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blade
05-18-2000, 07:28 PM
The last thread was getting a bit too long, so i tought of starting a new one and here we are.

In the last thread we mentioned the common and well known weapons of Hung Gar. How about the other less known/practiced weapons such as the horse bench, daggers, chain whip..etc?

How about the 10 favourite hand techniques used by famous Wong Fei Hung? What do you think they are?
And also how about a disscussion on the famous 12 bridges of hung gar?

illusionfist
05-22-2000, 07:13 AM
I have seen an umbrella form that was performed by my friends sifu. It definitely has hung gar flare to it, it also has a lot of carry over from broadsword techniques. The form is called Wong Fei Hung Umbrella (sorry don't know the chinese name for the form).

I have also been exposed to a hung gar bench form, but it is in no way as fanciful as the stuff we see Jackie and Sammo doing, but that's ok.

I would love to learn a hung gar dagger form!!! But when i think about it, you can easily use butterfly sword techniques with the daggers.

Peace /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

blade
05-22-2000, 08:21 PM
Hi

Intresting. I have never actualy seen an umbrella form myself but heard about it. It would make a practical weapon. I think the way its used(application) maybe similar to
the walking stick (another unusal weapon which is extremly practical to use. As they both have similar shape.
The bench form like you said is nothing fancy to look at. But i think its a pretty unusal and intresting weapon which requires strenght and coordination. Its a shame that there ae not many people know or practice this unusal weapon.
I dont think there is a hung gar dagger form well at least not to my knowldge.However Saying that i have seen some hung gar practicioners use this weapon.
Has anyone else seen or know a dagger form or other not well known weapons?

05-30-2000, 09:47 AM
We have one Sifu who is absolutely awesome to watch practice chain whip forms. I don't know if it's hung gar or black tiger combat.We learn both at the same time. We have a cane form and techniques we practice them at half speed because they're really dangerous. They're great because they take very little power.(Like..you know I don't want to mess up my hair) It has more to do with leverage. You really could use the cane or umbrella as an old or crippled person quite visciously. As far as the chain whip are you kidding! It's half my weight& about 2ft longer than me.But Jackie Chan looked pretty good doing the techniques with the rope & horseshoe in Shanghai Noon. The out takes are probably what I would look like.

madmex
06-01-2000, 02:16 AM
I have seen a Hung Gar Umbrella form as well as a Hung Gar Dagger form. The dagger form is done as a two man form, a quite pretty form and yet powerful as any other Hung Gar form. The person who starts the the form with the dagger is dis-armed 1/2 way through and the roles are reversed. This results in each person performing most of the same moves in both attack and defense.

blade
06-02-2000, 09:37 PM
Hi

How about the 10 famous hand techniques Wong Fei Hong? What do you think they are? I have heard people mention different ones, so i would be intrested to hear what u all think?

Je Lei Sifu
06-06-2000, 06:45 AM
Hi Blade

If I may, I would like to touch on both issues, Hung Gar weapons and the 10 famous hand techniques of Master Wong Fei Hung. I am a senior student of Cheung Shu Pui Sifu who learned his gung fu from Ho Lap Tin Sigung. Ho Lap Tin is one of Tang Fung top students. In our curriculum, we learn several solo weapon sets as well as two-man weapon sets. the weapons we learn are: 1.Hun Je Pon(monkey stick) 2.Jaw sao moy fa churn(left-hand plum blossom spear) 3.Siu Lum Dan Do(we have two different sets for this weapon) 4.Gum Gon Gim(Golden Hard Sword) 5.Gow wan do(nine ring do) 6.Sam Jeet kwan(3-sectional staff) 7.Lung Fu Chal Tao(dragon/tiger farmer's hoe) 8.Tit Yip Sin(iron leaf fan) 9.lung fu san(dragon/tiger umbrella) 10.Kiu Don(bench) 11.Sune Bun Gwai(Sune Bun's Cane) 12.Gee Mo Seung Do(mother and son double swords) 13 Yiu Ga Dih Pah(Yiu Family big fork) 14.Ng long Bat gwa kwun(5th brother 8 triagram staff) 15.Ching Lung Yim Yut Do(Green Dragon looking at the Moon Sword/Guan Do) 16. Fook Fu Bean(taming tiger whip) 17.Poon Lung seung bean(Whirling Dragon double whip) 18.Dan do bean(sword and steel whip). We also teach two-man sets for these weapons as well as defense against single dagger and double dagger. My sifu doesn't teach a double dagger set. However his Sidi in Hong Kong does. As far as Wong Fei Hung's 10 techniques are concerned, you have. Ching Ji Sao (thousand shape hands), Wu dip Jeung(butterfly palms), Fu Jao(tiger claw) Hok ying(crane shape), Mo ying geuk(shadowless kick) Chut sing lin wan kuen faht(seven star connecting fist technique). I apologize, at this time my memory has failed me. When I have the chance, I will get the info for you. Once again I apologize.

blade
06-06-2000, 06:13 PM
Thanks Je Lei

No need to apologise as you have posted very usefull info here.
Regarding the daggers, as far as i know dagers are not original hung gar weapons, however it must have been added in hung gar and as i recently found out now its practiced it by only couple of different lineages of hung gar. Saying that i still havent seen or heard anyone practice a sole dagger form. Only as two men form. illusionfist has pointed out that dagger techniques can be done by the butterfly swords. I agree with this to a certain point but not completly. Butterfly knives are alot heavier and are used in a diffrent way then the dagger which are alot lighter and flexible than the butefly knives.

got to go now. I ll post more ifo next time.

Blade

Paul Skrypichayko
06-07-2000, 10:24 AM
Regarding daggers; I think that Chan Hon Chung lineage has daggers in form practice, and 2 man form practice. I'm not 100% sure though. Lai Ng Sam lineage also uses Mok style dagger.

Butterfly swords may be a bit similar to daggers, but I think it is also close to double broadswords.

There are two main types of dagger as well, one is like a "do" the other is like "gim". Both are used very differently.

illusionfist
06-07-2000, 12:07 PM
If you ever get to see the ha say fu butterfly sword set, you will see what i mean. The swords are flipped very much like the double daggers, and in some instances the swords are held in a reverse grip utilizing elbow techniques that coincide with upward cuts.

Peace /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

molum_jr
06-07-2000, 02:45 PM
And don't forget the "Tiger Shields" Set and the "Sai" Set...

hasayfu
06-08-2000, 04:37 AM
Hi all,

Just got back from visiting my Si-Gung Chiu Wai. It was a great trip.

Regarding the daggers, he has a single dagger form. It is definitely not an adapted butterfly knive set. It has many moves similar to the bei shaolin dagger form but is a hung gar form and taught by Lam Sai Wing. I did not ask about a sparring set with daggers.

In line with Paul's comment, these are double edged daggers and the set involves two daggers. Si-Gung had a pair that was like the double Gim where the handles fit with each other.

I'll address other topics in a seperate thread.

Paul Skrypichayko
06-08-2000, 08:17 AM
hasayfu, how was your trip to Calgary? I haven't met Chiu Wei yet, can you tell me about him, like personality, kung fu, etc.

Thanks

hasayfu
06-08-2000, 10:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Paul Skrypichayko:
hasayfu, how was your trip to Calgary? I haven't met Chiu Wei yet, can you tell me about him, like personality, kung fu, etc.

Thanks[/quote]

What can I say. He is 69 years old and moves like he's 20. He is buff and looks like all his pictures. He is a very caring guy and gives to the community.

The one thing is wary of, is so many people try to visit him because they hear of him on the internet. He doesn't speak any english so usually has his son do most of the interaction with outsiders.

Any specific questions?

Jan Seung
06-17-2003, 11:47 AM
What characteristics makes Hung Gar good (or bad) (i.e. how do you see if someone is a good master or not)?

David Jamieson
06-17-2003, 11:48 AM
Tremendous upper body strength, forearms like steel and a horse stance that is as rooted as a tree.

That and all the other stuff :D

cheers

iron thread
06-17-2003, 11:02 PM
If you can't tell that someone is a good master, then the person probably isn't. Even when faking, the master will slip something. If you are rooted, you are rooted, that simple. Root, by the way, is one main characteristic of hung gar.

jmd161
06-17-2003, 11:18 PM
I'm with Kung Lek on this one.

If he does'nt have the iron forearms and solid rooted stance then something is wrong.

The same can be said for a Black Tiger master.:D


jeff:)

Brad
07-02-2003, 01:48 PM
Any good Hung Gar websites other than http://www.hungkuen.net ?

South Paw
07-02-2003, 02:24 PM
Try this newly started site:
www.hungkuenmuseum.info
and this long established site:
http://www.siulam.info/

David Jamieson
07-02-2003, 05:21 PM
if you go here, you will find a few http://www.mlsd66.ca/~dforbes/

also http://www.kungfulibrary.com is pretty good.

and www.fuhok.com

and

www.tigercrane.com

hungkuen.net is now siulaminfo.com

and there is

http://www.hunggarkungfu.com/

Trey a google search, Hung Gar is a really popular and well known style now a days. There are plenty of sites with information, video, yada yada yada, you name it, it's out there.

cheers

GARRA DE TIGRE
07-09-2003, 01:47 PM
hello gene


i want to know if you have some info about lam fook sing and tit kiu sam original hung gar ( village hung gar i guess ) and specially shaolin monk kwok yin .


thank you

GeneChing
07-16-2003, 09:08 AM
You might ask some of the others on the forum here. I haven't really done much in Hung Gar research in years. I did some Taiwan Hung Men stuff in our last few issues (May June 2003 (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=318) & Jul Aug 2003 (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=351)) but not much with Mainland Hung Gar in a while. Sorry.

Jan Seung
07-17-2003, 01:07 AM
I wondered if there are any interesting Hung Gar books in English?

Fu-Pau
07-17-2003, 02:32 AM
I have a fairly old book on the Hung Gar Tiger/Crane form by Bucksam Kong, which is quite good (though I'm not a hung gar practitioner).

David Jamieson
07-17-2003, 05:39 AM
go here (http://www.kungfulibrary.com) to get Lam Sai Wing's Three published books on Gung Gi Fook Foo, Fu Hok and Tid sen Kuen in english.

I also have Kong's book and even a few others, but the ones from the source will always be the best.

cheers

hasayfu
07-17-2003, 03:25 PM
The above link does not have Fu Hok translated (yet)

You can also get translations for the 3 books + the training manual at http://www.quandoman.com/videos.htm

Look at the bottom.

Also, sifu is coming out with an original book (yeah, it's been almost done for a while) Looks like the presale link is taken off the site but it will come soon.

SiJiHao
07-18-2003, 07:47 AM
There are also advertised www.hunnga.net, however I dont know if the same.

jun_erh
07-26-2003, 03:44 PM
A guy named sifu Jamaal al bakkar (not sure of spelling) has some intersting hung gar books I own one and have looked through a few.

David Jamieson
07-27-2003, 05:29 PM
jun_erh

is that the guy from the movie tiger claws with cynthia rothrock?

or was that someone else?

cheers

HuangKaiVun
07-28-2003, 12:13 PM
Check out Ho Lap Tin's "The Shooting Star Boxing of Hung Pugilism".

Ho Lap Tin was a direct disciple of Tang Fung, who in turn studied directly under Wong Fei Hung.

The set presented in the book isn't a Hung Ga set per se, but Ho does depict his entire set (which he made up himself).

More interestingly, Ho has presented applications to all of the moves. All of them are geared toward defending against strikers.

SiJiHao
07-29-2003, 03:18 AM
Interesting book, Ho Lap Tin. Chinese / English too.
Mistake, though, Tang Fung learned followed Lam Sai Wing, not Wong Fai Hung.

GreyMystik
07-29-2003, 08:14 AM
it was my understanding that Tang Fung's sifu WAS in fact WFH, and NOT LSW.

SiJiHao
07-29-2003, 05:45 PM
Sorry there, according to Ho Lap Tin is not correct. Even Tang Fung is Lam Sai Wing student together with at Lok Sin Kek Yuen, famous for the history? Perhaps after to follow Wong Fai Hung learns the medicine only. Every body knows this!

HuangKaiVun
07-30-2003, 02:50 PM
Such . . . sob . . . common knowledge . . .

just kidding.

That's not what I heard or experienced, having trained under both systems for a while.

GreyMystik
07-30-2003, 03:07 PM
if everybody knew it , it most likely would not be contested... however, it is.

i'm not saying Tang Fung didn't learn from LSW, just that it was my understanding that the Tang Fung lineage is traced to WFH.

of course, I suppose unless we are Tang Fung or WFH or LSW themselves, we don't really know and we have to take people's word for it.

i'm going to take my sifu and sigung's word for it...

Je Lei Sifu
07-30-2003, 08:03 PM
SiJiHao,

What you have posted is incorrect. My Sigung's book states that Tang Fung learned originally under Lam Sai Wing and later went to study under Wong Fei Hung. Not only does it states that he learned the Osteopathy, he also learned Hung's Pugilism from him.

It's unfortunate that someone who does not represent Tang Fung lineage believes that he knows much about it. This is like saying I know all about you lineage yet I haven't a clue to which branch you belong.

It is a fact that Tang Fung learned some gung fu from Lam Sai Wing, it is also a fact that he was with Lam Sai Wing during his the Luk Sin incident. However, you are sadly mistaking to believe that Tang Fung only learned medicine under Wong Fei Hung.

It was Wong who taught Tang Fong the advance methods of Hung Ga not Lam Sai Wing.

Not only does my sigung mention this in his book Lau Sing Kuen, he also mention it in his book on Lung Fu San (Hung Ga Pugilism) as well as his first book on Hung Ga San Sau.

Each of these books stated he learned Hung pugilism under Lam Sai Wing and later from Wong Fei Hung. I couldn't see the close relationship between Mok Gwai Lan and Tang Fong if he was not a sup yut dai Gee under Wong Fei Hung.

HuangKaiVun,

Regarding whether or not Lau Sing Kuen is not a Hung Ga set. This is like saying Butterfly Palms, Lau Ga Kuen, Arrow Fist and other forms are not hung ga. This is far from the truth, we know that each branch has their on flavor and with this its on representation of what Hung ga is. All the techniques in Lau Sing Kuen come directly from techniques found in other Hung Ga forms. It's hard to know or understand this if you don't actually learn the form from someone who is qualified to teach it.

Peace

Je Lei Sifu.

South Paw
07-30-2003, 11:29 PM
Hasayfu,

Fu Hok has now been translated and can still be bought for a lowered price at http://www.kungfulibrary.com/
They also have the three books on CD.
The quality of the translation is hard to judge, but compared to the books at quandoman they look good and are half the price.
Also at quandoman they translated the Fu Hok and Tit Sin books from Leung Daat, and not the original work. Although their fourth translated book "Lam Sai Wing's Workout Manual" is of great interest.
Problem with both is that they use Mandarin instead of Cantonese terms for Hung Gar techniques.

Good to hear that Kwong Wing Lam's book will be out soon. Maybe it will make a nice Christmas present :D


Je Lei Sifu and GreyMystik,

Correct. Better belief the words of your Sigung.

hasayfu
07-30-2003, 11:45 PM
South Paw,

Thanks for pointing out the translation of Fu-Hok is done. At the time I posted, it wasn't but it is now. I support all translations and think folks should get as many as they can afford. Everyone has a different way of expressing chinese in English. The emphasis can be enlightening. Also, having done some minor translations, the work that goes into it is not even covered by the sales.

As for Sifu's book. It should be around by Christmas. I just spoke to the editor today. They are looking at October now.

With all the build up, I hope the hung gar community will enjoy it. I believe it will be one of the few books that isn't based around a form.

And to Je Lei Sifu, Your lineage is just that. Yours. Don't let outsiders tell you differently. (not that you would) Just giving my support.

Jan Seung
07-31-2003, 12:53 AM
In Mok Gwai Lam lineage Dang Fong is not seen as a student of Wong Fei Hung.
He came with Lam Sai Wing, then learned medicine and maybe a little bit kung fu.

I also spoke with Chiu Chi Ling once in Hong Kong and he said Ho Lap Tin told him all the kung fu came from Lam Sai Wing. Well, you can ask him.

But because maybe Ho Lap Tin tell different to his own students, they have to use that.
Actually is not that important, Dang Fong maybe learned from many persons (so if other people say he learned from Lam Sai Wing they are not wrong either), just as Lam Sai Wing learned from many.

Je Lei Sifu
07-31-2003, 07:15 AM
In Mok Gwai Lam lineage Dang Fong is not seen as a student of Wong Fei Hung.

This is far from the truth.



I also spoke with Chiu Chi Ling once in Hong Kong and he said Ho Lap Tin told him all the kung fu came from Lam Sai Wing. Well, you can ask him.

This statement is funny due to the fact that my Sigung did not associate with many people. I really doubt if he ever held this conversation with Chui Chi Ling. If this is what Chui Chi Ling is stating, then let him state what he wants. However, of what interest is this subject to him? It seems as though you hold to a high point what is told to you by someone who once again is not a part of the Tang Fung lineage. It's strange that all others under Tang Fung lineage say and know exactly what my Sigung has said in all of his books.


But because maybe Ho Lap Tin tell different to his own students, they have to use that.

Are you indicating that my Sigung need to lies in order to make himself legit? If that is the case, what makes you think that your people who you hold to tell the truth are actually doing that?


Actually is not that important, Dang Fong maybe learned from many persons (so if other people say he learned from Lam Sai Wing they are not wrong either), just as Lam Sai Wing learned from many.

In actuality, it is very important when someone outside of the circle try to discredit the truth. Tang Fung has learned from several people, just as Lam Sai Wing. If you would read my previous post, I credit Lam Sai Wing as one of his teachers but later on Wong Fei Hung. Once again he did not only learn medicine from Wong Fei Hung, he learned gung fu also and not just a little bit.

South Paw and Hasayfu

Thanks for your support.

Peace

Je Lei Sifu

South Paw
07-31-2003, 09:10 AM
Je Lei Sifu,

To Chiu Chi Ling Sifu the "HUNG GA FAMILY JOINT PUBLIC STATEMENT", published on his website, still holds truth.

Jan Seung,

To tell that Chiu Chi Ling Sifu talked to you can not be verified. Simply because we don't know you. Don't misuse the name of my Sifu !!!

SiJiHao
07-31-2003, 05:56 PM
To South Paw
You saying
"Je Lei Sifu and GreyMystik,

Correct. Better belief the words of your Sigung."

__________________
South Paw

How the reason your sudden so interest to stop this information? And after saying
Jan Seung,

"To tell that Chiu Chi Ling Sifu talked to you can not be verified. Simply because we don't know you. Don't misuse the name of my Sifu !!!"

__________________
South Paw

First time i think you not understand. Now i asking why you so interesting change your Sifu words? You saying verify verify nevermind! Any body may ask your Sifu about this, is not misuse.

To Jei Lei
This is Chiu Chi Ling say also, sure! Chiu Chi Ling know everbody, very famous tell you the best one, i know. never mind this, how you say is no problem, my opinion. also, you should special thanks someone who trouble himself mentions how the history will written down, and also who he is writting. He not mentioning, you not yet know. Perhaps you "shot the messager" already? For me, i hope so lucky could learn the medicine for Wong Fai Hung, no problem. Lok Sin then, certainly Wong Fai Hung is very much like to Tang Fung. Sorry you, don't angry me please!

Je Lei Sifu
07-31-2003, 07:39 PM
SiJiHao,

Forgive me for not understanding a thing that you have said. The only part I did understand, was that you don't want me to angry you.

Why would you be angry? It is not your lineage that is being incorrectly spoken about.

However, let's say I do anger you. What's going to happen? You're going to become upset, say alot of things which means nothing and then what?

If this is not what you are trying to get across (your anger) then explain yourself a little better in detail.

South Paw,

The Joint Statement says alot. I have no bad thoughts of Master Chiu Chi Ling and I know that these are words coming from someone who more than likely doesn't have his permission to speak for him directly.

Peace

Je Lei Sifu

hasayfu
07-31-2003, 10:38 PM
Good to see that some of us can get along and even support each other even if we are from differing lines. Hung Kuen Yut Gar!

SiJiHao and Jan Seung,

Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I assume you are only passing on information you have been taught and believe to be true.

Are you saying you speak for Chiu Chi Ling? SouthPaw is a close student of Chiu Chi Ling. Of course, I don't believe he speaks for Chiu Chi Ling either. Maybe others from Chiu's line can clear this up.

Care to share where your information comes from? It doesn't matter that your story is different from Je Lei Sifu. My story is different from others too. We can still respect each other. But knowing where the stories come from helps put some weight and credence to it.

Are you guys from Mok's line? Lee Chan Wor perhaps? Don't be shy? It would be great to have more HG brothers on this list.

SiJiHao
08-01-2003, 08:24 AM
Thanks you understanding me, sorry my english. I call my Sifu tonight, he explain to me every. This Chiu Chi Ling tell him last year. I make mistake perhaps not everybody know this story? really, my Sifu not care this, his learning the medicine, learning the Hung Ga is say very nevermind! Sifu know Chiu Chi Ling from before long time. Sorry any problem, please dont angry with me. Southpaw you must know this story, or not interfernece before your Sifu name mentioned here. If this one true for the correct history then you must stand by your Sifu true words. This for the history. Also is make plan some body help writing book for him? Change the history little?

Jan Seung hear such story other peoples tell to you? Lee Chan Wo?

South Paw
08-01-2003, 08:59 AM
SiJiHao,

Most of the time I cannot give you a reply, because of your english spelling.
But I am all ears (and eyes).

Your Sifu is teaching Hung Gar?

Je Lei Sifu
08-01-2003, 11:04 AM
SiJiHao,

Thank you very much. It is not important how others people tell your history, but it is important to know your own history.

It is the right of the people whose history is being attacked to defend it to the extreme. As I know my own personal history, one day someone may try to change it to what they want it to be. It then becomes the responsibility of the new generation to defend it to the fullest.

I am not worried about what other people think my lineage history is as long as it is kept to them and their inner circle. However, it is not proper to publicly denounce someone else's truth.

This same type of conversation cause a big debate not so long ago and it is up to us as martial family to learn from our past mistakes and to avoid anything that could cause a disturbance within our own system.

I'm pretty sure that each any everyone of us that are a part of the hung ga history has solid foundation in their history as well as their skills. Being that things are the way that they are, it is best that we go along the grain and not against it. It doesn't matter what I may think of you or what you think of me, want is important is that we all are family and our surname is Hung.

Peace

Je Lei Sifu

SiJiHao
08-03-2003, 09:28 AM
I read joint statment now, notice have some difference. This not woords of Chiu chi Ling, say he recognize Tang Fung Follow the Wong Fai Hung. Why writing like this here then go say is the differnce every where?
I am not Chiu Chi Ling inner circle, I know this is then common, the for ever public knowledge he say, as others also can hear. I know

Jan Seung
08-07-2003, 02:27 AM
Yes, I'm from Mok lineage.
But I have learned from others as well.

SiJiHao
08-09-2003, 10:04 AM
You can learn Mok Gwai Lan Si Tai Fei Tong? Please to e-mail me, find me here. I want discuses you Lam Sai Wing the book with you, yeas?

Jan Seung
08-18-2003, 12:35 AM
SiJiHao,

I haven't learned Si Dai Fei Tong yet.
But I have seen my sifu perform several times.

SiJiHao
08-19-2003, 12:08 AM
Somebody try to promote himself bigger says the following Mok Kwei Lan, like him SO MUCH and give him only picture her husand,Wong Fei Hung.
Like so much, then why this big talk guy then also not learn Fei Tong??!

South Paw
08-19-2003, 02:49 PM
SiJiHao,

The more I read you, the better I understand you.
Here a reply to your questions:

Chiu Chi Ling Sifu already stated what he had learned from Mok Kwei Lan. There is no mystery to it. He gave clear answers when people asked him what he actually learned from her. He also stated his relation to her. I know that he deeply respects Mok Kwei Lan.

What I did understand is that Mok Kwei Lan and the Chiu Family were quite close. Attending eachother's parties, supporting one another, etc.

I have seen photographs of Mok Kwei Lan in a ceremony at the Chiu Family dotting the Lion's eyes, attending birthday parties, or Chiu Chi Ling being present at the Wong Fei Hung memorial celebrations.

Because there was mutual respect in those days I don't know why this is disgraced by you, or those you are representing.

SiJiHao
08-20-2003, 01:52 AM
Wah, really taking advantage the other, is it? Maybe not knowing such a character first. Very good. So believe such, you like?

South Paw
08-25-2003, 10:34 AM
SiJiHao,

Talking about pictures/photographs I just like to quote you:

1 Single Picture Worthing 10000 Words.

So it's not only words, but also pictures!

SiJiHao
08-27-2003, 02:11 AM
Best reason should no camera the pri vate ceremony. Who will know how kind hearts people is taking lousy advantage by such after word? This one is always taking advantage the others such.

hasayfu
10-04-2003, 12:45 AM
Shameless plug but I know a bunch of you were waiting...

http://www.wle.com//products/b1096.html

This is not a forms book. It's an insight into Lam Sifu's understanding of Hung Gar.

If anyone has already got it, I'd love to hear what you think.

crazymaddrunk
10-04-2003, 01:49 PM
anyone here studying HG ever hear of these forms?

Teet Sao
No Lick Kuen

any information on these?

crazymaddrunk
10-05-2003, 08:45 AM
what's so funny, jerk? these are forms I just read about, but are not in my lineage...

funny how you like to follow me around, it must be love...

illusionfist
10-05-2003, 11:48 AM
Teet Sao probably means "iron hand"

No Lick Kuen I wouldn't have the foggiest clue. Lick could be lik or lek, which refers to power. The no could be "noi" which means internal.

Either way, these are not standard forms within the Wong Fei Hung lineage of Hung Gar. Your standard forms in the Wong Fei Hung lineage are Gung Gee Fuk Fu Kuen (Taming the Tiger), Fu Hok Cern Ying Kuen (Tiger and Crane), either Ng Ying (five animals) or Sup Ying Kuen (ten shapes) depending on your lineage, and then Tit Sin Kuen (iron wire).

Peace :D

mono68
10-07-2003, 11:52 PM
Behave like good martial artist.
As a matter of fact CMD Illusionfist is correct: Teet (tit) Sao is Iron Hand. No Lick Kuen or Noi Lek Kuen is Internal Strength Fist.
Some schools teach these as minor forms, but are add ons and not pure Hung Forms.

ctoepker
10-08-2003, 02:58 PM
Trained by Lam Sai Wing's son and grandsons...

Good kung fu


http://www.hungkuen.com/contact.htm
In California
Phone: 925/938-4454
Email: info@hungkuen.com
Train with us!
Classes in Walnut Creek,
Tuesdays & Thursday evenings at 6:30 pm.


http://www.sfhunggar.com/nav/nav.html

illusionfist
10-08-2003, 03:13 PM
mono68,

Peronsally, I've never heard of those forms before (throughout varying lineages of Hung Kuen that I've studied). Do you know what lineage these forms are from?

Peace :D

mono68
10-09-2003, 11:36 AM
Illusionfist:

Hung Jap or mixed Hung Styles tend to incorporate. I met once a Teacher from Toisan who incorporated into his system. As per lineage I vaguely remeber this teacher mentioning he was not from the WHF, but from the Hung Moon.

hasayfu
10-10-2003, 01:18 PM
Just to be fair, there are a few schools in addtion to the ones listed by ctoepker in the bay area that teaches the WFH lineage Hung Gar without the extra forms you mentioned. I think they all teach some "extras" besides those mentioned by illusionfist which is what we call the "pillar" forms.

YC Wong in SF. He used to teach out of Oakland Chinatown but I don't see it on the website
http://www.tigercrane.com/home.html

Chiu, Chi Ling in Alameda. I don't see an official class but I know he teaches.
http://home.earthlink.net/~chiuchiling/

My Sifu, Wing Lam in Sunnyvale
http://www.wle.com/school/

BTW, good time to mention the new book that just came out. Early feedback is this is a very comprehensive book on Hung Gar concepts. It's not a forms book.
http://www.wle.com//products/b1096.html

Subzero
10-10-2003, 05:58 PM
hey Hasayfu.
Just wanted to sey my instructor (graham mckenzie form scotland) is learning the hung gar style from wing lam.
I just started to learn the "arrow hand form".I'm already a high grde in lau gar buti enjoy the Hung gar stuff too.

baldmantiz
10-14-2003, 07:34 AM
thinking about joining a hung gar school:

are there any/many throws/joint locks in the system or is it mainly hand strikes?

what are the main principles of the system

Gold Horse Dragon
10-14-2003, 07:57 PM
Yes there are locks and throws as well as hand, elbow, knee and foot strikes. It is a comprhensive art. One of it's main principles is to destroy the opponents bridge while crossing it and delivering a strike to the body, head.
I do Southern Sil-Lum Black Tiger (Hak Fu Pai) which is a close cousin to Hung Fist.

GHD

illusionfist
10-14-2003, 08:54 PM
Hung Kuen stylistically has 18 joint locking methods that are used to orgainze the techniques into a concise model. There are a few throws, but its nothing as sophisticated as some of the throws you might find in a throwing art per se.

Typically, Hung Kuen is a great middle to short range art so therefore the bridging methods allow for a ton of joint locking opportunities, if you so desire. If you are specifically looking for a joint locking type style however, I dont know if Hung Kuen would be the art for you because striking is emphasized over locking (mainly because it is very hard to joint lock). Hung Kuen has a rather large repetoire of techniques, so where one decides to specialize can be drastically different from individual to individual.

Peace :D

Gold Horse Dragon
11-02-2003, 08:52 AM
Hello HSF,

I just reviewed your Sifu's book on HG. Please give my compliments to your Sifu on an excellent piece of work. It is sure to become a classic. It is packed with information on history, sets, application, injury treatment and even lion dance. Your Sifu has honored the system, your Sigungs and you must feel honored to have such a knowledgable, skilled and giving Sifu.

GHD

wuwei
05-05-2004, 02:34 PM
Is there nunchaku in Hung Gar?
I saw school teaching them....
what about wooden man, is there a form like WC?

Ben Gash
05-06-2004, 08:58 AM
All depends on what you mean by Hung Gar. The Wong Fei Hung lineage Hung Gar that you see more commonly in the West certainly doesn't, but I do know of some "village" systems that have hardcore dummy sets. It's also possible that some of the other Hung systems teach short sweeper.

illusionfist
05-06-2004, 01:39 PM
I've never seen a Hung Kuen lineage that has the nunchuks, but there are several lineages of Hung Kuen that make use of dummies. Many of them are not just excluded to the the WC type dummy and they make use of rarer types, like the gau sing jong (9 star dummy), etc.

Peace :D

Ego_Extrodinaire
05-11-2004, 05:45 AM
Any news on the old sifu?

South Paw
05-11-2004, 08:20 AM
Chiu Wai will be in Warszawa, Poland end of next month. He will give seminars and demonstrations during the 3rd European Hung Gar Championships, Chin Woo Championships and International Wushu Championships.

wuwei
05-13-2004, 07:33 AM
That's what I though.I searched aroung on the net, and saw no mention of nunchaku.Was wondering what they are doing?

Ben Gash
05-16-2004, 06:22 AM
It could be a number of things.It could be a village system that contains the short sweeper, it could have absorbed short sweeper from another style (there was a lot of interplay and form sharing between styles in Canton in the early/mid twentieth century), the teacher could have learned the form somewhere else and decided to teach it in his syllabus, the teacher may have felt a need to conform to public expectations in the 70s and 80s and devised a Hung style nunchaku routine, or, of course, it could be Kenpo masquerading as kung fu or made up junk.
Go along and ask the Sifu.

Shaolinlueb
05-16-2004, 08:31 PM
wing lam etaches those two cool ass shields.

mok
05-28-2004, 01:16 PM
Hey all,

I'm a newbie here from the Hung Gar school wuwei was checking out in montreal - see my response on the other thread if you're interested...


Other than the 'chucks, the main weapons we learn are:

Daan do, staff, gim, double broadswords, spear, and cane. There is no umbrella, but perhaps the cane set is analogous?

At the black-sash level new weapons are introduced: butterfly swords, wooden bench, double gim, and double daggers.

Our double-daggers set is from northern eagle-claw, in fact the same set is played 2 ways - either with daggers in reverse grip or without using the standard "eagle claw" shape. It has some pretty fancy kicking in it, and is decidedly not "hung gar".


Judging on the weapons rack, they also taught 3-section staff, 9 section whip, and trident (tiger-fork) at some point. But I have never seen these taught and none of the current black-sashes know these sets.


I have no idea if other "typical" Hung Gar lineages do a wooden man set? there are clips on the net of grandmaster Chan Hon Jung doing a mook yan jong set, but it's not the same set we do.
IMHO dummy training fits nicely with Hung gar - it's really good to help you flow/trap, and to toughen your forearms as well...




Regards,


mok

HunggaKUEN
08-25-2004, 05:55 PM
Hi, I am new to this forum so let me say a little about myself,I St udied Hung kuen and Wing-Choong kuen both under my uncle. Our lineage is under Fung Wing Biu.Have to go now until next time, Hung Kuen yat Ga.

One Finger Zen
09-04-2004, 05:21 AM
welcome aboard, dude!

take care, OFZ

:D

mono68
09-05-2004, 12:47 PM
Are you presently teaching or practising both styles in NYC. where is your school located?

Hungfutkune
09-27-2004, 07:32 AM
I was searching the web and i found a great site on Preying Mantis. www.geocities.com/mantiscave . It has a very extensive list of lineages, tracing it from the founder to many masters living today.

Does anyone know if there are any sites out there like this for the Hung Gar lineage? If not, there should be!!

Thanks

South Paw
09-27-2004, 11:32 AM
Here you have a site of European Hung Gar Masters (http://home.planet.nl/~padbe017/european_hung_gar_masters.htm). But they go back to Lam Sai Wing.

Kind regards,
KPE

Fu-Pow
09-27-2004, 11:37 AM
http://www.hungkuen.net/familytree.htm

Hungfutkune
09-28-2004, 05:51 AM
Thanks Guys,
Yeah I've seen those sites and they pretty limited in their information. It really only talks about the lineage of one school. I would love to find out who all of Tang Fong's students were and where they or their students are today.
Thanks!!

South Paw
12-12-2004, 11:12 AM
Click here (http://www.es-films.com/index_topic.php?did=15&didpath=/15&PHPSESSID=6ffff8c14bfdbaa72241ff2122902b09) to learn about the new Hung Gar DVD's that will be released Spring 2005 by Mark Houghton Sifu. Lau Jaam Lineage.

Laukarbo
12-13-2004, 10:20 AM
thank you Southpaw!!! :D

Hi,
My Sifu Mark Houghton has together with his Students and his Sihing Lau Kar Yung (Dragon's Claws),produced a series of hung gar instructionals.
They a re quite different from your common instructional vid....on each vid you´ll find a short movie to the form explaining its history.....
see the trailer on...(trailer is more than 4 minutes long so it takes a bit to download.....)
http://www.es-films.com/index_topic.php?did=15&didpath=/15&PHPSESSID=6ffff8c14bfdbaa72241ff2122902b09


http://www.es-films.com

once ronin
12-14-2004, 02:07 AM
Lau Gar Leung father is Lau Jalm not Lau Saam.

Laukarbo
12-14-2004, 02:42 AM
Lau Jaam:D

Gorgor
12-21-2004, 12:32 PM
Hi,
I'm student of Hung Gar that teaches Grandmaster Lam Chun Fai, so I'm quiet interested in this thing.
I,ve few questions:
1)what are those three part of Hung Gar Story? It's a film or what?
2)Is it already released 'n' will there be other parts?
3)Why do I not have these yet?:-)

bye'n'have a nice Xmas!

Laukarbo
12-21-2004, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by Gorgor
Hi,
I'm student of Hung Gar that teaches Grandmaster Lam Chun Fai, so I'm quiet interested in this thing.
I,ve few questions:
1)what are those three part of Hung Gar Story? It's a film or what?
2)Is it already released 'n' will there be other parts?
3)Why do I not have these yet?:-)

bye'n'have a nice Xmas!

Hi Gorgor,
I try to answer ur questions;
these films are a brand new style of instructionals:
the first DVD emphasizes The Tiger and crane set,
there will be an instructional but also a short movie explaining the history of the form...

second ,Ng long ba gua gwan/instructional and short movie
third gung ji fuk fu kuen instr./shortmovie

I think on the DVDs are some extras like an interview with Lau Kar Leung....

Release date in america is early next year....

check out the site for more infos...
http://www.es-films.com

have a nice x-mas too!!!

Laukarbo
01-02-2005, 05:02 PM
SEMINAR IN NY with Mark Houghton and Lau Kar Yung

Hello Everyone,

Early registration is now available for the seminar; please go to http://seminar.syracusekungfu.com/ to pre-register.

Breakdown of the seminar is as follows:

DAY ONE-
BASIC FIGHT CHOREOGRAPHY
Concentrating on fundamentals, tempo, reactions, angles, stunt falls, etc., all from a basic 'western kickboxing' material format
KUNG FU FIGHT CHOREOGRAPHY
Same as above, but using traditional Hung Ga techniques and material

*ALL PARTICIPANTS WILL CHOREOGRAPH A SHORT FIGHT SCENE, WHICH WILL BE EDITED INTO PERSONAL SHOWREELS

DAY TWO-LAU FAMILY AND OLD-STYLE HUNG GA
Highlighting training methods and application from the Lau Family perspective, and from Mark's unique Old Style Hung Ga from Ho Kam Wai of Malaysia (from Hung Hei Kwun, but not through the Wong line)

Exact location for the event is forthcoming, and will be posted in about 2 weeks. We will have a number of items available for purchase, such as heavy weapons (tiger forks included). We also decided against spectators-this will be a closed event.

kamro
06-05-2005, 06:46 AM
Ive done a little research and found out that the only school in my area teaches the Hung Ga style.

Do anyone of you have any experiences with that style and/or can tell me a little about it???

I live in Norway so this is the only school in my city, its called Tony Browns Kung Fu School! :)

hasayfu
06-07-2005, 12:51 PM
Don't know the norway school but I have emailed with Sifu Brown. He seems like a good guy with good knowledge.

Can't say I've met him first hand but I would check them out.

kamro
06-08-2005, 02:03 PM
Thank u for the answer! :)

South Paw
06-08-2005, 03:02 PM
I have met Sifu Ivar Boxaspen (http://home.planet.nl/~padbe017/plaatjes/album/CCL_IB.jpg) of Tony Browns Kung Fu School several times the last five years. The last time was in April this year during the Chiu Kau Memorial Championships in Rom, Italy.
Sifu Ivar Boxaspen is a nice person and he has some fine students.

kamro
06-10-2005, 10:23 AM
cool....looks like a cool guy! :cool:

Vajramusti
06-10-2005, 12:30 PM
Tony Brown is a good knowledgeable guy.

Joy Chaudhur1

hskwarrior
02-23-2006, 02:31 PM
hey whats up?


i had a question for you hung Ga folks. is there anyone here that does hung ga that has heard of a Hung Ga Master named Chan Heung?

Thanks

David Jamieson
02-23-2006, 04:18 PM
Chan Hon might be the same guy.

hskwarrior
02-23-2006, 05:41 PM
would you know if you saw a photo??

Infrazael
02-24-2006, 01:25 AM
hey whats up?


i had a question for you hung Ga folks. is there anyone here that does hung ga that has heard of a Hung Ga Master named Chan Heung?

Thanks

Are you sure it's Hung Gar? Chan Heung was the originator of CLF, ya know. . . . . . . . . . . .

Fu-Pow
02-24-2006, 01:32 AM
At some point in time there was probably a Hung Gar practitioner named Chan Heung...last I heard he gave up kung fu, moved to Hoboken and opened a bartending school for recovering alcoholics.

FP

PM
02-24-2006, 04:50 AM
no, never. however, Chan Honjung (Chan Hon Chung) was one of the most famous Hung Kyun masters of Hong Kong.

David Jamieson
02-24-2006, 10:57 AM
hsk- yeah, if I saw a photo I can tell you if its Chan Hon. And yeah, Chan Hon Chung is the same as the abridged "Chan Hon"

theres some vids floating around out there of him in his autumn years doing some work on a mook jong.

ngokfei
02-24-2006, 01:04 PM
Cool, hope they float in my direction:D

Willing to trade stuff for it;)

PS: here's a link to a photo of him

http://wongkk.com/images-3/answers/ans99b/chc01c.jpg

hskwarrior
02-24-2006, 01:28 PM
No, this is the photo.


this was from a photo with Lau Bun in it and my sifu said this guy was named chan heung but was a hung ga master and the first sifu of the Late Bing Chan----my sifu's 1st sifu.

David Jamieson
02-24-2006, 02:03 PM
nope, not the same guy hsk.

don't recognize the photo.

Chan Hon Chung was diminutive of stature, bald and with a big smile.

ngokfei
02-24-2006, 05:36 PM
don't recognize him either.

will be in nyc soon so will show the picture to my sifu. He is very familiar with alot of the martial artists of HK (probably because my sigung and sitaigung were pretty well known)

you should post this question & photo on the southern kung fu forum (took the place of the now defunct southern fist forum)

PM
05-22-2006, 12:00 PM
http://www.lghk.org/videos/gjch.wmv

PM
06-02-2006, 08:43 AM
yes, another new video was uploaded, and a lot of new stuff is comming. check out occasionaly http://www.lghk.org/en/videos.htm

Giuseppe_S
08-01-2006, 03:52 AM
Hello to all, i was wondering could anyone perhaps post some links for the basic forms of Hung Kuen as i am a beginer and want to make sure i have done everything right. Thanks

ngokfei
08-01-2006, 07:34 AM
I think you should focus on your teacher's version. Take alot of notes.

It would be confusing to compare other versions with yours at this time, since you haven't developed a definite foundation yet.

If your from the Lam Sai Wing lineage then a good resource would be his 3 books (gung Ji Fook Fu, Fu Hok Seung Ying and Tit Sing Kuen).

You probably aren't learning the 1st set yet GJFF but good to have them as references and motivation.

good luck in your training

PM
08-02-2006, 12:36 AM
gung ji fuk fu kyun
http://www.lghk.org/en/gallery/lsw_gjffk.htm

tit sin kyun
http://www.lghk.org/en/gallery/lsw_tsk.htm

(fu hok seung ying kyun coming soon:-) )

Asmo
08-02-2006, 12:52 AM
If you have problems remembering the sequences and holes drop in when you get home, just practice the parts that you DO remember. You'll be able to perform the parts you did remember the next class, and then you'll be able to pay close attention to the parts that link them up again.

Southern Fist
08-02-2006, 11:56 PM
Ngok fei is correct in you must concentrate on what your Sifu teaches you prior to seeing other sets from your style.

Take notes and video tape yourself doing the set you are learning.

us0kch
09-10-2006, 11:57 PM
Not sure if this is old news, but here is the website to Sifu Wan Chi Ming. :)

http://www.liondanceny.com/homepage.htm

Infrazael
10-01-2006, 02:58 AM
Sup people. Due to the lack of practically ANYTHING, as far as I know from searching/googling, I decided to take up some Hung Kuen from Sifu Eddy Lane. The lineage is Lam Sai Wing. Eddy learned from Buk Sam Kong, good friend of my CLF Sifu, Mak Hin Fai.

Anyways since I've been an lazy ass this summer, my legs now feel like crap, but whatever, sei ping ma always does that anyways. Class last night was pretty ****ed intense, lasted around 2 hours. I studied the basics, had to keep everything "tight" cuz I was being too wide (lmao) I guess my CLF habits are hard to break. Eh anyways I did basic punches, like 3 or 4 basic combinations which included Fu Jow, Ping Choy and several redirections/blocks/smashing-the-opponent's-arms sort of moves.

All in all, Hung is pretty tight stuff, everything I learned was pretty practical, I'm gonna start some heavy sparring as soon as my body learns this stuff and I'm able to properly execute techniques with Gum Jing.

Oh yeah and I'm still doing CLF if you're all wondering but this is the best I can find and it's pretty good training.

Peace

Laukarbo
11-21-2006, 12:28 AM
since i love to share I put this on youtube...

for the oldschool lovers..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcNclS-ad0Y

and another clip showing the old hung gar performed by lao kim...he used to teach in the philippines came from HK originally

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tItmXHc-qwI


enjoy

Flying-Monkey
11-21-2006, 11:34 PM
since i love to share I put this on youtube...

for the oldschool lovers..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcNclS-ad0Y

and another clip showing the old hung gar performed by lao kim...he used to teach in the philippines came from HK originally

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tItmXHc-qwI


enjoy


The first guy is my sibak.

Laukarbo
11-21-2006, 11:39 PM
The first guy is my sibak.


thats very cool..the second guy is my sibak (Fu Sheng) and if the first one ,chen kuan tai,learned from Lau Kar leung then hes my sibak too....:D

Laukarbo
12-03-2006, 12:10 AM
watch my Sifu interviewing his sihing Gordon Liu(Lau Kar Fei) the master killer...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j1yPmNn0K0



Kar Fei demonstrating parts of fu hok

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_ka7XmuFmE



Student of Mark Ho Sifu shoowing bits of Gung Ji and gets tossed around by Kar Fei...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYOwKQRUF-w


:D enjoy

brianlkennedy
12-26-2006, 06:11 PM
Way back in the late 1970s I studied hung gar from one of Bucksam Kong's students. This year I kind of returned to my interest in hung gar and in addition to "dusting off" the old hung gar sets, I have also started to do some historical research on hung gar.

My question is, what is the oldest written material on hung gar?

I suspect it is the three books written in the early 1920s by Lam Sai Wing(林尚榮, i.e. Taming the Tiger Fist (伏虎拳) Tiger and Crane Fist (虎鶴雙拳) Iron Thread Form (鐵線拳)

And when I say oldest written material I mean oldest existing material. Thanks for whatever help folks can provide.

Happy Holidays,
Brian

Asmo
12-27-2006, 03:32 AM
I know only of written material from Lam Sai Wing as well Brian. I also have seen an essay from Lam Sai Wing that is translated into English.

Other then that, there is a PDF for Gung Gee Fook Fu Kuen wich has some additonal historic information about the form from Leung Daat and Chiu Yu Tsai, from both the texts from GGFFK are included as well. This PDF used to be available from hunggar.net which seems to be expired now...

If you don't have this PDF, as far as I understand the intention was to give this PDF to the Hunggar family so pass me your email address in a priv and I'll pass it along.

But that is about it, unless someone else can come up with something! And you know how these things go, usually stuff is lingering around, people just need to want to share... ;)

PS: What are your plans with the information on the history of Hunggar? Writing a book maybe? There are quite a few people who have more insight into the history and have done research themself on the history (or specific parts, like a single set). It would be awesome if this info is being put side-by-side and distilled into a single form...

Asmo
12-27-2006, 03:38 AM
I suspect it is the three books written in the early 1920s by Lam Sai Wing(林尚榮, i.e. Taming the Tiger Fist (伏虎拳) Tiger and Crane Fist (虎鶴雙拳) Iron Thread Form (鐵線拳)


I just noticed this and might want to add it is called Gung Gee Fook Fu Kuen in Lam Sai Wing lienages.

Not sure, but from your book, and the type of books released by Lion Books you might havea strong Taiwan bias. The Hung Gar lineages there seem to be often branched off at Wong Fei Hong and have not gone through Lam Tsai Wing, wich added the Gung Gee part before the Fook Fu Kuen part.

The book is also about GGFFK, and not just FFK.

Hope this helped :)

Asmo
12-27-2006, 03:49 AM
Argh, can't help it but keep posting, LOL. I seriously hope this will lead to something for the whole community eventually Brain. As you have the talents and possibilities to do that, and I'm sure there is a market for a book on the history of Hung Gar.

You might want to read this thread which was started by White Tiger on the Hung Gar forum. WT is a student of Lau Gar Leung. http://southernkungfu.forumco.com/topic~TOPIC_ID~676.asp (not sure, but you might need to register to be able to read.)

He has a refreshing view on the importance of Wong Fei Hung.

PM
12-27-2006, 07:05 AM
yes, the oldest Hung kyun 洪拳 or better say Lingnaam kyun seut 岭南拳术 manuals are so-called Lam Saiwing's 林世榮 books.

i would like to note that there were not written by Lam Saiwing, but his students (first was probably the fu hok seung ying kyun 虎鹤双形 published in the 1920's, i think in 1923, second gung ji fuk fu kyun 工字伏虎拳, published in 1936, the last one - and worst one, with many mistakes and misconceptions, tit sin kyun 鐵線拳, was written when Lam Saiwing had already passed away, i think in 1950's). the books are definitely source of intereting info, but there are many mistakes (like wrong order of pics in fu hok book, wrong hand formations and stances in gung ji book with drawings etc., not to mention tit sin book - the text has almost no value for the practice of real tsk).

brianlkennedy
12-28-2006, 01:43 AM
Hi Asmo and PM,
Thanks much for the help. My wife and I appreciate it.

Asmo,
Thanks much for the kind words that you gave in the other thread about my wife and Is book. She and I are happy that people find the book enjoyable and informative. And talking of books, yes, you are right, Elizabeth and I are starting the research on our next set of books and one of those books will be a history of hung gar.

I have always respected and enjoyed hung gar. It was we can say my first love in Chinese martial arts. It is the system I started with and I want to give something back to the system. And one way I can contribute to hung gar is by doing the history of it. As I have kind of laid it out there will be about one year of research and then about a year of writing and getting it sold to a publisher.

I am friends with another Chinese martial arts historian, a guy named Stan Henning. He has done a bit of work on the history of the southern Shaolin Temple and I hope to incorporate his work into mine. Plus I hope to gather information from folks here in cyberspace.

Turning to a couple of specific points you mentioned, yeah, coming from Bucksam Kong’s old school I should have remembered about the full formal name of that set being Gung Gee Fook Fu Kuen and not just Fook Fu. You are quite right about that.

You are also quite right about my book and my current knowledge having a strong Taiwan bias. That is 100% true. I really have completely lost contact with both the North American and the Hong Kong hung gar community. And as a result I am getting a kind of provincial Taiwan/Formosa Island approach to everything!

Hung gar has had an interesting history here in Taiwan and Taiwan still produces some (albeit very few) strong, skilled and well informed hung gar teachers. And you are also quite correct in that Taiwanese hung gar is actually two different things; Canton/Hong Kong styles and Fukien/Taiwan styles and the two are somewhat different. At this point I know little about it but I have connected up with a guy who got his Wushu degree from Chinese Culture University here in Taiwan and his specialty was Taiwanese hung gar so he will be a great resource.

Later this evening I will take a look at that thread you mentioned from White Tiger. Thanks for the link. And thanks very much for your help, this project is off to a great start. (I sent you a private message too about the pdf files—super thanks!)

PM,
Thanks to you too. First of all about the name hung gar. I constantly use that term but my wife (a Taiwanese) uses the term Lingnan as you recommend. She is helping me read a book written by 朱愚崙Zhu Yu-lun called 嶺南武術叢談Lingnan Wushu Cong Tan. The phrase refers to boxing systems developed south of some well known mountain range in China?

Also too, it comes as no surprise to me that the books were actually written by students, that was (and still is!) quite common in China. Thanks too for the dates.

On a side note, I see you are from the Czech Republic. By some coincidence do you happen to know a fellow Czech who lives here in Taiwan and is fairly well known in Chinese martial arts circles, the guys name is Miro (he never seems to use his last name). He studies pakua here in Taiwan. I have met him a few times and saw him at a demo about a month back.

Okay then, dinner time in the Far East. Happy Holidays,
Brian

Asmo
12-28-2006, 02:14 AM
Ah, I was too quick about the books. Sometimes you take things for granted and forget about the origins. Thanks for reminding me PM :) The drawings have been made from photographs, which can be found on PM's website (also a good source of information): http://www.lghk.org/en/gallery/lsw_gjffk.htm

http://www.hungkuen.net/ also has a nice set of articles. I'm sure you already bumped onto this resource, but if not I fully recommend it. Amongst it an interesting article on Southern Shaolin.

http://www.siulam.info/ used to have a broad section with history on the various personalities from Hung Gar, both modern and ancient. But unfortunately this site seems to be gone...

I know TenTigers on this forum has done research to the history of Tit Sin. I'm sure he'll read this thread, or he might miss it as he often seems to be away from his computer during weekends and holiday periods... You might want to leave him a privmsg

And finally some articles that might further help you:
http://home.planet.nl/~padbe017/Nan_Shaolin_1.htm
http://home.planet.nl/~padbe017/chiukau.htm
http://home.planet.nl/~padbe017/shiuying.htm
(I myself am from the Chiu Chi Ling lineage)

brianlkennedy
12-28-2006, 02:42 AM
Asmo,
Thanks much, you have quick hands (like all good hung gar practitioners!). When I got back from dinner just now the files were already here. Super thanks.

Now let me ask you all another one. Anybody know anything about this book. Liz picked it up about a week back. As is usual for a lot of Taiwanese books it has zero publishing info. So anybody recognize it?

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q48/brianlkennedy/lumchoutitle.jpg

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q48/brianlkennedy/lumchouinside.jpg


thanks,
Brian

Asmo
12-28-2006, 02:51 AM
Those books are unknown to me...

Laukarbo
12-28-2006, 06:07 AM
Hello Brian,

since u seem to know a lot about the taiwan hung gar I have a question for you,
from one of my chinese friends here in Manila I heard theres a hung gar school in Taiwan having Lau Jaam in their lineage..not sure if its as Sigung or older..
Our sigung is Lau Kar Leung and his father is Lau Jaam so there might be a connection..but I have zero contact infos to them..maybe u know somemore?
I have some clips of them but there are in chinese..just check taiwan hung gar on youtube my username is FrankyLau...thanks

Frank

PM
12-28-2006, 06:58 AM
helo Brian,

Lingnaam mouseut 嶺南武術 might be more appropriate term - Lam Saiwing or the masters before him do not talk about their system as about Hungga/Hungkuyn, but simply as "martial art" (usualy kyunseut). the oly parts in so-called Lam Saiwing's books talking about Hungga are the parts with three pushes/extensions saam jin sau and fixing bridge. my sigung Lam Jou, a nephew of Lam Saiwing, has on his card Siulam kyunseut/Shaolin quanshu, and has exlained to me, that what is today called as Hung kyun is basically old Siulam plus other systems, which later branched out of Siulam, one of them being Hungga. Wong Feihung or Lam Saiwing lineage is kind of MMA of Southern China.

i have the book you have mentioned. are you planning to translate it? my Chinese is good enough just to have an idea what is the text about, not to translate it. it is a precious book about our system. Lingnaam 嶺南 means Gwongdung and Gwongsai provinces (Guangodong and Guangxi), area souith of the Five Ridges

yes, the books were written by the students - actually most of the old manuals were written or ghostwritten by the students (like the books of Yang Chengfu). sometimes there is more form the teacher, sometimes more from the student. people who know Lam Saiwing (he was not a scholar, but originally a butcher, later martial arts and army instructor, right?) say that the books are interesting, but are not a bibles or any sacred cow - in other words, they do not represent Lam Saiwings art or todays living art accurately.

if you plan to translate any of those, make sure to consult it with people wh really train the art - all the translations of the Hung ga books i have seen are really, really bad.

as for Miro, sure, i know him, send him my best regards. there is another friend of mine, his name is Dan Kral, maybe you know him too, and other friends of mine are visitng Taiwan regularly (see http://www.shaolin-hongquan.com/)

as fpr the other book, yes, i know it. interesting book, old Siulam. it was translated by Leung Ting's students (http://www.wle.com/products/b036.html), although it has different pics. gf styles in Singapore and Malaysia have a lot fo those movements from those books - Wong Kiew Kit sifu (http://www.shaolin.org) is one of the examples

btw where do you study and what is your lineage? form the Taiwanese Hongjia i have seen i can say that it is very different from WFH or LSW - i would say there is almost no connection (sets with the same names, but totally different choreography and structure etc.)

The Great Sage of HU
12-29-2006, 02:30 AM
Brian,
Next to be books mentioned
Lam Sai Wing's Anniversary book, biggest part written by Wong Man Kai, is interesting
with some bio's and texts on forms.

Further there are many texts but they are mostly self-elevating texts,
for promotion rather than that the facts are correct.
Just like in any other field, there are many discrepancies in HK/Canton Hung style as for who learned from whom and who did what.
The more you dig into the history, the more problems you will find.

So from that point, it's easier to stick to the own lineage stories or in your case maybe only to Taiwan hung Kuen.

Lastly, I don't know if you want to publish a book on hung or not, as is being suggested in other posts. But there's not really a market for it. For example all the latest books in the market have been privately published.
An option might be selling it as an e-book, although expect to sell a few hundred copies maximum.

Asmo
12-29-2006, 02:37 AM
The Great Sage of HU,

Where is this book "Lam Sai Wing's Anniversary book" for sale? I'm doing my best but am unable to find anything on it.

Thanks!

The Great Sage of HU
12-29-2006, 02:42 AM
Frank,

maybe your friend is confused with a link about a school in Japan
that I posted a long time ago in a forum.
Anyway, it's http://www.koukaken.com/koukaken/koukaken.html
Lau Jaam should be in that lineage.
(At the moment I can't see Japanese characters, so I hope I picked the right link from My Favorites. If not, let me know).

The Great Sage of HU
12-29-2006, 02:52 AM
Asmo,

nowadays only photo copies of it are spread.
So you have to ask around to people you know in person.

Of wacht gewoon effe, want de nederlandse versie bestaat binnenkort ook. (ssssssttt).

Asmo
12-29-2006, 03:03 AM
Ken ik u? =) En mag ik vragen of ik de Nederlandse uitgaven absoluut niet missen kan omdat deze wijverbreid vermarkt word? Wereldje is slechts klein, maar gaat soms erg langs elkaar heen...

The Great Sage of HU
12-31-2006, 01:36 AM
He said that in China it was more prominent

I really doubt this as there's only one person (Kwong Wing Lam) that learned this style. If it was prominent, there should be more.

Personally I believe there were many 5 animal / hung kuen schools as in small family branches, often not connected at all and totally different.
Only few survived to modern times though.

Even Wong Fei Hung and Lam Sai Wing Hung Kuen have been small throughout times.
If it weren't for the Lam Sai Wing books, the Wong Fei Hung movies and Lau family's involvement in other movies, LSW Hung Kuen will still have been unknown and hardly practised.

PM
12-31-2006, 09:38 AM
as for Ha sei fu 下四虎, i would add just that none of the Hung kyun or southern gungfu masters i have spoken with, either in Hong Kong or southern China, has ever heard about this system. as for secret or unique systems, i am very suspicious.

Lam Saiwing is other thing. virtually everybody - and not just gungfu people - in Southern China, knows who "Porky Wing" was. he was Mr. Somebody in Chinese martial arts - he had big school in Canton with many students, on one of the main roads, same goes for his schools in Hong Kong, it is not just about the books or movies, we are talking about early 1900's-1920's. (well, Wong Feihung is another story, we all know it, but if he was not good, Lam Saiwing would not study with him for more than 20 years).

The Great Sage of HU
01-01-2007, 03:51 AM
Lam Saiwing is other thing. virtually everybody - and not just gungfu people - in Southern China, knows who "Porky Wing" was. he was Mr. Somebody in Chinese martial arts - he had big school in Canton with many students, on one of the main roads, same goes for his schools in Hong Kong, it is not just about the books or movies, we are talking about early 1900's-1920's.

I would still call that small, as there were only a few schools after WFH teaching "more or less the same style".
At least, compared with how it's spread now and considering how many of the students will have been good and how many opened a school themselves.

Anyway, I agree with you that if Ha Say Fu and several other Hung styles that claim to be more original would have been known around if they were prominent back then.

As for Wong Fei Hung - of course he was good in kung fu. He devoted his life to "reconstructing" the squattered art of Siulam temple. Even though he didn't have a big school, he was still quite famous for his kung fu:

*******TRANSLATION
"My sigung, Wong Fei Hung quitted as the chief gung fu coach in Lau’s troop and went to Seui district to be the traditional Dit Da doctor. Because WFH was famous, my sifu (LSW) went to Wong Fei Hung and asked if he can be Wong’s student. However, at that moment my sigung had quitted teaching and thus he refused my sifu. My sifu asked Wong Fei Hung many times afterwards. Then Wong Fei Hung asked my sifu to show his gung fu. After showing Wong Fei Hung thought that my sifu is a talent of gung fu and accepted him as a student.

The techniques of my sigung originated from Siulam. He has met many good kung fu people. He used the techniques of different gung fu streams as reference and created “Fu Hok Seung Ying Kyun”. It contains hard and soft techniques. This set created a new era for the gung fu world at that time."
*********
Short Biography of my Sifu, Lam Sai Wing. By Wong Man Kai (from: Lam Sai Wing Anniversary Book). Translated by Lai Ka Wai

*****
"My sijo, Wong Fei Hung created it. ... He became famous and has met many good gung fu sifu. He picked the good points of different gung fu streams and then created the Fu Hok Seung Ying Kyun. ...Fu Hok Seung Ying Kyun also uses the strong points of the Hung, Mok, Hap and Fat streams as reference..."
*****
Discussion about Fu Hok Seung Ying Kyun, by Wong Kai Man (from: Lam Sai Wing Anniversary Book). Translated by Lai Ka Wai

The Great Sage of HU
01-01-2007, 03:51 AM
removed double post.

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

hasayfu
01-02-2007, 02:12 PM
Ironmantis3, I think your intentions are good but as you state, you are new to this and I would recommend you temper your enthusiasm with a bit more diplomacy.

For the record, I am an instructor for Wing Lam Kung Fu and have been directly involved in much of the research in the HaSayFu system. I am NOT ironmantis3's sifu nor am I directly affiliated with the hasayfu site he referenced. Since this thread is more about Ling Nam Hung Gar, I don't want to go into the details but want to correct some statements made.

We (Wing Lam Kung Fu) do not consider HSF to be an older system or predecessor of Ling Nam Hung Gar. In fact, the name, HaSayFu comes from the region that it was popular in, which is not Canton. It's lack of popularity has nothing to do with Communist or Hung Mun conspiracies.

The bulk (and maybe only) sources of information on this system comes from magazine articles and the instructional tapes. While most of these had consultation from Sifu, they also took creative license in areas. One reason Sifu wants the book out is to correct some of these misconceptions.

Without totally side tracking this thread, suffice it to say, I have met people in Hong Kong that know of HaSayFu. Sifu Wing Lam is not the only person to have learned it from Leung Si-Gung. That said, it is not prominent in any stretch of the imagination and is close to being an extinct system.

It is a 5 animal system that calls itself Hung Gar. The "documents" that Sifu have found do not show old Hung Gar but like GS Hu states, they are smaller family styles that are not connected. That said, HSF does share very close similarities to these "village" styles (a phrase I think coined by Gene Ching). Not surprisingly, non of these references talk about lineage.

I think it's great that someone is promoting HSF. It is a very deep system with some good concepts. If you look beyond the shell, it shares more similarity with the Ling Nam system then differences. This is especially true if you compare it with other southern China kung fu systems.

Back on topic, another source of historical WFH based hung gar can be found in South East Asia. Specifically, Malaysia is an interesting time capsule. Of course it has been influenced by the modern world but much of the Chinese community (outside of KL) has kept its traditions in tact from the first immigrants in the early 1900s.

brianlkennedy
01-02-2007, 07:33 PM
Thanks much to everyone for their help.

PM, I will tell Miro "hi" for you next time I see him---which is usually about once a year at some martial arts demo. And you asked about my lineage, it is:
Brian Kennedy (me) learned from Dirk Johnson in San Diego. Mr. Johnson learned from Buck Sam Kong in Hawaii. I am NOT a lineage holder, nor indoor student or any of that jazz.

What it looks like at this point is historical documents on hung gar amount to "not much", which is typical for Chinese martial arts. Truth be told I am not putting a lot of credence on 朱愚崙Zhu Yu-lun book. Although he is listed in the stock hung gar lineages, I suspect he was a Chinese journalist....and that is not a good thing (because they tend to grossly expand their stories, most of the horse**** about the Shaolin temple was generated by two or three different Chinese journalists writing in the 1920s).

Well in any event I will keep you all posted.

take care and thanks again,
Brian

PM
01-03-2007, 06:46 AM
Jyu 朱 was a student of Lam Saiwing (see the picture of him with Lam Saiwing at http://www.lghk.org/en/gallery/lsw.htm - left corner). is articles have a lot of very interesting info, but - i defimitelly aggree with the journalst/novelist thing.

all the best, thank you for your interesting posts

ursa major
03-21-2007, 11:02 AM
Hello,

Can anyone comment on the accuracy of the lineage listed in this web page?

I am particularily interested in the period post Lam Sai Wing.


http://www.ckka.net/html/lineage.html


regards.

brothernumber9
03-21-2007, 01:01 PM
I don't know what one is looking for, but it is well known that Sifu Y.C. Wong and Sifu Buck Sam Kong learned from Sifu Lam Jo and not his son. Edit: and that also Sifu Lam Jo learned from Lam Sai Wing, not from Wong Fei Hung.

There has been confusion in the past on the old SouthernFist boards about WONG Sai Wing and LAM sai wing.

David Jamieson
03-21-2007, 03:28 PM
who is li sai wing? and i agree, lam sai wing was lam jo's teacher by his own admission and lineage chart which is available. also his son lam chun fai did not teach buk sam kong or yc wong or wing lam.

The admission that the chart is skewed makes it suspect, especially when there are glaring errors in it that most every hung kuen player on the planet would know.

also "karate kungfu"? wtf?

*edit* a quick search n' google, followed by a couple of questions reveals that the only one holding up this name "li sai wing" is the same people who made this chart.

*edit 2* it would appear these are karate guys attempting to capitalize on the "kungfu market".
Yeesh. And there are a whole bunch of em around toronto.

ursa major
03-21-2007, 03:38 PM
I am trying to understand the line between Li Sai Wing and Chong Oi Mun, then from there into the Canadian Karate Kung Fu Association.

The lineage as shown on the web page is clearly trying to depict Hung Gar origins which to me indicates an attempt to draw credibility to the same association based upon those Hung Gar origins.

The generation under Chong Oi Mun is clearly oriented towards Karate (this is stated on the same web site). My difficulty is in understanding how the Hung Gar line fits into this picture? It does not make sense.


Best regards.

David Jamieson
03-21-2007, 04:00 PM
*edit 2* it would appear these are karate guys attempting to capitalize on the "kungfu market".
Yeesh. And there are a whole bunch of em around toronto.

not into feuding, but it's totally suspect. My personal opinion is that there simply is no connection to actual hung gar/ hung kuen lineages here.

ng ying kuen is a set from within the hung gar system, it isn't a style on it's own and to call the major pillars of hung kuen superfluous as has been found in some of thiose sites that link off there is basically admission of not having true connection.

karate. plain and simple. no hung kuen there.

ursa major
03-21-2007, 04:51 PM
...not into feuding, but it's totally suspect. My personal opinion is that there simply is no connection to actual hung gar/ hung kuen lineages here.

karate. plain and simple. no hung kuen there...


Nor should you consider yourself to be feuding. I suspected the authenticity as well -- which is why I brought it to this forum for other considered opinions.

Five Animal form is just one spoke in the Hung Gar wheel. What eludes me is the Karate connection. I sense that this Association is something to steer clear of.

Best regards,
UM

hasayfu
03-22-2007, 03:08 PM
Can’t really say much about this but there are a few red flags.

1) It appears that the YC Wong and Buck Sam Kong references are just to show “other” Famous Hung Gar instructors. Not sure where they got the data but my guess is that they confused a note from one of the Lam Chun Fai seminar promoters since many of them are BSK students. The way the lineage is displayed, it puts them on the same level. There is no direct ties to them.

2) AFAIK, Ng Ying is not a Lam Sai Wing set. True, most modern lineages from LSW has Ng Ying but it is just Sup Ying cut off after the 5th animal and done to make teaching easier. Tang Fung lineages have an Ng Ying set and no Sup Ying.

3) They talk about Hung Gar lineage but treat it as a single form.

Looking to this for accuracy is like asking a child about politics. He'll have a myopic view and mainly repeat what he hears from the adults around him.

ymotion
03-24-2007, 12:21 PM
I agree with Haysafu.

The lineage chart suspect. My Sifu (Yc Wong) was an apprentice of Sigung Lam Jo. He did not learn from Lam chung sing. They are classmates. As to Si-suk Buck Sam Kong, he did learn from Sigung, but as in most studios the sihings do a lot of teaching. So, to my knowledge Si-bak Lam Chan fai did teach si-suk Kong some(not si-suk chung sing), but he still is under Sigung Lam Jo.

Also the Lam lineage does definately not have the Ng Ying. Lam jo also is not a student of Wong fei Hung, but Lam sai wing.

I also have never heard of li sai wing. If this lineage chart were accurate that would place Chong oi Mun at the same age as Si-gung, Lam jo. Making him a classmate, possible but the time table seems off.

One last point. The old timers were VERY strict about mixing styles. Even my Si-gung. It is very unlikely, that someone from the Lam lineage to add Karate. Possible, but not likely.

ammocase
07-18-2007, 08:06 PM
Its crazy. I was mainly a karate guy, i trained in shotokan karate an kickboxing.It did not prepare me for this particular sifus style of Kung Fu. I will also state that i was never a fan of kung fu, but lately i've been watching a lot of kung fu movies an it paved the way for me to try out some kung fu.

I am currently recovering from a sprained ankle, so i have a lot of limitations in my training within the kwoon. First Hung gar school i went to try out wasnt so tough. But the one im in NOW 9 an the one i joined ) has us doing 3 sets of 50 push ups two times on piles of bricks, all together it would be 300 push ups on bricks... then we would pile bricks on our legs an hold it there while our sifu stands on us for what seemed like hours. Then we finished off with a horse stance for 30 minutes.... with of course.. BRICKS on our thighs adding weight. Very hardcore.. as i type this my fists are blood red an my body is sore all over.

Most of the routines is odd to me, with all the odd wide attacks of kung fu. The weapons an forms are beautiful. I just hope my body gets used to the push ups... thats the only tough part to me... an the horse stance training.

TenTigers
07-18-2007, 08:49 PM
wide attacks? explain.

ammocase
07-19-2007, 04:27 AM
More like indirect attacks. In karate it was straight direct point a to point b strikes. Only attack we did that wasnt "straight" was the hook punch, some side back fist strikes, but they were never wide like in kung fu, yesterday we were doing these wide swinging strikes while torquing around our hips.

gwa sow
07-19-2007, 06:53 AM
i study choy lay fut but it has a some of the same kind of strikes. a lot of people have trouble when they start with those wide swinging strikes. they feel real weird at first. keep practicing and you'll get it.

TenTigers
07-19-2007, 08:03 AM
it's all in how you apply it. Knowing the strikes and knowing when, why, and how to use them is what will make them effective. Just as in all MA, skills mean nothing until you understand how to use them, and make them fit, make them real.
The worst thing in the world is watching someone try to land these by using them incorectly. I've seen WC guys try to close using chain punches and get nailed before they are within striking range. I've seen HG guys try to land element punches and get hit before they get the strike out. I've seen TKD guys get nailed trying to throw roundhouse kicks, or get jammed. Learn to recognize the difference.
If you are at a school that teaches all these technniques, but when they fight are doing something else entirely, it is a sure sign that the teacher does not honestly understand his art.

thewutangmonk
09-24-2007, 03:21 PM
Hi!

Anyone been to the Lau Family Hung Gar school in HK ?

Or anyone been to Fo Shan to train Hung Gar?

Cheers

Hung gar
11-01-2007, 04:55 AM
www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmDGGfYsMw8

Golden Arms
11-01-2007, 09:53 AM
Looked really good :)

mok
11-01-2007, 10:47 AM
Yup - this is some of the best stuff out there.

thx for putting this up.

David Jamieson
11-06-2007, 10:41 AM
"O" is looking the solid.

thanks for sharing. :)

Tai-Lik
11-08-2007, 12:59 PM
excellent performance

jow yeroc
11-08-2007, 04:20 PM
Nice work!!

Laukarbo
12-27-2007, 11:21 PM
this is my Sihing Wayne ,he teaches in england..those clips were shot in HK..a few days ago..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTvy2GI_t8Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LWu3jaMXC8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8t5ou5r0AU


:D

mok
12-28-2007, 08:22 AM
this is my Sihing Wayne ,he teaches in england..those clips were shot in HK..a few days ago..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTvy2GI_t8Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LWu3jaMXC8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8t5ou5r0AU


:D


Laukarbo - every time I see Wayne it looks he's training ever harder and harder... Makes the rest of us feel like slackers. :)


Thanks for putting this up.

The Xia
12-28-2007, 05:10 PM
It's always great to see the Lau Family's quality Gung Fu.

diego
12-31-2007, 11:43 AM
this is my Sihing Wayne ,he teaches in england..those clips were shot in HK..a few days ago..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTvy2GI_t8Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LWu3jaMXC8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8t5ou5r0AU


:D

Youtube doesn't play on this comp, but I look forward to viewing your clips due to my knowledge of your past links:)

total suck up eh:) nah i just respect schools that love to train hard!.1

Laukarbo
12-31-2007, 05:22 PM
thanks diego,

yeah hard training is the standart in our HK kwoon..also our sifu likes to torture us or see us suffer...:D

hskwarrior
12-31-2007, 06:05 PM
much props to your sihing.........

diego
12-31-2007, 07:31 PM
thanks diego,

yeah hard training is the standart in our HK kwoon..also our sifu likes to torture us or see us suffer...:D

Very cool. :) The umbrella set and the double daggers remind me of lama, very light twisting rotations with the feet-play...The red flags at the handles of the blades, does that signify the bloodletting of the twin knives?.:cool:

Laukarbo
12-31-2007, 07:42 PM
those 2 mentioned sets coming from our malaysian lineage through Ho Kam Wai Sigung,they are not from WFH Hung Kuen thats why the flavour looks different than the typical Hung kuen..the double daggers come with the red flags when buying them..u could say its to iritate the eyes of the opponent but also it makes ur form look more flashy when performing...I think it really doesnt matter if u ever really have to use 2 daggers whether they have those flags or not...:D

diego
01-02-2008, 12:42 AM
those 2 mentioned sets coming from our malaysian lineage through Ho Kam Wai Sigung,they are not from WFH Hung Kuen thats why the flavour looks different than the typical Hung kuen..the double daggers come with the red flags when buying them..u could say its to iritate the eyes of the opponent but also it makes ur form look more flashy when performing...I think it really doesnt matter if u ever really have to use 2 daggers whether they have those flags or not...:D

When i was watching the form i got a visual one could use in a movie onsome anime ****:)...like buetifully mix the flags and the blood flying...something Tarantino would do if he made an old school japanese samurai flick updated with anime techniques...like kill bill on illegal substances...peace

eomonroe00
02-14-2008, 02:10 PM
can anyone recomend a few good hung gar schools in the new york queens area, all i have heard of is sifu yee, thanks

Wong Ying Home
02-14-2008, 03:27 PM
Try SiFu Shariff Bey, I think he is new york, and is very good

Satori Science
02-14-2008, 03:32 PM
Sharif is Yee's Hung Ga as well, but hes located in Syracuse NY. Check him @ Syracusekungfu.com

He is crazy dope though, that I definately agree with. :D

bamboo bug
02-14-2008, 03:39 PM
If you are looking for traditional, "old school" training in Hung Ga, I would recommend TEN TIGERS KUNG-FU ACADEMY (http://ten-tigers.com). They train hard, and take classes very serious.

I have known Sifu Rik for a long time, and he has a great amount of knowledge, and is also a good hearted person. This is not for the fly-by-night kung-fu guy, if you are serious about training, then check'em out.

Nebuchadnezzar
02-20-2008, 12:17 PM
can anyone recomend a few good hung gar schools in the new york queens area, all i have heard of is sifu yee, thanks

http://newyorkhungga.com/

They are Sifu Yee disciples as well.

ngokfei
02-20-2008, 07:48 PM
while the New York Hung Ga is lineaged to the Yee Organization they offer a much more diverse curiculum.

Classical Hung Ga
San shou/San Da Sport Fighting
Real World Self Defense utilizing Classical Techniques
A Stand Along Qi Gong Program that delves deeply into both the Hard and Softer Skills.

They have a full time TCM Clinic which also lends it self the the advanced level understanding of Qi Development & Manipulation as well as Physiology pertaining to the Techniques especially in the field of Dim Mak, etc.

Not you average cookie cutter school. Actually it was this school that forumulated much of what is now standard teaching format for most of the Yee's Schools.

ngokfei
02-20-2008, 07:50 PM
oh forgot to mention.

For a very Traditional School I'd recommend also Wan chi Ming's school. A very cultural and family based school. Also of the Tang Fung Lineage through Chan Tai Hing.

Doesn't Ho Lap tin lineage also have a school in the NYC/NJ region?

ngokfei
02-26-2008, 01:34 PM
Okay just got a recent update on the Curriculum of the Yee's Organization.

What I said about the Chelsea school being the source of the teaching format is now outdated.

Back in the early 90's a group of instructors at the Yee's Headquarters got together to format a structured Teaching Sylabus under the guidance of Sifu Yee. Very successful I might add.

When the main school on Grand STreet shut down there was a growth spurt of new schools opening. The Chelsea Branch supplied copies of their Teaching Format to the instructors of most of the other schools to use.

Now that there is a International Organization headed by my sihing Pedro Cepero. He was given the task to formulate a new standard teaching format for all of the federations branches.

nice and clear now:D

hung wei lo
03-28-2008, 06:56 PM
Greetings all. I too have been wondering who Li Sai Wing is, so I am glad to add to the conversation. Unfortuantely, I cannot shed more light on the person in question, but feel the need to respond to this discussion because unlike the other contributors I descend from a CKKA school.

The only person that I know of who may have met Li Sai Wing is Chong Oi Mun. At this time I will also state that I have never met Chong. But according to the CKKA website Chong met Li when he was still living in China, so I think it is possible that no one in Canada or the U.S would have met him. It is possible that Li was just simply a student amongst the thousands that trained under Lam Sai Wing. According to CKKA, Li left his Hung Gar training for whatever his reasons were. Who knows what the circumstances were between Li Sai Wing and Chong Oi Mun, how they met and where they trained etc. There are thousands of people practicing kung fu who are good martial artists and and hardly anyone knows their name or who they are. Also, it is quite possible that Li simply died without having the chance to leave much of a martial arts legacy. As well, and I may have my timeline mixed up, but isn't this around the same period when kung fu was being suppressed in China?

There is definitely a connection between the kung fu practiced by CKKA members and karate. A look at CKKA schools found online shows this. The connection is easy to explain and can be found on the CKKA website. According to the website Chong Oi Mun had a partner in founding the CKKA; someone who practiced and taught karate. Students of the association had access to both martial artists. The website also states that because of problems associated with triads etc, the karate aspect of the club was more visible. As well, during that period of martials arts in North America, karate was much more widely known and practiced than kung fu, hence the number of karate schools connected to Chong Oi Mun.

I have been practicing and studying the kung fu from this lineage for over twenty years, while living in both Canada and the U.S. People who train in the Korean, Japanese and Chinese martial arts have seen the forms from this lineage, and no one, absolutley no one, has ever told me that what I am practicing is karate. If this were so, this would have happened by now.

The kung fu from this lineage may not be as well known as other styles but I feel it is legitimate. I am not as concerned about how well known it's lineage is as I am about plumbing its depths for all it has to offer. I think I could practice for another twenty years and still have far to go. That's all for now. I hope those who have posted previously will see this and respond.

The Red Headed Step Child of CKKA,

Hung Wei Lo

Satori Science
03-30-2008, 05:04 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1pMfcvFU4A

enjoy

Sicilian Tofu M
03-31-2008, 02:44 PM
If I ever move back to upstate NY, I want him to be my sifu, if he'll accept me. Heck, I might drive a bit for a lesson next time I visit family in Windham.

Sicilian Tofu M
03-31-2008, 03:30 PM
Thought this fit's, if I'm highjacking sorry.
I don't think Wong Fei Hung can be his SiGung.
http://www.kungfuokc.com/school_website_2_001.htm

WinterPalm
03-31-2008, 03:44 PM
Another great vid!

diego
03-31-2008, 06:35 PM
Thanks for posting all these video:D

Satori Science
03-31-2008, 06:42 PM
I originally hadn't intended to put up some much at once but I needed somthing kung fu related to keep me busy the last few weeks while I healed.

These are just a good start, this summer is gonna be crazy, just wait;)

Fu-Pau
03-31-2008, 11:30 PM
I don't think Wong Fei Hung can be his SiGung.


...why not...?

banditshaw
04-01-2008, 01:07 AM
WFH passed in 1924. It's possible in the timeline that WFH could have had such a student.

Sicilian Tofu M
04-01-2008, 07:59 AM
I'll do more research, before I open my mouth next time. Insert foot in mouth, sorry.

Sifu at Large
04-18-2008, 04:40 AM
Hey all!

I am working on an ebook on Hung Gar. The book will be given out free of charge, so this has nothing to do with personal gain. This has turned into a much larger and longer term project than I had initially anticipated. Right now I am looking to make sure than no one is slighted. Of course, this is nearly impossible, but I am in real need of reliable information on Tang Fong and Lau Kar Lung. I think I have done a reasonably good job in treating the other lineages accurately, but my sections on these two are pretty short, and really want to do them justice.

Any help will be properly credited and deeply appreciated!

Wong Ying Home
04-18-2008, 08:48 AM
The two people who can aid you most in your search for info on the Lau family are Lau Kar Bo or contact SiFu Mark Ho in Hong Kong

Lau Jam

Lau Gar Leung

Mark Ho (Mark Houghton (sic?))

Lau Kar Bo (Franky Lau)

I believe the above lineage to be it that order. A web search will bring up web site for that above.

Hope that helps at least point you in the right direction

Nebuchadnezzar
04-18-2008, 03:04 PM
Try these links for Tang Fong lineage:

http://yeeshungga.com/clifton/

http://www.myspace.com/syracusekf

http://newyorkhungga.com/

Laukarbo
05-19-2008, 11:50 PM
another clip with Sifu Mark Ho...

here u can see the common techniques of most southern styles
gwa choi.cup choi,pow choi...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLNRI2zisqY

diego
05-19-2008, 11:56 PM
Always good to see clips from your camp:cool:

Gru Bianca
05-20-2008, 12:23 AM
another clip with Sifu Mark Ho...

here u can see the common techniques of most southern styles
gwa choi.cup choi,pow choi...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLNRI2zisqY

If wasn't for the fact that I know he his Hung Gar I would have thought he was explaining Pak hok Pai :)

Regards

Laukarbo
05-20-2008, 01:19 AM
yes thats true but you know the pak hok influence we have in hung fist so this shouldnt be a surprise...:D

Wood Dragon
06-15-2008, 10:11 PM
Having been referred here (from the general forum), my question is:

Hung Gar: What's it like (from a tactics, training and strategy point of view)?

How to the 5 Animals factor in? The Five Elements?


For Kyokushin practitioners, like myself, Hung Gar has often been pointed out as the Chinese Kyokushin ("Hardest Karate" => "Hardest Kung Fu").

Secondly, as I'm interested in learning:

If you had to pick 5 Hung Gar instructors in the United States (to include Hawaii) to learn from, who would you pick (and where are they based)?

Keep in mind that I am next to clueless on TMCA in general.

BruceSteveRoy
06-16-2008, 05:57 AM
i think its incorrect to call hung gar the hardest style. i have always been told (and i welcome any correction) hung gar starts off hard but works toward the "soft" or subtle side. all tcma have a hard and a soft side otherwise they wouldn't be balanced. but as for hung ga instructors in the u.s. i would pick in no particular order:

1. sifu sharif bey- Brooklyn (i think), NY (Yee's Hung ga)
2. sifu pedro yee- clifton, NJ (Yee's Hung Ga)
3. sifu wing lam- somewhere in ca i think

sanjuro_ronin
06-16-2008, 06:20 AM
Having been referred here (from the general forum), my question is:

Hung Gar: What's it like (from a tactics, training and strategy point of view)?

How to the 5 Animals factor in? The Five Elements?


For Kyokushin practitioners, like myself, Hung Gar has often been pointed out as the Chinese Kyokushin ("Hardest Karate" => "Hardest Kung Fu").

Secondly, as I'm interested in learning:

If you had to pick 5 Hung Gar instructors in the United States (to include Hawaii) to learn from, who would you pick (and where are they based)?

Keep in mind that I am next to clueless on TMCA in general.

My Hung kuen training has complimented my kyokushin very nicely.
Both are systems that focus on core and basics, can never go wrong that way.
There are advanced principles in Hung Gar that are "missing" in Kyokushin, so there is that advantage too, though taiji may be a better "finisher" for kyokushin.

Probably be better to give some indication where you live rather than ask for 5 teachers all over the states.

TenTigers
06-16-2008, 07:45 AM
not all Hung-Ga teachers are the same, and don't interpet Hung-Ga the same. Whereas some are very aggressive, attack oriented, many seem to have regressed into the block, block, block then strike tactic-which IMHO is not the way Hung-Ga was intended to be played. Too many schools have gotten away from why Hung-Ga was developed and now lean towards collecting forms, point tournaments, and pontificating on the concepts.

Like with any martial arts teacher-check out the school first. Many well-known teachers have reps built on magazine articles, tournament trophies, and great press, and actually have no substance. The only way to really know is to find out yourself. Make sure that they are not teaching kickboxing and calling it Hung-Ga. Even though a kick is a kick and a punch is a punch, there should be certain techniques and methodologies that are consistant with the style. Otherwise you can just keep doing what youre doing and buy some dvd's, right?

The above mentioned are all quality teachers. I would also add YC WOng in SF, Bill Fong in Statan Island,Franciso Rivera in New Mexico, Cheung Shu-Pui in Philly, if you are on or near Long Island, feel free to check us out as well. If you have any questions about the Five Animals, Five Elements, or theories,tactics, etc, you can e-mail or PM me.

4 Dragons
06-16-2008, 11:36 AM
Don't forget Grandmaster John S.S. Leong in Seattle!

TenTigers
06-16-2008, 11:54 AM
most definately! Still a big inspiration to me. I bought his book when it first came out, and now I order them from him directly for my students.

sanjuro_ronin
06-16-2008, 12:00 PM
most definately! Still a big inspiration to me. I bought his book when it first came out, and now I order them from him directly for my students.

Books?
I do believe that my collection is lacking in the decent Hung ga/r/kuen books.
*hint, hint*

banditshaw
06-16-2008, 02:02 PM
I'm not sure Wing Lam Sifu is teaching still, might be wrong though.

On the West coast(where I am located) the Sifu's I would recommend are.

Buck Sam Kong- LA

Y.C. Wong- SF

John Leong- Seattle

On the East Coast I've heard good things about the Yee's branches. Especially Sharif Bey's school.

Also I would check out Sifu Rik Kellerman's kwoon out as well.

I would have to agree with Ten's assesment of the Hung style.
Each Sifu I have seen has different teaching styles and different flavors.

Wood Dragon
06-16-2008, 02:58 PM
i think its incorrect to call hung gar the hardest style. i have always been told (and i welcome any correction) hung gar starts off hard but works toward the "soft" or subtle side. all tcma have a hard and a soft side otherwise they wouldn't be balanced. but as for hung ga instructors in the u.s. i would pick in no particular order:

1. sifu sharif bey- Brooklyn (i think), NY (Yee's Hung ga)
2. sifu pedro yee- clifton, NJ (Yee's Hung Ga)
3. sifu wing lam- somewhere in ca i think

Note: by "hardest", I meant "toughest", not a reflection of the mechanical aspects. This is, of course, subjective. It's just how Hung Gar is often described in the Karate community.

mok
06-17-2008, 06:16 AM
Note: by "hardest", I meant "toughest", not a reflection of the mechanical aspects. This is, of course, subjective. It's just how Hung Gar is often described in the Karate community.

Hardest in terms of training, but not necessarily in terms of contact, where I think very few CMA's measure up to Kyokushin's exacting standards...

Other than that - I second and third everything else that TT and banditshaw said.

BruceSteveRoy
06-17-2008, 06:44 AM
i don't know either whether sifu wing lam still teaches i have just heard that he runs a good school. i can't believe i forgot to put yc wong on that short list. i have heard that is a really good school as well.

B-Rad
06-17-2008, 08:42 AM
I'll add Tony Brown here in Columbus, Ohio to the instructor list

lkfmdc
06-17-2008, 08:57 AM
YC Wong has to be the top of the list here....

sanjuro_ronin
06-17-2008, 09:02 AM
YC Wong has to be the top of the list here....

No doubt, if there was one, it would be him.

Jim Anestasi
06-17-2008, 04:15 PM
Hung Gar as taught to me buy Grandmaster Ark Y.Wong was my favorite style. I learned several sets from him. Being a young big strong guy,he said it would be best that I learn it first. I enjoyed his method of teaching.

Jim Anestasi:)

hasayfu
06-19-2008, 01:42 PM
Sifu Wing Lam is still teaching but does not have a public school.
He accepts private students and continues to teach his senior students.

I carry on his Hung Gar teaching at a Shaolin school in Cupertino.

Tid Sin
06-19-2008, 04:15 PM
In Massachusetts, the Lam Jo lineage is represented via the following Sifu (in no particular order):

1) Winchell Woo - Boston;

2) Calvin Chin - Newton Highlands;

3) Yon Lee - Quincy @ Harvard University.

All of the mo kwoon are within about 20 - 30 minutes of each other.

Tid Sin
06-19-2008, 04:22 PM
On the West Coast, Kong Buck Sam Sifu's students are also representing the Lam Gar Hung Kuen (in no particular order):

-Vernon Rieta, Sifu (CA);

-Donald Hamby, Sifu (CA);

-Eddie Lane, Sifu (WA);

-Fred Lee, Sifu (CA);

-Don Morrison, Sifu (OK);

-Seng Jeorng Au, Sifu (HI).

htowndragon
06-21-2008, 02:29 PM
i heard good things about chiu chi ling

Wood Dragon
06-21-2008, 11:29 PM
Thanks for the info, guys. I appreciate it.

Wood Dragon
06-21-2008, 11:38 PM
It's from a movie, but is this clip a good representation of the Hung Gar katas?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcNclS-ad0Y

banditshaw
06-22-2008, 09:43 PM
Yeah I would have to say that they are fine examples. Plus the way they were shot on the soundstage adds some ooomph as well.

omarthefish
06-22-2008, 10:02 PM
Just came in here to lurk. Don't post much any more these days but this thread gave me a little lump in my throat. Makes me feel pretty good to see so many people put YC Wong, my Sifu, on their short list. I spent 8 years with him. I may have moved on to Baji and Taiji but I have learned recently that when the **** hits the fan, I still tend to fall back on my Hung Gar. Just really **** solid basic fighting. It gets pretty subtle after a while but doesn't everything?

And also, yes, this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcNclS-ad0Y ...is pretty **** good. That's what's so cool about the Shaw Brother's stuff from that era. They used to showcase some real ****. The first section of that video contains the longest and most accurate film portrayal of a Hung Gar form I have ever seen. He's doing gong ji, one of the 4 "pillars" of Hung Gar. Gong Ji, Fu Hok, Sup Yin and Tid Sien.

Also, as long as everyone agrees that YC Wong has to be on your short list, check out his site to answer your original question. He lays down a pretty good breakdown of the sets here: http://www.tigercrane.com/hghf.html Look especially at the description of Sup Ying Kuen (Ten Form Fist) for your question regarding how the animals and the elements work into things.

DMK
06-26-2008, 05:41 AM
Just wandering if the guys in hung ga use weight training?Or do they use there iron wire training to develop their arms and forearms?

TenTigers
06-26-2008, 07:49 AM
both. Hung-Ga practitioners use different forms of training-rolling iron bars or barbells on the forearms, lifting jars with their fingertips,various resistance training as well. In our school, we've added belt-cracking from shuai-jiao to the standard warm-up, because it is so good in developing the wrist and hands and power generation.

DMK
06-26-2008, 08:02 AM
Thanks TenTigers I have not heard of iron bar rolling on the forearms, I assummed the iron rings ,but i know there a a zillion ways to get the same results.

TenTigers
06-26-2008, 08:10 AM
not same results-each method trains specific strengths. Iron rings serve different purposes-conditioning,and several different types of power generation. Iron bar rolling also conditions, but develops a different type of power generation. The idea is that one exercise doesn't cover everything so you need to hit it at different angles. Same goes with training a person to fight. There are many types of sparring, from isolation drills, to bare knuckle contact sparring, to all out full gear sparring, etc.

David Jamieson
06-26-2008, 06:33 PM
look to the lower right (http://www.hkhunggar.com/Chiu%20Wai%20877.JPG)

sanjuro_ronin
06-27-2008, 04:34 AM
look to the lower right (http://www.hkhunggar.com/Chiu%20Wai%20877.JPG)

He was always in amazing shape.

Most southern stylists I know do weight training of some sort.
Goju is notorious for it and so is Uechi.
Or at least they were.
I do ST on a regualr basis, depending on the schedule, 1-2 week.
Typically the major ones:
Deadlfits
Chins
Dips
Squats
Over head presses.
And some isolation ones like wrist exercise and calf raises for those hard to reach areas ;)

PM
06-27-2008, 10:56 AM
few LGHK Application Drills (saan sau 散手): kicks, strikes, throws, submission (tek da syut na 踢打摔拿). video was shot during my sifu's seminars in my school.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GdxrbowD5s

SDJerry
06-27-2008, 01:16 PM
Kettlebells!!!

Kettlebells are really a great tool for just about every aspect of training. If you want to work endurance, grab a lighter bell and snatch it for ten minutes or do circuit training for time verses reps. If you want to get stronger then grab the heaviest bell you can tout with good form and do ladders of 5. Snatches, rows, deadlifts, squats, turkish getups, windmills, walking swings... all that good stuff.

I also do plenty of bodyweight stuff with some sandbag and club bell training mixed in.

David Jamieson
06-28-2008, 06:13 AM
Kettlebells!!!

Kettlebells are really a great tool for just about every aspect of training. If you want to work endurance, grab a lighter bell and snatch it for ten minutes or do circuit training for time verses reps. If you want to get stronger then grab the heaviest bell you can tout with good form and do ladders of 5. Snatches, rows, deadlifts, squats, turkish getups, windmills, walking swings... all that good stuff.

I also do plenty of bodyweight stuff with some sandbag and club bell training mixed in.

Did you read the question SD Jerry? :p

SoCo KungFu
06-29-2008, 04:23 PM
look to the lower right (http://www.hkhunggar.com/Chiu%20Wai%20877.JPG)

dude its all in the belt....i need to get me one of those....

David Jamieson
06-30-2008, 04:54 AM
looks like a standard wide kidney protecting lifting belt to me. Probably hard to find these days as they make them differently now. Get a double wide sash and a regular kidney belt to achieve the same type of support I guess.

DMK
07-02-2008, 10:41 AM
Don' t forget Sifu Mike Marshall

ChuangkTzu
07-03-2008, 06:29 PM
few LGHK Application Drills (saan sau 散手): kicks, strikes, throws, submission (tek da syut na 踢打摔拿). video was shot during my sifu's seminars in my school.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GdxrbowD5s

Thanks for posting that PM, I enjoyed it.

mok
07-07-2008, 06:59 PM
FuHok from BSK's Siu Lum Pai (Jose Ramos, student of Buck Sam Kong):
YouTube - Jose Ramos - Hung Gar - Kong's Siu Lum Pai (http://youtube.com/watch?v=atc8OGCdHKI)


Lam Chun Fai sifu, double sword demo (1974):
YouTube - Lam Chun Fai - 1974 - Hung Gar (http://youtube.com/watch?v=UAErTb7FgJI)


Frank Yee (Yee Chi Wai) long pole:
YouTube - Hung gar - Yee Chi Wai (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmKz8wxc0fI)

TenTigers
07-07-2008, 11:30 PM
isn't Jose Ramos the guy in BSK's book? Very cool to see him perform.

My Sifu taught me a version of that double broadsword set so many years ago. This has always been a favorite due to its practicality and lack of flash and ground rolling-which I personally don't care for.

Sifu Yee has always been known for his strong staff work. His Ng Long Bot Gwa Gwun is a powerful set. I have seen many people perform it, but it is very difficult to maintain the energy throughout, and few can do it justice. This is like a textbook-inspiring.
Do you have any more? Keep 'em coming!

hung wei lo
08-15-2008, 06:06 PM
Recently I was visiting with a kung fu brother. He was saying that he knows some people question the connection between our style and the karate people listed on the CKKA website. He said that he really didn't care about what they thought, and that the people who train in karate and our style practiced karate first before coming to Chong Oi Mun to learn kung fu. Seems reasonable to me.

The question still remains: Who is Li Sai Wing? after all, that's what this thread is supposed to be about.

Hung Wei Lo

wiz cool c
08-28-2008, 07:15 AM
Any videos of Yee's Hung Gar doing San Da out there. I know thery fight but can't find any videos.

Laukarbo
01-14-2009, 07:30 AM
some drills from our training...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWO_jjYOFBs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joeZXAUO3DM

some drills from our training...

:D

TenTigers
01-14-2009, 09:07 AM
nice stuff Bro! Too many Kung-Fu schools rely on two-man sets, punching and kicking air, and forms practice. Not enough hitting stuff. Keep it up!

btw-when Kung-Fu schools complain about dwindling numbers of students, if they just add more pad drills, their enrollment would increase. People-not just kids, but everyone, loves hitting stuff. Pad drills are fun, exhausting-sweat means happy in most schools, empowering, energizing,and important.

Golden Arms
01-14-2009, 10:34 AM
Both of those were great. I train a lot of drilling and hitting, and I can say the same as TT, students love it, since it gives them an outlet as well as an indicator of how well they can do things before they start sparring a lot.

David Jamieson
01-14-2009, 01:00 PM
That little tiger looks like he's having a grand time!

GLW
01-14-2009, 01:02 PM
I enjoy doing drills but have run into a couple of things in classes that are either annoying or surprising.

The first is that unless you have a bit of money invested in equipment or students who are OK with buying their own focus equipment, you can end up making a bottleneck in the class... The old One person with focus mitt on one person punching, and everyone else waiting in line....

Or, you are spending time one on one...and the rest of the class is not getting instruction or structure. Annoying....

Surprising... The first class I was in where I had to hold the kicking target, bag, focus mitt, etc..., I KNEW how to hold it. I knew I needed to be rooted if there was kicking involved...maybe I wasn't rooted well enough...but I knew I had to do it and if I moved back, I knew to root but be prepared to go with it with balance instead of falling on my rear.

Now, with most in a class, they don't hold the target well, they put them at the wrong angle, they fall down, are surprised when there is actually some force behind a technique...(I mean, why are you kicking it if you aren't going to use force...why punch it if you are not putting FOCUS and POWER into it?

So, I now take a bit of time with newbies to teach them how to hold the targets. Puzzles me since no one ever did that for me....but what the heck.

David Jamieson
01-14-2009, 01:51 PM
two words - Circuit Training


first create the circuits, make sure they logically develop similar attributes, whole body attributes, specific to fighting attributes, structure, strength, principle etc etc.

teach everyone how to be a partner for drills that require pads, mitts etc.

as teacher, move from circuit position to circuit position, make necessary corrections and so on.

In my opinion, it is useful to develop several circuit routines so that students always have a lot to do and a lot to learn.

you can even break it up so that you are running two or more circuits depending on the size of your class.

some can be doing conditioning circuits, others can do strength circuits, others do striking circuits and so on.

:-)

wetwonder
01-14-2009, 02:03 PM
I've done the pad drills about a dozen times now, and my impression is that, aside from practicing technique, it serves as much for building strength in the person holding the pad.

After doing roundhouse kicks back and forth a few hundred times over a half hour, my shoulders hurt from holding the pads just as much as my hips from making the kicks.

Laukarbo
01-14-2009, 06:59 PM
wow,first of all thanks for the many comments..

I get what GLW is saying..the answer already came from David..we do rotations..mostly we are not more than 8 students..so i put them each with a partner..so 2 work with the focus mits,2 are on the heavy bag,2 with kicking shields and 2 do saam sing/ etc. theres always a way..

Also its true in the beginning the student really dont know how to "feed" the partner when holding the mits/pats so yes he also needs to learn it

:D

sanjuro_ronin
01-16-2009, 07:20 AM
Not a big fan of the "defensive drilling" one myself, he tends to reach for his blocks way too much, a "curse" of that particular drill.
The pad one was nice.
Beginner drills I assume, yes?