Iron Hand for everyone

[Black Jack II]

Iron palm for those on the go.

Since their was a thread about IP effectiveness a few posts down I thought I would throw out a post on the real deal. I am not sure if anyone here carries fist-loads, I personally do as part of my own self defense carry and have for a number of years.

If not I would recommend them greatly. The below website offers a variety of choices for sale. I and the wife have the Comtech Stinger but I also sometimes carry a koppo stick instead.


http://g2max.bravehost.com/kubotan02.html

Now if you want to talk REAL iron palm, then their is nothing even close to a flat sap. It is my favorite carry, but be carefull where you live due to legal issues and understand those personal choices.

http://combativeconcepts.org/ss_sap1.jpg

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Why don't you just learn to hit better? The you don't have to worry about weapon deployment time.

[Black Jack II]

Why don't you just learn to hit better? The you don't have to worry about weapon deployment time.

LOL.

I am still trying to work on getting my chi to the point where I can kill people with a look.

[IronWeasel]

.

LOL.

I am still trying to work on getting my chi to the point where I can kill people with a look.



I've seen your picture. You're almost there!


:p

[Lucas]

Personally, I prefer a blade.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

That depends on who you are going against. If I had to fight my Kuntao teacher I'd rather be empty handed. He's just too darn good at stabbing you with your own knife...while it is still in your hand! :eek:

[Lucas]

Tell you what. If I meet your Kuntao teacher in a dark alley and he wants to stab me with my own knife....I'll be sure and shoot him instead :p

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

He likes Guns too. :D

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I would run away, or offer expensive Micro Brew.

[Oso]

...........expensive Micro Brew.

sniff, sniff.....snuffle?

[Lucas]

I would run away, or offer expensive Micro Brew.

ahh... poison be me weapon then ;)

[RonH]

He likes Guns too. :D

Does he like claymores?

[Black Jack II]

That depends on who you are going against. If I had to fight my Kuntao teacher I'd rather be empty handed. He's just too darn good at stabbing you with your own knife...while it is still in your hand

Turst me, you would still rather have the tool.:cool:

We are not monkey's, take any advantage that you can get your mitts on.

[Steve Hamp]

When was the last time you had to use these "special weapons" in a fight? I couldn't imagine carrying such things, "just in case".

Do you walk everywhere you go. I mean, to work, to the grocery store, when you go out to eat? Also, Iron Palm is not the end all. Just because someone has developed these skills, doesn't mean they are carrying with them some sort of "magical slap". They still have to have true fighting skills.

Develop your skills, and there is nothing to fear.

[Dale Dugas]

Steve,

Great words of wisdom.

Good to see you here again brother.

[Black Jack II]

Develop your skills, and there is nothing to fear.

Dead Wrong

It's not about fear, its about being aware of reality. The above quote is the same type of nonsense that gets people into trouble when they should of been better prepared.

I'll make a few succinct statements to this point for those that don't get the big picture:

ALL of your training will depend on your incentive and motivation to follow through. If you perceive a good reason to engage in any type of training, chances are that you will apply yourself.

If you choose to omit reality based weapn training from your training regimen, or any other "important factor", then you are reducing your overall odds of prevailing in that one vital confrontation.

The primary point is that unarmed combat is to be regarded as being the option used when their are no other superior tactical advantages around, such as weaponry, escape or evasion.

In the end, it's a matter of how you want to stack the odds against an opponent who may never appear. To many of us, the cost of losing such a situation is too high, so we train and are prepared.


When was the last time you had to use these "special weapons" in a fight? I couldn't imagine carrying such things, "just in case".

Glad you cannot imagine carrying such things but I am glad I do and did.


Do you walk everywhere you go. I mean, to work, to the grocery store, when you go out to eat

Having to use my legs then yes I would have to walk to get to places.:confused:


Also, Iron Palm is not the end all. Just because someone has developed these skills,

It's not even the close all.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The primary point is that unarmed combat is to be regarded as being the option used when their are no other superior tactical advantages around, such as weaponry, escape or evasion.

An excellent point, one that no one will argue with.
That said, one must also try to give oneself every possible advantage in the empty handed realm.

That is why you add grappling if you don't have it or the answer to it, that is why one adds weapons systems to their arsenal, or should anyways.

[Black Jack II]

That is why you add grappling if you don't have it or the answer to it, that is why one adds weapons systems to their arsenal, or should anyways.

110% agreement. I never would say otherwise.

[Egg fu young]

http://www.twc-kungfu.com/articles/ironpalm/index.html

[IronWeasel]

When was the last time you had to use these "special weapons" in a fight? I couldn't imagine carrying such things, "just in case".

Do you walk everywhere you go. I mean, to work, to the grocery store, when you go out to eat? Also, Iron Palm is not the end all. Just because someone has developed these skills, doesn't mean they are carrying with them some sort of "magical slap". They still have to have true fighting skills.

Develop your skills, and there is nothing to fear.


Wow...Coach Steve is here.

Welcome back!

[SevenStar]

When was the last time you had to use these "special weapons" in a fight? I couldn't imagine carrying such things, "just in case".

Do you walk everywhere you go. I mean, to work, to the grocery store, when you go out to eat? Also, Iron Palm is not the end all. Just because someone has developed these skills, doesn't mean they are carrying with them some sort of "magical slap". They still have to have true fighting skills.

Develop your skills, and there is nothing to fear.

I have used one before. I carry one with me most places I go. I know I hit hard - I've seen what I can do before. But better safe than sorry, especially when you have no idea if more people will get involved or if there are any other weapons involved.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I had a buddy that had "sap gloves", these fingerless gloves that look like very thin MMA gloves and they were filled with steel shoot (very small shot).
**** things were probably worn by Batman !

Like these but fingerless:
http://www.1stlinesecurity.com/sapgloves.html

[Steve Hamp]

Glad you cannot imagine carrying such things but I am glad I do and did.

Have you used these weapons in a fight before??



Having to use my legs then yes I would have to walk to get to places.:confused:

You don't drive anywhere, you walk everywhere you go??

If these weapons make the "fear" go away, then more power to you. I thought this thread was on Iron Palm, not brass knuckles.

[Black Jack II]

If these weapons make the "fear" go away, then more power to you. I thought this thread was on Iron Palm, not brass knuckles.

I never said they make any "fear" go away. It's about being honest with the environment around you.

This post was never about traditional iron palm, but it is about being conceptual in your self defense training and how iron palm training will never really fit into this for the vast majority of people who need access to a legit method of protection.

An example, Seven from my understanding is a large person, with more than a few years of both traditional training and non-traditional training under his belt, and yet he still carries certain tools with him.

The same goes for the 5 foot 110 pound college student or housewife. It's all about having access to tools.

Simple, powerful, portable, devices that greatly amplifies your ability to deliver force when needed.


I had a buddy that had "sap gloves",

In the old days, back when inner city street cops were allowed to carry saps, their was a tool they used called the palm sap. It hid perfectly into the center of your palm and certain cops could get a street reputation as a no-nonsense tough guy with "one shot" knockout power.

Being able to knock out the skels with just a slap.;)

[golden arhat]

When was the last time you had to use these "special weapons" in a fight? I couldn't imagine carrying such things, "just in case".

Do you walk everywhere you go. I mean, to work, to the grocery store, when you go out to eat? Also, Iron Palm is not the end all. Just because someone has developed these skills, doesn't mean they are carrying with them some sort of "magical slap". They still have to have true fighting skills.

Develop your skills, and there is nothing to fear.

wont be sayin that when u get shot will ya

[golden arhat]

The primary point is that unarmed combat is to be regarded as being the option used when their are no other superior tactical advantages around, such as weaponry, escape or evasion.



i think miyamoto musashi said something similar




only a fool would deny using all his tools and restrict himself

[sanjuro_ronin]

I never said they make any "fear" go away. It's about being honest with the environment around you.

This post was never about traditional iron palm, but it is about being conceptual in your self defense training and how iron palm training will never really fit into this for the vast majority of people who need access to a legit method of protection.

An example, Seven from my understanding is a large person, with more than a few years of both traditional training and non-traditional training under his belt, and yet he still carries certain tools with him.

The same goes for the 5 foot 110 pound college student or housewife. It's all about having access to tools.

Simple, powerful, portable, devices that greatly amplifies your ability to deliver force when needed.


In the old days, back when inner city street cops were allowed to carry saps, their was a tool they used called the palm sap. It hid perfectly into the center of your palm and certain cops could get a street reputation as a no-nonsense tough guy with "one shot" knockout power.

Being able to knock out the skels with just a slap.;)

Before I was exposed to Kali I ASSumed that what I had trained in would give me a chance against a knife.
I was wrong.
So I trained in Kali and I know carry a folder ( have done for a while actually), not to use it, but to have it as some sort of equalizer if someone pulls their knife.
Better chance than empty handed.
I have had fights as a bouncer with the folder on me and never once felt the urge to pull it.
I associate knife with knife and fists with fists.

[cranky old man]

in my opinion one should have other tools to use particularly in this day and age . 50 years ago in some large citys l had a alternate weapon besides my hands always. l have always something else especially now as l am in my 70s. my daughter and l were attacked by a pit bull had l not had something god knows what would have happened.

[Lucas]

i think miyamoto musashi said something similar




only a fool would deny using all his tools and restrict himself

Straight budo.

In times of peace be prepared for war and all that. Same concept.

Would rather have something and not need it than need something and not have it kind of thing.

[Black Jack II]

Before I was exposed to Kali I ASSumed that what I had trained in would give me a chance against a knife.
I was wrong.
So I trained in Kali and I know carry a folder ( have done for a while actually), not to use it, but to have it as some sort of equalizer if someone pulls their knife.

I have trained in a few FMA systems as well and also carry a edged weapon on my person. Even after this exposure and training, to be honest I still think some of the new breed kali peeps teach over intricate and sometimes even inappropriate counters and strips in response to an armed struggle.

I much prefer Karl Tanswell's Stab Program or the Red Zone by far.

Now if we are talking about fma in non-defensive mode and on the attack, that is a different story.;)


I associate knife with knife and fists with fists.

Makes sense, but it depends on the context of the situation, going knife to fist because some bouncer pushes you and you quick draw and slice his throat as in the case of that Sayoc off-shoot in New York is absurd, but going knife to fist if you are being mugged may be something much different all together.


i think miyamoto musashi said something similar

Is that the famous Japenese pornstar who invented the famous position known as the "walking tripod"?

[sanjuro_ronin]

I have trained in a few FMA systems as well and also carry a edged weapon on my person. Even after this exposure and training, to be honest I still think some of the new breed kali peeps teach over intricate and sometimes even inappropriate counters and strips in response to an armed struggle.

I much prefer Karl Tanswell's Stab Program or the Red Zone by far.

Now if we are talking about fma in non-defensive mode and on the attack, that is a different story.

I think that STAB and REDZONE are by far two of the best emptyhand solutions to the blade, that and the DBMA "dog catcher", which goes very well with STAB and REDZONE.
Most of the kali stuff is, well, kali oriented.
I think that the overly fancy stuff is just that, fancy, BUT when faced with a "kali attack", the core works great ( actually the core works great period), the STAB and RZ is more "basic" and very effective VS the "simple" attack, I think you know what I mean.

As a side note, IP and Kali go great together, kali is very much into the slap.


Makes sense, but it depends on the context of the situation, going knife to fist because some bouncer pushes you and you quick draw and slice his throat as in the case of that Sayoc off-shoot in New York is absurd, but going knife to fist if you are being mugged may be something much different all together.

Legal issues aside, I still have issues pulling a blade on a SINGLE unarmed attacker.

[Black Jack II]

Legal issues aside, I still have issues pulling a blade on a SINGLE unarmed attacker.

I understand, but to me its all in the context, only the real context of the situation and your mindset at the time can really determine that choice.

The point really being, if you need it, you have it on you.


As a side note, IP and Kali go great together, kali is very much into the slap.

Very much so in the case of Pekiti-tirsia, a lot of power slapping and hacking involved, some systems not as much, but all around the slap is a big part of a number of the systems programs.


Most of the kali stuff is, well, kali oriented.

and their sits the issue, I think stripped down kali, btw I hate that word as it is a marketing term, is excellent stuff as the core is all that is really needed.

The core coupled with forward drive and an aggressive mindset.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I understand, but to me its all in the context, only the real context of the situation and your mindset at the time can really determine that choice.

The point really being, if you need it, you have it on you.



Very much so in the case of Pekiti-tirsia, a lot of power slapping and hacking involved, some systems not as much, but all around the slap is a big part of a number of the systems programs.



and their sits the issue, I think stripped down kali, btw I hate that word as it is a marketing term, is excellent stuff as the core is all that is really needed.

The core coupled with forward drive and an aggressive mindset.

I knew there was a reason why I tolerate you and haven't sent ninjas to do all sorts of nasty things to you in your sleep

:D

[Black Jack II]

As long as those ninja's don't have a scorching case of the herpes I think I might be able to take them.

Ninja's with herpes are tougher than Mechagodzilla 3 on roids.

BTW-For those that have not seen it, here is a vid of the STAB program. For me it was a little glitchy, hope it works better for you.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KAT5-OIxvA

[bakxierboxer]

As long as those ninja's don't have a scorching case of the herpes I think I might be able to take them.

Ninja's with herpes are tougher than Mechagodzilla 3 on roids.

BTW-For those that have not seen it, here is a vid of the STAB program. For me it was a little glitchy, hope it works better for you.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KAT5-OIxvA

So.... lemme get this right.
The big-lug/fella re-tying his drawstring had that raging case of herpes?
... and even if he did, it shouldn't have been THAT much of a problem, so long as his pants stayed up.....