uh-oh...

[Oso]

if this chiild really is the reincarnation of Durga then I wonder who she was born to do battle with.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/04/08/baby.heads.ap/index.html

[David Jamieson]

Only in countries where people are starving and drinking filthy water can you be worshiped as a god because of a birth defect that is probably brought on by the filthy water and atrocious living conditions.

I find it incredibly stupid that this is the story they wish to focus on instead of asking, why are these birth defects occur. I guess we'd rather say, "look at those silly people worshiping the deformed baby". "How odd, poor kid" etc etc.

But not much is said about the conditions that brought this about. Don't even get me going on the inequities of the caste system which although in lip service is not at play, in reality it is.

[Oso]

then maybe it's that very thing she was born to combat?????


besides, you would have to have statistics on the number of children born in india w/ birth defects, the area they live in and the caste they were born in to...as well as the very same statistics for the rest of the world...to say what you are saying.

i mean, how many autistic kids are there in india compared to the us? what about the large number of so called 'thalidomide' babies born in the us in the 70's?

which situation is really worse or more statistically damaging to the population in general?

and don't even get me started on population....to ****ed many of us anyway. you can't save every baby born to sick to live or every single person who becomes too sick to live.

in a way, modern medicine jumped way too far past the curve and h o m o sapiens sapiens have not lost the genetic emperative to reproduce, reproduce, reproduce brought about by the high percentage of infant mortality that only just stopped happening in the last 100 years or so. also, HSS still thinks like they are still a pre industrial agrarian society that needs bodies in the fields. again, technology has lept past our genetic/social coding.

:)

[David Jamieson]

http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/india_statistics.html

as for the caste info, that is a much more nebulous number, but to think that the caste system doesn't exist because of lack of statistical data is an error. anyway.

I am not making my statements totally blind. I surmise based upon accumulated knowledge over time.

[Oso]

didn't say you were making them blind, just that you would have to have those facts.

why would anyone expect a non-industrialized nation to have the same stats as an industrialized nation?

do you think that any industrialized nation would keep the same statitistics if their population were to reach that of India or China?

it seems unlikely that any industrial or technological base could support that many people all in a moderate or better condition.

do you expect everyone to have the same level of everything? didn't someone try that once?

oh, no statistics on birth defects

[David Jamieson]

a man should have whatever it is that he is capable of reaching and working for.

anywhere in the world at any time.

to accept a station in life is to accept defeat.

hey, this topic is going everywhere! :)

[Oso]

a man should have whatever it is that he is capable of reaching and working for.

i agree. i don't agree with a socially derived caste system.

but, it seems that you think that everyone is capable of reaching the same level or even that everyone is equally capable of the same thing as everyone else.


ok, that's all the office time i have for today...got to hit the road.

i fully expect this thread to be over 100 posts by the time I get to see it again tonight. :D

[David Jamieson]

i agree. i don't agree with a socially derived caste system.

but, it seems that you think that everyone is capable of reaching the same level or even that everyone is equally capable of the same thing as everyone else.


ok, that's all the office time i have for today...got to hit the road.

i fully expect this thread to be over 100 posts by the time I get to see it again tonight. :D

what is it that puts you ahead of anyone.

Not aiming that directly at you, but in context to you.

What is it that makes any of us "special" or "different"?

If we are born to a society where living is pretty easy, does that make us a better person?

If our wants are more easily obtainable, does that mean that we deserve to fulfill our desires moreso than someone else?

Yes, each and every human being is absolutely capable of achieving exactly the same thing as anyone else when we remove the factors that hold us down and press us away from our desires.

we are all 100% equal. We are not all 100% capable, but we are all 100% maleable and even with the worst case scenarios, a correction is possible.

It really isn'yt a lot to offer another person or another country a leg up.

knowledge is power, but witholding knowledge is how power is retained. This is an error on our societies part and it is to err on the side of caution. The caution is born of fear, the fear is born of mistrust, the mistrust is born of the unknown.

In truth, humans have never known liberty, justice or the pursuit of happiness as a whole. Only a small group get that at this time. Even in the country where the ideal was first expounded, it is not a truism.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

but, it seems that you think that everyone is capable of reaching the same level or even that everyone is equally capable of the same thing as everyone else.

Reply]
Short of severe physical or mental limitations, so long as there is no forced oppression by others, every Human is limited only by thier own choices.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

In truth, humans have never known liberty, justice or the pursuit of happiness as a whole. Only a small group get that at this time. Even in the country where the ideal was first expounded, it is not a truism.

Reply]
That is not really true. H0m0saipens have been around at least 160,000 years. Form almost all that time we were living in small tribal groups with minimally evasive rulers.

Real oppression is likely to have been born only in the last 10,000 years or so and is due to the rise of warefare...which stems from the idea of land ownership and land itself having value due to the rise of agriculture on a large scale.

Even then, governments were not powerful enough to effect the day to day living of too many people. Those not near standing armies or massive police forces were basically fre to do as they pleased 100 years ago.

Yes, slaves allways existed, but it took time, labor and resources to enslave others, and the population NOT being enslaved was experiencing freedom due to neglect of the enslaving forces who were concentrated on another group at the very lest...if not down right enjoying the freedom afforded by having enslaved people doing thier work for them in the first place.

So the freedom we enjoy to day has been common for the most part untill recent times when communistic/socialistic governments came to be on a large scale.

[David Jamieson]

In truth, humans have never known liberty, justice or the pursuit of happiness as a whole. Only a small group get that at this time. Even in the country where the ideal was first expounded, it is not a truism.

Reply]
That is not really true. H0m0saipens have been around at least 160,000 years. Form almost all that time we were living in small tribal groups with minimally evasive rulers.

Real oppression is likely to have been born only in the last 10,000 years or so and is due to the rise of warefare...which stems from the idea of land ownership and land itself having value due to the rise of agriculture on a large scale.

Even then, governments were not powerful enough to effect the day to day living of too many people. Those not near standing armies or massive police forces were basically fre to do as they pleased 100 years ago.

Yes, slaves allways existed, but it took time, labor and resources to enslave others, and the population NOT being enslaved was experiencing freedom due to neglect of the enslaving forces who were concentrated on another group at the very lest...if not down right enjoying the freedom afforded by having enslaved people doing thier work for them in the first place.

So the freedom we enjoy to day has been common for the most part untill recent times when communistic/socialistic governments came to be on a large scale.

You don't have freedom RD.
You don't even have choices anymore. lol

You are free to choose from those choices that are made available to you.

you can pick from a,b,c or d. But don't even ask about z because in societies opinion, z doesn't exists or at least it shouldn't.lol

My reference is that when you create a social construct, by the very nature of it, you limit your freedom should you be inside that construct.

eventually that construct becomes so large and unmanageable that it only serves itself and the people within are chewed up and spit out by the machinations of it.

We restrict ourselves from freedom inside the machine that is our society. We seek to behave like each other, dress like each other, act like each other, speak the same language and continually hack away at diversity. "the melting pot".

your freedom is melted away in the melting pot. your identity is melted away as well and all the things that are attached to that identity are erroded out from under you in favour of the great ****genization.

and, if you are different, then you are held to the fire for it you dirty hippy, you commy, you pinko, you pervert, you...this or that.

see?

not so free are you.

I can see how free I am not. I am not sure how this evades everyone else. Of course, there can be happiness for those who appreciate the safety of the gilded cage so to speak.

But for some of us...it is not like this. :)

[Black Jack II]

Sorry,

Since a lot of people are thinking it, I will say it.

What a bunch of f#ckin retards.

[David Jamieson]

no need for an apology.
your vitriol is expected!

lol

[Oso]

what is it that puts you ahead of anyone.

depends on the circumstances. everyone is likely to be better at something than someone else and worse at things than a whole lot of other people.

Not aiming that directly at you, but in context to you.

What is it that makes any of us "special" or "different"?

nothing

If we are born to a society where living is pretty easy, does that make us a better person?

If our wants are more easily obtainable, does that mean that we deserve to fulfill our desires moreso than someone else?

Yes, each and every human being is absolutely capable of achieving exactly the same thing as anyone else when we remove the factors that hold us down and press us away from our desires.

that's just not true. not everyone is capable of the same intelligence or physical aptitude. that's just genetics.

sure there are lots of people in this world that don't have the same opportunity as others and there are a lot of people of lesser aptitude who get more simply due to circumstances...but that's just life. sucks but there it is.


we are all 100% equal. We are not all 100% capable, but we are all 100% maleable and even with the worst case scenarios, a correction is possible.

what makes us all equal?

It really isn'yt a lot to offer another person or another country a leg up.

never said it was.

knowledge is power, but witholding knowledge is how power is retained. This is an error on our societies part and it is to err on the side of caution. The caution is born of fear, the fear is born of mistrust, the mistrust is born of the unknown.

In truth, humans have never known liberty, justice or the pursuit of happiness as a whole. Only a small group get that at this time. Even in the country where the ideal was first expounded, it is not a truism.

agreed, but what do you do?

[David Jamieson]

what I do may not be what you do, but here is a few small examples of what I do.

Listen to the voice you want to hear least and try to find reason in it. If it's not there, it's not there, leave it at that and move on. Point it out and move on.

Do not participate in market economy practices that uphold the purse strings of those whoes practices offend you.

For me, this means I don't shop at walmart, I don't eat at McDonalds, I don't drive American cars and I don't buy Chinese or Indian goods in the market place. Also, I don't get my news from a single source and do not give the creedence to mainstream media that they crave. they simply are not the voice of credibility anymore in my views and therefor, I seek alternate sources of information as often as possible. Wherever it is possible that I am conscious of the source, then I will behave according to my compass ethically and morally towards that source.

Mostly, it comes down to treating each and every human being as if they were your brother or sister whenever it is possible to do so. that is the simplest and best solution in my opinion.

If there is conflict, so be it. But like the buddha says, anger is self defeating because it is akin to holding a burning coal with the intention of throwing it at someone. Well, only you will get burned by it. :-)

But, anger that can be constructively acted upon is a whole different ball of moss. :-)

You can do a lot as an individual. It is surprising how much you can do actually.