Yip Man's Newphew

[taiwan8me]

I have just started studying Wing Chun here in Taiwan with Yip Man's newphew, Lo Man Kam. I have been reading a lot of these threads and no one seems to mention him. I am curious as to why or why not.

Here are some FACTS that I have learned so far.

-What I know so far is that Lo Man Kam is one of the first 3 students of Yip man and the only one living now.
-He started training 10 years before Yip man's sons
-He was an assistant instructor under Yip man and also taught Bruce Lee when he came to Yip man in the mid 1950s.
-He has been training various governemt military forces around the world.
-He has not stopped training since he was sent to Taiwan by Yip man to continue Wing Chun in Taiwan.

Is this LIVING MASTER of Wing Chun not known outside of asia?

[couch]

I have just started studying Wing Chun here in Taiwan with Yip Man's newphew, Lo Man Kam. I have been reading a lot of these threads and no one seems to mention him. I am curious as to why or why not.

Here are some FACTS that I have learned so far.

-What I know so far is that Lo Man Kam is one of the first 3 students of Yip man and the only one living now.
-He started training 10 years before Yip man's sons
-He was an assistant instructor under Yip man and also taught Bruce Lee when he came to Yip man in the mid 1950s.
-He has been training various governemt military forces around the world.
-He has not stopped training since he was sent to Taiwan by Yip man to continue Wing Chun in Taiwan.

Is this LIVING MASTER of Wing Chun not known outside of asia?

He is well known in Wing Chun circles. Not everyone from every lineage posts, but we have quite the spread:
Gu Lao
Moy Yat
Leung Ting
Emin Bozetepe
Wong Shun Leung
William Cheung
Garrett Gee
Augustine Fong
Etc...

(If I've missed anyone - SORRY!!!)

So, welcome to the forum. The more the merrier (not always the case, but it IS wishful thinking with all the politics!) Contribute what you can as I can see that you have a lot of time and effort dedicated to your family's Wing Chun!

All the best,
Kenton Sefcik

[KPM]

I know of Lo Man Kam and have a lot of respect for him. His son Gordon was living here in the US for awhile. Don't know if he still is or not. But like Kenton said, probably the only reason he isn't mentioned more is that his students aren't members of this forum. Please feel free to share some specifics from the Lo Man Kam lineage with us! I'd love to hear more from Duncan Leung students as well. But we can't twist their arms and make them post on our humble little forum! :)

[MapoTofu]

Not taking away from Lo Man Kam's achievements but I read that Leung Sheung, Lok Yiu and Chu Shong-Tin were the first three HK students to join Si-Fu Yip Man from his time at the Ancestor's temple.

Wiki says that Chu Shong-Tin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chu_Shong-Tin) is still with us and hopefully for many many more years.

Cheers,
Chris


I have just started studying Wing Chun here in Taiwan with Yip Man's newphew, Lo Man Kam. I have been reading a lot of these threads and no one seems to mention him. I am curious as to why or why not.

Here are some FACTS that I have learned so far.

-What I know so far is that Lo Man Kam is one of the first 3 students of Yip man and the only one living now.
-He started training 10 years before Yip man's sons
-He was an assistant instructor under Yip man and also taught Bruce Lee when he came to Yip man in the mid 1950s.
-He has been training various governemt military forces around the world.
-He has not stopped training since he was sent to Taiwan by Yip man to continue Wing Chun in Taiwan.

Is this LIVING MASTER of Wing Chun not known outside of asia?

[Buddha_Fist]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAQzfA1gmxQ

A video says more than a 1000 words.

[bakxierboxer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAQzfA1gmxQ

A video says more than a 1000 words.

... and it all gets said when the man steps in at 15-20 seconds.

[taiwan8me]

Sorry about the mistake everyone. I have not personally talked to Shr Fu Lo about who were the first students of Yip man, ( He speaks English, but I don't feel it is really appropriate for me to ask as I am still new to his school. )

About my source of the lineage information, I later did some checking and I found a site that seems pretty encompassing with its coverage and it confirms what you said about the first few students. I will make sure I do some more cross ref. to make sure I get my "FACTS" straight! lol :)

Here is the site
http://www.wingchunpedia.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=WCP.Lineages

Cheers, and thank you for the welcome!!

WingChun4ver!!

[reneritchie]

Hey there and welcome!

Don't let it worry you. Everyone loves their sifu and loves to see their sifu acknowledged and loved by others. Only natural. And everyone thinks their sifu is the bee's knees, Yip Man's nephew or son or first or last or super special, or Sum Nung's son or uncle or teacher's son, or best technician or fighter or whatever, or inside the Fung family, or inheritor of the Cho legacy, and it goes on and on.

And hey, maybe there's a little ancient man in Chinatown repairing bikes who never says a word but was the last student of 400 year old Ng Mui?

The internet is the biggest sea there is, and even the largest blue whale has plenty of room to swim around.

Best to just read, share, exchange, learn, relax, and ride them waves.

[MapoTofu]

Welcome, and don't take internet words too seriously. The important thing is your training and willingness to keep an open mind. Question, learn, apply/experiment, then question again. What you share is up to you.

Wing Chun forever. yes.


Sorry about the mistake everyone. I have not personally talked to Shr Fu Lo about who were the first students of Yip man, ( He speaks English, but I don't feel it is really appropriate for me to ask as I am still new to his school. )

About my source of the lineage information, I later did some checking and I found a site that seems pretty encompassing with its coverage and it confirms what you said about the first few students. I will make sure I do some more cross ref. to make sure I get my "FACTS" straight! lol :)

Here is the site
http://www.wingchunpedia.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=WCP.Lineages

Cheers, and thank you for the welcome!!

WingChun4ver!!

[rindge]

... and it all gets said when the man steps in at 15-20 seconds.

Buddha and Bakxie - what are you thoughts on the video? The link was posted and you guys really did not say much, thus one could assume your thoughts are negative. Overall what are your thoughts? Not trying to stir up anything as much as get your opinions? My WC is mediocre at best, but the video did not strike me as being negative. Also, I was not blown away by it, but the folks seem to be training hard and seem to be doing well - based on my observations.

[Buddha_Fist]

Buddha and Bakxie - what are you thoughts on the video? The link was posted and you guys really did not say much, thus one could assume your thoughts are negative.

You can assume whatever floats your boat.

Fact is that a video showing somebody in action DOES mean more than 1000 words - which may be twisting reality.

[Ernie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAQzfA1gmxQ

A video says more than a 1000 words.

no need for 1000 when 2 will suffice

[[[[ Chasing Hands ]]]]]]:cool:

[bakxierboxer]

Buddha and Bakxie - what are you thoughts on the video? The link was posted and you guys really did not say much....

There wasn't any need to say more.
OTOH, it's entirely possible to use up several thousand words (or more) and still not "say much".
(I know, because I used to be "tech writer", with a "major dabble" in writing "Executive Summaries")


... thus one could assume your thoughts are negative.

Not always a good assumption.


Overall what are your thoughts?

Overall?
That's an easy one.... it was a video. :D


Not trying to stir up anything as much as get your opinions? My WC is mediocre at best, but the video did not strike me as being negative.

My comment was NOT "negative".
The video was presented as "saying more than a thousand words".... my response was meant to indicate that was fulfilled by the few seconds I indicated.

My own WC is nonexistent.
OTOH, I have trained long enough to recognize good "kung fu"/"sau"/"skills" when I see them.


Also, I was not blown away by it, but the folks seem to be training hard and seem to be doing well - based on my observations.

The "production values" weren't all that great, but the video did well enough to show the training AND what he cared to show of his own skills.... which he did pretty much "right off the bat".... and then proceeded to "lay back".

Some masters will make a "big production" out of a demo, slowly building up to "the big finish".
Others will simply show what they want you to see "right off", and then let you "stick that in your pipe and smoke it".

[bakxierboxer]

no need for 1000 when 2 will suffice

[[[[ Chasing Hands ]]]]]]:cool:

Students tend to "do that"... it IS a "learning process" and you usually have to "learn to walk" before doing anything "more ambitious".

OTOH :cool:, commenting that a group of "beginners" is [[[[Chasing Hands ]]]]" is not a commentary on the single "hand" shown by the teacher.

[monji112000]

I know of Lo Man Kam and have a lot of respect for him. His son Gordon was living here in the US for awhile. Don't know if he still is or not. But like Kenton said, probably the only reason he isn't mentioned more is that his students aren't members of this forum. Please feel free to share some specifics from the Lo Man Kam lineage with us! I'd love to hear more from Duncan Leung students as well. But we can't twist their arms and make them post on our humble little forum! :)

I don't know how long I'v been a member. I don't like to talk about my Sifu or his father too much. I don't even talk about my Sifu's other sifu. Their ability should do all the talking, not me. If you are near any of Sifu Duncan's students or Sifu Lo Man's students I'm sure you can judge them how you want. I have never trained with Lo Man personally only his son. I'm 100% confident that his son is a good representation of his father. Nobody has really any students that are amature or pro fighters so if your looking for that... :(

I'm sure you can find some sparring clips still on Sifu Duncan's old website of Lo Man's son. Why does it matter? unless you live near them .. if you do just visit their schools. Ask for proof if you want. I did.


Students tend to "do that"... it IS a "learning process" and you usually have to "learn to walk" before doing anything "more ambitious".

OTOH :cool:, commenting that a group of "beginners" is [[[[Chasing Hands ]]]]" is not a commentary on the single "hand" shown by the teacher.
I used to think chasing hands were the best solution and worked fine alone. Lets just say I wised up to reality.

[Liddel]

Here in New Zealand we have a student of Sifu Lo. Years ago i visited his school to 'touch hands'. While i wouldnt say IMHO that his VT is great - he is a good fighter. This is due in large to his skills from other arts like Judo and TKD being a native of Taiwan.
He frustrated me as a young VT man at the time, more muscle than great skill... i took away some valuable experiences though which emphasised what i needed to work on. ;)

I have seen Sifu Lo on video only, my sifu knew him back in the 50's - he wasnt one of the original 3 HK students, far from it.... whatever thats worth :rolleyes:

DREW

[Phil Redmond]

. . . . . Nobody has really any students that are amature or pro fighters so if your looking for that... :( . . . . There are some WC schools with amateur and pro fighters.

[monji112000]

There are some WC schools with amateur and pro fighters.
really who? I know of a few guys going to thiland and HK. I also know of a some MMA fights. I didn't know of anyone as an amateur and of course pro fighting record.

I was only talking about Duncan/and Lo Man's long time students and disciples.

[Phil Redmond]

really who? I know of a few guys going to thiland and HK. I also know of a some MMA fights. I didn't know of anyone as an amateur and of course pro fighting record.

I was only talking about Duncan/and Lo Man's long time students and disciples.
My bad, I thought you meant WC in general. We have some golden glove boxers and one pro at our NJ school.

[monji112000]

Here in New Zealand we have a student of Sifu Lo. Years ago i visited his school to 'touch hands'. While i wouldnt say IMHO that his VT is great - he is a good fighter. This is due in large to his skills from other arts like Judo and TKD being a native of Taiwan.
He frustrated me as a young VT man at the time, more muscle than great skill... i took away some valuable experiences though which emphasised what i needed to work on. ;)

I have seen Sifu Lo on video only, my sifu knew him back in the 50's - he wasnt one of the original 3 HK students, far from it.... whatever thats worth :rolleyes:

DREW
You do know that Lo Man trained with Ip Man in China before he moved to HK? Lo Man has been adapting WC for his purposes. He has had a military career, and served in the Taiwan police. He trained the swat team, and I believe he is still involved with them. He is very good at Chin na, probably one of the few people I have experienced that can pull it off. (his son) I have sparred with a couple of his senior students. I have chi sao ed with a few of his senior students also. None of the ones who live in Taiwan. In respect to the aspects he focuses on I believe he is very good.

Who really cares who was the original 3 students? what does it matter who was first? Everyone has their abilities and a few actually meet them.

[LoneTiger108]

Well, welcome to the madness taiwan8me! You're not the only person who feels that your Sifu or lineage is under represented online. All you need to do is concentrate on sharing and having an open mind, coz you will need it! :D

The first thing I noticed from the sites featuring Lo Sifu is that he definately turns his knife against his forearms!!

http://lomankamwingchun.blogharbor.com/blog/Seminar/_archives/2005/6/17/949849.html

Thank the heavens!!! I thought my Sifu was the only one at times, as this is frowned upon by most especially in the 'practical circles'.

Although I have heard much of Lo Sifu, I hope you will actually post some insights yourself, and perhaps even share your name...

[Liddel]

Monji ive always liked you POV's put foward here on this forum, always open minded....that said heres my take....


You do know that Lo Man trained with Ip Man in China before he moved to HK?
Lo Man has been adapting WC for his purposes.

I did mention he wasnt one of the first 3 in HK !



He has had a military career, and served in the Taiwan police.

Isnt army service manditory in taiwan ? :rolleyes:
Some of my best friends are cops - regular and special ops. DPS, AOS, STG.
a few are dangerous men, others are better with guns :D
It doesnt prove much in the way of fighting ability. (not saying either way)



He trained the swat team, and I believe he is still involved with them.

This swat team -
http://www.wingchunvideo.info/Mind-Body-&%3B-Kickass-Moves--Taiwan-SWAT-Team__j8qMZqMJpyI.html



Who really cares who was the original 3 students?

Apparently the original poster :o



what does it matter who was first?

It doesnt bro. Some people just want to know for the sake of it i guess.

I still stand by my call. The student of Sifu Lo's i touched hands with didnt show great VT skill, but he was a good fighter

Heres some vids of thier style for your own analysis...
I touched hands with both asian guys (good people) in each Vid. One is the Sifu and the other is one of his head students....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85sGwakiDcQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptxaEdDTMcM

Thoughts ?

DREW

[Ernie]

thier style [/I] for your own analysis...
I touched hands with both asian guys (good people) in each Vid. One is the Sifu and the other is one of his head students....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85sGwakiDcQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptxaEdDTMcM

Thoughts ?

DREW



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_-U4uMICeU&feature=related same 5hit:cool:

[monji112000]

Monji ive always liked you POV's put foward here on this forum, always open minded....that said heres my take....
.....
DREW
I'm sure you are correct in your personal observations, I can't make a comment on that topic. I hope you understand.

With the clip.. yah I have seen it. I don't know how representative the clip is.. I'v seen some clips of many military training.. most make me cry. Its not the worst clip.


I believe sparring is being pushed more in the more “official” schools. I don't believe a common curriculum exists in the organization.

Military subject. I think its mandatory service. The full range of his experience and the aspects of his "application" are more than most TMA. If you are interested I would contact someone who can comment on the subject.

From personal experience the application of Lo Man's system is good. Some positive points and some negative points.(can't comment of them) This is the case with everything. I have again sparred with a few of the Sifu's from Europe. Granted they are no Tyson.. but I'm not either. Some of the sifu's are pretty tough. Common sense should go far. If you use common sense and see a sifu as not being effective then you should probably listen to your common sense. Everyone system, sifu should be looked at that way.

as a point if His son is a measure of his fathers skill, I would be willing to pay top dollar to train with Lo Man.

I can say anything about topics that don't hit home. I would never make a none-positive comment about the gym I train at in NY. I would never for any person i train with/under. The internet is a powerful tool.
that being said I'll dog everyone else!

[monji112000]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_-U4uMICeU&feature=related same 5hit:cool:
If a person does chi sao such ah manner, I would say thats not a productive method of training.:D

[Ernie]

If a person does chi sao such a manner, I would say thats not a productive method of training.:D


pretty much my feeling on 99% of the chi sau i see :cool:

accomplishing no more then the clip i posted ,,, arm flapping arm grabbing
followed by long write ups using all the catch phrases explaining how there using all things VT


Cr@p + Cr@p = Cr@p :rolleyes:

[monji112000]

pretty much my feeling on 99% of the chi sau i see :cool:

accomplishing no more then the clip i posted ,,, arm flapping arm grabbing
followed by long write ups using all the catch phrases explaining how there using all things VT


Cr@p + Cr@p = Cr@p :rolleyes:
but you could also make a larger statement about MA as a whole. I'm not saying all, ma or schools.. but allot of them.

[Ernie]

but you could also make a larger statement about MA as a whole. I'm not saying all, ma or schools.. but allot of them.

Agreed and ,,, I do ;)

but to fair i have seen nut cases in MT in Boxing and MMA ,,, the average guy still sucks and just talks about what other guys are doing as if it was his own accomplishments ,,


I always laugh to myself when i see guys bringing in Pro's to make there arguments ,,

I'm from the ,, if you can do it yourself then shut the Fu@k up and stop wasting air ,, train of thought :D

[sihing]

Agreed and ,,, I do ;)

but to fair i have seen nut cases in MT in Boxing and MMA ,,, the average guy still sucks and just talks about what other guys are doing as if it was his own accomplishments ,,


I always laugh to myself when i see guys bringing in Pro's to make there arguments ,,

I'm from the ,, if you can do it yourself then shut the Fu@k up and spot wasting air ,, train of thought :D

You mean there are people that suck as fighters that study MMA, Boxing and MT too:confused: You'd never know that, the way some compare the arts:eek:

Maybe, just maybe it has something to do with regards to the individuals needs and wants or motivation??? Things that make you go HMMMMM....;)

James

[monji112000]

You mean there are people that suck as fighters that study MMA, Boxing and MT too:confused: You'd never know that, the way some compare the arts:eek:

Maybe, just maybe it has something to do with regards to the individuals needs and wants or motivation??? Things that make you go HMMMMM....;)

James
I think the stats show that the guys who really dedicate themselves to MT are better fighters. They are also tough as nails.

[Liddel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_-U4uMICeU&feature=related same 5hit:cool:

Yep, on the same page E.

This is why i was trying to be fair, stating they didnt show great VT - but they could trade when i visited. Again sparring/fighting looked way different to thier training.

Its something ill never understand. Peeps want to be under the label of VT but dont really use it in fighting that much, if at all.

To clarify, i was just sharing my experience. My intention was not to say this is common of Lo Man Kam Kung Fu.


I think the stats show that the guys who really dedicate themselves to MT are better fighters. They are also tough as nails.

For the most part in my country sure, but there is that small percentage that are just wannabe's. A MT guy i sparred with who said he had 3 years training kicked me. I used Far querk from my CK to block and when he connected he folded over a little in pain... and im not that hard at all compared to most MT guys LOL.

DREW

[Buddha_Fist]

Heres some vids of thier style for your own analysis...
I touched hands with both asian guys (good people) in each Vid. One is the Sifu and the other is one of his head students....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85sGwakiDcQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptxaEdDTMcM

Thoughts ?

DREW

I would place each of these guys in a corner of my living room and use them for ventilation instead of my A/C... ;)

Come on...

[Nick Forrer]

You mean there are people that suck as fighters that study MMA, Boxing and MT too:confused: You'd never know that, the way some compare the arts:eek:

Maybe, just maybe it has something to do with regards to the individuals needs and wants or motivation??? Things that make you go HMMMMM....;)

James

I challenge anyone to train in this environment and not get good at fighting. Compare this to the average WC school.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6PNtUPO0RGs

[Phil Redmond]

Hi Nick, you are correct, but you can train WC for full contact. When I was trained by Yoel Judah I was studying WC. I simply transposed the horizontal fist to the vertical fist. I did my best to use two arms at the same time. I tried to stay within WC principles. I won my first amatuer fight against a guy who had turned pro but entered an amatuer competition using WC principles.

We train our guys to use WC principles in full contact as well. Here's a clip of the first day of training. It eventually got more intense. The guys were doing paks sao, lop da, bong lop, front kicks, knees, entries, takedowns, etc., thousands of times daily.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pyQH4M550M0

[sihing]

I challenge anyone to train in this environment and not get good at fighting. Compare this to the average WC school.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6PNtUPO0RGs

I totally agree Nick, you can't help but become a better fighter by training there, but why would I want to compare a gym that trains professional fighters with one that doesn't? Is that really fair when the intent behind both gyms may be different?

James

[taiwan8me]

I am learning fast about this forum, interesting place and the discussions provoke a lot of thought. As for Master Lo's training. Let me clarify a little bit about the military training in Taiwan.

Master Lo was and is directly involved in training the special forces in Taiwan as well as the SP forces in various countries such as the US and france.
He has been involved in the practical application of WC for most of his life and through trial and error has made great strides. Walking into house is just incredible, him and Master Yip Man, Navy Seals classes from the US so many accomplishments..
Master Lo never worried about making money, but about perfecting his art. I saw some of the videos posted and they don't do it justice.

As you all know, WC is only as good as the student who is applying it.

There are some students here in the school who are just incredible...

[taiwan8me]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAQzfA1gmxQ

A video says more than a 1000 words.

This video doesn't do him justice, the students in this video look like beginners and it might be a visiting group of students. I say this because we have a lot of visiting students from other country who train in the day time. The hard core local bunch, taiwanese and foreigners train at night on his roof top in 10C to 40C heat. I personally try to get in 12 hours of training per week.

Wingchun4ever lol, I love it!!!!

WC is only as good as the natural ability of the student lol

[monji112000]

This video doesn't do him justice, the students in this video look like beginners and it might be a visiting group of students. I say this because we have a lot of visiting students from other country who train in the day time. The hard core local bunch, taiwanese and foreigners train at night on his roof top in 10C to 40C heat. I personally try to get in 12 hours of training per week.

Wingchun4ever lol, I love it!!!!

WC is only as good as the natural ability of the student lol

Ofcourse it doesn't. Sifu Lo is a very good teacher and a amazing WC player. You can't judge much by clips on the internet. The only thing you use to judge personal experience and his fighting experience.

[RGVWingChun]

From what I understand, Lo Man Kam did not finish the system under Ip Man. That's what I have been told my close members of the Ip Family

[stonecrusher69]

From what I understand, Lo Man Kam did not finish the system under Ip Man. That's what I have been told my close members of the Ip Family

just my two cents but really who can say they have completed the system. What does that really mean. I've been doing WC for 25 years I'm still learning.Can you ever reach the top and know everything and do all.

[aelward]

I still stand by my call. The student of Sifu Lo's i touched hands with didnt show great VT skill, but he was a good fighter

Heres some vids of thier style for your own analysis...
I touched hands with both asian guys (good people) in each Vid. One is the Sifu and the other is one of his head students....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85sGwakiDcQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptxaEdDTMcM

Thoughts ?

DREW

That is Bruce Cheng. He is Sifu Lo's first student (well, Chien Yen in Japan says HE is the first, but we all called Bruce "Da-Shi-Xiong"). He had a background in Western boxing and judo before learning Wing Chun.

These clips demonstrate mostly speed; they are not particularly representative of what I experienced at Sifu Lo's school in the 1990s. That could come from several possibilities:

1. From what I've been told, Sifu Lo has changed the way he teaches since he started his first class in 1974.

2. There are a lot of individual differences among students in his school. There are some people who are fast, there are some people who go around defenses, some people who go through defenses.

3. Bruce might emphasize speed in his class.

Bruce would bring his NZ students to compete in Taiwan's Full-Contact San-Da tournaments. While there, they would come to Sifu's school to train, and a lot of them looked like the posted youtube clips. But Bruce was different-- he could overpower, out-pace, or out-control his chi sao partners, depending on his mood. He could effortlessly integrate joint locks and throws. From my subjective point of view (that is, the frame of reference which my Sifu taught us to look at Wing Chun, so their is obvious bias), he's one of the best Wing Chun people (both in technical finesse and practical application) I've seen out of the thousands of hands I've touched from a couple dozen Wing Chun lineages.

[aelward]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAQzfA1gmxQ

A video says more than a 1000 words.

While I'm certainly no authority on Sifu Lo Man Kam's interpretation of Wing Chun, I'd like to put my 2 cents in:

I've never seen this National Geographic segment... That's a pretty old video, I'm would hazard to guess from the mid-to-late 1980s from the age of Richard Doell (the bare-chested guy at 1:33)

From 1:02 to 1:20 are "pre-chi sao" drills-- just basic motions. It's not the way they would be executed in "free chi sao."

From 1:22 - 1:33, I would say that is pretty sloppy chi sao compared to what one would normally see class when I was training in the 1990s. But then, there were always some inner-class rivalries where one person would do anything to get a hit in.

1:33 is "guided chi sao," with Richard "feeding" the beginning student (from her level, I'd guess she's been learning it for 3-4 months) so they can practice fluid transitions in hopes that they won't look like the guys in 1:22-1:33 :P

1:49, the guys would probably have been doing it for a year or so.

At 2:29: This guy is senior. I actually never learned his name. The foreigners always called him "tea man" because he spent a lot of time in Sifu's condo beneath the school drinking tea.

[aelward]

Not taking away from Lo Man Kam's achievements but I read that Leung Sheung, Lok Yiu and Chu Shong-Tin were the first three HK students to join Si-Fu Yip Man from his time at the Ancestor's temple.

Wiki says that Chu Shong-Tin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chu_Shong-Tin) is still with us and hopefully for many many more years.

Cheers,
Chris

While I personally don't really think it matters WHO learned first or third or twenty-third, I'm pretty sure from talking to the HK elders that Sifu Lo started about the same time as Yip Bo-Ching, which would have been around 1950 and before Chu Shong-Tin.

Obviously, Sifu Chu is much more well-known, being in the supposed "top four" with Leung Sheung, Lok Yiu, and Wong Shun Leung. Since Sifu Wong didn't start until a few years later, I've always assumed the "top four" was based on skill and not start date. I say "top four" because there are so many articles out there with people saying they were Yip Man's top six-- always listing those four, but never mentioning who #5 would be :P

I don't know how true this story is (I heard it third-hand through Sifu John Divirgilo) that prior to Sifu Lo joining GM Yip Man's class, he called his style "Foshan Fist" because "Wing Chun" sounded too effeminate. But when Sifu Lo was looking for the class, he asked about it using the name "Wing Chun," since he knew of it from growing up in the Mulberry Gardens estate with GM Yip Man.

[aelward]

From what I understand, Lo Man Kam did not finish the system under Ip Man. That's what I have been told my close members of the Ip Family

Dude, this is at least the second time that you've mentioned this in a thread about Sifu Lo. Is it THAT important to you to spread hearsay?

There are rumors about most of Yip Man's students; but spreading them doesn't make us better Wing Chun practitioners, does it?

[RGVWingChun]

what I meant by "complete the system" was that they learned all the way up to the knives with Ip Man. To my understanding, Wong Ki Man, Ip Ching, Wong Shong Leung and one other fellow were the only one to have completed the system all the way to the knives with Ip Man. Many of the other "originals" and the "firsts" didn't finish

[stonecrusher69]

what I meant by "complete the system" was that they learned all the way up to the knives with Ip Man. To my understanding, Wong Ki Man, Ip Ching, Wong Shong Leung and one other fellow were the only one to have completed the system all the way to the knives with Ip Man. Many of the other "originals" and the "firsts" didn't finish

If you look at it that way but really even if you have completed all the forms or what ever that really does not mean anything.It's quality that counts not how much stuff you know.

[monji112000]

what I meant by "complete the system" was that they learned all the way up to the knives with Ip Man. To my understanding, Wong Ki Man, Ip Ching, Wong Shong Leung and one other fellow were the only one to have completed the system all the way to the knives with Ip Man. Many of the other "originals" and the "firsts" didn't finish
:rolleyes:
Everyone has a story about who learned how much and who didn't. I'm sure if we checked each Sifu under each lineage we could find that everyone thinks "the other guy" didn't learn the whole system or "he added things he calls secret techniques".

Nobody has any proof on who learned what, or when or how. Its all word of mouth, and just like the telephone game it changes from one person to another. Heck Bruce Lee didn't even learn half the "style" and he is crowned the messiah of Martial Arts.
So who are we really kidding here? I don't hold much truth to what allot of people say, especially people who tend to profit from it. If you don't like Lo Man's Kung Fu then I'm sure he isn't offended by it. Ever notice how when people name lineage it always comes out that their school/style/lineage/ect.. benefits?

[Phil Redmond]

what I meant by "complete the system" was that they learned all the way up to the knives with Ip Man. To my understanding, Wong Ki Man, Ip Ching, Wong Shong Leung and one other fellow were the only one to have completed the system all the way to the knives with Ip Man. Many of the other "originals" and the "firsts" didn't finish
The operative words in your post are, "To my understanding, . . .".
I'm curious to know if the head of your lineage completed the whole system?
(WC isn't a "Pai" (system). It's a Kuen. There is a different between a Pai, Do, and Kuen in Chinese kung fu).

[Phil Redmond]

:rolleyes:
Everyone has a story about who learned how much and who didn't. I'm sure if we checked each Sifu under each lineage we could find that everyone thinks "the other guy" didn't learn the whole system or "he added things he calls secret techniques".

Nobody has any proof on who learned what, or when or how. Its all word of mouth, and just like the telephone game it changes from one person to another. Heck Bruce Lee didn't even learn half the "style" and he is crowned the messiah of Martial Arts.
So who are we really kidding here? I don't hold much truth to what allot of people say, especially people who tend to profit from it. If you don't like Lo Man's Kung Fu then I'm sure he isn't offended by it. Ever notice how when people name lineage it always comes out that their school/style/lineage/ect.. benefits?
Exactly, everyone is protecting their respective rice bowls. ;)

[Whiplash]

Here in New Zealand we have a student of Sifu Lo. Years ago i visited his school to 'touch hands'. While i wouldnt say IMHO that his VT is great - he is a good fighter. This is due in large to his skills from other arts like Judo and TKD being a native of Taiwan.
He frustrated me as a young VT man at the time, more muscle than great skill... i took away some valuable experiences though which emphasised what i needed to work on. ;)


Always welcome to come back and say hi :p

[sanjuro_ronin]

The operative words in your post are, "To my understanding, . . .".
I'm curious to know if the head of your lineage completed the whole system?
(WC isn't a "Pai" (system). It's a Kuen. There is a different between a Pai, Do, and Kuen in Chinese kung fu).

Can you expanded on that?

[taiwan8me]

Hi everyone, sorry to have been out of the thread for a while, just went through a really weird winter over here in Taiwan, I think it rained for about 30 days lol, anyways, no one needs to hear about the weather.

I went to class on Wedneday night, and Shifu Lo Man gave me a magazine fresh from Hong Kong. In this magazine, there was a 5 page write up on Shrfu. You would not believe the history of this man. I will be posting sections of it next week, unfortunately, I left it at work today so I cant add anything significant now except to say that Shrfu travelled with his uncle, Yip Man, as he went from China to Hong Kong and practically grew up with him, training continually until, his uncle insisted he go to Taiwan to spread Wing Chun. For the next 25 years he did military and police training. In 1974, he opened up his style to foreigners in Taiwan.

As for not finishing the style, thats funny, as the style only consists of 3 empty hand forms, wooden man, long staff and knives. The technical moves can be mimiced within 3 years, but the actual applications and comprehension (AKA mastering lol) is a life time event lol.

Wingchun4ever