Defence Against Front Tackles [Archive]

SAAMAG

03-24-2008, 03:29 PM

Do you know why no one has metioned any wing chun solutions to the double leg takedown (or single leg for that matter)? Because that system really doesn't have a said defense against it. That system wasn't designed for that.

The fact of the matter is, not every system has the answer for every attack. So the solution is, to find a defense that works, regardless of where it comes from. Although I personally think that trying to confine one's defenses to a particular system is stupid and dangerous, I will give a pointer on it.

Simply try having a wrestler, or BJJ'er, or MMA'ist friend come at you over and over again. Try using different wing chun techniques, be it the chain punch, a knee, the YGKYM rooting and some attack, a step away and redirection, or whatever you want. Be pragmatic about it and see if it works.

Then, try the defense the way the guys that defend against it all the time do. In other words, try the defense that other wrestlers, BJJ'ers, or MMA'ists do.

See what works for YOU, and stick with it. Loyalty to your style or your teacher is all well and good; but only you are going be responsible for protecting yourself...your grand sifu isn't going to walk around with you to protect you. So my advice is to get as good at wing chun as you desire. Focus on it your whole life if you want, but try and understand the dynamics of it, and don't be afraid to acknowledge it's design limitations (in addition to it's strengths). Honesty is the best policy when talking about fighting. Over-confidence is a killer.

Long story short: just about every martial arts system is simply a quid pro quo method. You give up learning x skill to learn y skill. The reason is because most systems are based on a particular area that the founder was especially good at, thus the reason why the style became popular.

Good luck!

Vajramusti

03-24-2008, 04:45 PM

Do you know why no one has metioned any wing chun solutions to the double leg takedown (or single leg for that matter)? Because that system really doesn't have a said defense against it. That system wasn't designed for that.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
((You are entitled to your opinion-based on what you know))

joy chaudhuri

James O

03-24-2008, 05:27 PM

The whole reason I posted this in the first place was to see what tactics or techniques people may have for a front takedown. Never did I say that it must follow Wing Chun doctrine.
I was then going to assess and experiment with what others had shared until I had something that worked effectively for me.

So far, noone has helped me at all.

unkokusai

03-24-2008, 08:29 PM

Well, the level of ignorance you have expressed so far on the subject can really be off-putting but:

SPRAWL

Start with that and come back when you are ready for more.

James O

03-24-2008, 08:37 PM

Well, the level of ignorance you have expressed so far on the subject can really be off-putting but:

SPRAWL

Start with that and come back when you are ready for more.

Have I done something to personally offend you, or are you usually this rude ?

SAAMAG

03-24-2008, 08:58 PM

unkokusai

03-24-2008, 10:33 PM

Have I done something to personally offend you, or are you usually this rude ?

I'm usually kind of rude, to be honest.

Mr Punch

03-24-2008, 11:24 PM

LMAO, it's true, he is.

He's right, though.

Furthermore, when people are trying to point you in the right direction, you come back with nonsense like
Sure, they may dance around their opponents at first if that's what you are saying but when they decide to get in close and charge at you trying to tackle you down, they'll charge straight at you.straight from the Uncle Ned school of rabbit shooting. Nobody 'charges straight at you' and most grapplers can drop a double leg on you from well within your comfort range as quick as most chunners can find a lop sao.

As people have said, generally the best answer is sprawl. If you're lucky and you are fighting a head-down-charge scrub, a step back, uppercut/knee/box to the ears may just work. It helps if they're drunk. Either way, you need to practice it against someone who knows what they're doing.

Incidentally, in relation to chun, Van is completely correct: there didn't appear to be any kind of shot around when wing chun was developed, and there aren't many in the history of kung fu (I'm being generous - I haven't seen evidence of any but I suppose there may be), so wing chun doesn't have an answer. There may be retrofitted versions:

1) I know there are elements of biu jee and its forerunners that I've found can help some people to understand the dynamics of a sprawl, but in general its like reinventing the wheel and deciding that square is better. Check out an art that specializes in it.

2) 'Footwork footwork footwork' is the mantra from wing chun guys 'in the know', along with 'distancing distancing distancing', 'angles angles angles' etc etc etc... may as well be the diamond sutra or all the good it'll do you against a fast committed wrestler/JJka. Save that one for the scrubs.

tattooedmonk

03-24-2008, 11:37 PM

No one is being rude...and people have already mentioned the correct method of defense.

Tell you what...email Joy. Apparently he's got some secret technique that's been passed down since the wing chun was created that is a sure fire winner against the double leg takedown. So far I've seen no wing chun person that could stop one. Not one. If they do...it won't be a wing chun technique.

Maybe you can get Joy to post up a vid of a skilled fighter trying to take him down and Joy defending it successfully. Fat chance though. No pun intended. And how many NHB fights have you seen with a BJJ guy taking down a Wing Chun guy??

NO wing chun practitioner EVER can defend against a takedown using WC??

I bet you believe that the best fighters in the world are in WEC and UFC and that none of them can be beaten by someone outside of thoses organizations, right??

And that unless you are doing Muay Thai and BJJ then you will never be able to defend yourself and are just a larpist , right??:rolleyes::eek::rolleyes:

tattooedmonk

03-24-2008, 11:59 PM

I think most of the people on this forum who are no longer CMA practitioners and now are MMA practitioners should check themselves. I mean really. To say that CMA does not have any answers to all the NHB / UFC/ WEC/ BBJ way of fighting is just stupid. If any of you took the CMA that you were taught and used them to their fullest potential you would find that there are plenty of answers to the questions that might be asked. But no, most of you do not have that kind of patience and understanding. You compartmentalize everything that has been taught to you and do not think of it as a live , moving , continuous and evolving. You were taught it one way you only use it one way.

Ever since it became outlawed , demilitarized ( lacking martial intent and application)and then a business, CMA / TMA have not taught the full and complete scope of their respective arts. I think alot can be learned from ,like the fact that all martial arts at one time were like it. You can not reinvent the wheel . All the moves have been done before.

CMA has always been an MMA.

At one time Shuai Jiao /Chiao li / etc. had kicking / punching/ throwing and grappling. Notice that the grappling is after the throwing?? To me this is an indication that Chin Na can be done on the ground after the person has been taken down. I have never heard , except from MMA guys and CMa guys who only learned CMA on a superficial level, that Chin Na is only used standing up and that there are no strategies for groundfighting ( grappling/ striking).

Is it not Tim Cartmell who in his new book shows early 20th century Chinese doing ground grappling??

I was taught CMA groundfighting over 17 years ago.

James O

03-25-2008, 12:40 AM

Thank you for the answer but I'm not going to post on this forum again if the members here will not treat each other with dignity and respect and speak in a civil manner.

unkokusai

03-25-2008, 01:01 AM

Nice knowin' ya. Good luck with the 'anti head-dives.' I'm sure you'll be the hero of your third cousin's wedding when your drunk Uncle Earl takes a dive at you from 7 feet away, passing out before he even gets to you.

"Cousin Dude! Where did you learn to fight like that?"

"Its a Wing Chun thing, you wouldn't understand."

unkokusai

03-25-2008, 01:05 AM

I think most of the people on this forum who are no longer CMA practitioners and now are MMA practitioners should check themselves. I mean really.

Whoa, you mean really? Well that's different. Why didn't you say so before?

sanjuro_ronin

03-25-2008, 04:11 AM

Sure, they may dance around their opponents at first if that's what you are saying but when they decide to get in close and charge at you trying to tackle you down, they'll charge straight at you. I suppose I used the words 'charging straight' to emphasize their aggressive nature.
Anyway, nobody has expressed any counter tactics or techniques for this attack except to knee them which surely would send you to ground since you would then be on only 1 leg, or to uppercut them in the face which probably wouldn't stop them taking hold on you and bringing you to the ground.

I think that if you really want to have the answer to a well done take down attempt ( not the actual take down, that is a different thing), you need to train with guys that are excellent at take downs, they will open your eyes to the numerous ways they can take you down and from all different ranges and angles, you then take that info and see how to best use it in your system of H2H.
The sprawl is a great place to start because it not only takes your opponents targets away, it put you in a superiour position to launch a counter-attack(s).
If you have issues dealing with the Jab, you train with boxers, issues dealing with the low round kick or strikes in the clinch, you train with MT guys.

Whenever you want to focus on dealing with a specialized skill set, like a take down, train with people that specialize in it.

James O

03-25-2008, 05:37 AM

That's good advice, thank you Sanjuro.

sanjuro_ronin

03-25-2008, 06:18 AM

One thing though, and this is very important, training with people well trained in a specific skill set is NOT the same as training with people in your own school or gym that THINK they can do that skill set.
EX:
I took a Shuai Chaio guy to a judo class once and he was thrown around like a rag doll, I then took one of the judo guys to the SC class and HE was thrown around like a rag doll and the skill sets are far more similar than they are different.

Trust me when I say that, defending the take down VS a well trained grappler and doing the same VS a guy that "knows" how to do a take down is quite a different thing.

SAAMAG

03-25-2008, 10:12 AM

And how many NHB fights have you seen with a BJJ guy taking down a Wing Chun guy??

NO wing chun practitioner EVER can defend against a takedown using WC??

I bet you believe that the best fighters in the world are in WEC and UFC and that none of them can be beaten by someone outside of thoses organizations, right??

And that unless you are doing Muay Thai and BJJ then you will never be able to defend yourself and are just a larpist , right??:rolleyes::eek::rolleyes:

Sorry If I offended you with saying that wing chun had no defense for the tackle. But since you would like to know my qualifications and why I said it, I'll oblige.

I've trained in martial arts since I was 5 years old. I'm 31 now. My first style was karate, my first black belt was in TKD. In my teen years, my training focused on fighting styles then like wing chun, boxing, and muay thai; and by the way to this day--those are my longest practiced and strongest skillsets. I've got experience from a number of wing chun people/systems and also a couple of different thai coaches. But from there I started to learn a lot of traditional chinese shaolin martial arts. Jingang Quan and Wu xing Chuan. In the process learned lots of chin na, shiua jiao, tai chi, and weapons. I actually preferred Sanda the best...because we were able to incorporate all the prementioned in a full contact arena where I could use the strikes AND throws. Anyway...since MMA was becoming even more popular, I decided it was time to learn some ground game, because a smart fighter stays with the times and adapts to his or her surroundings. I learned BJJ for almost a year, mainly to keep myself out of trouble so I could get back to my own preferred methods. Now I maintain my wing chun, boxing, and muay thai for the most part.

You see, I've been a mixed martial artist see well before being an mma'er was popular. I've trained in a number of wing chun schools and from a number of lineages. None had a defense for the takedown other than stay away or rotate out of the way. None really worked because one theory was contradictory to the wing chun method of shooting in, and the other just simply didn't work.

Just in case you didn't know, most traditional arts were also formulated from mixing martial arts. None of it is pure my friend. So adapting outside your system or adapting your current system is simply evolution and improvement. The pragmatic process has been lost somewhere though...probably when teachers wanted to retain students and keep them under contract and so someone started talking crap about loyalty to the system and everything can be found in the forms bull. Be loyal to yourself, because it's only you that's going to determine the outcome of any of your fights.

SAAMAG

03-25-2008, 10:27 AM

I think most of the people on this forum who are no longer CMA practitioners and now are MMA practitioners should check themselves. I mean really. To say that CMA does not have any answers to all the NHB / UFC/ WEC/ BBJ way of fighting is just stupid.

By your own admittance, being a CMA artist is a MMA'ist. I don't care where the technique comes from, as long as it works (for me).

If any of you took the CMA that you were taught and used them to their fullest potential you would find that there are plenty of answers to the questions that might be asked. But no, most of you do not have that kind of patience and understanding. You compartmentalize everything that has been taught to you and do not think of it as a live , moving , continuous and evolving. You were taught it one way you only use it one way.

The answer is in the forms right? Most people who want to learn to fight don't have time to study the same form set for 10 years before figuring out how to adapt their system to defend something. It's not about lack of patience, it's about efficiency.

Ever since it became outlawed , demilitarized ( lacking martial intent and application)and then a business, CMA / TMA have not taught the full and complete scope of their respective arts. I think alot can be learned from ,like the fact that all martial arts at one time were like it. You can not reinvent the wheel . All the moves have been done before.

CMA has always been an MMA.

Absolutely correct. So then why are you trying to "figure out" something from your own style when the answers are out there right now being used by people who are proficient in it already? The human body can only be used so many different ways, why does it matter what "style" a move comes from?

At one time Shuai Jiao /Chiao li / etc. had kicking / punching/ throwing and grappling. Notice that the grappling is after the throwing?? To me this is an indication that Chin Na can be done on the ground after the person has been taken down. I have never heard , except from MMA guys and CMa guys who only learned CMA on a superficial level, that Chin Na is only used standing up and that there are no strategies for groundfighting ( grappling/ striking).

Is it not Tim Cartmell who in his new book shows early 20th century Chinese doing ground grappling??

I was taught CMA groundfighting over 17 years ago.

Yep...Shuai Jiao was the predecessor to all of this stuff in my opinion--to Judo and Jujutsu. I've used my chin na in that BJJ class that I took in Florida and people were like WTF?! Because I improvised using what i knew at the time to try and survive in my new environment. They'd never seen a wrist lock done on someone in there since they focus on large joint manipulation as opposed to small joint.

sanjuro_ronin

03-25-2008, 10:30 AM

Sorry If I offended you with saying that wing chun had no defense for the tackle. But since you would like to know my qualifications and why I said it, I'll oblige.

I've trained in martial arts since I was 5 years old. I'm 31 now. My first style was karate, my first black belt was in TKD. In my teen years, my training focused on fighting styles then like wing chun, boxing, and muay thai; and by the way to this day--those are my longest practiced and strongest skillsets. I've got experience from a number of wing chun people/systems and also a couple of different thai coaches. But from there I started to learn a lot of traditional chinese shaolin martial arts. Jingang Quan and Wu xing Chuan. In the process learned lots of chin na, shiua jiao, tai chi, and weapons. I actually preferred Sanda the best...because we were able to incorporate all the prementioned in a full contact arena where I could use the strikes AND throws. Anyway...since MMA was becoming even more popular, I decided it was time to learn some ground game, because a smart fighter stays with the times and adapts to his or her surroundings. I learned BJJ for almost a year, mainly to keep myself out of trouble so I could get back to my own preferred methods. Now I maintain my wing chun, boxing, and muay thai for the most part.

You see, I've been a mixed martial artist see well before being an mma'er was popular. I've trained in a number of wing chun schools and from a number of lineages. None had a defense for the takedown other than stay away or rotate out of the way. None really worked because one theory was contradictory to the wing chun method of shooting in, and the other just simply didn't work.

Just in case you didn't know, most traditional arts were also formulated from mixing martial arts. None of it is pure my friend. So adapting outside your system or adapting your current system is simply evolution and improvement. The pragmatic process has been lost somewhere though...probably when teachers wanted to retain students and keep them under contract and so someone started talking crap about loyalty to the system and everything can be found in the forms bull. Be loyal to yourself, because it's only you that's going to determine the outcome of any of your fights.

I don't know of ANY PRACTICAL MA teacher that is against his or her student learning other systems to "fill in the gaps".
Cross training and mixing MA is the life blood of practical fighting arts and always has been.

History has taught us that.

Mr Punch

03-25-2008, 06:08 PM

And how many NHB fights have you seen with a BJJ guy taking down a Wing Chun guy??... And that unless you are doing Muay Thai and BJJ then you will never be able to defend yourself and are just a larpist , right??:rolleyes::eek::rolleyes:You've got good points, but the evidence is overwhelmingly in favour of MMAists so far... I put this down to logical (sparring, full contact etc) training, conditioning and strength combined with the skills: so it really is a question of logic and not a denigration of CMA in any way. But that's just me.

To say that CMA does not have any answers to all the NHB / UFC/ WEC/ BBJ way of fighting is just stupid.I don't see anyone claiming that on this thread, but please, by all means, do continue with your programmed knee-jerk rant! :p :D

But no, most of you do not have that kind of patience and understanding...Now who's jumping to conclusions and making baseless presumptions about who's training what...?

Is it not Tim Cartmell who in his new book shows early 20th century Chinese doing ground grappling??Cool, I haven't seen it yet, but I've heard a lot about it and it sounds great... looking forward to it. He is, as I'm sure you know, in a distinct minority in CMA circles, and you can't really compare his techs to BJJ and MMA grappling. Not because they're faulty, but simply in terms of numbers. I'd love to go to one of Tim Cartmell's seminars and learn some of his stuff, but living in Japan, it's not that likely: and ask anyone which they have more access to; JJ, wrestling or CMA grappling, and I know the answer you'll get.

You're getting over-defensive: like I said, it's not a qualitative judgment necessarily, but a purely quantative one. For now, I've got two questions:

1) How many front tackles does he/you have? (Since that's the subject of the thread...)

2) How do they compare technically to BJJ/wrestling ones?

Oh, and chill. :)

Mr Punch

03-25-2008, 06:18 PM

Thank you for the answer but I'm not going to post on this forum again if the members here will not treat each other with dignity and respect and speak in a civil manner.Bye!

But before you go:

...The fact of the matter is, not every system has the answer for every attack. So the solution is, to find a defense that works, regardless of where it comes from. Although I personally think that trying to confine one's defenses to a particular system is stupid and dangerous, I will give a pointer on it.

Simply try having a wrestler, or BJJ'er, or MMA'ist friend come at you over and over again. Try using different wing chun techniques, be it the chain punch, a knee, the YGKYM rooting and some attack, a step away and redirection, or whatever you want. Be pragmatic about it and see if it works.

Then, try the defense the way the guys that defend against it all the time do. In other words, try the defense that other wrestlers, BJJ'ers, or MMA'ists do.

See what works for YOU, and stick with it. Loyalty to your style or your teacher is all well and good; but only you are going be responsible for protecting yourself...your grand sifu isn't going to walk around with you to protect you. So my advice is to get as good at wing chun as you desire. Focus on it your whole life if you want, but try and understand the dynamics of it, and don't be afraid to acknowledge it's design limitations (in addition to it's strengths). Honesty is the best policy when talking about fighting. Over-confidence is a killer.

Long story short: just about every martial arts system is simply a quid pro quo method. You give up learning x skill to learn y skill. The reason is because most systems are based on a particular area that the founder was especially good at, thus the reason why the style became popular.

Good luck!

So far, noone has helped me at all.Saying this, after Vankuen's long, helpful, detailed and impartial post is just plain ol' ill-mannered, pal.

That's good advice, thank you Sanjuro.Let's see... sprawl, train with people who sprawl and practice takedowns...? Hmm, nothing that hadn't already been said, which you'd have noticed if you hadn't been so busy pulling your thong out of your ass-crack.

Thank you for the answer but I'm not going to post on this forum again if the members here will not treat each other with dignity and respect and speak in a civil manner.So, in conclusion: practice what you preach and **** off until you can treat others with dignity and respect and speak in a civil manner, you pompous ass... :D :D :D

Mr Punch

03-25-2008, 06:19 PM

Good luck with the 'anti head-dives.' I'm sure you'll be the hero of your third cousin's wedding when your drunk Uncle Earl takes a dive at you from 7 feet away, passing out before he even gets to you.

"Cousin Dude! Where did you learn to fight like that?"

"Its a Wing Chun thing, you wouldn't understand."LMAO... that was funny!

Mr Punch

03-25-2008, 06:22 PM

I don't know of ANY PRACTICAL MA teacher that is against his or her student learning other systems to "fill in the gaps".Oh come on, you haven't been out enough to meet the vastly superior-numbered IMpractical MA teachers???! :D

Cross training and mixing MA is the life blood of practical fighting arts and always has been.

History has taught us that.Again, people's definitions of practical are the moot point.

And I'm afraid you'll find many people were skiving off the history lessons...

sanjuro_ronin

03-26-2008, 04:14 AM

You're getting over-defensive: like I said, it's not a qualitative judgment necessarily, but a purely quantative one. For now, I've got two questions:

1) How many front tackles does he/you have? (Since that's the subject of the thread...)

2) How do they compare technically to BJJ/wrestling ones?

Oh, and chill.

I have the book in question and it shows some standing and grappling moves that are found in wrestling and judo/jujutsu, which makes sense on many levels, from tha fact that the human body works in finite angles and the fact that grappling moves are consistent through the various cultures.
Tim is a BJJ Black Belt by the way.

sanjuro_ronin

03-26-2008, 04:15 AM

Oh come on, you haven't been out enough to meet the vastly superior-numbered IMpractical MA teachers???! :D

Again, people's definitions of practical are the moot point.

And I'm afraid you'll find many people were skiving off the history lessons...

LOL, you are right, I don't know of any MA teachers that are against cross training, maybe I should get out more.

Mr Punch

03-26-2008, 08:17 AM

I have the book in question and it shows some standing and grappling moves that are found in wrestling and judo/jujutsu, which makes sense on many levels, from tha fact that the human body works in finite angles and the fact that grappling moves are consistent through the various cultures.
Tim is a BJJ Black Belt by the way.Cool.

So, maybe you can answer...

1) How many front tackles does he/you have? (Since that's the subject of the thread...)

2) How do they compare technically to BJJ/wrestling ones?

monji112000

03-26-2008, 09:17 AM

Cool.

So, maybe you can answer...

1) How many front tackles does he/you have? (Since that's the subject of the thread...)

2) How do they compare technically to BJJ/wrestling ones?

Everyone knows the best answer to a tackle or a shoot(they are not the same WTF?) is to run away. If you can't run then drop to a low horse stance. Try to channel your chi into your legs. This is what the BJJ schools do, they just don't want anyone to really know. The sprawl is a term Eddie Bravo coined after watching allot of CMA fighters. Redirecting , head control, distance, and timing are all myths. Just Run away... or pull out a gun and shoot him. thats what I do all the time in the gym.

sanjuro_ronin

03-26-2008, 09:53 AM

Everyone knows the best answer to a tackle or a shoot(they are not the same WTF?) is to run away. If you can't run then drop to a low horse stance. Try to channel your chi into your legs. This is what the BJJ schools do, they just don't want anyone to really know. The sprawl is a term Eddie Bravo coined after watching allot of CMA fighters. Redirecting , head control, distance, and timing are all myths. Just Run away... or pull out a gun and shoot him. thats what I do all the time in the gym.

Ninjas have been sent to dispatch you for revealing the ancient Gracie secrets.

sanjuro_ronin

03-26-2008, 09:54 AM

monji112000

03-26-2008, 12:49 PM

sanjuro_ronin

03-26-2008, 12:55 PM

http://www.uechi-ryu.com/videos/u_tech2.html

click on the shoot demo clip, the 13th clip

http://fileserver.uechi-ryu.com/videos/shoot.wmv

No_Know

03-30-2008, 06:58 AM

High charge or in your comfortzone,perhaps (http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=19651152)

Lower shoots or charges...work in progress (http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=19982541)

Just seems relevant to the first post of this thread (http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=19981790)

Some might say some such.

I No_Know

jackmcmanus21

04-01-2008, 01:51 PM

I'll stick with the sprawl....you can also do a variety of chokes from a sprawl as well. I've always found it as the best defense against most kinds of front tackles

HardWork8

04-10-2008, 07:46 AM

When discussing other styles of martial arts with my Sifu, we spoke of Brazillian JuJitsu and how they charge straight at their targets tackling them and taking them to the ground.

Obviously for a Wing Chun pracitioner, this is not where we want to be.
Any thoughts as to a good tactic to counter a front tackle? My Sifu showed me one but it doesn't seem to work for me.

I saw this one on youtube.com and it seems to be rather good:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=FtXNPI7YFf0

Thoughts?
Does anyone have any better tactics for a front tackle?

Before I give my advice I would suggest that you ignore the forum retard and anyone else that is being rude to you.

Now, believe it or not there are Wing Chun lineages that practice ground fighting. It is not common to the Hong Kong lineages, but is present in the mainland chinese lineage that I practice.

I will not be able to give you advice on the ground fighting, because I am not at that level of training yet, but I can give you some anti takedown advice.

First of all if you want to prevent yourself from going down, you need to improve your striking yes YOUR STRIKING. Some of the strikers who lose to grapplers, do so because they are lousy strikers and not because they are lousy at grappling.

How many times have seen a grappler brush off the striker's strikes as if they were mere mosquito bites just before or even during the shoot?

Why? Primarily because the striker had not even managed to master his striking techniques before entering the combat.

Let me give you another example, there are many so called Tiger Claw practitioners, who couldn't claw their way out of paper bags. Why? Because, they practice their art superficialy, that is they learn the forms and perhaps do some "hop around" sparring, a la kick boxing and that is it.Real Tiger Claw practice involves turning your "claws" into lethal weapons.

Just as real Wing Chun practice involves turning your fists and palms into effective weapons, by gaining the ability to not just hit hard but with PENETRATIVE force. And that is just what real iron palm training all about.

How do you increase you striking effectiveness? Well, I don't know your level of training but I would say that you need to start praciticing your principle strikes (including the palm strikes), through thousands of times of repetition. At first practice by "hitting" the thin air only.

This will help to loosen your tendons and articulations. In time work the repetions up to 10,000 or more. You will be imprinting these techniques in your subconscious as well as developing "heavy hands".

While you have move up the number of repetitions, then start your iron palm training. In the old days kung fu fighters put great emphasis on iron palm training and the reason is that "stopping" power doesn't just come from wishing for it.

If you are serious about iron palm then ask your sifu and if he is the real deal then he will be able to recommend you a working training program.

Suffice to say, that if you not only hit like a sledge hammer but also with great speed AND from a relatively short distance, then you will be harder to take down.

Assuming that one has the stopping power then he can try something like the following example of being "charged":

Be in a position when you seem to be "offering" a leg to the grappler. As he goes for it, then pull back the leg, turning almost half circle, bridging the head with one hand while striking the side of the head with a palm strike or the back of the head with a hammer fist or chopping strike. A more skilled technique would be to sink the elbow in the back of the neck.

Again, for this to work you need to have the POWER and to PRACTICE it regularly.

I hope that my advice was at least partially relevant to what you were looking for.:)

sanjuro_ronin

04-10-2008, 07:51 AM

You really should train with decent grapplers.

HardWork8

04-10-2008, 07:52 AM

Now for the rest of you guys.

James O started this thread with a genuine enquiry. This resulted in a couple of retarded idiots, who wouldn't know real kung fu if it fell on them, coming out with rude remarks and the rest of you just buried your heads in the sand as if nothing had happened.

Shame on you!

HardWork8

04-10-2008, 07:53 AM

You really should train with decent grapplers.

You really should train with decent kung fu men.

HardWork8

04-10-2008, 07:54 AM

Actually, start with some decent kung fu women, and them work your way up. We wouldn't want you to get hurt now, would we?

sanjuro_ronin

04-10-2008, 07:55 AM

You really should train with decent kung fu men.

There you go again, seriously, you give crap advice based on what?
7 tears of training with who exactly ?

Drake

04-10-2008, 08:19 AM

sanjuro_ronin

04-10-2008, 08:41 AM

I don't know how MMA guys do their tackles, but what's keeping you from pek choi'ing the back of their neck when they come at you? Or lau kiu'ing an arm and then pek choi'ing their neck? Or just using an aikido tech and letting them throw themselves? Never tried the last one, but I've seen it work.

A well paced tackle or shoot (mostly shoots are used) is not a single attack, but usually done off either a fake or as a counter or as part of a combination of moves.
Its difficult at best to meet a tackle head on and while pivoting and angling are ideal, doing that when you DON'T know a tackle is coming is, to say the least, difficult.
Countering an attempted take down is like countering any other move, no one is just gonna throw a left hook at your head, they will throw it in a combination of moves or as a counter, so to think you can do A to counter B is silly because it doesn't take into account what happens before, during and after the event.

Don't know how clear that was...

HardWork8

04-10-2008, 09:04 AM

There you go again, seriously, you give crap advice based on what?

Based on real kung fu, which is something that you apparently haven't come across in your MA journey.

7 tears of training with who exactly ?

With REAL kung fu sifus and not with pseudo kungfu/kickboxers.

And as I said before and that any real martial artist should appreciate, it is the quality and not the quantity.

And then, how the hell am I going to explain kung fu quality to people who crosstrain kung fu with TKD and 10 other MAs at the same time?

For gods sake.

sanjuro_ronin

04-10-2008, 09:30 AM

Based on real kung fu, which is something that you apparently haven't come across in your MA journey.

With REAL kung fu sifus and not with pseudo kungfu/kickboxers.

And as I said before and that any real martial artist should appreciate, it is the quantity and not the quality.

And then, how the hell am I going to explain kung fu quality to people who crosstrain kung fu with TKD and 10 other MAs at the same time?

For gods sake.

Names?
Any ??

HardWork8

04-10-2008, 09:52 AM

Names?
Any ??

You will not recognize the name of the sifu I am currently training with. So what difference will it make if I give you his name?

On the other hand my Wing Chun sifu's name will appear on the site very soon when one of his students posts the details of his Siu Lam Wing Chun London Seminar.

Be patient.

sanjuro_ronin

04-10-2008, 10:01 AM

You will not recognize the name of the sifu I am currently training with. So what difference will it make if I give you his name?

On the other hand my Wing Chun sifu's name will appear on the site very soon when one of his students posts the details of his Siu Lam Wing Chun London Seminar.

Be patient.

What are their names and how long have you trained with them ?

HardWork8

04-10-2008, 10:17 AM

What are their names and how long have you trained with them ?

I can say anything in the forums. You will not be able to varify them either way. They are not sifus that are known by people such as yourself, so giving their names will be irrelevant.

My main kung fu style is Wing Chun and that is what I have most understanding and experience of and as a result that is what most of my forum input is concerned with. You will know soon enough about my Wing Chun school details.

sanjuro_ronin

04-10-2008, 10:24 AM

I can say anything in the forums. You will not be able to varify them either way. They are not sifus that are known by people such as yourself, so giving their names will be irrelevant.

My main kung fu style is Wing Chun and that is what I have most understanding and experience of and as a result that is what most of my forum input is concerned with. You will know soon enough about my Wing Chun school details.

If they would be unknown to me, what's the problem?
Names and how long you have trained with them?
I am sure there are a few here that are curious as to your qualifications to give advice on WC matters, especially over those that have decades in the system, so , names and how long have you trained?

HardWork8

04-10-2008, 10:38 AM

If they would be unknown to me, what's the problem?
Names and how long you have trained with them?
I am sure there are a few here that are curious as to your qualifications to give advice on WC matters,, so , names and how long have you trained?

Since, as you correctly pointed out that I advise on WC MATTERS, then my WC training is what is the relevant experience and not my other kung fu styles.

My experience in WC is no secret. The other kung fu systems that I study are my business and are kind of like aces up my sleave, so I don't wish to reveal that to anyone.

especially over those that have decades in the system

Those decades don't mean a thing if they have trained in McKwoons and you know that. They don't mean a thing if these "experts" come up with idiotic comments such as, "Siu Nim Tao is useless";"kung fu forms are useless"; "chi -kung training is useless"; "There are no internals in kung fu" and other immortally idiotic comments.

sanjuro_ronin

04-10-2008, 10:44 AM

Since, as you correctly pointed out that I advise on WC MATTERS, then my WC training is what is the relevant experience and not my other kung fu styles.

My experience in WC is no secret. The other kung fu systems that I study are my business and are kind of like aces up my sleave, so I don't wish to reveal that to anyone.

So who is your WC Shifu and how long have you trained with him?
"Aces up my sleeve"..Dude...seriously.

Those decades don't mean a thing if they have trained in McKwoons and you know that. They don't mean a thing if these "experts" come up with idiotic comments such as, "Siu Nim Tao is useless";"kung fu forms are useless"; "chi -kung training is useless"; "There are no internals in kung fu" and other immortally idiotic comments.

Context is everything.

HardWork8

04-10-2008, 11:06 AM

So who is your WC Shifu

As I said before, info regarding his soon to be held Seminar here in london will appear on this site soon and then you will have your info.

However, if this info for whatever reason doesn't appear here, then I will refer you to a link where you can see the relevant info.

and how long have you trained with him?

You already know how long I have trained Wing Chun and you have even referred to it condecendingly in some of your previous posts in other threads.

"Aces up my sleeve"..Dude...seriously.

You wouldn't have made that remark if you had any notion of what real kung fu can entail. I am not saying that you are a bad martial artist, all I am saying is that you don't know your kung fu, beyond a superficial level, that is.

Context is everything.

Yes, lets help this people hide their idiotic approach to kung fu behind "context is everything".

sanjuro_ronin

04-10-2008, 11:09 AM

As I said before, info regarding his soon to be held Seminar here in london will appear on this site soon and then you will have your info.

However, if this info for whatever reason doesn't appear here, then I will refer you to a link where you can see the relevant info.

Fair enough, I guess...

You already know how long I have trained Wing Chun and you have even referred to it condecendingly in some of your previous posts in other threads.

7 years? I wasn't sure that was Total time or with just this system/teacher.

You wouldn't have made that remark if you had any notion of what real kung fu can entail. I am not saying that you are a bad martial artist, all I am saying is that you don't know your kung fu, beyond a superficial level, that is.

You really need to stop making silly assumptions, though they are good for a laugh, they don't really add anything to the discussion.

Yes, lets help this people hide their idiotic approach to kung fu behind "context is everything".

There you go again.

HardWork8

04-10-2008, 11:34 AM

Almost forgot, his website should come on the air soon and when it does, then I will post a link, so that you can satisfy your curiousity.:)

sanjuro_ronin

04-10-2008, 11:36 AM

Did you bring this up on Bullshido a few years ago?
About challenge matches in Brasil and your teacher ( or teachers teacher) was Andri something or other ( sorry, I am bad with names) ?
What that you?
Chinese fist or something like that?

unkokusai

04-10-2008, 11:36 AM

Be in a position when you seem to be "offering" a leg to the grappler. As he goes for it, then pull back the leg, turning almost half circle, bridging the head with one hand while striking the side of the head with a palm strike or the back of the head with a hammer fist or chopping strike. A more skilled technique would be to sink the elbow in the back of the neck.)

Here we go again...

Offering your leg to an experience grappler, unless you happen to be an experienced grappler, is most likely to result in the expected outcome of him taking that leg, despite whatever theories you might be pinning your hopes on.

Folks whose experience with grappling is limited to "You go here, then I go here...wait! I wasn't ready!" 'training' with others in the kwoon just as inexperienced in grappling reinforcing very false expectations about what real grappling is like.

A recipe for disappointment and disaster on wake up day...

unkokusai

04-10-2008, 11:39 AM

unkokusai

04-10-2008, 11:40 AM

There you go again, seriously, you give crap advice based on what?
7 tears of training with who exactly ?

Actually, it was just three years of training. The rest of the time was him 'practicing' all by himself down in the basement.

unkokusai

04-10-2008, 11:41 AM

And as I said before and that any real martial artist should appreciate, it is the quality and not the quantity.

Hahahahaha!

unkokusai

04-10-2008, 11:42 AM

You will not recognize the name of the sifu I am currently training with. So what difference will it make if I give you his name?
.

HAHAahahahahahaaha!

unkokusai

04-10-2008, 11:43 AM

The other kung fu systems that I study are my business and are kind of like aces up my sleave, so I don't wish to reveal that to anyone. .

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHahahahahahahahahaaaahahaha!!!

unkokusai

04-10-2008, 11:45 AM

You wouldn't have made that remark if you had any notion of what real kung fu can entail.

See previous comments (x 10)

HardWork8

04-10-2008, 12:14 PM

sanjuro_ronin

04-10-2008, 12:14 PM

Yes is was. But I wasn't the one who brought up that name.

No, you didn't it was someone else.
I got it now.

HardWork8

04-10-2008, 12:22 PM

See previous comments (x 10)

Not to worry, I've got used to repeating myself with you the forum retard,who doesn't seem to understand simple statements.

By the way, take it easy with those retard pills, you seem to be laughing out needlessly all over the place.

Aren't those retard pills supposed to be administered by professional mental health carers? Or have you managed to break the spastic proof lids on those medicine bottles? You naughty retard.

Now, call that nice man in the white jacket to come over and to detox you, ok?
There you go now, and as always wipe that drool from your mouth.

HardWork8

04-10-2008, 12:23 PM

No, you didn't it was someone else.
I got it now.

Thanks. I appreciate the discretion.:)

unkokusai

04-10-2008, 02:11 PM

Be in a position when you seem to be "offering" a leg to the grappler. As he goes for it, then pull back the leg, turning almost half circle, bridging the head with one hand while striking the side of the head with a palm strike or the back of the head with a hammer fist or chopping strike. A more skilled technique would be to sink the elbow in the back of the neck.)

Here we go again...

Offering your leg to an experienced grappler, unless you happen to be an experienced grappler, is most likely to result in the expected outcome of him taking that leg, despite whatever theories you might be pinning your hopes on.

Folks whose experience with grappling is limited to "You go here, then I go here...wait! I wasn't ready!" 'training' with others in the kwoon just as inexperienced in grappling as they are only ends up reinforcing very false expectations about what real grappling is like.

A recipe for disappointment and disaster on wake up day...

HardWork8

04-11-2008, 04:14 AM

Here we go again...

Offering your leg to an experienced grappler, unless you happen to be an experienced grappler,

What if the one offering the leg is an experienced and powerful striker? I.e. He knows what he is doing?

sanjuro_ronin

04-11-2008, 04:33 AM

What if the one offering the leg is an experienced and powerful striker? I.e. He knows what he is doing?

Two questions:

1- Are you insinuating that all the strikes that have ever fought MMA don't know what they are doing?

2-What grapplers do you train against ?

HardWork8

04-11-2008, 06:04 AM

1- Are you insinuating that all the strikes that have ever fought MMA don't know what they are doing?

No I am not. I may however, be insinuating that most (if not all) so called TCMAs that have fought in MMA did not know what they were doing.

Now, are YOU insinuating that no strikers that ever fought in MMA ever managed to stop a grappler dead cold in his tracks as he was coming in for a take down?

2-What grapplers do you train against ?

I was lucky to have a kung fu brother, who was a good wrestler, here in London in one of the none WC schools that I trained in. He seemed to "approve" of the anti take down techniques. He was good! He would even try to catch sifu out.

A couple of times sifu let the wrestler take him to the ground and made him pay for it there, in the wrestler's own comfort zone, without rolling around the floor for half an hour, I might add.

By the way, sifu = late 50s. Wrestler = mid 30's (I am guessing).

sanjuro_ronin

04-11-2008, 06:11 AM

No I am not. I may however, be insinuating that most (if not all) so called TCMAs that have fought in MMA did not know what they were doing.

Now, are YOU insinuating that no strikers that ever fought in MMA ever managed to stop a grappler dead cold in his tracks as he was coming in for a take down?

I am certainly not insinuating that, I can name a few actually, can you?

I was lucky to have a kung fu brother, who was a good wrestler, here in London in one of the none WC schools that I trained in. He seemed to "approve" of the anti take down techniques. He was good! He would even try to catch sifu out.

A couple of times sifu let the wrestler take him to the ground and made him pay for it there, in the wrestler's own comfort zone, without rolling around the floor for half an hour, I might add.

By the way, sifu = late 50s. Wrestler = mid 30's (I am guessing).

And?

HardWork8

04-11-2008, 07:44 AM

I am certainly not insinuating that, I can name a few actually, can you?

Does it matter if I can name them? Does it alter the facts? Ok then, what about Igor Vovchanchyn (Russia).

And?

And that is it, I train kung fu and not wrestling.

You can crosstrain all you want, but the fact is, if you dedicate 20 years to a dozen(and sometimes irrelevant) marial arts and if you happen to be in a situation where you are facing another man in the street who has dedicated his 20 years learning an authentic "in your face" style of kung fu- in an authentic kwoon, using the authentic conditioning including Iron Palm, Iron Shirt together with hard and soft chi kung - and has mastered that one art in all its aspects.

Then suddenly it kicks off then you have a good chance of having that "cross-training smile" wiped off your face in seconds. THAT IS A FACT!

That is why these arts are still around without them having been major global sports events, sponsored by big money and etc. If trained properly, they do what they are supposed to do. Very efficiently and very visciously.

Having said that I am not at all implying that your chances of winning against that same person would not have been considerably higher in the sports arena.:)

SoCo KungFu

04-11-2008, 08:14 AM

You can crosstrain all you want, but the fact is, if you dedicate 20 years to a dozen(and sometimes irrelevant) marial arts and if you happen to be in a situation where you are facing another man in the street who has dedicated his 20 years learning an authentic "in your face" style of kung fu- in an authentic kwoon, using the authentic conditioning including Iron Palm, Iron Shirt together with hard and soft chi kung - and has mastered that one art in all its aspects.

Crosstraining is not segregative. That is the flaw in your logic. And why you don't understand the concept. Which is ironic because not that long ago you were arguing about which MA lend to better cohesion...

Then suddenly it kicks off then you have a good chance of having that "cross-training smile" wiped off your face in seconds. THAT IS A FACT!

That is why these arts are still around without them having been major global sports events, sponsored by big money and etc. If trained properly, they do what they are supposed to do. Very efficiently and very visciously.

Your perspective is too narrow. These arts are around for a multitude of reasons most of which have nothing to do with conflict at all. They are around because they are a cultural treasure, they are a tradition, they are values, they are continued as a method to healthy living, they are a window into another civilization, they carry religious importance and in some small portion of the total...some use them for the purpose of conflict...and even then the reasons are multiple and vary from one to another...be it to dominate, to protect, even in that with some measure of accepting the deep dark primitive side of ourselves we can find peace, embrace your own demons so to speak....and some are like me...that do them for all the above and at the same time for no other reason that the above are fun..

I don't think you have come to grips yet with your own personal philosophy yet, to be imparting your ideals onto another...

sanjuro_ronin

04-11-2008, 08:20 AM

Does it matter if I can name them? Does it alter the facts? Ok then, what about Igor Vovchanchyn (Russia).

And that is it, I train kung fu and not wrestling.

You can crosstrain all you want, but the fact is, if you dedicate 20 years to a dozen(and sometimes irrelevant) marial arts and if you happen to be in a situation where you are facing another man in the street who has dedicated his 20 years learning an authentic "in your face" style of kung fu- in an authentic kwoon, using the authentic conditioning including Iron Palm, Iron Shirt together with hard and soft chi kung - and has mastered that one art in all its aspects.

Then suddenly it kicks off then you have a good chance of having that "cross-training smile" wiped off your face in seconds. THAT IS A FACT!

That is why these arts are still around without them having been major global sports events, sponsored by big money and etc. If trained properly, they do what they are supposed to do. Very efficiently and very visciously.

Having said that I am not at all implying that your chances of winning against that same person would not have been considerably higher in the sports arena.:)

Funny that you mention IP and chi kung :D
Funny that you mention "authentic "in your face" style of kung fu :D

Those that know me know how truly funny that sounds !
:D

monji112000

04-11-2008, 09:49 AM

Ok...

I will set the record straight...

I am the sifu in question. I did teach him the ultimate anti-grappling style. I call it poking, becouse of the central technique eye poking.

So let it be known, I will be accepting challenges via World of Warcraft only.

I am a dark paladin orc, 5 level mage, and I will give my screen name to anyone who wants to test my anti-grappling skills(Only on World of Warcraft).

Sifu lung dong lip

HardWork8

04-11-2008, 10:15 AM

Funny that you mention IP and chi kung :D
Funny that you mention "authentic "in your face" style of kung fu :D

Those that know me know how truly funny that sounds !
:D

Then please enlighten me.:D

sanjuro_ronin

04-11-2008, 10:19 AM

Then please enlighten me.:D

After your last few posts, and that horrid thread you were involved in on Bullshido, I don't think you are able to be enlightened.

HardWork8

04-11-2008, 10:43 AM

After your last few posts, and that horrid thread you were involved in on Bullshido, I don't think you are able to be enlightened.

I just wanted to know your approach to Iron Palm.:D

sanjuro_ronin

04-11-2008, 10:48 AM

I just wanted to know your approach to Iron Palm.:D

You must be new here.

unkokusai

04-11-2008, 10:55 AM

I was lucky to have a kung fu brother, who was a good wrestler, here in London in one of the none WC schools that I trained in. He seemed to "approve" of the anti take down techniques. He was good! He would even try to catch sifu out.

A couple of times sifu let the wrestler take him to the ground and made him pay for it there, in the wrestler's own comfort zone, without rolling around the floor for half an hour, I might add.

By the way, sifu = late 50s. Wrestler = mid 30's (I am guessing).

Ouch! I am believing you so hard it hurts! :rolleyes:

unkokusai

04-11-2008, 11:01 AM

What if the one offering the leg is an experienced and powerful striker? I.e. He knows what he is doing?

If he is "offering the leg" he better be a grappler or he does NOT know what he is doing.

unkokusai

04-11-2008, 11:31 AM

Then suddenly it kicks off then you have a good chance of having that "cross-training smile" wiped off your face in seconds. THAT IS A FACT!

THAT IS FUNNY! Are you every decade-old kungfu cliche, Basement-Boy?

HardWork8

04-11-2008, 09:25 PM

You must be new here.

Well actually, compared to you I am. So come on, I would like to know what Iron Palm means to you? What is your breathing approach to the methodology?

And how do train it? Hitting the makiwara? The sand bag?

Do you hit the sand grains directly, Or do you crosstrain your Iron Palm with wrestling and just roll in the sand?:D

HardWork8

04-11-2008, 09:33 PM

THAT IS FUNNY! Are you every decade-old kungfu cliche, Basement-Boy?

Hello Forum Retard,

I am sorry that I haven't been paying attention to you recently. I have been very busy posting messages to those nice guys, our forum colleagues. If I don't answer their queries quickly, they get upset. You see, many of them are crosstrainers and hence do not have a lot of patients and can't wait for knowledge to come to them in good time, so being an understanding kind of a fellow, I try to give them priority, when replying to their posts.

Furthermore they have a lot more to say than you do,even if I don't agree with some of their views.

I hope that you do understand and forgive me if I don't just come out and kick your forum butt as often as I used to. However, I know that you cherish the attention so I will do my best to attend your wishes as often as it is convenient to me.

Bye for now, and please do keep wiping the retard drool off your mouth, it is so unbecoming of a "rassler".

HardWork8

04-11-2008, 09:35 PM

unkokusai

04-11-2008, 09:59 PM

You see, many of them are crosstrainers and hence do not have a lot of patients (sic) and can't wait for knowledge to come to them in good time.

LOL! You must be a very valuable $tudent for any $chool offering your favorite flavor of Koolaide! :rolleyes:

HardWork8

04-12-2008, 06:08 AM

Please try and understand my views on crosstraining and the logic behind them by reading my posts more carefuly, on on this thread and "the fighting Wing Chun" one. So that you don't end up making incorrect statements.

As far as the traditional chinese martial arts are concerned and their reasons for survival.
You should know that these arts are MARTIAL ARTS. They were developed at and for times of turmoil, to perform a function and that was to dispatch the enemy as quickly and many times as visciously as possible.

If these arts had not performed these functions, then they would not have survived long enough to become cultural icons or national treasures.

As far as the health aspects are concerned. There are many Chi kung methods and systems that are preserved, independent of the fighting systems.

I don't think you have come to grips yet with your own personal philosophy yet, to be imparting your ideals onto another...

And I don't think that you have come to grips yet with reading and understanding posts to make judgmental and negative comments about me.

By the way, if you are going to continue addressing posts to me, then please do so in a manner where I can quote your relevant statements. Thank you.

SoCo KungFu

04-12-2008, 08:56 AM

Please try and understand my views on crosstraining and the logic behind them by reading my posts more carefuly, on on this thread and "the fighting Wing Chun" one. So that you don't end up making incorrect statements.

How can one logically understand that which has no logic? You start off with how you think cross-training is negative, then you say its good, then you start talking about how masters didn't cross-train while at the same time saying the did. All the while you are mish mashing your views in two different threads...you change your opinion like changing underwear....

As far as the traditional chinese martial arts are concerned and their reasons for survival.
You should know that these arts are MARTIAL ARTS. They were developed at and for times of turmoil, to perform a function and that was to dispatch the enemy as quickly and many times as visciously as possible.

What's your point? Who cares what they were created for 200...300...600 years ago? What does that have to do with today? Riding on the backs of people long dead...one of the main issues with why TCMA is the state its in today. My grandfather, father, uncle all served in the military...as do I...doesn't mean I can shoot a gun to save my life though...(I can...but not without practice)

If these arts had not performed these functions, then they would not have survived long enough to become cultural icons or national treasures.

Family systems...closed door schools....athletic associations....go get an intro to asian studies book and learn up on how much value as a culture they place on family traditions...hmmm tradition...hey isn't that one of the reasons TMA become so popular in the west anyways?

As far as the health aspects are concerned. There are many Chi kung methods and systems that are preserved, independent of the fighting systems.

True but if you are going to speak of TCMA you must also account for the fact that it is inseparable to TCM. To say that TCM hasn't influenced TCMA is not only ignorant but you discredit the very masters you so covet.

And I don't think that you have come to grips yet with reading and understanding posts to make judgmental and negative comments about me.

Negative, maybe...judgmental, no....actually I think its great that you have taken such an interest into MA...I mean you could be out selling dope to kids. But enthusiasm is leading to make the same mistakes that have been made the past 2 or 3 generations...but if you want that's your decision...

By the way, if you are going to continue addressing posts to me, then please do so in a manner where I can quote your relevant statements. Thank you.

Copy and Paste...cross-train that with your quote function

HardWork8

04-12-2008, 09:37 AM

If you read my previous posts carefully, then you will see that any mish mash regarding my statements is purely in your mind.

No one is riding on the backs of lond dead masters. We are however trying to learn from them through their arts. If you don't see any significance in that approach then why do you practic kung fu? Or do you practice a modernised pseudo-kung fu?

As far as martial arts surviving just for the sake of tradition. You are wrong there again. Try to understand that things do not become traditions over night. And to not disappear "overnight" they will need to perform the fuction for which they were designed. After performing that function for centuries then they have become part of the tradition.

Do you believe that anyone in china can go to the government and say. Hello my family and I just invented a new fighting system can you declare this a cultural heritage and treasure? Of course, not even you will believe that.

Your example of your grandfather or other family members being in the military was a bad one. It really was.;)

And here you miss the point about TCMs, they would exist independent of Kung Fu, if that was the case. Or do think that all Chinese medical practitioners are somehow required to study kung fu.

Anyway, as the case it they both work and perform the function they were designed for.

As far as selling dope goes. I was never ever in danger of getting involved in that kind of business. I am happy to leave the dope selling to our security agencies (CIA et al) who seem to be doing a grand job of poisoning our youth.

Copy and Paste...cross-train that with your quote function

As I have said before, I don't like to crosstrain in irrelevant things. So why don't you post your statements like everyone else and save us all a lot of hassle.

SoCo KungFu

04-12-2008, 10:11 AM

If you read my previous posts carefully, then you will see that any mish mash regarding my statements is purely in your mind.

I haven't been kicked in the head that many times...nice try though....maybe you should be in politics

No one is riding on the backs of lond dead masters.

Quite the contrary...90% of TMA does this very thing

We are however trying to learn from them through their arts.

And you repeatedly fail to grasp one of their greatest of lessons....the story of the 3 young disciples and the willow tree comes to mind

If you don't see any significance in that approach then why do you practic kung fu?

I can and I do....you however, mostly likely a lost cause....

Or do you practice a modernised pseudo-kung fu?

This very statement shows why you failed in to quote you,"learn from them through their arts."

As far as martial arts surviving just for the sake of tradition. You are wrong there again.

If only this were true...

Try to understand that things do not become traditions over night. And to not disappear "overnight" they will need to perform the fuction for which they were designed. After performing that function for centuries then they have become part of the tradition.

To the contrary..there are a number of traditions which serve no purpose to modern man what-so-ever...
And as far as MA are concerned...I can think of 3 people off the top of my head that practiced MA for no reason other than the fact they're dad forced them to when they were young. They have no concern for fighting at all...why do they do it then? Because its in their family history!!

Do you believe that anyone in china can go to the government and say. Hello my family and I just invented a new fighting system can you declare this a cultural heritage and treasure? Of course, not even you will believe that.

Correct, and not that long ago to do so would get you death by firing squad. Another contributing factor to the downfall of kung fu. How do you think a lot of the kung fu now days survived? Because it was pasted down from generation to generation. I'm starting to think you live under a rock somewhere..must be expensive for an apartment in the UK...

Your example of your grandfather or other family members being in the military was a bad one. It really was.;)

You never had a connect-the-dots book when you were a kid, did you?

And here you miss the point about TCMs, they would exist independent of Kung Fu, if that was the case. Or do think that all Chinese medical practitioners are somehow required to study kung fu.

TCM can very well exist on its own....however you're an idiot if you can't see that TCMA would not be where it is today if not for influences from TCM. Evolution...the core to every single thing I just posted. And as to the leap from fighting to health? You see those guys back in the day...they new that most people are probably more likely to die from illness and injury rather than battle wound. So they made sure that even though the resources available for the average man were limited, they did the best they could to ensure that their practice not only would help them hopefully defend themselves (though many never fought) but also to stay healthy and live long life. Care to refute this? I guess you believe Buddhism never existed in the Shaolin temple either huh? Now which aspect do you think is more popular now-days? Fighting or health? Need help? Look at Taiji...

Anyway, as the case it they both work and perform the function they were designed for.

They did, but like anything they must evolve....and that requires those involved to do so as well....this is what everyone here is trying to tell you

As far as selling dope goes. I was never ever in danger of getting involved in that kind of business. I am happy to leave the dope selling to our security agencies (CIA et al) who seem to be doing a grand job of poisoning our youth.

As I have said before, I don't like to crosstrain in irrelevant things.

Yeah judging by those clips of your so called WC groundfighting...I can see you really have an idea about what is relevant

So why don't you post your statements like everyone else and save us all a lot of hassle.

Everyone else? Who do you think I learned to post from? Go practice your webfu

HardWork8

04-12-2008, 10:56 AM

Everyone else? Who do you think I learned to post from? Go practice your webfu

I'll leave the webfu to you and guys like you and the way I see it, that will be the only fu you will be good at.

You haven't told me anything new in your last post. You butted in the thread and got what you had coming.

If you think that I don't believe that kung fu has been evolving for thousands of years and will keep evolving long after we are gone, then you are very confused.

My issue is with people who try to evolve an art after gaining a superficial understanding of it. Now, read that line a few times so you will understand where I am coming from.

You must also make a distinction between tradition that is cultural heritage and tradition that is inside the cultural heritage of that particular family which could be a kung fu style or even shoe makers. Try to make give the correct examples for the correct subjects.

With your remark about tradtitions being passed down the family through generations you are implying the people who made those styles and practiced them were idiots. I will inform you that they are not. The idiots are the people who discount these art as useless ornmants. This shows ignorance and short sightedness.

By the way, the people on this planet who live most under a rock (an intellectual one) tend to be military personnel. Something for you to think about while your are inventing your own modern martial arts style in your garage.

While I did have a book whereby I connected the dots when I was a kid, I did not do it for too long as I was reading books from a very young age, while you still seem to be with your dot dot books. If you like connecting dot then do so regarding a good kung fu school. Believe me, you need one.;)

As far as the groundfighting clips are concerned, the question was wether there was groundfighting training in kung fu and I said yes while some of the others who have "practiced kung fu" (as well as bjj, judo, tkd,karate,wrestling,ju jitsu,FM), said no. So, that is my proof.

If you have technical criticisms regarding any of those schools or masters/sifus, please feel free to go and show it to them in PERSON. It is easy to criticise sitting behind your keyboard.

Again the question was, is ground fighting addressed in kung fu, most of the "experts" said no, and they were wrong.

This has happened to me in another forum as well. First nobody believes it, but when it is proven, they say of but BJJ is better, which had nothing to do with the question in the first place.

unkokusai

04-12-2008, 11:02 AM

This has happened to me in another forum as well. .

Maybe if you weren't such an ******* you wouldn't keep getting run off forums all the time.

HardWork8

04-12-2008, 11:13 AM

Maybe if you weren't such an ******* you wouldn't keep getting run off forums all the time.

OH more stars, it so nice of you my retarded friend. Always sending stars, sometimes referring to me as your champ. You really are a retard with a heart.

While you are here, why don't you try and take down SoCokungfu, just a while back he was looking for a retard to take him down to the ground.

I am not sure of his motivations, but I am sure that the both of you will have a lot of fun rolling on the ground, forever and forever.

There you see I have found a new forum friend for you. If you get to like each other, he may even get to wipe off your retard drool for you.
Now, you'd like that wouldn't you?

SoCo KungFu

04-12-2008, 11:28 AM

I'll leave the webfu to you and guys like you and the way I see it, that will be the only fu you will be good at.

You haven't told me anything new in your last post. You butted in the thread and got what you had coming.

I did?! What'd I win?:p

If you think that I don't believe that kung fu has been evolving for thousands of years and will keep evolving long after we are gone, then you are very confused.

My issue is with people who try to evolve an art after gaining a superficial understanding of it. Now, read that line a few times so you will understand where I am coming from.

Because you truly speak with the deepest levels of understanding...

You must also make a distinction between tradition that is cultural heritage and tradition that is inside the cultural heritage of that particular family which could be a kung fu style or even shoe makers. Try to make give the correct examples for the correct subjects.

With your remark about tradtitions being passed down the family through generations you are implying the people who made those styles and practiced them were idiots.

No...well..some...like the ones that thought their iron vest would protect em from bullets....but what I'm implying is that a family tradition of kung fu may be passed down through from parent to child...and yet said family members may not have fought at all...for generations....

I will inform you that they are not. The idiots are the people who discount these art as useless ornmants. This shows ignorance and short sightedness.

By the way, the people on this planet who live most under a rock (an intellectual one) tend to be military personnel. Something for you to think about while your are inventing your own modern martial arts style in your garage.

Oh wow...nice one...As opposed to say...In my basement? Hey didn't Unko ask you one time if you ever trained in Japan? No right? Hmm I have...I guess I like to take my rock with me....And while I care not to argue the issue with you...because now you are showing you are a royal @$$clown...you think your second hand force feeding of information that you call the morning news is adequate to tell you anything of what goes on overseas? More than those of us that have actually been there seeing it face-to-face?

While I did have a book whereby I connected the dots when I was a kid, I did not do it for too long as I was reading books from a very young age, while you still seem to be with your dot dot books.

ACTUALLY...if you must know...I've moved on to finger painting :D

If you like connecting dot then do so regarding a good kung fu school. Believe me, you need one.;)

Nope nope nope....my kung fu school is at the star that means you finished the picture :)

As far as the groundfighting clips are concerned, the question was wether there was groundfighting training in kung fu and I said yes while some of the others who have "practiced kung fu" (as well as bjj, judo, tkd,karate,wrestling,ju jitsu,FM), said no. So, that is my proof.

The only thing you proved was that your friends are totally inept to ground concept

If you have technical criticisms regarding any of those schools or masters/sifus, please feel free to go and show it to them in PERSON. It is easy to criticise sitting behind your keyboard.

Again the question was, is ground fighting addressed in kung fu, most of the "experts" said no, and they were wrong.

To say that kung fu addresses the issue of groundfighting means that it has found a method which by to render favorable results in resolution of said problem (the fight goes to the ground)....it has done no such thing. The people..do for themselves this...by dah dah dah....cross-training

This has happened to me in another forum as well. First nobody believes it, but when it is proven, they say of but BJJ is better, which had nothing to do with the question in the first place.

For your sake, I really hope you don't have to learn what people are trying to tell you the hard way....

unkokusai

04-12-2008, 03:35 PM

While you are here, why don't you try and take down SoCokungfu

Well, unlike you (100% unlike you) I actually could help him work on takedowns, and without vague references to absent 'masters' or illogical 'proof' of effectiveness by way of ancient history, or secret skills only taught to 'indoor' or 'senior' students or the like.

SoCo KungFu

04-12-2008, 04:19 PM

I actually do need work on me takedowns...the wrestler guys own me in BJJ....

position before submission position before submission.....

unkokusai

04-12-2008, 04:41 PM

I actually do need work on me takedowns........

Remember, a good set-up is more important than speed.

SoCo KungFu

04-12-2008, 04:54 PM

Remember, a good set-up is more important than speed.

I'm starting to realize that...its insane what some of these guys do....

One second they are in your face the next they got your leg. I try to cut em off but the way they can catch a flank and shoot in at your angle. Try to adjust and sprawl cuz thats really the only defense I know at this point but inevitably they can drive through and catch a leg while I have to go back to maintain balance. Next thing I know I'm in half gaurd or side trying to fight off my back.....

SoCo KungFu

04-12-2008, 05:44 PM

unkokusai

04-12-2008, 07:11 PM

Actually I do have a question...
When I can on a stroke of luck pull a half way successful sprawl and manage to keep my legs out of their reach, typically I end up trying to maintain control of the head/neck (that just seems like the only thing that stops their progress). After that though I'm a bit at a loss. It seems like everything I try ends up putting me in a compromised position and then I either have to try and pull into a guard and start from there or else eventually they take hold of something and drop me into a worse position. And being as small as I am...most of em got at least 25-30lbs on me, working under a mount or side is really tough for me now. I just get worn out.

What can I do to try and turn the table so I can put them on the defensive in hopes of catching a dominate position? Unfortunately most of the stuff I've learn thus far deals with once on the ground as opposed to arriving there in favorable positioning.

Wow, a lot of things you can work on from there.

Probably the simplest way at this point to train your finish after you've sprawled is to focus on getting behind him. To do this you need to clear at least one arm as you move around and behind. Easier said than done many times.

One way to do this is to try to take a front headlock after you have sprawled. Try to get yourself out in front of your opponent and take the head and one arm. Of course you need to be aware that this is just where he may be trying to drive through your sprawl, so timing is important. If you are 'spending time' after a sprawl you might be better off with a wizzer, crossface, and slightly off to one side. However, it you want to take the front headlock you'll have to get out directly opposite. By keeping the arm tight to the head with the headlock you can make it easier to clear that arm. Clearning an arm is one of the biggest challenges to getting behind him. It should be easy enough to get the leg on the same side as the arm you have trapped past that arm. To clear the second leg you can sort of open your hips forward and throw that leg behind you such that he will have a tough time catching it as you move past.

A lot of times its gonna end up a scramble anyway. A way to give yourself an advantage as you are trying to move behind is to try and extend the sprawl. Few people who know anything about takedowns are gonna end up completely sprawled out flat on their stomach no matter how well you time the sprawl (despite some ridiculous 'anti-grapple' theoretical defenses), but you can try to get more leverage once you have the front headlock by yanking that head and arm forward and down (and keeping your own hips back) in a really hard, violent motion. This can pull him further out away from his own base, getting his hips ahead of his knees, and put you in a more advantageous position. You have to do it like mean it, or he can just use it to power through your sprawl though. If you time it just right sometimes the exact moment he is reacting to this is when you can make your move to clear the arm and get behind him.

Once you've taken his back you've got lots of options.

There are a load of other ways to try and finish after a sprawl, but this is one orientation you could work on to get yourself into a good position after you've responded to the shot.

HardWork8

04-12-2008, 10:10 PM

Well, unlike you (100% unlike you) I actually could help him work on takedowns, and without vague references to absent 'masters' or illogical 'proof' of effectiveness by way of ancient history, or secret skills only taught to 'indoor' or 'senior' students or the like.

And of course, you would also fit in the category of the "retard" he requested in the first place.

unkokusai

04-12-2008, 10:16 PM

People are actually trying to talk about the topic now, Basement-Boy. Why don't you run along and make a fool of yourself elsewhere?

HardWork8

04-12-2008, 10:17 PM

That is it guys. Turn this kung fu thread into a wrestling thread.

You know, sometimes no matter how hard some of you guys try to intellectualize over kung fu, sooner or later you show your true colors.:rolleyes:

HardWork8

04-12-2008, 10:25 PM

For your sake, I really hope you don't have to learn what people are trying to tell you the hard way....

And for your sake I hope one day you find out how to read posts properly, oh ye master of "Japanese kung fu".

You have understood my posts the way you have chosen to understand them and that is fine. Good luck with your BJJ and make sure your balls don't get in the way when you are rolling on the floor.

By the way, I was on the phone with that chinese master from the video, the one you wouldn't fight if your life depended on it, yes that one. You were right, his hands ARE very small. He did however guarantee that he would have no problems squeezing your brain.:p

zapruder_bjj

04-12-2008, 11:31 PM

And for your sake I hope one day you find out how to read posts properly, oh ye master of "Japanese kung fu".

You have understood my posts the way you have chosen to understand them and that is fine. Good luck with your BJJ and make sure your balls don't get in the way when you are rolling on the floor.

By the way, I was on the phone with that chinese master from the video, the one you wouldn't fight if your life depended on it, yes that one. You were right, his hands ARE very small. He did however guarantee that he would have no problems squeezing your brain.:p

*shakes head* You do realize that people on this board actually know about kung fu right? They actually know about Chinese culture and history....right? You can go blow some smoke up some high school girls bum, and try to get some stinky on that tiny dangle of yours, but here you aint fooling us.

zapruder_bjj

04-12-2008, 11:35 PM

unkokusai

04-12-2008, 11:53 PM

Good luck with your BJJ and make sure your balls don't get in the way when you are rolling on the floor.

Don't you have a time machine to catch back to the 80s or something?

HardWork8

04-13-2008, 07:53 AM

Don't you have a time machine to catch back to the 80s or something?

Time machines exist in the confused minds of retards only.

Having said that and this is serious, so listen, if I needed wrestling advice I would come to people such as yourself who actually know what you are talking about and have the knowledge and arsenal to do what you have to in a ground situation, using your own actual arts. Please give others this credit regarding the practice of their own particular arts.

unkokusai

04-13-2008, 08:07 AM

Interesting that more than a few earnest devotees of kungfu have called your views, claims, and assumptions "into question" (to put it very kindly). Particularly those with much more experience than yourself.

You have responded with whiny, defensive petulance and little else. Like this little gem: "I am too much for you pseudo kung fu pretenders."

........

SoCo KungFu

04-13-2008, 08:10 AM

Wow, a lot of things you can work on from there.

Probably the simplest way at this point to train your finish after you've sprawled is to focus on getting behind him. To do this you need to clear at least one arm as you move around and behind. Easier said than done many times.

One way to do this is to try to take a front headlock after you have sprawled. Try to get yourself out in front of your opponent and take the head and one arm. Of course you need to be aware that this is just where he may be trying to drive through your sprawl, so timing is important. If you are 'spending time' after a sprawl you might be better off with a wizzer, crossface, and slightly off to one side. However, it you want to take the front headlock you'll have to get out directly opposite. By keeping the arm tight to the head with the headlock you can make it easier to clear that arm. Clearning an arm is one of the biggest challenges to getting behind him. It should be easy enough to get the leg on the same side as the arm you have trapped past that arm. To clear the second leg you can sort of open your hips forward and throw that leg behind you such that he will have a tough time catching it as you move past.

A lot of times its gonna end up a scramble anyway. A way to give yourself an advantage as you are trying to move behind is to try and extend the sprawl. Few people who know anything about takedowns are gonna end up completely sprawled out flat on their stomach no matter how well you time the sprawl (despite some ridiculous 'anti-grapple' theoretical defenses), but you can try to get more leverage once you have the front headlock by yanking that head and arm forward and down (and keeping your own hips back) in a really hard, violent motion. This can pull him further out away from his own base, getting his hips ahead of his knees, and put you in a more advantageous position. You have to do it like mean it, or he can just use it to power through your sprawl though. If you time it just right sometimes the exact moment he is reacting to this is when you can make your move to clear the arm and get behind him.

Once you've taken his back you've got lots of options.

There are a load of other ways to try and finish after a sprawl, but this is one orientation you could work on to get yourself into a good position after you've responded to the shot.

Awesome thanks. I think I'm going to focus of working from the headlock first. That seems to be the most natural reaction for me at the moment.
The MT guys tend to afford me more time to think about what I'm doing but the wrestlers....its just too fast.

And I know that's part of my problem. I'm too aggressive sometimes. And that can get me into trouble because I bite their setup and its costs me. So I need to work on that too.

So this week in class I'm going to focus on not getting faked. React to the shot, take the headlock/control the arm. I'm really going to work what you said about the weight and extending the sprawl. Thats probably going to be a big thing for me, leverage and all....I'm already giving up a lot of lbs. to some of these guys so I need to make sure my base is stronger than theirs.

Man I wish I got into wrestling more in HS instead of football. I know a lot of it at this time is just inexperience to this zone. I just tell myself if I can get one more tool a week, it will work out.

HardWork8

04-13-2008, 08:14 AM

*shakes head*

Don't shake your head too much. We wouldn't want your pea-sized brain rolling out of one your ears.

You do realize that people on this board actually know about kung fu right?

Of course there are people on this board who actually know about kung fu,but not as many as you would think.

This board seems to attract a lot of jack of all trades, who have not dedicated enough time to kung fu practice to qualify them to make some of the idiotic and sweeping statements regarding kung fu.

Yes, this forum does attract none kung fu martial artists who are too ready to get in there and have a go on "discussing" kung fu. You, yourself being another prime example. Your qualification: BJJ

Case closed.

They actually know about Chinese culture and history....right?

To "know" chinese culture and history you would need to read books.
To "know" kung fu, you need dedicated practice in an AUTHENTIC school.

You can go blow some smoke up some high school girls bum, and try to get some stinky on that tiny dangle of yours, but here you aint fooling us.

I have no intention of foolin anyone, specially BJJ practitioners and crosstrainers. To each his own. I only take issue when non-kung fu martial artists feel qualified to make sweeping and idiotic generaliztions based on their at best, shakey experience of what they call "kung fu".

The fact that none kung fu people such as yourself, hang around in kung fu forums to "prove" whatever that it is you feel the need to prove, demonstrates that it is not me who has issues with his "dangle".

I am afraid that you fit in this category more than any kung fu poster. You are out of your area here. This is not a bjj thread nor a MMA one. You got some chip on your soldier.

So, I would suggest you go and have your dangle operated, so that in the future you wont feel the need to go outside of your own "gym" to prove yourself.;)

unkokusai

04-13-2008, 08:20 AM

To "know" chinese culture and history you would need to read books.
To "know" kung fu, you need dedicated practice in an AUTHENTIC school.

Says the guy who can barely string a sentence together, and 'trains' all by himself down in his basement.

... :rolleyes:

SoCo KungFu

04-13-2008, 08:33 AM

When you sprawl keep your legs back and your weight on your opponent. If you want to keep the fight standing work a quarter nelson:

http://www.wrestlingcoach.com/****zer_3_quarter_nelson.htm

http://www.lockflow.com/article_view.php?id=3250

You can always just back out and stand instead of turning them or taking them to the ground.

Thanks for the links...I didn't know about those websites. gonna take some time to check em out.

Right now I'm going to try to focus on taking to the ground. It is BJJ class after-all:) I'm really having a lot of fun with the ground game. Most fun I've had getting my @$$ kicked in a long time :D

HardWork8

04-13-2008, 08:43 AM

Interesting that more than a few earnest devotees of kungfu

"Ernest devotees" says who? I have news for you. They can say what they want, but cross training kung fu with another dozen irrelevant martial arts is definitely not a sign of a "devotee" to kung fu. Hence their "confused" comments.

If you are going to train your kung fu in superficial way and as part of a mish mash of martial arts styles, then that is fine. By crosstraining you can feel in the gaps and by live practice you tone your fighting skills.

No arguments from me there. This approach works too. BUT my advice to people who take this approach is: "Don't call what you do kung fu, and don't make sweeping statements about it, as you have not practiced it profoundly".

It works the other way too. I don't know you, but you seem to know your wrestling. If I were a practitioner of wrestling and another dozen arts, then I would not have the specialist knowledge that you presumably have. That means I would be very careful on the types of statements that I made regarding the subject matter, specially if I had the audacity to enter a Wrestling forum to give advice.

have called your views, claims, and assumptions "into question" (to put it very kindly). Particularly those with much more experience than yourself.

Their time of practice is irrelevant, if they have been "learning" kung fu in McKwoon. It is a fact that most kung fu schools are not the real deal, even if some are better than others and can teach you some fighting.

Anyone can tell you that, and percentage wise I am talking about the high 90's. And some of these "experienced" kung fu gurus are the living proof.........

You have responded with whiny, defensive petulance and little else. Like this little gem: "I am too much for you pseudo kung fu pretenders."

........And that make them pseudo kung fu pretenders.;)

Eventhough, the "I am too much" remark, was a play with the wording of the other poster, as you obviously knew, when you quoted me.

unkokusai

04-13-2008, 08:57 AM

Your desperately transparent attempts at fabricating some kind of 'elitism' for yourself (after three whole years of actual training) is just sad, and the more you try to justify it the sillier you make yourself look.

SoCo KungFu

04-13-2008, 09:07 AM

"Ernest devotees" says who? I have news for you. They can say what they want, but cross training kung fu with another dozen irrelevant martial arts is definitely not a sign of a "devotee" to kung fu. Hence their "confused" comments.

San Bao Pai+Hung Gar+now a very small amount of BJJ....that's only 3...I mean maybe math works differently in your world...

If you are going to train your kung fu in superficial way and as part of a mish mash of martial arts styles, then that is fine. By crosstraining you can feel in the gaps and by live practice you tone your fighting skills.

Because you know so much about live practice in your basement.

No arguments from me there. This approach works too. BUT my advice to people who take this approach is: "Don't call what you do kung fu, and don't make sweeping statements about it, as you have not practiced it profoundly".

Interestingly enough...the man that organized the first kung fu system I studied was also a Judoka. Are you going to tell me that after 40 years he doesn't know what kung fu is? Nevermind the fact that worked as a professional body guard.....

It works the other way too. I don't know you, but you seem to know your wrestling. If I were a practitioner of wrestling and another dozen arts, then I would not have the specialist knowledge that you presumably have. That means I would be very careful on the types of statements that I made regarding the subject matter, specially if I had the audacity to enter a Wrestling forum to give advice.

Blind reverence...this is how cults happen...

Their time of practice is irrelevant, if they have been "learning" kung fu in McKwoon. It is a fact that most kung fu schools are not the real deal, even if some are better than others and can teach you some fighting.

Ironically you are part of that same crowd...whether you realize it or not...

Anyone can tell you that, and percentage wise I am talking about the high 90's. And some of these "experienced" kung fu gurus are the living proof.........

........And that make them pseudo kung fu pretenders.;)

Eventhough, the "I am too much" remark, was a play with the wording of the other poster, as you obviously knew, when you quoted me.

Keep it up and you wont get the pink ranger outfit....

HardWork8

04-13-2008, 09:25 AM

:D
Your desperately transparent attempts at fabricating some kind of 'elitism' for yourself (after three whole years of actual training) is just sad, and the more you try to justify it the sillier you make yourself look.

Sillier to whom? The so called kung fu practitioners who don't see the significance of forms practice in kung fu? Who don't know the significance of the internals in kung fu? Who keep searching for aspects of fighting, some of which are present in their core arts, only if they bother to look?

No, I don't want their approval. I just want these type of "kung fu" experts posting in the MMA forums. That is all.

You know that I have more than 3 years under my belt. I have told you that before in other threads. Just like I am telling you now, I continue to train kung fu in a kung school , It is Wing Chun that I train on my own and with my sifu only when I meet him. So my training is 7 years PLUS. You are chosing to ignore those facts to enable you in "confused" mind to score points.

My more than 7 years of kung fu experience is 7 YEARS MORE THAN YOUR EXPERIENCE, yet you feel free to go around the kung fu forums dishing out empty in****s to whoever you please. If this forum was frequented by as many REAL kung fu experts that claim to be experts, then you would have had your butt kicked out a long time ago, by the members themselves and not even by the moderators.

Why, because a lot of our modern "kung fu" fighters relate more to a retarded idiot who doesn't practice kung fu, then to other kung fu people who are here actualy contribute and say something about KUNG FU.

Furthermore, what I say has nothing to do with elitisism and everything to do with AUTHENTISISM. And when it comes to authentisism, then even 6 months of training will put our knowledge of REAL kung fu ahead of pseudo kungfukickboxers, who have practiced for decades.:D

HardWork8

04-13-2008, 09:27 AM

Keep it up and you wont get the pink ranger outfit....

Hey, just an idea, why don't you change your forum name from SoCokungFu to "SoCalledKungFu", as this will better describe your knowledge or more likely the lack of, regarding all things kung fu.;)

HardWork8

04-13-2008, 09:32 AM

Says the guy who can barely string a sentence together, and 'trains' all by himself down in his basement.

... :rolleyes:

Untrue comments (YET AGAIN!).

If you go back and observe a lot of the forum "dialogue" between you the retard and I your therapist;), you will see that you are the one who has problems with stringing sentences.

Your posts are too short and you just pick and chose what to address. I suppose that you are a man of few words, and in your case that comes from being a man of few brain cells.

So, at least your Yin and Yang are in balance.:D

zapruder_bjj

04-13-2008, 10:09 AM

Untrue comments (YET AGAIN!).

If you go back and observe a lot of the forum "dialogue" between you the retard and I your therapist;), you will see that you are the one who has problems with stringing sentences.

Your posts are too short and you just pick and chose what to address. I suppose that you are a man of few words, and in your case that comes from being a man of few brain cells.

So, at least your Yin and Yang are in balance.:D

Your kung fu seems to be about as good as your grammar.

zapruder_bjj

04-13-2008, 10:12 AM

Your qualification: BJJ

Case closed.
WRONG!!!! look at you reading a name and knowing all of my martial arts experience...guess that is another one of your lost kung fu secrets huh?

To "know" chinese culture and history you would need to read books.
To "know" kung fu, you need dedicated practice in an AUTHENTIC school.

How bout go to college, or go to china, what you learn from Ashida Kim is not authentic.

HardWork8

04-13-2008, 10:26 AM

Your kung fu seems to be about as good as your grammar.

How would you know? Mr BJJ? Or maybe your BJJ is as good as my grammar eh?;)

HardWork8

04-13-2008, 10:55 AM

WRONG!!!!look at you reading a name and knowing my martial arts experience.......

I knew all your "kung fu" experience, not by your name only, but also from your idiotic entry into this thread.

But I will add that no person who has seriously trained in real kung fu is going to put bjj at the end of his name and become a member of any KUNG FU FORUM.

It is just like me putting Wing Chun on the end of my name and entering a bjj forum and then start insulting their bjj posters, it is idiotic and you managed that all on your own.

...guess

People like you always end up "guessing" about what kung fu practice entails.

How bout go to college, or go to china,

Why? Did you learn your "kung fu" in a college or was it a shopping mall kwoon? I have a university degree, but thank you for the suggestion.

I have been to Malaysia and have met a master there. He was a good fighter, but an internalist. Is that good enough for your "kung fu-jitsu" highness?

According to some of the Jack of all trades who frequent this forum, this master's internal background would qualify him to be a "fake" or "fantasist".

That is the kind of trash that is being dished out here in the so called "kung fu" forums by people who wouldn't know real kung fu if it fell on them.

One can only imagine the type of negative effect this kind of "advice" has had on people who want to, or are starting their kung fu training.

what you learn from Ashida Kim is not authentic.

I don't know him but as you seem to know him better than me, then I would suggest that you go and train with him.

No matter how bad Ashida Kim is, he will be better than you, that means that it will only improve YOUR lousy kung fu knowledge, which can ONLY improve.

unkokusai

04-13-2008, 11:11 AM

Sillier to whom?

Everyone but you, Basement-Boy.

HardWork8

04-13-2008, 11:15 AM

Everyone but you, Basement-Boy.

You really need to do something about that retard drool dripping from the side of your mouth. But I almost forgot, aren't you supposed to be repeat reading my statements on kung fu, so that your retarded inbred brain will start absorbing the relevant information.

Start now and keep repeating.:D

unkokusai

04-13-2008, 11:16 AM

Awesome thanks.

Let me know when you want to try some other variations.

unkokusai

04-13-2008, 11:29 AM

You know that I have more than 3 years under my belt.

Not reallly. From what you have said, you trained three years before heading to the basement to 'practice' by yourself. Beyond that, if you won't even tell us what this supposed 'other' you supposedly train is, then you can't legitimately lay claim to it.

Oh, and you took a vacation in Malaysia. Good job.

On the other hand, we have folks here with loads more experience who do not agree with your silly, ego-driven attempts at exclusivity, but they are not 'da realz' kungfu according to you. :rolleyes:

unkokusai

04-13-2008, 11:43 AM

If this forum was frequented by as many REAL kung fu experts that claim to be experts

And REAL kung fu experts would just happen to be those who agreed with YOU, right? :rolleyes:

HardWork8

04-13-2008, 11:48 AM

Not reallly. From what you have said, you trained three years

It was actually 3 and half years, but then retards will be retards.:rolleyes:

And I have kept practicing it and maintained my knowledge without sifu except when I have travelled to brasil and of course in a month's time when sifu visits london.

befoBeyond that, if you won't even tell us what this supposed 'other' you supposedly train is, then you can't legitimately lay claim to it.

It is a kung fu style. Happy now? I don't the individual style that I practice now because I don't chose to reveal it. I could however give any style out of the blue and you are saying that this will "legitimise" my claim to it? Boy are you lost.

Oh, and you took a vacation in Malaysia. Good job.
I would have taken you with me, but the thought of sitting next to in the plane and wiping off your retard drool for 18 hours really put me off the idea. Sorry.

On the other hand, we have folks here with loads more experience who do not agree with your silly, ego-driven attempts at exclusivity, but they are not 'da realz' kungfu according to you. :rolleyes:

Yes, they have "more experience" but in what? Their attitude towards kung fu demonstrates a lack of understanding that comes only from training in pseudo kungfu.

First of all there are others in this forum who practice the real kung fu and who chose to, and probably rightly so, to keep out of this type of arguments with the modern crosstrainers.

However, this attitude seems to be giving the modern know-it all "kung fu experts" a free reign to dish out their trash.

I have my post above does not contain too much information for your retarded brain. Why not read a line per day, that way your retarded head will have less chance of exploding from the pressure.

HardWork8

04-13-2008, 11:50 AM

And REAL kung fu experts would just happen to be those who agreed with YOU, right? :rolleyes:

Not necessarilly, but for a start they wouldn't make idiotic and retarded comments about kung fu.;)

unkokusai

04-13-2008, 12:06 PM

And I have kept practicing it and maintained my knowledge without sifu .

All by yourself...

...down in your basement

unkokusai

04-13-2008, 12:18 PM

It is a kung fu style. Happy now?

No, what the hell is it? Highly suspect that you wouldn't even be able to name it, and too stupid and infantile, even for you, that you would feel the need to keep it 'secret.'

SoCo KungFu

04-13-2008, 12:33 PM

It was actually 3 and half years, but then retards will be retards.:rolleyes:

I can see that 6 months is making ALL the difference;)

And I have kept practicing it and maintained my knowledge without sifu except when I have travelled to brasil and of course in a month's time when sifu visits london.

So your sifu is in Brazil? And you are from there also? I think I'm starting to piece you together now. So the reason your panties are all in a twist is because you resent that the ground fighters are getting all the attention huh? Did you lose a fight to one? Maybe a Gracie stole your girlfriend?

It is a kung fu style. Happy now? I don't the individual style that I practice now because I don't chose to reveal it. I could however give any style out of the blue and you are saying that this will "legitimise" my claim to it? Boy are you lost.

I would have taken you with me, but the thought of sitting next to in the plane and wiping off your retard drool for 18 hours really put me off the idea. Sorry.

Yes, they have "more experience" but in what? Their attitude towards kung fu demonstrates a lack of understanding that comes only from training in pseudo kungfu.

So Frank Yee isn't the head hancho in Tang Fung Hung Gar? Daniel Pai didn't head Pai Lum? I guess (and even as much as I disagree with the state of things in the temple) P. Chan isn't the be all and end all of Wah Lum? So all this kung fu is fake? And my sifu trained with frauds? And you figured all this out in your basement huh?

First of all there are others in this forum who practice the real kung fu and who chose to, and probably rightly so, to keep out of this type of arguments with the modern crosstrainers.

Good...unlike you they aren't spouting out crap ideologies

However, this attitude seems to be giving the modern know-it all "kung fu experts" a free reign to dish out their trash.

I have my post above does not contain too much information for your retarded brain. Why not read a line per day, that way your retarded head will have less chance of exploding from the pressure.

I'm really almost starting to feel sorry for you. Smattering you is almost as bad as beating up a guy that can't walk....

unkokusai

04-13-2008, 12:34 PM

no person who has seriously trained in real kung fu is going to put bjj at the end of his name and become a member of any KUNG FU FORUM.

What an unbelievably foolish and irrational comment, even for you.

HardWork8

04-13-2008, 12:38 PM

All by yourself...

...down in your basement

You see, no matter how I explain it , your retarded brain does not absorb it.

But this post is so telling and poetic. Why, what do you know, where the forum retard lacks intelligent and logical sense, he has got that artistic expression.

I just loved that long gap between the few words that your retarded brain came up with.

It is so symbolic and sentimental, that looooooooooong space between the first and last line represents so much of your life's lonliness,emptiness and sadness, and of course on different levels too.

That large gap also represents the empty space between your ears where all those strange voices that don't let you sleep come from....

.

Why, if I had a little extra cash, then I would sponsor you for some arts programs, I believe you could be a pioneer in drool painting.

Again, a truly amazing demonstration of artistry , SPECIALLY for a RETARD!

HardWork8

04-13-2008, 12:42 PM

What an unbelievably foolish and irrational comment, even for you.

Hey, hey,heeeeey! Cool down, relax and ask that nice gentleman in the white jacket to give you some of those nice pills that relax you and stop you crying at nights.

When gives your pills, don't bother swallowing them with water, just use retard drool. You've got it, so use it.;)

unkokusai

04-13-2008, 12:45 PM

You are certainly a master at failing to be funny, I'll give you that much. :rolleyes:

HardWork8

04-13-2008, 01:03 PM

I'm really almost starting to feel sorry for you. Smattering you is almost as bad as beating up a guy that can't walk....

Same sentiments here, except that it is more like beating up a retard who just reads the posts and sees what he wants to see or what his retarded perception allows him to see.

Feel sorry for yourself, just like I do, because no matter how much you pretend to the contrary, the cracks in your kung fu background are showing and mainly from the lack your understanding of the basic points that I am making.

It may not be the fault of your teachers, as it may only be you.

Let me ask you a couple of questions, just to really clarify exactly where it is that you are coming from.

1. Comment on the internal training aspects of what you do.

2. Give me your take on the training of kung fu forms.

3. When you spar, are you rooted or do you bounce around (similar to boxers)?

4. What kind of weight training if, any do you do and is it a common method in your school or is it something that you do on your own motivation?

Your co-operation will be appreciated.

HardWork8

04-13-2008, 01:42 PM

no, no, no! "Qi" blast from 20'; works every time (moron...)

because what would a wrestler know about defending a takedown...:rolleyes:

that's right - if someone isn't nice to you, it doesn't matter at all about the content of what they have to offer: just put your hands over your ears and sing "la la la" as loud as you can

of course, how serendipitous :rolleyes:

that's right - in his rarified system, you only learn useful basic things after you are advanced

oh, yeah - that's really gonna build up striking ability...

and Lord knows, we want our tendons and articulations to be "loose" (whatever that means); actually, if you knew ANYTHING at all about anatomy, you'd know that you can't "loosen" tendons (you can increase the relative elasticity somewhat, but not by doing what you suggest, sorry), and that loosening joints is actually a bad thing, because that creates ligamentous laxity, and that, sorry, is bad;

yes, great idea, imprinting your body how to not counterbalance properly when you actually get around to hitting something solid...

riiiight - because an experienced grappler a) would NEVER understand when he's being baited; b) would have no choice but to be compelled go for it anyway; c) wouldn't have a clue what to do once you pull the leg back away from him; d) wouldn't know what to do when you grab his head; e) would be in total shock that you might actually try to hit him and would sucumb instantly since as a grappler he would have no capacity to deal with impact of any kind;

because unlike in aikido practice, most grapplers actually work on recovering from being off balance as opposed to just going with the flow, and also practice against people who actively resist being off-balanced...

BUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!
so like in a fight, when the chis are down, you whip out your "secret style", and watch as your opponent's face cringes in terror at the oh-too-late realization as to what he is really up against?!?
BUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

there are no "internals"; there are different wasy to train different things; but that's about it; there wasn't even a distinction before Sun Lu Tang came up with the terms to differentiate what he was teaching (read: selling);

no, it's a thread about how to defend against a front tackle in the "Reality" forum; now, if you are suggesting that only kung fu answers to that question should be given, even if they are not the most effective means of dealing with that, then you probably need to go back to the Temple and spend a few more years staring at the wall...

I know that you being here has not caused that number to increase, that's for certain

and you have trained how long again?

read books make Grog head hurt...

well, I've trained with one or two "authentic" Chinese teachers in my life (I guess that would explain why I had to learn to speak Cantonese); spent a lot of time in their homes "training"; it's was really nothing at all like what you describe though; guess it wasn't "authentic" (and we didn't read many books either...)

here's a question: when everyone else around you is "wrong", and you are the only one who is "right", doesn't that start to get you thinking? even just a little bit?

I would suggest that you go back and read some of the points made by me and see wether they are so out of this world, without your tinted glasses of course.

Then if you feel so inclined come back and post more trash, then do so by all means.

I will also say that you don't know about the Wing Chun that I practice, so I would suggest that you don't make any ignorant comments about it.

The training of tendons and striking power has been around long before when you were in your dipers. If you don't agree with it then it is your right (and perhaps your problem as well).

The reason that Wing Chun grappling is taught relatively late in the curriculum is so that the student having learnt how to fight standing up in the wing chun way, using its principles and concepts, can transfer it easier to the ground and fight within the same principles. That explanation should even make sense to someone such as yourself.

Wether you like it or not, internals (without the mumbo jumbo) exist in kung fu.

I am a member of an authentic kung fu school, wether you like it or not. Making idiotic comments aimed at me puts your quality of training more in question, than mine.

I will just add that there are people here, my forum retard friend Unkokusai comes to mind, that make a habit of making rude remarks to anyone they choose and so please don't jump to conclusions too quickly.

HardWork8

04-13-2008, 01:45 PM

why don't you answer the same questions as well while you are at it?

your co-operation would be unexpected...

You have butted in with a heavy set of assumptions and what seems to be a heavy chip on your shoulder. I can't post messages to a dozen retards at the same time. Wait your turn.

unkokusai

04-13-2008, 02:32 PM

So the conclusion, once again, is that only the great HardheadIQof8 has 'teh realz' kungfu and everyone else just doesn't get it...

:rolleyes:

SoCo KungFu

04-13-2008, 02:38 PM

The training of tendons and striking power has been around long before when you were in your dipers. If you don't agree with it then it is your right (and perhaps your problem as well).

Idiot...muscles stretch they are the elasticity in your structure. Tendons and Ligaments do not (or rather not supposed to)...Power is developed by strengthening tendon and muscle groups.

The reason that Wing Chun grappling is taught relatively late in the curriculum is so that the student having learnt how to fight standing up in the wing chun way, using its principles and concepts, can transfer it easier to the ground and fight within the same principles. That explanation should even make sense to someone such as yourself.

Except that you have no idea just how intensive ground work becomes. You have absolutely zero perspective on how to conceptualize a ground method. It is NOT the same as on your feet which not surprisingly you also have no idea towards...

Wether you like it or not, internals (without the mumbo jumbo) exist in kung fu.

I am a member of an authentic kung fu school(Located in your basement), wether you like it or not. Making idiotic comments aimed at me puts your quality of training more in question, than mine.

I think a half-blind chimp could pull more from quality watching a bruce lee dvd than what you seem to have a grasp of...

I will just add that there are people here, my forum retard friend Unkokusai comes to mind, that make a habit of making rude remarks to anyone they choose and so please don't jump to conclusions too quickly.

You repeatedly show you not only have no clue about how grappling can play out, but also you have absolutely zero grasp of your kung fu as well. Even those of your own system have left you out to dry. What does that tell you? Go find a real instructor and do some real work....ie..not in your basement.

HardWork8

04-13-2008, 03:15 PM

You repeatedly show you not only have no clue about how grappling can play out, but also you have absolutely zero grasp of your kung fu as well. Even those of your own system have left you out to dry. What does that tell you? Go find a real instructor and do some real work....ie..not in your basement.

I made some valid points and yet you decide to come out and be abusive. I tell you what, why don't you be a nice boy and run along answer those questions that I posted to you and then we'll talk. Actually, before you do that take a cold shower to cool you down.

HardWork8

04-13-2008, 04:09 PM

I did; all of it (I want my 10 minutes back, BTW); without glasses; that's why I posted, because you continually make the most ridiculous points

Or maybe you are not capable of understanding those points.

um, never said you couldn't develop tendon power, you can - it's basically by increasing the ability of the tendon to store more power only stretch and to release it more efficiently on recoil (some people call that plyometrics, BTW);

What you more or less described works even better when there is a linking of tendons across the body. It takes years to achieve this kind of linking but it can give you a lot of power (just in case you didn't know, which you probably didn't,this kind of linking also comes under the internals).

you were talking about "loosening" tendons - which demonstrates that you are totally ignorant of their structure and function, and talking about loosening articulations (joints) which is just plain stupid;

I was talking about loosening tendons in a manner that you obviously haven't heard of and are therefore ignorantly refusing to believe in its existance. This type of loosening achieved through the exercises described contribute immensley to instant generation of hand speed and its contribution to power.

Ok, here we go, I can feel it coming now, oh yes here it is,"but, I have never heard of this so it must be crap!"

no, actually, it makes no sense, because it's not hierarchical: ground fighting and stand up are two distinct skill sets with only a minimal degree of carry over; if you have done both, you'd know that; training one does not prepare you for the other: by that logic, anyone who trains wrestling should be able to pick up standing skills no problem, which we know is not the case either

It makes no sense to you and that is because perhaps you crosstrain in two separate arts one is stand up and the other groundfighting. Whereas, Wing Chun ground fighting is part of this art and there is methodology behind it. If you don't understand that then I am afraid that it is your problem.

puhleeze - it's just silly semantics; "internal" is simply a way of training awareness of body structure that focuses more on one methodology thatn another (more later if you want on that)

All that plays its part, however, some masters may disagree with your limited description of the internals,but they can take that up with you personally if they care, which I very much doubt.

no, it just means that I am insulting you gratuitously because you adopt this semi-Confuscian-like attitude, getting all noble and rightous and what not and it makes you appear very pompous, which is always fun to trash;

I am sorry that you feel that way. I have made a lot of valid points that somehow your radar managed to miss. That means you are here just to attempt and "trash" me, perhaps to score points with some of the other "kung fu" experts here.

Ironically, you are the one who is looking pompous, and if you don't watch out you are going to get your forum a$$ well and truly trashed.

it has nothing at all to do with the quality of my training;

As far as I am concerned it does.

oh wait, unless you are one of those freaks that thinks there is this underlying morality to martial arts that without which, what you have learned is without any merit; are you one of those?

Actually. I believe that there is an underlying morality to living life, but then you wouldn't know about that would you? To find out about such things people like you would need to crosstrain in some weird religion.

oh please, please be - it'll make it so much more fun to chase you around the playground with your little lower lip all a-quivering...

You flatter yourself. I have never in my life, presumably unlike you, been chased around the playground, and I am not about to start at the age of 45. So, if you are going to try and play the bully be ready to count your forum teeth that will be flying in all directions.

You have made a lot of incorrect assumptions about me. You see, the problem (your problem) is that you are trying to act intelligent without having the necessary faculties, so that means that you lose before you even start. You just don't know it yet.

so he's rude; whatever - he also happens to make some excellent points; if he hurt your feelings, I'm sure mommie will be happy to have you come 'round and visit her to cry about it

If you bother to look else where in the forum, then you will see that right now,it is his feelings that are hurt, and who knows, you might be next.;)

no, I've based all my comments on the drivel that you post;

Drivel may be in the eye of the beholder, base on his lack of knowlegde and personal prejudices (Yes, I am talking about you).

the only retard here, using a term you seem so desperate to imprint on anyone who doesn't share your pink-colored-sky worldview (which is basically everyone with whom you have exchanged posts), is you

I don't imprint that term on just anyone, only those who act like retards, take a hint?.

no! what are you, nuts? do actually you want him to come out of the basement?!? oh, the humanity!!!

If you have read my posts as carefully as you say you have, then you will know that I don't have a basement. There, you see my point about retards now?

Well, it is late now, and I have given enough attention to all the attention seeking lonely retards in internet land who practice "kung fu". I am off to bed now, do make sure you take your medication y'all.

Bye for now;)

SoCo KungFu

04-13-2008, 04:38 PM

You want to know what I think of your questions...they show how little you actually understand...

It may not be the fault of your teachers, as it may only be you.

You can't even come close to same league as my teachers. You are a small man, claiming to see the top of a mountain yet you only just now start at its base...you walk in the snow yet you have no coat...you see a wolf yet have no gun....as you walk you repeatedly ignore the signs that you are ill prepared to continue...

Let me ask you a couple of questions, just to really clarify exactly where it is that you are coming from.

1. Comment on the internal training aspects of what you do.

There's an entire thread where I as well as others stated our opinions of the matter...do a search...but I don't think you have it in you to understand the concept.

2. Give me your take on the training of kung fu forms.

Are antiquated...at worst they are the last best thing in training how to be a functional fighter. At best they are just a way for an old man to remember a bunch of moves that he no longer needs...but hey at least they pass the time...and are more fun than running...I guess they are useful if you only are able to practice by yourself...like say...in a basement..

3. When you spar, are you rooted or do you bounce around (similar to boxers)?

You are completely ignorant of what is involved in boxing technique...

4. What kind of weight training if, any do you do and is it a common method in your school or is it something that you do on your own motivation?

Oh my the next idiotic thing you are going to say is that you get all the strength training you need from your forms right? Here's a hint for you though...my classes are inside a gym...

Your co-operation will be appreciated.

There you go...your turn

SoCo KungFu

04-13-2008, 04:40 PM

no! what are you, nuts? do actually you want him to come out of the basement?!? oh, the humanity!!!

You're right....what was I thinking...

SoCo KungFu

04-13-2008, 05:05 PM

well, stupid is as stupid does - meaning if you are exposed to such cretinous mindlessness for any period of time, your critical reasoning eventually suffers; I am sure that I can count on you to bring me back to my senses in the event that I too am temporarily overcome...

I will do my best....

Thing is...I really hope he is back on tomorrow...its really...the only thing that will make a boring day at the office go by.....:D

unkokusai

04-13-2008, 06:07 PM

Oh, he'll be back. He's convinced himself he's doing well, no matter how deep a hole he keeps digging for himself. :rolleyes:

SoCo KungFu

04-13-2008, 06:52 PM

Oh, he'll be back. He's convinced himself he's doing well, no matter how deep a hole he keeps digging for himself. :rolleyes:

Maybe he'll have another message from the "master" he seems to know so well....

Samurai Jack

04-14-2008, 03:07 AM

Wow! Such a spirited debate on the Street/Reality forum! This just had to have been moved from another thread.

My take on all of this is probably a little different, but I think it's worth pointing out:

The problem with the idea of trying to deal with an attacker who tackles you in any system BJJ, kungfu, boxing, wrestling, whatever is the same.

You gave the fight to your opponent the instant you gave him the opportunity to be the aggressor.

It dosen't really matter what system you study, it's tough to deal with a flurry of blows, a kick, a tackle, a throw, or any other sort of attack because it's AN ATTACK.

By the time you see it coming, it's probably too late to formulate a way to "deal with it".

The reason is simple. In order to throw an attack, all that needs to happen is the nerve impulses to perform the action need to go from the brain (which already made the decision) to the muscles. Meanwhile the "defender" must first sense the attack, he must then recognize it for what it is, his brain must formulate a response, then send a signal to his muscles to take action. Throw an adrenaline dump into the mix, which creates a whole 'nother set of haywire messages which are likely to slow most people down further still (despite popular belief, 99% of the time adrenaline dosen't make you faster), and you can see why most shoots, and most preemptive strikes are successful.

So why not turn the tables on the guy? Once you've made the decision to get involved in a physical altercation, it's always best to immedeatly take the offensive. That means if you do wing chun, you start punching the guy, and if you do BJJ, you go for the shoot.

HardWork8

04-14-2008, 05:04 AM

HardWork8

04-14-2008, 05:37 AM

You want to know what I think of your questions...they show how little you actually understand...

And that shows how little YOU understand the traditionaly approach.

Question 1: NOT answered! Questions: 3 and 4: NOT answered! Not to worry because the answer I was looking for is heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere:

Questions 3 and 4: NOT answered,but not to worry, what I was looking for is HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERE:

Question 2: Kung Fu forms are "antiquated". That comment is really revealing and extemely funny, not that you have not made me laugh before.

It is very humorous, to see you mentioning some "heavy duty" kung fu names in your lineage and therefore associating yourself, even if it was indirectly, with these masters, who I presume are the real deal and not glorified kickboxers such as yourself. Then, you say that forms are antiquated!

I wonder how Frank Yee, Daniel Pai and P.Chan would react to your idiotic remark that kung fu forms are "antiquated.....at best a way for an old man to remember a bunch of moves"?????? It seems that you are digging your own "basement" with every post, jealous eh????LOL.

You have asked me before if I thought the aforementioned people's kung fu was fake and I would say probably not, but your kung fu, my dear boy is FAKE!

You have practiced it superficially and it shows. It is all in your comments.

So, go back to your punch bag and your grappling classes and don't for get those weights, for those big muscles you so like to show off to those other guys in the gym.

There you have it ladies and gentlemen and this is the source of our little "problem". I am a traditionalist and a lot of you guys are not. So our approach is different. So, we argue and argue and argue and argue and argue.......:rolleyes:

sanjuro_ronin

04-14-2008, 05:44 AM

There you have it ladies and gentlemen and this is the source of our little "problem". I am a traditionalist and a lot of you guys are not. So our approach is different. So, we argue and argue and argue and argue and argue.......

You say you are a traditionalist, how so?

SoCo KungFu

04-14-2008, 06:33 AM

And that shows how little YOU understand the traditionaly approach.

Funny...you don't even know what the "traditional" approach really is..

Question 1: NOT answered!

Sorry if I choose not to spoon feed you, I really don't want to type up two pages just for your behalf. I could get better results teaching taiji to my dog

Questions: 3 and 4: NOT answered! Not to worry because the answer I was looking for is heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere:

The answer is there, you just can't understand it....

Questions 3 and 4: NOT answered,but not to worry, what I was looking for is HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERE:

Question 2: Kung Fu forms are "antiquated". That comment is really revealing and extemely funny, not that you have not made me laugh before.

I'm glad...do you know how many calories you burn just from laughing?

It is very humorous, to see you mentioning some "heavy duty" kung fu names in your lineage and therefore associating yourself, even if it was indirectly, with these masters, who I presume are the real deal and not glorified kickboxers such as yourself. Then, you say that forms are antiquated!

And I find it funny, that you seem to claim a place beside them in their traditional kung fu, yet you assume that all they can teach is forms.

I wonder how Frank Yee, Daniel Pai and P.Chan would react to your idiotic remark that kung fu forms are "antiquated.....at best a way for an old man to remember a bunch of moves"?????? It seems that you are digging your own "basement" with every post, jealous eh????LOL.

Master Yee probably wouldn't say much of anything...from what I understand he's not the "hold your hand" type. Daniel Pai is dead, but from your response I can see you know nothing of the man anyways...I can tell you though he's probably laughing at you from his grave..and just to indulge you...he'd probably make me fight you...and buy me a beer after I wooped you up to his liking.... And MC Chan....he'd just as soon yell at you for wasting his time as he'd yell at me for saying anything. Besides, you haven't the faintest clue of the situations with that system anyways. There is a distinct reason as why their kung fu is different from yours...the same reason why their students...if I may be so bold...are better than you...And I'll give you a hint...you don't get it by doing forms all day long by yourself in the basement...

You have asked me before if I thought the aforementioned people's kung fu was fake and I would say probably not, but your kung fu, my dear boy is FAKE!

If that's not an example of a pot and a kettle...

You have practiced it superficially and it shows. It is all in your comments.

So, go back to your punch bag and your grappling classes and don't for get those weights, for those big muscles you so like to show off to those other guys in the gym.

There you have it ladies and gentlemen and this is the source of our little "problem". I am a traditionalist (you are nothing of the sort) and a lot of you guys are not. So our approach is different (You're right...theirs works and yours doesn't). So, we argue and argue and argue and argue and argue.......:rolleyes:

No....you argue while we laugh and laugh and laugh and laugh at your expense....idiot...

HardWork8

04-14-2008, 06:44 AM

evidently a "problem" I share with everyone else on here...

Maybe the saying,"the world is full of nuts" holds true for the forums as well?

"linking" of tendons? ok, go ahead, explain your little pet theory; let's see if it's something extra-special like the rest of what you post...so go ahead - please enlighten us in terms of the biomechanics involved in the metaphor of "tendon linking" :rolleyes:

Very condecending attitude and quiet ignorant as well. I just wanted to know if you knew of this training method, which to be honest is not really associated so much with wing chun, but more so to some other Southern styles. I see that you have absolutely no idea of what I am referring to as I 've seen your forum eyes rolling, so no need to confuse you more. That is it, go back to pumping weights.

well, if its a manner that I haven't heard of then it must be really super ninja-secret,

There we go again, something that is very common among you glorified kickboxers,"I haven't heard of it before, so it doesn't exist or is crap,etc.etc."

because it has nothing to do with what tendons do; please, elucidate to us all how you will "loosen" a tendon? and I don't mean by doing the exercises you proporte to work: I mean physiologically - what changes in a tendon to make it "looser" after you've done your 10,000 reps in the air?

Go and do your own research. I am having enough trouble clarifying simple statements to some of you retards and I am not about to go into explaining complicated training methodologies, which you won't even understand simply because your training approach is so different, even if it is valid in its own right (for kickboxing and not kung fu).

However, if you don't believe in it then that is fine as well, because you will always have your weight training and your heavy punch bags.

no, not true - it's not whether I've heard about it, it's whether it flies in the face of the accepted research on a topic as well as my personal experience working with the body

Are you referring to Western research or the Eastern one?

nope, not my problem, because it works just fine for me; it's gonna be your problem when you start doing groundwork and realize just how clueless you really are

That is part and parcel of training. The same thing happens when one starts his realistic sparring and finds out how clueless he is. This doesn't mean that one has to start sparring and grappling from day one.

Traditional kung fu has a methodology to it as devised by kung fu (not glorified kickboxers) masters who dedicated their live's to their particular system(s). There is a reason behind the way it is taught.

However, if you wish I can pass your suggestions to my sifu, but I am warning you, all he'll do is to send you some chinese herbal retard pills.

my description is limited - because I didn't go into a full one, derrrr

That is not all that is limited with you, but I'll let it go.

ino; you just write dumb stuff

No, you just read with dumb eyes (think about that statement carefully, without over-straining your fragile brain, we don't want any nasty spillages).

no, it's not pompous - it's belligerence - can't you tell those apart?

I can, the question is wether YOU can, when you are making your condecending (and idiotic)posts.

and yeah, I'm really worried about my forum a$$, LOL

You would if you had any brains.

there is no morality to living life - life is lived regardless of a given construct of "appropriate" behavior; morality is about making it more convenient to live life in the same space as other people when resources are limited;

Why don't you make that "philosophical" statement in an army recruiting office. I am sure within days you will be in iraq, torturing and taking pot shots at civilians.

BUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Easy now with the retard pills now.

Grog not know big words, make head hurt to think so hard...

What, you are death too? I SAID EASY WITH THOSE RETARD PILLS!

oh yeah, I'm sure that he's really smarting :rolleyes:; and yeah, I'm really worried about it myself, LOL

Actually, you should just WORRY about your own retard medication. Unkokusai is beyond help (please, don't tell him that as he still lives in hope of recovery), but there may be a chance to save your last few brain cells.

yes, I do have this prejudice against blatant stupidity; nasty habit, that...

Then you must really hate yourself.

You like me, you really, really like me!!

Yes I like you. I really like you to jump off a cliff.

I was under the impression that the "basement boy" was a metaphorical description of your state in life in general

At first that was what I thought too, until I realized that the phrase was first coined by a drooling spastic retard. Then I said to myself, no retard can come up with a "metaphorical" description of anything.

So this statement is more of a metaphorical clutching at straws used by retards in general when they are having their collective and mentally challenged forum butts kicked. A very interesting phenomenom, if I do say so myself.

try not to fall out and hit your head again; and remember, lights off, then start self-molesting ('cause no one wants to see it); and make sure you get a good night's sleep, because tomorrow you have your appointment at the oral-facial surgeon, he's got to pull out the rest of those crooked teeth that just get in the way of you eating your jello and apple sauce

There again, you have to do something about the dosage of your retard medication. Try some traditionaly chinese medicine because this modern stuff is no good.

I mean first it made you think that you actually possessed kung fu knowledge and now it is making you hallucinate, you sad person.

HardWork8

04-14-2008, 07:19 AM

Sorry

Don't be sorry. It is not your fault. You were just born that way.

I really don't want to type up two pages just for your behalf

Why, haven't you heard of the enchant art of summerizing? Well you haven't of course, and that is because you are a modern sort of fellow, aren't you?

I could get better resuts teaching tai chi to my dog

From the type of kung fu that you have demonstrated to me, I believe and this is an honest belief, that your dog can teach you more tai chi than you can ever hope to teach it.

I find it funny,

Then you would, because you are retard and retards generally laugh a lot out of context and at things they don't understand. So don't worry, I wont hold that against you and besides, you are in good company.

...that you claim your place besides them in traditional kung fu

FALSE STATEMENT! I didn't made that claim, YOU DID! You, Mr "forms are antiquated" Retard.

..yet you assume that all they can teach is forms

FALSE STATEMENT! I have never made such an assumption. If you say I have, then please show us where.

Traditional kung fu training gives high regard to the training of forms, which are included in a holistic program that includes, sparring, iron palm and the internals, etc. KICKBOXING DOESN'T!

Are you beginning to understand now? No? Not to worry, take a few more of those retard pills and lie down.

As far as your masters are concerned, you know how they would react to your "forms are antiquated" comment. You can babble whatever you want, but if you had dared to make that comment to any of their faces, they would have kicked your crosstraining A$$ out of the kwoon.

No....you argue while we laugh and laugh and laugh and laugh at your expense....idiot...

Actually, I think behind your laughter you are all "crying", but do continue with your "laughter" , it is very sureal to see a bunch of retards laughing/crying together.

By the way, let me know if your dog needs any help in teaching you some tai chi "tricks".

SoCo KungFu

04-14-2008, 07:41 AM

Don't be sorry. It is not your fault. You were just born that way.

Hmmm...and I thought it was the paint chips

Why, haven't you heard of the enchant art of summerizing? Well you haven't of course, and that is because you are a modern sort of fellow, aren't you?

If I were to summarize it, you then wouldn't understand...because that would then require you to go out and actually learn some A&P, some knowledge of medical practice and of course...learn some real kung fu...other than practicing by yourself....in the basement....

From the type of kung fu that you have demonstrated to me, I believe and this is an honest belief, that your dog can teach you more tai chi than you can ever hope to teach it.

I haven't demonstrated anything to you...as to my dog...he's quite the bit more qualified than you...interesting enough...it can be argued that animals have the most exacting mechanics of movement you can find...relating to their evolutionary purpose of course...but we know evolution is a concept you are struggling with so lets stop here in that discussion

Then you would, because you are retard and retards generally laugh a lot out of context and at things they don't understand. So don't worry, I wont hold that against you and besides, you are in good company.

So now my bovine friends suffer from a mental handicap as well? What did cows ever do to you for such criticism?

FALSE STATEMENT! I didn't made that claim, YOU DID! You, Mr "forms are antiquated" Retard.

Judgement based on your understanding of what you think is TCMA. You only trained in forms....in your basement...so its only a natural assumption that this is what you would think a "traditional" master could teach...since you know...you have NO place in actually commenting on real live training.

FALSE STATEMENT! I have never made such an assumption. If you say I have, then please show us where.

Traditional kung fu training gives high regard to the training of forms, which are included in a holistic program that includes, sparring, iron palm and the internals, etc. KICKBOXING DOESN'T!

Forms serve a purpose...nothing more...they are not an encompassing aspect of an art...but then your sifu isn't "traditional" so you wouldn't know that...You claim to learn mechanics through a form...sifu taught me mine by hitting sh!t

Are you beginning to understand now? No? Not to worry, take a few more of those retard pills and lie down.

As far as your masters are concerned, you know how they would react to your "forms are antiquated" comment. (You're right I do...that's why I train with their system) You can babble whatever you want, but if you had dared to make that comment to any of their faces, they would have kicked your crosstraining A$$ out of the kwoon. Quite the contrary...see my sifu is a realist...he is the one that encourages me to speak my mind and question everything...something you still haven't moved onto yet...since you seem to be needing to be waited on hand and foot....and your fear of training outside your circle for then you would know the flaw of your ways...hence your isolationist approach to your training, your fear of bestowing credible source of education and your infantile understanding of what you so profess to hold the holy grail

Actually, I think behind your laughter you are all "crying", but do continue with your "laughter" , it is very sureal to see a bunch of retards laughing/crying together.

By the way, let me know if your dog needs any help in teaching you some tai chi "tricks".

My dog is quite well off...I mean he can lick his own balls...now if THAT'S not internal training I don't know what is...

sanjuro_ronin

04-14-2008, 08:51 AM

My dog is quite well off...I mean he can lick his own balls...now if THAT'S not internal training I don't know what is...

Rotflmao !
Chi blast for the win !

unkokusai

04-14-2008, 10:28 AM

Why, haven't you heard of the enchant art of summerizing?

What is your first language?

SoCo KungFu

04-14-2008, 12:28 PM

Dang cjurakpt, you had to go out and get all educational...:D

And I was having so much fun talking about my dog's balls :D

I think I pulled my brain muscle....

I've already had to look up three more definitions just from your posts in this thread alone...;)

sanjuro_ronin

04-14-2008, 12:33 PM

SoCo KungFu

04-14-2008, 01:47 PM

I bet right now he's Wikipedia'ing his little heart out...

Better be careful...he might call his master on you...try and show you some Wing Chun groundfighting. Apparently he has some sorta secret squeeze your balls technique...

SoCo KungFu

04-14-2008, 08:20 PM

anyone out there? (http://www.naturesongs.com/cricket1.wav)

Hmmm I think we can just about close the coffin on this thread...

unkokusai

04-14-2008, 08:53 PM

I think y'all scared him away.

HardWork8

04-14-2008, 09:00 PM

riiight - you want to know if I know what you know, etc. etc.; ok, let's try this again: please describe what you specifically mean by "tendon linking"; since you actually don't physically connect tendons, it's obviously a metaphor and in all likelihood it's related to some sort of approach to increase continuity of movement and power transfer in the body; the rolling eyes were in context of the fact that you apparently don't get that you don't actually link them, it's metaphorical; in fact, in TCM methodology, tendons, muscles and ligaments all fall under the classification of sinews: there is no differentiation between contractile and non-contractile tissue; when you don't have a microscope, this lack of specificity is understandable, so you use a metaphor

I believe you have just (at least partly) answered your own question about the tendon "loosening" exercise. Go through what you wrote again and you will see.

no, has nothing to do with being a glorified kickboxer (I do not and never have kick boxed);

Are you trying to imply that you are one of the rare people here that has had the attention span to memorize the Siu Nim Tao form?

it has to do with the fact that I am a physical therapist with 15 yrs. experience and a specialization in orthopedics and osteopathic manual therapy, so I've actually spent more than a few moments surfing Google for anatomical definitions; and I have done extensive personal research on muscle physiology and function; so if I haven't heard of it by now, it does raise an eyebrow with good reason (and BTW, I have also studied the issue from a TCM perspective as well, and am well aware of the definitional differences)

again, I have done my research, more than you probably ever will; you obviously have not if you think that a tendon can "loosen"; now mind you, the training you describe can certainly increase the feeling of being "looser", but it's got nothing to do with any sort of physiological changes in the tendons per se (it's actually has to do with proprioceptors and agonist / antagonist reciprocal inhibition - maybe those words are too big for you to understand, but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt here)

now, if you want to disagree with me on this point, please, by all means do so - but just saying I am a retard won't cut it - provide some evidence or at least a plausible theory on why you believe tendons "loosen", as opposed to changes in muscle function

Again, you have more or less answered your own question on the loosening of "tendons". I won't say anymore as I want to see just how much you actually know about this subject and to be honest I really believe that if you just do a couple of re-reads of what you yourself have written, then you will see at least most of the answer and you will hopefully understand that it has nothing to do with "ninjas".

all this means that, if you want to say "tendon lossening" from a TCM perspective, that's fine, but you may as well use the term "muscle" or "sinew" or "ishcabible", because from a direct observational perspective, the term is inappropriate

There you go again. The sifu who introduced me to that concept is chinese (and also happens to be a TCM, but not herbalist healer).

so please, while I am interested in your perspective, let's try to be civil:

OK. Lets try and be civil.

also, if you are a priori rejecting the so-called "western" perspective, then we have nothing to discuss

I am not rejecting the western perspective, but I will tell you that it does not provide answers for everything medicine (nor martial arts training for that matter).

you should go read up on your motor learning theory / research, in terms of what constitutes a skill set and what happens when you try to transfer skills from two significantly disparate ones; basically, when you change the contextual parameters significantly enough (e.g. - biped versus ground-based function), it turns out that the skills that help you succeed in one area can actually be detrimental to progress in the other; it has nothing to do with so-called "kung fu" principles, it has to do with how the learned motor responses carry over under varying degrees of contextual interference; I know this must all sound very retarded to you, but trust me, it's really more about your own perceptual apparatus...

As far as I am concerned it is logical to teach the standing up aspects of an art such as Wing Chun which happens to be primarily a striking art. To teach this the sifu or the master has to also imprint the concepts and principles of this art into the student's conscious. Once the student has gained a satisfactory level and understanding of the art then he is introduced to the ground fighting, which still uses the Wing Chun principles on the ground. Eventhough I am not at this level of my training, I would guess that certain techniques will have to be adapted and necessary changes of methods imprinted into the student's mind. I can't tell you more than that. However, I can tell you that coming out and making condecending remarks about this lineage's training methods is not right either.

This lineage was not designed by me. It was designed by Wing Chun masters who knew a lot more than you and I and probably a lot more than any WC exponents we have come across. So, please reserve your negative remarks for after you train in this system. If you don't train it ever, then let it be.

Now, before I forget. I practice the tendon linking exercises in my none Wing Chun school here in london. Here is the scene, my first few classes and sifu tells me that the exercises are strange and boring, but that they will help to link your tendons and some other aspect that I wont go into. He attempted to explain more but in the same breath he said that I wouldn't understand it until I did it for a while and he was right. Now many months later I am beginning to understand.

So if you think that I am even going to explain it to you guys, you must be joking. You don't seem to know anything about it and that is with all of your experience and qualifications in this area, imagine the rest of the people here(some of whom still don't comprehend the significance of forms training in kung fu).

Even I am just beginning to understand this type of training. However I have seen the effects of it with sifu and the senior kung fu brothers.

So let it be. Maybe it wasn't meant to be for you. It probably was not meant to be for me either, because I will be leaving london in a few months and I don't think that I will be coming across that kind of a training any time soon. Seriously, it seems that you are happy with your martial way and that is the important factor.

I stated that I mentioned this to you, to see if you (or anyone else) had anything knew anything about this type of training.

Well, sifu was right. He said that it would be difficult to even find references in kung fu books. He believed that any reference found in books would be very superficial.

I'll just say this a lot of (not everything) what is called internals is connected to this area of training unlike the Anal Chi balls that were taught to SoCoKungFu, by his Sifu Woofy.

It feels so good to be "civil" again.:)

Drake

04-14-2008, 09:02 PM

I'm just wondering... why on earth would someone NOT reveal their style they've trained in? I'm a student of CLF. Ahhh... feels good to say it...

HardWork8

04-14-2008, 09:05 PM

I think y'all scared him away.

You are flattering them, aren't you?:D

unkokusai

04-14-2008, 09:11 PM

I'm just wondering... why on earth would someone NOT reveal their style they've trained in? ...

A mighty good quesiton.

HardWork8

04-14-2008, 09:12 PM

What is your first language?

My first language is chinese and I know you personally.

I am one of the chinese doctors who met you while you were in china. I tried and tried so hard to train you in drool control and failed. Do you know how many of my shirts your drooling ruined?? But did I care, no. Because I wanted to help you and I failed, I FAILED!

I have been feeling guilty since, but please, please, please, you must try chinese acupuncture,I am sure that it will cure your drooling.

As far as your trolling is concerned well.......................................:D

unkokusai

04-14-2008, 09:27 PM

My first language is Chinese ......................................

It certainly isn't English.

HardWork8

04-14-2008, 10:31 PM

You really haven't really answered any of the questions and are hiding behind stupid comments. Yes, keep hiding behind your dogs anus.

but we know

Who is we? You and Sifu Woofy, your tai chi teacher?

evolution is a concept you are struggling with

I wasn't struggling with it until I came across YOU and some of the other UNDER-EVOLVED retards in this forum. Meeting you has turned my understanding of evolution upside down.

I mean, your dog actually teaches you tai chi?

So now my bovine friends suffer from a mental hadicap as well?

No, not your bovine friends. I was referring to your forum friends. Leave the bovines out of the conversation. They suffer enough just being your friends. I bet it is hard for them to get intelligent conversation when you are around. And I suppose, straight answers are just a BIG no no.

What did cows ever do to you for such criticism

They just keep lousy company. Are you the only person in the ranch?

You only trained forms...

FALSE STATEMENT AND A BLATANT LIE! Can you direct me to where I made such a statement?
NO YOU CAN'T, CAN YOU MR RETARD? AND THAT IS BECAUSE MOST OF YOUR MAIN COMMENTS HAVE BEEN BASED ON LIES AND YOUR MISREPRESENTATIONS!

Forms serve a purpose

Wow! Did you come up with that by yourself? It seems that your "traditional" training has taught you a thing or two, eh?. However, did your drooling partner Unkokusai help you with that comment, as well?

I know for a fact that when you 2 wrestle and roll on the hills and of course drool over each other you end up bonding.

You go through brain storm.......no,no that is scientifically impossible for you....yes I got the phrase now, it is, "drool storming", two or more retards come up with ideas by interacting.

they are not an encompassing aspect of an art

Who said they were? Forms are however a fundemental part of training ENCOMPASSING many levels of understanding and are part of a whole that includes,sparring, Iron Palm etc.

sifu taught me mine by hitting sh!t

Wow, is that a new take on Iron Palm? You should try to hit the sand instead of the sh!t. It will make your claim of practicing traditional kung fu slightly less "smelly";)

My sifu is a realist

What about your sifu's masters? Yes, the ones that you so happily and proudly named.

Go and make your retarded jokes about chi f.art$ and other comments like that with them and you will see that they can also be "realists" and will "really" kick your a$$ out of the Kwoon. YOU KNOW IT!

Mr "forms are antiquated but I am traditional", what a joke. Comments like that must really upset your Sifu Woofy.

My dog is quite well off

Really? You must be paying him a lot of money for your tai chi lessons.

Now, either Sifu Woofy is a lousy teacher or you are a lousy student. Wait a minute, why am I blaming that poor dog? The poor soul must be suffering enough trying to teach you tai chi WITHOUT TEACHING YOU THE FORMS LOL!LOL!

We all know that "SoCalledKung Fu" doesn't like forms. All those sequences and the coordinated breathing confuse his mind. Oh god, why couldn't his brain be as large has his balls?

Well they say that the lord works in mysterious ways. He gave you a small brain and large balls, but he gave you A DOG, Sifu Woofy, who presumably has smaller balls but a larger brain than yours. TCMA are right. There is a balance in everything.:D

...I mean he can lick his own balls...

I bet so can you.

And you do it regularly too. I suppose, it beats practicing all those complicated forms, eh?
But don't worry, one day you will meet the right retard, sorry, lady and all that will change and you will have more time to practice your forms.

now if THAT'S not internal training I don't know what is...

Well at least you have managed to answer another one of my questions from my previous post. The one about the internals.

Yes, that remark has shown how traditional your approach is.:rolleyes:

Well it seems that Frank Yee has taught you well about the internals of Hungar. I bet he will be very proud of your take on Chi Kung.

HardWork8

04-14-2008, 10:34 PM

It certainly isn't English.

Of course it isn't. Are you a retard or something?

UNKO, that was a trick question,LOOOOOOOOOOOL!

HardWork8

04-14-2008, 10:35 PM

It certainly isn't English.

Of course it isn't. Are you a retard or something?

UNKO, that was a trick question,LOOOOOOOOOOOL!

HardWork8

04-14-2008, 10:37 PM

I'm just wondering... why on earth would someone NOT reveal their style they've trained in? I'm a student of CLF. Ahhh... feels good to say it...

I am a student of Wing Chun. It feels good to say it too.

unkokusai

04-14-2008, 11:53 PM

Ok, so we see the great wisdom that a total of 3 years of WC and too much time alone in the basement get you.

-Stupid assumptions (and NOTHING else) about grappling

-A **** attitude

-Utter ignorance concerning human physiology

-An inability to string together a sentence in the English language

-A callous and completely unfunny attitude toward disabled people

-A sense of 'humor' that falls flat every time without exception

Drake

04-15-2008, 12:50 AM

I'm no expert or even novice at Aikido. It's just every demo I've been to shows them doing these crazy techs to throw off would-be grapplers. Yeah, I know it's set up and the attacker is moving like a crazed wildebeest, but there must be SOME value to this stuff.

I still say a well-placed pek choi (assuming all things are equal) would end an attempted tackle rather quickly. But as with all things, this is determined more by the skill of both fighters, and not the moves themselves.

unkokusai

04-15-2008, 12:57 AM

I still say a well-placed pek choi (assuming all things are equal) would end an attempted tackle rather quickly. .

Can we get a vid or detailed description of that in context?

Drake

04-15-2008, 01:31 AM

Can we get a vid or detailed description of that in context?

Ok, say you are going for a tackle, which, like I said before, being unfamiliar with the MMA style of tackle, would put you below shoulder level in the typical application. This would expose the back of the neck, and a pek choi (a downward type of hammer fist) would be very damaging. So, using my theoretical defense, a redirect of the attack/sidestep and a solid pek choi would end the match. This is all speculation, as a good offense would likely disable the arms as a counteroffensive via avenua of attack or type of tackle. I just don't see how you'd prevent the back/top of the head and/or neck from being exposed to a strong downward strike.

unkokusai

04-15-2008, 02:35 AM

Ok, say you are going for a tackle, which, like I said before, being unfamiliar with the MMA style of tackle, would put you below shoulder level in the typical application. This would expose the back of the neck, and a pek choi (a downward type of hammer fist) would be very damaging. So, using my theoretical defense, a redirect of the attack/sidestep and a solid pek choi would end the match. This is all speculation, as a good offense would likely disable the arms as a counteroffensive via avenua of attack or type of tackle. I just don't see how you'd prevent the back/top of the head and/or neck from being exposed to a strong downward strike.

Ok, so if you were to work out with some dedicated grapplers you would understand how low the likelihood of that sort of thing working really is. Takedowns by experienced grapplers often are determined in a fraction of a second, and the difference between action and reaction alone make it unlikely. Add to that the fact that any grappler worth his salt is going to set up the takedown such that you are in the least advantageous position and it becomes even less likely. Further, consider the mechanics involved in generating power in an effective downward strike vs the way that a proper leg shot would take out the base from which said power might be generated and the likelihood drops even more. On top of that, the belief that just landing such a strike would unquestionably disable the shooter is speculation at the very best.

I have no doubt that you could find a qualified grappler of two in your area who would be willing to let you do whatever you want while they take you down, and I think you'd be quite surprised at what you experience.

sanjuro_ronin

04-15-2008, 04:18 AM

Ok, say you are going for a tackle, which, like I said before, being unfamiliar with the MMA style of tackle, would put you below shoulder level in the typical application. This would expose the back of the neck, and a pek choi (a downward type of hammer fist) would be very damaging. So, using my theoretical defense, a redirect of the attack/sidestep and a solid pek choi would end the match. This is all speculation, as a good offense would likely disable the arms as a counteroffensive via avenua of attack or type of tackle. I just don't see how you'd prevent the back/top of the head and/or neck from being exposed to a strong downward strike.

I couldn't tell you how many times I saw that type of move tried and failed in MMA, that ans the knee to the head counter.
Unkokusai basically stated the why's and I will add this:
Unless you drill that very counter over and over and over and over, so that it is not only natural but instinctive you must still train with grapplers to understand what is happening so that you can "see" a tackle or shoot for what it is and be able to apply the downward strike.
Remember, a good grappler may spend hours and hours and hours for days and days and weeks and weeks and , well you get the picture, drilling and training that takedown and you must, by the very nature of things, spend as much time drilling the counters AND you must do that VS the quality of grapplers of the highest level you can find.

It is certainly not impossible for that counter to work, it just isn't a high percentage move.

Heck I recall a certain dreadlocked fighter ( I forget his name) that countered an attempted tackle by KO'ing the tackler with a flying knee strike.

Drake

04-15-2008, 05:06 AM

Whelp.... that answered my question real good-like. Thanks.

sanjuro_ronin

04-15-2008, 05:29 AM

Whelp.... that answered my question real good-like. Thanks.

We try :D

I personally have used striking to stop attempted take downs, but if I was to make note of how many take down attempts I have stopped via strikes VS via grappling ( sprawls, reversals, guard, etc) VS misc (Chi blast, chairs, rocks, fairy dust, Sean Connery thumb strikes), the majority VS trained MMA practioners would be grappling counters.

HardWork8

04-15-2008, 06:53 AM

Ok, so we see the great wisdom that a total of 3 years of WC and too much time alone in the basement get you.

You are really seem to be having problems with remembering posts don't you? Don't worry, that is part and parcel of what god made you, just like that retard drool hanging out from the side of your mouth..

Having said that, I will go further and say that even if my Wing Chun experience amounted to a total of 1 month, then it would be 1 month MORE than yours.

-Stupid assumptions (and NOTHING else) about grappling

Just like your stupid assumptions about kung fu, I suppose?

-A **** attitude

You mean just like yours?

But thank you for the stars. I know deep inside that retarded brain of yours you harbor positive feelings for me.:D

-Utter ignorance concerning human physiology

If you mean my comments on kung fu training, then the ignorance is yours as you haven't trained any kung fu in your life.

-An inability to string together a sentence in the English language

My english language skills are fine for someone who speaks four other languages fluently, but YOU need to gain the "ability" to understand simple setences so you don't carry on making false statements about other posters. That is, if you really want to "combat" your chronic retardness.

-A callous and completely unfunny attitude toward disabled people

Correction. Make that," A callous and a funny attitude towards Unkokusai, the forum retard." There, that has a better ring to it.

And yet again, I apologize to any mentally challenged people, if they were offended by my including Unkokusai among their numbers.

By the way, have you been rude and hence chased away any newbies lately?

-A sense of 'humor' that falls flat every time without exception

Well, how would you know?. Drooling mental retards such as yourself were never known for their sense of humor.

Hey, I've got an idea. Why don't you attach a soup plate to the area under your chin. That way you can save all your drool for later use. I am sure that you could use it for taking your retard pills; washing your hands;taking a bath and so on.

You are in a very fortunate position you know. They say that the world is running out of water and there you are producing bundles of your own.:D

SoCo KungFu

04-15-2008, 07:05 AM

You really haven't really answered any of the questions (anybody with half a clue could understand what I was saying) and are hiding behind stupid comments(again your lack of knowledge fools you again...tell you what go have a couple boxers show you their technique and then you can come back and we'll have this conversation..). Yes, keep hiding behind your dogs anus.(You keep hiding in your basement...so?)

Who is we? You and Sifu Woofy, your tai chi teacher?

I wasn't struggling with it until I came across some of the UNDER-EVOLVED retards in this forum. Meeting you has turned my understanding of evolution upside down.(Well in your case that could only be a turn for the better)

I mean, your dog actually teaches you tai chi?

No not your bovine friends. I was referring to your forum friends. Leave them out of the conversation. They suffer enough just being your friends. I bet it is hard for them to get intelligent conversation when you are around. And I suppose, straight answers are just a no no.

They just keep lousy company. Are you the only person in the ranch?

FALSE STATEMENT AND A BLATANT LIE! Can you direct me to where I made such a statement? (What else could you do by yourself in the basement? You certainly aren't out there sparring and judging from your posts...you don't do any sort of supplemental strength and conditioning outside of your forms)
NO YOU CAN'T, CAN YOU MR RETARD? AND THAT IS BECAUSE MOST OF YOUR MAIN COMMENTS HAVE BEEN BASED ON LIES AND YOUR MISREPRESENTATIONS!

Sort of like your misrepresentation of any sort of kung fu experience

Wow! Did you come up with that by yourself?(Eh, its sort of a common held belief) It seems that your "traditional" training has taught you a thing or two, eh?.(More than you could know) However, did your drooling partner Unkokusai help you with that comment, as well?

I know for a fact that when you 2 wrestle and roll on the hills and of course drool over each other you end up bonding. You go through brain stor.......no,no that is scientifically impossible for you....yes I got the phrase now, it is, "drool storming", two or more retards come up with ideas by interacting.

Similar to that lame excuse for ground application you and your "secret school" friends came up with?

Who said they were? Forms are however a fundemental part of training ENCOMPASSING many levels of understanding and are part of a whole that includes,sparring, Iron Palm etc.

Sparring, iron palm, etc.....again, aspects of training you have no experience with

Wow, is that a new take on Iron Palm? You should try to hit the sand instead of the sh!t. It will make your claim of practicing traditional kung fu slightly less "smelly";)

What about your sifu's masters. Yes, the ones that you so happily mentioned?

What about them? I'm sure they couldn't really care less about little ol' me in their kungfu world...I will say this though...realistic teachers with realistic training tend to more likely produce realistic students...more so than the magic happy land you are living in....

Go and make your retarded jokes about chi ****s and comments like that with them and you will see that they can also be "realists" and will "really" kick your a$$ out of the Kwoon. YOU KNOW IT!

Mr "forms are antiquated but I am traditional", what a joke. Comments like that must really upset your Sifu Woofy.

Jokes on you buddy

Really? You must be paying him a lot for your tai chi lessons.

No...but I am getting worried about this flea situation....

Now, either Sifu Woofy is a lousy teacher or you are a lousy student. Wait a minute, why am I blaming that poor dog? The poor soul must be suffering enough trying to teach you tai chi WITHOUT TEACHING YOU THE FORMS LOL!LOL!

Because you can really come to understand body mechanics by practicing a form in your basement...not touching anything!

We all know SoCalledKung Fu doesn't like forms.(Actually I do like them, they are more fun than running. I particularly like 18 elbows, gung gee and big mantis...But I just know their place...why am I trying to reason with you? You have the IQ of a chipmunk...) All those sequences and the coordinated breathing confuse his mind. Oh god, why couldn't his brain be as large has his balls?Man If only....:D

Well they say that the lord works in mysterious ways. He gave you a small brain but he gave you A DOG, Sifu Woofy, who presumably has smaller balls but a larger brain than yours. TCMA are right. There is a balance in everything:D The irony of this statement coming from you is astounding

I bet so can you.

But don't worry, one day you will meet the right retard, sorry, lady and all that will change.

Well at least you have managed to answer another one of my questions from my previous post. The one about the internals.

Yes, that remark has shown how traditional your approach is.:rolleyes:
Are you saying there is no comedy in China?

Well it seems that Frank Yee has taught you well about the internals of Hungar. I bet he will be very proud of your take on Chi Kung.

As your master must be proud of your grasp of the ground style nut squeeze....OMG I made a pun..you get it? you get it?

I knock myself out sometimes. Oh btw, as to your questions...not only have you not...since like to point them out so much...answered them yourself...though we all really already know your perspective...but you haven't so much as even tried to respond intelligently to cjurakpt. Not that you could of course...

SoCo KungFu

04-15-2008, 07:35 AM

I just want to point out....

4. What kind of weight training if, any do you do and is it a common method in your school or is it something that you do on your own motivation?

Oh my the next idiotic thing you are going to say is that you get all the strength training you need from your forms right?

So, go back to your punch bag and your grappling classes and don't for get those weights, for those big muscles you so like to show off to those other guys in the gym.

I so called it :D

sanjuro_ronin

04-15-2008, 08:31 AM

I don't know why you guys are still arguing with him.
"let him rave so that people will know him to be mad"

HardWork8

04-15-2008, 09:55 AM

(anybody with half a clue would understand what I was saying)

Oh I understood what you were "saying" alright. You were saying that you WEREN'T practicing traditional kung fu.

go and have a couple of boxers show you their technique....

You are showing your ignorance of kung fu yet again. How many arts do you actually train?

By the way, I haven't heard of many boxers who go to kung fu kwoons asking to be shown kung fu techniques.

(well in your case that could only mean a turn for the better

Better like your Sifu Woofy teaching you tai chi?

what else could you be doing your basement?

Since I am posting to a retard, then I suppose that repetition is the order of the day. Here goes: I may train my Wing Chun on my own and with sifu whenever I see him, but I do train kung fu in a non-Wing Chun SCHOOL.

Now, be a good boy, take a couple of those retard pills and repeat that statement a couple of hundred times and I am sure that you will eventually (god knows when) appreciate the "essence" of that statement. I am not holding my breath. I learnt that lesson with your forum boy (retard)friend, Unkokusai. And be good boy and keep the retard drool napkins handy.

Otherwise, get Sifu Woofy to lick the drool off you. It will save you time and give you some much needed attention.

You certainly aren't sparring judging from your posts

FALSE STATEMENT AND A BLATANT LIE!

I tell you what, first get your retarde and diseased brain around simple statements and then I will help you work your way up to "judging" posts. OK?

Now be a good boy and go back and read that simple satements and for god's sake don't drool on your keyboard.

You don't do any sort of supplemental strengh and conditioning outside of your forms

FALSE STATEMENT AND A BLATANT LIE.

Can you please show where I say that I don't do any conditioning etc.? AGAIN YOU CAN'T CAN YOU. You are not only a retarded idiot but also a A LIAR.

YOUR POSTS ARE ALL ABOUT LYING AND MISREPRESENTING WHAT I DO, JUST AS THEY MISREPRESENT WHAT YOU DO.

Yes your so called "TRADITIONAL" approach while claiming that forms are "ANTIQUATED" and making deregotary remarks towards internal training.

Yes, well no wonder you are not giving any straight answers to the questions, while you keep hiding behind your dog's anus, which by now must be very sore.

Sort of like your misrepresentation of any sorte of kung fu experience

As it is becoming more and more apparent, the misrepresentations are all yours Mr "I practice traditional kung fu, but forms are antiquated and internal training is to be joked about".

YES, you have been misrepresenting yourself from the beginning.

Similar to the lame excuse for ground application you and your "secret school" friends came up with.

FALSE AND BATANT LIES and IMPLICATIONS!

Can you please show us where I state that I and my "secret school" friends came up with the said ground applications.

AGAIN, YOU CAN'T CAN YOU? WHY? BECAUSE,SURPRISE,SURPISE, YOU WERE LYING AGAIN!

Please show us the grounds on which you call this approach lame?

YOU CAN'T CAN YOU? One word for you: LIAR!

sparring, iron palm,etc.....again aspects of training you have no experience with

FALSE STATEMENT AND A BLATANT LIE!

You really are getting desperate aren't you? NO? Then will you be so kind to show us where I said that I have not sparred and don't train Iron Palm.

I don't know about you, but I have trained iron palm for years, with sifu and without sifu.

If you knew anything about kung fu, then you would have known that once you learn how to, then iron palm can be trained on your own. Of course, retards like you would not have any knowldedge of solo training as I believe the law requires you to be supervised at all times.

So I suppose that is why you can't envision yourself training without your sifu (the nice man in the white jacket)holding your hand, or probably your big balls? Well, he wouldn't want you to hit them by mistake now, would he?

You are showing yourself to be a "man" of low character and retardness is no excuse for dishonesty. Remember that. Well try and remember, as much as your diseased brain allows you to, that is.

I'm sure they [the masters] couldn't really care less about lil' old me in their kung fu world

That would be because you aren't in their kung fu world.

realistic teachers with realistic training tend to more likely produce realistic students....more so than the magic happy land that you are living in

FALSE ASSUMPTIONS (yet again) and IGNORANT COMMENTS. You have absolutely no idea of my Wing Chun schools training curriculum.

You are making groundless comments to save your forum butt and I am not letting get away with it.

The joke is on you buddy

I have shown you to be a dishonest poster and a person of low character who has continuely made UNTRUE and MISLEADING REMARKS about me.

NO JOKE!

...I am getting worried about his flea situation

Your dog must be very upset with you for giving him fleas. Just tell him that you got it from your bovine friends. Yes, blame them.

because you can really come to understand body mechanics by practicing a form in your basement.

I am going to take you seriously for a minute...but give me a few seconds to stop laughing........Oh, ok I am ready now. First of all dear Mr "traditional" SoCalledkung Fu You can understand body mechanics by practicing forms on your own. You just showed how clueless you really are regarding the traditional approach.

Of course, there are other ways (including partner training) that should be combined to forms training. But your remark, was yet again, IDIOTIC! I am losing count of your idiotic comments, but hey who is counting, right?

not touching anything!

Well, if you are that desperate to touch something then play with your balls.;)

(actually I do like them,they are more fun than running

So are salsa lessons.

I can just picture this you and your fellow retard, Unkokusai will eventually become sifus in your own invented style of Retard Fist.

And you will introduce your beginner students to forms practice by describing their relevance to kung fu practice as "More fun than running". I can just picture generations of kung fu masters turning in their graves.

Your retarded idiotic comments continue.......:rolleyes:

....You have an IQ of chip monk

Even if that were true, it would still put me higher in the food chain ladder and eternally beyond your retarded reach.

the irony of that statement coming from you is astounding

The fact that your retarded brain can recognize irony in any statement is in itself more astounding than anything I can come up with.

Are you saying that there is no comedy in China?

Well if there wasn't any comedy before then there sure is now, once they start reading about your traditional kungfu training.LOL! Now, that is funny.

As your master must be proud of your grasp of the ground style of nut squeeze...OMG I made a pun..you get it?you get it?

Actually, that last one was the only one that didn't make me laugh and fall off my chair.

I believe that you are much funnier when you are NOT trying to be funny.;)

I knock myself out sometimes.

Don't worry, it is not only you, that happens to a lot of other retards as well. If you don't believe me, then just ask Unkokusai.

Well he doesn't actually knock himself out as such. He is a grappler after all, he kind of takes himself down, when he slips over his own drool. Then his "intense" and "realistic" training takes over and he usually chokes himself out. Then he wakes up and blames the "invisible man". It is quite cute, really.

Oh btw, as to your questions...not only have you not...since like to point them out so much...answered them yourself...

I have not answered my own questions, because my questions were AIMED at you to answer, which you haven't, and not at myself.

That is it keep making the retarded comments.

though we all really already know your perspective...

The retardness guzzles out YET again. If you say that "we" already know your perspective, then why are yu asking me to answer questions that I have asked YOU, which YOU HAVE NOT FOR THE MOST PART ANSWERED?

but you haven't so much as even tried to respond intelligently to cjurakpt..

That statement is very funny, coming from you, Mr "SoCalledKungFu", who practices "traditional" kung fu, but thinks that forms are antiquated and a man who MAKES FALSE STATEMENTS AND LIES BLATENTLY just to win an argument that he has no hope of winning.

Not that you could of course .

I have answered him, however since you are a retard, then you will never know.

HardWork8

04-15-2008, 10:02 AM

I just want to point out....

I so called it :D

I was referring to people who focus too much on bag and weight training at the expense of other aspects of kung fu practice. That is it continue being retard and see the world the way you want it to be.:D

PS.You can build powerful striking ability without over reliance on weights.

unkokusai

04-15-2008, 12:01 PM

Basement-Boy thinks that endless posts of nothing can cover his shame at being exposed for the empty poseur that he is. :rolleyes:

HardWork8

04-15-2008, 12:24 PM

Basement-Boy thinks that endless posts of nothing can cover his shame at being exposed for the empty poseur that he is. :rolleyes:

Who "exposed" me, you the forum retard?

The only thing that drooling retards such as yourself expose, are their testicles in school playgrounds.

There, there now don't sulk. Be a good boy and go and help your retarded friend, "SoCalledKungFu" with his posts.

He has got a nice doggy you know. The doggy teaches him tai chi.

He can teach you tai chi too, you know. Only if you are nice to him though.

And if you are really nice to him, he will even lick that retard drool off your face. You would like that, wouldn't you? All that attention and from a creature that is eternally more intelligent than you.

Take care now, Ok.

unkokusai

04-15-2008, 12:25 PM

Who "exposed" me?

Three or four people on this thread alone, Basement-Boy.

HardWork8

04-15-2008, 01:03 PM

Three or four people on this thread alone, Basement-Boy.

Only in your retarded brain. Drool Boy.

sanjuro_ronin

04-15-2008, 01:11 PM

This constant lack of harmony reminds me of girl I knew named harmony...

SoCo KungFu

04-15-2008, 01:34 PM

I don't know why you guys are still arguing with him.
"let him rave so that people will know him to be mad"

Mostly because I'm bored...

I'm a flight medic in an Aeromed Evac. Sqd. So we don't really "see" patients. Just when someone has to be transported. So since we only do medicine in flight and we aren't flying atm...all I have to do is sit around at the computer and screw around for a government paycheck.....this is just a diversion....

That and I knew if it went on long enough you'd post a pic of some big breasted blonde :D

I guess you are right though, it is getting kinda old...I probably undid all my karmic work for the past three years on this one...

unkokusai

04-15-2008, 02:32 PM

Only in your retarded brain. Drool Boy.

You realize you've just become a joke at this point, right? Most everyone on this thread is just laughing at your ignorance and cartoonish attitude. I'm afraid folks are starting to tire of the show though. You'll have to step it up if you want to keep your audience, Basement-Boy.

HardWork8

04-15-2008, 02:37 PM

, You'll have to step it up if you want to keep your audience, Basement-Boy.

I thought I just did step it up Drool Boy. Don't worry, it will sink in eventually,

in a very long time...lol.

unkokusai

04-15-2008, 02:41 PM

No, Basement-Boy, still boring...

unkokusai

04-15-2008, 02:53 PM

Anyway, it seems that little is being said about the topic of this thread...

SoCo KungFu

04-15-2008, 03:14 PM

Anyway, it seems that little is being said about the topic of this thread...

Believe it or not...I was actually in the middle of typing out a post...actually being nice and sort of giving a few of the more obvious reasons why those links he posted were so wrong...things that even I could understand....I'm serious, really trying to help...not sure why...maybe my conscience is getting the better of me....

But then the girl I'm living with freaked out about the smoke alarm beeping and didn't want to get shocked so she runs in and cuts ALL the circuit breakers....smoke alarms have batteries :(

So anyways post was lost....hmmmm....

Divine Intervention?

HardWork8

04-15-2008, 03:27 PM

No, Basement-Boy, still boring...

And Drool Boy criticizes my english? LOL!

unkokusai

04-15-2008, 04:11 PM

English, you moron. :rolleyes:

HardWork8

04-15-2008, 05:06 PM

English, you moron. :rolleyes:

Dear Retard,
When I make a mistake you must remember (Oh god, that is a tall order)the fact that I speak 4 other languages fluently. However, I assume that English is your mother tongue (besides the obvious retard lingo, of course).

Do you get the point Drool Boy? You don't? No problem. I am here to help as always.

Ok, let us go back to the basics. Ok wipe off the drool and start repeat reading the above statement.

Do let me know how you get along.:D

unkokusai

04-15-2008, 05:38 PM

When I make a mistake you must remember the fact that I speak 4 other languages fluently.

And what is your first language?

SoCo KungFu

04-15-2008, 07:01 PM

Ok so today's results. We were working from our knees today...so it wasn't a total power base like I can expect from a standing altercation...but I did have 2 shot attempts on me. Sorta kept up instead of squatting to entice the shot so I could work the defense.

First attempt:
Got the headlock but wasn't able to get a good enough hold of the arm. I did manage to reach my arm around but couldn't secure the hook. What really killed it though was I didn't get my knees back quick enough to spread out and he managed to just bull me over. I pulled guard and we did the ground thing for a while.

Second attempt:
Same situation. Went for the headlock, this time I got it and secured control of his left arm. I'm not sure, this one just worked right. One thing, I did as you said and pulled back and down. But what was different was I tried to time it as he pushed though and was able to use his initial momentum to shift my legs back to establish my base and it let me get the tug on him. Though just as you said, it didn't really pancake him...but it gave me some control. After that I was actually surprised, it happened so fast but I actually got both legs around and made a move for his back. I know its not much, but for me to actually be able to go on offensive is a step I think. Unfortunately as I made the move for his back I couldn't get my right leg over to get a hook. He turned over BUT I still managed to pull side control. From there I decided to press my weight for a bit, collect myself. Just sorta did what I could to maintain position, not really try too much. Then it felt like he was sort of pausing for a second and I just shot as fast as I could into full mount. But he eventually managed to sweep me.

So, not really that much I know.

Is it a victory? no I suppose not.

But its a step forward. Every little bit at a time.

One guy today, long term guy, gonna fight next month again. He's actually done 2 smaller MMA fights now in Brazil in addition to the BJJ tournies. Taps me as he wishes but we were talking. He asked me if I wanted to fight too. I said I don't really think I'm ready yet. He's like, "nah sure you are. I tap you just cuz I'm advanced but you enter the beginner division. You can beat most of the beginners around here."

So, I take it for what it is. But its still cool to get a complement, especially when its one of the better grapplers in the class.

unkokusai

04-16-2008, 04:01 AM

First attempt:
Got the headlock but wasn't able to get a good enough hold of the arm. I did manage to reach my arm around but couldn't secure the hook. What really killed it though was I didn't get my knees back quick enough to spread out and he managed to just bull me over.

Its gonna be hard if you are giving up a lot of weight. Gotta learn to feel where he's going and balance sort of 'riding' his momentum and knowing where and when to apply your own leverage. You'll get better with it over time and with experience.

unkokusai

04-16-2008, 04:04 AM

Second attempt:
Same situation. Went for the headlock, this time I got it and secured control of his left arm. I'm not sure, this one just worked right. One thing, I did as you said and pulled back and down. But what was different was I tried to time it as he pushed though and was able to use his initial momentum to shift my legs back to establish my base and it let me get the tug on him. Though just as you said, it didn't really pancake him...but it gave me some control. After that I was actually surprised, it happened so fast but I actually got both legs around and made a move for his back. I know its not much, but for me to actually be able to go on offensive is a step I think.

Sounds good! Progress is progress!

sanjuro_ronin

04-16-2008, 04:10 AM

Going back on topic:

The best way to LEARN how to defend ANY take down attempt is to train with people that are highly specialized in it.
There is the old adage "know thy enemy" and then there is the simple common sense factor.
Anyone that has walked in a trained, even for just a bit, with anyone from a different system to see how they can deal with that system, has had an eye opening experience, even more so if that had gone in thinking that what they did in their own school prepared them for such.

Sometimes you can get lucky and have, in your own school, someone of a high caliber from a different system, more often than not though, its usually someone that THINKS this is how someone would perform "technique A".

Don't wast your time with that, go to a decent gym and see for yourself.

I would even suggest buy some instructional DVD's, but the vast majority of people don't know how to use them or even can appreciate what is being shown.

unkokusai

04-16-2008, 04:31 AM

Going back on topic:

The best way to LEARN how to defend ANY take down attempt is to train with people that are highly specialized in it..

Of course. I would add that a key step in learning to defend any takedown is learning how to do it well yourself. No better way to understand the timing and mechanics of something than by doing it yourself. This too (maybe more so) requires qualified training and worth while training partners.

sanjuro_ronin

04-16-2008, 04:54 AM

Of course. I would add that a key step in learning to defend any takedown is learning how to do it well yourself. No better way to understand the timing and mechanics of something than by doing it yourself. This too (maybe more so) requires qualified training and worth while training partners.

Agree 100%, though I recall getting reamed when I suggest that in another thread.
Common sense tells us that, if we learn to do something, any skill set really, we will be better equipped to deal with that skill set.
Anyone that does any MA seriously knows what the weaknesses of said MA are.

Another thing we need to do, which comes naturally when we train with people interested in getting better rather than just being "good enough", is be self critical in what we do and how we do it.
So many times we can just use a little bit of critical thinking in regards to a certain attack or counter to see if it would even work at all.

HardWork8

04-16-2008, 05:22 AM

And what is your first language?

That is for me to know. If you haven't noticed, then I will tell you. I tend to minimize the amount of personal info I give out on the net.

Drake

04-16-2008, 07:34 AM

Does this really have to happen in EVERY SINGLE THREAD?

HardWork8

04-16-2008, 08:23 AM

Does this really have to happen in EVERY SINGLE THREAD?

Not if Drool Boy stops provoking me or stops offending new posters.

Please go back and see his offensive remark directed at a new forum member by the name of, "James O".

God nows how many potentially good posters he has chased away by his rudeness.

Drake

04-16-2008, 08:34 AM

Not if Drool Boy stops provoking me or stops offending new posters.

Please go back and see his offensive remark directed at a new forum member by the name of, "James O".

God nows how many potentially good posters he has chased away by his rudeness.

You could do the adult thing and not respond, then? Or would you rather take part in derailing 80% of the topics on this forum?

HardWork8

04-16-2008, 08:40 AM

You could do the adult thing and not respond, then? Or would you rather take part in derailing 80% of the topics on this forum?

How would we solve the problem of him chasing away newbies?
Everybody seems to sit back and ignore the fact that he chases away newcomers. Has that approach stopped his behavior? NO it hasn't.

If everybody reacted to his offensive posts in the same way as I do then maybe he would stop being so offensive and perhaps he would even get lost to some wrestling forum. I mean the man doesn't even practice kung fu.

Drake

04-16-2008, 08:43 AM

But you are fueling the fire. Responses encourage further responses, right?

HardWork8

04-16-2008, 08:54 AM

But you are fueling the fire. Responses encourage further responses, right?

Yes and I know how to handle him and I am hopefully diverting his attention from the newbies.

Again, if everyone used my approach everytime he entered a thread with offensive remarks then perhaps he would modify his behavior or even maybe j he would just get lost.

A passive approach hasn't worked with him, so perhaps one needs to fight fire with fire.

Samurai Jack

04-16-2008, 09:24 AM

Yes and I know how to handle him and I am hopefully diverting his attention from the newbies.

Again, if everyone used my approach everytime he entered a thread with offensive remarks then perhaps he would modify his behavior or even maybe j he would just get lost.

A passive approach hasn't worked with him, so perhaps one needs to fight fire with fire.

Actually, the only way to encourage an offensive person to leave is to report every offensive post they make to a moderator. I'm afraid people are more likely to be reporting you at this time than the other way around. No offense intended. Personally, I'm quite used to filtering the lame arguments through threads, and even I'm noticing the enormous amount of de-railed threads around here.

Just saying.

HardWork8

04-16-2008, 09:50 AM

Actually, the only way to encourage an offensive person to leave is to report every offensive post they make to a moderator. I'm afraid people are more likely to be reporting you at this time than the other way around. No offense intended. Personally, I'm quite used to filtering the lame arguments through threads, and even I'm noticing the enormous amount of de-railed threads around here.

Just saying.

I see where you are coming from, but anyone can see where the inintial provocations are coming from. They can also see how Unkokusai's offensive remarks can discourage the participation of new posters.

It seems so far that no one has reported Unkokusai to the moderator as he has more than 2000 posts under his name. Aso, no one seems to confront him when he gets abusive towards newbies.

unkokusai

04-16-2008, 10:14 AM

That is for me to know.

Another pointless evasion...er...I mean secret! :rolleyes: Just like the 'secret weapon' kungfu you cannot name. Ok great, since you won't answer why don't you just STFU and quit whining 'cause some of us were actually trying to discuss the topic of this thread before you picked right back up again with the same lame old act we've seen on ten pages of this thread so far.

If you aren't trying to prevent people from discussing the topic of the thread you'll either say something about it or shut yer yap so other people can. Who knows? you might learn something!

HardWork8

04-16-2008, 10:23 AM

Another pointless evasion...er...I mean secret! :rolleyes: Just like the 'secret weapon' kungfu you cannot name. Ok great, since you won't answer why don't you just STFU and quit whining 'cause some of us were actually trying to discuss the topic of this thread before you picked right back up again with the same lame old act we've seen on ten pages of this thread so far.

If you aren't trying to prevent people from discussing the topic of the thread you'll either say something about it or shut yer yap so other people can. Who knows? you might learn something!

I believe that Drool Boy is upset.:D

I tell you what, why don't you continue discussing the topic of the thread and we will see how long you will last without making an abusive comment.

unkokusai

04-16-2008, 10:49 AM

I tell you what, why don't you continue discussing the topic of the thread and we will see how long you will last without making an abusive comment.

About this long: STFU idiot. You've got nothing to say, you admit you know nothing of the topic (haven't 'gotten' to that elite WC grapple level :rolleyes: ), and have been discredited and exposed over and over again.

HardWork8

04-16-2008, 11:47 AM

About this long: STFU idiot. You've got nothing to say, you admit you know nothing of the topic (haven't 'gotten' to that elite WC grapple level :rolleyes: ), and have been discredited and exposed over and over again.

Talk about proving my point!

Upset are we now. Clean that retard drool off that computer screen and stick to the topic at hand.

What a retard...LOL.

sanjuro_ronin

04-16-2008, 12:19 PM

he is not provoking you; if anything, he has been reserved; you have been the instigator since square one;

as for offending newbs, well, i was a newb once; he was posting when I came along; i was never offended by what he wrote, or if I was, I got over it; and why do you even care, hmmm?

BTW, your response to my comments re: "tendon loosening" was pathetic (albeit expected); you didn't answer a single question I asked, didn't engage in a dialogue at all; instead, you reply with a lame evasion vis a vis "oh, you almost got it, go back and reread what you wrote" and my favorite "I'm not gonna tell you guys about it" (like we care, really) etc.; what you apparently missed, was that I was not asking specifically about your method in terms of what it involved: I don't give a cr@p about what you do specifically; my point was you inappropriate use of the word "tendon" as something that can be loosened; I pointed out that, in terms of what a "tendon" is, in English, that's not something that can happen; all you had to do was say "you are right" (which you would never admit to, I know), or provide evidence to the contrary (which you can't); you could even have acknowledged that you were coming from a TCM perspective, and therefore agreed that the term "sinew" would have been preferable; but that would have also have required you to at least partially admit that you were not 100% correct, which is obviously inconceivable to you

also, you need to stop using the word "retard"; it is inappropriate; I find it personally offensive, given that I work with cognitively impaired kids on a daily basis, and that particular epithet is something most of them have encountered, and believe me, they are smart enough to know it's not a compliment; so can it, aszhole;

so, in light of the fact that you won't reveal where you train, or what your teacher's name is, or that you always are right, that you set yourself up as the protector of innocent newbs, or that you can't even list the languages you speak (:confused::confused::confused:), it is readily apparent that you are nothing more than a TROLL; and not a very good one; in fact, it's pretty low-level trolling: unfortunately, we haven't had any really good trolls around for a while, so I guess we let it go on for a while in the hopes that it might improve (no such luck, evidently)

as such, I have reported you to a moderator (I strongly suggest others to do the same); the next move is a PM to Gene; and then I'll go the route of starting a thread on the main forum "warning" people about your activity and that they shouldn't feed you by engaging you in conversation any longer (that has worked very well for at least 2 other personae non gratae in the past);

of course, we know you will respond with the usual (boring) repertoire of "go ahead, see if I care, you can't stop me from posting what i want, you are a retard, blah, blah, blah - that's cool, whatever; in fact, keep at it, so that by the time Gene gets around to reading this and other threads, what he'll see is you raving on and on the same way regardless of who posts what, and it will be banny-ban time all the quicker

you are a troll; and you need to go;

Ah dude, he was a troll on Bullshido were he said he witnessed his WC sifu in Brasil fight challenge matches with SIGNED documents, but not only could he produce nothing, not even a name, but members in Brasil proved none of that even happened and that this "poster" was nothing but a poser that no one even knew.
He was a troll and a joke there and he is the same here.
Best to treat him like the insignificant whelp that he is.

HardWork8

04-16-2008, 12:50 PM

he is not provoking you; if anything, he has been reserved; you have been the instigator since square one;

as for offending newbs, well, i was a newb once; he was posting when I came along; i was never offended by what he wrote, or if I was, I got over it; and why do you even care, hmmm?

BTW, your response to my comments re: "tendon loosening" was pathetic (albeit expected); you didn't answer a single question I asked, didn't engage in a dialogue at all; instead, you reply with a lame evasion vis a vis "oh, you almost got it, go back and reread what you wrote" and my favorite "I'm not gonna tell you guys about it" (like we care, really) etc.; what you apparently missed, was that I was not asking specifically about your method in terms of what it involved: I don't give a cr@p about what you do specifically; my point was you inappropriate use of the word "tendon" as something that can be loosened; I pointed out that, in terms of what a "tendon" is, in English, that's not something that can happen; all you had to do was say "you are right" (which you would never admit to, I know), or provide evidence to the contrary (which you can't); you could even have acknowledged that you were coming from a TCM perspective, and therefore agreed that the term "sinew" would have been preferable; but that would have also have required you to at least partially admit that you were not 100% correct, which is obviously inconceivable to you

also, you need to stop using the word "retard"; it is inappropriate; I find it personally offensive, given that I work with cognitively impaired kids on a daily basis, and that particular epithet is something most of them have encountered, and believe me, they are smart enough to know it's not a compliment; so can it, aszhole;

so, in light of the fact that you won't reveal where you train, or what your teacher's name is, or that you always are right, that you set yourself up as the protector of innocent newbs, or that you can't even list the languages you speak (:confused::confused::confused:), it is readily apparent that you are nothing more than a TROLL; and not a very good one; in fact, it's pretty low-level trolling: unfortunately, we haven't had any really good trolls around for a while, so I guess we let it go on for a while in the hopes that it might improve (no such luck, evidently)

as such, I have reported you to a moderator (I strongly suggest others to do the same); the next move is a PM to Gene; and then I'll go the route of starting a thread on the main forum "warning" people about your activity and that they shouldn't feed you by engaging you in conversation any longer (that has worked very well for at least 2 other personae non gratae in the past);

of course, we know you will respond with the usual (boring) repertoire of "go ahead, see if I care, you can't stop me from posting what i want, you are a retard, blah, blah, blah - that's cool, whatever; in fact, keep at it, so that by the time Gene gets around to reading this and other threads, what he'll see is you raving on and on the same way regardless of who posts what, and it will be banny-ban time all the quicker

you are a troll; and you need to go;

I am sorry that you feel that way. You did answer your own question. If you did not see it then. There is nothing I can do about that.

As far as the tendon linking question is concerned. It would be impossible to explain it in a written manner. I have been practicing in for months and I am just begining to feel its effects.

As far as Unkokusai is concerned, I don't believe that you haven't "noticed" how offensive he is to the new comers. Believe it or not, not matter how knowledgable you consider yourself to be in the world of martial arts, any forum NEEDS NEW COMERS and Unkokusai is usually very offensive to them and to everyone else.

He was also very offensive to me when I was a newcomer as well. You don't want to notice then bury your head in the sand.

I practice Wing Chun and that is what is relevant as my forum ID is concerned, not anything else that I practiced nor the languages that I speak. That is up to me to divulge and not up to your demands.

If you bother to look elsewhere in the forums, you will see that I actually do talk about Wing Chun.

So there you have the facts.

unkokusai

04-16-2008, 02:11 PM

also, you need to stop using the word "retard"; it is inappropriate; I find it personally offensive, given that I work with cognitively impaired kids on a daily basis, and that particular epithet is something most of them have encountered, and believe me, they are smart enough to know it's not a compliment; so can it, aszhole;

This has been explained to him several times and he just doesn't seem to care. His little troll act is more important, I guess.

SoCo KungFu

04-16-2008, 02:40 PM

Despite how blunt he can be at times...unko does have some good sh!t to say....as long as you don't make yourself out to be a pompous @$$hole or a mindless poseur...

Something which Hardyboy here has managed to do both at the same time...

That and while my post count isn't as high as some others here, I can already see it gets old playing out the same old arguments over and over....

Anyways, I asked an honest question and I got an honest response. Actually a nice detailed one at that. With enough to keep me busy for the next couple weeks...and more options to follow...

HardWork8

04-16-2008, 04:16 PM

Ah dude, he was a troll on Bullshido were he said he witnessed his WC sifu in Brasil fight challenge matches

THAT IS A FALSE STATEMENT AND A BLATANT LIE.

What I said was that my sifu had fought challenge matches mainly in France and a few in Brasil.

At no point did I claim that I had WITNESSED this.
YOU ARE A LIAR SIR!

with SIGNED documents,

Yes, some liability wavers were signed.

but not only could he produce nothing, not even a name,

I did not want to name my sifu, because that was not the point of the discussion. And I did not want to risk having a line of loosers waiting to challenge him outside his kwoon.

The point that I was trying to make was that, now concentrate,

"eventhough many traditional kung fu exponents do not participate in competitions, they do fight challenges"

Adding that my sifu had fought challenges, as many other sifus have. Some strange concept huh, a kung fu guy actually fighting.

My mistake was in mentioning that during some challenges, he had beaten kick boxers. Then all hell broke loose, because all the modern MMA-ists couldn't believe that a kung fu guy could beat a kickboxer and somehow took offence, so they wanted "proof".

So they wanted his name. As if that would make a difference regarding the original point I was trying to make, OR EVEN PROVE ANYTHING! How can you prove somthing like that over the net to a bunch of kickboxers,when you are not even trying to prove it. It was just an example.

Again my point was, now concentrate again, that:

some traditional kung fu teachers fight challenges, even if they don't fight in sports competitions. Wow, what a radical point.

but members in Brasil proved none of that even happened

Who were those "members"? THAT IS A LIE AND YOU ARE DELIBERATELY TRYING TO MISLEAD!

Nothing was proven either way and that is very different from what you are saying and implying.

Are you referring to a gentleman who says he conversed with my sifu for a couple of minutes in a seminar in Rio? Who said that he hadn't "heard" of any challenges taking place?

Did you happen to also and somehow mysteriously speak to "members" in France? NO? How so?

You are a MISLEADING LIAR!

And I know that you are SORE about something aren't you, oh and how SORE you are.

and that this "poster" was nothing but a poser that no one even knew.

THAT IS IT, KEEP MAKING THE FALSE ACCUSATIONS AND DEREGATORY STATEMENTS.....

Again, since repeating is the order of the day in this forum, then I will repeat, yet again so be a good boy Sanjuro and read:

My point was that there were kung fu exponents who did not compete in sports competitions, but they did fight challenges and I mentioned my sifu as an example.

I repeated that point in that forum as well, but somehow it got lost in the frenzy. And you Sanjuro have deliberately MISUNDERSTOOD the point that I was trying to make, THEN and NOW, and have MIS REPRESENTED THE STORY HERE OR AT LEAST YOU HAVE BEEN ECONOMICAL WITH THE TRUTH.
MEANING THAT YOU ARE A LIAR!

He was a troll and a joke there and he is the same here.

TjSays the resident LIAR!

Yes, that's it, make misrepresentations and have your "revenge" against the guy who crashed you down on your butt, from that "high tower" FALSE kung fu knowledge.

Best to treat him like the insignificant whelp that he is.

Whatever I may be:

A. I practice real kung fu, which is more than you will ever do and that fact questions your very existance in the KUNG FU FORUMS.

B. And of course I am not a LIAR!

unkokusai

04-16-2008, 05:22 PM

Oh fer cryin' out loud... :rolleyes:

I guess your goal really is to make sure the topic of this thread cannot be discussed.

SoCo KungFu

04-16-2008, 08:54 PM

This guy just won't go away....
Why is it always the people that have the least to say that want to talk so much?:confused:

He's like the little nugget, when you take a poop...that one little nugget...that when you flush, it keeps coming back. No matter how many times you flush...so you try to cover it up with some paper and flush...but its still pops back up...

Sorry, I just thought we needed some poop reference in this conversation.

And BTW, TYPING IN CAPS DOESN'T MAKE YOUR ARGUMENT ANY MORE PLAUSIBLE!!!

Do you go around yelling at the top of your lungs because you think it makes you more correct? So stop typing like a four year old throwing a temper tantrum.

Didn't this guy say he was like 45 or something? People like this make it really hard for me to respect my elders....

SAAMAG

04-16-2008, 09:43 PM

Holy schneikies....

this guy is still going here too? The last thing I read is when he had no clue about how to reply when questioned by an actual authority on the human body--which was good stuff I might add. I'm still thinking about getting my masters in physical therapy so I found what was written quite interesting.

Sooo how bout them front tackles eh? How about...we just shoot the guy as he's rushing in head first from 10 feet away? That's how most people tackle anyway right?

banditshaw

04-16-2008, 10:00 PM

wasn't that what John Merrick (http://www.aboyd.com/merrick/images/elepman5.jpg) used to exclaim?

ROFLMAO!!

.

HardWork8

04-17-2008, 04:14 AM

wow - that was some rant.

That is it, ignore the content of my post which was referring to Sanjuro's FALSE STATEMENTS AND BLATANT LIES!

You and your "brain" also somehow managed to miss all the false statements and ungrounded assumptions made by "SoCalledKungFu".

You are really being picky with your morality, aren't you?

(funny, after it was kinda laid on the line he got all contrite and conciliatory...)

I was being kind to you.

Also, I seem to recall that it was YOU who suggested that we should be "civil".

Now, if you are not taking your own advice about being "civil" then don't expect me too either!

HardWork8

04-17-2008, 04:23 AM

wasn't that what John Merrick (http://www.aboyd.com/merrick/images/elepman5.jpg) used to exclaim?

By the way, if I had wanted to see Unkokusai's picture, I would have asked him for it myself.

Talk about about respect. So I didn't respect the congnitively impaired when I associated Unkokusai to them, but somehow you are "respecting" the physically impaired by posting that picture.

That is it, keep on perceiving faults in others while you ignore your own and that of your lying and dishonest glorified kickboxer buddies.

unkokusai

04-17-2008, 04:24 AM

Shocking! :eek:

unkokusai

04-17-2008, 04:25 AM

Too funny! I just knew that Basement-Boy wouldn't have the sense to quit while he's behind and stop digging the deep, deep hole he's made for himself! LOL!

sanjuro_ronin

04-17-2008, 04:27 AM

THAT IS A FALSE STATEMENT AND A BLATANT LIE.

What I said was that my sifu had fought challenge matches mainly in France and a few in Brasil.

At no point did I claim that I had WITNESSED this.
YOU ARE A LIAR SIR!

Yes, some liability wavers were signed.

I did not want to name my sifu, because that was not the point of the discussion. And I did not want to risk having a line of loosers waiting to challenge him outside his kwoon.

The point that I was trying to make was that, now concentrate,

"eventhough many traditional kung fu exponents do not participate in competitions, they do fight challenges"

Adding that my sifu had fought challenges, as many other sifus have. Some strange concept huh, a kung fu guy actually fighting.

My mistake was in mentioning that during some challenges, he had beaten kick boxers. Then all hell broke loose, because all the modern MMA-ists couldn't believe that a kung fu guy could beat a kickboxer and somehow took offence, so they wanted "proof".

So they wanted his name. As if that would make a difference regarding the original point I was trying to make, OR EVEN PROVE ANYTHING! How can you prove somthing like that over the net to a bunch of kickboxers,when you are not even trying to prove it. It was just an example.

Again my point was, now concentrate again, that:

some traditional kung fu teachers fight challenges, even if they don't fight in sports competitions. Wow, what a radical point.

Who were those "members"? THAT IS A LIE AND YOU ARE DELIBERATELY TRYING TO MISLEAD!

Nothing was proven either way and that is very different from what you are saying and implying.

Are you referring to a gentleman who says he conversed with my sifu for a couple of minutes in a seminar in Rio? Who said that he hadn't "heard" of any challenges taking place?

Did you happen to also and somehow mysteriously speak to "members" in France? NO? How so?

You are a MISLEADING LIAR!

And I know that you are SORE about something aren't you, oh and how SORE you are.

THAT IS IT, KEEP MAKING THE FALSE ACCUSATIONS AND DEREGATORY STATEMENTS.....

Again, since repeating is the order of the day in this forum, then I will repeat, yet again so be a good boy Sanjuro and read:

My point was that there were kung fu exponents who did not compete in sports competitions, but they did fight challenges and I mentioned my sifu as an example.

I repeated that point in that forum as well, but somehow it got lost in the frenzy. And you Sanjuro have deliberately MISUNDERSTOOD the point that I was trying to make, THEN and NOW, and have MIS REPRESENTED THE STORY HERE OR AT LEAST YOU HAVE BEEN ECONOMICAL WITH THE TRUTH.
MEANING THAT YOU ARE A LIAR!

TjSays the resident LIAR!

Yes, that's it, make misrepresentations and have your "revenge" against the guy who crashed you down on your butt, from that "high tower" FALSE kung fu knowledge.

Whatever I may be:

A. I practice real kung fu, which is more than you will ever do and that fact questions your very existance in the KUNG FU FORUMS.

B. And of course I am not a LIAR!

Bite me basement boy.
Calling someone a liar doesn't make them so, the fact is you tried this crap on Bullshido and were exposed to be full of it.
We all know that you are full of it.
Spew your crap as much as you want, one day maybe even YOU will actually believe it.
The rest of us know you for what you are.

HardWork8

04-17-2008, 04:44 AM

This guy just won't go away....

That is it, make false and dishonest statements about a fellow forum poster and then tell to go away instead of responding.

I will "go away" as soon as you guys stop making false and dishonest statements about me and as soon as you stop pretending that you actually practice traditional kung fu, because that claim and any advise based on that is dishonest as well.

Why is it always the people that have the least to say that want to talk so much?:confused:

He asks looking at the mirror.;)

He's like the little nugget, when you take a poop...that one little nugget...that when you flush, it keeps coming back. No matter how many times you flush...so you try to cover it up with some paper and flush...but its still pops back up....

Sorry, I just thought we needed some poop reference in this conversation.

You didn't need to. The presence of you and some of your glorified kickboxer forum buddies, provide more than enough poo references. Thank you.

However, you should do something about your obsession with ****s and poo. You keep bringing these subjects up MA threads.

And BTW, TYPING IN CAPS DOESN'T MAKE YOUR ARGUMENT ANY MORE PLAUSIBLE!!!

It was meant to draw attention to the dishonest statements made towards my person. Such as the ones made by yourself.

Remember? The ones that when challenged, you conveniently avoided to provide proof, by going silent on me.

I wouldn't have needed to do that if some of you had attention spans that were at least slightly higher than that of a rabbit's.

Do you go around yelling at the top of your lungs because you think it makes you more correct? So stop typing like a four year old throwing a temper tantrum.

You just don't want attention drawn to your lies and dishonest remarks.

Didn't this guy say he was like 45 or something? People like this make it really hard for me to respect my elders....

Before you respect anyone else, try and develop a little self respect, so that you don't go around TELLING LIES and MAKING DISHONEST STATEMENTS about your fellow posters.

This would mean that then you would not have to hide behind your dog's you know what, nor that of cjurakpt, when challenged about those very statements.;)

HardWork8

04-17-2008, 06:00 AM

I find that highly suspect given your earlier posturing vis a vis my forum asz and teeth...

And that was a reaction to your own, not so subtle and condecending, first post addressed to me. Some of you guys really have short memories. Conveniently short, perhaps?

again, I was not trying to answer any question: I asked you a very specific one, that you had no response to; regardless of what i thought you meant, you needed to man up about the fact that what you meant by tendon has nothing to do with the commonly accepted definition of the word; and you didn't;

Maybe you should man up about the fact that you know relatively little about the internals within traditional kung fu training. That would make things easier and not only would clarify your confusion regarding the subject matter, but also put it into context.

Having said that I am still saying that you answered your own question, where I said you answered it, but it is becoming more and more apparent that you just got "lucky" as you fail to see the answer that you, yourself provided for your own question.

You are an interesting character, I'll give you that.

so then why are you even bringing it up, if you can't discuss it?

I thought I clarified why I made references to the "tendon linking" concept.
Christ! here we go again, repetition time: I wanted to know wether you or anyone had heard of this. I was curious because sifu had already said that not many people know of this approach and there are unlikely to be any references in books.

My god, it is obvious that I am not going to learn much about real kung fu from you three (and I still consider myself a beginner) and I am not likely to need kickboxing advice anytime soon, but hey I am a positive kind of a guy, because at least my typing skill has improved immensley since I started repeat typing relatively simple statements that you somehow and very mysteriously fail to understand.

So, many thanks for helping me with my typing-fu.:D

who are you to decide what a forum needs?

That is a very ignorant question, that is if you are referring to my statement regarding the forum needing newcomers and the criticizm aimed at Unkokusai's harassement of newbies.

why do you even care?

Another incredibly ignorant statement.

did Gene recruit you as the new KFMF welcome wagon?

Luckily for you and your kickboxer friends, he didn't.

of boo hoo! are you like, six years old? of course I noticed; and guess what? I got past that and actually read some of the substance of his comments - ascertaining that it was in and of itself compelling, I didn't really focus on the mode of delivery; in fact, there are several people on her who have spewed their vitriol at me directly, without cause - and i didn't let it bother me, because, surprise, surprise, it doesn't mean anything, and it's very easy to just ignore it, and to focus on things that engage me more meaningfully - why is that something you seem unable to figure out on your own?

If it didn't bother you, then that may be because you have a thick skin, rather like that thick skull that is meant to be protecting your "brain".

Well, I am still here too, so that discredits all the implications in your statement above. Not only am I here, but also I put a few tears in his eyes too.;)

However, Unkokusai does put off other posters who may not appreciate being set upon by shall we say "a not all there" character.

see, typical troll - hey bozo, no one is demanding anything: fundamentally no one cares, but if you are talk talk talking about a lineage to the degree that you talk about yours, people asking specifics is bound to occur,

That is interesting, because very few people actually asked me about my specific Wing Chun lineage. That just goes to show.;)

because a) it speaks to general credibility and

You three should worry about YOUR own "general" credibility regarding real kung fu practice.

it helps establish a context for what you are saying;

The contexts of what I am saying are all IN my posts. You not understanding them demonstrates your lack of credibility as regards traditional kung fu, NOT mine.

c) IT's NO BIG DEAL - this is not China in the 1800's - concealing one's lineage has NO FUNCTIONAL PURPOSE ANYMORE (unless your head is up you butt thinking it's 1875)

Could it be that you or someone else asked me about my Wing Chun lineage, and I somehow missed the question? Can you show me where?

true - I noticed your tongue up one or two WC peeps asz on several threads; nothing like licking the balls of a fellow "traditionalist", is there?

I made valid posts on the subject of Wing Chun and I got a valid response from somebody, who unlike you seems to practice,teachs and understand this art.

You saw that, but chose to ignore it as you ignore all the blatant lies and false statements made by your fellow kickboxers.

Well at least now we know OFFICIALY that you don't practice traditional kung fu.

the fact is, you are a troll, plain and simple; rule of thumb: when the vast majority of people express a negative opinion of you and your posts, the statistic are suggestive that it's not them, it's...guess who?

Yes, keep repeating the lies.

Then the statistics also suggest that most kung fu kwoons are MC KWOONS and that in turn suggests that the majority of practitioners practice in Mc kwoons making them pseudo-kung fu artists and glorified kickboxers. this FACT suggests the identity of the forum trolls,"the vast majority", who are: GUESS WHO?

HardWork8

04-17-2008, 06:36 AM

Bite me basement boy.

You should seriously consider finding a girlfriend (who likes liars).

Calling someone a liar doesn't make them so,

No, you lying and making false statements made you a liar.

You have proven yourself to be a person of an extremely dishonest character (the same goes for your 2 sore looser forum friends).

You KNOW that you are lying, yet you keep repeating the lie and that is DISGUSTING!

the fact is you tried this crap on Bullshido and were exposed to be full of it.

You are lying again!

The only thing exposed here is the fact that you and another couple of posters who consider themselves to be "TCMA gods of the Kung Fu forums" wouldn't know real kung fu practice if it fell on them and that you are nothing more than glorified kick boxers.

IT IS YOU GUYS WHO HAVE BEEN EXPOSED! and as a result, you are all sore and want revenge and are doing so through FALSE STATEMENTS AND LIES!

I have explained the matter to you through various repetitions, to make it easy for that little lying brain of yours to absorb the facts.

BUT YET AGAIN, you have ignored those statements and are CONTINUING TO LIE!

We all know that you are full of it.
Spew your crap as much as you want, one day maybe even YOU will actually believe it.

Yes, continue to fuel the lie. YOU ARE LYING THROUGH YOUR TEETH.

The rest of us know you for what you are.

And that is what has been getting under your skin, hasn't it?

I practice real kung fu and that is something that you have never done, putting the credibility of any advice that you have given on the matter, into question.

You and your forum friends cjurakpt and SoCoKungFu have been brought down crashing on your butts, from your high tower of FALSE kung fu knowledge.

YOU AND YOUR FELLOW FORUM KICKBOXERS HAVE BEEN EXPOSED!

So go ahead repeat the lies and have your revenge. Do your worse and see where it will get you.