Scott R. Brown
10-15-2001, 11:15 AM
Cowboy,
As I promised.
You wrote:
"But once spirituality is involved, it seems that there must be some type of awareness to cause, design, and create the structure. And that is because that requires order. Unless spitituality actually does not refer to something concrete and real, and is merely a trick we play on our own minds."
__________________________________________________ ____
This comment by you prompted me to want to think about the question of just what spirituality is, whether spirituality is concrete and real and where does spirituality lead, or in other words, What is the purpose of spirituality?
It seems that spirituality is defined in many ways. To some it means the occult practices. This is common in the modern new age movement. Spirituality is demonstrated by an individual’s knowledge and acceptance of occult abilities and the supposed higher wisdom these abilities access. To some spirituality is measured by the following of precise formula of behavior and ceremonial observances including worship and religious rites. This is common among “people of the Book”, i.e. Judaics, Christians and Islamics. To some spirituality is measured by supposed higher codes of behavior that include non-violence, vegetarianism, purification practices of fasting and meditation and understanding the natural rhythms of life. This is common among Buddhist, Taoist and Yoga traditions. And lastly we have what is commonly termed the “traditional religions”. These include Native American, Druidic and Wiccan practitioners. These follow systems of nature worship and magic. I am speaking here in general terms and not specific cases, of course there will be a multiplicity of variation amongst each of these generalized schools of thought.
Some people believe that there is one and only one method of attaining salvation. Others believe that all paths lead to the top of the mountain.
But what does it all mean? What is it that we are all attempting to accomplish? Are we all reaching for the same goal, or does each of us have different goals in mind? How do any of us know for sure that the path we have chosen is truly the right path?
Each of these are important questions that those who seek spirituality in whatever form it takes should be asking.
Of first importance should be what our ultimate goal is. If we do not know where we are going we will not be able to choose the best method for reaching our destination. To decide where we are going we must first decide just what it means to be spiritual. To discover what it means to be spiritual we must define what the spirit is. Here is a synopsis of our first three questions:
1) What is the Spirit?
2) What does it mean to be spiritual?
3) What is our ultimate spiritual goal, or rather the goal of spirituality?
__________________________________________________ ____
1) What is the Spirit?
To determine what the Spirit is we must first decide if the Spirit actually exists, and if it does exist how we can demonstrate it. To do this we must understand the two major paradigms or world views of mankind; the Occidental view and the Oriental view.
The Occidental view is generally oriented to the hard sciences. We have a tendency to consider something real if it can be experienced with the senses and measured using instruments. In general terms, tangible equals real to the Occidental mind. To this way of thinking, anything that is not tangible or measurable with instruments is subject to suspicion, i.e. anything that is subjective is either not real or less real.
The Oriental view of reality leans toward subjective experiences as being the true reality and the “real” world (physical, tangible and measurable world) as being an illusion. This can be illustrated by the well known comment made by Hui-neng the 6th patriarch of Chan:
“It happened that one day, when a pennant was blown about by the wind, two Bhikkhus entered into a dispute as to what it was that was in motion, the wind or the pennant. As they could not settle their difference I submitted to them that it was neither, and that what actually moved was their own mind.”
To this way of thinking, real is a function of what the mind projects onto the physical plane. By extension the mind is real and physical reality is merely our subjectivity projected outward onto the physical canvas of life, in other words the direct opposite of the Occidental view.
What does all this mean to the question of the reality of the Spirit?
How we chose to define reality will determine our conclusions about whether there is ample proof for the existence of the Spirit. If reality is what is tangible and measurable than out standard of proof is different than if reality springs from our subjective mind.
To the Occidental mind, if the Spirit exists it must be measurable, to the Oriental mind if the Spirit exists it must be experienced.
The closest evidence I have come across that may indicate the presence of the Spirit in measurable terms is a little known test performed by Dr. Duncan MacDougall in 1907 and published in the journal “American Medicine”. Dr. MacDougall surmised that if humans have a Spirit that the personality occupies, than this Spirit must occupy space and therefore be measurable, because anything that occupies space must consist of matter.
The following is a direct quote from that article:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>“My first subject was a man dying of tuberculosis. It seemed to me best to select a patient dying with a disease that produces great exhaustion, the death occurring with little or no muscular movement, because in such a case the beam could be kept more perfectly at balance and any loss occurring readily noted.
The patient was under observation for three hours and forty minutes before death, lying on a bed arranged on a light framework built upon very delicately balanced platform beam scales.
The patient's comfort was looked after in every way, although he was practically moribund when placed upon the bed. He lost weight slowly at the rate of one ounce per hour due to evaporation of moisture in respiration and evaporation of sweat.
During all three hours and forty minutes I kept the beam end slightly above balance near the upper limiting bar in order to make the test more decisive if it should come.
At the end of three hours and forty minutes he expired and suddenly coincident with death the beam end dropped with an audible stroke hitting against the lower limiting bar and remaining there with no rebound. The loss was ascertained to be three-fourths of an ounce.
This loss of weight could not be due to evaporation of respiratory moisture and sweat, because that had already been determined to go on, in his case, at the rate of one sixtieth of an ounce per minute, whereas this loss was sudden and large, three-fourths of an ounce in a few seconds.
The bowels did not move; if they had moved the weight would still have remained upon the bed except for a slow loss by the evaporation of moisture depending, of course, upon the fluidity of the feces. The bladder evacuated one or two drams of urine. This remained upon the bed and could only have influenced the weight by slow gradual evaporation and therefore in no way could account for the sudden loss.
There remained but one more channel of loss to explore, the expiration of all but the residual air in the lungs. Getting upon the bed myself, my colleague put the beam at actual balance. Inspiration and expiration of air as forcibly as possible by me had no effect upon the beam. My colleague got upon the bed and I placed the beam at balance. Forcible inspiration and expiration of air on his part had no effect. In this case we certainly have an inexplicable loss of weight of three-fourths of an ounce. Is it the soul substance? How other shall we explain it? “[/quote]
In his article, Dr. MacDougall includes 4 other study cases with similar results and one final case that was so hurried that it did not meet the scientific criterion even though there was a measurable loss of weight. Interestingly enough, Dr. MacDougall performed the same test on 15 dogs ranging in weight from 15-70 lbs. Dr. MacDougall writes, “The same experiments were carried out on fifteen dogs, surrounded by every precaution to obtain accuracy and the results were uniformly negative, no loss of weight at death. “
While Dr. MacDougall is careful to state that this is not exact proof of a Spirit, it does prove that a phenomenon of unknown origin occurs at the time of death that would appear to indicate the possibility of a tangible Spirit.
This is enough to get us going for now. I have children that require some attention. Let’s have some fun here.
I will continue when I can and let’s see what everyone else has to say.
Sincerely,
Scott
[This message was edited by Scott R. Brown on 10-16-01 at 02:24 AM.]
[This message was edited by Scott R. Brown on 10-16-01 at 02:26 AM.]
As I promised.
You wrote:
"But once spirituality is involved, it seems that there must be some type of awareness to cause, design, and create the structure. And that is because that requires order. Unless spitituality actually does not refer to something concrete and real, and is merely a trick we play on our own minds."
__________________________________________________ ____
This comment by you prompted me to want to think about the question of just what spirituality is, whether spirituality is concrete and real and where does spirituality lead, or in other words, What is the purpose of spirituality?
It seems that spirituality is defined in many ways. To some it means the occult practices. This is common in the modern new age movement. Spirituality is demonstrated by an individual’s knowledge and acceptance of occult abilities and the supposed higher wisdom these abilities access. To some spirituality is measured by the following of precise formula of behavior and ceremonial observances including worship and religious rites. This is common among “people of the Book”, i.e. Judaics, Christians and Islamics. To some spirituality is measured by supposed higher codes of behavior that include non-violence, vegetarianism, purification practices of fasting and meditation and understanding the natural rhythms of life. This is common among Buddhist, Taoist and Yoga traditions. And lastly we have what is commonly termed the “traditional religions”. These include Native American, Druidic and Wiccan practitioners. These follow systems of nature worship and magic. I am speaking here in general terms and not specific cases, of course there will be a multiplicity of variation amongst each of these generalized schools of thought.
Some people believe that there is one and only one method of attaining salvation. Others believe that all paths lead to the top of the mountain.
But what does it all mean? What is it that we are all attempting to accomplish? Are we all reaching for the same goal, or does each of us have different goals in mind? How do any of us know for sure that the path we have chosen is truly the right path?
Each of these are important questions that those who seek spirituality in whatever form it takes should be asking.
Of first importance should be what our ultimate goal is. If we do not know where we are going we will not be able to choose the best method for reaching our destination. To decide where we are going we must first decide just what it means to be spiritual. To discover what it means to be spiritual we must define what the spirit is. Here is a synopsis of our first three questions:
1) What is the Spirit?
2) What does it mean to be spiritual?
3) What is our ultimate spiritual goal, or rather the goal of spirituality?
__________________________________________________ ____
1) What is the Spirit?
To determine what the Spirit is we must first decide if the Spirit actually exists, and if it does exist how we can demonstrate it. To do this we must understand the two major paradigms or world views of mankind; the Occidental view and the Oriental view.
The Occidental view is generally oriented to the hard sciences. We have a tendency to consider something real if it can be experienced with the senses and measured using instruments. In general terms, tangible equals real to the Occidental mind. To this way of thinking, anything that is not tangible or measurable with instruments is subject to suspicion, i.e. anything that is subjective is either not real or less real.
The Oriental view of reality leans toward subjective experiences as being the true reality and the “real” world (physical, tangible and measurable world) as being an illusion. This can be illustrated by the well known comment made by Hui-neng the 6th patriarch of Chan:
“It happened that one day, when a pennant was blown about by the wind, two Bhikkhus entered into a dispute as to what it was that was in motion, the wind or the pennant. As they could not settle their difference I submitted to them that it was neither, and that what actually moved was their own mind.”
To this way of thinking, real is a function of what the mind projects onto the physical plane. By extension the mind is real and physical reality is merely our subjectivity projected outward onto the physical canvas of life, in other words the direct opposite of the Occidental view.
What does all this mean to the question of the reality of the Spirit?
How we chose to define reality will determine our conclusions about whether there is ample proof for the existence of the Spirit. If reality is what is tangible and measurable than out standard of proof is different than if reality springs from our subjective mind.
To the Occidental mind, if the Spirit exists it must be measurable, to the Oriental mind if the Spirit exists it must be experienced.
The closest evidence I have come across that may indicate the presence of the Spirit in measurable terms is a little known test performed by Dr. Duncan MacDougall in 1907 and published in the journal “American Medicine”. Dr. MacDougall surmised that if humans have a Spirit that the personality occupies, than this Spirit must occupy space and therefore be measurable, because anything that occupies space must consist of matter.
The following is a direct quote from that article:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>“My first subject was a man dying of tuberculosis. It seemed to me best to select a patient dying with a disease that produces great exhaustion, the death occurring with little or no muscular movement, because in such a case the beam could be kept more perfectly at balance and any loss occurring readily noted.
The patient was under observation for three hours and forty minutes before death, lying on a bed arranged on a light framework built upon very delicately balanced platform beam scales.
The patient's comfort was looked after in every way, although he was practically moribund when placed upon the bed. He lost weight slowly at the rate of one ounce per hour due to evaporation of moisture in respiration and evaporation of sweat.
During all three hours and forty minutes I kept the beam end slightly above balance near the upper limiting bar in order to make the test more decisive if it should come.
At the end of three hours and forty minutes he expired and suddenly coincident with death the beam end dropped with an audible stroke hitting against the lower limiting bar and remaining there with no rebound. The loss was ascertained to be three-fourths of an ounce.
This loss of weight could not be due to evaporation of respiratory moisture and sweat, because that had already been determined to go on, in his case, at the rate of one sixtieth of an ounce per minute, whereas this loss was sudden and large, three-fourths of an ounce in a few seconds.
The bowels did not move; if they had moved the weight would still have remained upon the bed except for a slow loss by the evaporation of moisture depending, of course, upon the fluidity of the feces. The bladder evacuated one or two drams of urine. This remained upon the bed and could only have influenced the weight by slow gradual evaporation and therefore in no way could account for the sudden loss.
There remained but one more channel of loss to explore, the expiration of all but the residual air in the lungs. Getting upon the bed myself, my colleague put the beam at actual balance. Inspiration and expiration of air as forcibly as possible by me had no effect upon the beam. My colleague got upon the bed and I placed the beam at balance. Forcible inspiration and expiration of air on his part had no effect. In this case we certainly have an inexplicable loss of weight of three-fourths of an ounce. Is it the soul substance? How other shall we explain it? “[/quote]
In his article, Dr. MacDougall includes 4 other study cases with similar results and one final case that was so hurried that it did not meet the scientific criterion even though there was a measurable loss of weight. Interestingly enough, Dr. MacDougall performed the same test on 15 dogs ranging in weight from 15-70 lbs. Dr. MacDougall writes, “The same experiments were carried out on fifteen dogs, surrounded by every precaution to obtain accuracy and the results were uniformly negative, no loss of weight at death. “
While Dr. MacDougall is careful to state that this is not exact proof of a Spirit, it does prove that a phenomenon of unknown origin occurs at the time of death that would appear to indicate the possibility of a tangible Spirit.
This is enough to get us going for now. I have children that require some attention. Let’s have some fun here.
I will continue when I can and let’s see what everyone else has to say.
Sincerely,
Scott
[This message was edited by Scott R. Brown on 10-16-01 at 02:24 AM.]
[This message was edited by Scott R. Brown on 10-16-01 at 02:26 AM.]