Wall Bag Set

[Drake]

It was written that one must perform the wall bag set five times a day for several years. Is this a universal rule throughout CLF or does the wall bag set not even exist for some of you?

Additionally, it is also said that the wall bag set is not a traditional set. What is meant by this?

[ginosifu]

I found this one from S America?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pYUikEmEkls


Although the one I was taught is a little different, but basically the same. The person who taught me said it was NOT a traditional set.

Ginosifu

[Dragkin]

The Wall Bag set passed in Grandmaster DFW's lineage is not a traditional set, so it was created by Grandmaster. He designed it, I believe, to help strengthen the fists and to help understand how the strikes come out with full power. The Wall Bag is the kind of training you can do solo, without a partner, but isn't hardcore to the point where you are beating a wooden dummy before your body is naturally developed (though, I think we all still do :) ). If you do this set 5 times every day for the first few years of your training then you hands will be well conditioned.

[hskwarrior]

the big problem is that too many people worry if a form is traditional or not as if it would make the form any more effective being that its traditional.

We all make up forms that eventually get passed down then become traditional over time. everything evolves or remains stagnant.

Personally, i could care less if a set is traditional, as long as it is derived from CLF and not from some other style, then in my opinion it is still CLF. just modern CLF.

The wall bag form is a great form to have. regardless of traditional or modern birth.

[ginosifu]

Ditto what hskwarrior said

Ginosifu

[Laukarbo]

as Sifu Frank pointed aou it doesnt matter if its not traditional as long its effective... we also have a form on a heavy punching bag..the techniques are not new they are all from the forms..so now u do the techniques on a heavy,moving object so u have to follow,adapt ur footwork its a good excercise..its actually the first form u learn in my school...

[Drake]

Actually, isn't CLF designed on the very premise of evolving and improving?

[hskwarrior]

we should all hope so brother drake. we should all hope so.

unfortunately, there are those who try to place themselves at the top of the hierarchy by claiming to have the most traditional forms.

but in my opinion, any existing form that either Jeung Hung Sing or Chan Heung created themselves wasn't originally a traditional form. It was based off of things they learned.

We all practice forms not created by our founders, but our direct lineages. Nothing wrong with that.

Lets say you have one wall bag form, and this has inspired more techniques and methods that wasn't in the form you learned. Because it wasn't handed down by the founders, should you toss in the garbage?

HELL NO, to answer that nicely. you put together another wall bag form. as long as all the techniques are derived from the Choy Lee Fut style, than anything you put together is CLF, just not traditional, but MODERN CLF. JUST KEEP IT CHOY LEE FUT!!!!! (but you have to be CLF to do so)

[metsubushi]

Traditionally nontraditional. I like that.

[Shaolindynasty]

Traditionally nontraditional

I wrote an article in kungfu taichi magazine called "traditional yet progressive" That focuses on the traditionally progressive approach to the choy lay fut method. The link to the article here http://www.hungsingchoylayfut.com/desktop_007.htm

[sihing]

I found this one from S America?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pYUikEmEkls


Although the one I was taught is a little different, but basically the same. The person who taught me said it was NOT a traditional set.

Ginosifu

Boy, you know something is wrong when you start bowing to a sand bag, lol. Was that guy trying to gain power in his punches or learning how to dance?

[banditshaw]

I wrote an article in kungfu taichi magazine called "traditional yet progressive" That focuses on the traditionally progressive approach to the choy lay fut method. The link to the article here http://www.hungsingchoylayfut.com/desktop_007.htm

I enjoyed that article. I am almost finished with The Sup Gee Kau Da set and some of the things you mentioned I can relate to.

[Drake]

we should all hope so brother drake. we should all hope so.

unfortunately, there are those who try to place themselves at the top of the hierarchy by claiming to have the most traditional forms.

but in my opinion, any existing form that either Jeung Hung Sing or Chan Heung created themselves wasn't originally a traditional form. It was based off of things they learned.

We all practice forms not created by our founders, but our direct lineages. Nothing wrong with that.

Lets say you have one wall bag form, and this has inspired more techniques and methods that wasn't in the form you learned. Because it wasn't handed down by the founders, should you toss in the garbage?

HELL NO, to answer that nicely. you put together another wall bag form. as long as all the techniques are derived from the Choy Lee Fut style, than anything you put together is CLF, just not traditional, but MODERN CLF. JUST KEEP IT CHOY LEE FUT!!!!! (but you have to be CLF to do so)


The only thing I'd add is to show it to other CLF folks, especially seniors, before going off and naming it something like " Sifu Frank's really kickass version of the wall bag set, only with mad fu jau action and less silly yum tsops" and trying to put it into a cirriculum.

[hskwarrior]

my wall bag form is called: theincrediblebetterthanedibleshmoovaseggs wall bag form.

traditional or not, its top notch.:p

[sanjuro_ronin]

What's this about banging people's bags against walls ?

[hskwarrior]

choy lee fut people are suckers for pain. banging our bags against walls. go figure.

[fawlung]

Just for the sake of discussion....

I'm all for progression and keeping CLF, CLF regardless of the form or practice being done, but I couldn't help but think while watching the wall bag set if it was really necessary? The Sa Bou Jong achieves roughly the same goal and even provides a moving target plus a target that you can use angles of attack on.

Even with the Ching Jong the person training should be smart enough not to kill themselves but gradually progress in the strength of their attacks as the body allows.

[lianweizhi]

Wow, I haven't posted in a loooong time!

It's fun to just read the forums though.

Anyhow, in response to fawlung, I think the easiest way to respond to this is not everyone has a sa bau jong or a ching jong...

I never learned either of these forms (although I would like to have) when I lived near my school and I understand that the actual dummies themselves are pretty expensive and hard to get these days anyway unless you buy the wood and build them yourself.

On the otherhand, finding two sandbags and pinning them to a wall is fairly easy and quite economical! And, as you said, you have pretty similar gains to the sa bau jong...

[banditshaw]

What's this about banging people's bags against walls ?

This video comes to mind. LOL @ 1:50 mark

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph8kGPXOoUw

[CLFNole]

The sau bau jong is nothing more than a hanging bag so that would also be pretty easy for someone to use. I agree about the ching jong, mine cost me about $700 or so if I remember correctly.

Whatever people have to do to train traditional or modern it really doesn't matter as long as it works for you. Besides what is modern now will be considered traditional in another decade or so anyhow. Modern is fine as long as it doesn't compromise the system itself. All things must grow but if you add nuclear waste to something it might grow in ways it was not intended.

[lianweizhi]

The sau bau jong is nothing more than a hanging bag so that would also be pretty easy for someone to use. I agree about the ching jong, mine cost me about $700 or so if I remember correctly.

Whatever people have to do to train traditional or modern it really doesn't matter as long as it works for you. Besides what is modern now will be considered traditional in another decade or so anyhow. Modern is fine as long as it doesn't compromise the system itself. All things must grow but if you add nuclear waste to something it might grow in ways it was not intended.

Hi Sisuk!

Actually, $700 doesn't sound all that bad... must be the BIG BUCKS I get as an engineer these days... I wish...

I suspected the sau bau jong was a hanging bag... I never saw anyone at our school practice it, yet we had several hanging bags... do you know it?

[metsubushi]

I wrote an article in kungfu taichi magazine called "traditional yet progressive" That focuses on the traditionally progressive approach to the choy lay fut method. The link to the article here http://www.hungsingchoylayfut.com/desktop_007.htm

Thanks for the link! It was a great read indeed.

[Eddie]

i like that wall bag set. it looks pretty cool. i can see how it can help you.

whats the harm in doing something like that?

Think I must make me some of those wall bags

[fawlung]

Might be interesting to place the wall bag on a medium size tree and put one in the front and one on each side...

[CLFNole]

You could also more or less do a "wall" bag set utilizing the side of the ching jong depending on how the ching jong is set up.

[hskwarrior]

the only thing that matters is having an open mind and finding a use for the wall bag.

I for one definately am for the practice of wall bag forms. hell in the past i would use the tree the same way. or even a wall period.

One must always see the potential in any type of training no matter how silly it is.

The actually have some nice modern type wall bags at brendan lai's supply store here in sf.

[hskwarrior]

fawlung, that is what i do with my students. hang the wall bag from a tree, and if you want to use the whole tree, place a few around the tree. it would even help your bagua type of stepping.