Suen Sifu on Bak Hsing CLF

[Satori Science]

Hey all,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-0nxtOBpqA

Here is a short interview with my Sifu, Master Henry Suen Wai on his thoughts, ideas and experiences after 42 years in our style. In my mind he is one of the stellar martial artists who have attained the higheset levels of their art. As well he has lead all of his disciples down the right path because of his attitude and openness as well as his teaching abilities. I owe my Sifu everything I have & to quote my freind Sharif Bey, "all my successes belong to my Sifu, only the mistakes are mine"

I'm on leg one of my "world travels" stay tuned to my youtube as there is a wealth of new video on the way.:D

[Eddie]

I don’t understand one thing. Are you saying Side way fighting stance is unique to Bak Sing CLF or to CLF in general. I don’t do bak sing (Im LKH CLF), but I do the same. The opening sequence of Ng Long Choy and Che Kuen teaches us to fight side ways.

[metsubushi]

That was great. Thanks for that!

[diego]

I don’t understand one thing. Are you saying Side way fighting stance is unique to Bak Sing CLF or to CLF in general. I don’t do bak sing (Im LKH CLF), but I do the same. The opening sequence of Ng Long Choy and Che Kuen teaches us to fight side ways.

I'm guessing how they lean in that stance...the hop ga punches I do use full shoulder but we don't have their lean back horse leopard fist to ribs.:)

Good chat Satori, thanks for sharing.

James

[Satori Science]

I don’t understand one thing. Are you saying Side way fighting stance is unique to Bak Sing CLF or to CLF in general. I don’t do bak sing (Im LKH CLF), but I do the same. The opening sequence of Ng Long Choy and Che Kuen teaches us to fight side ways.

I guess I am saying that it is how we fight, if it is also how you fight then no I guess it isn't unique then.....
Post a video up illustrating your point so I can respond to exactly what you mean.

Diego glad you enjoyed it man :D
I am in Vancouver right now and pretty free until Thursday, PM me with your contact # if you want to hook up & have time this week. Or you could come chill with my crew at Tiger Balms on Saturday if your tied up this week?

Cheers,

[Eddie]

no i wasnt being nasty or anyting, its just something Ive read on here before, and now heard it on the video.

I know apparently thats a tam sam thing, he faught side ways, but all the while i was thinking this was a CLF thing.

In the video your sifu said this is unique to our style, i was asking if he meant unique to your BS or to your CLF.

;)

[Satori Science]

no i wasnt being nasty or anyting, its just something Ive read on here before, and now heard it on the video.

I know apparently thats a tam sam thing, he faught side ways, but all the while i was thinking this was a CLF thing.

In the video your sifu said this is unique to our style, i was asking if he meant unique to your BS or to your CLF.

;)

Well, every style uses sideways stances when they do a side punch or chop in their forms, but do they extend sideways, "the way that we do, when and how we do" when they fight. I have never seen others do this in the way we do, I sparred a Lee Koon Hung man yesterday. Real nice fellow, but I saw no signs of what I am talking about in his movements, i did however see "similar" movements in his forms. As I said, the easiest thing, if your actaully curious is to simply post something up, so I can see what you mean. On public or private is fine,

cheers,

[CLFNole]

Who was this LKH man you sparred with? Just curious if I know him.

[Ben Gash]

Well, every style uses sideways stances when they do a side punch or chop in their forms, but do they extend sideways, "the way that we do, when and how we do" when they fight.


Yes. Having seen both sides of the fence I can say that the difference is largely stylistic. Tsop Chui is fully side on with all the energy extending out to the side, that's what makes it Tsop Chui. It's the same wether it's Hung Sing or Bak Sing.
What Bak Sing is very good at is explaining certain aspects of CLF fighting theory very clearly, and indeed when I teach San Shou I still use the Bak Sing model to teach certain skills.

[Eddie]

satori, my fighting style is more san shou with clf techniques thrown in. when i say this, i mean I use a basic side ways stance, while using CLF techniques in a 'free style' sort of way.

I've seen many san shou fighters who used the same side way stance, and i've seen Thaiboxing (and pekgwar) fighters in HK who also do that.

Another thing I liked on the video is that I saw your sifu talking about the techniques he did 'wrong' before he trained with lung chee (was it?). He said he used to side step away from the guy, and then learned how to step into the guy. I actually see exactly how this works, and like both ways, but I do agree with your sifu that the way of moving into the guy is probably better for fighting.

It seems to me you are getting a little aggressive in your replies to me. Just so you know, I wasn’t arguing against your sifu in any way, and I didn’t mean any harm in my posts. I simply asked something in the same way I would have asked if your sifu was in front of me. No foul intentions. Being civil and polite doesn’t cost much.

But again, I was honestly not trying to stir anything. Your sifu looks like a nice and well skilled CLF master. I respect people like that.

No need to post videos, this is a simple discussion. ;)

[Eddie]

What Bak Sing is very good at is explaining certain aspects of CLF fighting theory very clearly, and indeed when I teach San Shou I still use the Bak Sing model to teach certain skills.


I think I know what you mean

[hskwarrior]

Im my opinion, and this could be up to the individual, but we all use the side stance when it comes to fighting. That has always been the method of Professor Lau Bun's Hung Sing lineage. in fact, i am talking briefly about the side stance in a book on CLF i've been working on.

Not trying to stir up the pot, but at first after seeing so much Buk Sing stuff lately, i was shocked to see sooo much in them that we have been doing all along. but after that initial shock, i realized that we are really the same to a certain extent. so it all makes sense.

The side stance is very common amongst all three branches from i can tell. Chan Yong Fa breaks down the side stance and the 3 gates nicely on one of his web sites.

[Eddie]

yeah, that was exactly what i was saying. so perhaps Sifu Seun meant all CLF when he said our style.

[CLFNole]

Buk sing might have a tendency to lean in a bit more with their chop choy's than the other branches when it comes to the side stance but I think the side stance is very common to CLF in general. I know we use a lot of it.

[Vilmore]

interesting stuff!

he seems like a nice man and a great sifu.

[hskwarrior]

but Buk Sing has their right to claim the things they've developed. If no one else had developed it before, then they have the right to claim the first.

The Lien Wan Chop Choy is Tam Sam's development, now i see it in Chan Family material. As long as that gets acknowledged by the Chan, and give full credit to Tam Sam, or any school that adopts the Lien Wan into their curriculum, we all need to give Tam Sam full credit.

However, Chan Heung, and Jeung Hung Sing were equally as famous, and Jeung Yim was referred to as one of southern China's greatest fighters, and they deserve full credit for what they developed as well.

We should give ALL 3 masters full credit for what CLF has become today.

[Eddie]

well, opening sequence of ng lung choy uses side ways stance, and that was developed by chan heung wasnt it?

erm... if I look at most stances in the forms, we generally use a side stance in most techniques some way or another. Is it not so? ;)

[hskwarrior]

Yeah lean in a bit more than us, but we also lean in a bit. I think the key is knowing how and why you are doing what you're doing is important.

Some people train just for the look of the form, while others will train for the realistice aspects of fighting, adding in what they would do...overriding the blueprint of the form so to speak to attain the maximum delivery.

part of the key to leaning is not to uproot yourself while doing so.

[hskwarrior]

eddie my:

Cheung Kuen
and
Che Kuen

Both start out in a side stance. However, these were created by Jeung Hung Sing. our Che kuen could be an intelligent extension of Ng Lun Choy, but i don't know.

[Sung29]

Thanks for the post Satori - very insightful!

Eddie, it may be out of place for me to say, but I think what Suen Sifu was referring to may be that extra extension that is gained when striking with a side stance. I believe this is what Satori said in post #8. I used to learn a northern mantis style (it was over 20 years ago so I don't remember which specific style it was) but I do remember my Sifu at the time referring to the side stance as "closing the gates". So, as Satori mentioned, many styles probably use a side stance. Based on what I've learned watching all the Buck Sing/Bak Hsing videos I believe the emphasis is that extra extension (BSCLF people correct me if I'm wrong). Lacey Sifu (Vince) referred to it on one video (interview with Tat Wong?), and I believe on another video Kong Hing was correcting one of Lacey Sifu's (Dave) students where it appeared that the student was motioned to lean forward one or two inches with the Chop Choy.

Anyway, that's my two cents (from a non-CLF practitioner).
Regards,

[Vilmore]

I still see a difference between Buck Sing CLF and other CLF (or other MA for that mather) The way that a Buck Sing man turns a full 90° to fight, the way that the power really comes sideways, the way that a charp choi BOOM! comes in like a spear...
Its not just standing sideways in a form, its buck sing...
I cant explain it in words any better, look at the Dave Lacey video's for good examples. If you watch closely you'll see it feels different. And dont just watch the form, its less appearent in forms.

[Satori Science]

Eddie, it may be out of place for me to say, but I think what Suen Sifu was referring to may be that extra extension that is gained when striking with a side stance. I believe this is what Satori said in post #8. I used to learn a northern mantis style (it was over 20 years ago so I don't remember which specific style it was) but I do remember my Sifu at the time referring to the side stance as "closing the gates". So, as Satori mentioned, many styles probably use a side stance. Based on what I've learned watching all the Buck Sing/Bak Hsing videos I believe the emphasis is that extra extension (BSCLF people correct me if I'm wrong). Lacey Sifu (Vince) referred to it on one video (interview with Tat Wong?), and I believe on another video Kong Hing was correcting one of Lacey Sifu's (Dave) students where it appeared that the student was motioned to lean forward one or two inches with the Chop Choy.


Exactly, well said Sung

Perhaps listen a little closer to what my sifu says, we don't fight sideways at all (necessarily that is) we extend sideways to a full 180 degrees to strike at the moment of attack/impact to create extra reach and momentum. regardless of the direction or angle of our stance. yes we have side ways square horse chop as well, but again our is a little different. You can see exactly this in the video of Sifu Vince Lacey that Sung 29 referred to and again in the CLFBSG video 6 when Sifu Nick demonstrates his leen whan double right handed chop into a fully extended left chop, watch the way he turns to a full 180 degrees and his shoulders line up.

Eddie,
yo man, no worries. I am (for the most part) a very peacable dude, to be honest I even hope we get a chance to hang out some day, I love all kinds of CLF, & training with its practioners. I requested the vid, because a) with due respect I think your wrong and wanted to see what it is you meant. descriptions via the key board mean little to me &
b) I was sorta hoping you were right, if that way of moving was a part of your repertoire I would more than happy but pleasanlty surprised :D
Who knows, maybe we get to workout or compete sanda together some day. But unity and sameness are not the same thing, not sure why everyone is so fixated on trying to tell us we are exactly the same. We aren't as Sifu Nick pointed out directly on a thread several months back on behalf of his Sifu.

[chasincharpchui]

great vid satori

i love jin kuen

just a quick question

tarm sisukjo is suen sifu's sigung right?

then who did suen sifu learn off?

and i honestly always thought ur sifu was robert james lol
until this morning, i noticed ur tag haha

who is your sifu?=)

[Satori Science]

great vid satori

i love jin kuen

just a quick question

tarm sisukjo is suen sifu's sigung right?

then who did suen sifu learn off?

and i honestly always thought ur sifu was robert james lol
until this morning, i noticed ur tag haha

who is your sifu?=)

Appreciate the love, glad you liked it & much respect!

please excuse my poor cantonese but when you say Tam Sisukjo, you are referring to Tam Fei Pang right.

I am Suen Sifu's disciple,

My Sifu is Disihing of GM Lueng Lap Yau's kwoon,
he originally trained in HK until he was 18 with his first Sifu another student of Tam Sitigung, Bosco Yang who settled in San Fran (Lacey Sibak may have known him?)
He emigrated to Canada in 1969 and started training with my Sigung Raymond Lueng who was Tam Fei Pang's Disihing (there is a picture of Lacey Sibak and my Sigung sitting together in Calgary at Lun Jee's funeral banquet on his pantherfist website & I believe they are sitting with my Sifu's brother Raymond who he refers to on the video as a student of Tam Sing )

Hope to meet you in China or HK @ one of BSG Banquets this coming year

One.

[Steeeve]

Thank Robert

For the sharing

Suen Sifu is very good teacher and intelligent Men....Hope to see more from him....Giving demos and explainaition about the Bak Hsing Way...I really like this interview and learn a lot......

Bak Hsing CLF is not Hung sing CLF....same root but different method

Thank

Steeve

[Steeeve]

hey guys

Im not a CLF players....but side stance everybody used it ....Joe lewis was very good to used it....in the karate tournment....with side stance you have less opening target for the opponent.....


In fact from what I saw in video the buk sing used more the side stance and the extended arms for punch .....the side stance or side body posture is used for used the extended arms to have the reach ....hung sing used also the side stance but not for the same goal....so many forms in hung sing difficult to know how to remember all tht stuff...and be simple , effective and direct....dont misunderstood what I say here ....just my two cents

Does the Bak hsing (sing) have just three forms ....Sup jee ,kau da and ping kuen.....i mean the original GMTam Sam style.....?

Steeve

[Drake]

hey guys

Im not a CLF players....but side stance everybody used it ....Joe lewis was very good to used it....in the karate tournment....with side stance you have less opening target for the opponent.....


In fact from what I saw in video the buk sing used more the side stance and the extended arms for punch .....the side stance or side body posture is used for used the extended arms to have the reach ....hung sing used also the side stance but not for the same goal....so many forms in hung sing difficult to know how to remember all tht stuff...and be simple , effective and direct....dont misunderstood what I say here ....just my two cents

Does the Bak hsing (sing) have just three forms ....Sup jee ,kau da and ping kuen.....i mean the original GMTam Sam style.....?

Steeve

Steeeve,
I think the Buk Sing folks are trying to say that they understand that many people do sideways fighting, but that their lineage does it a certain way which makes it different and very effective as opposed to similar ways of doing this. I wouldn't say they are the only ones who fight sideways, but to accent earlier points, they are the only ones who do it the way they've explained.

Did I help or did I just cause more confusion?

[Eddie]

Its not like we all want to be the same, I was simply asking sonehting that Ive been wondering about for a long time. I do aggree that it seems that the BS guys lean into their strikes, but other than that, I thought the sideways thing was pretty universal. Eg, Id go to Chin lau, poon kiu and charp choy, pulling the guy into the punch.

but i agree, maybe i should make a video and post it.

this isnt a big deal anyways, and i wasnt trying to take ' hard work' away from anyone. it was merely a casual conversation on something i love doing.

[chasincharpchui]

Appreciate the love, glad you liked it & much respect!

please excuse my poor cantonese but when you say Tam Sisukjo, you are referring to Tam Fei Pang right.

I am Suen Sifu's disciple,

My Sifu is Disihing of GM Lueng Lap Yau's kwoon,
he originally trained in HK until he was 18 with his first Sifu another student of Tam Sitigung, Bosco Yang who settled in San Fran (Lacey Sibak may have known him?)
He emigrated to Canada in 1969 and started training with my Sigung Raymond Lueng who was Tam Fei Pang's Disihing (there is a picture of Lacey Sibak and my Sigung sitting together in Calgary at Lun Jee's funeral banquet on his pantherfist website & I believe they are sitting with my Sifu's brother Raymond who he refers to on the video as a student of Tam Sing )

Hope to meet you in China or HK @ one of BSG Banquets this coming year

One.

ok

so here is what my understanding of what that all rhat was said:

Tarm Sarm
|
Tarm Fei Pang
| |
Bosco Yang Raymond Leung
| |
Henry Suen
|
Robert James

is that correct?

[Eddie]

hey, robert james is also the PG guy right?
Ive heared some good things about him from sifu Chow. If thats the one I am thinking about.

[Satori Science]

ok

so here is what my understanding of what that all rhat was said:

Tarm Sarm
|
Tarm Fei Pang
| |
Bosco Yang Raymond Leung
| |
Henry Suen
|
Robert James

is that correct?

Yup thats correct, my Sifu also learned directly from Chan Woo Lueng, that is ware our northern forms come from as Lueng Sigung only taught Sil Lum 6.

[Satori Science]

this isnt a big deal anyways, and i wasnt trying to take ' hard work' away from anyone. it was merely a casual conversation on something i love doing.

Agreed,

there simply is a pattern I have seen for people via the interent to say that what we do is "exactly the same" as what they do(not accusing you of that as I know you it wasn't what you were doing, but I do insist on emphasizing the differences). When ever I have trainied in person with other CLF it has never seemed "exactly" the same to me or them, but it always seems like CLF.

I have several brothers who teach other styles, from Hung Ga to Praying Mantis, good gung fu is good gung fu, period. there are more similarities than differences between all the styles and often we get hung up on "shape" but there are also differences both in shape and in function. This is why there are different stlyes.

Peep this vid, I made it for my Sidi Gary, man is gonna be a mean Sifu some day. I can't take any credit for his kicking, that comes straight from my Sifu & his talent but I did put a lot of work in with him this year on his fighting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzGYnxxwlPU

[CLFNole]

Nobody does things exactly the same, heck we have differences within our own lineage. That is why I like kung fu so much.

[WinterPalm]

Agreed,

there simply is a pattern I have seen for people via the interent to say that what we do is "exactly the same" as what they do(not accusing you of that as I know you it wasn't what you were doing, but I do insist on emphasizing the differences). When ever I have trainied in person with other CLF it has never seemed "exactly" the same to me or them, but it always seems like CLF.

I have several brothers who teach other styles, from Hung Ga to Praying Mantis, good gung fu is good gung fu, period. there are more similarities than differences between all the styles and often we get hung up on "shape" but there are also differences both in shape and in function. This is why there are different stlyes.

Peep this vid, I made it for my Sidi Gary, man is gonna be a mean Sifu some day. I can't take any credit for his kicking, that comes straight from my Sifu & his talent but I did put a lot of work in with him this year on his fighting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzGYnxxwlPU

A+!!

**** that was a well timed kick!

[Satori Science]

hey, robert james is also the PG guy right?
Ive heared some good things about him from sifu Chow. If thats the one I am thinking about.

PG guy? I'm not familiar/ don't understand? But I don't know Sifu Chow, at least I dont think I do. Please fill me in,

cheers

[metsubushi]

haha that poor kid.

[Eddie]

sorry, I had my names mixed up.

[nospam]

It is agreed there are similarities between the CLF families, but each has their unique applications and philosophies. The differences may not be distinctive to the untrained eye, but anyone who has trained in CLF can see as plain as day when and where the paths split.

I had a thread earlier about the attack philosophy as can be evidenced through our patterns. Yes, you fight sideways and at first glance of technique it seems to be the same, but no you do not apply it in the same manner. You step differently, which is to say you move differently. If you move differently then we think differently. The individual technique may be the 'same' or very similar, as this we share, but string several moves together and the differences become more...apparent. It is the 'same' story told differently.

Great work Satori. Always a pleasure to watch your adventures.

nospam.
:cool:

[Satori Science]

Great work Satori. Always a pleasure to watch your adventures.

:cool:

Thanks man,

check the new vid, Sifu shows out a coupk=le of things,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5KdQaY6VeM

enjoy

[diego]

Satori, is the Bak hsing school that's in Regina private or commercial?.:)

I appreciate having the chance to see your guys old footage, Suen Sifu looks like a really good teacher, when you said you only trained a few years I was impressed at how well your Sifu groomed you in the fundamentals.

What was that board breaking test?...5 boards for side kick...

[chasincharpchui]

didnt need to hear wat suen sifu was sayin in the first 40 seconds
heard it many times from sifu and sigung

great demo of buck sing charp chui

[CLFNole]

One thing I noticed in the last video was something very similar to what we do in my lineage. The use of the waist and hip to get power when projecting out the chop choy. The other thing was the twisting/corkscrew motion of the chop choy.

[Satori Science]

Satori, is the Bak hsing school that's in Regina private or commercial?.:)

I appreciate having the chance to see your guys old footage, Suen Sifu looks like a really good teacher, when you said you only trained a few years I was impressed at how well your Sifu groomed you in the fundamentals.

What was that board breaking test?...5 boards for side kick...

I've trained in the system for 5 years but had previous experience in kung fu as well. But I have had the good forutne to spend a lot of time one on one with my teacher. I lived in my sihings school for a year & even worked for Sifu (for free I might add, but then I haven't paid him for lessons in years either) for 2 years in his dim sum restaurant. I got most of my best lessons hung over on sturday mornings drinking coffee with him and cutting chicken's feet:eek:

He is an excellent instructor and if I have any talent at all I owe it to him. the school was privately run by my sihings for about 10 years after my Sifu retired in 1989 but he kept a small group of Chinese students including my sworn brother Ian who has been with him since 1988. He "re-opened at the request of the chinese community in the late 90's & we teach the lion dance for the Chinese canadian assoc. in town and have a pretty core group that have been around for a long time. really we are neither commercial or private, we just are. Doing our thing.

5 pieces of board with a kick was one part of my next test, yes.

[diego]

I've trained in the system for 5 years but had previous experience in kung fu as well. But I have had the good forutne to spend a lot of time one on one with my teacher. I lived in my sihings school for a year & even worked for Sifu (for free I might add, but then I haven't paid him for lessons in years either) for 2 years in his dim sum restaurant. I got most of my best lessons hung over on sturday mornings drinking coffee with him and cutting chicken's feet:eek:

He is an excellent instructor and if I have any talent at all I owe it to him. the school was privately run by my sihings for about 10 years after my Sifu retired in 1989 but he kept a small group of Chinese students including my sworn brother Ian who has been with him since 1988. He "re-opened at the request of the chinese community in the late 90's & we teach the lion dance for the Chinese canadian assoc. in town and have a pretty core group that have been around for a long time. really we are neither commercial or private, we just are. Doing our thing.

5 pieces of board with a kick was one part of my next test, yes.
I noticed you guys have this subtle kidding with each other thing going...in the chat video you're prodding at him, "yeah, yeah" and he mimics you, I think it's cool how much of a family you guys seem.

cheers

[Satori Science]

I noticed you guys have this subtle kidding with each other thing going...in the chat video you're prodding at him, "yeah, yeah" and he mimics you, I think it's cool how much of a family you guys seem.

cheers

I took the Bisi I did with him pretty serious, he kept me fed thru college & kept me going/training thru a lot of hard times over the last few years. Originally he made me his disciple in the back of the restaurant. The ceremony was important to me so I prodded at him to do it with me before I left, he said "you know it really never mattered to me, all I'm worried about is what is in your heart"

I think you need to be grounded like that in TCMA, the art emphasizes so much on aggression and violence that without a good heart the results can be, well you get the idea. Mark Ho Sifu says just that in one of his interview vids, the the strength of TCMA is that they transcend simply being a way of killing, that they give you a sense of history and culture, they make a place in the world for you and help you to become a complete person because there must be more to the art than simply teaching the most direct method to kill. That said, the art cannot deviate from its purpose or it ceases to be a "martial" art. There are a lot of enlightened philosophers out there pretending to be taiji experts, I know as I've met a few....

[nospam]

Awesome vids - you're on a roll. Keep it going.

nospam.
:cool:

[diego]

I took the Bisi I did with him pretty serious, he kept me fed thru college & kept me going/training thru a lot of hard times over the last few years. Originally he made me his disciple in the back of the restaurant. The ceremony was important to me so I prodded at him to do it with me before I left, he said "you know it really never mattered to me, all I'm worried about is what is in your heart"

I think you need to be grounded like that in TCMA, the art emphasizes so much on aggression and violence that without a good heart the results can be, well you get the idea. Mark Ho Sifu says just that in one of his interview vids, the the strength of TCMA is that they transcend simply being a way of killing, that they give you a sense of history and culture, they make a place in the world for you and help you to become a complete person because there must be more to the art than simply teaching the most direct method to kill. That said, the art cannot deviate from its purpose or it ceases to be a "martial" art. There are a lot of enlightened philosophers out there pretending to be taiji experts, I know as I've met a few....
"What the heck's this guy doing on the stage":D After I make some dinner I'm gonna try to watch that hour long chat Franky Lau did with his Sifu, I'm sure I'll pick something up from a second viewing...you got me Googling Sharif Bey how much you big him up!.

Good luck with your training in BS CLF, it was cool to see a bit of it outside of the internet.

[Buck Sing Gwoon]

cool demos and vids of your sifu.good stuff Satori

[Satori Science]

cool demos and vids of your sifu.good stuff Satori

thanks Nick, I really appreciate the kind words.

[hskwarrior]

Brule if you don't know me you should introduce yourself.

I find it funny how people always try to relate to others who are proving their hard work and knowledge very successfully and saying, "oh yeah, we've always done that." If two things are the same then they would be "the same" but in many cases, just because it looks the same it feels totally different.

what are you trying to say? Have you ever seen what the Lau Bun lineage does in application? I mean really? we have been secretive for so long, can you honestly say to me that you know for sure that much of what the Buk Sing Kwoon does in fighting, is NOT some of the same stuff we do in Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut? Hmmm......i wonder if being that Buk Sing originally being Hung Sing would have any credence to what i'm saying?


YES THE BUK SING KWOON DESERVES ALL THE PROPS THE GET. AND TO ME BUK SING IS MY FAMILY IN THIS CHOY LEE FUT WORLD.

So if any of you got something to say directly to me.. here's my email......sifufrank@gmail.com

[Eddie]

Brule,
no worries. This isnt a fight at all. :cool:

dont worry about HSKWarrior. He cool off just as quick as he gets worked up.

[hskwarrior]

no need to cool off eddie.....im not ****ed. he obviously doesn't know my lineage. so its ok, ill stand up n answer for myself.

[hskwarrior]

its all good.

[Eddie]

where you from brule? what do you do?

sorry frank :rolleyes:

[Satori Science]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rNqHgmaQ3QA

A quick demo of our first set, it contains all the principle of movement and combat for the system and teaches the usage of our hand techniques. Not a bad demo I thought considering I hadn't done this form for 3 years. :D

[extrajoseph]

Not bad for a youngster, a little bit more waist/hip and a little bit more wrist/joint rotatation would have given you more power and more pentration with speed, instead you dragged your feet with every turn. The foundation of CLF is in Da Bok and Sie Bok. Don't worry if you don't agree, it is just an old guy's ranting. Carry on.

[Satori Science]

I agree, I was defiantly dragging my feet, like I've said I rarely work on forms at all & this was the first time I had gone thru that set at that pace in some time. To be honest I wasn't rooting off my front foot properly & even forgot the next movement once or twice. I actually forgot how much I like doing this form, I just ran thru it impromptu after sparring last night.

Its funny, the mistakes I saw are the things I always rag on students for when I teach the set. I'll post it up again once I put a little time into it. Just wanted to put up one of our less seen forms

Pce.

[Jeong]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rNqHgmaQ3QA

A quick demo of our first set, it contains all the principle of movement and combat for the system and teaches the usage of our hand techniques. Not a bad demo I thought considering I hadn't done this form for 3 years. :D

That was really cool, thanks for posting it. You can really see the northern influence in Bak Sing in that set.

[extrajoseph]

I agree, I was defiantly dragging my feet, like I've said I rarely work on forms at all & this was the first time I had gone thru that set at that pace in some time. Pce.

“ru zi ke jiao”!
孺子可教!

[Eddie]

Mister XJ, please can you tell me more, or send me links to sonehting i can read, about Da Bok Se Bok.

You;ve mentioned this years ago, and Im still trying to figure out what it is.
can you also type the chinese for me?

sorry for giving you these orders ;)

[extrajoseph]

Da Bok is to rotate the shoulder (hence the waist/hip) as though you are to strike with the back hand. Sie Bok is to unwind as though you are to strike with the lead hand. It is the first thing everyone learns in Ng Lun Ma, with our hands on our hip and move the yeo ma (waist and stance) only.

[Eddie]

oh ok. i understand.

thanks.

can you write the chinese text for that here please?

[Drake]

Da Bok is to rotate the shoulder (hence the waist/hip) as though you are to strike with the back hand. Sie Bok is to unwind as though you are to strike with the lead hand. It is the first thing everyone learns in Ng Lun Ma, with our hands on our hip and move the yeo ma (waist and stance) only.

Oooooh... so that's why we do it... :cool:

[extrajoseph]

oh ok. i understand.

thanks.

can you write the chinese text for that here please?

“da bok, sie bok”
打 膊, 射 膊

[Eddie]

thanks
谢谢

[nospam]

An interesting pattern. Although Satori and I are of the same family through our Sigung, our patterns have a distinctive difference. Not to mention my GBK is taught more at a 'green belt' level as we favor Yat Mun Kuen for our beginners.

GBK has always been my favorite pattern followed by Sup Ji Gin Kuen- the shorter version of Sup Ji.

Keep spreading the Faith bro.

nospam
:cool:

[Satori Science]

it may seem twisted but I haven't been able to stop laughing every time I watch it, its actually starting to get on Dave's nerves. its short and worth a good laugh.

am I humbel or what;)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q6xRTg2ZYTU

[diego]

it may seem twisted but I haven't been able to stop laughing every time I watch it, its actually starting to get on Dave's nerves. its short and worth a good laugh.

am I humbel or what;)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q6xRTg2ZYTU

lmao, glad I left yall crib when I did....:D

[hskwarrior]

i really like this one........

http://youtube.com/watch?v=j5KdQaY6VeM

[Steeeve]

Frank

You like the music or the demo of Sifu Suen;)

Steeve

[hskwarrior]

i can't hear it, i'm on the libraries computer.

sorry.

[nospam]

That was the rarely seen but often felt Bak Hsing SHADOW kick! Wong Fei Hung this sucker! :eek:;):D

nospam
:cool:

[Infrazael]

but Buk Sing has their right to claim the things they've developed. If no one else had developed it before, then they have the right to claim the first.

The Lien Wan Chop Choy is Tam Sam's development, now i see it in Chan Family material. As long as that gets acknowledged by the Chan, and give full credit to Tam Sam, or any school that adopts the Lien Wan into their curriculum, we all need to give Tam Sam full credit.

However, Chan Heung, and Jeung Hung Sing were equally as famous, and Jeung Yim was referred to as one of southern China's greatest fighters, and they deserve full credit for what they developed as well.

We should give ALL 3 masters full credit for what CLF has become today.

But as far as I know Lien Wan is just repetitive Chop Choys . . . there is nothing "super special" about it's application. Even I was doing it before I knew what it was "officially" called.

As for how much someone is leaning in, IMO, it depends on the situation and the person. I favor a more angular and more leaning type of style than some of my brothers.

[Satori Science]

But as far as I know Lien Wan is just repetitive Chop Choys . . . there is nothing "super special" about it's application. Even I was doing it before I knew what it was "officially" called.

As for how much someone is leaning in, IMO, it depends on the situation and the person. I favor a more angular and more leaning type of style than some of my brothers.

Then why is Tam Sam so famous and considered a Hung Sing masters by all of you even though he never completed the system?

Its not as simple as repetitive chops, it is the release of subsequent chop chois that are as, & even more powerful than the first without pulling the hand back at all but advancing with the fist and the step @ once. If you do this the way we do then you are lucky as it is the most useful fighting techniques I have ever learned. It is not about the shape or the "form" of the technique it is the substance of the movements performance, the method of generating and releasing power, the "sharpness of the ging" its quality....

" When mentioning Interlinking punching, created by Tam Sam I am really exclaimed. Twenty years ago, when the article on interlinking punching was published, many people from our community ("the CLF as a whole I assume") and even seniors showed different responses. Some of them said that in fact Interlinking punching is the punching from left to right. Every school has direct punching from left to right. Even the simplest wester quan has enlisted this basic fighting method."
Some of them said that interlinking punching has combined the punching from left to right with the punching of yin and yang and slinking and sneaking.
Even a person from our community said in an authoritative tone: "Every school is cheating by showing some unique skills. In fact there are no unique skills at all....."
Some people take the unknown as the known. At the time I was young and did not have the heart to debate with those seniors. I just practiced hard by myself."

Jun Chui Yu 3rd Gen. Bak Hsing Kwoon