Ng Lun Chui

[Drake]

Anybody know offhand how many variants of the Ng Lun Chui are out there?

Sifu Frank...any links to some non-GM DFW versions? I just like knowing what my brothers on the other side of the fence are doing. :)

And for an update, GM Doc Fai Wong has been an incredible DL teacher so far. Highly recommended.

[Eddie]

we do che kuen.
Ive seen Doc Fei Wongs Ng lung choy and its similar to che keun

[Drake]

we do che kuen.
Ive seen Doc Fei Wongs Ng lung choy and its similar to che keun

He said that is what it was called back in the day.

[Eddie]

yeah i know the whole story, just thought to let you know. I have a book with your ng lung choy and its easy to see the similarity. thats what i meant.

i think there are probably allot of variations of the form. Each school does it differently. I suppose its all about the principles that matters. Id say che kuen is good for teaching you how to use stance transitions with hand techniques. Good form.

[Drake]

yeah i know the whole story, just thought to let you know. I have a book with your ng lung choy and its easy to see the similarity. thats what i meant.

i think there are probably allot of variations of the form. Each school does it differently. I suppose its all about the principles that matters. Id say che kuen is good for teaching you how to use stance transitions with hand techniques. Good form.

Yes, I'm loving it. I wouldn't recommend the video unless you were a student, but it shows more clearly how the form works. But you are right... it's all about the principles. It's just fascinating to see how other lineages do it. Sifu Lance showed me his family's Ng Lun Ma, and it was almost completely different from mine.

Do the various CLF lineages match on any forms that you know of? For example, an identical staff or cross hands form?

[CLFNole]

Generally there will be some slight variations but you can always tell when a set is the same.

[Eddie]

With Sifu Lance, you mean CLFNole? Hes one of my kung fu heros and im proud to say my kung fu brother.

We have a set stance form (or rather two), but I usually end up mixing my stances every now and then. Though sticking to the form is also good, I just like variation.

I think I have seen the DFW Ng long Choy form. I think I have a video somewhere with him or his son doing the form.

I see allot of good san shou moves in che kuen. I mean the whole first part (gwa choy cheung ahn choy charp choy) is such a typical boxing and san shou move.

Great form. I wish more people would emphasise the basics.

[Drake]

With Sifu Lance, you mean CLFNole? Hes one of my kung fu heros and im proud to say my kung fu brother.

We have a set stance form (or rather two), but I usually end up mixing my stances every now and then. Though sticking to the form is also good, I just like variation.

I think I have seen the DFW Ng long Choy form. I think I have a video somewhere with him or his son doing the form.

I see allot of good san shou moves in che kuen. I mean the whole first part (gwa choy cheung ahn choy charp choy) is such a typical boxing and san shou move.

Great form. I wish more people would emphasise the basics.


Yes, I'm referring to CLFNole. I agree with your assessment of him.

Ours is a bit different. Yum tsop, lau kiu, gwa chui, cheung ahn choy. The best thing I am getting from that is the shifting mechanics and the applications.

[CLFNole]

The beginning to ours has a pattern of gwa choy, cheung ahn choy and yum chop. I think I have seen DFWs version I'll have to check one of my old tapes but I think it is similar to ours.

[jdhowland]

I've never seen one like ours, either. The beginning pattern is: gwa, sou, da, poon kiu with cheung ngan cheui, yam chap.
(Ho Ngau style).

JD

[ngokfei]

What is the history of this set?

How Old is it?

Was it created to be a beginners set?

[CLFNole]

Very old and one of the two primary beginning sets - ng lun ma (5 wheel horse) & ng lun choy (5 wheel fist). Another name for ng lun ma is li ma (translates something to the effect of "stretch the stance") and another name for ng lun choy is che kuen (translates something like "practice the fist").

[Drake]

Very old and one of the two primary beginning sets - ng lun ma (5 wheel horse) & ng lun choy (5 wheel fist). Another name for ng lun ma is li ma (translates something to the effect of "stretch the stance") and another name for ng lun choy is che kuen (translates something like "practice the fist").

Sifu Lance,
Seeing as these two forms are the foundation, historically, do you know how practice with them factored into training time? For example, was ng lun ma training conducted for hours at a time along with ng lun chui due to both sets being so comprehensive, or was the old training regimen more diverse?

I've also read that the wall bag set must be performed at least 5 times a day for several years in order to build conditioning. Does your lineage follow the same mantra?

[CLFNole]

Well I wasn't alive 180 years ago so how it was used then would be a mystery. With my own line (LKH) from what I was told in the early years when sifu taught as well as when he himself was a student it would take like 6 months (maybe more) learning these 2 sets along with applications and conditioning.

While it is not done this way now for various reasons this is a very good way of doing things as it really lays the foundation for your kung fu.

[Eddie]

I took spend 1 year on Che Kuen :eek:

[ngokfei]

yeah the father you are away from the martial arts business machine the better (or I should say Traditional) training is readily available.

Shame in some instances how Kung Fu is just another label for Kenpo & Karate;)
The Buisness formula works no matter what style/system or even if its not MA.

[CLFNole]

It is not that it is not traditional it is that each thing has its place in modern society. Today we teach both forms to beginners but it is not officially part of the curiculum. When I was learning it was only taught to a special class of more dedicated students.

It doesn't really have anything to do the martial arts business machine but rather the patience or lack thereof of many western students.

[ngokfei]

"Patience" huh, isn't that what we advertise as one of the benefits of studying Martial ARts.:confused:

Patience, Self Conficence, Self Discipline, etc

Lets just be truthful. If beginners had to learn those repetitive sets they would quit, also they don't do well in tournaments.

Imagine doing Tan Tui as a tournament set:D

[CLFNole]

That is exactly why the forms we are discussion really weren't taught much in the US when my sifu came over. But just becuase you don't teach doesn't make it non-traditional when all the other sets are still taught. Let's face it you have to walk a fine line balancing true tradition and a business. Things can be changed without "selling out" so to speak.

[Drake]

My GM is making me learn the sets. He's very traditional. Doesn't let me pick up anything new until I get them down, either. I've spent quite a bit of time at they gym after work and during my lunch break working on these sets. I wouldn't call them boring, though. You just have to work to make them exciting.

[CLFNole]

This can work in an example like yours where you are learning by yourself. It can be tricky doing it in a large school.

[Drake]

This can work in an example like yours where you are learning by yourself. It can be tricky doing it in a large school.


So what is the solution, then?

[CLFNole]

I think how we do it now works pretty good. We teach in conjunction with the normal curriculum, not something they have to spend 6 months learning.

[Drake]

I think how we do it now works pretty good. We teach in conjunction with the normal curriculum, not something they have to spend 6 months learning.

When I did mantis locally, the guy did something similar. He taught a lot of applications, and then began teaching us a form near the end.