Hung Gar

[Laukarbo]

The pad one was nice.
Beginner drills I assume, yes?

yes,this is to practise the single strikes
we have more drills with combinations etc.
we also have a drill against multiple attackers that hold
different pads ,mits etc....

[Drake]

I likes it!

[David Jamieson]

Not a big fan of the "defensive drilling" one myself, he tends to reach for his blocks way too much, a "curse" of that particular drill.
The pad one was nice.
Beginner drills I assume, yes?


people that are starting with shielding defensive strategies, inevitably reach for the incoming instead of closing the gates. It is common and goes away with practice. I've seen it with pretty much everyone I ever practiced with and used to do it myself. :)

[BruiserBrody]

Way back when, I read a description of Hung Gar being a simplified variation of Tiger Style. From what I see today, this is an over simplified explanation of the system. Can someone give me a brief explanation of the offense, defense and combative theory of hung gar?

[TenTigers]

Simplified? Where on earth have you been getting your info from?
Hung-Ga is an amalgamation of many Siu-Lum disciplines. Tiger is emphasized, but the five animals, five elements, long and short bridges, hei-gung, etc make Hung-Ga an extremely vast system.
On a base level, it is a powerful system that seeks to blast into the opponent, overwhelming him with barrages of full power,, full body strikes. Each strike is considered a major blow, but come in rapid-fire succession. Once a Hung-Ga fighter engages his opponent, he is committed to the end, crowding him, smothering him with blows, and does not disengage until the opponent is downed.
Later, higher level techniques are introduced, such as bridge sensitivity, subtle angles, different qualities of energy, short bridging techniques, running, trapping, sticking hands, specialized hand formations designed to deliver strikes with pinpoint accuracy to vital areas, joint locks, breaks, throws, etc.
Hung-Ga is not simplified anything.

[BruiserBrody]

Simplified? Where on earth have you been getting your info from?
.

It was something a read a decade ago in a magazine and the mags are never known for their accuracy

[David Jamieson]

-approach rapidly / step strong and quick
-cross the bridge / contact-stick-dominate
-fight from the inside / kill power-keep a shield-strike hard (no waiting just get in there)
-be relentless / don't stop

very abridged but covers some of the main idea behind the black tiger i learned, which is a Hung system.

[PM]

TT, very good conceise description, i like it!

[banditshaw]

Agreed Ten. Sums it up nicely.
They say the understanding of the 12 bridges comes later. But when do you first utilize the concepts? Gung Gee?

[TenTigers]

Well, If you want to put it into terms,you could say I start with Bik. With Gong, Jik,Jai,. Crashing the gates and getting in there,crowding, immobilizing. Later, I add more softness, (yau,wan))yielding,running,leaking hands.(chuen)is added during this. Then variations of direction, but not taught as bridges, but within sensitivity and feeling, everything comes together.
At that point, it isn't about this bridge or that bridge. A hand is met, and whatever reaction is spontaneous, dependiing on the energy given. To talk of different bridges at that point is unneccesary. The twelve bridges is an attempt to put into words, what would be felt and understood through hands on, direct transmission from Sifu to student. In most cases, people who go on about the twelve bridges are usually pontificating.

[DimMok]

I know This is an old thread but perhaps I can shed some light on this subject and kind of expand on what Mr. Hung Wei Lo has already added. First I would just like to say that, I have never spoken with or met Chong Oi Mon or anyone from the Chong clan but I have trained and spoken with several CKKA senior members.

The CKKA was first made up of mostly 2 Chong brothers and a couple of cousins that trained in both Karate and Kung Fu, located in Toronto’s China Town with Karate being more popular at the time. They did not feel like any style was better than the other and felt that all fighting styles had something to learn from. They also studied modern westernized boxing of the time, fighters like Muhammad Ali, which they would not be exposed to if they all still lived in China. They had a love of all the fighting styles. The way I see it, to teach Karate and Kung Fu in the late 50s early 60s, isn’t this called Mixed Martial Arts today or MMA? Don’t all Asian martial arts originate in China anyway? So basically all martial arts is Kung Fu? I guess the CKKA was also ahead of its time being the original mixed martial art (MMA) schools back in the early 60s, teaching Kung Fu before most of the western world even knew about martial arts, Shaolin, Kung Fu, Bruce Lee, the internet and let alone before any Kung Fu magazines.

They have many schools around the world affiliated with them, 30 just on the site alone. They teach karate first then slowly introduce Kung Fu for later belts, If so desired. With a wide arrange of intricate Kung Fu forms including 5 animals, self defences and weapons with over a 50 year history and perhaps tens of thousands of students around the world. This is no flash in the pan jumping on the new trend association. Lam Sai Wing had 10s if not hundreds of students, how Chong Oi Mun and the Chong clan knew one of them or met one of his students is not really a big deal nor is it entirely impossible in the time when China had tried to stop Kung Fu practitioners. Some escaped to Hong Kong others to North America.

The forms, the number of students and schools speak for themselves. It is only now that people are really starting to appreciate the true beauty of Kung Fu forms, weapons and history, still trying to question things like the CKKA lineage that has been around for over half a century with over 2000 years in the making.

[David Jamieson]

well, so why bother making up a lineage that alludes to putting you on par with some top players of the style?

no gallery, no dissertation on the style, glaring errors and the oldest kungfu school in Toronto that publically taught non Chinese is Hong Luk and they were operating since 1961. Not these guys.

a bunch of good intention amounts to nothing really. especially when you are slapping other people who actually did the work in the face.

If one says they understand something, then they should be able to demonstrate that.,

so far, in regards to this group, that is simply not so.

what they train may be alright and fine, but the story they prop it up with is wrong.

This is like a Shaolin Do imposter thing but in a smaller bubble and effecting way less people.

[DimMok]

A fellow Canuck, then I guess you should find these links quite interesting

http://www.canadianblackbelthalloffame.com/chong.html

http://www.canadianblackbelthalloffame.com/chan.html

I am not here to argue or anything but Hong luck only has maybe a couple schools affiliated with them after so many years since 1961. As I live in the Toronto area and know this for a fact and even been to Hong Luck and can correctly spell its name right.

While the CKKA was around late 50s early 60s and has over 30 schools affiliated with them just on the site alone.

The numbers speak for themselves. You want pictures and a Gallery? Ask the Website manager, perhaps its under construction?

I have a better idea, why don’t you go check out a school and see for yourself. There is at least a school in every province.

As for the lineage I did not make it. It is probably just a guide line if anything. The only one that can answer that is the Chong’s themselves.

I am not here to put down any schools. Nor am I here to really defend a school. I am just trying to say that If you really don’t know anything about something, why bother trying to put it down, especially on the internet. My advise to those people is get off the computer and stop being an arm chair Kung Fu Master. Go to the school your interested in ask them Questions.

Kung Fu is not on the internet nor is it in a magazine It is a verb a doing word.

[lkfmdc]

While the CKKA was around late 50s early 60s and has over 30 schools affiliated with them just on the site alone.

The numbers speak for themselves.


numbers mean two things, one is "jack" and the other is "****"

I can point you to outright fraud operations and cults that have tons of schools and thousands of brainwashed followers




I am not here to put down any schools.



nah! you aren't putting down any schools by changing lineages to try and "downgrade" respect masters, no way :rolleyes:

[banditshaw]

***in response to Dim Mok***
This is a discussion forum right?
It's ok to discuss these things. As long as there is no disrespect then it's ok.
Everyone has an opinion and should feel free to express that.
Somebody who's reading might have some really good info regarding the subject. It's not always possible to just show up at the school and ask questions.
But I understand where you are coming from... there are far too many armchair internet warriors.
But the issue of placing certain names in an certain order understandably could ruffle some feathers. It's not the first or last time it will happen.

[DimMok]

in response to lkfmdc

I must have hurt an arm chair warrior being that you have almost 10 000 posts

5 links on your page and a DVD for sale wtf???

you should know more about fraud than anyone

[lkfmdc]

wow, a guy who wears silk pj's and pretends he is fighting with swords talking tough from behind an keyboard, what a unique thing :rolleyes:

if by armchair you mean actuall lei tai, ring and cage fights.... yawn :rolleyes:

sorry your ***** got sand in it, here's brush, clean it out and then rub in some oil

[David Jamieson]

A fellow Canuck, then I guess you should find these links quite interesting

http://www.canadianblackbelthalloffame.com/chong.html

http://www.canadianblackbelthalloffame.com/chan.html

I am not here to argue or anything but Hong luck only has maybe a couple schools affiliated with them after so many years since 1961. As I live in the Toronto area and know this for a fact and even been to Hong Luck and can correctly spell its name right.

While the CKKA was around late 50s early 60s and has over 30 schools affiliated with them just on the site alone.

The numbers speak for themselves. You want pictures and a Gallery? Ask the Website manager, perhaps its under construction?

I have a better idea, why don’t you go check out a school and see for yourself. There is at least a school in every province.

As for the lineage I did not make it. It is probably just a guide line if anything. The only one that can answer that is the Chong’s themselves.

I am not here to put down any schools. Nor am I here to really defend a school. I am just trying to say that If you really don’t know anything about something, why bother trying to put it down, especially on the internet. My advise to those people is get off the computer and stop being an arm chair Kung Fu Master. Go to the school your interested in ask them Questions.

Kung Fu is not on the internet nor is it in a magazine It is a verb a doing word.

You're doing fine defending them though...lol.

I wouldn't. YOu can't put yourself on par with Kong and Wong and then just sit back and not expect anyone to question that. Kong and Wong both have a long and storied lineage and background whereas these guys are virtually unknown.

in any lineage, it's not about being one of thousands of people who went to a club at some time or another, it's about being legitimized as an instructor of that family line.

so, if they make these glaring errors in their telling of what is Hung Gar, then place in a previously unknown student of LSW, then attach themselves to said student and put themselves on par with a couple of really well known practitioners

...well, I think the internet does a lot of service here inasmuch as it allows us to speak directly with current students of said masters.

So, having said all that, the sky is up, the ground is down and the onus is on these guys to PROVE their claims to the rest of the Hung Kuen world, or Step Off and tell what's up with what they are teaching.

If it's good on it's own, why try to attach to Hung Gar lineages that already exist and are very well documented?

[punchdrunk]

I have met different teachers and students from this lineage, when I first saw them at tournaments I thought they were karateka as most of them do karate forms and Japanese weapons as well. Later at a demo I read their lineage and asked the assistant intructor iif they were Hung Gar to which he replied "no we are shaolin 5 animal style." Again I asked "5 animals from Hung gar?" to which he gave a puzzled "no we are shaolin 5 animal style." At the tournaments i have seen they do typical karate style point sparring (like tag) but I can't comment on their abilities as I never trained or fought with them, they are very popular in Southern Ontario in Canada. With so many schools their skill levels probably vary quite a bit.

[DimMok]

lkfmdc I think you took too many punches to the head.

I must of hit you where it hurts. Your the one talking how tough you are Mr. Cage Fighter.

If you read properly you would notice that I have been to many schools and have trained with the CKKA which is linked to many many schools around the world.
Which means I just don't do Kung Fu. I am a student of traditional and Modern Fighting styles MMA.

Yes I occasionally wear pjs but they are more cottony not silk as well as a karate gi, muay thai shorts and yes I some times wield swords including many other weapons. Would you like to learn something??

I also do full contact fighting whether it is in a cage or a ring. I would challenge you but your probably an overweight shlub with the amount of time you spend on the internet and are probably out of my weight class anyway. You sound like you have short man syndrome.

I did not come here to start things with anyone I just wanted to comment on certain things

Talking how tough you are on a martial arts forum how original

I was wondering about your DVDs If I use code "VFQ6DNH6" can I truly get $15 off??

Buddy your hurting.

[lkfmdc]

I will quote you and demonstrate beyond a shadow of a doubt you are a clown




The way I see it, to teach Karate and Kung Fu in the late 50s early 60s, isn’t this called Mixed Martial Arts today or MMA?



NO, it's called being a karate person and mixing in some kung fu .....




Don’t all Asian martial arts originate in China anyway? So basically all martial arts is Kung Fu?



LMFAO @ you, that is an old and tired out cliche... NO, all martial arts did not originate in China :rolleyes:




They have many schools around the world affiliated with them, 30 just on the site alone.



which means NOTHING other than the fact that people are easily con'ed

there are plenty of frauds and cults with tons of members :rolleyes:




They teach karate first then slowly introduce Kung Fu for later belts,



a "kung fu school" that teaches karate first :rolleyes:

From now on, we will refer to you as "Dim Wit" :rolleyes:

[lkfmdc]

I would challenge you



this is always followed by




but



*******s and "buts", they always seem to go together :rolleyes:

[lkfmdc]

I have met different teachers and students from this lineage, when I first saw them at tournaments I thought they were karateka as most of them do karate forms and Japanese weapons as well.



Seems they ARE karateka! That's what they teach even according to "Dim Wit"




Later at a demo I read their lineage and asked the assistant intructor iif they were Hung Gar to which he replied "no we are shaolin 5 animal style." Again I asked "5 animals from Hung gar?" to which he gave a puzzled "no we are shaolin 5 animal style."



More strong evidence pointing to the fact they are yet another sham pseudo kung fu chain :rolleyes:





At the tournaments i have seen they do typical karate style point sparring (like tag)


teh d3adly :rolleyes:

[hskwarrior]

do you think that the Spartans were really Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut disciples? i like that!!!! :D

[hskwarrior]

can somebody explain this to me? :confused:

"teh d3adly"

[DimMok]

Once again people can not read properly

I Said Asian martial arts pertaining to Asia there is also a question mark at the end,
which could imply other things. Hooked On Phonics anyone?

wow lkfmdc I never seen so much anger in a barrage of posts before. I must of hit the nail right on your head.lol

CKKA half a century of Cults?? Fraud?? Where did this all come from??

The internets is truly a scary place

Good luck with the DVDs

[lkfmdc]

First, congratulations, I just opened a "MABS" thread on bullshido about your school so people can dig into it more.

Second, it's hysterical that you don't realize what a clown you are, talking about your "kung fu school" where they do karate kata and japanese weapons and "start out with karate"

And your only point, which you try to hammer again and again, is that they have a lot of students. YES, there are tons of fraud school that have tons of student

YES, there are tons of fraud schools that have been around for YEARS. In fact, that they began at a time when the public didn't know any better is MORE EVIDENCE that something is rotten there

[hskwarrior]

woooogieee boooogieeeee: :D:D:D

[DimMok]

lkfmdc

oh no dear god please don't report me to the martial arts police.

go ahead keep flapping your face and quoting things out of context

what?? you belong to more forums?? wow if you only put that time into peddling your dvds you would probably get some where

Im sure all the members of the CKKA after 50 years are shaking in there silk pjs

Im tired of talking to haters

I think its just jealousy I dont know why some people would get all upset to this degree about another persons school.

well good luck and I hope you find what your looking for.

[lkfmdc]

Dimwit

please read S L O W LY

you are an idiot, and your posts are more than enough evidence to prove that fact

go back to your karate mish mash and keep telling yourself "it's all ok, really it is, because gosh darn it we have so many students"

the rest of the world sees you for what you are.....

[IronWeasel]

lkfmdc

oh no dear god please don't report me to the martial arts police.

go ahead keep flapping your face and quoting things out of context

what?? you belong to more forums?? wow if you only put that time into peddling your dvds you would probably get some where

Im sure all the members of the CKKA after 50 years are shaking in there silk pjs

Im tired of talking to haters

I think its just jealousy I dont know why some people would get all upset to this degree about another persons school.

well good luck and I hope you find what your looking for.




This writing style...


...somehow familiar. Hmmmm...

[lkfmdc]

This writing style...


...somehow familiar. Hmmmm...

maybe just indication of how retarded trolls post? :D

[Violent Designs]

first, congratulations, i just opened a "mabs" thread on bullshido about your school so people can dig into it more.

Second, it's hysterical that you don't realize what a clown you are, talking about your "kung fu school" where they do karate kata and japanese weapons and "start out with karate"

and your only point, which you try to hammer again and again, is that they have a lot of students. Yes, there are tons of fraud school that have tons of student

yes, there are tons of fraud schools that have been around for years. In fact, that they began at a time when the public didn't know any better is more evidence that something is rotten there

bullshido link plz.

[lkfmdc]

bullshido link plz.

so far, no bites....

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=84705

[DimMok]

Wow the name calling is really getting out of hand here. What is this grade school?

Being that it is a Kung Fu forum I thought it would be more civilized where people were more respectful of one another.

Thank you guys for the warm welcome especially you Mr. lkfmdc. My first posts here and already I have quite a following, I am deeply honoured.

I dug up an old thread and now this argument has reached multiple forum status.
Why don’t you put it on every forum you belong to and see where that goes?

With all the forums you belong to and post on buddy. I’m pretty sure people have said this to you before. You need to get a life.

Seriously Mr. Lfmdc I’m sorry if all those things I said about you being a shlub and all were true and that you hate me now with so much passion you cant sleep at nights.

Do I have to register on multiple forums now to continue to have this argument with you??

And who are you to call other schools Mc dojos? You practically wish your school was a Mc dojo

Don’t worry I will buy one of your Mc Dvds from your jumping On the band wagon wanna be Mc MMA school.

I know you have a basement full and I wont even get the $15 off, I will pay full price.

Good luck hater

[David Jamieson]

lkfmdc

oh no dear god please don't report me to the martial arts police.

go ahead keep flapping your face and quoting things out of context

what?? you belong to more forums?? wow if you only put that time into peddling your dvds you would probably get some where

Im sure all the members of the CKKA after 50 years are shaking in there silk pjs

Im tired of talking to haters

I think its just jealousy I dont know why some people would get all upset to this degree about another persons school.

well good luck and I hope you find what your looking for.

well, i don't take issue with a school. Martial arts is an unregulated industry and anybody can offer and teach what they like. However, it is not cool to associate oneself with an established clan when they are not actually part of that clan, have never been invested into that clan and have no right making claim to the materials of that clan.

So, if the Chong's have a viable system of martial arts that they created and systematized and now teach and propagate, that's fine. Call it what it is that's all.

Dave can be abrasive, but if you want to shut him up, then put up the propers and that will be that.

In the meantime, that lineage chart is a huge insult as it sits at this time.

[Tid Sin]

As previously mentioned by other posters, the lineage chart is inaccurate & incorrect, as far as the Lam Gar lineage is indicated. Anyone involved in Cantonese Hung Kuen would know the flow of the chart to be incorrect. Thus, it is undoubtedly obvious that whomever put the lineage chart together is not involved in Cantonese Hung Kuen. It was probably assumed that nobody in Canada practiced Hung Kuen and, furthermore, that nobody who did so would come across the chart. Such is not the case.

It should either be amended or removed altogether. Its existence as it stands today only propogates false info and claims about an authentic & verifiable Hung Gar line.

The Chong line has a right to exist & operate, as does anybody else. People will join & follow whomever they choose. Caveat emptor.

Any group can put anything down online, but can anything be verified? Proof? If a link to Li Sai Wing (whomever that is with the Mandarin "Li" surname and Cantonese "Sai Wing" names) is claimed, so be it. At this point, his existence cannot be refuted. Nor can it be confirmed.

However, the Lam Gar should be left out of it, as it has nothing to do with the CKKA. Is Lam Jo aware of what's falsely written about his family on the lineage chart? From Lam Jo onwards to the other Sifus of the Lam Gar, do any of them even know anything about the CKKA? Do they have any get-togethers and share the same gung fu? I wonder if they'd be willing to meet members of the Lam Gar and present their lineage chart as it is and stand by their claims?

If the info is inaccurate, then it would seem that the only reason for it having been included was to mislead potential and current members by seeking recognition through association with an already long-established & reputable family line, albeit unbeknownst to them.

After all of that, nothing's going to change :cool:

[TenTigers]

knowing the way some pseudo-Kung-Fu people operate, it would not surprise me in the least if they wrote Li Sai-Wing, not realizing that Sai-Wing is not the surname, but Lam. I have seen this happen with people stating Hung-Ga was named after Wong Fei-Hung.:rolleyes:
I hope I am incorrect in this.

[lkfmdc]

And who are you to call other schools Mc dojos? You practically wish your school was a Mc dojo

Don’t worry I will buy one of your Mc Dvds from your jumping On the band wagon wanna be Mc MMA school.



I'm sending you a dollar so you can buy a clue :rolleyes:

LMFAO @ calling me a McDojo

I have a student who is a pro MMA fighter, just fought last weekend in Atlantic City for Lou Neglia's "Ring of Combat" - www.ringofcombat.com

I have a student who is the USKBA NATIONAL Muay Thai champion

I've had three world champs in San Da, 19 national champions

I currently have 25 active amateur fighters

Ask masterkiller, winterpalm, lama pai sifu, or a ton of others who have been in my gym - if I"m a mcdojo then the Russian tea room serves fries :rolleyes:

LMFAO @ this pathetic loser

[lkfmdc]

Funny how everyone but "dim wit" understands what is going on here :rolleyes:




However, it is not cool to associate oneself with an established clan when they are not actually part of that clan, have never been invested into that clan and have no right making claim to the materials of that clan.

So, if the Chong's have a viable system of martial arts that they created and systematized and now teach and propagate, that's fine. Call it what it is that's all.

Dave can be abrasive, but if you want to shut him up, then put up the propers and that will be that.

In the meantime, that lineage chart is a huge insult as it sits at this time.

and




As previously mentioned by other posters, the lineage chart is inaccurate & incorrect, as far as the Lam Gar lineage is indicated. Anyone involved in Cantonese Hung Kuen would know the flow of the chart to be incorrect. Thus, it is undoubtedly obvious that whomever put the lineage chart together is not involved in Cantonese Hung Kuen. It was probably assumed that nobody in Canada practiced Hung Kuen and, furthermore, that nobody who did so would come across the chart. Such is not the case.

It should either be amended or removed altogether. Its existence as it stands today only propogates false info and claims about an authentic & verifiable Hung Gar line.

(snip)

If the info is inaccurate, then it would seem that the only reason for it having been included was to mislead potential and current members by seeking recognition through association with an already long-established & reputable family line, albeit unbeknownst to them.



Apparently "dim wit" can't figure the above out

[Tid Sin]

...I have seen this happen with people stating Hung-Ga was named after Wong Fei-Hung.:rolleyes:


You mean it isn't?!? :eek: :p ;)

[lkfmdc]

You mean it isn't?!? :eek: :p ;)

it was named after the famos Cantonese playboy So Well-Hung :D

[hskwarrior]

Nah, thats my Korean name and you got it wrong.......:mad:

SO DAM HUNG:D........get it right!!!!:mad:

My Chinese name is Hung So Lo .......and i'm proud to be Hung (洪) ;) :p :D

[CLFNole]

You forgot the Japanese samuari with 1 nut called Swung Too Lo.

[Tid Sin]

Yeah........and Harrison Ford should get rid of Ally McBeal and go Hand Solo ;)

William Hung? "She bangs, she bangs..." :)

[lkfmdc]

this just in!

EXCLUSIVE!

the real name of "dim wit"'s sifu

Sum Ting Wong

:D

[htowndragon]

no dude, he lineage jumped. His real sifu was Sum Ho, Sum Ting Wong's student.

Except Sum Ho wouldn't even claim him, so that's pretty sad.

[lkfmdc]

no, no, no

his teacher is the son of Sum Dum Ho.....

[TenTigers]

I believe Sum Dum Ho's student was Doo Me Nao, who taught Hu Flung Dung. The system migrated to Viet Nam and was later taught by Suc Muc Dik.
This style then was brought to Okinawa. One of their weapon sets, Yo Mamma Bo Kata is still practiced today.

[lkfmdc]

I believe Sum Dum Ho's student was Doo Me Nao, who taught Hu Flung Dung. The system migrated to Viet Nam and was later taught by Suc Muc Dik.
This style then was brought to Okinawa. One of their weapon sets, Yo Mamma Bo Kata is still practiced today.

I thought the kata in rememberance of the Chinese master was still called

Yo Mamma So Dum Shi

[hskwarrior]

Hey, NO BS, literally, my supervisor's name was Fine Ho!!!!!!!!

NO BS!!!!!!!

[lkfmdc]

it may be politically charged to discuss this, but we all already know that Sum Dum HO was slapped in the face by Long Duck Dong

[hskwarrior]

Still, there is no better name than:

PHUC NGO

I wonder if his sisters name was Phuc Yu, and his brother was Phuc Me

[hskwarrior]

Long Duk Dong was a disciple of Long Dong Jeung, and learned the Long Dong Jeung Qi Gong form, handed down from Dai Long Dong Himself!!!!

[lkfmdc]

Sum Dum HO was slapped in the face by Long Duck Dong, afterwards he knew Sum Ting Wong so he asked Hu Da Fuk knows the greased palm

[Violent Designs]

Still, there is no better name than:

PHUC NGO

I wonder if his sisters name was Phuc Yu, and his brother was Phuc Me

I would phuking rep you for this if this forum had a rep system.

[punchdrunk]

judge for yourself...
1) karate kung fu? www.youtube.com/watch?v=quCdrnHjCVY&feature=channel
2) kung fu? www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBtUszVMIj4

Not all the schools have the same curriculum, I'd like to know if any of the schools identify themselves with Hung Gar or are taught a Hung curriculum. I think they should do what they want in their schools but should amend their lineage chart as it is incorrect. Maybe their students should do more research and homework.

[taai gihk yahn]

judge for yourself...
1) karate kung fu? www.youtube.com/watch?v=quCdrnHjCVY&feature=channel
total crap


2) kung fu? www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBtUszVMIj4
beyond total crap


Not all the schools have the same curriculum, I'd like to know if any of the schools identify themselves with Hung Gar or are taught a Hung curriculum. I think they should do what they want in their schools but should amend their lineage chart as it is incorrect. Maybe their students should do more research and homework.
living Hung Kyuhn sifu in China would be twitching and the dead ones would be rolling in their graves if anyone has the audacity to identify that garbage with anything relating to Hung, or Siu Lum, or anything at all relted to TCMA; pure unmitigated drivel

I hope I am not being obtuse regarding my opinion...

[IronWeasel]

judge for yourself...
1) karate kung fu? www.youtube.com/watch?v=quCdrnHjCVY&feature=channel
2) kung fu? www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBtUszVMIj4

Not all the schools have the same curriculum, I'd like to know if any of the schools identify themselves with Hung Gar or are taught a Hung curriculum. I think they should do what they want in their schools but should amend their lineage chart as it is incorrect. Maybe their students should do more research and homework.


Jeez...:eek:

The side kick was worth watching the vid for. I thought those were warm up kicks to establish distance or something...but those were ACTUAL attempts to break the boards!:p

[TenTigers]

"EE-YAI-EEE?" is that a question?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqKTlJU8JM8&feature=related

[lkfmdc]

"EE-YAI-EEE?" is that a question?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqKTlJU8JM8&feature=related


that's goju (badly done goju, but goju) :confused:

[taai gihk yahn]

"EE-YAI-EEE?" is that a question?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqKTlJU8JM8&feature=related

I thought at the start he was about to say "Yoiks, and away (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMNnZ5TRHsM)!"

[David Jamieson]

ok then....*backs away slowly*

[David Jamieson]

A fellow Canuck, then I guess you should find these links quite interesting

http://www.canadianblackbelthalloffame.com/chong.html

http://www.canadianblackbelthalloffame.com/chan.html

*snip*

No offense man, but that site has as much credibility as a klik sandwich at a kosher picnic.

It's meaningless and about as official as an A&W World Police teenburger badge.

[Tid Sin]

It's meaningless and about as official as an A&W World Police teenburger badge.

Perhaps, but the Grandpa burger's badge is TOTALLY legit, so watch it, Shhhonnnyyy <shaking dentures>. And hold the onions, please :)

[punchdrunk]

What I can't help but wonder is do the students ever look up the history of their forms, style, instructors? One days research on friggin youtube and they should see how different they are from everyone else in their "lineage". I've seen similar things with Wing Chun but now with so much revealed on the net people shouldn't be so easily duped anymore.

This organisation has had literally thousands of students, I hope in the future if a student google's CKKA or Canadian Kung-fu Karate that this thread pops up and makes them question their authenticity.

Here's a clue ... if you have WONG FEI HUNG in your lineage chart you should be doing HUNG GAR. The asian language you should use in class is CHINESE (Cantonese or Mandarin), not Japanese, you should have a SIFU not a sensei.


Now with the internet people can check their curriculums against those of other Hung Gar schools and even check their forms to see if they basically match up with others.

BTW thanx for posting about this on bullshido, the more it's out there the less people they dupe.

[Asmo]

You know, the sad thing is, there are promising young guys & gals who enter such schools, invest a lot of time and energy (and money) in such a place. And then sometime later, most often MUCH later, they find out what they have been doing all this time.

We all know over 95% is just doing this recreational, but for those few who are promising and talented it is a waste of time. And they will feel VERY cheated when they find out how it is working. The recreational students I don't care much about, they probably get exactly what they want & need, but those few students who will dedicate themselves to the arts we really need to uphold the roots, values and everything else traditional martial arts stand for.

With this post I'm not picking on any school in particular, but I agree with some posts made above. Just wanted to say teachers have responsibilities to promising students. But hey, they might even believe their own story over time.

[ngokfei]

I'd have to agree that the majority o individuals training are hobbiest and really couldn't care less about all the history/lineage stuff.

The really dedicated students have to develope a hard skin. On their path they will run into many charlatans and sadly will be duped outof their $$ and time.

This fantasy of finding 1 teacher who has it all is a myth. Tell me of one "famous" individual who had only one teacher in their entire life.

[Asmo]

Sons in the lineages of Lam and Chiu. Probably others :)

[TenTigers]

everybody I meet is my teacher.

[Asmo]

Sure but with some it just goes a lot faster then with others! :D

[hung wei lo]

Greetings All! I have been checking every week to see if there were any new postings for this thread, and WOW all this activity in a matter of days. I am working on a reply but due to the volume of new posts that have been added it is going to take me some time. So stay tuned. I hope to have something in about two weeks, maybe less.

hung wei lo

[mikestefan]

Sifu Tom Grant - South Plainfield, NJ (Yee's Hung Ga)

[mok]

...and of course if you're near Connecticut, do check out Onassis Parungao.

http://www.cykwoon.freewebspace.com/

[Rolling Fists]

i think its incorrect to call hung gar the hardest style. i have always been told (and i welcome any correction) hung gar starts off hard but works toward the "soft" or subtle side. all tcma have a hard and a soft side otherwise they wouldn't be balanced. but as for hung ga instructors in the u.s. i would pick in no particular order:

1. sifu sharif bey- Brooklyn (i think), NY (Yee's Hung ga)
2. sifu pedro yee- clifton, NJ (Yee's Hung Ga)
3. sifu wing lam- somewhere in ca i think

Correction and update:
SiFu Sharif Bey's branch is located in Syracuse NY.
There's also a new branch that just opened about at year ago

SiFu Mir Sultan - New Brunswick, NJ (www.nbyeeshungga.com)

[SifuYui]

In New York City you can also check out Matthew Blazon Yee's school. His Hung Ga is through the Tang Fong lineage:

www.newyorkhungga.com

[TenTigers]

On Long Island, Ling Nam Siu Lum, -Sifu Michael Manganiello, and of course, Ten Tigers Kung-Fu Academy......Moi! ;)

[Crosshandz]

I've read a lot of contrasting things about the origin of Hung Gar. Does anyone out there know what the best scholarship has to say on the issue?

Did Hung Gar really come from the Southern Shaolin temple and when we say 'the' Southern Shaolin temple which one are we talking about (I've read there were three)?

Did Gee Sim really exist or was the story of the elders escaping Shaolin simply fabricated by anti-Qing rebels to add legitimacy to their style?

Who was the historical Hung Hei Goon a tea merchant or an aristocrat and cousin of the Ming royalty?

How many different branches of Hung Gar are there out there and how do the curriculums differ/compare? Assuming that Gung Gee fook fu kuen is the basis of Hung Gar where did the rest come from?

Be grateful to anyone who can clear some of this up for me.

Thanks

[PM]

some of this stuff has been discussed at http://www.hungkyun.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=4 try there:-)

[Crosshandz]

some of this stuff has been discussed at http://www.hungkyun.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=4 try there:-)

Thanks I'll take a look. :)

Any further responses from anyone else, as stated previously, would be welcomed.

[PM]

you re welcomed i am more on the other forum but i will try to give you short reply here:

Did Hung Gar really come from the Southern Shaolin temple and when we say 'the' Southern Shaolin temple which one are we talking about (I've read there were three)?

the oral history says Hung Kyun comes from the Southern Shaolin. which? (Fujian, Fuqing, Quanzhou), no clue. old text speak only of Fujian Shaolin or Nine Lotus Mountain Shaolin.

---

Did Gee Sim really exist or was the story of the elders escaping Shaolin simply fabricated by anti-Qing rebels to add legitimacy to their style?

- well, i do not know, all we have is oral "history". might be like this or that. what we certainly know is that Jisin simsi is first time mentioned in a written sources in "Thousand Years of Ching", a novel from cca. 1893.

---

Who was the historical Hung Hei Goon a tea merchant or an aristocrat and cousin of the Ming royalty?

- Hung Heigun is another story, he seems to be a real person, as a person with this name is mentioned in Fujian archives (as a rebel who killed some guy with a single strike), i have also read that his grave is still somewhere there. traditional oral story goes that he was a tea merchant, but one of his ancestors was 15. son of the last Ming emperor

---

How many different branches of Hung Gar are there out there and how do the curriculums differ/compare? Assuming that Gung Gee fook fu kuen is the basis of Hung Gar where did the rest come from?

- many, and many different. for last couple of years i have been doing research in China (so far just in Guangdong), but even there asre many legitimate branches of what we call today Hung Kyun: fu hok Hung Kyun, saam jin Hung kyun, hubg syun Hung Kyun, Lau Taan Ho Hung Kyun, Dang ga Hung kyun... some (old) Hung Kyun branches are also in Fujian. (gung ji) fuk fu kyun is common only to some of them. curriculum differs a lot, but the core concepts are similar. (old) Hung Kyun is very close to all Fujian styles, especially White Crane (i belive it is one of the manin sources of todays Hung Kyun). no doubt that most dominant line in Gwongdung is Wong Feihung's or better say Lam Saiwing's Hung Kyun - i heard them from all of the Hung kyun masters in Southern China i have met, and i have met many of them.

summary: Lam Saiwing and his generation is very well recored. we have also some reliable written and oral sources about Wong Feihung. before Wong Feihung, nobody knows.

the question is: what is it really Hung Kyun? old sources speak just of "martial art" or Shaolin, just rarely of Hung Kyun. Wong Feihung's Hung Kyun is mix of various martial arts of Southern China.

hypothesis: Hung kyun is a generic term of martial art practiced by members of Chinese secret societies (Hung mun) in Guangdong and Fujian? the story about its origing is a typical foundational myth, same as in the case of the origin of Hung mun (Hong men, Tian di hui, San he hui... )?

btw. similar questions (especialyl about Southern Shaolin) bother the historians of so called Chinese secret societies - i recommend you to check them out, some very interesting info there

curently there is quite extensive research about the subjectin China, if you can read Chinese, i can recommend you some articles

also, check this (article written by brother of Sifu, not much details, but in my opinion really good one)

http://www.lghk.org/en/articles/martialstudies.htm

[Crosshandz]

you re welcomed more on the other forum but i will try to give you short reply here:

Did Hung Gar really come from the Southern Shaolin temple and when we say 'the' Southern Shaolin temple which one are we talking about (I've read there were three)?

the oral history says Hung Kyun comes from the Southern Shaolin. which? (Fujian, Fuqing, Quanzhou), no clue. old text speak only of Fujian Shaolin or Nine Lotus Mountain Shaolin.

---

Did Gee Sim really exist or was the story of the elders escaping Shaolin simply fabricated by anti-Qing rebels to add legitimacy to their style?

- well, i do not know, all we have is oral "history". might be like this or that. what we certainly know is that Jisin simsi is first time mentioned in a written sources in "Thousand Years of Ching", a novel from cca. 1893.

---

Who was the historical Hung Hei Goon a tea merchant or an aristocrat and cousin of the Ming royalty?

- Hung Heigun is another story, he seems to be a real person, as a person with this name is mentioned in Fujian archives (as a rebel who killed some guy with a single strike), i have also read that his grave is still somewhere there. traditional oral story goes that he was a tea merchant, but one of his ancestors was 15. son of the last Ming emperor

---

How many different branches of Hung Gar are there out there and how do the curriculums differ/compare? Assuming that Gung Gee fook fu kuen is the basis of Hung Gar where did the rest come from?

- many, and many different. for last couple of years i have been doing research in China (so far just in Guangdong), but even there asre many legitimate branches of what we call today Hung Kyun: fu hok Hung Kyun, saam jin Hung kyun, hubg syun Hung Kyun, Lau Taan Ho Hung Kyun, Dang ga Hung kyun... some (old) Hung Kyun branches are also in Fujian. (gung ji) fuk fu kyun is common only to some of them. curriculum differs a lot, but the core concepts are similar. (old) Hung Kyun is very close to all Fujian styles, especially White Crane (i belive it is one of the manin sources of todays Hung Kyun). no doubt that most dominant line in Gwongdung is Wong Feihung's or better say Lam Saiwing's Hung Kyun - i heard them from all of the Hung kyun masters in Southern China i have met, and i have met many of them.

summary: Lam Saiwing and his generation is very well recored. we have also some reliable written and oral sources about Wong Feihung. before Wong Feihung, nobody knows.

the question is: what is it really Hung Kyun? old sources speak just of "martial art" or Shaolin, just rarely of Hung Kyun. Wong Feihung's Hung Kyun is mix of various martial arts of Southern China.

hypothesis: Hung kyun is a generic term of martial art practiced by members of Chinese secret societies (Hung mun) in Guangdong and Fujian? the story about its origing is a typical foundational myth, same as in the case of the origin of Hung mun (Hong men, Tian di hui, San he hui... )?

btw. similar questions (especialyl about Southern Shaolin) bother the historians of so called Chinese secret societies - i recommend you to check them out, some very interesting info there

curently there is quite extensive research about the subjectin China, if you can read Chinese, i can recommend you some articles

also, check this (article written by brother of Sifu, not much details, but in my opinion really good one)

http://www.lghk.org/en/articles/martialstudies.htm

Thanks for that full and extensive reply. I wish I could read Chinese because this topic seems so rich. :)

[David Jamieson]

There is no actual bonafide absolute truth to that question.

you will find that there are many branches of the tree, but none can go so far back as to see from where the seed was thrown.

ultimately, those who are alive today and who propagate the style itself are what's important.

Or you can choose to argue about whose grandpa has th right version of the story that didn't even happen in their own lifetime.

also, how well do you know your math teacher? where'd that come from and does it have relevance to whether or not the math you are learning is correct?

:)

[Crosshandz]

There is no actual bonafide absolute truth to that question.

you will find that there are many branches of the tree, but none can go so far back as to see from where the seed was thrown.

ultimately, those who are alive today and who propagate the style itself are what's important.

Or you can choose to argue about whose grandpa has th right version of the story that didn't even happen in their own lifetime.

also, how well do you know your math teacher? where'd that come from and does it have relevance to whether or not the math you are learning is correct?

:)

I appreciate your standpoint and there is some merit to what you're saying. However, even in maths they teach you about the theories and their provenance e.g. Pythagoras.

Its not simply enough to simply be. If I hit my head tomorrow and woke up an amnesiac I think I'd feel like a huge part of me was missing as my past to a large extent constitutes who I am today.

What Hung Gar is today is a reflection of the development it has undergone since its formation. I feel to appreciate the art as it is means to have, or at least to attempt to have, some grasp of its history however obscure that may be.

[David Jamieson]

I appreciate your standpoint and there is some merit to what you're saying. However, even in maths they teach you about the theories and their provenance e.g. Pythagoras.

Its not simply enough to simply be. If I hit my head tomorrow and woke up an amnesiac I think I'd feel like a huge part of me was missing as my past to a large extent constitutes who I am today.

What Hung Gar is today is a reflection of the development it has undergone since its formation. I feel to appreciate the art as it is means to have, or at least to attempt to have, some grasp of its history however obscure that may be.

fwiw in most respects, oral tradition and the cultural revolution have left the waters forever muddy.

there is only what there is.

[SIFU RON]

David's words are wise words.

No proof exists where the beginning of Hung Ga or for that matter where and when KF began.

It is rewarding to know the past, to trace History, however when the Communists took over China all that information vanished.

I was told Hung Ga originated with the " Boat People of China " and that Kung Fu began before the " Temple" existed. True or not ? It doesn't make much difference to me, stories of the past that cannot be proved are simply an opinion. However the Tradional Hung Ga Style is phenomenal.

This forum is a good place to research information regarding the History of anything to do with Kung Fu, also Tai Chi Kung Fu magazine is an excellent source of Chinese M/A information. Unless you have already done it, Subscribe to it , and keep us informed of your progress.

[bawang]

i think hung kuen is a political idea, but i dont think many people really believe in it

the manchus are defeeted, but there is new enemy to fight

[David Jamieson]

i think hung kuen is a political idea, but i dont think many people really believe in it

the manchus are defeeted, but there is new enemy to fight

that's right! you tube copycats! get them! they're doing it wrong!!!!

:p

[sanjuro_ronin]

According to the movie, Shaolin Executioners, Hung kuen came from the combination of tiger and crane styles used by the Son of Hung sin quan, to defeat the evil Taoist priest Bai Mei.
Good enough for me !!
:D

[TenTigers]

yeah, except Hung Man-Ting was entirely made up for the movie by Lau Ka Leung.
Funny thing-there is a school that has him in their lineage.

[sanjuro_ronin]

yeah, except Hung Man-Ting was entirely made up for the movie by Lau Ka Leung.
Funny thing-there is a school that has him in their lineage.

Lies !!!
I have proof !!

http://www.fareastdvd.com/ebaypics/executioners%20from%20shaolin.JPG

[David Jamieson]

yeah, except Hung Man-Ting was entirely made up for the movie by Lau Ka Leung.
Funny thing-there is a school that has him in their lineage.

That's ...beautiful...*tear*

:p

[shaolin23]

How many forms in the Hung Gar system?:confused:
What are their names? :confused:

Any videos would be nice!:)

[PM]

hello, you can see the complete curriculum of Lam family Hung Kyun at

http://www.lghk.org/en/curriculum/index.htm

couple of videos are here:

http://www.lghk.org/en/videos.htm

and as for Hung Ga Kyun, i can recommend you a forum devoted solely to this art

http://www.hungkyun.com

all the best!

[peace&love]

You can check out Buck Sam Kong's and Donald Hamby's websites. They are excellent resources for Hung Gar. They also have DVDs available.

[David Jamieson]

Hung is a long and deep river with many tributaries.

Some schools have only what are referred to as the pillar sets, other schools have much more supplimental materials as well as forms and each school, each practitioner expresses these in a different way.

essence is there, sameness is not. :)

the pillars are generally recognized as:

Gung ji fook fu kuen (tame the tiger)
Fu hok seung ying kuen (tiger/crane)
Sap Ying Kuen or Ng Ying Kuen (10 shapes or 5 animals some schools use one or the other as a pillar set)
Tid sen Kuen (Iron thread)

Other sets such as 2 man matching sets, and other entirely different sets will be inside the system depending on who your teacher is. I think it is gung ji fook fu kuen that is consistently recognized as containing the oldest material directly related to the tiger style drawn from the shaolin temple of old.

It's worth reading the material posted as links here though so as to get an understanding of just how deep and how long the style is. :)

[banditshaw]

An older site but peep the link.

http://hungkuen.net/forms.htm

[TenTigers]

If you were going to narrow it down to a handful of basic techniques/strikes to get a student up and running, able to basically fight (not competitively) What would your list be?

[sanjuro_ronin]

If you were going to narrow it down to a handful of basic techniques/strikes to get a student up and running, able to basically fight (not competitively) What would your list be?

does anyone ever need more than the typical jab, cross, hook, uppercut and backfist for fists.
front, side, round back and stomp for kicks?
Knees and elbows for good measure?
head control?
sweeps and basic throws/trips?

[ginosifu]

does anyone ever need more than the typical jab, cross, hook, uppercut and backfist for fists.
front, side, round back and stomp for kicks?
Knees and elbows for good measure?
head control?
sweeps and basic throws/trips?

Basics are basics, but what additionally would be considered Hung Gar bread and butter tech's. Example for me:

I like to use forearm blocks to attack the limb, but bridge onto them with Tiger Claws afterward.

ginosifu

[TenTigers]

does anyone ever need more than the typical jab, cross, hook, uppercut and backfist for fists.
front, side, round back and stomp for kicks?
Knees and elbows for good measure?
head control?
sweeps and basic throws/trips?
yeah, but that's not what the topic really is. Sure you can argue (justify) that those techniques are within the system, and frankly, I don't want to get into a debate, back and forth about it.
The question is specifically referring to what Hung-Ga people would deem "standard, typical of the system, Hung-Ga techniques" you get the idea.

[Eric Olson]

Tiger descends mountain

[TenTigers]

Tiger descends mountain
and...? just one technique? What strikes? Which kicks?
You are teaching Hung-Ga Fighting 101. What is your syllabus?

[YouKnowWho]

what Hung-Ga people would deem "standard, typical of the system, Hung-Ga techniques" ...
Why not just look at this from a different angle? What bread and butter techniques that you will need in combat? Where can you get such techniques?

I just don't think "style boundary" techniques is a good way for TCMA discussion. If we look at from a style point of view, we may be restricted by the style founder's knowledge. In the 21th centry, we can get more information than any of our ancient style founder could.

[TenTigers]

Why not just look at this from a different angle? What bread and butter techniques that you will need in combat? Where can you get such techniques?

I just don't think "style boundary" techniques is a good way for TCMA discussion. If we look at from a style point of view, we may be restricted by the style founder's knowledge. In the 21th centry, we can get more information than any of our ancient style founder could.
that's fine, but not for this thread please, as this is a very "style specific" topic.
You want to go in that direction, fine. Create another thread.

[David Jamieson]

elbow strikes seem to be favourable, also straight punches short sharp hooks to the guts and ball kicks.


not enough can be said for ball kicks. :)

[ginosifu]

just don't think "style boundary" techniques is a good way for TCMA discussion. If we look at from a style point of view, we may be restricted by the style founder's knowledge. In the 21th centry, we can get more information than any of our ancient style founder could.

I have trained eclectically in several styles but, when I am fighting or playing Hung Kuen.... I stick to Hung kuen techniques. There are plenty of various techniques in Hung Gar that there is no need to go "Outside" to find any better stuff.

I like to use forearm blocks to bridge and move in with Double Tiger Claws:

Start left to left Guard. Attacker throw a right cross.

I block with a right inside Forearm Block and come under with my left Tiger Claw to grab his right arm.

My right forearm immediately bounces off his arm and claws forward at attackers face. It contiues towards attackers left side picking up his left punch (If he he coming with his left).

My left Tiger claw releases his punch and moves to his throat. Now if there is no left hand to contend with I move my right hand to behind lower back and smack his kidney (just to help buckle his spine a bit).

Then, depending on what leg is in front, I will step behind him for a Chopping type throw and take him down to the ground. Hopefully submitting him out in the mean while.

ginosifu

[ginosifu]

Another method using forearm blocks to bridge then enter:

Start left to left guard stance.

Attacker throws a rear right round kick. (low high does not matter)

I usually step forward into horse (stepping and positioning will depend on where you are) and double forearn block the incoming round kick.

Immediately swing my right arm diagonally up and towards his face (forcing him to block maybe???). If he blocks I grab his block with my right Tiger Claw and pull it across his body to my right.

Now I swing a left hammer fist at his head and if he blocks that I immediatelly grab it with my left Tiger Claw.

I release my right Tiger Claw and go for the throat. Also taking my left hand and smacking his lower back again to help arch his back a bit.

Then step in for a take down and submission.

ginosifu

[Subitai]

If you were going to narrow it down to a handful of basic techniques/strikes to get a student up and running, able to basically fight (not competitively) What would your list be?

Hey Ten! You want me to share those for free???
Set up a seminar date and make it worth my while.
I'll show up and share my entry methods...primary and secondary.

It's just like Tone Loc said:

I need $50 to make you holler I get paid to do the wild thing"

:D

Jokes aside, i'm all serious when it comes to applying Hung Kuen man.

[sanjuro_ronin]

yeah, but that's not what the topic really is. Sure you can argue (justify) that those techniques are within the system, and frankly, I don't want to get into a debate, back and forth about it.
The question is specifically referring to what Hung-Ga people would deem "standard, typical of the system, Hung-Ga techniques" you get the idea.

Yeah, well you aren't going to get some silly terminology from me, you know how I am about that.
We both been around the block TOO MUCH to say that there is anything that unique in the CORE of HK, at least in regards to your original question.
That is why, when in action, HK looks like "typical KB" but also has a hint of "something else".

Whether you wanna call a straight punch a "reverse punch" or "heart piercing punch" or "rams head punch", doesn't change what it is.

[Rolling Fists]

I try to get the newer students to become comfortable with the 4 treasures: rising, sinking, opening, closing. The Chin Jee Sao sequence in Gung Jee Kyun is a good example of forward advancing techniques that utilize that concept.

[dirtyrat]

this looks like an interesting thread.

as for hung ga's bread&butter techniques, wouldn't it depend. hung ga seems to have a wide body of techniques that can be tailored to a student depending on his build and stuff.

[SifuYui]

Rik,

I consider these to be the basics of Hung Ga fighting 101:

- Sup Ji Sau (can trap, transition to Tiger or Wu Dip techniques to name a few)
- Wu Dip Jeurng (parry, evasion, transition to traps or Tiger to name a few)
- Chop Chuy (direct, piercing, hard to stop because of the angle of entry)
- Fu Jow (for seizing and ripping)

- the fighting technqiues within the 5 major stances (applied below the waist of course)

Variations on how you throw these techniques allows for a full gamut of parrying, trapping, jabbing, slipping in, slipping out, breaking, and much much more.

Yui

[ginosifu]

Rik,

I consider these to be the basics of Hung Ga fighting 101:

- Sup Ji Sau (can trap, transition to Tiger or Wu Dip techniques to name a few)
- Wu Dip Jeurng (parry, evasion, transition to traps or Tiger to name a few)
- Chop Chuy (direct, piercing, hard to stop because of the angle of entry)
- Fu Jow (for seizing and ripping)

- the fighting technqiues within the 5 major stances (applied below the waist of course)

Variations on how you throw these techniques allows for a full gamut of parrying, trapping, jabbing, slipping in, slipping out, breaking, and much much more.

Yui

Very nice Yui, thanks for the input.

ginosifu

[PM]

similar topic discussed over here:

http://www.hungkyun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=140&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=seed&start=0

some interesting info in this thread, thnx guys!

[TenTigers]

for me, it's Bik Kiu and its many permutations-sup ji sao, seurng gung fook fu, tiet moon, hak fu jow, etc
Hak Fu Jow-which is our side horse stance with high and low guard in fu jow, some just call it bong sao, or other things, but I feel that limits its scope of application.
Ng Hang
yeu ma hop yat-whole body is the fist
short bridging techniques drawn from Moi Fa Kuen for beginners, Fu Hok Seurng Ying Kuen in the more advanced stages.
I'm not big on dai ma cheurng kiu-I think it's overemphasized. People try too hard to bridge, bridge, bridge, and become rigid and dead hands.
My bridging comes from the short-handed techniques-sensitivity, close range. All found in FHSYK. It's a more complex skill, and much time is needed for its development, but for me, it's a worthwhile endeavor.

[Lee Chiang Po]

Actually, if you had a student come to you and ask you to give him something that he could defend himself with, you will not be able to teach him the entire gambit of moves. First and foremost, you need to teach him how to defend himself through blocks and paries as well as moving out of the way, footwork. This is far more important than learning how to pound someone. You have to be able to hit him in the first place and if he is hitting you, chances are you are going down rather than him. So defense is first. As much defense as he can learn in so short a time. This means that you teach him your best defensive moves. The ones that are the easiest to learn. Then you can teach him a small number of attack techniques that are easy to learn and use.
When I was in the military in the mid 60's, I taught combat jiujitsu and even put together a manual for teaching and learning. I only used about half a dozen defense techniques and attack techniques, but the guys were quickly able to develop several different versions of each of these. It was soon that they had quite an array of attack and defence techniques. I also gave a quick run down on how to fall. That is important, but it can be secondary to the other stuff when it comes down to it. Just enough so that you can practice a few moves with a partner. Push or shove, you can defend yourself in short order against someone that is the average individual. We are not talking about contenders for a title.
I would imagine that this would amount to the same with any fighting system.

[TenTigers]

I actually teach attacking sequences first.
Our defensive techniques are also attacks, so they come next.
We refer to "blocks," as "Defensive strikes."

[Asmo]

Yeah, well you aren't going to get some silly terminology from me, you know how I am about that.
We both been around the block TOO MUCH to say that there is anything that unique in the CORE of HK, at least in regards to your original question.
That is why, when in action, HK looks like "typical KB" but also has a hint of "something else".

Whether you wanna call a straight punch a "reverse punch" or "heart piercing punch" or "rams head punch", doesn't change what it is.

To an outsider the separate techniques will look like kickboxing, but to an insider the power generation should be different and noticeable, IMHO.

Besides core/seed/whatever techniques, I think the strategy should really be where it shows you are a Hung Kuen stylist. Dotted around our sets are hints at how to make contact over the bridge, which should be expanded upon and personalized by the individual practitioner to make his own fighting-fingerprint so to say.

My personal fighting drills all have their own specific principal to practice. From defending and counterattacking certain attacks to setting up the bridge, crossing distances and overwhelming the opponent. Many Hung Kuen tactics can be used to confuse or setup the opponent for followup techniques. Those are far more interesting IMHO then the discussion of a few separate techniques that in Southern TCMA seems to be executed pretty much the same cross-style. But then again, understanding those tactics also heavily depends on understanding, which takes time to build and is not easily given away.

Just my 0.01 cents :)

[sanjuro_ronin]

To an outsider the separate techniques will look like kickboxing, but to an insider the power generation should be different and noticeable, IMHO.

Besides core/seed/whatever techniques, I think the strategy should really be where it shows you are a Hung Kuen stylist. Dotted around our sets are hints at how to make contact over the bridge, which should be expanded upon and personalized by the individual practitioner to make his own fighting-fingerprint so to say.

My personal fighting drills all have their own specific principal to practice. From defending and counterattacking certain attacks to setting up the bridge, crossing distances and overwhelming the opponent. Many Hung Kuen tactics can be used to confuse or setup the opponent for followup techniques. Those are far more interesting IMHO then the discussion of a few separate techniques that in Southern TCMA seems to be executed pretty much the same cross-style. But then again, understanding those tactics also heavily depends on understanding, which takes time to build and is not easily given away.

Just my 0.01 cents :)

From my experience it MAY seem that way, until one has expereinced what OTHERS do.
Then we notice how much we have in common and how little is unique.
THAT said, I agree that it is in the principals and strategies that we do find what makes Hung Kuen, Hung Kuen.
THAT said, we are also talking about "bread and butter" TECHNIQUES and if I recall correctly from the OP, for competition.
My point, which you quoted, was that I ( personally) don't "bother" with "exotic" names for what I do anymore.
It's just not me.

[Asmo]

THAT said, we are also talking about "bread and butter" TECHNIQUES and if I recall correctly from the OP, for competition.

Fair enough :cool: I'll shut up again, hehe.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Fair enough :cool: I'll shut up again, hehe.

LOL !
No need to shut up Bro, we are exchange ideas and views and opinions.
Please share.

[Asmo]

I'm not big on dai ma cheurng kiu-I think it's overemphasized. People try too hard to bridge, bridge, bridge, and become rigid and dead hands.

Could you explain a little more on how bridging could become rigid and "dead hands". Not even sure what you mean with dead hands :)

Bridging is bridging, even just landing a punch directly is, but the beauty of Hung Kuen (in my view of it) is in the bridging. Just to keep jabbing keeps a lot of options out that are offered in the three treasures, and even weapon forms like 5B8D pole which gave me some excellent setups for unarmed combat.

[TenTigers]

I see many people, when trying to look "Hung-Garry"(Hung-Garish?) stick out their arms like rigid trees and force their way into you. "Ahh, very strong bridge, Grasshopper!"
That was a huge exaggeration, but just to illustrate.
Strong is good, rigid is not.
A dead hand is when you "block" or are blocked and your arm stops, rather than once feeling opposition, continues like water flowing around a rock.
Tim Tacketts trapping youtube vid illustrating the swinging gate, is an excellent example of a live hand. Nice drill, too.

[Asmo]

Thanks for the explanation, clear :)

[LaterthanNever]

"If we look at from a style point of view, we may be restricted by the style founder's knowledge."

That is why it's a style in the first place. You sound like a JKD guy. There is a place for that..but as TT says..that's not the question..

[mig]

I have spent some time in looking around some hungkyun sets in youtube and sometimes one wonders where those forms come from. I don't even know if they are related to a traditional style taught by Chinese from overseas but I saw these forms in the 70's. Any feedback?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBK7Xmkh9Y8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eCc4TwXpro&playnext=1&list=PL356CED0FA9FF2CED

Thanks,

[TenTigers]

the second set on the second vid was Fook Fu Kuen, but done as if it was learned from a friend of a friend who knew a guy....
The first vid was nonsense. Just made up stuff.

[lkfmdc]

obviously took a little kung fu from here and from there and made stuff up

craptacular

[David Jamieson]

I guess they're pretty lenient with who they deem "sifu" in honduras.

meh, no sweat off my ass. :rolleyes: (or their's by the looks of it)

[lkfmdc]

I guess they're pretty lenient with who they deem "sifu" in honduras.



"sifu" is Honduran slang for "meh" apparently

[TenTigers]

Most of these guys, just like the guys teaching in less metropolitan areas, get away with teaching that made-up stuff because the people out there have no access to real Kung-Fu, so they have nothing to compare it to. So they believe all the hype.
Funny that it never occurs to them to open up a book, or google it.
It's really amazing that it went on even in NY, though. In the 70's and 80's there were a lot of these guys-still are in fact.
I guess, to most non-Asians, Chinatown is a dark and mysterious place, and rather than venture into the unknown, they will sign up at the local Shaolin Mystical Dragon Academy, or some crap...
Like I always say,"Open up a book, fer Chrissakes!"

[mooyingmantis]

craptacular

He shoots, he SCORES!!!! Good one Dave! :D

[unyma]

Most of these guys, just like the guys teaching in less metropolitan areas, get away with teaching that made-up stuff because the people out there have no access to real Kung-Fu, so they have nothing to compare it to. So they believe all the hype.
Funny that it never occurs to them to open up a book, or google it.
It's really amazing that it went on even in NY, though. In the 70's and 80's there were a lot of these guys-still are in fact.
I guess, to most non-Asians, Chinatown is a dark and mysterious place, and rather than venture into the unknown, they will sign up at the local Shaolin Mystical Dragon Academy, or some crap...
Like I always say,"Open up a book, fer Chrissakes!"

How do I join that place, it sounds great!

[5thBrother]

Hi Guys,

Not sure how to workd this... but after any sites/youtube clips showing the "oldest" versions of Hung Gar/Kuen.

By "oldist" I mean old .. like ... for example there is Wong Fei Hong Lineage HG ... that obvious has a distinct "founding date" ... and obviously there are HG 'systems' for lack of better words 'founded/developed'.. again for lack of better words... before and after WFH Lineage... Most obviously the HG that WFH Learnt himself.

I'm guesing the "Village" Styles of Hung Gar are to look at for older versions of HG? ... But not sure where these Village styles fit into the picture ....


I'm kinda interested in seeing the older minimalist versions and more original versions of whati assume were mininal forms, training exercises and set techniques perhaps

hope that made sense

Thanks

[TenTigers]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1trPgnXXy3s

[ShaolinDan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1trPgnXXy3s

Interesting. It's hard to see his hands with the quality of video, but there appear to be a lot of moves from Eagle Claw. Several of his movements come right out of eagle claw forms I've learned. Weird.
Probably they're just tiger claw techniques that overlap with eagle. Haven't seen much tiger myself, so I don't really know...

[5thBrother]

Thanks TenTigers.

Was also interesting to read this was Shakespear Chan's hung Gar Teacher

[TenTigers]

Shakespear Chan also learned from Lao Ke Tong, who learned from Tang Fong, who learned from Wong Fei-Hung. That is where his Hung-Gar comes from. SC's Hung-Gar is considered Tang Fong style.

[Howard]

Old Hung Kuen, maybe the ones below are examples -

1. Tsam Kong Hung Kuen (also known as 5 pattern Hung Kuen, Hay Sei Fu, etc)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5bD9f49awQ

2. Tam Family Hung Kuen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Szuqq2rFapQ&feature=channel_video_title

[yeshe]

Looking at the four pillar forms. I have been told the GJFF is the oldest.
the iron wire was added later and WFH composed the tiger crane.

I have read somewhere (maybe on this forum) that the older hung sets could be practiced on the space of four tiles,(from what I guess a stone floor tile would be about 2 1/2 to 3 ft square give or take)

also long arm was added during WFH's time,

So if we took GJFF and 5 animal, removed the long arm techniques and narrowed and raised the stances maybe that may look like the the "oldest" hung

maybe , maybe not

[TenTigers]

If you look at the opening sections in the pillar forms-the parts done in the higher, and narrower stances, short bridges, etc you might be able to see the older Hung Kuen style.

[LaterthanNever]

As for Wong Fei Hung:

"The form - as known in Hung Kuen - Gung Ji Fuk Fu Kuen was developed by Lam Sai Wing, the man that made Tiger Crane Boxing popular. Gung Ji Fuk Fu Kuen was choreographed around the beginning of the Qing dynasty (1912) and was developped upon the many techniques and forms he (Lam Sai Wing) learned from his master Wong Fei Hung. Wong Fei Hung lead a very colorful life and became a legend. In his youth Wong Fei Hung learned the following forms:
1) Sei Ping Lok Chan Kuen = Four Levels Six Controlling Fist
2) Saam Tzien Kuen = Three Arrow Fist
3) Ye Fu Chat Lam = Night Tiger Comes Out of the Forrest
4) Seung Lung Kuen = Double Dragon Fist
5) Daan Gung Fuk Fu Kuen = Single Taming Tiger Fist
6) Siu Hung Kuen = Little Hung Kuen
7) Lo Han Paau Mo Ying Guek = Lohan Rope and No Shadow Kick
8) Lo Han Gam Tsien Biu = Lohan Golden Coin and Dart Throwing Art
9) Sei Tzeung Biu Lung Kwan = Four Hexagram Dragon Stick

Later in his life his curriculum was:
1) Daan Gung Kuen = Single Gung Character Fist
2) Seung Gung Kuen = Double Gung Character Fist
3) Daan Gung Fuk Fu Kuen = Single Bow Taming Tiger Fist
4) Seung Gung Fuk Fu Kuen = Double Bow Taming Tiger Fist
5) Mang Fu Kuen = Fierce Tiger Fist
6) Sei Tzeung Biu Lung Kwan = Four Hexagram Dragon Stick
7) Ji Mo Do = Buterfly Knives/Mother Son Swords
8) Mo Ying Guek = Shadowless Kick
9) Haak Fu Jau = Black Tiger Claw"

You've also got the forms that Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit claims have been part of the development of Hung, yet for one reason or another are rather esoteric or little is known about who founded them.

[5thBrother]

Thanks TenTigers,

Thanks for the replies everyone.

[TenTigers]

As for Wong Fei Hung:

"The form - as known in Hung Kuen - Gung Ji Fuk Fu Kuen was developed by Lam Sai Wing, the man that made Tiger Crane Boxing popular. Gung Ji Fuk Fu Kuen was choreographed around the beginning of the Qing dynasty (1912) and was developped upon the many techniques and forms he (Lam Sai Wing) learned from his master Wong Fei Hung. Wong Fei Hung lead a very colorful life and became a legend. In his youth Wong Fei Hung learned the following forms:
1) Sei Ping Lok Chan Kuen = Four Levels Six Controlling Fist
2) Saam Tzien Kuen = Three Arrow Fist
3) Ye Fu Chat Lam = Night Tiger Comes Out of the Forrest
4) Seung Lung Kuen = Double Dragon Fist
5) Daan Gung Fuk Fu Kuen = Single Taming Tiger Fist
6) Siu Hung Kuen = Little Hung Kuen
7) Lo Han Paau Mo Ying Guek = Lohan Rope and No Shadow Kick
8) Lo Han Gam Tsien Biu = Lohan Golden Coin and Dart Throwing Art
9) Sei Tzeung Biu Lung Kwan = Four Hexagram Dragon Stick

Later in his life his curriculum was:
1) Daan Gung Kuen = Single Gung Character Fist
2) Seung Gung Kuen = Double Gung Character Fist
3) Daan Gung Fuk Fu Kuen = Single Bow Taming Tiger Fist
4) Seung Gung Fuk Fu Kuen = Double Bow Taming Tiger Fist
5) Mang Fu Kuen = Fierce Tiger Fist
6) Sei Tzeung Biu Lung Kwan = Four Hexagram Dragon Stick
7) Ji Mo Do = Buterfly Knives/Mother Son Swords
8) Mo Ying Guek = Shadowless Kick
9) Haak Fu Jau = Black Tiger Claw"

You've also got the forms that Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit claims have been part of the development of Hung, yet for one reason or another are rather esoteric or little is known about who founded them.

There are lineages outside of LSW that practice Gung Ji, Fook Fu as separate forms. LSW did not invent that set, he reorganized it, combined the two as one, and added his own personal refinements.

[David Jamieson]

As for Wong Fei Hung:

"The form - as known in Hung Kuen - Gung Ji Fuk Fu Kuen was developed by Lam Sai Wing, the man that made Tiger Crane Boxing popular. Gung Ji Fuk Fu Kuen was choreographed around the beginning of the Qing dynasty (1912) ....

The Qing Dynasty began in 1644 and ended in 1911.

In the time of Lam Sai Wing, the rebellion was over. The LSW Hung Gar is the most widely recognized version as it was delineated through the biggest names in the early to mid 1900's.

Most of the WFH stuff is legend and it has been overshadowed by hundreds of books, comics, tv shows etc etc. WFH is practically a Batman unto himself and was more than likely a whole lot more modest than what he is portrayed as.

Even LSW had some pretty tall tales told about him. Such is the lot of a kung fu master when he dies. :)

[TenTigers]

Even LSW had some pretty tall tales told about him. Such is the lot of a kung fu master when he dies. :)
yup. I can only imagine the stories they will tell about me when I'm gone.
Heck, the stories they say now are embarrassing enough.

"The famous fight with the lesbians at Escapes Night Club," will go down in history, right along side "The fight at the Luk Sin Theatre."

[LaterthanNever]

I copied and pasted..guilty as charged..

I guess if you wanted to get really technical..you'd have to go back to "what are the forms that Hung Hei Gung learned?"

He is after all..the deepest root of Hung Ga..besides Gee Sin..

[TenTigers]

I copied and pasted..guilty as charged..

I guess if you wanted to get really technical..you'd have to go back to "what are the forms that Hung Hei Gung learned?"

He is after all..the deepest root of Hung Ga..besides Gee Sin..

Some schools do not list Hung Hei Guen in their lineage. I suppose it is because he might be too based on legend, and no actual proof that he existed, or maybe because he is tied to the triads? Perhaps he is often confused with Hong XiuQuan, a famous rebel and religious zealot. Not sure. They start with Gee Sien, and go right to Luk Ah-Choy.

[LaterthanNever]

TT,

Interesting. Did Lu Ak Choi have a different syllabus of sets then?

[TenTigers]

TT,

Interesting. Did Lu Ak Choi have a different syllabus of sets then?
Not sure. My Sifu said his line comes from Luk Ah-Choy. He does Dan Gung Fook Fu, Fu Hok Seung Ying Kuen, Tiet Sien Kuen. I will ask him the next time I see him....but, I know it will be a long conversation. (sigh) You ask him a simple question about a punch and he starts with the history of Gung-Fu.....

[Howard]

Actually it is accepted that Hong Xiguan existed - more than there is in the Chi Sim and shaolin story, which are only legends to blur Hong bang activities....

Lu ah cai is associated with Wong Feihung lineages....but no record in general,....thought to be a member of hong bang if existed but likely with alternate name.

It is also likely to be no forms or very minimal during Hong Xiguan period thus many different varieties....hearsay implies samjan and Fookfu as the foundation if there was any set....

All modern hung gar pillar sets were re-organized and developed by Lam Saiwing.

[LaterthanNever]

"Lu ah cai is associated with Wong Feihung lineages"

I guess perhaps what the original query of the poster is/was:

The term "Old style Hung" or "Village style Hung" is often spoken of in the context of "prior to WFH" or "non WFH" lineage.

This would imply that there are sets that are unique to this Old style Hung which one would not see in the WFH lineage..

[TenTigers]

All modern hung gar pillar sets were re-organized and developed by Lam Saiwing.

Yes and no
The actual credit for re-organizing and developing the Pillar Sets should go to Wong Fei-Hung.. Yes, LSW re-organized and added his own refinements, hence it would be called, "development."
No, as the Pillar sets existed before LSW, and there are other people who trained under Wong Fei-Hung, such as Tang Fong, who practice the pillar sets as well, albeit differently than the LSW versions.
One of my teachers, studied a non-LSW lineage, and they do the pillar sets.
Deng family also does the pillar sets-also non LSW.

Please be more careful when making blanket statements.

[HungKuenH]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja2WVX2_Zn4

[5thBrother]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja2WVX2_Zn4

Thanks HungKuenH

That one is very interesting!! .....

See, I find alot of similarity (and differences!) between Hung Gar/Kuen and Lam Tong Long Kuen (SPM) ....

From the little I know old/older Hung Gar was alot more/majority close range short arm system.

That too is interesting to me

Thanks all

[Firehawk4]

What Kind of Hung Gar is Sifu Wong Kiew Kitts is it a version of Village Hung Gar ? Some of his stances are low to the ground i thought village Hung gar was with higher stances .

[Howard]

Yes and no
The actual credit for re-organizing and developing the Pillar Sets should go to Wong Fei-Hung.. Yes, LSW re-organized and added his own refinements, hence it would be called, "development."
No, as the Pillar sets existed before LSW, and there are other people who trained under Wong Fei-Hung, such as Tang Fong, who practice the pillar sets as well, albeit differently than the LSW versions.
One of my teachers, studied a non-LSW lineage, and they do the pillar sets.
Deng family also does the pillar sets-also non LSW.

Please be more careful when making blanket statements.

Tang Fong studied with LSW and others not purely WHF only. Deng family did not do pillar sets originally. Do not know of your teacher would be interesting to see the line, if you do not mind?
Actually the earlier and latter sessions of hung kuen even from LSW have differences.....

[LaterthanNever]

Some words from Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit:

"But there were some aspects of Southern Shaolin Kungfu whcih Hoong Hei Khoon might not have learnt from his teacher, the Venerable Chee Seen. This did not make Hoong Hei Khoon a lesser master because there were so many things in Shaolin Kungfu, and it was not necessary to learn everything. For example, it was unlikely that Hoong Hei Khoon learned the Shaolin Flower Set from Chee Seen, who taught this set to Foong Sai Yoke and Wu Wei Thein. But Hoong Hei Khoon was a better fighter than his two junior classmates.

Moreover, there were also other Southern Shaolin masters besides Chee Seen. One such master was the Venerable Jiang Nan who passed down, among many other things, the Shaolin Pakua Set. In the Southern Shaolin Kungfu that I teach, we have the Shaolin Flower Set as well as the Shaoln Pakua Set, but these two kungfu sets are not normally found in Hoong Ka Kungfu, where the normal sets taught are Tiger-Crane, Taming Tiger, Iron Wire, and Five-Animal Set"



Some Sets that GM Wong Kiew Kit claims to have learned(I do not know if these would be considered "Old Hung" or "Pre-WFH sets", but it is certainly possible.

"The kungfu sets I learned from Uncle Righteousness were as follows.

1.Tiger-Crane Double Form Set(Fu Hok Seong Ying Khuen - Cantonese pronunciation)
2.Dragon Strength Chi Circulation Set (Loong Lek Wan Hei Khuen)
3.Fifth-Brother Flag-Waving Long Staff (No Long Yew Kei Khuan)
4.Continuous Double Daggers (Lin Wan Seong Pei Sau)
5.Crossroad Southern Knives (Sap Tzi Seong Nam Tou)
6.108-Pattern Staff (Yiat Pak Ling Pat Tim Khuan)
7.Essence of Shaolin (Siu Lam Khuen Shuit Jing Wah)
I was extremely lucky. All the three unarmed sets, “Tiger-Crane”, “Dragon Strength” and “Essence of Shaolin” were Uncle Righteousness' treasures. “Essence of Shaolin”, a fantastic set but not well known because it was kept a secret, was Uncle Righteousness' best, one which a master normally transited to his successor. To quote my sijie, who is Uncle Righteousness' eldest daughter, which I still remember to this day, “Uncle Righteousness treats you (i.e. me) better than he treats his own sons”, for which I am forever grateful.


The legendary Shaolin Flower Set

From my kungfu brothers and sihooks in Uncle Righteousness lineage, I learned the following.

1.Great Majestic Set (Tai Hoong Khuen) But later I use its other name “Triple Stretch” (Sam Chin Khuen) because I also learn another version of Great Majestic Set from Sifu Ho Fatt Nam.
2.Shaolin Flower Set (Siu Lam Fa Khuen)
3.Cross-Road Throat-Locking Spear (Sap Tzi Sor Hou Cheong)
4.Green Dragon Crescent Moon Knife (Cheng Loong Yim Yuit Tou)
5.Three-Section Whip (Sam Chit Pin)
6.Golden Legume Copper Round Hammer (Kam Kwa Thoong Choui)
7.Kungfu Bench (Wang Tau Thang)
8.Travelling Dragon Spear (Yau Loong Cheong)
My second sifu was Sifu Chee Kim Thong, the patriarch of Wuzu Kungfu, who was considered a national treasure of China. However, I only learned for about two years in his school.

My third sifu was Sifu Ho Fatt Nam, the thrid generation successor from the Shaolin Temple at Quanzhow in South China. Sifu Ho Fatt Nam was the one who “enlightened” me in kungfu.

From Sifu Ho Fatt Nam I learned the following.

1.Shaolin Cross-Roads at Four Gates (Siu Lam Sap Tzi Seai Moon Khuen)
2.Shaolin Pakua Set (Siu Lam Pat Kwa Khuen)
3.Seven Stars (Chet Sing Khuen)
4.Ho Family Flowing Water Staff (Ho Ka Lau Sheui Khuan)
5.Great Majestic Set (Tai Hoong Khuen)
“Four Gates” was the treasure in Sifu Ho Fatt Nam lineage. Interestingly, like “Tiger-Crane” in Uncle Righteousness lineage, “Four Gates” was the first set taught to beginners, just as it was the first set taught to kungfu monks at the southern Shaolin Temple at Quanzhou in Fujian, as my sifu told me. As the practitioner progressed, his insight and application of “Four Gates” deepened. This made it such a fantastic set. It is simple in appearance but profound in philosophy and application.

From my kungfu brothers in Sifu Ho Fatt Nam lineage, I learned the following.

1.Shaolin Dragon Form Set (Siu Lam Loong Ying Khuen)
2.Great Bell Lohan Set (Tai Choong Lor Hon Khuen)


Profundity in Stark Simplicity in San Zhan of Wuzuquan

My fourth sifu was Sifu Choe Hoong Choy, the patriarch of Choe Family Wing Choon, from whom I learned the following sets.

1.Small Beginning (Siu Lin Tau), which also includes Searching for Bridges (Cham Kiew) and Thrusting Fingers (Phew Chew).
2.Flower Set (Fa Khuen)
3.Six-and-Half-Point Staff (Luk Tim Phoon Khuan)
4.Human-Character Knives (Yein Tzi Tou)
5.Tiger-Crane Double Form Srt (Fu Hok Seong Ying Khuen)
6.Essence of Fighting (Shui Ta)
7.Drunken Eight Immortals (Chui Pat Seen)
8.Choy-Li-Fatt (Choy-Li-Fatt)
9.Thirteen-Technique Spear (Sap Sam Cheong)
I had special privileges when I learned from Sifu Choe Hoong Choy. Because he treated me as an equal rather than as a disciple, he allowed me to choose whatever I liked to learn from him. Of course I chose to learn the best first. The best in Choe Family Wing Choon are Siu Lin Tau (which means “Little Beginning in Training”), Flower Set and Six-and-Half-Point Staff."




This is from a Q and A w/ Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit




"Now, we come to your questions proper. There was no contradiction why Chee Seen taught Luk Ah Choy at the Hoitung Monastery and not at the southern Shaolin Monastery. He might, or might not, have taught Luk Ah Choy this set at the Shaolin Monastery, but after the monastery was burnt and Chee Seen escaped to Guangdong, Lok Ah Choy often met up with his master.

Although Hoong Ka Kungfu is named in honour of Hoong Hei Khoon, most of Hoong Ka exponents today are descended from the lineage of Luk Ah Choy. Please note that Hoong Hei Khoon and Luk Ah Choy did not call their kungfu Hoong Ka, they called it Shaolin. "Hoong Ka" is a modern term; even as recent as Lam Sai Weng's time, which was about 50 years ago, what is now called Hoong Ka by many people was then called Shaolin."

[TenTigers]

Good point. Most people called it Siu Lum, or Fut Ga Lo Han Kuen. Or Siu Lum Hung Kuen. Hung-Ga is a more modern term. We like to refer to it as Siu Lum Hung Kuen.
One of my Sifus studied Deng family, and he also studied under Lei Yeu-San, who's lineage came from Luk Ah-Choy-as far as I remember.

[LaterthanNever]

Deng=Tang?

As in..Deng Fang=Tang Fung?

Is the connection to Lu ak Choy one of the reasons why the TF lineage does not have the Sup Ying Kuen..but instead uses the Ng Ying Kuen?

[Firehawk4]

Are you saying that what we know as Old Village Hung Ga Wong Fei Hung Hung Ga and all the Hung Ga s are some kind of Shaolin Lohan Kung Fu originally ?

[Xian]

Are you saying that what we know as Old Village Hung Ga Wong Fei Hung Hung Ga and all the Hung Ga s are some kind of Shaolin Lohan Kung Fu originally ?

I dont understand it nessecarly like that. In the first place Lohan is a Term. Maybe the called it like this in reference to the temple or the monks there. Monks try to acchive enlightment, to become a Lohan or Arhat, like it said in Sanskrit.But I am just guessing and also very interested to read more.

PS: @Flower Fist

Is this set anywhere on the Net ? I ask because we have in Weng Chun also a Fa Kuen set and I am interested to find out if there are any similarities in it. As we trace back our Weng Chun also to Chi Sim.


Kind regards,
Xian

[TenTigers]

Deng=Tang?

As in..Deng Fang=Tang Fung?

Is the connection to Lu ak Choy one of the reasons why the TF lineage does not have the Sup Ying Kuen..but instead uses the Ng Ying Kuen?

No, Lam Sai-Wing developed the sup ying kuen, putting more of his tiet sien kuen in the Dragon section, and more element punches. The snake and leopard sections are similar, but slightly different and the rest is almost identical.
Tang Fong line recognizes Hung Hei-Guen and then Luk Ah-Choy, Wong Kei-Ying, etc.
I had actually seen the omission of Hung Hei-Guen on a LSW site. Not sure which.

[Howard]

Chee Sim is a fairy tale...

Wong kiew kit using Fong Sai Yuk .... Unfortunately even more fairy tales...,

Shaolin as origin of hung kuen ..... a lot of nice shaw bros films.... But most likely a fairy tale

Sad

[Xian]

Chee Sim is a fairy tale...

Wong kiew kit using Fong Sai Yuk .... Unfortunately even more fairy tales...,

Shaolin as origin of hung kuen ..... a lot of nice shaw bros films.... But most likely a fairy tale

Sad

Ive learned that every Fairy Tale has some truth.


Kind regards,
Xian

[TenTigers]

Are you saying that what we know as Old Village Hung Ga Wong Fei Hung Hung Ga and all the Hung Ga s are some kind of Shaolin Lohan Kung Fu originally ?

I don't know if they actually are, that's just what they were actually called. ;)

[LaterthanNever]

"Is this set anywhere on the Net ? I ask because we have in Weng Chun also a Fa Kuen set and I am interested to find out if there are any similarities in it. As we trace back our Weng Chun also to Chi Sim."

Xian,

Not sure really. I'd say just go to youtube and see what comes up. Actually, Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit claims that Fa Kuen was the predecessor of Wing Chun. Which is interesting to see how there may be some overlap between Hung and WC.

TT,

"No, Lam Sai-Wing developed the sup ying kuen, putting more of his tiet sien kuen in the Dragon section, and more element punches."

Interesting. So Iron wire came before Sup Ying insofar as when it was invented?


"The snake and leopard sections are similar, but slightly different and the rest is almost identical."

One reason I was told that Tang Fung HG is different is something to the effect of..Tang Fung himself either said something like elements cannot be personified..

Or..

It was something like he(Tang Fung) had some difficulties in translating the idea of making elements into a cogent translation of how a person would lets say..manifest fire, or wood.

And I say that with no intent of wanting to be perceived as a troll. Honest.


"Tang Fong line recognizes Hung Hei-Guen and then Luk Ah-Choy, Wong Kei-Ying,"

Interesting indeed. Would this mean that TF Hung would have greater weight to the label of "pre-WFH" or I've heard it as "non WFH" lineage?(since it goes from HHG to LAC to WKY?


"I had actually seen the omission of Hung Hei-Guen on a LSW site. "

Wow..this seems almost the mirror image of what I asked above w/ the TF line!(as far as now the LSW folks don't mention HHG). Could LSW Hung them be called "pre-HHG Hung Ga"?

Hmmm..:confused:

[TenTigers]

well.....some TF schools like to refer to their HG as "orthodox," and LSW as "Modified."
Similar to how some WC schools like to refer to themselves as "traditional," and others as..um, not.

when it comes down to it, it's just marketing, and personal pride.
Not important in the grand scheme of things, just important enough to create bickering.

The best thing is to realize that all Hung-Ga is one family. Enjoy the differences, keep an open mind.

[Firehawk4]

What about Tit Kiu Sams Hung Ga does he have any students left that teaches his Hung Ga ? What other forms did Tit Kiu Sam teach ? Who where his teachers ?

[Indrafist]

well.....some TF schools like to refer to their HG as "orthodox," and LSW as "Modified."
Similar to how some WC schools like to refer to themselves as "traditional," and others as..um, not.

when it comes down to it, it's just marketing, and personal pride.
Not important in the grand scheme of things, just important enough to create bickering.

The best thing is to realize that all Hung-Ga is one family. Enjoy the differences, keep an open mind.

Well said as the truth.

[LaterthanNever]

Firehawk,

http://weito.org/lineage.htm

[PM]

well.....some TF schools like to refer to their HG as "orthodox," and LSW as "Modified."
Similar to how some WC schools like to refer to themselves as "traditional," and others as..um, not.

when it comes down to it, it's just marketing, and personal pride.
Not important in the grand scheme of things, just important enough to create bickering.

The best thing is to realize that all Hung-Ga is one family. Enjoy the differences, keep an open mind.

well said, TT!

[mickey]

Greetings,

I do not know if this was posted before. The performer has great intention. If each was done in one take, then I am very impressed. I never knew Hung Gar forms were this long.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzu1oVn2mAA&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lP-acRbxwpc&feature=related

Enjoy!

mickey

[ShaolinDan]

If they were done in one take, then the camera angle wouldn't change so much. Frankly, it looks to me like they played with the video speed as well.
It's a shame people with good kung fu can't be happy with what they have, but need to pretend it's off the charts.

[Subitai]

1st gut reaction of course is there is NO need for sound effects.

2nd, and this is just a theory.... this dude looks and moves like one of the MANY layman martial (some just touring doing shows) monks.

or like Gene once said to me back in 98'... "At any time Shaolin and the immediate surrounding area will have about 10,000 martial students all training in some way, shape or form" (something to that effect) = Well what I mean is, he looks like a product of all that hard work but someone has taught him some Hung.


Now, I would not dare to do a common Wing Chun arguing tatic IE...
if your WC doesn't look like mine then it's not real WC. (I give Sanjuro credit for that)

I can't say it's not Hung Gar forms, because they are basically and "To each his own I say". The 1st vid being Gung Gee... and the second Fu Hok...

All I needed to see was the opening salute moves and I kinda already know where he got his stuff from. Not all Hung's do those begining moves that way.

Technically speaking,
-It's a common misconception that Hung utilizes low and wide stances all the time. But what isn't or shouldn't be ignored is smooth and solid transition of the footwork, these should never be compromised just for the sake of being (or looking) very fast. I can move that fast easy...but my focus would be off.

- I think all the guys who actually study Hung (At least the traditional orthodox ones) will agree with me that the focus of his bridges was too rushed.

- Lastly, I cannot get past the wushu pacing PLUS so many other things...
Just my opinion only.

[omarthefish]

If they were done in one take, then the camera angle wouldn't change so much. Frankly, it looks to me like they played with the video speed as well.
It's a shame people with good kung fu can't be happy with what they have, but need to pretend it's off the charts.

Yeah. All the special effects are just goofy and really prevent me from taking the video seriously. :(

[ShaolinDan]

- I think all the guys who actually study Hung (At least the traditional orthodox ones) will agree with me that the focus of his bridges was too rushed.

- Lastly, I cannot get past the wushu pacing PLUS so many other things...
Just my opinion only.

It's sped up.

As far as sound effects...I watched it without sound the first time. Frickin' hilarious with sound.

[HungKuenH]

hung kuen sets played with wushu flavour...like a nan quan form

[Dragonzbane76]

Yes some of the Hung forms are pretty long.
Also these were not shot in one take. If you watch the background you see something don't match up. I think the speed on the camera might have been adjusted, can't really tell.

[EarthDragon]

Mickey... that form impressed you? may I was why other than the length? as others have said it wasnt really a form it was a cut and cropped speeded up part of a movie dragons of the orient

[David Jamieson]

wushufied hung kuen.
bodybuilding jings as opposed to correct jings.

sounds can be used to vibrate internally, but this guy was just making noise.

set one was gung gee fook fu kuen, set two was fu hok seurng ying kuen

you can play them like that if you desire, but by my reckoning and having seen some very excellent renditions of these moving concepts this is not a great demonstration of the style.

[mickey]

EarthDragon,

I really like the guy's intention. He has a sense of the opponent. I have seen people move without purpose TOO MANY TIMES. As to the forms themselves, I do not know them to comment on them.

I did notice the different camera angles. I assumed that there was more that one camera working.


mickey

[GeneChing]

1st gut reaction of course is there is NO need for sound effects. Come on now, bro. I have a fond memory of you and I watched a noted HG master's vid where he added sound effects in his applications, including the classic spine crackle when he did a neck break. And we loved it. :D


1st gut reaction of course is there is NO need for sound effects.

or like Gene once said to me back in 98'... "At any time Shaolin and the immediate surrounding area will have about 10,000 martial students all training in some way, shape or form" (something to that effect) = Well what I mean is, he looks like a product of all that hard work but someone has taught him some Hung. Something to that effect? :rolleyes: For the record, as of our last Shaolin Special (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=955), the population of full-time martial arts students in the Dengfeng area near to Shaolin is 60,000.

P.S. I'm moving this to the southern forum.

[TenTigers]

very realistic video game.
Strong horse.
Elbows indicate that it is an accomplished athlete performing a form as he was taught.

[SteveLau]

wushufied hung kuen.
bodybuilding jings as opposed to correct jings.

by David Jamieson


That is a quite correct description of the demos. It is not original Hung Kuen, and not exactly Wushu either. The speed, rthythm, energy and intention are not correct Hung Kuen in here and there. Sure, the guy is super strong, and I appreciate that. The demos are good for stage performance certainly.



Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

[PM]

translation of an old article about Lam Sai Wing and his weapon curriculum, first part! enjoy!

http://naamkyun.com/2011/12/how-lam-saiwing-learned-some-of-his-weapons-part-1-commander-sword/

[5thBrother]

Love your websites and work on sharing Hung Gar

Thanks!

[PM]

thnx, brother!

[PM]

translation of an old text - The Story of Hung Ga Grandmaster Lau Jaam, Part 1

http://naamkyun.com/2012/01/the-story-of-hung-ga-grandmaster-lau-jaam-part-1/

enjoy!

[Runlikehell]

Thanks for that. Always keen to hear more about Master Lau.

[Rolling Fists]

Youtube
Query: Hung Gar
Filter: This month
Result: get me off this planet


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRhjjHvdHMs

[Rolling Fists]

2 man contact form

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMcraQ4XnP0

There are more vids but I don't want to get banned for torturing our forum members.

[David Jamieson]

It's lack luster for sure.
It is weird.
I don't think of that when I think of Hung Kuen.

And in summary, My junk weighs more than that guy. :p

[madhusudan]

The two man set needs more twirling.

[lkfmdc]

You just want to think "this is a joke".... but deep down inside you know it isn't :cool:

worst verions of Lau Ga I have ever seen... and we are told this is his "2nd degree black belt" test.... imagine what he looked like when he was a beginner :eek:

[lkfmdc]

The two man set needs more twirling.

cow bell, imho, needs more cow bell

[5thBrother]

I'm wondering if the boy in the video has some kind of mental and/or physical disability (no.. seriously) and this his "best" to his ability?

Just the way he moves and sounds ...

Which would totally change the scenerio.

any videos of other students of that school?

[PM]

To find a crappy Hung Ga vid - that's very, very easy :-)

Find and post good one!

[lkfmdc]

To find a crappy Hung Ga vid - that's very, very easy :-)

Find and post good one!

well, if you insist


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YE4zz5YWglI

[PM]

Oh no, I think I know these guys, they still have to go looong way before it is any good. But I heard they are training hard, so we will see :-)

[HungKuenH]

Oh no, I think I know these guys, they still have to go looong way before it is any good. But I heard they are training hard, so we will see :-)

no need to be humble about your guys they are doing great....

[PM]

Thank you brother!

I personally think there are two roads to go - either to the museum (and extinction), or 21st century (full contact fighting, reality-based self-defense)! We have many examples to follow, and many similar open-minded persons who see it in the same light, so i sincerely hope for a TCMA revival!

[dcrjradmonish]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY1jWVN7OIU

[Subitai]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY1jWVN7OIU

That is quite unfortunate for Sharif. But I still have respect for him and the good he does in his community.

What sucks is how the world (the uneducated armchair judging world) will judge him by this one video.

The fact is...what happened to him could happen to anybody or "any style".

The poster of that video callously wrote:
MMA fighter knockout hung gar master sharif bey in fight! This Kung Fu Master is the best example of the "classical mess" that Bruce Lee was railing against. Typical of most traditional Kung Fu styles that cannot grasp the "real" dynamics of combat whether for sport or the street.

Sorry to get on a soap box but this is a very passionate subject for me:
Which is why my 2nd quote on the bottom of all my posts has been a Similar Topic for me since Kung Fu Magazine bought the name list from "Rec.Martial arts" (feels like more than 10 yrs ago)


- I have been an outspoken person for HG and any other (traditional Style) that needs to address the issues of modern fighting and how to blend with TMA.

- Having done MMA, Traditional Kung Fu and a good share of street fights: I believe I have a strong knowledge on to bridge the gap (Pun intended) between them all.

- I know how to do it and it works.

Mabe now, more people will listen.

MASS Props to sharif for steppin' out...

[PM]

You either win, or you learn. No shame in getting knocked-out, happened to us all - and if it never happened to YOU, you were never fighting.

[TenTigers]

we don't really know the back story that led to this.

[David Jamieson]

I agree with "O" on this.
He got popped on the button and that can happen to anyone.

[sanjuro_ronin]

While I agree that on any given day anyone can have his ass handed to them ( been there done it and had it done to me), I don't understand what he thought he was doing there a few times...
High chin, arms out, open, I am surprised He didn't get clipped just for those cardinal sins.
As for getting hit when trying to get up, what happens just showed his lack of experience in that situation, that's all.
I am sure he learned His lesson and it won't happen again.

[David Jamieson]

While I agree that on any given day anyone can have his ass handed to them ( been there done it and had it done to me), I don't understand what he thought he was doing there a few times...
High chin, arms out, open, I am surprised He didn't get clipped just for those cardinal sins.
As for getting hit when trying to get up, what happens just showed his lack of experience in that situation, that's all.
I am sure he learned His lesson and it won't happen again.

It's a lot easier to see water when you aren't the fish that is in it though. :D

[sanjuro_ronin]

It's a lot easier to see water when you aren't the fish that is in it though. :D

You got that right, LOL !

[Jimbo]

That is quite unfortunate for Sharif. But I still have respect for him and the good he does in his community.

What sucks is how the world (the uneducated armchair judging world) will judge him by this one video.

The fact is...what happened to him could happen to anybody or "any style".

The poster of that video callously wrote:
MMA fighter knockout hung gar master sharif bey in fight! This Kung Fu Master is the best example of the "classical mess" that Bruce Lee was railing against. Typical of most traditional Kung Fu styles that cannot grasp the "real" dynamics of combat whether for sport or the street.

I agree that it's easy for a non-participant (the guy who posted the vid) to point to one moment in time of an individual and then make sweeping judgments about that person and his entire MA. Then, like some religious zealot, post comments that bends what happened to fit into his (her?) narrow viewpoint. When I read that guy's comments, I heard them in a whiny geek voice in my head. If every person that had a poor showing were proof that their MA sucked, then every MA on the planet would suck. He got caught, but it was a learning experience for him. I give him credit for stepping up...certainly far more credit than the guy who posted the vid. Any real MAist has had their rear end handed to them now and then (and vice versa), and if they haven't, then they have never really trained or sparred/fought with anyone.

That said, I also couldn't understand what the Sifu was doing with his arms all open. It looked as though he was intending to go light/moderate, while the MMA guy was there to fight. Difference in intent.

[SoCo KungFu]

whether or not he is representative of the art as a whole isn't the argument you all should be arguing against. Some will make that case, those people aren't worth your while. The argument you should be concerned with is that he is, whether deserving or no, considered an expert it seems within HG circles. And he was bested, it appears on this film (ignoring for the moment potential editing), rather easily by someone who appears to be an average anonymous MMA guy. Average MMA guy bests expert HG guy. That's what this appears like. The truth of that may be different. But that's the real argument that you should be dealing with.

[sanjuro_ronin]

whether or not he is representative of the art as a whole isn't the argument you all should be arguing against. Some will make that case, those people aren't worth your while. The argument you should be concerned with is that he is, whether deserving or no, considered an expert it seems within HG circles. And he was bested, it appears on this film (ignoring for the moment potential editing), rather easily by someone who appears to be an average anonymous MMA guy. Average MMA guy bests expert HG guy. That's what this appears like. The truth of that may be different. But that's the real argument that you should be dealing with.


Perhaps and, looking only at the "facts", that is what happened.

[SoCo KungFu]

Perhaps and, looking only at the "facts", that is what happened.

Then the better options to address this matter (or not address, possibly an equivalent option) are then apparent, no?

All we ever have to look at are "facts."

[sanjuro_ronin]

Then the better options to address this matter (or not address, possibly an equivalent option) are then apparent, no?

All we ever have to look at are "facts."


Well, I think it was pretty clear that, aside from the fact that anyone can have his ass KO'd, that he was a bit silly with his "arm waving" and high chin BUT more directly related to his KO, He should have been more aware of how he one gets up from the ground in the middle of a fight.
He was clearly not protecting himself when he got clipped.

[PalmStriker]

:) Guy with boxing gloves uses boxing style to put the bop on dude's melon.
Guy who forgot to bring his gloves realizes what boxing gloves are for.

[SoCo KungFu]

Well, I think it was pretty clear that, aside from the fact that anyone can have his ass KO'd, that he was a bit silly with his "arm waving" and high chin BUT more directly related to his KO, He should have been more aware of how he one gets up from the ground in the middle of a fight.
He was clearly not protecting himself when he got clipped.

I agree with all of the above, but I don't think it need be that detailed. Its really down to this. Is he an expert? If not, is he fight competent? If you answer no to either of the above, then your previous post is justification for that answer. If the answer is no, how does he get there? By doing what he's doing (mixing up outside his style)? I would say, if not a total fix, its probably a pretty good step in the right direction at least. Then the matter is, other than academics, settled yes?

As for the detail, the above, to me, can be summarized that it looked like he was thinking more about how to be a "hung gar" fighter than about actually fighting what was in front of him.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I agree with all of the above, but I don't think it need be that detailed. Its really down to this. Is he an expert? If not, is he fight competent? If you answer no to either of the above, then your previous post is justification for that answer. If the answer is no, how does he get there? By doing what he's doing (mixing up outside his style)? I would say, if not a total fix, its probably a pretty good step in the right direction at least. Then the matter is, other than academics, settled yes?

As for the detail, the above, to me, can be summarized that it looked like he was thinking more about how to be a "hung gar" fighter than about actually fighting what was in front of him.

You may have a valid point.
None of us know what was going on in His head of course BUT they could have been the case.
If so, it is understandable because, no matter what, we kung fu guys would always prefer that we look like our style when we fight. That is kind of the point of doing a style, right?
That said, it should be noted that the distinct flavour of any style is more noticeable the LESS trained our opponent is OR if our opponent is of the same style.

[Subitai]

Hey guys...happy new year and all!

So on the Sharif fight, I did learn a couple interesting facts. Well, one I almost forgot about.

1st) I think Sharif was crazy to accept that challenge in his state. He probably wouldn't say it publicly but I pretty sure he had some of his intestines on the outside of his body still. Literally his guts in a bag. Reason I know this is because I had seen him for an event prior in Boston and he had some sort of abdominal infection go SEPTIC and he showed me his guts in a medical bag out side his body under his shirt. Little bit bigger than a Ziplock sized bag but laid flat on his stomach. I said, "Dude that's gross man!"

I fairly certain he must have been acting off ego or GUTS ( pun intended ) but if that was me, I would've waited till I had all my internals INSIDE my body. He's just plain crazy!

2nd) The dude brought gloves with him? Who does that, it's almost as if he was gunning for him? Or he just came from the gym? haha. Was it politics or did someone have an agenda and send a ringer ?

Anyway...well said Jimbo on this:
If every person that had a poor showing were proof that their MA sucked, then every MA on the planet would suck

[SoCo KungFu]

You may have a valid point.
None of us know what was going on in His head of course BUT they could have been the case.
If so, it is understandable because, no matter what, we kung fu guys would always prefer that we look like our style when we fight. That is kind of the point of doing a style, right?
That said, it should be noted that the distinct flavour of any style is more noticeable the LESS trained our opponent is OR if our opponent is of the same style.

I think this is the first time I've seen you reference yourself as a kung fu person. Not that you couldn't have before, I've been out of the loop a good while now on this forum due to grad research mess. Just a meaningless observation on my part.

[SoCo KungFu]

Hey guys...happy new year and all!

So on the Sharif fight, I did learn a couple interesting facts. Well, one I almost forgot about.

1st) I think Sharif was crazy to accept that challenge in his state. He probably wouldn't say it publicly but I pretty sure he had some of his intestines on the outside of his body still. Literally his guts in a bag. Reason I know this is because I had seen him for an event prior in Boston and he had some sort of abdominal infection go SEPTIC and he showed me his guts in a medical bag out side his body under his shirt. Little bit bigger than a Ziplock sized bag but laid flat on his stomach. I said, "Dude that's gross man!"

I fairly certain he must have been acting off ego or GUTS ( pun intended ) but if that was me, I would've waited till I had all my internals INSIDE my body. He's just plain crazy!

2nd) The dude brought gloves with him? Who does that, it's almost as if he was gunning for him? Or he just came from the gym? haha. Was it politics or did someone have an agenda and send a ringer ?

Anyway...well said Jimbo on this:

1) Speculation; you have no way to substantiate this. Time frame is important. These procedures can be quite temporary. It's also a pretty improper to out someone's personal medical history like this to the public. Even if he did let it be known himself. Not your place. Particularly when its of next to zero relevance to the topic.

2)
Who does that
People who spar. People who come prepared for a match.

[GeneChing]

Michael Goodwin's demonstration at our KUNG FU TAI CHI 25TH ANNIVERSARY FESTIVAL (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?69762-KUNG-FU-TAI-CHI-25TH-ANNIVERSARY-FESTIVAL-May-19-21-2017-San-Jose-CA) compliments his article, The Plum Blossom Double Chain Whips of Hung Ga Kung Fu By Michael Goodwin in the SEP+OCT 2017 issue (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=1368).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c1zyxEQ_BY

Hung Gar (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?50150-Hung-Gar) at the KUNG FU TAI CHI 25TH ANNIVERSARY FESTIVAL (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?69762-KUNG-FU-TAI-CHI-25TH-ANNIVERSARY-FESTIVAL-May-19-21-2017-San-Jose-CA)

[GeneChing]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gnyh6dNOi4s

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/images/mzine/Cov2008_1.jpg

January+February 2008 (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=738)

Hung Gar (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?50150-Hung-Gar) at the KUNG FU TAI CHI 25TH ANNIVERSARY FESTIVAL (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?69762-KUNG-FU-TAI-CHI-25TH-ANNIVERSARY-FESTIVAL-May-19-21-2017-San-Jose-CA)

[GeneChing]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0Bu-BZ9mOA

Hung Gar (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?50150-Hung-Gar) at the KUNG FU TAI CHI 25TH ANNIVERSARY FESTIVAL (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?69762-KUNG-FU-TAI-CHI-25TH-ANNIVERSARY-FESTIVAL-May-19-21-2017-San-Jose-CA)

[GeneChing]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TDzqYWe88M

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/images/mzine/COV2011_02.jpg

MARCH+APRIL 2011 (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=944)

Hung Gar (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?50150-Hung-Gar) at the KUNG FU TAI CHI 25TH ANNIVERSARY FESTIVAL (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?69762-KUNG-FU-TAI-CHI-25TH-ANNIVERSARY-FESTIVAL-May-19-21-2017-San-Jose-CA)

[GeneChing]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adBG9av3Ics


The November December 2017 (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70404-November-December-2017) issue featuring Hung Gar (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?50150-Hung-Gar) @ KUNG-FU-TAI-CHI-25TH-ANNIVERSARY-FESTIVAL (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?69762-KUNG-FU-TAI-CHI-25TH-ANNIVERSARY-FESTIVAL-May-19-21-2017-San-Jose-CA)

[GeneChing]

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/admin/site_images/KungfuMagazine/upload/3922_KFM201706-December-Cover.jpg

The NOVEMBER+DECEMBER 2017 issue Cover Story: Fierce Tiger Descending the Mountain (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=1384) by Gene Ching is available for free online.

[GeneChing]

Here's an exclusive extra from NOVEMBER+DECEMBER 2017 (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=1380) issue Cover Story (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=1384): Robin Leong on Acting, Teaching, and His Renowned Kung Fu Father (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=1387) by Gene Ching - available for free online.

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/admin/site_images/KungfuMagazine/upload/3922_KFM201706-December-Cover.jpg

[GeneChing]

Anyone know her? I've heard of her dad (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?50467-Mark-Houghton-insights-of-a-hk-stuntman).


http://rough.asia/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/37791095_960787534082542_4241471515528265728_o.jpg

CHARLENE HOUGHTON: KUNG FU BLOODLINE (http://rough.asia/analysis/charlene-houghton-kung-fu-bloodline/)
Frances Watthanaya 29 August 2018

Hong Kong’s own Charlene Houghton is bringing the old school back to mainstream martial arts.

The 28 year old actress has been practicing traditional Hung Gar Kung Fu since she was 14 and is currently in the works to debut her stand up skills to the world with GLORY Kickboxing.

Charlene is much more than just a martial arts practitioner, Kung Fu is literally in her bloodline. Daughter of the legendary Hung Gar master, actor, stuntman, and fight choreographer, Mark Houghton, better known as “Ho-Mak” in China, Charlene has been watching her father’s movements since birth.

“My first true experience in Kung Fu was at the age of five. My father encouraged me to stretch and copy his Kung Fu movements as an activity, nothing formal or traditional. He just wanted me to enjoy Kung Fu for myself,” Charlene tells ROUGH.

“I loved it, and I remember being really excited when I took part in a short martial arts documentary with my father for a TV show. Unfortunately, my father stopped teaching me Kung Fu because I kicked a boy and made his nose bleed when I was in kindergarten.”

Charlene Houghton, Kung Fu Fighter, GLORY Kickboxing, Hong Kong

http://rough.asia/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/12814076_10153955268657528_8831292123219551527_n.j pg
I WANT TO SHOW PEOPLE THAT KUNG FU IS NOT ONLY FOR PERFORMANCE BUT IS EFFECTIVE IN AN ACTUAL FIGHT.

It wasn’t until she was 14 that she took it up again, and since then hasn’t stopped. She is classically trained in the traditional Hung Gar Kung Fu lineage.

Training under her father, Charlene was also privileged enough to have worked with her grandmaster, the late Lau Kar Leung. Lau Kar Leung was a famous Hong Kong-based Chinese actor, filmmaker, action choreographer, and martial artist.

She continued to follow her father’s footsteps into the movies and works regularly in the local film scene both in Hong Kong and in China. She’s also dedicated to Kung Fu training, her fitness regime and is working as a personal trainer.

When it comes to the movies, Charlene sees it as a platform to help preserve Hung Gar Kung Fu.

“My grandmaster wrote his last movie script before he passed away. My father and I decided to continue his dream and bring the script back to life on the big screen. Introduce this traditional martial art to the whole world before it disappears.”

That same mentality has now brought her to GLORY, where she hopes to lead the way in helping traditional martial arts make a successful transition to modern combat sports such as kickboxing and MMA.

“I want to show people that Kung Fu is not only for performance but is effective in an actual fight.”

Despite her extensive experience in martial arts, Charlene will definitely be going into GLORY as an underdog. She’s technically only fought a handful of times, whereas most of the other women on the roster come from stand-up fighting backgrounds.

http://rough.asia/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Margie-Kwok-and-Charlene-Houghton.jpg
Margie kwok and Charlene Houghton at E-1 World Championship.

In 2015, Charlene had her first fight when when she starred in a Hong Kong based reality TV show about eight female fighters from different martial arts backgrounds who were brought together to compete in MMA.

The show was played out for two years during which time Charlene beat out her opposition and won the championship. Since then, she hasn’t been in a cage or a ring as she has been focusing on her movie career and traditional training. Charlene knows what’s at stake stepping through those ropes, but the Eurasian is ready for the challenge.

“I believe I will be a top fighter in kickboxing and will even be a contender for the title in the near future. I would like to prove that as a female action artist I can fight for real too.”

Once she goes pro, Charlene intends to devote all of her time to training. She admits that her lifestyle will change drastically, but knows that complete focus will be needed for her to succeed.

Despite switching to kickboxing, Charlene will continue to train Kung Fu with her father. She will most likely travel to China to train at the Xi’an Sports University where she has spent extended periods of time training in the past.

“Besides basic skills, footwork, and stamina, I am focusing a lot on sparring. I spar with everyone of different genders, weights, and sizes.”

With the pressure of lineage and family honour riding on a successful professional debut, the fight is more than just a win to add to her record. A daughter’s devotion to a proud tradition of Kung Fu demands more and will not settle for less.

[David Jamieson]

One Chiu deserves another :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To3rwzddeIA

[David Jamieson]

Here's another :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGFDDnGcYIU

[GeneChing]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e4bXd1uYmw

THREADS
Winter 2019 (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?71074-Winter-2019)
Hung Gar (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?50150-Hung-Gar)

[GeneChing]

Mad props to this guy. :cool:


Kung fu taught a boy to walk. That was 60 years ago. Look at him now (http://www.asiaone.com/health/kung-fu-taught-boy-walk-was-60-years-ago-look-him-now)

http://www.asiaone.com/sites/default/files/styles/700x500/public/original_images/Dec2018/kungfu_garyplayer.JPG?itok=qmfUVMuy
PHOTO: Graham Player
NAN-HIE IN
SOUTH CHINA MORNING POST Dec 18, 2018

Graham Player has six decades of martial arts under his belt. His muscular build, mental acuity, and ability to lead three-hour classes set him apart from most other senior citizens.

The silver-haired Player practises the Hung Gar form of kung fu, and is a walking advertisement for how beneficial this has been to his fitness.

He readily admits he does not connect with most elderly people. “I don’t identify with people my age, they look like they are from another generation to me both physically and mentally,” Player says. He refrains from giving his exact age.

Not many people of his advanced years lead gruelling three-hour classes that begin with a warm-up followed by high-intensity interval training, in which attendees alternate between heart-pumping exercises and seven seconds of rest. Next is sit-ups – 200 of them sometimes, followed by kung fu stances. The kicker? He does this five times a week.

https://cdn4.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2018/12/17/d6711eb2-fec6-11e8-93b7-146c6b325962_1320x770_165546.JPG

Player founded his Hung Kuen Academy Hong Kong in the 1990s, based in a community centre in Tai Kok Tsui, West Kowloon, where he teaches this style of martial arts to young and old, and Bruce Lee wannabes. Only recently has he begun teaching one-hour sessions to foreigners in Mui Wo on Lantau Island.

He recognises that in Hong Kong – where people are generally motivated by money, success and the need for saving face – health and fitness are not most people’s top aspirations. “You have a society that … thinks we are indestructible at a personal level and can just keep going, doing what we are doing and make money and we will be fine,” he said.

Even when sickness hits many in mid-life, they tend to visit doctors for a convenient fix so they can simply resume their old way of life. Player says the Western medicine approach in treating symptoms rather than addressing the cause, plus not doing enough to prevent diseases, highlights the system’s limitations.

https://cdn2.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2018/12/17/b527370a-fec6-11e8-93b7-146c6b325962_1320x770_165546.JPG

How martial arts came into his life and revolutionised his health could be the plot for a Marvel Comics film. A congenital disability resulting in a poorly functioning right hip meant the Australian was wheelchair-bound as early as he can recall. At five years old, his father, a doctor, contemplated surgery to liberate his child from the wheelchair, but feared he would always walk with a limp afterwards.

The young boy spoke to his neighbour, a Chinese medicine practitioner surnamed Chan, who convinced the father he could fix the handicap without surgery.

For years Chan worked on the child to restore movement in his weak leg, with legwork exercises, much kung fu stance work – including the horse stance (in which the legs support the rest of the body), massages, plus other practices related to traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) that helped strengthen and invigorate Player.


Do different types of exercises to protect the vehicle in which you exist so it can be functioning properly
In the 1950s, the then 12-year-old walked into Chan’s Hung Gar studio. “I saw all these people doing my exercises, then I saw the weapons,” he said. That was when he realised his means of rehabilitation was Chinese kung fu. Through Hung Gar, Player was finally able to walk independently at 16. When he was 18, just before his mentor Chan passed away, Player pledged to continue practising martial arts and pass it on to others.

Hung Gar is perhaps lesser known than other Chinese martial arts styles made prominent in pop culture, such as wing chun (popularised by martial arts stars such as Bruce Lee and Donnie Yen Ji-dan). Wing chun is a southern Chinese style. So is Hung Gar. According to Player, southern Chinese tend to be shorter than northerners, so southern styles focus on low stances and how to produce dynamic power.

His favourite routine is “iron wire fist”, performed to “develop your inner and external strength to produce power”. Player adds: “It’s all about creating in your body something like a piece of wire that is extremely strong, all based on the principles of qi gong.”

https://cdn2.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2018/12/17/e4f933fc-fec6-11e8-93b7-146c6b325962_1320x770_165546.JPG

Practising kung fu for years makes one mindful of one’s body and health too. “All this activity leads to the mind-body relationship: as you age, you think you can’t do this as well as before … you look at what’s going on in your body, what’s changing, and that leads you to health,” he said.

In martial arts, though, the mind-body relationship and health are inseparable concepts.

Raised by a father who was a doctor, but having experienced TCM and martial arts early in life, Player absorbed knowledge from both realms. He acquired a doctorate in Western health sciences, and became a licensed TCM practitioner in Hong Kong and Australia. He believes combining both systems delivers amazing health benefits.

"I’m the sort of guy that is never superficial, if I do something, it’s on a really deep level," he says. Player went deep down that proverbial rabbit hole for years to come up with his own health model that incorporates both paradigms.

His "Five Habits of Wellness" are:

1. Activity

2. Diet

3. Social interaction and intimacy

4. Mental state

5. Rest and relaxation

His approach to activity is to encourage regular participation in physical fitness exercises, and the setting of objectives for your body so that you push to attain them.

If you want to be flexible and supple, for example, work on a full range of motions such as stretching and movements that work on all the joints. If you want a healthy heart and lungs, practise aerobic exercises such as running and skipping to get both systems pumping. If you want to preserve muscle mass as you age, weight-bearing exercises are essential.

https://cdn2.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2018/12/17/8eb5ed5a-fec6-11e8-93b7-146c6b325962_1320x770_165546.JPG

“Do different types of exercises to protect the vehicle in which you exist so it can be functioning properly,” Player says.

As for social interaction and intimacy, he says it is vital to engage in both; as social animals we need them to survive. But be mindful of the people you engage with.

“Do I want to interact with a 70-year-old who does not have a very balanced outlook on life and keeps telling me about the good old days and does not agree with [the ubiquity of] mobile phones and Facebook,” he asks rhetorically.

Player has no interest in socialising with such people. He is a proponent of embracing change and moving along with the world.

Also, he urges people to safeguard intimacy. “We depend on other people for our existence so that’s an important part. You need to protect it as you get older.”

As for mental state, he says, have the right outlook, otherwise life is not satisfying. Spirituality can help. “You need to have some belief system that may or may not involve going to church or worshipping.”

Rest and relaxation are essential habits, too, particularly getting enough sleep. Eating a healthy diet is of paramount importance. Instead of just focusing on the Western approach of food’s nutritional or chemical compositions, incorporate other aspects, such as the Chinese medicine approach that food is medicine.

“Whatever you eat, be mindful of what it is going to do in your body and what your body may need at that particular time,” the vegetarian advises.

Pay attention to the quality of food in your diet. Eat seasonal produce, for example, he says. Overall, prioritise wellness and fitness as everyday practices.

https://cdn1.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2018/12/17/a5ecfcac-fec6-11e8-93b7-146c6b325962_1320x770_165546.JPG

Player credits Hung Gar and TCM for shaping his model of living. “I grew up in a Western medical family where it’s all about the material aspects of medicine … yet I was made better by someone who didn’t use chemicals, drugs or physical operations … it was all about energy.”

Before he and his wife Karen Ho depart for a shoot, with a Kwan Dou sword in tow, Player leaves behind a final thought. “You think of kung fu as Bruce Lee and fighting … kung fu is actually a Buddhist term meaning ‘any dedicated activity towards achieving mindfulness’; that was the original meaning of the word – not fighting.”

[GeneChing]

READ The Steady Bridge of Y.C. Wong By Kurtis Fujita in our WINTER 2019 issue (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=1446). Available digitally too via Zinio (https://www.zinio.com/publisher/kung-fu-tai-chi-m5078).

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/admin/site_images/KungfuMagazine//images/mcover/201901winter.jpg

[GeneChing]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyBNXYdUUAAKwhb.jpg:large

This one is kind of different than our usual memes. GM Y.C. Wong didn't say any succinct quotes that were very meme-able, but I just couldn't resist this particular quote. It's just so old skool, right?

THREADS
Winter 2019 (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?71074-Winter-2019)
Hung Gar (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?50150-Hung-Gar)

[PalmStriker]

:) Happy Master Practice Dummy. ;)

[GeneChing]

SPRING 2019 (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=1472)

Cover Story: Traditional Hung Gar and the Modern Shaolin Monk (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=1478) By Gene Ching

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/admin/site_images/KungfuMagazine/upload/4338_KFM2019-Spring.jpg

[GeneChing]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIjw1uOf47c

THREADS
2019 Tiger Claw Elite Championships (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?71001-2019-Tiger-Claw-Elite-Championships-amp-KUNG-FU-TAI-CHI-DAY-May-18-19-San-Jose-CA)
Hung Gar (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?50150-Hung-Gar)
November+December 2017 (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70404-November-December-2017)

[GeneChing]

Hung Ga’s Fan
The Fine Art of Firmness and Flexibility
By Peter Pena

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/admin/site_images/KungfuMagazine/upload/4575_KFM2019-Summer-Cover.jpg
SUMMER 2019 (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=1487)

[GeneChing]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=TjlMREYxIQs
83 year-old martial artist promotes Kung Fu in Hong Kong: "The heritage is very important."

Wong-Fei-Hung (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?22478-Wong-Fei-Hung)
Give-it-up-to-the-elderly!!!!! (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?57037-Give-it-up-to-the-elderly!!!!!)
Hung-Gar (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?50150-Hung-Gar)