modernization and terrorism

[MightyB]

So- what do we need to do to make TCMA work?

There was another mass shooting at a college yesterday... How do you incorporate that into a martial arts program? I know that there are people who specialize in that type of training like Jim Wagner, Combat Krav Maga, Kapap etc---

Do any of you incorporate that style of training in your programs, and if you do, what types of things do you do to train terrorism survival?


The B

[MightyB]

for a real situation- I'm not talking about the 1 on 1 close quarter disarm techniques taught in most kwoons- but things like: if you're on a plane that's being hijacked- or your in a building and a gunman enters, suicidal bomb attacks, sniper attacks- etc.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Even trained professional can have issues with these situations, I don't think books and DVD's and the typical crap taught at any TMA or Sport art can handle situations like this.
Certainly not in the case of trained terrorists.

Even anti and counter Terrorist teams rely on guns VS guns and even they sometimes don't get the best results.

[MightyB]

I'm picking up what you're putting down Sanjuru-

but I'm not talking about walking into a gunfight with my bare hands... I'm just saying- there are ways to evacuate, ways to stay out of sight lines, ways to keep from being in the cross hairs that could at least be discussed- I did a little research and found that Juval Aviv may have the right stuff.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I'm picking up what you're putting down Sanjuru-

but I'm not talking about walking into a gunfight with my bare hands... I'm just saying- there are ways to evacuate, ways to stay out of sight lines, ways to keep from being in the cross hairs that could at least be discussed- I did a little research and found that Juval Aviv may have the right stuff.

Awareness and things of that nature?

Normally I would say common sense but I know that is in short supply with the vast majority of people.

[Black Jack II]

The shooting was just another sad example of what a failure "gun free zones" are.

Typical liberal retarded group think, where has it gotten them, just more bodies that did not have the chance to defend themselves because of dumb****ery.

[Shaolin Wookie]

if you're on a plane that's being hijacked...

Why not just arm all of the passengers? If not with firearms (that would be stupid at such elevation), then at least with tazers.

[Shaolin Wookie]

The shooting was just another sad example of what a failure "gun free zones" are.

Typical liberal retarded group think, where has it gotten them, just more bodies that did not have the chance to defend themselves because of dumb****ery.

I'm not gonna poke at you BJ, but what exactly do you mean by "gun free zones"? I don't understand. Are you saying students should have the option of being armed, or there should be more armed guards on campus?

Not judging, just askin'....as I'm not resolved on that issue just yet.

[NJM]

Why not just arm all of the passengers? If not with firearms (that would be stupid at such elevation), then at least with tazers.

The 9/11 planes were hijacked with boxcutters.

It's not an issue of overpowering the hijackers, it's a psychological issue.

[MightyB]

Awareness and things of that nature?

Normally I would say common sense but I know that is in short supply with the vast majority of people.

... but- elementary schools are starting to incorporate lock down drills- they're prepping for worst case scenarios. The only problem is that they still don't teach the kids and teachers about sight lines and angles- like where exactly in the room is the best place for cover, etc.

These are things that could be included in TMA- they probably should be, but they aren't. So how would people incorporate this type of stuff and where do you find information on policies and tactics for worst case scenarios?

(Yeah-buts live in the woods)

[sanjuro_ronin]

There are a few guys that teach this stuff , Gabe Suarez o Suarez Int. for one.
I think that most local LEA or even the state FBI branches can send people to bring this to the masses in terms of schools and what not.
In terms of TMA training and Sport Combat arts, it falls on the coachs/teachers to see the void and fill it, again by calling your local FBI or equivelent and asking what programs they have that are available to the public.
Or your local NRA/gun range might have info on places like that, like the HK shooting programs for example.

[Lee Chiang Po]

There is really no way to defend against a gun, and one should only try to defend against a knife if it comes to that point where he has to. I can cut anyone. And It would be almost suicide to attempt to take a knife from me. But I am sure that it could probably happen under the right conditions. Anyone that is good with a knife would be as difficult to defend against. You would need to be prepared to be cut. A gun makes anyone deadly. No matter how small or feeble. Here in Texas it is understood that the police can not help you. They come in and do a who done it and that is about it. They may or may not catch the shooter. So they have made it legal to carry a concealed gun. You have to be licensed of course, but you are armed and deadly. We had a case way back when a man went onto a Windy's restaurant and started shooting people as he just walked down the line. He killed a bunch of people. Had a few of them been armed that would have come to an abrupt stop really quick. Even today there are those that do not agree with this, and outside the establishment they will have a big sign with a gun on it. The gun will have a red circle around it and a red slash through the gun. This is a gun free zone. The problem with this is that the shooters will not leave their gun in the truck. I will not go into any establishment that has such a sign.
It might be a good idea to arm everyone that gets on a plane. Then take the guns up once they are on the ground again. Rubber bullets maybe? There might be accidents, but not likely to kill anyone. A hijacker would have to be absolutely insane to stand up and announce a takeover. A locked ****pit door with controls over the pressurization of the rest of the plane would be enough. If someone decided to hijack the plane, the pilot could just depressurize the plane and when everyone was out he could repressurize it. Then they could pick out the hijackers and toss them off the plane.

[mawali]

So- what do we need to do to make TCMA work?

There was another mass shooting at a college yesterday... How do you incorporate that into a martial arts program? I know that there are people who specialize in that type of training like Jim Wagner, Combat Krav Maga, Kapap etc---

Do any of you incorporate that style of training in your programs, and if you do, what types of things do you do to train terrorism survival?

The B

There is no room for BS in any terrorism situation! I mean a gunman shooting innocent bystanders inside a building (in this case) requires a lethal response, i.e. get in, clear the room, eliminate the enemy!

Self defense training is rarely realistic in martial arts programmes as taught today!
The best training methods are a combination of BJJ, Judo, shuaijiao or silat/escrima or the individual art themselves because they harden the individual.

[BUK SING]

hte only real way is to teach attacks that will either knock an opponent out in one move or kill them in one move and of course that will only work if theirs one of them, a lot of you or their in separate rooms and even then it still more likely to go their way. alot more likely.

[rogue]

Here's what a well run terrorist operation looks like.
Beslam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_hostage_crisis)

Read about it and you'll have a good idea about what you have to do.

BTW guys, stop thinking about techniques and more how you're going to keep yourself from turning into a living, breathing, mindless lump of meat huddled in the corner. How are you going to keep enough of your wits to be in the moment in order to see if you have a chance?

[Drake]

Fact of life.... when the bullets start flying, all of that stuff goes out the window. I don't care how good you think you are.

[MightyB]

see- aren't relevant posts fun. Street/reality fighting my arse- nothing but schoolyard scuffles. Reality means guns, rape, car jacking, b and e, muggings, drive by's, and snipers. Reality is murder to the Nth degree and terrorrists.

[rogue]

Well actually reality is anything from the common trading words and rude gestures to the incredibly rare terrorist and sniper. Reality is losing a stupid street scuffle and walking around with that mental scar even if you weren't physically hurt. Reality is whatever happens and not something we put into boxes.


BTW A few odds and sods I've picked up.

When the bullets are flying don't run to cover but run the shortest distance that will put the cover between you and the bullets.

In a hostage situation escape is your only priority.

Remember Sanford Strong's four survival rules - react immediately, resist, avoid crime scene #2, and never give up.

Dry wall is concealment not cover.