Wing Chun Competition?

[KPM]

These video clips turned up on another thread in a different context. So I thought I would start a new thread and bring them up again.

This is not Wing Chun. This is a Japanese martial art headed by a man named Seishi Horibe and called "Nihon Budokan Koppo Kai" or "Kenka-Kai Koppo." I don't know the history or providence of what he is doing. Maybe there is a strong Wing Chun or Jeet Kune Do influence in his past, but Koppo is supposed to be a traditional Budo style dating back to Chinese origins.

I found this sparring footage interesting, because to me these guys look more like Wing Chun than the typical video that is posted that is SUPPOSED to be Wing Chun! These guys certainly look more like Wing Chun than the guy in the recently posted clip fighting the Muay Thai opponent in a KOTC event. Granted, most of their structure and footwork is off from a Wing Chun perspective, but their hands are very similar.

To me these guys almost look like free Chi Sao without the rolling platform. There seems to be a rule against striking with a closed fist, though joint locks and takedowns appear to be legal. You have to give these guys credit for being willing to mix it up with very limited protective gear. I've never had the opportunity to go to any kind of Wing Chun competition, but I'd envision it looking something like this.

What do you guys think?

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=8Stx-i-S4cs

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=coDVM2cvQoM

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=JxyDEkin28k&feature=related

Thanks to Armin for pointing out these clips!

[Ultimatewingchun]

Interesting...does look quite a bit like wing chun vs. wing chun.

Although I don't think it earns a cigar as props.

For one thing, the lack of closed fists is kind of dumb if you ask me. I'd rather see headgear and fists than this kind of thing.

[Edmund]

It looks a bit fake unfortunately.

The slaps and chops to the face and neck weren't the type that could drop someone IMHO. The knee strikes were pulled but the victims acted like they landed harder than they did.

[Lee Chiang Po]

Nothing fake about it. It is not even a mongrelized version of Wing Chun. Lots of styles employ the straight line principals in their techniques, but this style did not employ any WC techniques that I could see.

[KPM]

Hi Edmund!

It looks a bit fake unfortunately.

---I think they may have been exaggerating a bit for the camera, but I don't think it was fake.

The slaps and chops to the face and neck weren't the type that could drop someone IMHO. The knee strikes were pulled but the victims acted like they landed harder than they did.

---I saw some pretty solid shots to the jaw land. What's it matter whether it was a shot with an open hand or a fist? Either one could certainly drop someone! Bas Rutten used to knock people out with open hand strikes.

Hey Lee!

Lots of styles employ the straight line principals in their techniques, but this style did not employ any WC techniques that I could see.

---Were we watching the same videos? I saw lots of spade hand strikes, Biu Gee strikes with the edge of the hand, and even some Pak Saos. Like I said, there seemed to be a rule against striking with the fists. If they didn't have that rule and these guys were punching instead of throwing open hand strikes I'm pretty sure their straight punches would like a heckavu lot like Wing Chun!

[sanjuro_ronin]

Good old fashioned harlot slapping !

[SAAMAG]

Gott agree with Ed here. It may not be completely fake, but something's definitely up with some of the pulled strikes and the exaggerated reactions that were given. Take a look at some of those head shots, if you're taking real shots to the face, you're not going to stand there and take them like the guy in one of the clips was. Then when the other guy "stomped" on him...c'mon now. I really liked the fancy ass super clean whirly twirly arm bar that was done too. Those are the times for example when you know something isn't quite right.

I think it's more reminiscent of WWE than a real fight. OK to watch. The last vid made me laugh pretty hard.

[Edmund]

---I think they may have been exaggerating a bit for the camera, but I don't think it was fake.



Hi Keith,

I think that's a better way of putting it. They exaggerated a bit!



---I saw some pretty solid shots to the jaw land. What's it matter whether it was a shot with an open hand or a fist? Either one could certainly drop someone! Bas Rutten used to knock people out with open hand strikes.


I got nothing against open hand strikes. They can KO someone but the difference between Bas and those guys is that Bas is seriously aiming to smack someone's nose in. You can see a fair bit of power is behind it. Those Koppo guys were kinda just pimp slapping the surface.

[Edmund]

Gott agree with Ed here. It may not be completely fake, but something's definitely up with some of the pulled strikes and the exaggerated reactions that were given. Take a look at some of those head shots, if you're taking real shots to the face, you're not going to stand there and take them like the guy in one of the clips was. Then when the other guy "stomped" on him...c'mon now. I really liked the fancy ass super clean whirly twirly arm bar that was done too. Those are the times for example when you know something isn't quite right.

I think it's more reminiscent of WWE than a real fight. OK to watch. The last vid made me laugh pretty hard.

It is a little bit like UWFi, a Japanese Pro Wrestling organisation that made the fights look like MMA matches. It wasn't that fake looking and it wasn't that choreographed but there was some compliance there.

[Lugoman]

Is this style/sport the origin of the Koppo sticks?

[Lee Chiang Po]

I did a search on the web and came up with what I managed to interprit to be a mix of several different fighting systems. Mostly Chinese systems, including Wing Chun principals and a mix of Kenpo. That I think might be the Chinese version of Kempo karate. They have it registered with the Budokan Karate people.
I went back and looked again, and I think those boys were pretty good. You know, you can inflict some seriously devestating blows with the flat of your hand. I once knew a man, last name of Fong, that could not make a decent fist. His hands had been crushed many times in his line of work. He could slap you though. His Slap Sau was one you would not want to experience.

Jack

[Lee Chiang Po]

Lugoman, it could well be. One of the systems of fighting that was incorporated into this style was a Philipine fighting system that also uses sticks. Can't remember the name of it now.

[HardWork8]

These video clips turned up on another thread in a different context. So I thought I would start a new thread and bring them up again.

This is not Wing Chun. This is a Japanese martial art headed by a man named Seishi Horibe and called "Nihon Budokan Koppo Kai" or "Kenka-Kai Koppo." I don't know the history or providence of what he is doing. Maybe there is a strong Wing Chun or Jeet Kune Do influence in his past, but Koppo is supposed to be a traditional Budo style dating back to Chinese origins.

I found this sparring footage interesting, because to me these guys look more like Wing Chun than the typical video that is posted that is SUPPOSED to be Wing Chun! These guys certainly look more like Wing Chun than the guy in the recently posted clip fighting the Muay Thai opponent in a KOTC event. Granted, most of their structure and footwork is off from a Wing Chun perspective, but their hands are very similar.

To me these guys almost look like free Chi Sao without the rolling platform. There seems to be a rule against striking with a closed fist, though joint locks and takedowns appear to be legal. You have to give these guys credit for being willing to mix it up with very limited protective gear. I've never had the opportunity to go to any kind of Wing Chun competition, but I'd envision it looking something like this.

What do you guys think?

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=8Stx-i-S4cs

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=coDVM2cvQoM

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=JxyDEkin28k&feature=related

Thanks to Armin for pointing out these clips!


Definitely looks like Wing Chun influenced. Very interesting and thank you for posting.