Thoughts on TCMA in MMA

[Rojcewicz]

I've been practicing Northern Shaolin Long Fist with Sifu Kevin
Miller in Memphis TN for about two years now, and, just reasently,
i visited his masters school in Chicago where one of the long time black belts has been training for MMA fighting.

The black belt has won his first fight, tapping the guy out 30 seconds, and he is an incredibly skilled teacher to work with. Thinking about how the black belt fought when we were sparring, how he looked just like any other skilled MMA fighter in terms of technique, I began to think about why their was nothing particularly "kung fu" about the way he fights.

The answer i've come to is that the many styles of kung fu, excluding Sanda and contemporary wushu, were developed for no rule street fighting , im not saying that kickboxing, MMA, and other sport based combat forms are useless on the streets (many sport fighters would woop poorly trained TMA's). What im saying is that the many techniques and options of kung fu are based in a format where their is no right way, no set environment, no rules, meaning that their is no way to come to a perfect method of fighting as the context of a street fight is never the same.

In MMA one fights in a set environment, with set rules, what this creates is an almost permanent context, whats called a constant in science. This means that with every MMA bout, just like an experiment, the techniques and methods of the practitioners can be modified to better suit the specific context of an MMA cage, rule set, etc.

the conclusion is that a well trained Kung Fu practitioner, like the black belt I spoke of, can have great success but not without adaption. kickboxing (or muay thai)/ jujitsu (or wrestling), combination has already been found to be arguably the most effective combination for an MMA environment and rule set. I don't believe that one will ever see the wide rage of Kung Fu techniques and methods on display in the MMA venue; not because they are not effective, but because, unlike the street, the MMA environment offers a set context where a perfect combination of techniques and methods can exist and one must adopt in order to succeed

[cranky old man]

well said my man

[monji112000]

I've been practicing Northern Shaolin Long Fist with Sifu Kevin
Miller in Memphis TN for about two years now, and, just reasently,
i visited his masters school in Chicago where one of the long time black belts has been training for MMA fighting. The black belt has won his first fight, tapping the guy out 30 seconds,

....stuff........

the conclusion is that a well trained Kung Fu practitioner, like the black belt I spoke of, can have great success but not without adaption.

.....more stuff....


He trains northern shaolin and he tapped someone in a MMA fight? Don't tell he he pull some old school standing Chin na. Remember you said WITHOUT ADAPTION.
Honestly I'm willing to bet money that if you posted the clip of him winning, its going to look like any other fight. So what Northern Shaolin submission did he use? If you say... rnc,guilitine, key-lock,armbar, triangle or any none Northern Shaolin technique your going to contradict yourself.

Its not as easy as it looks. Just becouse you can spar decently with your friends doesn't mean you should compete in MMA. If they had some type of amature MMA then that may be a good idea.

No matter how you look at it, you going into the fight with a massive disadvantage without basic ground skills. Someone with only a few months of training is probably going to smoke you if it goes to the ground.

What about conditioning? I think conditioning is the most important factor not what style you train. Give me a crappy TKD fighter with basic ground skills and amazing conditioning.. he probably would do pretty good at a low level MMA fight.
Take some TMA guy with good sparring skills, and no ground game, and average person conditioning... Hope you have good medical insurance. ;)

Its fun to watch, and even to train a little but..

JMO

as a general rule of thumb if you have a Black belt in any style other than BJJ/JUDO.. you probably don't want to do MMA. Who has belts anyway these days?

[Rojcewicz]

I said he DID have to adapt in order to do well in MMA, and the need for a ground game in MMA is not something I question. The statement was that the MMA venue, like all sport venues, is a set context, a set system of rules (with some variation) and a set environment which means there can exist a more "right" method of fighting in MMA; unlike reality fighting which has too many variables to determine a "right" way. A Kung Fu practitioner can have all the skills necessary (sometimes more so) but will always have to adopt the MMA fighting method to be successful.

[monji112000]

I said he DID have to adapt in order to do well in MMA, and the need for a ground game in MMA is not something I question. The statement was that the MMA venue, like all sport venues, is a set context, a set system of rules (with some variation) and a set environment which means there can exist a more "right" method of fighting in MMA; unlike reality fighting which has too many variables to determine a "right" way. A Kung Fu practitioner can have all the skills necessary (sometimes more so) but will always have to adopt the MMA fighting method to be successful.

again the style you come from plays less of a role in MMA vrs conditioning, training, and being "well rounded". If by kung fu you mean Sanda/san shou sure. If on the other hand you mean something like what you see in a wushu competition, its not to realistic. 90% of what you would see isn't applicable. We can play semantics on whether they are or not. The basic universal strikes are found in probably every style. Outside of those basic universal strikes, its not going to be practical. The underlying truth again isn't that I come from a "kung fu" background. its am I prepared for the fight. Given the average "kung fu" training the answer is probably no. Just watch MMA, you will quickly find that everyone comes from TMA. Does Bas do things the way Cro cop or Chuck does? What about
GSP? or fill in the blank.

Everyone who is into MMA knows that no "right" way exists. Fads exists, and they come and go. MMA is filled with a variety of fighters in both areas of standup and ground fighting. Everyone trains some version of MT and some version of BJJ. If they don't it "looks" like these styles. Sanda "looks" like MT. CSW or whatever "looks" like BJJ. What I mean by looks is that it has similar techniques, training methods and tactics. Yet They are all obviously vastly different.

[Ravenshaw]

The answer i've come to is that the many styles of kung fu, excluding Sanda and contemporary wushu, were developed for no rule street fighting , im not saying that kickboxing, MMA, and other sport based combat forms are useless on the streets (many sport fighters would woop poorly trained TMA's). What im saying is that the many techniques and options of kung fu are based in a format where their is no right way, no set environment, no rules, meaning that their is no way to come to a perfect method of fighting as the context of a street fight is never the same.

This is mere theory.

If your kung fu works, the ring doesn't magically make it not work.

[SifuAbel]

Its too bad. Monji here only seems to see the outer skin of things in a very superficial way.

I would actually like to see a clip of what this guy's Si-Hing is doing.


90% of what you would see isn't applicable..........


........in your view. And only to the small limits of YOUR knowledge.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I have said this often, the RULE SET will dictate the "look" of any fight.

[AdrianUK]

I have seen alot of these kinds of debate, from the TMA side to the MMA side, I wonder where TMA seems to fail ? Is it only ground work ? Are there any advantages to TMA specific strikes or delivery methods ? I don't know enough about mma rules but what striking common to tma's is not allowed in mma that could be limiting it or is it really that the tma community does not want to train for this format of fighting ?

Thanks for any replies

[sanjuro_ronin]

I have seen alot of these kinds of debate, from the TMA side to the MMA side, I wonder where TMA seems to fail ? Is it only ground work ? Are there any advantages to TMA specific strikes or delivery methods ? I don't know enough about mma rules but what striking common to tma's is not allowed in mma that could be limiting it or is it really that the tma community does not want to train for this format of fighting ?

Thanks for any replies

TMA don't fail in MMA, their techniques are present in MMA.
Its when a fighter that trains solely in one TMA that he/she fails in MMA.

[AdrianUK]

TMA don't fail in MMA, their techniques are present in MMA.
Its when a fighter that trains solely in one TMA that he/she fails in MMA.

Is that really the case ? Of the limited MMA I have seen (Cage Rage, early UFC, some Pride) the few TMA guys seem to be unable to land effective strikes (discounting the ground work), does that not point to a delivery system failure ? Why does the TMA delivery model fail even at the striking level ? I would guess at the training of the delivery failing under pressure but surely this should be the easiest thing to correct ?

[MasterKiller]

Training method > style

[Drake]

I hate tournament fighting. You can't rip out their eyes, which is normally the best way to win a fight. I promise you... take an eye...just one, and victory is yours.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Is that really the case ? Of the limited MMA I have seen (Cage Rage, early UFC, some Pride) the few TMA guys seem to be unable to land effective strikes (discounting the ground work), does that not point to a delivery system failure ? Why does the TMA delivery model fail even at the striking level ? I would guess at the training of the delivery failing under pressure but surely this should be the easiest thing to correct ?

answered:


Training method > style

Outside some of the "newest inventions" in MMA, the high percentage moves are all found in TMA, so its not the TMA techniques that fail, its how they are applied by certain fighters, ie: training method like MK said.

[1bad65]

If your kung fu works, the ring doesn't magically make it not work.

Quoted for truth.

[1bad65]

Training method > style

This is partially true, but not 100%.

IMO, no one is 'tougher' than boxers. But you put a good, tough boxer in an MMA fight he will lose more often than not. Although training methods are quite important, you need to train in effective styles for striking, grappling, and the clinch.

[SoCo KungFu]

I hate tournament fighting. You can't rip out their eyes, which is normally the best way to win a fight. I promise you... take an eye...just one, and victory is yours.

Kinda like....
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2002/Mar/27/ln/ln01a.html
March 2002:

Finally, the boy stuck four fingers in the shark's eye, gouged the eye out, and the shark released him, Punua said.

[MasterKiller]

This is partially true, but not 100%.

IMO, no one is 'tougher' than boxers. But you put a good, tough boxer in an MMA fight he will lose more often than not. Although training methods are quite important, you need to train in effective styles for striking, grappling, and the clinch.

MMA is not a style, it's a rule set. One must always compensate for rule-sets.

[Drake]

Kinda like....
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2002/Mar/27/ln/ln01a.html
March 2002:

Sharks aren't immune to the eye rule.

[SoCo KungFu]

Sharks aren't immune to the eye rule.

So since sharks aren't immune to the eye rule...and since sharks (or their ancestors) have been around since the dinosaurs right? So they must be pretty bad @$$...So with the issues brought up in this thread:
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50632

Is it possible to say maybe our ancestors knew this? And went on an eye gouging spree and ended the age of the dinos? And if some nut job scientist makes a real life Jurassic Park and they get loose to the threat of common man...we may take up arms....and phalanges...to defend ourselves from the onslought of ravenous reptiles?

[AdrianUK]

Training method > style


When did the training method become disconnected from the style ? Surely a mistake or the result of a lack of realistic sparring ?

[sanjuro_ronin]

When did the training method become disconnected from the style ? Surely a mistake or the result of a lack of realistic sparring ?

Are you suggesting that every gym/school within a given style trains the same?

[Drake]

So since sharks aren't immune to the eye rule...and since sharks (or their ancestors) have been around since the dinosaurs right? So they must be pretty bad @$$...So with the issues brought up in this thread:
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50632

Is it possible to say maybe our ancestors knew this? And went on an eye gouging spree and ended the age of the dinos? And if some nut job scientist makes a real life Jurassic Park and they get loose to the threat of common man...we may take up arms....and phalanges...to defend ourselves from the onslought of ravenous reptiles?

If by some miracle you can get around the razor sharp teeth, sword-length claws, and remarkable physical prowess, you can disable a dino with an eye gouge. At least I'm pretty sure. If not, at least you gave it your best shot, right?? It sucks being built like a twinkie in a land of predators, and the eye gouge may be your only hope.

[SoCo KungFu]

If by some miracle you can get around the razor sharp teeth, sword-length claws, and remarkable physical prowess, you can disable a dino with an eye gouge. At least I'm pretty sure. If not, at least you gave it your best shot, right?? It sucks being built like a twinkie in a land of predators, and the eye gouge may be your only hope.

Surely there must be some way to use modern technology to our advantage right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interceptor_body_armor

Where is Alex Tao? Doesn't he have the super deadly 2 finger secret sword technique?

[Drake]

Surely there must be some way to use modern technology to our advantage right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interceptor_body_armor

Where is Alex Tao? Doesn't he have the super deadly 2 finger secret sword technique?

Does nothing to protect you from dismemberment...

Honestly, even if I had a locked and loaded M-16A2, I would still NOT engage a velociraptor unless ABSOLUTELY necessary.

[gabe]

MMA is not a style, it's a rule set. One must always compensate for rule-sets.

This is the truth. The best MMAists maximize the rule set. If what they currently do in the ring works, why change it other than to keep getting better at the same methods. There is a whole world of techniques not seen in MMA events, not because they are not effective, just because there is no need to add to what they are doing, which is complicated as it is. There is already a whole world of techniques within the ruleset.

You start seeing new things in MMA when one person starts making them work and others realize that it might not be so "low percentage." That low percentage can be attributed to low priority in training. Things evolve, but only if the ruleset allows.

Make headbutts legal and the whole ground game changes to compensate. That is not a "too deadly" position, it is recognition of the rules.

The blackbelt is going to do what works for him, what wins matches. It's risky to try incorporating things others don't do-nobody wants to invest in loss.

[SoCo KungFu]

Does nothing to protect you from dismemberment...

Honestly, even if I had a locked and loaded M-16A2, I would still NOT engage a velociraptor unless ABSOLUTELY necessary.

You're absolutely right...we need full body protection

http://www.sciencentral.com/articles/view.php3?type=article&article_id=218392807

[Eric Olson]

IMHO, TCMA are actually like mixed martial arts its just that the scope of what they would incorporate was bigger....weapons, philosophy, medical training....whatever was useful.

It was designed to make you successful in the "big ring" of life...self-defense or whatever.

However, as hand to hand combat became increasing irrelevant. As scientific based medical treatment is readily available, at least more available than in ancient china.....the scope of traditional martial arts training remains is too big.

Add to that the fact that most people don't have time to train all the "modalities" of traditional martial arts to a high level.

The scope of MMA is much smaller. Its applied to a specific situation with a certain ruleset. Its mixed in the sense that incorporates what can help you win in the context of the ring but that's it. That it allows it to be more focused and develop certain skills to a higher level.

My basic point is that in any discussion of MMA and TCMA you need to look at the scope of issues that these methodologies are trying to address.

MMA is smaller in scope, TCMA is larger in scope.

They can be complementary though, provided you have the time to do all that training. Most people don't, so they have to choose.

EO

[sanjuro_ronin]

Bah, you guys are obivously ignorant of the Dim Mak points that render all dinosaurs helpless.
Besides, its not sharks you have to look out for, its dolphins !!

[SoCo KungFu]

Bah, you guys are obivously ignorant of the Dim Mak points that render all dinosaurs helpless.
Besides, its not sharks you have to look out for, its dolphins !!

But but but....what if it spreads???
http://www.gaydinosaur.com/

Remember its not just gay...its disco fresh!

[sanjuro_ronin]

But but but....what if it spreads???
http://www.gaydinosaur.com/

Remember its not just gay...its disco fresh!

Oivey !!
Isn't this one of the signs of the apocolypse ?

[Rojcewicz]

Quoted for truth.

no its not the ring that makes your kung fu not work. the black belt I spoke of in my original post, the guy who has been successful in MMA, his skills came from kung fu but in order to adapt to MMA he had to narrow his focus to the techniques and methods which are proven effective in the MMA format, while many techniques have to be let go of.

[DragonzRage]

By your own statement there was nothing "kung fu" about the way he fights, and he won his fight by submission. So yeah... his skills came from kung fu, cuz we all know how effective Northern Shaolin submission techniques are... riiiight.

I agree with you on one point: its not the ring that makes kung fu not work. Much of kung fu just doesn't work that well, period... at least not nearly as fluidly and functionally as modern MA training.

There is NOTHING about MMA rules that negate the principles and structures of kung fu styles, and its just comical how so many practitioners of 'traditional' styles still want to cling to the rationalization of, "If you can't poke the eyes or kick the ballz, then its not kung fu, because kung fu is streetfighting." An MMA trained fighter with an ounce of common sense will poke the eyes or crush the nuts in a street fight (if he has to) just as much as any kung fu guy. Its not like it takes 20 yrs of horse stance and chi-gung training to figure out how to aim an inside leg thai kick at the gonads or stick your fingers in someone's eyes.

Do MMA rules forbid punching, kicking, elbows, standing joint locks, sweeps, trapping, sticking hands, etc? No. Yet still, kung fu guys have only either gotten their a$$es handed to them, or have fought using methods that in no way resemble any kung fu structure. How in the world can you attribute that all to the mere fact that MMA doesn't allow dirty techniques? You can't, it just doesn't make any kind of sense whatsoever. What you can attribute it to is the repeatedly demonstrated fact that modern MMA training derived from the core styles (BJJ/mixed grappling, wrestling, boxing, Muay Thai based kickboxing) is plain and simply functionally far superior as an unarmed fighting method than styles like kung fu. Now I'm not saying there's nothing of any real value in kung fu. IMO, an open minded and intelligent MA'ist can find something unique and valuable in any style in existence. What I am saying is that overall, if you want to develop functional fighting skills, MMA is better...plain and simple. You can disagree if you want using whatever rationalizations you like, but you'll find yourself at odds with all the empirical evidence you can find.

[monji112000]

This is partially true, but not 100%.

IMO, no one is 'tougher' than boxers. But you put a good, tough boxer in an MMA fight he will lose more often than not. Although training methods are quite important, you need to train in effective styles for striking, grappling, and the clinch.

I often wonder if a wold class boxer, could handle himself in MMA if he cross trains in a limited way. If he becomes competent in defending against leg attacks, and clinching. If he a has a decent wrestling ability. Sure he stops being just a boxer, but I think he could be a strong contender.

Most of the top guys are better at one area or another. A boxer is is better at one area. Mayweather could easily make a transition if he trains correctly.

JMO

[Rojcewicz]

By your own statement there was nothing "kung fu" about the way he fights, and he won his fight by submission. So yeah... his skills came from kung fu, cuz we all know how effective Northern Shaolin submission techniques are... riiiight.

I agree with you on one point: its not the ring that makes kung fu not work. Much of kung fu just doesn't work that well, period... at least not nearly as fluidly and functionally as modern MA training.

There is NOTHING about MMA rules that negate the principles and structures of kung fu styles, and its just comical how so many practitioners of 'traditional' styles still want to cling to the rationalization of, "If you can't poke the eyes or kick the ballz, then its not kung fu, because kung fu is streetfighting." An MMA trained fighter with an ounce of common sense will poke the eyes or crush the nuts in a street fight (if he has to) just as much as any kung fu guy. Its not like it takes 20 yrs of horse stance and chi-gung training to figure out how to aim an inside leg thai kick at the gonads or stick your fingers in someone's eyes.

Do MMA rules forbid punching, kicking, elbows, standing joint locks, sweeps, trapping, sticking hands, etc? No. Yet still, kung fu guys have only either gotten their a$$es handed to them, or have fought using methods that in no way resemble any kung fu structure. How in the world can you attribute that all to the mere fact that MMA doesn't allow dirty techniques? You can't, it just doesn't make any kind of sense whatsoever. What you can attribute it to is the repeatedly demonstrated fact that modern MMA training derived from the core styles (BJJ/mixed grappling, wrestling, boxing, Muay Thai based kickboxing) is plain and simply functionally far superior as an unarmed fighting method than styles like kung fu. Now I'm not saying there's nothing of any real value in kung fu. IMO, an open minded and intelligent MA'ist can find something unique and valuable in any style in existence. What I am saying is that overall, if you want to develop functional fighting skills, MMA is better...plain and simple. You can disagree if you want using whatever rationalizations you like, but you'll find yourself at odds with all the empirical evidence you can find.

I didn't say anything about dirty techniques, although nearly all of Brazilian jujitsu is useless if someone is targeting your eyes and balls and his buddies mite stomp your head, its true that anyone can do that. Your right that the techniques you listed are legal and could be used, but what you dont realize is that a GOOD Kung Fu school will teach you everything a MMA teacher can (excluding jujitsu). How to punch, kick, wrestle, and defend correctly, but you will also learn an incredible amount of techniques which a MMA instructor will not teach as they are not necessary or irrelevent in an environment where gloves are worn, the floor is padded, and rules exist. Sifu Carlos, the black belt who tapped the guy out, simply had to place his focus on the most effective methods of fighting in MMA, meaning that he worked more ground skills, and he has been extremely successful. In his own words, "all fighting is the same", a kung fu practitioner who cant strike and defend well after extensive training is simply not doing right or physically incapable.

and another thing about kung fu "structure". All stances and drills are for the training of coordination, strength, speed, and other attributes, and have nothing to do with the way a fighter looks, a good kung fu fighter will "look" the same in the ring as a practitioner of many other styles.

Lastly, MMA is "better" at teaching fighting skills? The reason it look so much better is that when you give an example of what MMA looks like you point at world class, professionals fighters. Just because most skilled kung fu teachers are not known beyond their schools does not mean they don't exist. I've been doing northern shaolin for about 2 years and my friend shawn has been doing Muay Thai for about the same, but when we spar i generally win, not because he doesn't work hard enough at what he does, but because he lacks the fundamentals of structure, the foundation, something I think he would learn much more effectively if he took a break from pounding on pads and bags and simply sat in a high horse stance, hands chambered, and just concentrated solely on the motion of his strikes.

[SoCo KungFu]

Oivey !!
Isn't this one of the signs of the apocolypse ?

It must be! And they're on to us, not only have they evolved to learn our only advantage....but they're technologically superior!!!:eek:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNBGLlgEQe0

No Its Not Awesome!!

[monji112000]

I didn't say anything about dirty techniques, although nearly all of Brazilian jujitsu is useless if someone is targeting your eyes and balls and his buddies mite stomp your head, its true that anyone can do that.

while nothing can be done about his friends (other than your friends watching you back). The whole "dirty tactics" destroys nearly all "Brazilian" JJ isn't really a smart argument.
Go look at all the original Gracie matches on tape. I seem to remember allot of cheap shots. The fact will always remain that If I have you in a dominant position, the most you maybe could do is bite me. If I have you pined properly in a variety of positions, I can fish hook, eye "poke" and many more things , while you can't. Thats why its called a dominant position. If your going to bring up the "guard" and how its not a smart position, and how you can still attack with power.. you are 100% correct. Thats why people use the rubber guard. A properly controlled opponent should have very little he can do. That includes "dirty" tactics.
Is everyone going to be able to control every opponent.. no.


All that being said most people have friends, and who would want to risk rolling around in a bar? That doesn't mean I wouldn't do some quick GnP from Knee on belly or mount.


a GOOD Kung Fu school will teach you everything a MMA teacher can (excluding jujitsu)
I think it really depends on the teacher and the school. I know a few "Kung fu" teachers that could fit that bill but they are not the norm.

I didn't see the submission that was used by the "Kung Fu" Fighter. Is this a submission from a Northern Shaolin form?

MMA is a nice sport, but so is hockey.

[Rojcewicz]

while nothing can be done about his friends (other than your friends watching you back). The whole "dirty tactics" destroys nearly all "Brazilian" JJ isn't really a smart argument.
Go look at all the original Gracie matches on tape. I seem to remember allot of cheap shots. The fact will always remain that If I have you in a dominant position, the most you maybe could do is bite me. If I have you pined properly in a variety of positions, I can fish hook, eye "poke" and many more things , while you can't. Thats why its called a dominant position. If your going to bring up the "guard" and how its not a smart position, and how you can still attack with power.. you are 100% correct. Thats why people use the rubber guard. A properly controlled opponent should have very little he can do. That includes "dirty" tactics.
Is everyone going to be able to control every opponent.. no.


All that being said most people have friends, and who would want to risk rolling around in a bar? That doesn't mean I wouldn't do some quick GnP from Knee on belly or mount.


I think it really depends on the teacher and the school. I know a few "Kung fu" teachers that could fit that bill but they are not the norm.

I didn't see the submission that was used by the "Kung Fu" Fighter. Is this a submission from a Northern Shaolin form?

MMA is a nice sport, but so is hockey.

I agree, about the dominant position and the submission he used was a standing guillotine, pretty standard for most martial arts.

[monji112000]

I agree, about the dominant position and the submission he used was a standing guillotine, pretty standard for most martial arts.

:rolleyes: Ok.;)

I remember my days at ____ traditional Kung Fu school. All the key locks we learned... the iron toad rnc and the flying squirrel arm bar and triangle choke. To be honest I did learn a basic standing arm lock, that would probably work. Its the one Aoki did in some MMA fight.

[lkfmdc]

I didn't say anything about dirty techniques, although nearly all of Brazilian jujitsu is useless if someone is targeting your eyes and balls and his buddies mite stomp your head,



we've stepped in a time machine and gone back to 1993 :rolleyes:

please go to a BJJ school, challenge them, tell them you want to be able to bite and eye gouge, they will agree (I assure you), then report back the results....

[greendragon]

You must admit that intent is a major component of winning a fight. An advanced level practitioner would not have an urge to endanger themself by competing in a sport or having intent to hurt someone. MMA fighters are very tough and dangerous guys, the only way I feel I could defeat one would be to use deadly force. Why would I want to put myself in such an ugly situation ? It is for the young aggressive inexperienced youth or the mal adjusted criminal mind.
I compare it to the combat soldier who starts out being gung ho, but after all the killing finds the value of life and peace.
An advanced level TMA evolves into meditation, healing arts, etc. and that does not mean they would not have what it takes to apply their skills.
Where did MMA come from ? and simplicity is the essence.
You may flame away, but I am entitled to my opinion. I know from experience that my TMA work on the street. And only the very best of fighters will "look" like they are using MA during a fight, that is if you don't blink.

[lkfmdc]

An advanced level practitioner would not have an urge to endanger themself by competing in a sport or having intent to hurt someone. MMA fighters are very tough and dangerous guys, the only way I feel I could defeat one would be to use deadly force. Why would I want to put myself in such an ugly situation ?



Denile, it's not just a river in Egypt :rolleyes:

[greendragon]

Sifu Ross, respectfully, what percentage of your fighting skill comes from Lama KF (TMA) and how much from MMA ?

[AdrianUK]

Are you suggesting that every gym/school within a given style trains the same?


Exactly ! Go to a boxing gym, they probably train pretty much the same, BJJ same thing, I would wager all effective styles do, its called training how you fight, TMA seems to have lost that somewhere, I would like to know if this is accepted in the TMA community or we are still labouring under a delusion that the style cannot police itself ? You want to police the training in your system then make the training work, not in theory but in practice. I have to ask myself, do I train in TCMA because I think it works or because I happen to like the training ? At the moment I am forced to think its the latter

[Ravenshaw]

Exactly ! Go to a boxing gym, they probably train pretty much the same, BJJ same thing, I would wager all effective styles do, its called training how you fight, TMA seems to have lost that somewhere, I would like to know if this is accepted in the TMA community or we are still labouring under a delusion that the style cannot police itself ? You want to police the training in your system then make the training work, not in theory but in practice. I have to ask myself, do I train in TCMA because I think it works or because I happen to like the training ? At the moment I am forced to think its the latter

The Chinese masters I've worked with only teach what students have the initiative to work on their own. If you just come to class, do your horse stance, do your forms, and go, that's all you learn. We got sparring instruction only when we really pushed for it, to the point of organizing sparring on our own.

As a result, the majority of the students produced by both teachers don't fight. I never said it was the perfect approach.

Your mileage may vary.

[sanjuro_ronin]

we've stepped in a time machine and gone back to 1993 :rolleyes:

please go to a BJJ school, challenge them, tell them you want to be able to bite and eye gouge, they will agree (I assure you), then report back the results....

Anyone that has the belief that certain moves will work VS a BJJ player can indeed do this, almost every school is open to it.
Heck, go to a boxing gym and they will oblige you too, same thing for MT.
Even in kyokushin we had a few walk ins in my time :D

[Rojcewicz]

Anyone that has the belief that certain moves will work VS a BJJ player can indeed do this, almost every school is open to it.
Heck, go to a boxing gym and they will oblige you too, same thing for MT.
Even in kyokushin we had a few walk ins in my time :D

Yes, everyone understands that both people can do it, the point is that when such moves are allowed, even the BJJ player will stop trying to put you in an arm bar in exchange for groin smashing.

which is to say that anyone can streetfight, you dont need to learn a martial art for it. The question is does your martial training take you above chaotic brawling, does it give you control?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Yes, everyone understands that both people can do it, the point is that when such moves are allowed, even the BJJ player will stop trying to put you in an arm bar in exchange for groin smashing.

which is to say that anyone can streetfight, you dont need to learn a martial art for it. The question is does your martial training take you above chaotic brawling, does it give you control?

I don't hold much stock in any system that advocates "the deadly" as the answer to all of lifes mysteries, I find them to be impractical and more often than not, low caliber.
Eye gouges, groin strikes, fish hooking and things of that ilk I knew before I even dedicated my self to MA, so what is the big deal?
Do they work?
Heck spitting chewing tabaco in the eyes works, chair across the face works very well, your point?

The control issue is a good one, but at the same time we have to realize that control is fluid and not static, which is where I think many "ant-grapplers" get confused, they see the fact that a grappler is close enough that they can do dirty move A, B or C, and forget that, not only can the grappler do those, but they he is never just "there" for you to do them on him.

[monji112000]

The question is does your martial training take you above chaotic brawling, does it give you control?
Most often no. That goes for allot of Martial Arts training. We as a culture don't really have what it takes to engulf ourselves in the level of training each art requires. Often time health, school, work ect.. gets in the way.

How does that have to do with the sport of BJJ or fighting a grappler (who may be wearing a cup so groin shots are out.)

If we are talking anything goes just shoot the guy. Or carry a knife. Pepper spray ect..

[SoCo KungFu]

.)If we are talking anything goes just shoot the guy. Or carry a knife. Pepper spray ect..

And in this one sentence you can summarize the fall of martial arts. Ever since the invention of impact weaponry, martial arts (as a hand to hand method) declined into becoming obsolete. Its no coincedence that the samurai fell in Japan, likelise the kung fu masters of China, the Native Americans, the European Knight... And in one or two generations after a culture encountered guns, and had means to procure them themselves, their previous means of fighting are thrown out. Yeah the traditions of Karate, Kung Fu, Native American MA, etc. are carried on....but the martial aspect is no longer necessary to human existance....so the methods which made them into viable methods are no longer continued by the everyday citizen. After all, its just easier to get a tazer gun...and they come in those nice cute colors now that can match a purse or a "man-bag" or whatever...

(Of course I'm speaking in generalizations...everyone knows that one guy, that whatever MA he did, you would rather have your nuts straped to a car battery than to end up on the wrong side in a bar fight)

On the contrary, the so called "sport" MA (ie. MT, Judo, Wrestling, Boxing, BJJ) still maintain the concept of "training to fight." And not only maintained, but improved upon through various means to their specific venue...thus improving the development of their skillset. Why, because they are there to do just that. That is why those systems achieve greater results.

The problem is that we have things like law, civility and ethics...and we as decent human beings just can't go around shanking every douche bag thats gives us the finger. So now all these MA are struggling to get back what they gave up. The problem is that the majority don't want to change.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Well said.

[1bad65]

I didn't say anything about dirty techniques, although nearly all of Brazilian jujitsu is useless if someone is targeting your eyes and balls and his buddies mite stomp your head, its true that anyone can do that.

You seem to have forgotten the JFS/Osiris fight. Osiris' BJJ sure didn't look useless! ;)

JFS went for an eye gouge, and got bitten by the BJJ player for his efforts. JFS also had Omar there, yet Omar did not stomp Osiris.

That fight looked EXACTLY like the challenge matches in the Gracie tapes, and that fight really was in the street and not in a gym on a mat.

[DragonzRage]

"On the contrary, the so called "sport" MA (ie. MT, Judo, Wrestling, Boxing, BJJ) still maintain the concept of "training to fight." And not only maintained, but improved upon through various means to their specific venue...thus improving the development of their skillset. Why, because they are there to do just that. That is why those systems achieve greater results. "

-Exactly right.

I think that the idea that ancient kung fu masters were such deadlier and sophisticated fist fighters than their counterparts today is one of the biggest fallacies of martial arts culture. The truth of the matter is that people in Ming dynasty China or feudal Japan didn't depend on hand to hand combat for survival anymore than people do today. Even if guns weren't invented yet, villains and criminals still had blades, bows, clubs, horses, etc. The poor Chinese village peasant wasn't oppressed by white-eyebrowed kung fu villains who strolled into town killing all the local kung fu masters with shadowless sidekicks and dim mak punches. The poor peasant was oppressed by large gangs of marauders who rode lightning fast into the village on horseback, hacking, slashing, bashing, and shooting arrows. Now if you think any form of h2h skill in and of itself, (whether it be wing chun, muay thai or anything else) would've been much use in situations like that... then you really need more common sense.

So I seriously doubt that the baddest mofos around back then were sifus teaching animal forms to local tea merchants and noodle makers behind closed doors in town training halls. Nope, the baddest mofos were probably Royal bodyguards, elite shock troop units, high end private security groups, etc. While people like them definitely had some degree of training in unarmed combat, do you really think they would've spent a great amount of time perfecting h2h as opposed to various weapons skills, small unit military tactics, etc?

I really don't think the science of unarmed fighting became truly refined UNTIL it became a sport. Because sport has and always will be the only arena where its practical to spend a lot of effort training and perfecting those kinds of skills. For example, Muay Thai was developed into a streamlined and functional brawling style by generations of Thai fighters competing in the ring, not by Thai soldiers kicking people in the battlefield.

For this reason, I think martial arts such as Muay Thai, submission wrestling, etc that were refined through generations of competition between practitioners will always be much more functional than styles such as kung fu, which are supposedly meant for no-rules combat rather than sport, but nevertheless stem mostly from a tradition of practicing secretly behind closed doors and theorizing in a static environment without enough actual testing. Thats not to say that training in sport arts in and of itself is the end all be all. Obviously there are real world circumstances that sport training do not address. If you want your skills to translate well to real world scenarios, you should still do some degree of street oriented training (such as you might find in methods like JKD and Krav Maga). But still, you need to develop the basic skills and physical attributes essential to a functional foundation through the so-called 'sport' styles before you depend solely on 'dirty fighting' and theoretical street self defense.

[Lucas]

That fight looked EXACTLY like the challenge matches in the Gracie tapes

not even close

[Rojcewicz]

"On the contrary, the so called "sport" MA (ie. MT, Judo, Wrestling, Boxing, BJJ) still maintain the concept of "training to fight." And not only maintained, but improved upon through various means to their specific venue...thus improving the development of their skillset. Why, because they are there to do just that. That is why those systems achieve greater results. "

-Exactly right.

I think that the idea that ancient kung fu masters were such deadlier and sophisticated fist fighters than their counterparts today is one of the biggest fallacies of martial arts culture. The truth of the matter is that people in Ming dynasty China or feudal Japan didn't depend on hand to hand combat for survival anymore than people do today. Even if guns weren't invented yet, villains and criminals still had blades, bows, clubs, horses, etc. The poor Chinese village peasant wasn't oppressed by white-eyebrowed kung fu villains who strolled into town killing all the local kung fu masters with shadowless sidekicks and dim mak punches. The poor peasant was oppressed by large gangs of marauders who rode lightning fast into the village on horseback, hacking, slashing, bashing, and shooting arrows. Now if you think any form of h2h skill in and of itself, (whether it be wing chun, muay thai or anything else) would've been much use in situations like that... then you really need more common sense.

So I seriously doubt that the baddest mofos around back then were sifus teaching animal forms to local tea merchants and noodle makers behind closed doors in town training halls. Nope, the baddest mofos were probably Royal bodyguards, elite shock troop units, high end private security groups, etc. While people like them definitely had some degree of training in unarmed combat, do you really think they would've spent a great amount of time perfecting h2h as opposed to various weapons skills, small unit military tactics, etc?

I really don't think the science of unarmed fighting became truly refined UNTIL it became a sport. Because sport has and always will be the only arena where its practical to spend a lot of effort training and perfecting those kinds of skills. For example, Muay Thai was developed into a streamlined and functional brawling style by generations of Thai fighters competing in the ring, not by Thai soldiers kicking people in the battlefield.

For this reason, I think martial arts such as Muay Thai, submission wrestling, etc that were refined through generations of competition between practitioners will always be much more functional than styles such as kung fu, which are supposedly meant for no-rules combat rather than sport, but nevertheless stem mostly from a tradition of practicing secretly behind closed doors and theorizing in a static environment without enough actual testing. Thats not to say that training in sport arts in and of itself is the end all be all. Obviously there are real world circumstances that sport training do not address. If you want your skills to translate well to real world scenarios, you should still do some degree of street oriented training (such as you might find in methods like JKD and Krav Maga). But still, you need to develop the basic skills and physical attributes essential to a functional foundation through the so-called 'sport' styles before you depend solely on 'dirty fighting' and theoretical street self defense.

I agree, but their is nothing inherit in kung fu which tells one not to do practical combat training, all that is inherit is the use of drills, stances, and forms to construct a solid foundation from which all other skills will be born from.
Its my personal experience that many sport arts do not offer such a focus on foundation and focus to much on a single arena, thus creating an effective but ultimately limited fighter as age or injury strip him of his capacity to fight in the ring and your left with little besides memories.

[1bad65]

not even close

It followed the same 'takedown, mount, punch, fight over' recipe those fights did.

Had JFS rolled over instead of verbally quitting, he would have been choked out.

[1bad65]

The bottom line is that Osiris was a relative beginner (Blue Belt) in a 'sport' Martial Art. He got into a no rules streetfight with an opponent around 80 punds bigger and he forced the other guy to quit with no injury to himself.

Isn't that how a Martial Art is supposed to work in a self-defense situation?

[Lucas]

It followed the same 'takedown, mount, punch, fight over' recipe those fights did.

Had JFS rolled over instead of verbally quitting, he would have been choked out.

That I can agree to ;)

[Lucas]

"On the contrary, the so called "sport" MA (ie. MT, Judo, Wrestling, Boxing, BJJ) still maintain the concept of "training to fight." And not only maintained, but improved upon through various means to their specific venue...thus improving the development of their skillset. Why, because they are there to do just that. That is why those systems achieve greater results. "

-Exactly right.

I think that the idea that ancient kung fu masters were such deadlier and sophisticated fist fighters than their counterparts today is one of the biggest fallacies of martial arts culture. The truth of the matter is that people in Ming dynasty China or feudal Japan didn't depend on hand to hand combat for survival anymore than people do today. Even if guns weren't invented yet, villains and criminals still had blades, bows, clubs, horses, etc. The poor Chinese village peasant wasn't oppressed by white-eyebrowed kung fu villains who strolled into town killing all the local kung fu masters with shadowless sidekicks and dim mak punches. The poor peasant was oppressed by large gangs of marauders who rode lightning fast into the village on horseback, hacking, slashing, bashing, and shooting arrows. Now if you think any form of h2h skill in and of itself, (whether it be wing chun, muay thai or anything else) would've been much use in situations like that... then you really need more common sense.

So I seriously doubt that the baddest mofos around back then were sifus teaching animal forms to local tea merchants and noodle makers behind closed doors in town training halls. Nope, the baddest mofos were probably Royal bodyguards, elite shock troop units, high end private security groups, etc. While people like them definitely had some degree of training in unarmed combat, do you really think they would've spent a great amount of time perfecting h2h as opposed to various weapons skills, small unit military tactics, etc?

I really don't think the science of unarmed fighting became truly refined UNTIL it became a sport. Because sport has and always will be the only arena where its practical to spend a lot of effort training and perfecting those kinds of skills. For example, Muay Thai was developed into a streamlined and functional brawling style by generations of Thai fighters competing in the ring, not by Thai soldiers kicking people in the battlefield.

For this reason, I think martial arts such as Muay Thai, submission wrestling, etc that were refined through generations of competition between practitioners will always be much more functional than styles such as kung fu, which are supposedly meant for no-rules combat rather than sport, but nevertheless stem mostly from a tradition of practicing secretly behind closed doors and theorizing in a static environment without enough actual testing. Thats not to say that training in sport arts in and of itself is the end all be all. Obviously there are real world circumstances that sport training do not address. If you want your skills to translate well to real world scenarios, you should still do some degree of street oriented training (such as you might find in methods like JKD and Krav Maga). But still, you need to develop the basic skills and physical attributes essential to a functional foundation through the so-called 'sport' styles before you depend solely on 'dirty fighting' and theoretical street self defense.

This post has some good points to it.

The only aspect that seems forgotten however is the fact that many styles of chinese martial arts went through many, many years of competative training. As well as actual fighting. This is actually pretty well documented. This ranges from actual battle field combat with weapons, to lei tai style matches.

In regards to Chinese historical relevance to the martial arts themselves, there have been numerous contributing factors to the non implimentation of competative fighting. However even today, sanshou/sanda has a strong tradition that produces excellent fighters, arguably on par with muay thai fighters.

[SifuAbel]

Oh lord........... not his tired old hag of a subject AGAIN............ :rolleyes:

here, beat this one.......
http://www.worldbank.org/html/extdr/kosovo/photos/deadhorse.jpg

[Rojcewicz]

Im not sure why the TCMA vs MMA is such a big topic, all thats truly different about the styles is the method of training, the product can often be the same.

I didnt start this to make a war, just to acknowledge an observation.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Really, there is no TCMA in MMA. There are the same kicks, throws, locks, postures, and problem-solving, but there are no forms, traditions, meditations, philosophies of TCMA in MMA. You can't put a tradition or a nationality on a straight-punch, a rounhouse/roundkick, a hook, a spinning back heel kick.....striking is just striking. A Chinese CMA practitioner can't do anything I can't do, unless of course we're bargain shopping in Shanghai, b/c I'm going to pay the foriegner price. Other than that, we're equal, and we can do the same things. His TCMA roundhouse is the same as mine, is the same as a karate-man, is the same as Tim Sylvia, is the same as Chuck Norris (that's right, I said it.....the same as Chuck's).

MMA is a take-anything-that-works philosophy. Most of us belong to TCMA schools where we apply the same philosophy, while working within a "closed-circuit" philosophy about fighting, but we put an umbrella of ownership over hte material, set it in a specific context the material itself doesn't require in order to function (yes, the "breathe wrong and step wrong and you'll do irreparable damage to your internal organs and die five years earlier than usual" kind of ideology). They're about the "open circuit" fighting, where its about function.

For those of us who see the empty, embroidered facades of TCMA for what they are--facades--the fighting is hte fighting. That's not to say that the traditions are meaningless--they give a sense of community and identity to a group of practitioners and keep them involved in the martial community.....but they have nothing to do with fighting.

A kick is a kick is a kick, just as a punch is a punch is a punch. Traditions don't work and win fights. Kicks and punches win fights.

[Rojcewicz]

Really, there is no TCMA in MMA. There are the same kicks, throws, locks, postures, and problem-solving, but there are no forms, traditions, meditations, philosophies of TCMA in MMA. You can't put a tradition or a nationality on a straight-punch, a rounhouse/roundkick, a hook, a spinning back heel kick.....striking is just striking. A Chinese CMA practitioner can't do anything I can't do, unless of course we're bargain shopping in Shanghai, b/c I'm going to pay the foriegner price. Other than that, we're equal, and we can do the same things. His TCMA roundhouse is the same as mine, is the same as a karate-man, is the same as Tim Sylvia, is the same as Chuck Norris (that's right, I said it.....the same as Chuck's).

MMA is a take-anything-that-works philosophy. Most of us belong to TCMA schools where we apply the same philosophy, while working within a "closed-circuit" philosophy about fighting, but we put an umbrella of ownership over hte material, set it in a specific context the material itself doesn't require in order to function (yes, the "breathe wrong and step wrong and you'll do irreparable damage to your internal organs and die five years earlier than usual" kind of ideology). They're about the "open circuit" fighting, where its about function.

For those of us who see the empty, embroidered facades of TCMA for what they are--facades--the fighting is hte fighting. That's not to say that the traditions are meaningless--they give a sense of community and identity to a group of practitioners and keep them involved in the martial community.....but they have nothing to do with fighting.

A kick is a kick is a kick, just as a punch is a punch is a punch. Traditions don't work and win fights. Kicks and punches win fights.

yes, but those traditions are also in place to maintain a standard of training from which those punchs and kicks will become effective. I feel that the stances I train in class are directly responsible for the speed and strength of my kicks, just as I feel the forms have allowed by body to learn techniques quickly and more effectively as the mechanics and motions are within those forms and sparring with my friends and kung fu brothers has allowed me to express and more effectively administer those techniques in the context of a fight.

[Shaolin Wookie]

yes, but those traditions are also in place to maintain a standard of training from which those punchs and kicks will become effective. I feel that the stances I train in class are directly responsible for the speed and strength of my kicks, just as I feel the forms have allowed by body to learn techniques quickly and more effectively as the mechanics and motions are within those forms and sparring with my friends and kung fu brothers has allowed me to express and more effectively administer those techniques in the context of a fight.

No, they're put in place to cite ownership and precedence. Traditions have no value in an actual fight, and so they don't have precedence in MMA. It's like writing a paper: TCMA has us all in MLA format, citing every source so it can be corroborated and intellectual property can be established and credited. This is my mantis capping fist from White Ape Steals the Peach taught by the Grand Puba of yadayadayada........ MMA says forget that, takes what it wants, plagiarizes, and quickly snuffs the conscious faculty of the person that is trying to assert its intellectual property.

I like traditions. But they're just facades. They have no place in a fight. And stances are important....it's just that the title is misinterpreted. You transition through a stance--it's usually the marking point where something important happens to build power and speed and strength, or the point where you know you can retreat to or out of if you need to adapt on the fly.

I laugh when I see people standing in outlandish stances they've been taught, and doing so out of context (yes, by traditional teacherS). I think they've sorely missed the point. The point isn't to look like a monkey or a mantis when you're fighting. It's to fight, using a strategy and points of reference (that's where I think tradition is valuable--but that's the in-between, transitory nature of tradition). And yet, my strikes are the same as anyone elses. My mantis doesn't make me look like a mantis. It's fighting based more on specific targeting and angles of attack. The stances don't do **** if I just stand in them, nor the angles of my "mantis fingers" etc....LOL....

[Rojcewicz]

No, they're put in place to cite ownership and precedence. Traditions have no value in an actual fight, and so they don't have precedence in MMA. It's like writing a paper: TCMA has us all in MLA format, citing every source so it can be corroborated and intellectual property can be established and credited. This is my mantis capping fist from White Ape Steals the Peach taught by the Grand Puba of yadayadayada........ MMA says forget that, takes what it wants, plagiarizes, and quickly snuffs the conscious faculty of the person that is trying to assert its intellectual property.

I like traditions. But they're just facades. They have no place in a fight. And stances are important....it's just that the title is misinterpreted. You transition through a stance--it's usually the marking point where something important happens to build power and speed and strength, or the point where you know you can retreat to or out of if you need to adapt on the fly.

I laugh when I see people standing in outlandish stances they've been taught, and doing so out of context (yes, by traditional teacherS). I think they've sorely missed the point. The point isn't to look like a monkey or a mantis when you're fighting. It's to fight, using a strategy and points of reference (that's where I think tradition is valuable--but that's the in-between, transitory nature of tradition). And yet, my strikes are the same as anyone elses. My mantis doesn't make me look like a mantis. It's fighting based more on specific targeting and angles of attack. The stances don't do **** if I just stand in them, nor the angles of my "mantis fingers" etc....LOL....

i agree and I see where your coming from, but could you explain what you mean by stances as a "point of reference"?

[zapruder_bjj]

Outside some of the "newest inventions" in MMA

What are these inventions?


all found in TMA, so its not the TMA techniques that fail, its how they are applied by certain fighters, ie: training method like MK said.

I disagree I say it is the set of techniques that you bring to the table, if you only have striking techniques fighting a grappler will be all but impossible...or if you are boxing and all you have is a jab...or if you are a grappler and never seen a strike...

[zapruder_bjj]

Oh lord........... not his tired old hag of a subject AGAIN............ :rolleyes:

here, beat this one.......
http://www.worldbank.org/html/extdr/kosovo/photos/deadhorse.jpg

Wouldnt you just be the best person to bring up in this thread, as you got your ass kicked by a **** poor striker and a guy that is barley a blue belt.

And as far as your stupid sig there, we are still waiting for you to come down...and dont worry I will wait for you to get whooped by Anthony again, and even wait for your old ass to heal, so you cant come up with lame "OOOO my ear got hurt" or "my knee!! it was my knees fault!!" or "the sun got into my eyes" ...

[SifuAbel]

Left field, anyone? :rolleyes:

Taylor/Mike, arguing with the collective "you" is quite useless. Its already been noted that your gym doesn't support you. They don't sanction you to make threats of appearance to their gym. Shut up now. They don't condone you using their name/location/reputation as your personal barking stool.

Either way, when MEN fight, turds like you should remain quiet. ;)

[unkokusai]

Either way, when MEN fight

They give up in under two minutes to the deadly, deadly ear pull?

[Shaolin Wookie]

i agree and I see where your coming from, but could you explain what you mean by stances as a "point of reference"?

Well, probably not very well. Here's how it goes:

When someone learns a form for the fist time, he puts his body in positions that he's not accustomed to standing in. Ma Bu, jade-ring, etc. Every animal style has certain stances and postures that are unique to it, in some regard. Crane--firing off six kicks on one leg with rapidity isn't easy, nor is transitioning from a series of kicks to a reverse thrust in the opposite direction easy. But Crane is going to build up my balance, my flexibility, my kicks, and my ability to open up and close distances. I'd be an ass if I thought the purpose was to stand on one leg and wait for the opponent, karate-kid style. And I'd be stupid if I thought the solution to confrontation was a series of high kicks....

I think everyone would somewhat agree that the best ready stance is a basic sparring stance, feet at 45 degrees, little more than shoulder-width, knees bent....or maybe some variation of a high jade-ring (my preference). It gives you basic mobility, if needs be to lunge forward or to transition through a cat or mantis stance if dodging back to create distance. I don't know why people want to strike the classic sparring stance in a "cat stance" at the beginning of a sparring session. Why would you want to put all your weight behind you? You've got nowhere to go, and the stance does nothing in and of itself....it gives you a root if you pull back, and creates distance to spring back forward or laterally, but it does nothing in and of itself. Besides, the best defense is a good offense, and you need to be able to press the advantage; you can't do so if you're holding back. So, you move through it when you need to, and if you pull back into that cat stance, you know where to put your balance for the next motion, and you know that you know why that balance is being put there. But to move "into" a stance, rather than "through" is kind of retarded, IMO.

People just seem to want to strike a pose and vogue.

You have to sacrifice aesthetics for function. Which is more important, in the end? The beauty of fighting is in its function, not in the poses and the imitation of animals. If part of CMA is about personal growth and the eradication of pride and self-valuation, we have to get past our self-conscious idealization of postured beauty and the will to conform for the sake of something esoteric.....I suppose.

[MasterKiller]

What are these inventions?



I disagree I say it is the set of techniques that you bring to the table, if you only have striking techniques fighting a grappler will be all but impossible...or if you are boxing and all you have is a jab...or if you are a grappler and never seen a strike...

What if you have awesome grappling and striking techniques, but you only practiced them on a BOB dummy for 30 second rounds once a week?

What would happen if that guy fought a boxer who only jabbed, but trained it on the heavy bag 5 times a week, sparred with partners consistently only using a jab, and had a professional conditioning routine?

[Rojcewicz]

Well, probably not very well. Here's how it goes:

When someone learns a form for the fist time, he puts his body in positions that he's not accustomed to standing in. Ma Bu, jade-ring, etc. Every animal style has certain stances and postures that are unique to it, in some regard. Crane--firing off six kicks on one leg with rapidity isn't easy, nor is transitioning from a series of kicks to a reverse thrust in the opposite direction easy. But Crane is going to build up my balance, my flexibility, my kicks, and my ability to open up and close distances. I'd be an ass if I thought the purpose was to stand on one leg and wait for the opponent, karate-kid style. And I'd be stupid if I thought the solution to confrontation was a series of high kicks....

I think everyone would somewhat agree that the best ready stance is a basic sparring stance, feet at 45 degrees, little more than shoulder-width, knees bent....or maybe some variation of a high jade-ring (my preference). It gives you basic mobility, if needs be to lunge forward or to transition through a cat or mantis stance if dodging back to create distance. I don't know why people want to strike the classic sparring stance in a "cat stance" at the beginning of a sparring session. Why would you want to put all your weight behind you? You've got nowhere to go, and the stance does nothing in and of itself....it gives you a root if you pull back, and creates distance to spring back forward or laterally, but it does nothing in and of itself. Besides, the best defense is a good offense, and you need to be able to press the advantage; you can't do so if you're holding back. So, you move through it when you need to, and if you pull back into that cat stance, you know where to put your balance for the next motion, and you know that you know why that balance is being put there. But to move "into" a stance, rather than "through" is kind of retarded, IMO.

People just seem to want to strike a pose and vogue.

You have to sacrifice aesthetics for function. Which is more important, in the end? The beauty of fighting is in its function, not in the poses and the imitation of animals. If part of CMA is about personal growth and the eradication of pride and self-valuation, we have to get past our self-conscious idealization of postured beauty and the will to conform for the sake of something esoteric.....I suppose.

ah ok, yeah I understand exactly what you mean and agree. I would think the pose striking is so common in kung fu cinema as a form of posturing; that the characters are simply showing off. Many times, when working more practical application in class, we will began with are arms at our sides as the chance of being attacked while your just standing their is probably much greater that someone going into a fighting stance in front of you and allowing you to do the same.

[1bad65]

So SifuExcuses, did you ask Gene if me and Taylor have different IPs?

You know you wont, because just like when you fought Anthony, you will proven to again be full of crap.

Oh yeah, where do YOU train?

[omarthefish]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDACoB5POwg

Their boy Zac is 3-0 in MMA now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwuQBCxGAgs

I spent Saturday afternoon training at this place. It's one of the coolest kwoons I've ever been in. Really good people. Good training. Lot's of fun and they are consistently winning in local cage matches.

Other links to stuff happening at the school:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=zhong+luo+mma&search_type=


School homepage: http://undergroundkungfu.com/school.php

[zapruder_bjj]

Left field, anyone? :rolleyes:

Taylor/Mike, arguing with the collective "you" is quite useless. Its already been noted that your gym doesn't support you. They don't sanction you to make threats of appearance to their gym. Shut up now. They don't condone you using their name/location/reputation as your personal barking stool.

Either way, when MEN fight, turds like you should remain quiet. ;)

And where is your gym again? Where is it that you supposedly train? Oh wait as I said in the other thread after I invited you to come down and get your ass kicked, you would just puff and posture and make a WHOLE lot of noise. You are just a sh*t talking fur burger.

Now bark for me

[Rojcewicz]

seems like we got way off subject somewhere.

[1bad65]

It all started on Post# 60.

Wonder who that was? :rolleyes:

[Lama Pai Sifu]

[QUOTE=Shaolin Wookie;853512]Really, there is no TCMA in MMA. There are the same kicks, throws, locks, postures, and problem-solving, but there are no forms, traditions, meditations, philosophies of TCMA in MMA. You can't put a tradition or a nationality on a straight-punch, a rounhouse/roundkick, a hook, a spinning back heel kick.....striking is just striking. A Chinese CMA practitioner can't do anything I can't do, unless of course we're bargain shopping in Shanghai, b/c I'm going to pay the foriegner price. Other than that, we're equal, and we can do the same things. His TCMA roundhouse is the same as mine, is the same as a karate-man, is the same as Tim Sylvia, is the same as Chuck Norris (that's right, I said it.....the same as Chuck's).

Uh, unless of course you do Shaolin-DO. The question should be WHY WOULD ANY TCMA PRATICTIONER WANT TO DO WHAT YOU DO? HA HA HA

Take that - Shaolin Wookie/John Takeshi and your host of other names!!

[greendragon]

And where is your gym again? Where is it that you supposedly train? Oh wait as I said in the other thread after I invited you to come down and get your ass kicked, you would just puff and posture and make a WHOLE lot of noise. You are just a sh*t talking fur burger.

Now bark for me

it is this kind of mentality that is a disgrace to martial arts.

[SifuAbel]

Oh lord........... not his tired old hag of a subject AGAIN............ :rolleyes:

here, beat this one.......
http://www.worldbank.org/html/extdr/kosovo/photos/deadhorse.jpg


It all started on Post# 60.

Wonder who that was? :rolleyes:


seems like we got way off subject somewhere.

I really don't see what I posted as being off topic. But again, its a creepy obsession.

I'm coming taylor, some time in the future..............

...............and its getting closer.

[SifuAbel]

And where is your gym again? Where is it that you supposedly train? Oh wait as
I said in the other thread after I invited you to come down and get your ass kicked, you would just puff and posture and make a WHOLE lot of noise. You are just a sh*t talking fur burger.

Now bark for me

And this has all of WHAT to do with your impotence? :rolleyes:

You coming to get me? I'll give you a time, a day, a location. Say the word. I would LOVE to see you, sugar tits.

And BTW, don't confuse your personas. "1sad" invited me to come , not "you".

"You" were coming to Florida to meet me. "You" don't have a problem traveling unlike "1nut". "You" can't even get your own "stories" straight.

LMAO!!!!

[unkokusai]

How come when YOU are promising to go its just:



I'm coming some time in the future..............

...............and its getting closer.



But when its the other way around it becomes:




You coming to get me? I'll give you a time, a day, a location. Say the word. I would LOVE to see you


Why is it so much more specific in the latter case?

[sanjuro_ronin]

What are these inventions?



I disagree I say it is the set of techniques that you bring to the table, if you only have striking techniques fighting a grappler will be all but impossible...or if you are boxing and all you have is a jab...or if you are a grappler and never seen a strike...

I don't recall their names now, I don't follow MMA THAT closely, but Knifefighter mentioned a few newer variations on chokes and such in another thread, new being a relative term of course.
Then there are "new principles", like Drysdale's "submission from every position".
Note the quotation marks.

The set of techniquues you bring to the table only matter if you can apply them ie: its the training.

[AdrianUK]

Ok, I skimmed this a little after the *****ing started, BUT

Can I ask, who started Kung Fu because they thought it was the most effective method of fighting ? And of those, who thought that based on empirical evidence ? Hands up I liked the whole mystique, eastern culture thing, fighting prowess was a secondary consideration.

Anyone care to comment ? Flame ? etc

[sanjuro_ronin]

Ok, I skimmed this a little after the *****ing started, BUT

Can I ask, who started Kung Fu because they thought it was the most effective method of fighting ? And of those, who thought that based on empirical evidence ? Hands up I liked the whole mystique, eastern culture thing, fighting prowess was a secondary consideration.

Anyone care to comment ? Flame ? etc

My first system was Hung Kuen, because of too many kung fu movies :D

[SifuAbel]

And this has all of WHAT to do with your impotence? :rolleyes:

You coming to get me? I'll give you a time, a day, a location. Say the word. I would LOVE to see you, sugar tits.

And BTW, don't confuse your personas. "1sad" invited me to come , not "you".

"You" were coming to Florida to meet me. "You" don't have a problem traveling unlike "1nut". "You" can't even get your own "stories" straight.

LMAO!!!!

Ahem........................... :rolleyes:

[1bad65]

I thought you were planning on suing Bullshido for harassment? Yet here you are stirring the pot again.

So, do you have a date and time you are coming to fight me?

So, do you have a date and time you are coming to fight Taylor?

So, do you have a date and time you are coming to fight Anthony?

Since you've been e-challenging everyone to come to your gym for 5 years, where is your gym, tough guy?

Haven't you learned anything? Considering you almost lost your ear to the dreaded Ear Grind, I thought you might be a little more careful.

Have you asked Gene if me and Taylor have the same IP yet? Considering that is a bannable offense, I'm sure you asked him. ;)

[unkokusai]

I thought you were planning on suing Bullshido for harassment?


LOL! Was he really? Too funny.

[1bad65]

Yeah he is supposed to. Just another in a long line of EMPTY threats though.


I guess he forgot the old adage....

If the ear is not split, you must acquit!

[David Jamieson]

man, you guys just can't seem to get past this stuff.

holy crap.

[SifuAbel]

I thought you were planning on suing Bullshido for harassment? Yet here you are stirring the pot again.

So, do you have a date and time you are coming to fight me?

So, do you have a date and time you are coming to fight Taylor?

So, do you have a date and time you are coming to fight Anthony?

Since you've been e-challenging everyone to come to your gym for 5 years, where is your gym, tough guy?

Haven't you learned anything? Considering you almost lost your ear to the dreaded Ear Grind, I thought you might be a little more careful.

Have you asked Gene if me and Taylor have the same IP yet? Considering that is a bannable offense, I'm sure you asked him. ;)

You are confusing your personas again. Like you couldn't post from work and home. :rolleyes:

You doth protest too much. Lets see a picture with you and taylor.

Anthony will be in Oct when I return to Florida.

Yours will be when I get a better excuse to spend 2k on flying and staying out in Austin than just beating your carcass into dust. there is a rather large Movie industry there. So it may be sooner than later.

Taylor has none of your pussified hangups, or maybe does. He can travel. Or so was his deal when "meeting" me in Florida. Like he couldn't show up to the gym anthony and I were going at.

I LAUGH at you. You're the quintessential pipsqueak. Unbalanced and emboldened by someone else's work.

My gym, which one?
Nor cal.
Sung's Kung Fu in San Mateo california? I waited in that one for 4 years.
So cal.
Shamel park in Riverside. I waited there for 2.

[1bad65]

What about Boyd and Osiris? They want to fight well before October, but they need the name of the gym where you told them the fight is supposed to happen.

Shamel park is not a gym.

[1bad65]

Put your money where your mouth is.

$1000 says I'm not Taylor. And if you win, I'll throw in 3 round trip, 1st Class tickets to Austin. One for you and 2 for your corner.

Care to put up?

[1bad65]

Anthony will be in Oct when I return to Florida.

Are you sure you want to do that?

I remember how the last one turned out for you:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=XrsxIPJBqfE

You better learn your lesson quick, or you're going to run out of ears! :D

[SifuAbel]

Shamel park is not a gym.

It's where I teach/taught for some time. Its not my problem that a yellow streak a mile long runs down and out of their spines.

[SifuAbel]

Put your money where your mouth is.

$1000 says I'm not Taylor. And if you win, I'll throw in 3 round trip, 1st Class tickets to Austin. One for you and 2 for your corner.

Care to put up?

A picture would do. :rolleyes:

[1bad65]

A picture would do. :rolleyes:

Just like Anthony said, this time ya gotta put up the money.

You made the accusation, now put your money where your mouth is.

[1bad65]

It's where I teach/taught for some time. Its not my problem that a yellow streak a mile long runs down and out of their spines.

You told Boyd and Osiris to fight you at your GYM. They accepted.

Where is that GYM?

[SifuAbel]

Just like Anthony said, this time ya gotta put up the money.

You made the accusation, now put your money where your mouth is.

Ok Ill bet you 25. 000 that you are the same person.

[SifuAbel]

You told Boyd and Osiris to fight you at your GYM. They accepted.

Where is that GYM?


whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa


yellow..................



oops he logged off. bet you all "zaptruder" will appear now.

[1bad65]

Nope, its for $1000.

What's the matter? You scared? If you are so certain, you should want the bet to go even higher. Including the tickets I offered, you already stand to win at least $2500.

[1bad65]

So they are scared of you because you won't tell them where the gym is you challenged them to come to???? :rolleyes:

How is your lawsuit going? :D

[SifuAbel]

No they/you are cowards for not meeting me where I want. Instead they want the safety of a gym where they won't be seriously hurt.

[SifuAbel]

Nope, its for $1000.

What's the matter? You scared? If you are so certain, you should want the bet to go even higher. Including the tickets I offered, you already stand to win at least $2500.

Ok its a bet, send me your money.

[1bad65]

No they/you are cowards for not meeting me where I want. Instead they want the safety of a gym where they won't be seriously hurt.

Ha Ha Ha!!! Had there been no ref last time your ear would really be messed up!!!

But you used the word GYM. So put up. Or do you just e-challenge knowing you won't have to put up? :D


Ok its a bet, send me your money.

So, are you ducking the bet? ;)

If we do it, the money will be put in escrow by a lawyer. Put up or shut up.

Or you could just ask Gene for free and look like more of an idiot than you do now.

[zapruder_bjj]

I'm coming taylor, some time in the future..............

...............and its getting closer.

Sh*t or get off the pot.

[SifuAbel]

Sh*t or get off the pot.

Mixing personas again? LMAO!!!

[SifuAbel]

Ha Ha Ha!!! Had there been no ref last time your ear would really be messed up!!!

B

Had there been no ref the back of his head would be concave. :rolleyes:
Oddly, the ref didn't make him start on his knees. But oh well.

[1bad65]

Up for that bet then?

So, it's now October. :rolleyes: I guess since Anthony had the balls to tell you where his gym is, you know where to go to find him. Are you really going to walk into ATT and drop a challenge? :D

[Anthony_ATT]

Had there been no ref the back of his head would be concave. :rolleyes:
Oddly, the ref didn't make him start on his knees. But oh well.

Oh please idiot. My head would be concave, you punch so hard! Just like the 10 punches you threw earlier right?

Watch what you say there Champ, or I'll "Ear Grind" you again. hahahaha

http://youtube.com/watch?v=XrsxIPJBqfE

Man this is sad. Nothing worse than watching a bully who got his ass beat try to hold on to being a tough guy. Almost as bad as training 25 years and getting your ass beat by a white belt.

:D:D:D:D:D:D

[unkokusai]

Nothing more amusing than watching a bully who got his ass beat try to hold on to being a tough guy. Almost as entertaining as training 25 years and getting your ass beat by a white belt.

:D:D:D:D:D:D



Fixed that for ya.

[unkokusai]

No they/you are cowards for not meeting me where I want.


Isn't that kind of different than "I've been here waiting for you for X years!"? Where exactly have you been waiting? In the parking lot outside a Masonic lodge or something?


Everytime it seems you can't make more of a fool of yourself you take your game up to the next level.

[SifuAbel]

You really ought to keep you opinions straight. Different forums aren't different worlds.


Pandinha

Pandinha's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: South Florida
Posts: 8,134

Rudy is a blowhard, but don't think for one second any of those punches didn't hurt. One hurt so bad, I missed my shot and almost fell out of the ring.

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1773279&postcount=63

Its very interesting you chose to clip the video to that point. I guess me beating you about is too embarrassing.

[zapruder_bjj]

You really ought to keep you opinions straight. Different forums aren't different worlds.



http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1773279&postcount=63

Its very interesting you chose to clip the video to that point. I guess me beating you about is too embarrassing.

So you beat his ass, but still tapped? And you tapped not to submission that would cause great injury, not to a sub that would put you to sleep..you tapped because you got a little bobo on your wittle ear, you are a punk and a blowhard...so bark some more for me funny boy.

[1bad65]

Why is it that you need to know precisely when and where others are coming to you, but you are always 'coming sometime in the future'?

Where is the gym at that you told me, Taylor, Anthony, Boyd, and Osiris to come to?

[sanjuro_ronin]

I really worry about all you guys.
Much like one worries when they see a stray dog looking for food.

[David Jamieson]

wow. this is not going away.

lol

rudy was beating on anthony who took a lot, props to both, and then the ref broke it up and made rudy start from his knees after what appeared to be stoppage on account of something anthony was doing, unless that was round two start, I don't know.

why ask a kungfu guy to start from his knees unless you want to create a disadvantage? Even in JJ, BJJ, GJJ, starting on your knees is for training scenarios and not matches as far as I know. Rudy wasn't on his home turf. He manned up and agreed to start on his knees, was taken out of his element and put into another element.

so, it was imminent and to an outsider like myself, the last half was a set up on rudy.

despite his belligerence towards you guys, which, frankly is understandable seeing as you bait him up all the time, I don't know why you would think for one second that rudy should or is going to agree to your black and white reckoning of things.

It was a scrap, but, I think a hiatus, some training and a rematch would have more weight than that original tape which looked as stated above to me the outsider who doesn't give a crap about either fighter.

as for the omar osiris thing. I really disagree that Osiris did anything more than rush JFS at which point JFS put a quasi pseudo guillotine on him, controlled him and then asked if he was done with it, when Osiris agreed, he let him up and that was that. Omar stood around watching. the chick in the shorts was acting all weird and then they all jumped in their car and took off in another direction while shouting obscenities at JFS and Omar who returned the verbal assaults.

that thing was so ridiculous, I wouldn't ever use that as any sort of meauser of who beat who.

Once again, I'm an outside guy looking in and if anyone wants to see either of those things, these guys will make them available to you. lol

just saying. Now, can we end this f-ing pee match across these boards?

kthxbye

[1bad65]

David, you are as ignorant about fighting as on current events! :eek:

Fact: Rudy chose the ref. Any issues with the ref are his problem.

Fact: Rudy used his knee and his clothes as back-up excuses.

Fact: Osiris was not 'controlled'. If you are mounted and getting punched in the face, you are not controlling your opponent.

Fact: JFS quit. In a no-rules streetfight no less.

[Anthony_ATT]

You really ought to keep you opinions straight. Different forums aren't different worlds.



http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1773279&postcount=63

Its very interesting you chose to clip the video to that point. I guess me beating you about is too embarrassing.

I gave you your props homie, I fell out the ring, but you didn't knock me out, nor did you beat me. You coudn't finish me standing up. So much for your 25 years of Kung Fu.

I beat you. I made you tap out twice. Nothing is going to change that.

My Ear Grind is supreme.

[1bad65]

My Ear Grind is supreme.

It better be.

Because he is coming for you in October! :D

[Anthony_ATT]

It better be.

Because he is coming for you in October! :D

Rudilesssimo better have my terms met.

I feel it's gonna be an easy grand.

[1bad65]

Funny you bring that up. ;)

You see if SifuExcuses puts his money where his mouth is on his assertion I am Taylor/Zapruder, and is correct, he will win $1000 from me!

We all know he is full of hot air though.

But if he does fight you again, for the love of God, please grind his ear completely off this time! :D

[David Jamieson]

David, you are as ignorant about fighting as on current events! :eek:

Fact: Rudy chose the ref. Any issues with the ref are his problem.

Fact: Rudy used his knee and his clothes as back-up excuses.

Fact: Osiris was not 'controlled'. If you are mounted and getting punched in the face, you are not controlling your opponent.

Fact: JFS quit. In a no-rules streetfight no less.

man, youb are too quick to hurl the abuse. Anyway, I am calling it like I saw it. What I said is what I saw, how I saw it. You prefer to see it your way and go on to no end about it as if trying to convince yiourself that it is a truth.

You certainly haven't convinced rudy and you're not convincing me. That is exactly How I saw those things. I didn't see Osiris punching JFS in the face, I saw Him run, tackle and then get tangled up and then holding, then they got up, everyone got in the little runabout, sweared at each other like teenagers and that was that. It was silly on all counts.

as for the ref thing, that's fine, but why the start on the knees thing? what was that about? How come the round was stopped? that is what I saw.

Is their other angles available.

Try to ease up on the insults and anger there guy. It'll only get you banned from here in the long run, At least for a cooling off period. :)

[1bad65]

I didn't see Osiris punching JFS in the face,

You better watch the video again then.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m3HcgR2_vA

From 1:03-1:09 you can see the punches. By my count it was around 7 of them.


as for the ref thing, that's fine, but why the start on the knees thing? what was that about?

SifuExcuses used the knee as another in a long line of excuses.

Do you need the link?

[BM2]

I noticed the ATT. Is that American Top Team? They have some real bad azzes there. Pablo Popovitch was there, Marcelo Gracia does his MMA there. Thats the top two submission wrestlers 170lbs in the world. Jeff Monson , several UFC fighters etc...

[Anthony_ATT]

I noticed the ATT. Is that American Top Team? They have some real bad azzes there. Pablo Popovitch was there, Marcelo Gracia does his MMA there. Thats the top two submission wrestlers 170lbs in the world. Jeff Monson , several UFC fighters etc...

Yes it's American Top Team. Pablo and Marcelo are grappling gods, I'm a brand new blue belt, I have a long way, if ever to get to that level.

ATT is considered one of the top 3 MMA Camp in the USA. A very well deserved description.

[Fox]

Yes it's American Top Team. Pablo and Marcelo are grappling gods, I'm a brand new blue belt, I have a long way, if ever to get to that level.

ATT is considered one of the top 3 MMA Camp in the USA. A very well deserved description.

Bad example IMO. Go to the camp and use the cert to say you are qualified to teach grappling, even if you are a TKD instrucutor.

[Anthony_ATT]

Bad example IMO. Go to the camp and use the cert to say you are qualified to teach grappling, even if you are a TKD instrucutor.

You are an idiot who as usual has the wrong information. ATT offers a Level 1 Certification to teach Basic MMA under ATT's purview.

Your McDojo ass couldn't hold a candle to Pablo Povovitch or Marcelo Garcia or any ATT instructor for that matter.

[Fox]

Ok, I skimmed this a little after the *****ing started, BUT

Can I ask, who started Kung Fu because they thought it was the most effective method of fighting ? And of those, who thought that based on empirical evidence ? Hands up I liked the whole mystique, eastern culture thing, fighting prowess was a secondary consideration.

Anyone care to comment ? Flame ? etc


I started KFSS, I loved it. If I could find an instructor close to me, I would still train in in.

[sanjuro_ronin]

You better watch the video again then.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m3HcgR2_vA

From 1:03-1:09 you can see the punches. By my count it was around 7 of them.



SifuExcuses used the knee as another in a long line of excuses.

Do you need the link?

5 punches.

[1bad65]

Well that's 5 more punches than David saw. He said zero. So at least we agree he is wrong.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I don't know what Dave was looking at, maybe it was the quality of the punches :D

[1bad65]

Your McDojo ass couldn't hold a candle to Pablo Povovitch or Marcelo Garcia or any ATT instructor for that matter.

But Fox teaches 3 year olds! :D

[1bad65]

I don't know what Dave was looking at, maybe it was the quality of the punches :D

Dave lives in his own little world.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Dave lives in his own little world.

If we take you BS nutriding and your constant and rather disturbing stalking of Rudy, you seem to live in your own little world too.

You sure you aren't a TCMA ??:p

[David Jamieson]

Dave lives in his own little world.

we all live in our own little world. to a man.

[1bad65]

If we take you BS nutriding and your constant and rather disturbing stalking of Rudy, you seem to live in your own little world too.

Go re-read post #86 and see who fired this back up AGAIN.

SifuExcuses has an entire area on his forum devoted to me. Threats were made against me on SifuExcuses forum. Fox called my gym, twice. Fox threatened to show up at my home or job. SifuExcuses threatened to call APD and report me as a drug dealer.

Who is the stalker again?

[David Jamieson]

once again, I watched. I saw two punches of any merit with a "im gonna f-ing kill you" by osiris, so yeah, he got a punch in, but Springer, although he took one appeared to be the one in control of that.

anyway, here nor there.

like I said, I don't much have any concern other than the forum and threads being constantly polluted by your collective finger pointing, whining like 4 years olds about this over and over again.

frankly, the heap of you should be banned for 30 days in my opinion. You've been messing this forum with your crap for entirely too long.

[1bad65]

But you said NO PUNCHES before.

As for the fighting, it appears you need to go re-read Post #86 as well.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Go re-read post #86 and see who fired this back up AGAIN.

SifuExcuses has an entire area on his forum devoted to me. Threats were made against me on SifuExcuses forum. Fox called my gym, twice. Fox threatened to show up at my home or job. SifuExcuses threatened to call APD and report me as a drug dealer.

Who is the stalker again?

Ah dude, just drop it and let it die.

[BM2]

Yes it's American Top Team. Pablo and Marcelo are grappling gods, I'm a brand new blue belt, I have a long way, if ever to get to that level.

ATT is considered one of the top 3 MMA Camp in the USA. A very well deserved description.

Master Popovitch does two seminars a year here in KY and he is soft spoken and humble. He was also last year's instructor of the year by NAGA. I received my Blue under one of Master Popovitch's Black belts although the morning classes have been cancelled and I can no longer attend. Two of my friends are purple and one of them just got some mats and invited me to start working out with them. Weeks after one got his purple, he won NAGA in Ohio and was second in no gi. And if you met him you would think he is just a goof ball. He also holds the amutuer AFL 205 belt.
I also have the gi 6 DVD of Marcelo's instructional set #2. Oh man is that stuff wicked! I am so impressed how sick he really is.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I prefer Drysdale's methods, but Garcia is wicked.

[1bad65]

Ah dude, just drop it and let it die.

I was doing just fine posting on alot of other threads until SifuExcuses fired it up again. You wanna clean up, remember that I've always been taught to kill the roots first when cleaning out weeds from a garden.

I will say this, I won't be intimadated by SifuExcuses or Tom Fox or by any alias SifuExcuses trolls his own board as. I will reply to their threats. Although I think they are all chest thumping cowards who have no intention of following through with their threats, I do take them seriously. Silence is often mistaken for weakness. Bullies like SifuExcuses thrive on fear and weakness. So I have to let them see that not only do I not fear them, I actually look forward to the day SifuExcuses or Tom Fox actually follows through on their threats and does show up to fight me. I will say this, if they do show up they will NEVER e-challenge another person again. Mark my words on that.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I was doing just fine posting on alot of other threads until SifuExcuses fired it up again. You wanna clean up, remember that I've always been taught to kill the roots first when cleaning out weeds from a garden.

I will say this, I won't be intimadated by SifuExcuses or Tom Fox or by any alias SifuExcuses trolls his own board as. I will reply to their threats. Although I think they are all chest thumping cowards who have no intention of following through with their threats, I do take them seriously. Silence is often mistaken for weakness. Bullies like SifuExcuses thrive on fear and weakness. So I have to let them see that not only do I not fear them, I actually look forward to the day SifuExcuses or Tom Fox actually follows through on their threats and does show up to fight me. I will say this, if they do show up they will NEVER e-challenge another person again. Mark my words on that.


Here is an old Kali adage:
Walk softly and carry a big stick, and use it too ( works for porn also).
:D

[zapruder_bjj]

they will NEVER e-challenge another person again. Mark my words on that.

I think you underestimate their knuckle dragging stupidity...I mean he taps to his widdle ear getting a bobo and comes back to talk **** about what a badass he is

[Yao Sing]

All in favor of banning the crybabies so the rest of us don't have to read this crap over and over on half the threads say "Aye".

AYE!

If you like the drama and little schoolgirl taunts and teasing say "Nay".

[1bad65]

I mean he taps to his widdle ear getting a bobo and comes back to talk **** about what a badass he is

Don't be laughing about the Ear Grind. You know the reason so many grapplers have those jacked-up ears is from all that ear grinding!

I bet Anthony's training partners ears look horrible. :D

[Anthony_ATT]

once again, I watched. I saw two punches of any merit with a "im gonna f-ing kill you" by osiris, so yeah, he got a punch in, but Springer, although he took one appeared to be the one in control of that.


You've never been mounted before. The person on the bottom is NEVER in control.

[Anthony_ATT]

Don't be laughing about the Ear Grind. You know the reason so many grapplers have those jacked-up ears is from all that ear grinding!

I bet Anthony's training partners ears look horrible. :D

My partners actually know how to fight off their backs, so ear booboos aren't very prevalent. :)

[Anthony_ATT]

All in favor of banning the crybabies so the rest of us don't have to read this crap over and over on half the threads say "Aye".

AYE!

If you like the drama and little schoolgirl taunts and teasing say "Nay".

I'm all for the ban. As long as it's fair. That includes Rudy Abel and Tom Fox.

[sanjuro_ronin]

You've never been mounted before. The person on the bottom is NEVER in control.

Hey, I know this girl...:D

[Yao Sing]

I'm all for the ban. As long as it's fair. That includes Rudy Abel and Tom Fox.

I left names out. That's for the one doing the banning to decide. It's just getting old and it's hard to avoid since it pops up on any thread.

[Anthony_ATT]

Hey, I know this girl...:D

You and me both! :)

[sanjuro_ronin]

I'm all for the ban. As long as it's fair. That includes Rudy Abel and Tom Fox.

Considering that there are two boards that you guys can hash this out, why bring it here?
You know, one can always try and let ones accomplishments, merits and experience speak for themselves.

[Lucas]

Too bad duels to the death are illegal.....

[sanjuro_ronin]

Too bad duels to the death are illegal.....

Well, there is this tournament that happens only once a year, its by invitation only and it happens on a private island.
Full contact, no rules and death is quite possible and non-punishable.
You also get fed real well and get laid the night before !
:D

[unkokusai]

Well, there is this tournament that happens only once a year, its by invitation only and it happens on a private island.
Full contact, no rules and death is quite possible and non-punishable.
You also get fed real well and get laid the night before !
:D



And the mysterious host has one metal ear that no one talks about...

[1bad65]

And the mysterious host has one metal ear that no one talks about...

I hope you know I am crying right now! That was just too funny!

[1bad65]

You know, one can always try and let ones accomplishments, merits, experience and fight video speak for themselves.

Fixed that for ya.

Again, look at Post #86. All was fine and on topic until SifuExcuses decided to stir the pot, AGAIN.

[sanjuro_ronin]

As we all know by now, even video is subject to interpretation.

[Lucas]

Though the lotus may grow out of a dirty marsh, it is still a lotus.

If you drop a polished stone into a puddle of mud, though it is surrounded by filth, it is in fact, still a polished stone.

Though one may mix with crowds of an unsaivory character, one does not have to stoop to the level of ones company.

just because you are surrounded by piles of sh!t, doesnt mean you HAVE to step in them. they can be ignored, for if one willingly steps into a pile of sh!t, what does that say about him?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Though the lotus may grow out of a dirty marsh, it is still a lotus.

If you drop a polished stone into a puddle of mud, though it is surrounded by filth, it is in fact, still a polished stone.

Though one may mix with crowds of an unsaivory character, one does not have to stoop to the level of ones company.

just because you are surrounded by piles of sh!t, doesnt mean you HAVE to step in them. they can be ignored, for if one willingly steps into a pile of sh!t, what does that say about him?

To that I only add:

[Lucas]

To that I only add:

I knew I forgot something...

[1bad65]

As we all know by now, even video is subject to interpretation.

Get real.

Do you dispute any of these facts:

SifuExcuses got punched, elbowed, and kneed in the head and face.
SifuExcuses tapped out.
SifuExcuses has made multiple excuses for his loss including his clothes, the ref, and his knee.
JFS got mounted and punched in the head and face.
JFS told Osiris 'Get off me. We are in a parking lot'.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Get real.

Do you dispute any of these facts:

SifuExcuses got punched, elbowed, and kneed in the head and face.
SifuExcuses tapped out.
SifuExcuses has made multiple excuses for his loss including his clothes, the ref, and his knee.
JFS got mounted and punched in the head and face.
JFS told Osiris 'Get off me. We are in a parking lot'.

You fail to miss my point, MY interpretation is only valid to me and yours to yours.
People see what they CHOSE to see, period.

[Anthony_ATT]

You fail to miss my point, MY interpretation is only valid to me and yours to yours.
People see what they CHOSE to see, period.

God's honest truth. Even when what they see is wrong. Usually due to inexperience.

But I'm willing to help people. Have you seen my instructional video?

VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

[sanjuro_ronin]

God's honest truth. Even when what they see is wrong. Usually due to inexperience.

You gave people too much credit, sometime the brain doesn't process because it chooses not to, to protect the fragile "ID", or some crap like that.

[sanjuro_ronin]

ut I'm willing to help people. Have you seen my instructional video?


:cool:
Kids...

[1bad65]

People see what they CHOSE to see, period.

Can't argue with you there. Some people do choose ignorance.

But others, like me, know that it is what it is.

Bottom line is that SifuExcuses tapped out and JFS quit. PERIOD.

[Lucas]

Can't argue with you there. Some people do choose ignorance.

But others, like me, know that it is what it is.

Bottom line is that SifuExcuses tapped out and JFS quit. PERIOD.Now lets all shut up and stop talking about it, PERIOD!

fixed that for ya, :p


(this is my first 'fixed that for ya post', welcome me to the KFM family!)

[sanjuro_ronin]

fixed that for ya, :p


(this is my first 'fixed that for ya post', welcome me to the KFM family! and where is my free mullet wig ??!?)



Fixed that for you:D

[Lucas]

Fixed that for you:D

rofl, good one.

[Yao Sing]

Again, look at Post #86. All was fine and on topic until SifuExcuses decided to stir the pot, AGAIN.

And apparently you aren't mature enough to let him be a fool, you insist on following him to "I'm an idiot" world. You guys are as bad as my grandkids.

So how does it feel knowing you're so easily manipulated?

[Shaolin Wookie]

From the perspective of a disinterested third party, the video of you guys fighting was horrible. The big asian dude got pummelled badly to the floor; the big white dude got handled on the floor. In the end, the asian dude won, but he would have lost if the other dude hadn't backed down, or the fight hadn't been stood up--maybe.

Why is either side bragging?:confused: There was no monkey kung fu, and there was very little MMA...LOL.....

You guys did deal out some heavy shots, but it was worse than amateurish.

[Lucas]

lol

dude that was just funny

[Anthony_ATT]

From the perspective of a disinterested third party, the video of you guys fighting was horrible. The big asian dude got pummelled badly to the floor; the big white dude got handled on the floor. In the end, the asian dude won, but he would have lost if the other dude hadn't backed down, or the fight hadn't been stood up--maybe.

Why is either side bragging?:confused: There was no monkey kung fu, and there was very little MMA...LOL.....

You guys did deal out some heavy shots, but it was worse than amateurish.

Video of you fighting Full Contact MMA please.

[Shaolin Wookie]

You first.

[Yao Sing]

Dude, he already went first. Who do you think the big asian guy is (hint: you sai he got "pummelled badly")?

[Lucas]

Dude, he already went first. Who do you think the big asian guy is (hint: you sai he got "pummelled badly")?

I think his 'you first' statement was meant as a sly, subtle joke....

[Shaolin Wookie]

;)............

[Anthony_ATT]

;)............

I take it no video then?

How about any standup, kickboxing, sanshou, sanda, etc.

[Shaolin Wookie]

I take it no video then?

How about any standup, kickboxing, sanshou, sanda, etc.

I'm still waiting for something besides two internet fanboys humping in a ring leased out for a pity-fight.

[1bad65]

You should be a bit more critical of the performance of the guy who actually LOST the fight.

[1bad65]

You do know Anthony has fought pro MMA as well dont you?

[Anthony_ATT]

I'm still waiting for something besides two internet fanboys humping in a ring leased out for a pity-fight.

YAWN.

Another loud mouth kung fu guy.

Rudy Abel talked the same way...

Then he got the ear grind.

Watch yo ass son.

[Lucas]

lol. that was funny too.

IMO the end result is all that really matters. 2 guys stepped up to an agreed setting/rules and one guy won, the other guy lost.

[1bad65]

Watch yo ear son.

Fixed that for ya.

[Anthony_ATT]

lol. that was funny too.

IMO the end result is all that really matters. 2 guys stepped up to an agreed setting/rules and one guy won, the other guy lost.

Yah rules. No eye gouges, respect the tap, and no point of the elbows.

Very minimal.

[1bad65]

IMO the end result is all that really matters. 2 guys stepped up to an agreed setting/rules and one guy won, the other guy lost.

Sadly, some people are incapable of seeing it that way.

[Anthony_ATT]

Sadly, some people are incapable of seeing it that way.

Here's the truth...

A half blind (Legally blind in one eye), chubby, pack a day smoker BJJ white belt took the best shots a 25 year Kung Fu Master threw, took him to the ground, and submitted him with strikes. Errr, I mean an ear grind.

Not much more than that.

Was it pretty, nope, on both sides. I never said I was a master of anything. Rudy on the other hand, can't use that excuse.

Now Wookie boy, man up. Let's see how a real Kung Fu guy fights.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Sadly, some people are incapable of seeing it that way.

If they had entered into a tournament, I'd see it that way. As it is, I'm astounded we all aren't horrified at the immaturity of it all. Two guys get ****ed at what some other guys wrote on a web chatroom, decide to meet up and "BATTLE!" LOL......it's like those silly little high school girls and the myspace thing. Their only fault? They didn't wheedle a venue out of a friend by a favor....LOL......

[Shaolin Wookie]

Here's the truth...

A half blind (Legally blind in one eye), chubby, pack a day smoker BJJ white belt took the best shots a 25 year Kung Fu Master threw, took him to the ground, and submitted him with strikes. Errr, I mean an ear grind.

Not much more than that.

Was it pretty, nope, on both sides. I never said I was a master of anything. Rudy on the other hand, can't use that excuse.

Now Wookie boy, man up. Let's see how a real Kung Fu guy fights.

Don't you know our stock phrase? The real kung fu guy doesn't have to fight.:D

[Yao Sing]

Here's your big chance to show that 'the Do' is the real deal, combat ready and all.


*** holding breath ***

[Anthony_ATT]

If they had entered into a tournament, I'd see it that way. As it is, I'm astounded we all aren't horrified at the immaturity of it all. Two guys get ****ed at what some other guys wrote on a web chatroom, decide to meet up and "BATTLE!" LOL......it's like those silly little high school girls and the myspace thing.

Actually, it was a Kung Fu guy who spouted off MMA was ****, and Kung Fu Does Work at Bullshido.

At Bullshido, we get together to spar locally and nationally. Challenges were sent back and forth, with the last Gong Sau by Rudy Abel.

Of course, Rudy didn't go after the Pro fighters of Bullshido, but after me, who lost his first MMA fight, thinking I would be easy meat.

The subsequent ending is that even a beginner was more than Rudy Abel could handle, and while I gave him props for hitting hard, he has been stirring the pot again about his knee was bad, I was grabbing his clothes, the ref (who he provided btw) was on my side, he would have won blah blah blah.

This video below of the ear grind is testament to catching Rudy Abel lie about why he tapped out not once, but twice to strikes from me, and not his ear being caught under both of us and grinding on the mat, as his ear never touched the mat.

So, if you want to step up, I'm about wookie size.

[1bad65]

You've been here longer than I. So you know that the common denominator here has always been SifuExcuses. He e-challenged Unkokusai, Knifefighter, and ShaolinTiger00 on this site alone before Anthony and I even showed up. So he talked his smack to the Anthony, who was the wrong guy to talk it to. Anthony took him up on HIS offer. If anyone is ridiculous and immature its the guy who spent 5 years e-challenging people and being banned from multiple forums and not the guy who took him to task and tapped him out.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Actually, it was a Kung Fu guy who spouted off MMA was ****, and Kung Fu Does Work at Bullshido.

At Bullshido, we get together to spar locally and nationally. Challenges were sent back and forth, with the last Gong Sau by Rudy Abel.

Of course, Rudy didn't go after the Pro fighters of Bullshido, but after me, who lost his first MMA fight, thinking I would be easy meat.

The subsequent ending is that even a beginner was more than Rudy Abel could handle, and while I gave him props for hitting hard, he has been stirring the pot again about his knee was bad, I was grabbing his clothes, the ref (who he provided btw) was on my side, he would have won blah blah blah.

This video below of the ear grind is testament to catching Rudy Abel lie about why he tapped out not once, but twice to strikes from me, and not his ear being caught under both of us and grinding on the mat, as his ear never touched the mat.

So, if you want to step up, I'm about wookie size.

But I do think MMA works, so what's our beef? You want to fight over the fact that I think your fight with the monkey man was representative of amateurish, wannabe UFC internet warriors and not sanctioned Full Contact MMA? Okay, but I think we're tapping the proper medium of choice right now, aren't we?

[Shaolin Wookie]

You've been here longer than I. So you know that the common denominator here has always been SifuExcuses. He e-challenged Unkokusai, Knifefighter, and ShaolinTiger00 on this site alone before Anthony and I even showed up. So he talked his smack to the Anthony, who was the wrong guy to talk it to. Anthony took him up on HIS offer. If anyone is ridiculous and immature its the guy who spent 5 years e-challenging people and being banned from multiple forums and not the guy who took him to task and tapped him out.

Because clearly tapping him out has stopped the excuses and challenges, right?;)

[1bad65]

I think your fight with the monkey man was representative of amateurish, wannabe UFC internet warriors and not sanctioned Full Contact MMA?

What part of 'Anthony has fought pro MMA' do you not understand?

[1bad65]

Because clearly tapping him out has stopped the excuses and challenges, right?;)

It might if people like you would laugh his sorry self off this site rather than attacking guys like Anthony.

[Shaolin Wookie]

It might if people like you would laugh his sorry self off this site rather than attacking guys like Anthony.

I don't see a difference in either side..........you guys talk **** about the monkey man nonstop, over a crappy fight that took place like a year ago, and didn't speak well of either side concerning technique or anything that matters, and was about as exciting as the Andy Anderson v. John Hess fight from UFC 5 or so.....

So if he talks bad about the fight and you talk bad about him, you're only stirring the **** you turn your nose up at, and give us all a distaste for this immature diarrhea-fetish. So, I'm going to talk **** about the nature of this conversation, and hopefully lay down the ultimate upper decker to flush the turd that just doesn't seem to want to flush.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Doesn't one of you live in Atlanta?

[David Jamieson]

I'm getting a little ticked that this stuff between abel/anthong and 1bad65 is even allowed to continue. IT's Ridiculous!!!

Close these darn threads and moderate these guys please. They are bouncing all over the place and yapping at each others heels.

holy crap. you guys suck hard at being humans.

I have friends of mine from the kungfu world who look at this forum now as a freaking joke! this causes trickle down.

If this community is nothing to be perceived but a bunch of bickering ninnys, then maybe it's time to leave and let the bullshido guys have their day here take over and run your kungfu into the ground at every opportunity.

Ban them please, or Ban me. One of the two. At least if I'm banned I won't be bothered to access the site in the hopes that this crap has finally stopped.

thanks

[1bad65]

Doesn't one of you live in Atlanta?

I think the guy who made JFS quit lives there.

[1bad65]

Like I said David, SifuExcuses has indeed been banned from other forums for this type of behavior. He has also dropped AT LEAST 3 e-challenges here BEFORE I even showed up. He has been doing this garbage for 5 years now.

Look at the forum. I was discussing politics, the arrest of that guy in Austin, and MMA on this site and going on my merry way until SifuExcuses started back up on me.

[Lucas]

Like I said David, SifuExcuses has indeed been banned from other forums for this type of behavior. He has also dropped AT LEAST 3 e-challenges here BEFORE I even showed up. He has been doing this garbage for 5 years now.

Look at the forum. I was discussing politics, the arrest of that guy in Austin, and MMA on this site and going on my merry way until SifuExcuses started back up on me.

Cant you just ignore him? Like when he says something. DONT respond. it really is that easy.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Cant you just ignore him? Like when he says something. DONT respond. it really is that easy.

Seriously. There's even an IGNORE function. Please listen to Lucas. He seems to be a wise fellow.

I'd use it on 1bad65, Sifu Abel, and Anthony ATT, only that they're on every thread, every day, every page, and I wouldn't understand why SPJ's post on Tibetan olympics suddenly jumps to random poster's comment: "Ear grinds are common in MMA." This forum would turn into Arabic for all I knew.

IF Sifu Abel is still issuing challenges and talking smack, just accept it. It's part of internet culture. It's called trolling. I know a little about it.....:o.......and your half-assed crusade is about as pointed and directed and on-target and successful as the Fourth Crusade. You've settled as many gripes as the IS SHAOLIN DO FOR REAL THREAD, seriously. It's that bad.

Suck it up. You've all failed, and there is no hope for the human race. But in the meantime, can't this Kung Fu Forum remain a Kung Fu forum? We even have an MMA forum where we discuss MMA-related issues.

But your silly little girl-Myspace fight beeyotch fest needs to be taken elsehwere....perhaps the "OTHER RELATED ARTS" Forum, under the heading: "SILLY LITTLE INTERNET VIDEO FIGHTS, LIKE THE SILLY GIRLS FROM MYSPACE WHO FOUGHT OVER A COUPLE OF COMMENTS POSTED ONLINE?"

I can't follow one single interesting argument on this website without tracking through at least 5 pages of your bickering.

Please stop, or I am going to challenge you all to a fight.

Beware the Wook. He's not a great fighter (good at best), so he'll bring a bag of "Shaolin nooggies". I'm counting coup, beeyotch.

[jow yeroc]

Yeah i ain't nobody special and my not posting or logging on here prolly won't
make much difference but this s h i t is so lame. It' s to the point i hate to see
some peoples names attached to threads anymore. I used to just not read
posts that had anything to do with the BS but it's like a cancer that spreads
to threads that have d i ck to do with this stupid internet wack fight s h i t.
No one seems to be modding this very well. It' s beyond old.
I'm done. Maybe i'll check back in a few months. maybe not.

[Yao Sing]

Like I said David, SifuExcuses has indeed been banned from other forums for this type of behavior. He has also dropped AT LEAST 3 e-challenges here BEFORE I even showed up. He has been doing this garbage for 5 years now.

Look at the forum. I was discussing politics, the arrest of that guy in Austin, and MMA on this site and going on my merry way until SifuExcuses started back up on me.

The problem though, and why peeps give YOU grief for this mess, is that for every crap talking post by Sifu Abel there's 5 or more posts from YOU responding to his bs.

Just this page alone you have 5 posts trying to defend you reason for the other 5 or whatever posts in the previous page. And what's worse is that you weren't even one of the guys fighting.

And he's probably just doing it to yank your chain and you jump and squirm to his every command. Anthony is a big boy, he can deal with Rudy all on his own both here and in the ring.

Grow up already.

[1bad65]

How about I do ignore him and if he continues to try and bait people, he gets banned?

I mean, he has done this for 5 friggin years now. He has his own forum to cry and issue e-challenges on. But yet he comes here. I wonder why. :rolleyes: When is enough enough?

I have tried to ignore him before. If I do, he simply posts repeadedly in EVERY thread I'm currently posting on trying to mess with me. So I end up responding so he will shut up, as is the case now.

Again, look at what I was posting and what he was posting before he started it up. He really only posts here like once every few weeks with anything on-topic. The rest is threats, excuses, and more e-challenges. Even my detractors admit I contribute when he is not around.

[unkokusai]

The #1 bannable offense should be telling the moderators what threads to close and who to ban! :mad:








...what a minute!... :eek:

[Shaolin Wookie]

How about I do ignore him and if he continues to try and bait people, he gets banned?

I mean, he has done this for 5 friggin years now. He has his own forum to cry and issue e-challenges on. But yet he comes here. I wonder why. :rolleyes: When is enough enough?

I have tried to ignore him before. If I do, he simply posts repeadedly in EVERY thread I'm currently posting on trying to mess with me. So I end up responding so he will shut up, as is the case now.

Again, look at what I was posting and what he was posting before he started it up. He really only posts here like once every few weeks with anything on-topic. The rest is threats, excuses, and more e-challenges. Even my detractors admit I contribute when he is not around.

That may be true, but we can say the same thing about him. Your bickering is a constant baiting-retaliation on both sides, and your retaliations are nothing more than attempts to bait him into retaliation for his original baiting. It's a self-perpetuating *****fest, and I'm not going to pardon you even though we sometimes have good arguments.

There is a point where none of us can determine exactly who is the crap and who is the fly.

[Lucas]

Wait, can we spin this into a weekly reality T.V. show?

If it happens I want royalties for tossing it out there....

call the show


E-Challenge

[Shaolin Wookie]

The #1 bannable offense should be telling the moderators what threads to close and who to ban! :mad:








...what a minute!... :eek:

The issue here is, this spills over into every thread, and the only way to prevent it is by banninating the whole lot of 'em. If Abel gets banned, he'll come back in some form or another as the next John Takeshi.

I'm asking you guys to either:

1) Take your posts to Bullshido where this kind of what-came-first-the-monkey-or-the-ear-grind BS bickering is honored.

2) Keep posting here and put Sifu Abel on IGNORE, or exercise one of those "lame" kung fu virtues--RESTRAINT.

3) Get banned.

4) Get lost.

[1bad65]

Well SifuExcuses won't take it to Bullshido. He knows he will be called to the carpet over there. Notice how he never makes these 'meet me at my gym' or 'ill be there sometime' or 'im coming in Oct' at Bullshido, he does those here.

I cannot put him ignore. I need to be able to see if again threatens to do underhanded, cowardly acts like informing APD that I'm a drug dealer, or Fox saying he will show at my home or work.

Again, I will not respond if there is a promise that he will be banned for stirring the pot once again. Like I said earlier, a bully often takes silence as a sign of fear. We all know he is a punk and a bully. Silence could well embolden him to actually do something like his drug dealer threat or Fox's threats to show at my home or work.

[1bad65]

If Abel gets banned, he'll come back in some form or another as the next John Takeshi.

Seems like everyone knows he is the root of all the drama here, but banning him has somehow never been done in 5 years. :rolleyes:

Fuuny thing is, he actually accuses me of having alias accounts here.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Well SifuExcuses won't take it to Bullshido. He knows he will be called to the carpet over there. Notice how he never makes these 'meet me at my gym' or 'ill be there sometime' or 'im coming in Oct' at Bullshido, he does those here.

I cannot put him ignore. I need to be able to see if again threatens to do underhanded, cowardly acts like informing APD that I'm a drug dealer, or Fox saying he will show at my home or work.

Again, I will not respond if there is a promise that he will be banned for stirring the pot once again. Like I said earlier, a bully often takes silence as a sign of fear. We all know he is a punk and a bully. Silence could well embolden him to actually do something like his drug dealer threat or Fox's threats to show at my home or work.

It's okay. I work part-time in law enforcement, and I get calls from crazy people all the time. Sooner or later, we send OPS guys out to tell them to quit calling or we'll have them arrested for false alarms...that is if it's not a homeless dude on crack or a bipolar schizo calling from a payphone. They give up sooner or later, and we don't take those calls seriously anyways unless they have solid information such as time, place, the drug, names, etc.

You're not Batman, and he's not the Joker.

To quote Mr. Freeze: Chill out.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Seems like everyone knows he is the root of all the drama here, but banning him has somehow never been done in 5 years. :rolleyes:

Fuuny thing is, he actually accuses me of having alias accounts here.

He's not the root of the drama. You're the root, as well. You and Anthony, and you must realize this in order to beat the level 5 troll and move on to the next stage to fight the cyborg Chong Li in the Interstellar Kumite.

I say: ban you, ban Anthony, ban Abel. Or, leave well enough alone and act like adults.

Or, I'll fight you all. Then we'll see the "Do" in action.

Shao-lin Do or Shao-lin Do not, there is no try.

[Shaolin Wookie]

I'm done with this matter for now. If there's another flare-up, well see who's throwing water on the grease fire and see if we can't get the mods to do something. ;)

[Anthony_ATT]

But I do think MMA works, so what's our beef? You want to fight over the fact that I think your fight with the monkey man was representative of amateurish, wannabe UFC internet warriors and not sanctioned Full Contact MMA? Okay, but I think we're tapping the proper medium of choice right now, aren't we?

Sure why not. My fight with Rudy was for less.

I just want another highlight reel.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Sure why not. My fight with Rudy was for less.

I just want another highlight reel.

Let me know when you're in Atlanta, home of the Human Highlight Reel.

[unkokusai]

The issue here is, this spills over into every thread, and the only way to prevent it is by banninating the whole lot of 'em. .


You should be banned for that post.



D'oh! I did it again!

[mawali]

TCMA has not kept up and is unwilling to do so unless there are cross training in systems like Beijing BJJ to show the ropes and perhaps add realistic tapouts to TCMA in MMA!
If TCMA was as 'powerful' as BJJ, we would have had the following:
1. One touch knockout
2. Application of qinna where the opponent would be immobilized with 10 seconds of a match
3. Application of shuaijiao
4. Application of any TCMA throwing or kicking art.

With all the talk, I have never seen a TCMA exponent really show his metal against other systems. Like I said, they do exist in secret but I have never seen them so it is my fault!

Presently the only true deal is Cung Le and the Tim Cartmell crew who usually go up against others styles (usually BJJ or Judo).

[BM2]

The #1 bannable offense should be telling the moderators what threads to close and who to ban! :mad:








...what a minute!... :eek:

I don't know haow funny that really is, I am dringking tequlia right now and right now that was funny:D

[BM2]

wookie you have two accounts on here too don't you?
1.ANyway, you shouldn't have talked crap to Anthony about his fight without stepping up yourself. I think that should be a rule.
2. I think that there should be a thread where 1bad65, fox, and Sifuable could hash it out and leave the other threads alone. It could challenge the Talk to the got chi girls thread in length.

[Fox]

But Fox teaches 3 year olds! :D

Really , didn't I say my youngest stund was almost 5. I do not not train him, I have a partner that does that.

Anthony, where did you get your info on my fighting ability?

[Fox]

Prove that I called you Gym two times please.:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

TCMA has not kept up and is unwilling to do so unless there are cross training in systems like Beijing BJJ to show the ropes and perhaps add realistic tapouts to TCMA in MMA!
If TCMA was as 'powerful' as BJJ, we would have had the following:
1. One touch knockout
2. Application of qinna where the opponent would be immobilized with 10 seconds of a match
3. Application of shuaijiao
4. Application of any TCMA throwing or kicking art.

With all the talk, I have never seen a TCMA exponent really show his metal against other systems. Like I said, they do exist in secret but I have never seen them so it is my fault!

Presently the only true deal is Cung Le and the Tim Cartmell crew who usually go up against others styles (usually BJJ or Judo).
And both Cung and Tim cross train in BJJ and MMA.

What this thread needs is more scantily clad women !!

[1bad65]

Prove that I called you Gym two times please.:D

You admitted it. Of course you said you never called, then you said it was once, then you said it was twice, then you said your wife did it but you did not know, then you said you knew, and now you are denying it again.

Do you deny that you or your wife called my gym?

[Fox]

You admitted it. Of course you said you never called, then you said it was once, then you said it was twice, then you said your wife did it but you did not know, then you said you knew, and now you are denying it again.

Do you deny that you or your wife called my gym?


Prove I said I called your gym twice? My wife of cource said she called once, and but never called a second time. I think I will go with a bs mod once told me , If they do not believe you don't worry about it.

[Fox]

And both Cung and Tim cross train in BJJ and MMA.

What this thread needs is more scantily clad women !!

I believe crosstraing is the best thing for everyone.

[1bad65]

You said the first call was to ask if they had a MMA program there because some relative or friend of yours was moving to Texas. :rolleyes: You said the second call was to see if me and Taylor trained there. You even said they knew Taylor, as he is an instructor, but were not sure of me (as there are alot of students).

You also said you are coming to fight me and I said I would pay for your travel expenses, but that's another story.

[Fox]

You said the first call was to ask if they had a MMA program there because some relative or friend of yours was moving to Texas. :rolleyes: You said the second call was to see if me and Taylor trained there. You even said they knew Taylor, as he is an instructor, but were not sure of me (as there are alot of students).

You also said you are coming to fight me and I said I would pay for your travel expenses, but that's another story.

My wife told me this, not me calling anyones gym. I also said you are not worth the trip.
For someone who whines about threads started about him, you might take a good look in the mirror. I believe you have started two about me.

[Fox]

While I am at it who is the other person on here that offerd to fight me?

[BM2]

What this thread needs is more scantily clad women !![/QUOTE]


That pic reminds me of the need for diversity in our daily lives.:D I wonder how that would go over at work during our diversity awareness talks. We even have diversity awareness lunches, focus groups etc. but not a diversity calendar!:D
Calendar Girls, everyday, everyday of the year!
Oh, I know that this is off topic, what started it with Fox, SifuAbel ?

[1bad65]

So you admit she called then?

You said you were coming. I was only 'not worth the time' once I accepted. You really should be ashamed of yourself.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Once there was this fine looking woman:

[1bad65]

While I am at it who is the other person on here that offerd to fight me?

MasterKiller offered to have some students come down and spar you and your tough wife. ;) You declined.

[Fox]

So you admit she called then?

You said you were coming. I was only 'not worth the time' once I accepted. You really should be ashamed of yourself.

Yep she called not me. Where is this three yr old I train as well?

[Fox]

MasterKiller offered to have some students come down and spar you and your tough wife. ;) You declined.

Think again. He offered my wife to come and spar his students to see what you were missing out on.

[1bad65]

Think again. He offered my wife to come and spar his students to see what you were missing out on.

You morons still declined.

Why is travelling to his gym not good for you? After all, she was gonna travel all the way to Houston, Tx to fight me! :rolleyes:

[MasterKiller]

Don't drag me back into this. I have an open, friendly offer on the table. That's all that needs to be said.

[1bad65]

Where is this three yr old I train as well?

How soon you forget.

"Although the center’s main emphasis is on self defense for adults, it also offers classes for children as young as 3."

http://www.stillwater-newspress.com/finance/local_story_070093517.html

[1bad65]

Don't drag me back into this. I have an open, friendly offer on the table. That's all that needs to be said.

Don't worry, you're probably 'not worth his time' either. :D

Hey Fox, I've so far offered to pay your travel expenses, and we all know gas is not cheap. What would make it 'worth your time' to carry out the threats you made? ;)

[Fox]

Don't drag me back into this. I have an open, friendly offer on the table. That's all that needs to be said.

Thank-You Mk. 1bad already dragged you into it in a different forum. If my wife had not been rear ended, she would most likely have been down for a friendly meeting.

I will be at the WCL June 7th, if you ever want to go let me know. I can get you a free ticket.

[Fox]

Don't worry, you're probably 'not worth his time' either. :D

Hey Fox, I've so far offered to pay your travel expenses, and we all know gas is not cheap. What would make it 'worth your time' to carry out the threats you made? ;)

You come here,which I know it will not happen..LOLZ:D

[Fox]

How soon you forget.

"Although the center’s main emphasis is on self defense for adults, it also offers classes for children as young as 3."

http://www.stillwater-newspress.com/finance/local_story_070093517.html

more free advertisement, thanks

sorry to say I have no three yr olds, and do not train them.

[1bad65]

You come here,which I know it will not happen..LOLZ:D

What a punk.

Remember, you said you were coming here.

[1bad65]

I will be at the WCL June 7th, if you ever want to go let me know. I can get you a free ticket.

One of the guys I train off and on with fights for WCL.

[1bad65]

Thank-You Mk. 1bad already dragged you into it in a different forum. If my wife had not been rear ended, she would most likely have been down for a friendly meeting.

You and SifuExcuses sure are one of a kind!

You declined at the time, and now you use that recent wreck as the new excuse!

[Fox]

One of the guys I train off and on with fights for WCL.


My son got to go into Chucks bus. Hopefully this time we get pics. What team does he fight for?