dis-respect ?

[duckabolo]

Hi, I want to know your opinion on someone training at more than one wing chun school at the same time. If you are that student would you feel disrespectful towards your sifu. If you are the sifu would you be upset that your student has another sifu. Of-course each case may be different depending on the sifu/student. The sifu might be very happy that the student is keen on the art etc etc.
Just want to hear your thoughts?


In the past, especially in chinese tradition you can only have one sifu. If you have another sifu, it must be granted by the original sifu first otherwise you'd probably get kicked out.

Duck

[anerlich]

If everyone involved knows what's going on and is accepting of it it's OK. Not telling someone you train with that you're also training with someone else makes you a bit of a d*ck.

Good manners transcend any Chinese tradition.

[Liddel]

I agree with Andrew, although if i was the teacher i wouldn't be keen on it.

If however the student was learning another style, that would be fine with me.

MHO.

DREW

[Matrix]

In the past, especially in chinese tradition you can only have one sifu. If you have another sifu, it must be granted by the original sifu first otherwise you'd probably get kicked out.Sure, it could be considered disrespectful, but I'm on-side with Andrew and DREW.
There's also a practical point to be considered, the person who trains under two different sifus will probably not learn either system very well. Even 2 Wing Chun schools from the same lineage will have a different approach to the art, so it may difficult to do well in both variations.

Bill

[couch]

Sure, it could be considered disrespectful, but I'm on-side with Andrew and DREW.
There's also a practical point to be considered, the person who trains under two different sifus will probably not learn either system very well. Even 2 Wing Chun schools from the same lineage will have a different approach to the art, so it may difficult to do well in both variations.

Bill

I agree and might add that this is true of any "style." Even in boxing gyms, coaches have different approaches and I think it would be extremely difficult to go to two boxing gyms at the same time.

Obviously, you want to watch out for "cult-like" student retention (where you can't train ANYWHERE else, can't tell anyone you're doing kung-fu, shouldn't spar with it, etc), but if the student is straight-up about what he/she wants to learn and the teacher is straight-up about what they can give, all is well.

Best,
Kenton

[monji112000]

Hi, I want to know your opinion on someone training at more than one wing chun school at the same time. If you are that student would you feel disrespectful towards your sifu. If you are the sifu would you be upset that your student has another sifu. Of-course each case may be different depending on the sifu/student. The sifu might be very happy that the student is keen on the art etc etc.
Just want to hear your thoughts?


In the past, especially in chinese tradition you can only have one sifu. If you have another sifu, it must be granted by the original sifu first otherwise you'd probably get kicked out.

Duck
it could be. If you make it a issue, someone is going to say something. If you are cool about it.. prob not. If they are very similar then ... its probably not a smart idea.

[LoneTiger108]

What was that saying?

"You can't ride two horses with one a$$"

Being passed to another Sifu, or leaving one for another are peoples individual choices (sometimes!) If you want to get an overview of other families, learn to talk, exchange and compare variations with a good heart and good intentions. I'd always promote the seminar curcuit to students as a way to experience this.

Although personally I'd wish for students to stay loyal, I'm only a coach of sorts. I have no real hold over them or their future. And if they wanted to learn from a known Sifu in WCK, I'd find a way to make an introduction in their interest.

Of course, I'd always leave the door open in case they wanted to return with their newfound knowledge! :D

[anerlich]

There's also a practical point to be considered, the person who trains under two different sifus will probably not learn either system very well. Even 2 Wing Chun schools from the same lineage will have a different approach to the art, so it may difficult to do well in both variations.

That is a good point.

If the curricula are different, you're probably going to spend most of your time in a state of confusion, or at least in trying to integrate the two slants into a coherent whole. Inefficient.

If one teacher for one art isn't good enough, you probably want to change teachers rather than supplement one's deficiencies with the other.

I can see issues where one teacher might not run classes often enough and so you get extra from another aligned teacher, and that might be legit. But I'd see these as exceptional circumstances.

Generally, though, the multi teacher scenario might only work well for disparate arts.

Again, if you're doing something you don't want one of the teachers to know about, either you or one of them is being unreasonable, inconsiderate or dishonest. It is unlikely that anything good will come of such a situation.

[Museumtech]

I trained TWC under GM Cheung from 1979 - 1984. 22 years later I took the art up again with my youngest son at a school I found close to home. I chose it because it was close, though mainly because it was run by Bruce Corles who trained with me in 1984 and continued on with GM Cheung until he started his own school. (Bruce can be seen in some of Phil Redmond's 1999 Hong Kong demo clips). As a life member of William Cheung's school I decided to train there one day a week as well.

I find that this keeps me in touch with my roots and helps expose me to different view points. While I need to remember some subtle differences in the way they each perform the form I don't find the experience confusing. To the contrary, training with a different group once a week actually reinforces what I am learning. Note I have started again from scratch and am now at level four. I only grade at the one school but the other accepts my rank.

Both schools are aware of my duel citizenships and no one is offended.

Peter Lillywhite

[tjwingchun]

I have always advised my students to go and try out as many different schools or instructors as I have nothing to hide as my Wing Chun is simply that "MY" Wing Chun not "THE" Wing Chun, any questions that arise I am willing to answer as best I can.

However I know of a few instructors who either tell people who train with them never to show their methods to any other school, or have banished students when they found out they were also coming to my classes.

To me Wing Chun is a science and as such is just knowledge, to find the right instructor/school you also have to feel that it offers you the best opportunity to develop in a safe and friendly environment, without getting ripped off :D.

When people are starting out in Wing Chun, again I advise to try different schools before dedicating to one, to try and find the one most suited to the individual.

The open-mindedness of the instructor tells you as whether or not it is OK to tell him you are visiting other schools. :eek:

[sanjuro_ronin]

Sure, it could be considered disrespectful, but I'm on-side with Andrew and DREW.
There's also a practical point to be considered, the person who trains under two different sifus will probably not learn either system very well. Even 2 Wing Chun schools from the same lineage will have a different approach to the art, so it may difficult to do well in both variations.

Bill

This seems to be only applicable to TMA that are not "practical oriented", it doesn't seem to be an issue with sport combat arts for example.

[couch]

This seems to be only applicable to TMA that are not "practical oriented", it doesn't seem to be an issue with sport combat arts for example.

I disagree. Boxing coaches can have way different approaches to technique. I couldn't imaging training with two boxing coaches at the same time.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I disagree. Boxing coaches can have way different approaches to technique. I couldn't imaging training with two boxing coaches at the same time.

I did, few times actually and still did Boxing when doing MT, heck did MT while doing kyokushin.
Never had issues.
Have had probably 5 different boxing coaches in my time and the only problem was that ALL of them hated when I switch hitted.
Other than that they ALL coached the same way with a few minor differences ( coaching styles and methodologies).

[couch]

I did, few times actually and still did Boxing when doing MT, heck did MT while doing kyokushin.
Never had issues.
Have had probably 5 different boxing coaches in my time and the only problem was that ALL of them hated when I switch hitted.
Other than that they ALL coached the same way with a few minor differences ( coaching styles and methodologies).

Good to hear. I stand corrected from your experience. During my short stint in boxing, I saw many people come through the doors that had major differences than what the coach wanted. A lot of "style" things and a lot of practical matters, too.

Best,
Kenton

[sanjuro_ronin]

Good to hear. I stand corrected from your experience. During my short stint in boxing, I saw many people come through the doors that had major differences than what the coach wanted. A lot of "style" things and a lot of practical matters, too.

Best,
Kenton

Sometimes its a question of coming in with habits that don't suit your style of fighting or body type.
Most coaches are suppose to take that into account, some don't.
Stubby armed fighters shouldn't be "dancers".
Sometimes coaches think that they can mold a fighter into what they think he shoudl be instead of focusing on what the person naturally does best right off the bat.

[Wu Wei Wu]

I don't see any conflict in training at two Wing Chun clubs as long as the teachers are amenable to the idea. You should be intelligent enough to recognise the differences and make the necessary adjustments depending on which class you are in.

I did it when I started in '93 because I felt training just twice a week as that club offered wasn't enough. So I joined another club and trained at both.

[Matrix]

This seems to be only applicable to TMA that are not "practical oriented", it doesn't seem to be an issue with sport combat arts for example.I'm looking at it from a different POV. Most of us have limited time to train, so mixing and matching directions from multiple coaches/sifus can be more harmful then helpful. At the very least you need to have one "main" approach and you can certainly add some attributes from other systems, but I think you need a primary methodology. I train at one school, with one sifu, but I have a coach who adds a ton of value to what I'm doing.

I think this would be true if I were training my golf game, football, squash or other sports. Maybe you're correct and it's a TMA thing. I look at some of the stuff that is put on Youtube and have some difficulty correlating it to what I'm doing. Of course there's some good stuff out there as well, but it's hit-and-miss for something that's supposed to be the same art. Or maybe it's just me who has the problem. Stranger things have happened.

Peace,
Bill

[Matrix]

I don't see any conflict in training at two Wing Chun clubs as long as the teachers are amenable to the idea. You should be intelligent enough to recognise the differences and make the necessary adjustments depending on which class you are in. I don't see it as a question of intellegence per se. When we train we are trying to develop skills and attributes. Switching between two or more approaches seems somewhat counter productive unless they are truely complementary and not at odds with each other. I'm willing to bet one place is better than the other, so why would I compromise myself by training in an inferior way? Making adjustments depending on which class you're in may be counter-productive.

In any case, people are free to do as they wish. I just don't think more training is always better training. More instruction is not always better instruction.

Bill

[UKBBC]

Perhaps the WC is really good at one place, but there is a phenomenally smokin' hot single chick at the other?

I would totally buy that :D

[sanjuro_ronin]

I'm looking at it from a different POV. Most of us have limited time to train, so mixing and matching directions from multiple coaches/sifus can be more harmful then helpful. At the very least you need to have one "main" approach and you can certainly add some attributes from other systems, but I think you need a primary methodology. I train at one school, with one sifu, but I have a coach who adds a ton of value to what I'm doing.

I think this would be true if I were training my golf game, football, squash or other sports. Maybe you're correct and it's a TMA thing. I look at some of the stuff that is put on Youtube and have some difficulty correlating it to what I'm doing. Of course there's some good stuff out there as well, but it's hit-and-miss for something that's supposed to be the same art. Or maybe it's just me who has the problem. Stranger things have happened.

Peace,
Bill

I totally agree with you, a core system is an absolute must.
Fact that the best MMA fighters all have a solid core system speaks volumes.

[MapoTofu]

Duck,

I wanted my Si-Fu's perspective on this and he said unless you're living in the past in China, you don't have to follow those rules. Si-Fu would normally only teach disciples, and only a few in his or her lifetime. The relationship between SiFu and disciple is very strong and close because the Si-Fu chooses the right persons to preserve the art. This is not a monetary based relationship.

Today, Martial Arts is a business and both sides should fully appreciate that. ANYONE can open a school and proclaim themselves "Si-Fu". Fear of litigation deters challenges and contributes to them staying in business. Of course, there are other tricks they employ, but if your eyes are open and you properly focus on choosing a proper school and environment, you will see through the BS. He told me to question everything and don't accept anything without testing it out myself. He encouraged me to go visit other schools, other disciplines and if I find something better suited for me, I should go for it. No hard feelings. I asked what he would do if his disciples went to learn at another school and he said, there's always a possibility of a better Si-Fu teaching and that's why he's always encouraged them to go out and meet other martial artists.


Hi, I want to know your opinion on someone training at more than one wing chun school at the same time. If you are that student would you feel disrespectful towards your sifu. If you are the sifu would you be upset that your student has another sifu. Of-course each case may be different depending on the sifu/student. The sifu might be very happy that the student is keen on the art etc etc.
Just want to hear your thoughts?


In the past, especially in chinese tradition you can only have one sifu. If you have another sifu, it must be granted by the original sifu first otherwise you'd probably get kicked out.

Duck