're basically hitting the muscle fibers/bone fibers and letting them recover from the bruises, right?

I thought I knew about how it worked until I started taking exercise science classes, and most impacts on muscle that end up hurting like iron training are bruises. Does the fiber just built up thicker epimysius? (not sure if that's the right term, but I mean the skin covering the muscle fiber bundles) And in the case of the bone, why does the bone recover and become thicker?

Bone tissue becomes stronger with weight training, and I assume that a stressure force (i.e. the stress on the metacarpals when punching a block, or the stress on the forearm bones when punching a block) would be the same principle as weight training stresses. But why would shearing forces across the bone have the same effect? (i.e. when you would do a five star forearm hit deally, technical term, I know)

Thanks for any upcoming info! :P

One of the best analogies was that of a bare foot distance runner VS one with running shoes.
The bones in the feet of the bare footed one would get denser quicker than those of the one with running shoes, perhaps even denser to a degree that the shoed runner will never get.

[SifuAbel]

Although the bones do get stronger as a result of IP. The biggest factor is the increase in the hand's muscle mass. IP training is about irritation. Trying to deliver more blood to the tissues of the hand. LOL@ the douches on BS trying to authoritatively do it "their way".

Irronically, this thread is following exactly on par with what this board is like. IP isn't really on topic to the thread. But because of its connection with the main poster you get the goobers to bring up the controversy.

My having a string of stalkers IS on topic for this thread. :rolleyes: Welcome to the board.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

As the most Adaptable animal on the planet, we respond to stresses by becoming stronger than the stress (son long as it's not great enough to break us). If we stress the muscles, they get stronger, if the stress the bones, they get stronger.

Although bones do get stronger through weight lifting, they seem to respond better to impact training (Muay Thai shins or Chinese Iron Hand for example). The Jow just speeds the process, and allows the process to be taken to a greater extent than without, that is all. In part, it's just a steroid for bones, only without negative side effects.

It's so simple everyone is missing it.

[sanjuro_ronin]

As the most Adaptable animal on the planet, we respond to stresses by becoming stronger than the stress (son long as it's not great enough to break us). If we stress the muscles, they get stronger, if the stress the bones, they get stronger.

Although bones do get stronger through weight lifting, they seem to respond better to impact training (Muay Thai shins or Chinese Iron Hand for example). The Jow just speeds the process, and allows the process to be taken to a greater extent than without, that is all. In part, it's just a steroid for bones, only without negative side effects.

It's so simple everyone is missing it.

Dude, its TCMA, over complication is gung all its own !

[Takuan]

IP isn't really on topic to the thread.
My having a string of stalkers IS on topic for this thread. :rolleyes: Welcome to the board.


my main feild of study is iron skills


lol wut?

I'm almost certain that the thread title was related to "Hi my name is ____, I do ____ and am proficient in knowledge of ______" not "Flame war of 2006-2008" :P

But I gotcha about the hand muscles, but my question was more related to the scientific aspect of the muscle fiber durability increase.

Just because your hand has more muscle mass doesn't mean that it's tougher.

My options I'm thinking about are:

1. Thicker fiber covers due to repeated bruising.
or
2. Nerve dulling.

or both.

[SifuAbel]

More like the resistance of larger muscle tissue to the surrounding myofacial sheathing.

Their shouldn't be any real prolonged bruising or hematoma. Thats what the jow, massage and boiling/heating/jacuzzi of the hand is trying to avoid.

And no, the thread topic is "I'm new to the board, what can I expect, what I hope find. "

[Takuan]

As the most Adaptable animal on the planet, we respond to stresses by becoming stronger than the stress (son long as it's not great enough to break us). If we stress the muscles, they get stronger, if the stress the bones, they get stronger.

Although bones do get stronger through weight lifting, they seem to respond better to impact training (Muay Thai shins or Chinese Iron Hand for example). The Jow just speeds the process, and allows the process to be taken to a greater extent than without, that is all. In part, it's just a steroid for bones, only without negative side effects.

It's so simple everyone is missing it.

My beef is with the term "gets stronger." I don't understand why it gets stronger. I know that after you enough blocks that your knuckles don't hurt as bad. My question is more on a physiological examination level.

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/images/articles/musclefiber.jpg

in that picture, you have the muscles covered by the fascia, epimysium, paramysium, fasciculus, and endomysium.

But saying "It's simple" isn't exactly right. That's like saying "lift weights. your muscles get bigger and stronger, it's simple!" :P

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I don't think anyone has figured out the mechanizum that explains growth related to stress yet..on any level, let alone bone density.

[Takuan]

More like the resistance of larger muscle tissue to the surrounding myofacial sheathing.

Their shouldn't be any real prolonged bruising or hematoma. Thats what the jow, massage and boiling/heating/jacuzzi of the hand is trying to avoid.

right! ok. That makes sense. So the covering sheath of the muscle gets bruised, and heals up a little bit thicker each time. And yeah, the bruising would last long. It'd be classified as a 1st degree or grade 1 contusion. (microscopic damage/swelling, barely sore, etc.) Which is where lots of people go wrong with this type of training, going in and going crazy and bruising up really bad.

And yeah, the treatment post training is exactly right. After you train, ice for a while, then massage and heat, etc.

Actually, thinking about it right now, deep tissue massage causes microfibral abrasion on the fascia and other covers, which would loosen up the surface of them, allowing them to build up thicker, as well. Right?

[SifuAbel]

Its simple , really, In practice. Finding the science behind it won't find you any short cuts. Which is the main reason people strive to dissect it so much. The "get away with it" mentality is so American.

Like the douches on BS trying to do it without all that it entails thinking that all old practices are just there for show or for superstition.

[Takuan]

I don't think anyone has figured out the mechanizum that explains growth related to stress yet..on any level, let alone bone density.

Muscle hypertrophy is related to enzyme depletion in the muscle fiber, and then it refuels and crams more in the fiber. (Just learned that today :D)

Bone density is affected by osteoclasts/osteoblasts, which are regulated by hormones, and training with stresses on bone increase the density of the lattice pattern in bones, but you're right, I'm not sure WHY the hell the body can tell when to increase bone density. It's not like testosterone and osteoblasts have a 100% correlation, if they did, then the more test you have have, the denser your bones would be. But then again maybe that is part of it, the more volume of weight training you do, the more test is released into the blood stream.

I'm gonna have to talk to my professors about that one.

Dangit RD, you're making me use my brain :(

[sanjuro_ronin]

Dude, its TCMA, over complication is gung all its own !

Obviously this needs to be repeated.:p

[1bad65]

I don't think anyone has figured out the mechanizum that explains growth related to stress yet..on any level, let alone bone density.

That's what one guy who believes in this is basically saying on BS. He can't explain it, but he says it works. :rolleyes:

I will say that Dale's system requires more then just the jow and striking. He told the tester to not drink alcohol, not eat fried foods, no cold drinks after a workout, and to abstain from sex.

[Takuan]

Its simple , really, In practice. Finding the science behind it won't find you any short cuts. Which is the main reason people strive to dissect it so much. The "get away with it" mentality is so American.

Like the douches on BS trying to do it without all that it entails thinking that all old practices are just there for show or for superstition.

Finding the science behind it helps you understand it. You can't understand it unless you know WHY it's happening. And I don't think that's the American mentality at all. I think it's the American mentality to say "I don't care how it works, as long as it works."

Perfect example: cars. Most people don't know the difference between brake fluid and gasoline. But they know how to operate cars, and use them every day. I don't like not knowing how things work.

Edit: But I see what you mean. The REAL way to go about the shortcutting, isn't really shortcutting. Just like cheat reps in the gym, they should never make the set easier, they should make it harder. If you found a way to "shortcut" to results, there's a way to work harder to obtain better results. I'm not sure if my idea coagulated properly, but... ya feelin' me? :P

And as to the shortcut business, that's the scientific method! You take something, find out why it works, apply a tweak, confirm scientific data, improve upon it, repeat. Not understanding how it works is foolish.

[1bad65]

And as to the shortcut business, that's the scientific method! You take something, find out why it works, apply a tweak, confirm scientific data, improve upon it, repeat. Not understanding how it works is foolish.

This makes alot of sense. Good post.

[sanjuro_ronin]

That's what one guy who believes in this is basically saying on BS. He can't explain it, but he says it works. :rolleyes:

I will say that Dale's system requires more then just the jow and striking. He told the tester to not drink alcohol, not eat fried foods, no cold drinks after a workout, and to abstain from sex.

That is part of the TCMA chi portion of IP.
Wither you believe in cho or not is up to you, but since it really is no big deal to do what he said I don't see a problem in doing it, it certainly doens't hurt and who knows, it might actually help.
If it doesn't, no harm done.

[1bad65]

That is part of the TCMA chi portion of IP.
Wither you believe in cho or not is up to you, but since it really is no big deal to do what he said I don't see a problem in doing it, it certainly doens't hurt and who knows, it might actually help.
If it doesn't, no harm done.

Well first off I think chi is bunk, so if something is supposed to work and chi is a factor I tend to look at it very sceptically.

Second, Dale's way introduces alot of variables. Anyone with a scientific background will tell you that the more variables there are, the harder it is to test.

No big deal being celibate! :eek: And no cold drinks after a workout seems ridiculous as well.

[bodhitree]

As the most Adaptable animal on the planet, we respond to stresses by becoming stronger than the stress (son long as it's not great enough to break us). If we stress the muscles, they get stronger, if the stress the bones, they get stronger.

Although bones do get stronger through weight lifting, they seem to respond better to impact training (Muay Thai shins or Chinese Iron Hand for example). The Jow just speeds the process, and allows the process to be taken to a greater extent than without, that is all. In part, it's just a steroid for bones, only without negative side effects.

It's so simple everyone is missing it.


Every PROFESSIONAL Muay Thai fighter I know does not do anything to specifically condition their shins, exeption being kicking the heavy bag/pads. The master of the group (sit dragon muay thai (www.pittsburghmuaythai.com)) is from Thailand. I don't remember where I read it, but I've heard of really bad shinsplints and hairline fractures from "conditioning" the shins.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Well first off I think chi is bunk, so if something is supposed to work and chi is a factor I tend to look at it very sceptically.

Second, Dale's way introduces alot of variables. Anyone with a scientific background will tell you that the more variables there are, the harder it is to test.

No big deal being celibate! :eek: And no cold drinks after a workout seems ridiculous as well.

LOL !
Not celibate, you can have sex just don't ejaculate.
:D
Who drinks cold drinks after a workout when room temp is better?
:p

Nit picking bro, that is what you are doing.

[sanjuro_ronin]

RE the thread on BS.
Talk about being behind the ball,

I did a thread on TMA years ago and it was much better.
I had my hand X-ray before AND After ( 6 months after or something like that), I had the levels of lead tested before I started and just again last year ( no changes).
I got my strikes measured at York Univeristy to see if there would be any change in impact force.

What has BS done?

[Takuan]

And no cold drinks after a workout seems ridiculous as well.

I'm not sure about water and cellular absorbtion, but I know creatine is most stably absorbed into muscle fibers at room temperature. So it would make sense that water would be more easily absorbed into muscles at room temperature.

But I'm not sure about that. :D

[sanjuro_ronin]

hello, i am new to the board and wanted to introduve myself. i study kung fu,kali and muay thai. i do not post much but try to learn from others posts.my main feild of study is iron skills.i hope to learn alot from you guys,and be able to contribute something worthwhile to the forum.
i am the one with hair.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSYuOr_zfYw


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqD0IecjOjk&feature=related

Look what you started !
;)

[Tiet Sow]

The new guy stole my name!!!!----I

[1bad65]

LOL !
Not celibate, you can have sex just don't ejaculate.
:D
Who drinks cold drinks after a workout when room temp is better?
:p

Nit picking bro, that is what you are doing.


No I'm not.

Everyone at my gym drinks cold drinks. We even keep a supply in a fridge at the gym.

Just don't ejaculate! :eek: Now whose nitpicking? Speaking of, since ejaculation is a factor, what are the recommendations/rules for women?

[1bad65]

Not celibate, you can have sex just don't ejaculate.

So I guess that Iron Palm=Blue Balls ;)

[sanjuro_ronin]

No I'm not.

Everyone at my gym drinks cold drinks. We even keep a supply in a fridge at the gym.

Just don't ejaculate! :eek: Now whose nitpicking? Speaking of, since ejaculation is a factor, what are the recommendations/rules for women?

Really? I can't stand cold drinks as it is, well, except for a cold beer, ice cold beer....now there is a chi builder !

Women don't "ejaculate their chi".
:eek:

Ah dude, every CMA has some sort of chi stuff in it, why get so hung up on it?
Do it or don't, your choice, its no biggie.

[sanjuro_ronin]

So I guess that Iron Palm=Blue Balls ;)

Blue balls that progress to IRON CROTCH !!!

[1bad65]

Women don't "ejaculate their chi".
:eek:

And men do?!

Are you really typing this with a straight face? You can't really believe this claptrap can you?

[SifuAbel]

why get so hung up on it?

LOL, you're not seriously asking this?!?!?!?!? LMAO!!!!

Look at his sig and title.

So what DO you like about kung fu, Mike.

[sanjuro_ronin]

And men do?!

Are you really typing this with a straight face? You can't really believe this claptrap can you?

LMAO !!
To be truthful, my views on chi are not typical of TCMA, so no, I don't "buy into that".
Do I still do the chi building exercises complete with visualizations?
Yes.
Why?
Doesn't hurt and might even help, heck if 20 years from now they discover that TCM is right, well at least I can say BLAH !! Told you so !

LOL

It takes up about 5 minutes of your time before IP and a couple after, it gets you in the mood for IP training and relaxes you after it, not such a bad thing to do.

As for the semen retention, that lasted a month !

A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do !
:D

[1bad65]

I liked watching you embarrass yourself. :D That's for sure.

I tend to hang in the MMA forum, but this topic interests me.

Notice I don't offer KF advice moron. Just as you should not offer cardio advice. :D

[Dale Dugas]

And men do?!

Are you really typing this with a straight face? You can't really believe this claptrap can you?


Men die long before women when you look at the general population women live longer in most of the nations around the planet.

The BS thread was started as a response to see if the person in question was a mouthboxer or not. He seems to have started the training and that should be respected.

All these others have come on and said this and that but rather than try the training to see if they can develop more power they titter and make jokes.

Fine.

Talking gets you only so far. You can come visit me and spar with me with some headgear on and I will slap you around up there and then you can say without a doubt that IP helps train you better to hit people.

Oh and Ron, good to see you on the board brother.

[1bad65]

As for the semen retention, that lasted a month !

A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do !
:D

That's kinda my point. Despite the fact you do not follow the directions/rules 100%, you still believe in your results. I'm not saying the striking won't toughen your hands. It may well. I'm just saying the no ejaculation, cold drinks, fried foods, chi, etc have no effect on whether your hands toughen up.

But how would a woman 'get rid of' her chi? ;)

[diego]

LMAO !!
To be truthful, my views on chi are not typical of TCMA, so no, I don't "buy into that".
Do I still do the chi building exercises complete with visualizations?
Yes.
Why?
Doesn't hurt and might even help, heck if 20 years from now they discover that TCM is right, well at least I can say BLAH !! Told you so !

LOL

It takes up about 5 minutes of your time before IP and a couple after, it gets you in the mood for IP training and relaxes you after it, not such a bad thing to do.

As for the semen retention, that lasted a month !

A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do !
:D


stand up cross your legs squeeze your inner thighs into each other inhale and pull ya army back into your dan tien...you'll be ready for war in two minutes...

[teetsao]

well,well,well, what have i learned so far?? 1bad65 doesn't like sifu rudy abel, and the guys over at b.s. know absolutely nothing about true iron palm. i will not get into everything,but in a nutshell.... i use dale dugas i.p.dit da jow,he and i are friends and he instructs me on a regular basis.iron palm is the strengthening of the whole hand from the inside out,but most importantly it is conditioning the chi.yes chi exisits,but i hope if oyu are on a kung fu site you know and believe this already. the jow is for real. it helps heal the hands but it also "draws" the chi through the gates of the arm.qigong is one of the most improtant aspects of the training.no sex,alcohol or fried foods is part of it but any true athlete knows this already. drinking cold drinks weakens your body. there is more but i will not divuldge any more. anybody who does not believe in the efficacy of dit da jow, just slam your hand into a bag of steel shot 100 times a day without jow and we will see how long you last. i don't think anyone on this board said anything about jow not being real i am just harboring thoughts from b.s.
dale dugas produces the best jow on the market today. it will really help with all aspects of training and conditioning, iron palm,3 star,roller bar,grab/claw bag. i iam sorry i did not come on here to defend i.p. training or jow just got carried away. i hope 1bad65 and sifu abel can work things out. we are all kung fu bros. we need to stand together,we can all learn from one another, that is why i am here. there may come a day when you 2 need each other for something. i hope to make friends on this board. i may need one of you guys help one day.

[diego]

That's what one guy who believes in this is basically saying on BS. He can't explain it, but he says it works. :rolleyes:

I will say that Dale's system requires more then just the jow and striking. He told the tester to not drink alcohol, not eat fried foods, no cold drinks after a workout, and to abstain from sex.

alchohol and fried foods make you a lazy spaz...cold drinks shock your mind and body...cold water on a hot plate...sex makes you docile...they just telling you to put 100 % focus into the training...it's only a 100 day training program right...not so unrealistic. boxers do this for the title fight if they're smart.

[sanjuro_ronin]

That's kinda my point. Despite the fact you do not follow the directions/rules 100%, you still believe in your results. I'm not saying the striking won't toughen your hands. It may well. I'm just saying the no ejaculation, cold drinks, fried foods, chi, etc have no effect on whether your hands toughen up.

But how would a woman 'get rid of' her chi? ;)

The analogy that I made about bare footed runner seems to be ignored.
*****es.

Its not about get "tough hands".
In regards to the other stuff, I did it simply because that was the routine given to me.
I am a married man, I keep holding back and the wife may get ideas and think that 45 min to an hour session are the way to go !
Don't want that to happen !!
:p

[diego]

As the most Adaptable animal on the planet, we respond to stresses by becoming stronger than the stress (son long as it's not great enough to break us). If we stress the muscles, they get stronger, if the stress the bones, they get stronger.

Although bones do get stronger through weight lifting, they seem to respond better to impact training (Muay Thai shins or Chinese Iron Hand for example). The Jow just speeds the process, and allows the process to be taken to a greater extent than without, that is all. In part, it's just a steroid for bones, only without negative side effects.

It's so simple everyone is missing it.

steroid for bones...the warming of the tissue from the liquid aids the hulking process or there is actual elements in the liquid that seep into the pores?.

[diego]

hello, i am new to the board and wanted to introduve myself. i study kung fu,kali and muay thai. i do not post much but try to learn from others posts.my main feild of study is iron skills.i hope to learn alot from you guys,and be able to contribute something worthwhile to the forum.
i am the one with hair.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSYuOr_zfYw


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqD0IecjOjk&feature=related
Oh Ya before I forget. Welcome to the forum:)

[1bad65]

Men die long before women when you look at the general population women live longer in most of the nations around the planet.

Do you know why men die before women? Because they want to! :D Al Bundy rules.

But I seriously doubt that it's due to ejaculation. There are many other factors/variables involved. Just like in this test the BS guy is doing.



Talking gets you only so far. You can come visit me and spar with me with some headgear on and I will slap you around up there and then you can say without a doubt that IP helps train you better to hit people.

Are you guys all the same!?!? Jesus Christ!

It will not help you better hit hit anyone. Sparring will. But it MAY WELL harden your hands. Notice I admitted that. I just think the other variables have no effect on whether it works.

A true scientific test would be to test it your way, then test it without some(or all) of the variables.

[sanjuro_ronin]

FYI:
The whole "sex weakens legs" view from boxing was a myth that has been dispilled.

There was a study done in which athletic performance was measured before and after ejaculation ( yes, they do this crap for science) and there was no change in atheltic performance either anerobic or aerobic or strenght out put.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I will say that Dale's system requires more then just the jow and striking. He told the tester to not drink alcohol, not eat fried foods, no cold drinks after a workout, and to abstain from sex.

Reply]
All Iron palm is like this, not just his system.

On the abstinence factor, I think that really depends on the person. If you are Italian for example (like me), you are so over flowing with vital essence abstaining would make you burst and be counter productive to Iron Palm training. You are better of just adhering to your normal sexual patterns.

An Italian actually performs better athletically if they are sexually active, than not. Of course, even into old age we only take a few hours or so to recharge and are ready to go again so it's all relative to your own natural body condition. Others may not have those attributes.

When I did Iron hand, I noticed no lack of development from being active with Terri the whole time. The only thing I'd advise is not doing it 3 times a day so you deplete your reserves so much that you end up shooting blanks.

Others who are not blessed to be Italian and don't have much of a reserve, and take really long times to recharge after, should abstain. Others still, might be somewhere in between and just need to cut back a little. It all depends on your individual body.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I will say that Dale's system requires more then just the jow and striking. He told the tester to not drink alcohol, not eat fried foods, no cold drinks after a workout, and to abstain from sex.

Reply]
All Iron palm is like this, not just his system.

On the abstinence factor, I think that really depends on the person. If you are Italian for example (like me), you are so over flowing with vital essence abstaining would make you burst and be counter productive to Iron Palm training. You are better of just adhering to your normal sexual patterns.

An Italian actually performs better athletically if they are sexually active, than not. Of course, even into old age we only take a few hours or so to recharge and are ready to go again so it's all relative to your own natural body condition. Others may not have those attributes.

When I did Iron hand, I noticed no lack of development from being active with Terri the whole time. The only thing I'd advise is not doing it 3 times a day so you deplete your reserves so much that you end up shooting blanks.

Others who are not blessed to be Italian and don't have much of a reserve, and take really long times to recharge after, should abstain. Others still, might be somewhere in between and just need to cut back a little. It all depends on your individual body.

Next time warn me to put on my boots before you start piling up the bull****.

[1bad65]

boxers do this for the title fight if they're smart.

Not according to Teddy Atlas. FYI, he is a world class trainer. He was Michael Moorer's trainer when he won the Heavyweight title from Evander Holyfield.


FYI:
The whole "sex weakens legs" view from boxing was a myth that has been dispilled.

Not to the chi proponents apparently. :rolleyes:

[diego]

FYI:
The whole "sex weakens legs" view from boxing was a myth that has been dispilled.

There was a study done in which athletic performance was measured before and after ejaculation ( yes, they do this crap for science) and there was no change in atheltic performance either anerobic or aerobic or strenght out put.

well, for your information Stallone ( don't shoot me) said he abstained from sex for the filming of his recent ROCKY feature. Sly mentioned all the boxing guys he met abstained from sex before the fight so when they got in there they were so amped up to just get it over with:D

[1bad65]

Next time warn me to put on my boots before you start piling up the bull****.

Get used to it. ;)

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

steroid for bones...the warming of the tissue from the liquid aids the hulking process or there is actual elements in the liquid that seep into the pores?.

Reply]
The Jow soaks deep into the tissue. They say down to the bone. Also, many of the herbs in the Iron hand Jow are also used to speed the healing of broken bones in regular Chinese medicine and are applied both topically, and taken internally.

The Iron Hand formula in my system for instance is a 2 part. Part one is the standard hand soak, the other you drink about an hour before you do the Iron palm training.

Someone made a comment about deadening the nerves before? Iron hand makes your bones like steel bars that resist actual damage itself. It's not a nerve deadening issue at all.

[sanjuro_ronin]

well, for your information Stallone ( don't shoot me) said he abstained from sex for the filming of his recent ROCKY feature. Sly mentioned all the boxing guys he met abstained from sex before the fight so when they got in there they were so amped up to just get it over with:D

Yep, this was true in the old days.
Now don't get me wrong, not getting taco before a fight does make you fight "better" and by better I mean meaner and you want the fight to be over faster so you can go get some nookie cookie !
:D

[1bad65]

yes chi exisits,but i hope if oyu are on a kung fu site you know and believe this already.

And there is as much proof it does as there is that the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus exist.

[sanjuro_ronin]

And there is as much proof it does as there is that the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus exist.

I view chi as the electro-magnetic field that all living beings have, so yes, it does exist.
:p

[1bad65]

The Jow soaks deep into the tissue. They say down to the bone.

You do know that could be tested in a scientific way right?

HF (Hydrofluoric Acid) does, and it's been scientifically proven.

[1bad65]

I view chi as the electro-magnetic field that all living beings have, so yes, it does exist.
:p

The 'electro-magnetic field' that cannot be seen or detected or measured or proven by science. :rolleyes:

[diego]

Yep, this was true in the old days.
Now don't get me wrong, not getting taco before a fight does make you fight "better" and by better I mean meaner and you want the fight to be over faster so you can go get some nookie cookie !
:D

how's that saying go...."KICK HIS ASS AND GO HOME WITH THE PROM QUEEN":)

[sanjuro_ronin]

The 'electro-magnetic field' that cannot be seen or detected or measured or proven by science. :rolleyes:

Heathen, you saying that living being don't give off an "electro-magnetic" energy field ?

[sanjuro_ronin]

how's that saying go...."KICK HIS ASS AND GO HOME WITH THE PROM QUEEN":)

BOOYAHH !!

[1bad65]

Yep, and that's what science says as well.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Yep, and that's what science says as well.

BAH !!
What does science know of the force ???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioelectromagnetism

[Dale Dugas]

This is the same science that creates drugs from natural sources to help people, yet the side effects are printed out on 3-4 pages with tiny print. Many times causing greater damage than the original disease. Yeah, that science is great........

I would rather use something that works and does not cause such harm to me or my students.

You do not want to believe in it then drop it and stop going on about it.

[diego]

The 'electro-magnetic field' that cannot be seen or detected or measured or proven by science. :rolleyes:

YOU EVER THOUGHT SOMETHING TO YOUR PET AND IT DID IT...**** caps:) how does a dog know you are good or an intruder...how do you know someone is nerd or cool just watching them walk...how do you know if someone is a pimp or a preacher while discussing football...how does a cat fall off a plane and find it's way home with its two pals the doggie and mouse, lol

sixth sense man...

[Dale Dugas]

more like their intention and the ability to detect others intention is greater in animals than man.

Compared to them we are stupid.

[diego]

steroid for bones...the warming of the tissue from the liquid aids the hulking process or there is actual elements in the liquid that seep into the pores?.

Reply]
The Jow soaks deep into the tissue. They say down to the bone. Also, many of the herbs in the Iron hand Jow are also used to speed the healing of broken bones in regular Chinese medicine and are applied both topically, and taken internally.

The Iron Hand formula in my system for instance is a 2 part. Part one is the standard hand soak, the other you drink about an hour before you do the Iron palm training.

Someone made a comment about deadening the nerves before? Iron hand makes your bones like steel bars that resist actual damage itself. It's not a nerve deadening issue at all.

Cool, I just got over a heel injury, wish I had some jow...never done the jow training, messed my middle knuckle up on the bag tho:rolleyes:

[sanjuro_ronin]

http://www.vxm.com/21R.43.html

http://www.exrx.net/Store/HK/HumanBodyComposition.html

http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/sabl/2007/Jul/perchlorate.html


:D

[1bad65]

This is the same science that creates drugs from natural sources to help people, yet the side effects are printed out on 3-4 pages with tiny print. Many times causing greater damage than the original disease. Yeah, that science is great........

So what's your take on Ginseng and St John's Wort?



You do not want to believe in it then drop it and stop going on about it.

First off, this is a DISCUSSION forum. Second, I don't believe in 'chi', but I am interested in how the 'test' being done on BS turns out.

[sanjuro_ronin]

So what's your take on Ginseng and St John's Wort?




First off, this is a DISCUSSION forum. Second, I don't believe in 'chi', but I am interested in how the 'test' being done on BS turns out.

Ah dude, I already addressed that test and how behind the curve it is.

[diego]

more like their intention and the ability to detect others intention is greater in animals than man.

Compared to them we are stupid.

that's the thing tho, I grew up with like at least ten cats in the house at a time on some Beast Master ****:)...I read people all the time, and it frustrates me:D makes me a mean person.

[Dale Dugas]

I actually sent Kegdrainer the kit to see if he would man up. Too many clowns out there. He did. Be interesting to see what turns out.

[1bad65]

more like their intention and the ability to detect others intention is greater in animals than man.

Did you ever think that some dogs just don't like strangers? Or they were trained by humans to not like strangers? Or they were abused in the past and only trust their new, kind owner?

There is a rational reason for everything, some just choose to not see it.


Compared to them we are stupid.

That's why they drink out of toilets. :rolleyes:

[Dale Dugas]

So what's your take on Ginseng and St John's Wort?

You mean my take on do they work?

Ginseng has been proven as an adaptogen.

I use st john worts in my Iron Palm medicine. Its a great pain killer. Depression? Maybe for some, and maybe others need something stronger. It pains me to see people suffering from side effects of medications that they NEED to take for serious medical conditions. Im in nursing school(got my first year under my sash) and see this weekly. It sucks a s s to see people suffering.

I say try natural first and see if your condition improves. If it works for them, then it works. Do not have to explain it to them.

Chinese medicine does not give out the same treatment for the same conditions. You have to tailor the treatment to many variables pertaining to that person.

Unlike Western Medicine that gives out the same drugs no matter what and thinks its going to help the majority. Maybe, but many will react negatively. We could learn something from each other.

[sanjuro_ronin]

http://www.ru.nl/mbphysics/research/bioelectricity/

http://www.springer.com/engineering/biomedical+eng/book/978-0-387-48864-6

and so much more...

[1bad65]

Ah dude, I already addressed that test and how behind the curve it is.

I agree it is in no way a true scientific test. I am still interested in Kegdrainer's results though.

[teetsao]

just because "science" cant prove it doesn't mean anything. science has only proven that certain constituents such as micro/macro nutrients exist in food, and you can buy all of these in a vitamin supply house. now try living on just those and water. make your funeral arrangements in advance though. food contains things that the body must have to live but science cannot prove it, does that mean it does not exist?? i think not. chi is for real, it is the internal energy that keeps the body alive and going, qigong is just an exercise for it, to strengthen it and condition it, kinda like lifting weights for your internal energy. when you are young young most people have alot, but if oyu do not take care of it ie; qigong,clen food,pure water positive thoughts, you will suffer in old age. but back to science, it is gov. funded and almost always comes out with the theory,yes it is all a theory that gels with some big company of the fda or someone else that has a vestment. like dale said all the fine print. on a tv drug comercial the first 1/2 tells you what the drug is supposed to do, the second 1/2 tells you what it WILL do. l.o.l.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I agree it is in no way a true scientific test. I am still interested in Kegdrainer's results though.

Why?
Seriously, why?
They won't prove or disprove anything.
At least mine had before and after stuff and everyone likes those :)

[diego]

Did you ever think that some dogs just don't like strangers? Or they were trained by humans to not like strangers? Or they were abused in the past and only trust their new, kind owner?

There is a rational reason for everything, some just choose to not see it.



That's why they drink out of toilets. :rolleyes:

an elephant doesn't have toilets:rolleyes::D humans smoke crack rocks and do worse to get said boulders.

[Dale Dugas]

There is a rational reason for everything, some just choose to not see it.

So let me ask you.

Do you believe in god?

Or in the existence of other life in the universe other than ourselves?

[1bad65]

Ginseng has been proven as an adaptogen.

What is an adaptogen?


I use st john worts in my Iron Palm medicine. Its a great pain killer. Depression? Maybe for some, and maybe others need something stronger.

But is has side effects, correct?


Unlike Western Medicine that gives out the same drugs no matter what and thinks its going to help the majority. Maybe, but maybe not. We could learn something from each other.

I agree somewhat. Like Ritalin is passed out like candy, thats wrong. But to say not to take 'scientific/Western' cancer treatments and instead use your 'chi' to fight cancer, is just as ridiculous.

[Dale Dugas]

What is an adaptogen?

Helps your body adapt to stress in times of need. Here is a link that mentions many of the big ones . http://www.chiro.org/nutrition/FULL/Adaptogenic_Herbs.shtml Written by a chiropractor.



But is has side effects, correct?

None if you use it wisely. Too many fools in this nation think more is better



I agree somewhat. Like Ritalin is passed out like candy, thats wrong. But to say not to take 'scientific/Western' cancer treatments and instead use your 'chi' to fight cancer, is just as ridiculous.

I have never said anything of the kind. You are making some silly assumptions here 1bad.

You can use natural means to help support you when you are on cancer killing chemo or radiation treatments that suck the life out of you.



see above in bold

[diego]

Did you ever think that some dogs just don't like strangers? Or they were trained by humans to not like strangers? Or they were abused in the past and only trust their new, kind owner?

There is a rational reason for everything, some just choose to not see it.



That's why they drink out of toilets. :rolleyes:

nah i got bit by a dog when i was young...i tried to help it by taking the bucket off of its head

lol

i thought some ******* put a bucket on his head

hated mutts since, but i tried to like them. now i don't care about them but if i'm in a bad mood and i walk by one it will bark at me even if i think positive thoughts towards it...it just knows what my subconscious feels. I haven't studied freaking ants but don't they all work for the queen like bees like they have a group mind...all the psychic bull**** people sell is prolly just a human queen mind.

[MasterKiller]

What is an adaptogen?.

Google, mutherf@cker, do you speak it?


The word adaptogen is used by herbalists to refer to a natural herb product that increases the body's resistance to stresses such as trauma, anxiety and bodily fatigue.

[diego]

Google, mutherf@cker, do you speak it?

lol he prolly thought it was some hippy talk being a texan and all.

[1bad65]

Do you believe in god?

Yes I do. And I freely admit it is faith. I do not believe that God made me wealthy, or got me my job, or gave me my possessions, or will heal me, or He speaks to me, or He will bless my favorite sports team for example.

The 'chi' proponents are saying what REAL effect the 'chi' had though.

That's the difference. You do see the difference right?


Or in the existence of other life in the universe other than ourselves?

I do not believe in that. Again, it's a religious, and thus faith based conclusion. I will admit I cannot say that I KNOW for a fact it does not.

[1bad65]

None if you use it wisely.

We disagree there then.




I have never said anything of the kind. You are making some silly assumptions here

I never said you did Dale. Notice I ASKED you the question.

But some do belive in that. And some idiots belive in faith healers.

[diego]

Yes I do. And I freely admit it is faith. I do not believe that God made me wealthy, or got me my job, or gave me my possessions, or will heal me, or He speaks to me, or He will bless my favorite sports team for example.

The 'chi' proponents are saying what REAL effect the 'chi' had though.

That's the difference. You do see the difference right?



I do not believe in that. Again, it's a religious, and thus faith based conclusion. I will admit I cannot say that I KNOW for a fact it does not.
1bad you don't beleive in chi because you're christian? why didn't you say that...i'm bhuddist but i beleive in science...i'm sure there is a scientific explanation to define what the old chinese called chi....

man you say hindu to a christian he'll file petition for a brand new crusade ****, you shoulda said so, here I was thinking you being all stubborn scientific.

[1bad65]

1bad you don't beleive in chi because you're christian? why didn't you say that.

I actually NEVER did say that.

I don't believe in 'chi' because it can't be proven and idiots that try to prove it fail time and time again.

Also, some Christians are not big fans of science as science cannot prove God exists.

[Dale Dugas]

We disagree there then.

I do not know what you mean here?

Could you explain?

[1bad65]

I think it has side effects. Overuse may increase the side effects, but the ginseng itself causes them.

[diego]

AND NOW TO TAKE THIS THREAD TO THE NEXT LEVEL:)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6637396204037343133

WATCH WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A GOVERNMENT GETS A NATIVE PEOPLE TO SIGN OVER THEIR LAND FOR PROTECTED LAND AND THEN WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THAT LAND WAS SIGNED OVER TO BE A RESIDENTIAL SCHOOL AND THE CHURCH RUNNING THE SCHOOL DECIDES TO SELL THE LAND TO THAT M BURTON COMPANY WHILE PROTECTED BY THE RCMP


This happenned three hours from my house....50,000 dead in the last century. enjoy

[Dale Dugas]

I actually NEVER did say that.

I don't believe in 'chi' because it can't be proven and idiots that try to prove it fail time and time again.

Also, some Christians are not big fans of science as science cannot prove God exists.

You have faith in god, some have faith in an energy within. Seems its all one and the same just different means to express it.

[teetsao]

i am a CHRISTian. i believe in chi, no, i know chi exists. i can feel it.i can feel the difference in doing qigong and not doing it. being a christian has nothing to do with this. GOD put the chi in me,he put it in adam when he breathed the breath of life in to him, it is as much a part of our bodies as blood vessels,arteries,cells and blood. there is nothing religious about chi. it is just a fact and a part of your body. oh by the way yes it can be measured. there is new instruments that can measure chi.heat transference is also a measure of chi manifestation. it is guided by the yi/intent. this should not even be an argument on this site. i thought this was a traditional kung fu site?

[diego]

i am a CHRISTian. i believe in chi, no, i know chi exists. i can feel it.i can feel the difference in doing qigong and not doing it. being a christian has nothing to do with this. GOD put the chi in me,he put it in adam when he breathed the breath of life in to him, it is as much a part of our bodies as blood vessels,arteries,cells and blood. there is nothing religious about chi. it is just a fact and a part of your body. oh by the way yes it can be measured. there is new instruments that can measure chi.heat transference is also a measure of chi manifestation. it is guided by the yi/intent. this should not even be an argument on this site. i thought this was a traditional kung fu site?

one bad is a mixed martial artists...i think he got mixed up and landed on the kung fu forum;)

[1bad65]

You have faith in god, some have faith in an energy within. Seems its all one and the same just different means to express it.

Not really.

Take this example: Dillman and his minions say they can manipulate 'chi' and KO people. They fail every time they try this. Remember, they claim they can do this.

But you don't see a Christian like me claiming I can manipulate God and use Him to be sure you win a beauty pageant for example. Or you will get a better job this week. See the difference?

[1bad65]

it is just a fact and a part of your body. oh by the way yes it can be measured. there is new instruments that can measure chi.heat transference is also a measure of chi manifestation. it is guided by the yi/intent.

So where is the proof?


this should not even be an argument on this site. i thought this was a traditional kung fu site?

Don't tell me you are making your excuses in advance for not being able to provide the proof. :rolleyes:


FYI, if you can prove 'chi' exists, you can be a millionaire. Go to Randi.org and take the test.

[diego]

Not really.

Take this example: Dillman and his minions say they can manipulate 'chi' and KO people. They fail every time they try this. Remember, they claim they can do this.

But you don't see a Christian like me claiming I can manipulate God and use Him to be sure you win a beauty pageant for example. Or you will get a better job this week. See the difference?
you don't do kung fu and you talking about white people and claims of chi...i do kung fu and i'm interested in how chi studies can make really old chinese guys youthfull...you just as full of **** as the charlatans cuz you their hater are only spreading their name instead of looking into a topic that's been talked about for 3000 years in the east...you don't contribute much to this forum, but I like you as a person, just don't understand your intent. go look at porn instead of able homie......

[Dale Dugas]

Not really.

Take this example: Dillman and his minions say they can manipulate 'chi' and KO people. They fail every time they try this. Remember, they claim they can do this.

But you don't see a Christian like me claiming I can manipulate God and use Him to be sure you win a beauty pageant for example. Or you will get a better job this week. See the difference?

There is no difference. Both are claiming things that do not exist.

[1bad65]

AGAIN Diego, I mostly post here or the MMA section.

This was just discussed recently that this area is the 'general discussion' area. When you see me offering KF advice, point it out and I will leave. You will see very quickly that I only post about subjects I have experience in or have an interest in.

[teetsao]

well i will be the first to say that dill man is probably a fraud. just like there are fraudulent ministers, but does that mean i am? or that my church is? there will always be somene trying to take advanteg of people, that is why we as kung fu bros. need to stick together, to help one another and over come all of the fraud. to be honest most of the real qigong masters never demonstarte in public, they have nothing to prove, they know it is for real and don't care if you believe or not. to them it is a secret,it will help them obtain better health which leads to longer life and more power,physical and emotional. now if oyu had that type of power, would you show everyone else how to do it??? believe me, sifu dugas did not "show" everything he knows or all of hte secrets to that guy on b.s. he just gave him enough to prove it is real and it does work, just a "scratch" on the surface, or more like the tip of the iceberg as it runs very,very deep. sorry sifu dugas i hope i did not say too much, if i did pleas forgive.

[Dale Dugas]

So where is the proof?



Don't tell me you are making your excuses in advance for not being able to provide the proof. :rolleyes:


FYI, if you can prove 'chi' exists, you can be a millionaire. Go to Randi.org and take the test.

How about proving that god exists. that would be even better. We can argue all day. It does nothing.

Enjoy your training 1bad. If you ever want to try a free bottle of injury medicine send me a pm or email and ill send you a bottle of something that is helping many of the people over at BS as well as all over the world.

be well

[1bad65]

There is no difference. Both are claiming things that do not exist.

Come on Dale.

The difference is they claim they can manipilate, and thus prove the existance of, 'chi'.

I do not make such claims. I freely admit it's faith, that I am unable to prove the existance of God.

That's the difference.

[diego]

AGAIN Diego, I mostly post here or the MMA section.

This was just discussed recently that this area is the 'general discussion' area. When you see me offering KF advice, point it out and I will leave. You will see very quickly that I only post about subjects I have experience in or have an interest in.

my bad, forgot we have a mma forum, and this is the gen forum:)

[1bad65]

How about proving that god exists. that would be even better. We can argue all day. It does nothing.

Enjoy your training 1bad. If you ever want to try a free bottle of injury medicine send me a pm or email and ill send you a bottle of something that is helping many of the people over at BS as well as all over the world.

be well

Well he said that it can be proven! I made no such claims. I freely admit I cannot prove God exists.

I may well try it. I'm watching the thread with interest. I'll admit upfront that I will not change my sexual, eating, or drinking habits. I already do not drink alcohol though.

And you be well too.

[teetsao]

holy cow, you had better jump on this 1bad65. sifu dugas medicine is very famous in the kung fu world. this is almost unheard of, offering you free medicine, even after you have basically attacked dale and his teachings. he humbles me, and should humble you. i came to thiis board for infor and comradery, all i have seen so far is strife, then out of it all sifu dugas offers you something, just to help you,not to sway your thinking, just to help.

[1bad65]

Both are claiming things that do not exist.

I'm confused now. Do you believe in 'chi'?

[1bad65]

even after you have basically attacked dale and his teachings.

I have not. I have looked at the test on his stuff with an open mind. It may work for Kegdrainer and it may not. I do feel the drinking, sex, and food stuff will have no effect either way, but that's my opinion.

[Dale Dugas]

I'm confused now. Do you believe in 'chi'?

I believe in Qi, I do not believe in people who make claims as to knocking people out without touching them. That is BS.

You can knock people out with less than destructive forces but you need to know what nerves to hit.

Dillman claims much and cannot back up half the things that come out of his mouth.

[diego]

hello, i am new to the board and wanted to introduve myself. i study kung fu,kali and muay thai. i do not post much but try to learn from others posts.my main feild of study is iron skills.i hope to learn alot from you guys,and be able to contribute something worthwhile to the forum.
i am the one with hair.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSYuOr_zfYw


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqD0IecjOjk&feature=related


Oh ya, great thread by the way guy:)

There is a wealth of gung fu talent on the internet it just seems people bicker so much they just pass through...post a question on gung fu on any of these forums and you will get what you need...

[teetsao]

i would like to make one last post on this subject. 1bad65 asked about proof of chi and chi projection. my proof is in the block breaking. i think you could probably break 1 or maybe 2 unspaced 2x8x16 blocks without qigong,or by just being strong. but once you get to the 3 level and above,(not spaced) if you have not had the proper training you cannot do it. try it if you don't beleive me, got out lowes buy a few and try it. hope you have insurance,emergency rooms are expensive these days. also try to break a coconut. that is enought proof for me. a year agoe i could do neither now i can do both, the only difference? i.p. training with the best jow and qigong, with advice from sifu dugas. also i do train in mma this is the school i train at, www.trmaa.com
but i love kung fu, it has substance and lineage.a complete system,training,herbs qigong,everything.

[1bad65]

my proof is in the block breaking.

And that can be scientifically proven.

Body mechanics, force, velocity, etc. All scientific principles that have been tested.


hope you have insurance,emergency rooms are expensive these days. also try to break a coconut.

Why would I try something I have no training in? That's stupid. I do say I could do it, with the right training. And without the 'chi' bs as well.

Again, science can prove how it is done, and 'chi' plays absolutely no part in it.

[1bad65]

I believe in Qi, I do not believe in people who make claims as to knocking people out without touching them. That is BS.

You can knock people out with less than destructive forces but you need to know what nerves to hit.

Dillman claims much and cannot back up half the things that come out of his mouth.

I agree Dillman and his ilk are full of sh1t. But my point was that they claim they can prove 'chi' exists and they fail badly EVERY time they try it on a sceptic or scientist.

[1bad65]

Again on the block breaking. I have watched those power breaking competitions on TV. They always show a slow-motion replay to show how a guy had a good or bad break. You can usually see quite easily by the body mechanics how someone failed to do well. Also, when the contestants are interviewed I've never heard a winner say his strong 'chi' was why he won or a loser say his weak 'chi' was why he lost.

[Lucas]

QI?

I know people who are not involved in TCMA generally dont know this, so I will share for 1bad65.

Qi, many times, referes to several different aspects of life. One, if not the, most prominent references used by the word 'qi' is the breath.

There is a fine line between what many westerns view to be qi, and what is actually meant in the teachings.

There are many instances of the word qi being use, where you would fully agree with the speaker. But through not understanding what they are actually refering to, you disavow out of hand.

I have seen this many, many times.

Everyone uses qi to exert more force to gain extra power in a strike. This is why we quickly exert the oxygen in our lungs. That is one usage of qi in combat. Breathing. When to inhale, exhale, etc.

Many other usages of the word "QI" corelate to the same type of scientifically proven events in the human body, as in the word breath or air.

You just have to actualy do your research and study what you are picking apart.

I can garantee that if you have been reading or talking with CMA folks, there has been at least one instance of the word qi used in reference to the breath, and you likely threw it out the window, because the word qi was used.

You can only miss out on opportunities or chances to fully understand what someone is trying to say to you if you respond like this 100% of the time.

NOW, there are many scientifical usages of the word qi, and many non (western) scientific uses of the word QI.

With in depth study (which im not saying you should do) you can disect what instances correlate with knowledge that you can transfer to proven western terms, and the ones you can not.

but you can not do that without the proper studies.

I have done mine, and have a pretty good line drawn for myself as to what is meant regarding qi under certain contexts.

[SifuAbel]

So what DO you like about kung fu, Mike.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[NJM]

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Is quoting yourself cool again?

[NJM]

Is quoting yourself cool again?
????????>>>

[SifuAbel]

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Yes, BS *****.

[NJM]

Yeah, impartiality must make me a *****.
Like that ****ing UN, it never picks sides when I want it to.

[SifuAbel]

here: http://z6.invisionfree.com/No_BS_Martial_Arts/index.php?showtopic=152&st=0#entry11027762

Know what you're hating before you hate it.

Impartial?!?! pft meh

[NJM]

here: http://z6.invisionfree.com/No_BS_Martial_Arts/index.php?showtopic=152&st=0#entry11027762

Know what you're hating before you hate it.

I registered on that board and have been a member since before your fight with Anthony.

[SifuAbel]

good for you. Read slowly.

[NJM]

good for you. Read slowly.
Are those centipedes just about ready to hatch?

[SifuAbel]

what?????? smoke dope much?

Interesting sig, hypocritical as it is.

[Takuan]

I view chi as the electro-magnetic field that all living beings have, so yes, it does exist.
:p

Bio-electricity is one of the body properties that people refer to as qi. I.e. nerve transmission, contraction of muscles, etc. is all governed by binary nerve impulses.


The 'electro-magnetic field' that cannot be seen or detected or measured or proven by science. :rolleyes:
See above post, it's not really a field, per se, though.

Yep, and that's what science says as well.


YOU EVER THOUGHT SOMETHING TO YOUR PET AND IT DID IT...**** caps:) how does a dog know you are good or an intruder...how do you know someone is nerd or cool just watching them walk...how do you know if someone is a pimp or a preacher while discussing football...how does a cat fall off a plane and find it's way home with its two pals the doggie and mouse, lol
sixth sense man...

Qi is not a sixth sense, the "sixth" sense is a culmination of the other five, mixed with our ituition.


just because "science" cant prove it doesn't mean anything. science has only proven that certain constituents such as micro/macro nutrients exist in food, and you can buy all of these in a vitamin supply house. now try living on just those and water. make your funeral arrangements in advance though. food contains things that the body must have to live but science cannot prove it, ...

Uhh. You can buy variable digestions of protein other than casein and whey? Saturated, unsaturated, monounsaturated fats, complex and other saccarides, and other essential nutrients?

Go figure. Science has proved a majority of the body's need for nutrient intake. But it would be insane to try to replace a steak with whey, casein, iron, creatine, glycogen stored in the muscles of the cow, fats, etc. For one, the psychological effect of food.

But anyway, you're referring to supplemental products, and how they can't replace food because of qi and magic. Supplements aren't meant to replace food. They're meant to be SUPPLEMENTAL to a good diet.



Well he said that it can be proven! I made no such claims. I freely admit I cannot prove God exists.

I may well try it. I'm watching the thread with interest. I'll admit upfront that I will not change my sexual, eating, or drinking habits. I already do not drink alcohol though.

And you be well too.

This is TCMA, you probably have to drink snake's venom and root of bullfrog because those probably have some sort of awesome qi building property.

It has nothing to do with psychological state of mind at all :O


QI?
I know people who are not involved in TCMA generally dont know this, so I will share for 1bad65.
Qi, many times, referes to several different aspects of life. One, if not the, most prominent references used by the word 'qi' is the breath.
There is a fine line between what many westerns view to be qi, and what is actually meant in the teachings.
There are many instances of the word qi being use, where you would fully agree with the speaker. But through not understanding what they are actually refering to, you disavow out of hand.
I have seen this many, many times.
Everyone uses qi to exert more force to gain extra power in a strike. This is why we quickly exert the oxygen in our lungs. That is one usage of qi in combat. Breathing. When to inhale, exhale, etc.
Many other usages of the word "QI" corelate to the same type of scientifically proven events in the human body, as in the word breath or air.
You just have to actualy do your research and study what you are picking apart.
I can garantee that if you have been reading or talking with CMA folks, there has been at least one instance of the word qi used in reference to the breath, and you likely threw it out the window, because the word qi was used.
You can only miss out on opportunities or chances to fully understand what someone is trying to say to you if you respond like this 100% of the time.
NOW, there are many scientifical usages of the word qi, and many non (western) scientific uses of the word QI.
With in depth study (which im not saying you should do) you can disect what instances correlate with knowledge that you can transfer to proven western terms, and the ones you can not.
but you can not do that without the proper studies.
I have done mine, and have a pretty good line drawn for myself as to what is meant regarding qi under certain contexts.

Lucas has it goin' on. Qi is a term for the collective body processes that deal with energy. Nerve impulses, blood flow, breath, concentration, vasodilation, etc.

The most basic way that people understand qi, is by saying "when we're doing this exercise, concentrate your breath to your hands when you breathe out. this is mostly illustrative of all the sensations that people don't pay attention to during physiological stimuli. You can feel your pulse most of the time if you pay attention to it. Using the nerves, feeling the blood flow, watching the veins dilate and what not.

Just science likes to refer to the most basic properties. But the chinese way of doing it enables you to obtain a more holistic action by saying "focus your qi into your hand and punch this tree."

But "qi projection" and all that **** is ridiculous. Yes you can "transfer" qi, upon contact. We like to call that kinetic energy.

There's also heat radiating off of us from our core body temp, people like to feel that to explain qi as well.

1bad, I'm feelin' ya man.

[1bad65]

I just look at things through science most of the time. I'm naturally that way, and my job requires it as well.

[1bad65]

Is quoting yourself cool again?

Again, notice who just can't leave me alone.

As I stated before and have been proven correct on: SifuExcuses won't stop. The 'Net is his life. It's all he is and all he has.

In real life he is a fat jerk who can't fight for sh1t and longer than 1 minute at that. But on the 'Net he is the indestructable Kung-Fu fighter Sifu Abel.

[1bad65]

Yes you can "transfer" qi, upon contact. We like to call that kinetic energy.

And kinetic energy can be proven. Calling it 'chi' does not prove chi exists. It's like me saying God exists because it took a miracle for the Giants to beat the Patriots. It's just an upset in sports, there is a rational explanation for it.


There's also heat radiating off of us from our core body temp, people like to feel that to explain qi as well.

Again, there is a logical, scientifically proven reason for body heat.

[bakxierboxer]

You do know that could be tested in a scientific way right?

HF (Hydrofluoric Acid) does, and it's been scientifically proven.

????????
If you want to make that Hyaluronic Acid.....
It's the base for Hyaluronidase, which is/was the active ingredient in Alidase, Wydase, et al.
These were used in Western Medicine to decrease post-operative swelling and bruising.
Strangely, it was orginally isolated from a TCM jow formula......

[The Willow Sword]

Never been a fan of Iron Palm and that type of training.(and YES i have done it) In my opinion it does more harm than good to your body. Fascia, Muscle and bone are constantly bludgeoned to create a dull and null effect on the hands and arms so as to make them tougher when in hand to hand combat. The Jow serves only as a temporary topical ointment that temporarily heals the afflicted areas it is applied to. But Jow doesnt cure carpel tunnel syndrom and fascitis and a host of other structural problems associated with the prolonged damaging of your hands and arms and legs(hence iron palm training). The iron palm will ultimately,in my opinion, lead to osteo-arthritis,and joint problems, and that will manifest as decreased mobility in the extremeties.

Many do not realize the extremes to which they take their body in this practice in order to "feel" tougher. Sure you can punch through a wall now(uhh why would you unless it was to impress chicks?hehe) and the few real major fights you get into in your life will yeild some benefit(uhh unless they have a gun and since i last checked, iron palm training cant block a bullet)or they have another very sharp weapon designed to slice through skin fascia muscle bone etc(in which case jow aint gonna solve that problem.) oh and uhh how many epic battles involving your hands and legs are you going to get into this year? Have the huns come out of the hills again to ravage the country side? Will this be the year of the apocalypse where we finally get to really utilize the iron palm training and bludgeon our way into victory? Either way, you are still going to get arthritis, severe i might add, and you are going to damage nerves and fascia and create more calcium deposits on the joints you are stressing when you do those silly excersises, your mobility will decrease and later in life you are going to sit there and wonder why the fuk you even weredoing that to begin with.
dont get me wrong, i love kung fu and martial arts. iron palm can stay where it should be, in the past and a reminder of how neanderthal we once were when it comes to training our bodies for war, fighting, self defense, etc etc.

Peace,TWS

[SifuAbel]

????????
If you want to make that Hyaluronic Acid.....
It's the base for Hyaluronidase, which is/was the active ingredient in Alidase, Wydase, et al.
These were used in Western Medicine to decrease post-operative swelling and bruising.
Strangely, it was orginally isolated from a TCM jow formula......

Doh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SifuAbel]

So what DO you like about kung fu, Mike.

Its an honest question. One that you've never directly answered. What you are here for is obvious to anyone with one eye and a computer screen. So it isn't an answer.

:rolleyes:

LMAO @ "as does anthony." Because I never showed the first time. :rolleyes:

[kwaichang]

I disagree with all that except the bullet blocking thing KC

[teetsao]

o.k. i see what this has turned into and i am the new guy. i didn't mean to get anything started, however i would like to know, what kind of kung fu do you guys study? do any of you do qigong, or what about the iron wire set, the most famous qigong set in kung fu? i can't believe i find so much anamosity towards traditional kung fu and traditional training proceedures on a kung fu forum. what's up?

[SifuAbel]

i can't believe i find so much anamosity towards traditional kung fu and traditional training proceedures on a kung fu forum. what's up?

Its quite revealing, isn't it.

[1bad65]

For about the 812th time, I do not do KF. I also do not come on here and give advice about KF.

I mainly hang out in the MMA area, but I will comment on threads that interest me or I have knowledge in.

[1bad65]

I also agree with TWS about how the IP training may actually be detrimental to your body.

It's like some old school football coaches would not allow water to be drank during practice to 'toughen up' the players. Now most coaches (and doctors)agree that does more harm to the body than good. Yet some still believe in the old way of doing things.

[diego]

o.k. i see what this has turned into and i am the new guy. i didn't mean to get anything started, however i would like to know, what kind of kung fu do you guys study? do any of you do qigong, or what about the iron wire set, the most famous qigong set in kung fu? i can't believe i find so much anamosity towards traditional kung fu and traditional training proceedures on a kung fu forum. what's up?

I think somewhere there was a group of guys who studied under fraudulent Ninja and when the UFC blew up they started to understand the realities of fighting and now they have been on a mission seeking revenge...a few years ago many con artist martial players got dissed on the net and now these things like able vs 1bad is just a sad ******* love child from the main event of years prior...this prolly makes no sence, but either does it...I find if you skim through all the posts with one or two sentences it makes your surfing time more chill:)

[SifuAbel]

I think somewhere there was a group of guys who studied under fraudulent Ninja and when the UFC blew up they started to understand the realities of fighting and now they have been on a mission seeking revenge...a few years ago many con artist martial players got dissed on the net and now these things like able vs 1bad is just a sad ******* love child from the main event of years prior...this prolly makes no sence, but either does it...I find if you skim through all the posts with one or two sentences it makes your surfing time more chill:)
Actually, 1sad has nothing to do with anything. Thats the point. His obsession is unsolicited, non sequitur, and quite disconnected from the events from last Oct. It had ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING to do with him, MMA v. TMA, or any of the other ass drippings he trys to spin into his own version of the truth. He's a whack job. Everybody here sees what a whack job he is yet he goes on as if he is lobbying for their approval of opinion. He actually want you to believe that I'm after him. When his whole reason for existing last year was to be BS's cheerleader.

Notice that he isn't directly answering the kung fu question. You don;t have to do it to have an opinion of it.

Who's opinion really matters?


people like.......




BTW, I am not taking anyone's side here. But I must say this - you ragged on Rudy in anticipation about his not showing up for the fight. Then he showed. He gets mad props in my book for taking the challenge and showing up. Okay, he didn't win....we all lose fights. But for heaven's sake man, let it go! He showed up, he fought and it didnt' go his way. I'm sure he'll take what he can from it and become a better fighter in the future.

[banditshaw]

o.k. i see what this has turned into and i am the new guy. i didn't mean to get anything started, however i would like to know, what kind of kung fu do you guys study? do any of you do qigong, or what about the iron wire set, the most famous qigong set in kung fu? i can't believe i find so much anamosity towards traditional kung fu and traditional training proceedures on a kung fu forum. what's up?

Welcome to KFM!

Lurking is your friend.

[sanjuro_ronin]

o.k. i see what this has turned into and i am the new guy. i didn't mean to get anything started, however i would like to know, what kind of kung fu do you guys study? do any of you do qigong, or what about the iron wire set, the most famous qigong set in kung fu? i can't believe i find so much anamosity towards traditional kung fu and traditional training proceedures on a kung fu forum. what's up?

Its the very nature of having an opinion.
Some will agree, other disagree and all wlil have "valid" points.
In the grand scheme of things it won't matter that much, we do what we do beacuse we like it, period.
I am not a TCMA, but I do quite a few things from TCMA that I feel help me as a MA, Iron Palm and Iron Thread are just two.

I put in a lot of time researching and studying something before I decied to train in it an devote my very precious time to it.
Not being a TCMA I don't take anything at "face value" or because it happens to work for "some", that's not my way.

In regards to the dangers of IP, I have seen them up close and I have also seen the methods that made those dangers, methods I do NOT follow.
I have also seen the huge benefits of IP and the total lack of the "bad side" of it, so...

Again, not being from a TCMA background I don't do anythign just because
"that's the way", heck it took me months of research and study to decide to do IP and the same thing with IW,

heck most people put more thought into buy a lousy car than into their training regimes.

[1bad65]

His obsession is unsolicited, non sequitur, and quite disconnected from the events from last Oct. It had ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING to do with him, MMA v. TMA, or any of the other ass drippings he trys to spin into his own version of the truth.

Are you as stupid as you are mentally ill? So far you have said you are coming to my gym, you have had someone called 'Rashad Smith' on your board threaten to have his 'cuz' beat me up, and another member of your board (Fox) has threatened to come up to my home or work as well as him or his wife calling my gym!

Unsolicited my ass.


When his whole reason for existing last year was to be BS's cheerleader.

No, it was to finally see you put up after 5 years of talking sh1t and dropping challenges and then punking out. I got what I wanted, a whole 1:22 of you embarrassing yourself.


Notice that he isn't directly answering the kung fu question. You don;t have to do it to have an opinion of it.

I'll try AGAIN. I think the KF you do is a joke. You flailed around throwing haymakers and gassed out in 1 minute.

Guys like Cung Le can fight. Based on his posts about his training, I bet MasterKiller can fight.

[1bad65]

So you want to quote LPS? Let's see what his LAST post said shall we:


You [1bad65] are right. I reread his post. I see your point.

Hey Rudy, please read my above message. I'm sure you're ****ed, but please try to man-up and be done with it. It no longer serves any purpose.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Well, at lest the Sifu Able vs Knifefighter is finally over......

[NJM]

Notice that he isn't directly answering the kung fu question.

Because it's an irrelevant question.

[diego]

Its the very nature of having an opinion.
Some will agree, other disagree and all wlil have "valid" points.
In the grand scheme of things it won't matter that much, we do what we do beacuse we like it, period.
I am not a TCMA, but I do quite a few things from TCMA that I feel help me as a MA, Iron Palm and Iron Thread are just two.

I put in a lot of time researching and studying something before I decied to train in it an devote my very precious time to it.
Not being a TCMA I don't take anything at "face value" or because it happens to work for "some", that's not my way.

In regards to the dangers of IP, I have seen them up close and I have also seen the methods that made those dangers, methods I do NOT follow.
I have also seen the huge benefits of IP and the total lack of the "bad side" of it, so...

Again, not being from a TCMA background I don't do anythign just because
"that's the way", heck it took me months of research and study to decide to do IP and the same thing with IW,

heck most people put more thought into buy a lousy car than into their training regimes.

Why did you decide to train IP and IT Sanjuro?.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Why did you decide to train IP and IT Sanjuro?.

One part curiosity, One part seeing the results of correct training and One part elitist snob attitude !
:D

I found that it was something I wanted (not needed) to add to my training.
I had a solid MA background AND Strength Training background before and I since I have been doing them I have seen improvements in my "Standard" MA and Strength training.
Must be doing somethign right.

[WinterPalm]

Well, at lest the Sifu Able vs Knifefighter is finally over......

Where is THAT guy?

I wanted to tell him that sinking your chi into a good horse stance is the best way to defend against a grappler's tackle.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I have not seen him in a long time. I am starting to wonder if Sifu Abel put him in a Cuban Necktie!

[Lucas]

And kinetic energy can be proven. Calling it 'chi' does not prove chi exists. It's like me saying God exists because it took a miracle for the Giants to beat the Patriots. It's just an upset in sports, there is a rational explanation for it.



Again, there is a logical, scientifically proven reason for body heat.

We are having a problem getting what we are trying to say out.

I'll put it in other terms.

Things like; breath, kinetic energy, the electrical simuli that takes place within the brain, etc. ARE qi

This is where you have to find out the context in which the word qi is being used.

But you cannot get caught up on the word 'qi' in itself.

When QI is used to reference the breath. I can prove that this form of chi is real. Remember, chinese language is not english, they will not say 'breath'. They will say qi more often than not. So in this particular context, science has already proven to what extent this particular qi plays in a martial arts format.

The sticky part is finding out the context, and whether you agree with that particular usage of QI.

Qi prjectition, knocking fools out.....BS, IMO.

Using Qi to help yourself take a hit to the body, as in expelling all the oxygen in your lungs, fully applicable and proven.

Many times it comes down to this:

1) Language Barrier.

2) Context.

I dont know if this is being followed, but I had to delve in myself to get past this point. You have to actually WANT to understand what QI means in certain contexts.

If i refered to a sandwich as xyz. and I tell you, I love to eat xyz, but you only know the word sandwich, you would be like WTF.

but if you understand i use the term xyz to say the word sandwich. many pieces start to fall together.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The issue isn't what Qi is, it's what some profess to do with it.
If Qi was, as you said and I concur, energy, breathe, etc, etc, than it is simple another name for something.
The issue is when one says they can "manipulate" qi into doing such and such and that can't be proven.

[1bad65]

I still don't think stuff like breathing is 'chi'. Breathing is breathing.


Using Qi to help yourself take a hit to the body, as in expelling all the oxygen in your lungs, fully applicable and proven.

I believe actually strengthening your body (like with ab exercises, sit ups, etc) is what makes body blows easier to deal with, not 'chi'. And releasing the air would be a physical act, not anything to do with 'chi'.

Again, if 'chi' is like your examples, how would you strengthen it? Why would ejaculating weaken it?

And again, why do these professional power breakers NEVER mention 'chi' in relation to their sport? I've never heard any of them even mention it.


Things like; breath, kinetic energy, the electrical simuli that takes place within the brain, etc. ARE qi

But that's like me saying trees are made by God, and animals are made by God, and water is made by God, so that proves God exists. Breath, kinetic energy, and electrical activity in the brain can all be proven by science. 'Chi' cannot.

So saying 'Chi' is real because it is really things can be proven, is as valid an argument as the one I used above as an example of proving God exists. It's not an effective argument.

[1bad65]

If Qi was, as you said and I concur, energy, breathe, etc, etc, than it is simple another name for something.

Again, that's like me saying Leprechaun is another name for a rabbit, so since rabbits exist thats proof Leprechauns exist.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Again, that's like me saying Leprechaun is another name for a rabbit, so since rabbits exist thats proof Leprechauns exist.

You mean they don't ???

:eek:

[teetsao]

1bad65 you make a good point, however if oyu look at the power breakers, they always break spaced blocks, not unspaced. almost anyone can learn to break spaced. i see alot if kinetics and body motion and power, and basically alot of them jump off the ground. now i am not saying i break 13-20 spaced concrete. i weigh 160lbs. it is not power or body weight that i break with. it is a conditioned hand and chi. i am not saying breaking is the ultimate test for chi or the end all. i just know that without iron palm and qigong i could not break what i can there are many other things that can be done with chi if you so desire, but i will not get into that here as i do not have time to argue with everyone, but i will say i have seen things that you absolutely would not belive but is absolutely real. also the blocks being broken, even in gueness world recors are over 36 inches long about 2-3 wide, the scalloped type like you line flower gardens with. thay already have weak points inthem on the scallop. i think you missunderstand me, i am not bragging, i was simply stating a fact. i did not come here to make eenemys or argue. i just find it hard to believe that on a kung fu site there are people woh do not believe or do not know what chi is, or how to cultivate it and use it.

[Fox]

Are you as stupid as you are mentally ill? So far you have said you are coming to my gym, you have had someone called 'Rashad Smith' on your board threaten to have his 'cuz' beat me up, and another member of your board (Fox) has threatened to come up to my home or work as well as him or his wife calling my gym!

Unsolicited my ass.



No, it was to finally see you put up after 5 years of talking sh1t and dropping challenges and then punking out. I got what I wanted, a whole 1:22 of you embarrassing yourself.



I'll try AGAIN. I think the KF you do is a joke. You flailed around throwing haymakers and gassed out in 1 minute.

Guys like Cung Le can fight. Based on his posts about his training, I bet MasterKiller can fight.

There you go again ,bringing my name into your posts.

[MightyB]

You mean they don't ???

:eek:

F-#k, there go my retirement plans...

[1bad65]

I've actually seen them break spaced and unspaced targets.

I've seen them break concrete and wood targets btw.

I've also seen some use a fist (knuckles and the bottom part), some a palm, some a foot, and some an elbow for their power breaks.

[sanjuro_ronin]

i just find it hard to believe that on a kung fu site there are people woh do not believe or do not know what chi is, or how to cultivate it and use it.

Why?
Most people don't take things at face value anymore or even just because their Sifu said so.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I've actually seen them break spaced and unspaced targets.

I've seen them break concrete and wood targets btw.

I've also seen some use a fist (knuckles and the bottom part), some a palm, some a foot, and some an elbow for their power breaks.

Dude, trust me, its two different animals.
Remember that video of the IP guy with the huge hand on youtube?
Remember what he was breaking?

[sanjuro_ronin]

F-#k, there go my retirement plans...

Luckly my brothel/chinese restaurant/ dry cleaner plans are in the works

[1bad65]

There you go again ,bringing my name into your posts.

Where there's Mutt, there is always Jeff. :D

I brought up what you admitted to as a reply to your fat buddy's bs statement.

Notice YET AGAIN, the discussion was on topic until you and/or SifeuExcuses came in and tried to derail it.

[Dale Dugas]

he was breaking solid granite with the back of his hand.

Holy Crap!!!!

[sanjuro_ronin]

he was breaking solid granite with the back of his hand.

Holy Crap!!!!

That's the one, freak !!

[1bad65]

Dude, trust me, its two different animals.
Remember that video of the IP guy with the huge hand on youtube?
Remember what he was breaking?

Like I said, I've seen both spaced and unspaced targets.

I'm not familiar with that video btw.

Have you seen the 'chi master' vs the MMA/BJJ guy fight that was in Japan a few years back?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Like I said, I've seen both spaced and unspaced targets.

I'm not familiar with that video btw.

Have you seen the 'chi master' vs the MMA/BJJ guy fight that was in Japan a few years back?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulXzfJq3Dd0

And no, my training wil not make my hand look like that LOL !

Yeah, I remember that video, LMAO !

[MightyB]

Why?
Most people don't take things at face value anymore or even just because their Sifu said so.

This is similar to what you wrote in my KFO recap thread and it actually got me thinking... it is one of the things about this board that's good is that it does have people really questioning the validity of certain traditions- something that's good for CMA whether people like it or not.

My Sifu always warned us of teachers that were afraid of exposing their students to other systems, styles, and schools. He said that if the Sifu wasn't confident in his own abilities, then he definitely didn't want his lack of skills being exposed to the students through them seeing a true master. This board exposes a lot of controversial thoughts- it's good to question everything.

[sanjuro_ronin]

My Sifu always warned us of teachers that were afraid of exposing their students to other systems, styles, and schools. He said that if the Sifu wasn't confident in his own abilities, then he definitely didn't want his lack of skills being exposed to the students through them seeing a true master. This board exposes a lot of controversial thoughts- it's good to question everything.

Good Sifu.
Nothing is above questioning.

[teetsao]

yes i saw that video, it was quite funny, he ia a charloten. he gives the qigong world a bad name. you see this is what i am up against when i try to explain chi to someone. you guys have only seen the fakes and frauds, you have not seen or experienced true qigong. it is o.k. i don't blame you for not believeing. too many fakes out there. it would be like me basing my opinion of mma on all the schools that have sprung up evrywhere, where there is no talent just a bunch of rednecks throwing hands, but luckily i have a real mma school to attend, so i have seen both sides. i think this dead horse has been beaten into the ground, i am done.
thanx.

[1bad65]

Was that video of a demonstration or a competition?

And I could not help but notice who posted it. ;)

[sanjuro_ronin]

Was that video of a demonstration or a competition?

And I could not help but notice who posted it. ;)

Be nice !

It was a competition of sorts I think, could have been a demo, my chinese is almost as good as my Finnish and I don't speak Finnish.
:D

[SifuAbel]

Are you as stupid as you are mentally ill? So far you have said you are coming to my gym, you have had someone called 'Rashad Smith' on your board threaten to have his 'cuz' beat me up, and another member of your board (Fox) has threatened to come up to my home or work as well as him or his wife calling my gym!

Unsolicited my ass.



LMAO!! That's ALL after the fact!!! Its unsolicited. Period. You came out of left field to cheer lead for tony. You INVENTED spins on situations that have no bearing on reality. I can't duck a fight that was supposed to be at the place I teach. Or duck a fight that never came to pass. **** you. What ensued afterwards was a product of your whining drivel.

You are the king of instigation. You post around here with instigation on your avatar like a billboard. You want me to leave you alone? Fine, get rid of all the crap on your avatar and sig and I'll forget you even exist.

[1bad65]

I thought I was on ignore. :rolleyes:

I'll drop it once you do these things:

1. Admit you will not be showing up at my gym despite your threats.
2. Admit 'Rashad Smith' was indeed an alias and thus neither he or his 'cuz' will be showing up at my gym.
3. Never show up on ANY forum, other than your own, and make excuses about your loss to Anthony.
4. Never issue ANY threats or challenges to anyone on any forum other than your own forum.
5. Do not discuss me or anyone I train with on any site and remove any posts on your forum from you and/or others doing so.
6. Never bring up or reference the past with me anywhere, although you can indeed debate/discuss any other threads/topics with me in a rational manner.

If you agree to these conditions I will remove references to you on my avatar and sig. They will be removed after you agree to the above conditions and carry out numbers 1, 2, and 5. If you go back on your word, I will never again agree to any deal with you again. Should you honor your word, I will honor mine.

Deal?

[1bad65]

Of course you will remove anything about anyone in your sig and/or avatar as well.

[Lucas]

my responses are in bold


I still don't think stuff like breathing is 'chi'. Breathing is breathing.

in english yes. thats what you say; Breathing. if you were chinese you could use the word QI to explain part of this process. its a different language man......thats one of the biggest parts of confusion with the word. people, like yourself, often are not able to distinguish the instances when it is in fact a direct translation of english counterparts.



I believe actually strengthening your body (like with ab exercises, sit ups, etc) is what makes body blows easier to deal with, not 'chi'. And releasing the air would be a physical act, not anything to do with 'chi'.

Again. Language. You say, "breath out when you are hit." where in china one could say "use your qi when u are hit." Same thing. yet again, language barrier, and as well as understanding context.

Again, if 'chi' is like your examples, how would you strengthen it? Why would ejaculating weaken it?

One way to "strengthen" qi, is to learn to regulate your breath. To know how to breath, deeply and properly. Rather than shallow and weakly. Prolonged use of proper breathing, DOES strengthen you use of breath in martial arts. This is proven.

And again, why do these professional power breakers NEVER mention 'chi' in relation to their sport? I've never heard any of them even mention it.

I dont know, I am not into power breaking. Not my ballpark.


But that's like me saying trees are made by God, and animals are made by God, and water is made by God, so that proves God exists. Breath, kinetic energy, and electrical activity in the brain can all be proven by science. 'Chi' cannot.

Not at all. Saying breath is qi, is not like saying trees are made by god. Its like saying another word for breath...:rolleyes:

seeing the connection with the whole language aspect coming into play?

again...CONTEXT

So saying 'Chi' is real because it is really things can be proven, is as valid an argument as the one I used above as an example of proving God exists. It's not an effective argument.

This is like saying the word 'Agua', is not the same thing as saying 'water' in english. spanish say agua for water. chinese say qi for breath....

how difficult is that go grasp?

again. I am fully with you on a lot of the bunk qi stuff. but some things i have learned are basically direct translations for words i have in english. Context is one of the most important things in being able to understand what the translation is meant to be. Everyone has different levels of belief, but some things are just direct translations, so unless you disavow any beliefe in the chinese languages, then there are just some cases where the word qi is used that you have overlooked due to this misconception.

[SifuAbel]

I thought I was on ignore. :rolleyes:I usually do ignore idiots.


I'll drop it once you do these things:

1. Admit you will not be showing up at my gym despite your threats.The future is uncertain. The day I do come to Austin, you're meat.

2. Admit 'Rashad Smith' was indeed an alias and thus neither he or his 'cuz' will be showing up at my gym.You can fear for your life. Rashad was probably an ACA troll. I have no control over them, or anyone for that matter. So wiggle your jello, boy. People ARE after you.

3. Never show up on ANY forum, other than your own, and make excuses about your loss to Anthony.**** you.

4. Never issue ANY threats or challenges to anyone on any forum other than your own forum.**** you.

5. Do not discuss me or anyone I train with on any site and remove any posts on your forum from you and/or others doing so.Not going to happen.

6. Never bring up or reference the past with me anywhere, although you can indeed debate/discuss any other threads/topics with me in a rational manner.

Deal?[/QUOTE]
This last one might fly if you do the ONE thing I ask.
God, what a douche. I ask you for one thing and you earmark this like its a bill on the senate floor. I'm asking not asking you to admit anything either. I could make a list.

The deal was and is . You take down your crap and I'll leave you alone.

[NJM]

The future is uncertain. The day I do come to Austin, you're meat.
One of these days, 1bad, one of these days... POW! Right in the centipede-filled ------



Not going to happen.

Admitting to censorship? Yikes.

[bakxierboxer]

We are having a problem getting what we are trying to say out.

I'll put it in other terms.

Things like; breath, kinetic energy, the electrical simuli that takes place within the brain, etc. ARE qi

This is where you have to find out the context in which the word qi is being used.

But you cannot get caught up on the word 'qi' in itself.

When QI is used to reference the breath. I can prove that this form of chi is real. Remember, chinese language is not english, they will not say 'breath'. They will say qi more often than not. So in this particular context, science has already proven to what extent this particular qi plays in a martial arts format.

The sticky part is finding out the context, and whether you agree with that particular usage of QI.

.......

Many times it comes down to this:

1) Language Barrier.

2) Context.


Yet Another Term/Translation for "qi" that is often (mis)used is "internal" energy.... which pretty much disregards the equally applicable "intrinsic" energy "translation"/"understanding".

[SifuAbel]

One of these days, 1bad, one of these days... POW! Right in the centipede-filled ------


Admitting to censorship? Yikes.

like 1nut, you are sticking your nose where it doesn't belong. And just wtf is up with this centipede business.

[bakxierboxer]

Again, that's like me saying Leprechaun is another name for a rabbit, so since rabbits exist thats proof Leprechauns exist.

Close, but "no cigar".
Rabbits are from the family "Leporidae"......

[bakxierboxer]

????????
If you want to make that Hyaluronic Acid.....
It's the base for Hyaluronidase, which is/was the active ingredient in Alidase, Wydase, et al.
These were used in Western Medicine to decrease post-operative swelling and bruising.
Strangely, it was orginally isolated from a TCM jow formula......


???????
Hmmmm..... seems that my memory from the 60s is getting a little spotty.

Just for the sake of "accuracy".....
Hyaluronidase catalyzes the breakdown of Hyaluronic acid.......

[David Jamieson]

Just to clear something up.

qi gong literally translates as "breath work"

so to refuse that qi=breath is incorrect. It does mean breath. BUt more in the sense of "breath of life" "breath of cosmos" and of course, just breathing.

co-ordinating breath with motion and intention is key to success in any martial art or anything that involves the full mind/body connection. HOld your breath, breath incorrectly etc and you are simply doing it wrong. :-)

and welcome to the board teet sao.

[1bad65]

One of these days, 1bad, one of these days... POW! Right in the centipede-filled ------

I'm so trembling.

Will I get mine before or after Anthony? Or ShaolinTiger00? Or Knifefighter? Or Osiris? :rolleyes:

[1bad65]

Then it stays. My deal was, if you read the conditions, to basically just stop acting a fool and I would give you what you asked for in return. I now see that is asking too much of you. :rolleyes:

[1bad65]

The future is uncertain. The day I do come to Austin, you're meat.

I'll just add that one to the list. :rolleyes:

And fyi, neither you or any moron on your joke of a board frighten me in the slightest.


like 1nut, you are sticking your nose where it doesn't belong.

Better watch out. He may e-challenge you and spew empty threats over and over. ;)

[SifuAbel]

or run around like a chicken threatening people with them coming to him. :rolleyes:

[1bad65]

And idiots like you have said they are coming. ;)

[1bad65]

or run around like a chicken threatening people with them coming to him. :rolleyes:

Pot-Kettle-Black

Again showing you have no shame.

Or cardio! :D

[SifuAbel]

And idiots like you have said they are coming. ;)

Yeah, silly us. We fell for the "I'll challenge you, but you have to come to me." ploy.

Which is not, btw, my MO. I was the one challenged by st and tony.

I'm going to remind the world on a daily basis how you were too chicken to even post your name when threatened and how you wanted me to come to Austin THEN await your info.

How you were sqwuaking for for months about me not showing then continuing on because YOU caused me to show. That is always a laugh riot.

How when your bluff was called to you shat a cyberbrick and begged off from Tom.

How you are too much of a dripping anus to travel for an MMA fight one state away, yet you want people to go 2000 miles for you. BTW, if taylor is ever in so cal give a ring. I, at least, have the patience to wait.

I'm going to post your little picture everywhere. Show the world that doofus face of yours. That should be a laugh. Oh, and for the record you need to hit the gym.

Then show them that clip of you looking like a retard in that ghey, slow mo, hamsterbation you call grappling.

I'm going to follow you exactly like you are following me now. In every post. In every forum. Until you either quit or we both get banned form this and any other forum I can get to you at. I'm going to be on you like a rash.


Do you want that? :cool:

[1bad65]

Do what you will. I could give a sh1t.

It's beyond obvious who can't let it go.

But everytime you screw with me I'll post all of your empty threats and your 1:22 until you tapped to an 'ear grind' video. :D

Act like a fu cking human being and I'll treat you like one. Or is that asking too much? :rolleyes:


And I notice AGAIN you are trying to involve Tom in your messes. I won't bite though. He has been cool to me lately, so I've been cool to him. Amazing how that works isn't it? ;)

[1bad65]

I'm going to follow you exactly like you are following me now. In every post. In every forum. Until you either quit or we both get banned form this and any other forum I can get to you at. I'm going to be on you like a rash.

You remember this the next time you whine and cry about me stalking you. :rolleyes:

And you may well follow me around the 'Net, but we all know you won't show up at my gym. :D

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

hello, i am new to the board and wanted to introduve myself. i study kung fu,kali and muay thai. i do not post much but try to learn from others posts.my main feild of study is iron skills.i hope to learn alot from you guys,and be able to contribute something worthwhile to the forum.
i am the one with hair.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSYuOr_zfYw


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqD0IecjOjk&feature=related

buy this book: john brookfield: mastery of hand strength (http://www.amazon.com/Mastery-Hand-Strength-John-Brookfield/dp/092688803X)

cheap, short, invaluable information on lower arm strength.

[teetsao]

hello all, i am new to the board..............holy cow this was the begining of all of this mess? we do have the most replies and veiws for a post though. L.O.L

[SifuAbel]

Act like a fu cking human being and I'll treat you like one. Or is that asking too much? :rolleyes:



Fine, remove your stuff and I won't bother you anymore.

[NJM]

I'm so trembling.

Will I get mine before or after Anthony? Or ShaolinTiger00? Or Knifefighter? Or Osiris? :rolleyes:

That's different. They have fetus killing powers, he won't dare mess with them.

[SifuAbel]

Sigh............ You are SO part of the problem.

[1bad65]

Fine, remove your stuff and I won't bother you anymore.

Actions speak louder than words. Considering you can't go 3 days without messing with me, pardon me if I'm sceptical. Try going a week not starting bs and I'll probably do it.

[SifuAbel]

Dude,

you're walking billboard of hypocrisy.


1bad65's Avatar
1bad65 1bad65 is online now
Still waiting on Rudy...

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,433
Quote:

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy
I'll say that I'm coming..........Sometime in the future. get ready.
I'm waiting....

Quote:
Originally Posted by SifuAbel View Post
I'll just show at your school.
As is Anthony....

I'm obsessed with you yet I seem to be your main theme in life?!?!? get rid of it.

[1bad65]

And this from the SAME POST!


Yeah, silly us. We fell for the "I'll challenge you, but you have to come to me." ploy.


BTW, if taylor is ever in so cal give a ring. I, at least, have the patience to wait.

You really are pathetic.

[1bad65]

Go a week without being a d1ck or starting sh1t and I'll take the stuff off my sig and avatar.

But if you can't go a week or you start up again after I pull it, it goes back up.

[SifuAbel]

And this from the SAME POST!

You really are pathetic.


Again, you can't seem to tell the difference between the challenger and the challenged.

[SifuAbel]

Go a week without being a d1ck or starting sh1t and I'll take the stuff off my sig and avatar.

But if you can't go a week or you start up again after I pull it, it goes back up.

LOL, what are you, My mother?

For the last time, hopefully :rolleyes:, get it though that inbreed brain of yours that what I say, do, think, act, type is absolutely none of your business. It never has been, it never will be. If I am not addressing you, its none of your concern.

You are not the ****ing thought police here. :mad:

And just to shut you up, I put it out to anyone that wants a piece of me to come claim it. I'll even travel if its convenient.

So unless you have ST00 under your armpit to come out and want a match, STFU already. I'm fully recovered now and had a match recently . Or did you forget that? And frankly, I don't think St00 or knifefighter needs a match with me anymore. Their only beef was to see me fight, I did. They're satisfied.

[SifuAbel]

You are right. I reread his post. I see your point.

Hey Rudy, please read my above message. I'm sure you're ****ed, but please try to man-up and be done with it. It no longer serves any purpose.

Peace.

Can you seriously look at that guy's avatar and how he follows me every time I turn around with his ghey tap comments and say I'm the one STARTING ****? I mean, really? I can't even comment on my own **** match without this troll chiming in with some ass gas.

Can anyone not connected to this really see it that way?

[unkokusai]

Oh, poor rudy is just a victim! He just wants to get along with everyone, that's why he's been acting like a ****ing ****bag for years and years even after getting his fat head and phantom pride broken for all the world to see.

Why oh why can't everyone just leave him alone and let him be a shameless ******* hypocrite no matter how many challenges he throws down, tombstones he posts, or ridiculously transparent excuses he makes?

Its so unfair!

[sanjuro_ronin]

Guys, no need to pollute every thread you post on with this crap.

Qi is something that many people have issues with simple because of the people that have given Qi a bad name.
For every sane and rational explantion of what Qi is or could be viewed as, there is one Jedi moving nakes chick pics with his Qi or healing people half way across the world with his Qi or getting his ass handed to him despite of his Qi.

Like so many things that are wrong in the MA, we do it to ourselves.

[1bad65]

Once again, I thought I was on ignore. Speaking of sigs, yours does say that. :rolleyes:

We've all seen who has started trouble in this thread over and over.

If you are not an attention *****, how do you explain you asking me to do something for you and then cursing at me? You're ridiculous.

We shall see if you travel, won't we. :rolleyes:

[1bad65]

And just to shut you up, I put it out to anyone that wants a piece of me to come claim it. I'll even travel if its convenient.

Since you seem to think Osiris may not it make it to you due to money issues, will you be travelling to him?

[golden arhat]

My beef is with the term "gets stronger." I don't understand why it gets stronger. I know that after you enough blocks that your knuckles don't hurt as bad. My question is more on a physiological examination level.



your knuckles literally get denser
all bones on the microscopic level are made up of little beams linking to other little beams and columns of calcium
whenever you hit your hand on something your bones break slightly a few beams crumble and move into each other closing the gaps between them and your body floods calcium to the affected areas thus making bones alot stronger and thicker

[1bad65]

While the first sentence makes sense, I disagree with this one:


whenever you hit your hand on something your bones break slightly a few beams crumble and move into each other closing the gaps between them and your body floods calcium to the affected areas thus making bones alot stronger and thicker

The benefits of some erroneous iron palm training exercises, such as intentionally breaking bones do nothing but weaken the original structure, and should be cast off as ignorant and not worth the risk to the practitioner.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Palm

[sanjuro_ronin]

The benefits of some erroneous iron palm training exercises, such as intentionally breaking bones do nothing but weaken the original structure, and should be cast off as ignorant and not worth the risk to the practitioner.

Quite correct.

[bodhitree]

where is future castleva at a time like this (older ORA crew members will know what I'm talking about)

[golden arhat]

While the first sentence makes sense, I disagree with this one:



The benefits of some erroneous iron palm training exercises, such as intentionally breaking bones do nothing but weaken the original structure, and should be cast off as ignorant and not worth the risk to the practitioner.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Palm

i never said breaking your fingers

what i meant was that each time u hit things with your finger they "slightly break" at the microscopic level
forcing your bones to become denser as they heal

i'm not tlaking about snapping a finger

it's called wolf's law

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yENNqRJ2mu0

[1bad65]

I still don't buy the assertion that breaking a bone, even a small break, will strengthen it.

Also there should be some scientific proof out there of these microscopic breaks. And it would also show if the part broken was actually stronger, assuming it's true of course.

[MasterKiller]

I still don't buy the assertion that breaking a bone, even a small break, will strengthen it.

Also there should be some scientific proof out there of these microscopic breaks. And it would also show if the part broken was actually stronger, assuming it's true of course.

Tennis and basball players tend to have thicker bones in the arm he/she uses for hitting the ball.

Scientists aren't exactly sure what encourages bones to thicken up, but it appears that bones respond either to large forces placed on them by muscle and tendons or to compression forces created during activity.

I don't think 'micro-fractures' have anything to do with it.

[1bad65]

Thicker does not always mean stronger.

The thicker bone may be less dense for example.

[1bad65]

I don't think 'micro-fractures' have anything to do with it.

I agree with you there.

I also still do not think that even if you have these 'micro-fractures' it strengthens the bone.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I also still do not think that even if you have these 'micro-fractures' it strengthens the bone.

Reply]
This is along the lines of thought that micro tears in muscles from weight lifting makes them heal stronger too. I am not convinced that actually happens in anything but the most severe training sessions myself.

I think if the body is stressed it responds by adapting and over coming the stress. I don't believe micro damage must first occur for this to happen.

[Lucas]

Classic case of isolated bone density;

English/Welsh Longbowmen. Though the English did take the bow to a whole new extreme once adopted from the Welsh

The (more often than not) right side of the archers body, over a lifetime of practice, had a thicker bone density as well as musclular development. (edit: Upperbody of course.)

It was required by law that every boy begin archery at a young age, and every village was required to practice every sunday at specified locations for this purpose. Only from starting from a young age and developing the body soley around the purpose of the longbow, is one able to effectively weild these types of bows.

160lbs of draw weight. VERY difficult for a normal person to draw. Let alone draw fully and still have any form of accuracy.

Same idea applys to any type of IP training. Any conditioning of a specialized nature for that matter.

The human body adapts. Or it breaks. One or the other.

[1bad65]

Lucas makes a good point and uses a good example.

I agree that if you do an activity like archery the muscles will get stronger over time (not 100% sure on the bones though). But archery is what I would call a 'non-destrutive' way to do that. Actually striking something is a 'destructive' activity. That's why boxers wrap their hands for example. Even a guy who has boxed for decades will still wrap his hands when doing heavy bag work. And he will have hit heavy bags for decades, but he still has to wrap his hands to protect them.

[1bad65]

The human body adapts. Or it breaks. One or the other.

But golden_arhat says it does both.

That's one reason this topic is so interesting. Even those who draw the same conclusion have a different way to explain how it occurs.

[Lucas]

Ive never trained or researched in depth on IP training.

I do know that I can hit things about twice as hard with my right hand as I can with my left hand.

The only thing that could have made this the case is the fact that I often hit wood/metal/any hard surface on a regular basis. More so with my right hand, because im right handed.

I do hit stuff with my left more to try and bring it up to speed. But I do not do any formal IP training.

Ive thought about it, but I have not had the opportunity to have a teacher, and this is not something I want to teach myself, as errors are ir reversable.

Now to the degree of adaption I am unsure. It could be thought that by breaking the body down by small fractions, its adaption overcomes the breakdown and is the dominant role, IF performed correctly over prolonged periods.

I am not knowledgeable on this process however.

[golden arhat]

if the bone has a micro fracture and the body responds by sending calcium to the affected area
that means there is more bone yes ? the broken stuff is still there except all the hollow spaces in the original structure have been filled out

whats stronger ? a hollow cylyndrical wooden pipe ? or a tree trunk ?

they even said it, smashing bricks like that would break any normal persons hand
so there must have been a change in the breaker's hands

that change is called wolf's law

and it explains why their hands dont break bcause they are "stronger" if they werent
they would have broken fingers

simple

[1bad65]

But why did the bone have those spaces in the first places?

One thing I would be interested in are how the older guys, say 60s and up, who did this for decades are doing.

Like pro wrestlers look like monsters. Thay are huge and obviously have trained their bodies to take abuse. But I read in SI that Davey Boy Smith took like an hour just to get out of bed in his 30s because his body, although tough and strong, was just broken down. The IP guys have abused their hands for years so I wonder if their hands just break down.

[sanjuro_ronin]

But why did the bone have those spaces in the first places?

One thing I would be interested in are how the older guys, say 60s and up, who did this for decades are doing.

Like pro wrestlers look like monsters. Thay are huge and obviously have trained their bodies to take abuse. But I read in SI that Davey Boy Smith took like an hour just to get out of bed in his 30s because his body, although tough and strong, was just broken down. The IP guys have abused their hands for years so I wonder if their hands just break down.

I know a few IP guys that are older and they are fine and even many of the Japanese Makiwara abusers are just fine, though some are not.
It is usually a case of some people thinking that more is better and also the case of some people being predisposed to certain conditions more thna others.

Davey Bot abused steroids and his body to the extreme.

[1bad65]

I know a few IP guys that are older and they are fine and even many of the Japanese Makiwara abusers are just fine, though some are not.

And not all pro wrestlers are crippled either. But some are, and it can be traced to the abuse they did to their bodies wrestling. And some of those wrestlers never used steroids.


Davey Bot abused steroids and his body to the extreme.

I would think that causing breaks (even small ones) in your hands over and over would be considered extreme abuse of your hands.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I would think that causing breaks (even small ones) in your hands over and over would be considered extreme abuse of your hands.
Micro-fractures are common in may workplaces also, peple that use jackhammers for example.
Even boxing has them even with gloves, if you were to x-ray the hand of a boxer than has been boxing for 10 years ( as an example) and compare it to a normal persons, you would see a difference.

You put your body through stress it will show the signs and it will adapt.

Again, I don't know how much you know about IP training, but it is "low impact" compared to boxing for example.
You may find that hard to believe, but its true, I know my hands feel more "stressed" after a typical bag workout than after TAPPING the Ip bag for 30 mins.

[banditshaw]

The IP guys have abused their hands for years so I wonder if their hands just break down.

Isn't that what Dit Da Jow is for to heal the hands after IP practice?

I have heard that it does indeed help more when used than not.

[SifuAbel]

Once again, I thought I was on ignore. Speaking of sigs, yours does say that. :rolleyes:

We've all seen who has started trouble in this thread over and over.

If you are not an attention *****, how do you explain you asking me to do something for you and then cursing at me? You're ridiculous.

We shall see if you travel, won't we. :rolleyes:

In this thread? Thats an insult to the intelligence of the posters here, sport. You want to be the odd cock about it, fine. Here it comes.

You have a choice. Don't bother me, or, be ready to have me on you like rash.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Isn't that what Dit Da Jow is for to heal the hands after IP practice?

I have heard that it does indeed help more when used than not.

The difference is quite astounding, I was very surprised when I used it and I use it all the time now, not just after IP , but my bag workouts too.
I had a nasty bruise on my shin from a stick, it was gone in a couple of days with it and the pain was gone the next day.

[1bad65]

Do what you will. I could give a sh1t.

Watching you follow me around Bullshido will be quite entertaining though. :D

And yet again the thread was on topic until your punk ass showed up to act a fool.

[1bad65]

The jow may well help in healing the skin and bruising, but does it really help any bone damage that may occur?

[sanjuro_ronin]

The jow may well help in healing the skin and bruising, but does it really help any bone damage that may occur?

Do you remember the bare foot runner analogy I gave you?
You are really focusing on the damage like it is some serious major one, micro fractures dude.
And yes, it is suppose to help with that too and no, I don't know for sure if it does.