China drops the hammer on terrorists

[Drake]

Sometimes I really love how these guys operate...

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/04/10/olympic.plot/index.html

[jo]

Ahhhhhh, China, no pesky Bill of Rights or any sign of a conscience with regard to due process.

A NeoCon's wet dream.

-jo

[rogue]

A little wagging the dog?

[cjurakpt]

God, could they try to be a little less contrived? pay lip service with a thinly veiled action to give what you think the world wants to see to appease them when they are freaked out about TIbet: just their way of telling the world that they are team players...so sad...

[SPJ]

if the news is true or not--

if there is something that moves, we may say it is just a wind.

if there is a shadow, we may say we do not need to look into it?

--

if there is a rumor of terrorist bombing or kidnapping plots, we do not need to do anything?

if there is a bomb threat on a building, we do not need to evacuate?

--

it is not important that this piece of news is fabricated or not.

but IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO KEEP EVERYONE SAFE.

--

[SPJ]

my point is that

everyone cares about the safety of all athletes, family and tourists.

not just Chinese government.

:eek::confused::(

[bodhitree]

Ahhhhhh, China, no pesky Bill of Rights or any sign of a conscience with regard to due process.

A NeoCon's wet dream.

-jo

I couldn't have said it better myself



God, could they try to be a little less contrived? pay lip service with a thinly veiled action to give what you think the world wants to see to appease them when they are freaked out about TIbet: just their way of telling the world that they are team players...so sad...

same thing I said about the last guys quote....




Why doesn't the world boycott Chinese goods? I mean seriously, it would boost other developing nations economies and take away some money and power from the beasts that are dealing arms to the Sudan and trying to 'assimilate' Tibetans by killing thier culture.


Oh, and if any Chinese read this, noone cares that you are 'developing' Tibet, did Tibet ask China to come in and develop it 50 years ago???? I'm so sick of these brainwashed.......


I don't wish the Chinese people any bad, but they have been brainwashed by state controlled media for to long, and they believe and trust their government because their lives have improved economically. They (well, a lot anyway) just can't see the reality. This regime is the same regime that committed attrocities in the great leap forward, the cultural revolution, the Tibetan protests in the 80's, Tiananmen square, supports Omar al'Bashir's government in northern Sudan, the list goes on and on.....


Down with the Chinese government!

[sanjuro_ronin]

You know, I am not a big fan of China, never have been, but I do know that if one wants to effect change, its easier to do it as a friend and ally than by trying to strong arm people/governments.

[bodhitree]

You know, I am not a big fan of China, never have been, but I do know that if one wants to effect change, its easier to do it as a friend and ally than by trying to strong arm people/governments.


I agree, but I'm not talking about a government embargo, but rather a consumer boycott. Consumers around the world who don't approve of Chinese actions should 'ease the demand for Chinese goods' so to speak. This wouldn't be government strong arming, it would be consumers not investing in a regime they do not support.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I agree, but I'm not talking about a government embargo, but rather a consumer boycott. Consumers around the world who don't approve of Chinese actions should 'ease the demand for Chinese goods' so to speak. This wouldn't be government strong arming, it would be consumers not investing in a regime they do not support.

Hmmm, tomato, tomahto ?
Besides, we both know that will never happen.
Consumers care about themselves, just like those celebreties that go on TV to ask for support for this and support for that and give money to this cause and feed the hungry in Africa and its only 20 bucks and then go back to their 20 million dollar homes with 8 bedrooms for them, their cat and some token spouse.

My faith in civilization as a whole is far less than my faith in the individual.

[David Jamieson]

You would do more good to demand that your employer stop outsourcing to countries that have poor records on labour laws and human rights...India and China for instance.

If your company was forced to change their tactics in regards to people viewed as costs instead of assets, you would see change faster than boycotting goods.

Don't give them the business to begin with.

seriously.

Is that one a little too difficult? I mean, you do have to stick your own neck out instead of just pointing.

[sanjuro_ronin]

You would do more good to demand that your employer stop outsourcing to countries that have poor records on labour laws and human rights...India and China for instance.

If your company was forced to change their tactics in regards to people viewed as costs instead of assets, you would see change faster than boycotting goods.

Don't give them the business to begin with.

seriously.

Is that one a little too difficult? I mean, you do have to stick your own neck out instead of just pointing.

Never gonna happen, world market and competition and all that.
We have out priced ourselves from the world market with the labour rates doe UNSKILLED labour.

[SPJ]

with the rise of ren ming bi, the import from china to US will slow.

economic knows no boundary, or as chinese saying goes, money will follow or flow with money, or money is like a water, will go where is easy to go,

do you know chinese farmer turned laborers do not have good benefit or salary as the counterpart in the west.

what is cheap product in europe or us, are cheap labor of chinese farmers turned laborers in the factory.

or low inflationary rates on products and goods in the states are results of chinese laborers sweat.

--

[SPJ]

Chinese domestic issue with tibet and african policy

--

no comment.

[SPJ]

development of tibet.

it is a high ground, or difficult to reach area.

foreign capital is welcome in the coastal cities of china,

the economic development of the great far west is high on agenda,

yes, foreign capitals are welcomed to develop tibet.

however, most would stay with coastal cities with shipping routes, airports, rail roads and banking etc in place.

Tian Jin is the port for north china.

da lian and lu shun is for north east china.

Shang hai for central china and also for tibet. with railroad connections.

--

Tibet with its forbidden terrains.

yes please foreign capital come to build roads and factories. I guess none would be interested.

are you interested?

--

:confused:

[Black Jack II]

Ahhhhhh, China, no pesky Bill of Rights or any sign of a conscience with regard to due process.

A NeoCon's wet dream.


Shows you have zero idea of what the term NeoCon and it's history even means.

Neoconservatism is mainly based on the strict importance of foreign policy so America can maintain its lead role of superpower.

If you want to look at a side that does not understand the pesky bill of rights, than you have to look to the left with the socialists.

[SPJ]

as far as government goes;

it governs people.

with 2200 years of dynastic rules or ruled by one family,

brief republican from 1911 to 1949.

now 4th gen of PRC.

mao->deng->jiang->hu/wen

yes, great leap forward destroyed agriculture and industries

yes, cultural revolution destroyed cultural and schoolings, more people died for starvation then people died during 8 years of resistence against japan invasion.

mao era ended with his passing.

it was unprecedented on so many levels in chinese history.

--

deng came to power, he promised not to "rectify" the people involved in cultural revolution. meaning the final say was from mao.

deng broke the promises, he soon put "gang of 4" on trials.

--

Tian An Men students demo, there were also many uprising or demo thruout china including tibet.

--

Jiang came to power due to pro party comments and handpicked by deng.

--

most think hu/wen are moderate and keen on economic development of china or catching up with 21st century.

--

chinese people would know if a leader is good or not by what he or she did, does and will do.

--

there are 4 types of leaders.

1. zhi jun or a wise leader, he or she sees the future or with vision, he or she leads the people toward a better future. there are not many in chinese history or world history.

2. ming jun, or understanding or knowing leader, he or she knows what is best for the people, however, he or she does not have enough abilities, he or she will recruit wise and good people to assit

3. yong jun, ordinary leader, nothing good, nothing bad happens

4. fun jun, low ability leader, he or she does not what is good or what is bad for the people, good people are abused, bad people may get away with things. etc

--

we all know any change of dynasty or family rules, any change of party rule mean blood shed or bloody wars.

communist army rose up in 1927 due to about to be purged by nationalist party both within the party and army at the time.

so they broke away from KMT and ran its own government and army.

the rest is history.

--

[SPJ]

what I meant is that

chinese people enjoyed unprecedented economic growth at the present time or better than any other time during its 5000 years of history.

however, the social equality, health care, schooling for inland poorer or agricultural provinces--

like or it? development of tibet is included.

all the critical economic issues were addressed in the recent party annual meeting.

--

how much can the current leadership achieve for both china and tibet?

we shall see.

--

olympics is just athletic games.

--

the survival of CPC depends on the continuance of open door policy and economic development.

--

there are 1.3 billion people or subjects.

there are only 4 million CPC cadres.

--

which is heavier? which is lighter?

what is more important?

--

yes the livilihood of the people.

--

[bodhitree]

For those who wish to boycott:

http://www.boycottmadeinchina.org/en/action_tools/

and thier links to Made in USA products

http://www.boycottmadeinchina.org/en/boycott_hub/alternative_shopping/

Not that I'm against buying products from developing countries, I'm actually for it, just not in China's case.

[SPJ]

with all the political posts;

I meant leave olympics alone,

let sports be sports.

let the athletes compete and enjoy their days of glory (in the sun).

--

all the ongoing political strifes, contentions among ethnics, countries etc

please do not take away the thunders or spotlights from the athletes.

--

live and let live.

--

:D;):p

[sanjuro_ronin]

For those who wish to boycott:

http://www.boycottmadeinchina.org/en/action_tools/

and thier links to Made in USA products

http://www.boycottmadeinchina.org/en/boycott_hub/alternative_shopping/

Not that I'm against buying products from developing countries, I'm actually for it, just not in China's case.

Good luck with that !

[Drake]

Good luck in blocking all Chinese manufactured goods. It's virtually impossible.

The Chinese had evidence of terrorism on the people they arrested, including the stuff they were going to use. Maybe if terrorists didn't cause so many problems we wouldn't have an issue with this? But yeah... go ahead and side with the guys caught redhanded. In the US they'd get off scot free due to the way the system works. Hope it's worth it!

[sanjuro_ronin]

As I look at my desk, everything on it was made in China, from stapler, to pends to wireless mouse and key board, you name it.

[bodhitree]

Good luck in blocking all Chinese manufactured goods. It's virtually impossible.



Mr. Illeterate, go back and re-read, I didn't say anything about "blocking", I asked why people don't boycott, which would be a choice of every individual...



The Chinese had evidence of terrorism on the people they arrested, including the stuff they were going to use. Maybe if terrorists didn't cause so many problems we wouldn't have an issue with this? But yeah... go ahead and side with the guys caught redhanded. In the US they'd get off scot free due to the way the system works. Hope it's worth it

Tell that to prisoners at Guatanamo Bay....


You aren't by chance retarded are you? I don't want to pick on you if you are.

[Black Jack II]

I try and not buy anything chinese, it is not 100% possible in today's market but when offered a choice, I always go with American, even if I have to pay more.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I try and not buy anything chinese, it is not 100% possible in today's market but when offered a choice, I always go with American, even if I have to pay more.

And even then, many made in America products have made in china components/parts/

[Drake]

Mr. Illeterate, go back and re-read, I didn't say anything about "blocking", I asked why people don't boycott, which would be a choice of every individual...




Tell that to prisoners at Guatanamo Bay....


You aren't by chance retarded are you? I don't want to pick on you if you are.


Gee...where do you think we got those guys at Gitmo? Cleveland? And by blocking I meant keeping from keeping into your home. Again... impossible.

So, while the insults do help me understand your degree of understanding and civil discussion, they are useless, much like your argument.

[SPJ]

the other thread is too winding and too long.

I will post more view points in this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBY_SnaD8JE&feature=related

Li Ao is a popular speaker in Taiwan.

he formed his views based on data or facts.

He cited reports from the state department of US.

before 1959, tibet was a society of agricultural slavery worse than those in middle age europe.

only 5% of the people consisting of the officials, nobilities and high ranking monks,

they owned all the land, forests, and water rights.

more than 90% are farmers and "slaves".

--

tibetan buddhism consisting of many and many ghosts and spirits

--

Richard Gere and Steven Seagal are supporters of tibetan buddism but without much knowledge of it.

--

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eRvO_kLKuA&feature=related

if the farmers/slaves borrowed some money or food from the landlords or monks,

they had to pay 20 to 30% interest rates.

once a family borrowed some kilograms of food, it took the grandfather, father and grand son to pay off in 77 years. however, the monks said they still owed more.

if you are born into a farmer family, you will be registered as farmers for life.

there are different castes or classes of people.

the punishments were very severe, hand and foot shackles in jail.

--

in 1951, there were 17 agreements, so the slavery system were still in place.

--

in 1959, PLA went to tibet and abolished the slavery systems and high interet rate loans and severe punishments in jail--

--

before 98% of the people in tibet were illiterate or not able to read.

--

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3W3Pnu3L6g&feature=related

this clip is more relaxing or humeruous.

Li Ao said both he and da lai la ma were both born in 1935.

They both do not eat after lunch; may be a snack at late nite.

in the old agricultural society, when the nite time came, just burned the candle for a short while and then went to bed. that was why nobody eat a big dinner.

this is a good way to live longer.

--

the religion of tibetan buddhism is based on the premise of reincarnation.

the 13th da lai la ma passed away and faced north east.

so they went toward that direction and found a farmer boy from Qing Hai.

and made him a monk at age of 7. he is da lai la ma the 14th reincarnation.

--

Li Ao think, it was a very dark age society in tibet for over 1000 years.

and only CPC surgically reformed the area and also built a railroad that opened in july 7th, 2007.

the railroad will pull central plain/china and tibet close together.

we have to stay together, so that tibet would not go back to a slavery society and ruled by a few.

--

end of his talk.

[Shaolinlueb]

boycott china? are you really that stupid. do you know how much that would handicap the american economy? you would walk into a walmart and pretty much nothing would be on the shelves. think before talking.

as far as not liking china, then don't go there. its their country and in the end of it. they can do whatever the F*** they want with it.

do i agree with what they are doing? no. but a bunch of whiny americans talking about civil rights is the last thing they care about.

[David Jamieson]

boycott china? are you really that stupid. do you know how much that would handicap the american economy? you would walk into a walmart and pretty much nothing would be on the shelves. think before talking.

as far as not liking china, then don't go there. its their country and in the end of it. they can do whatever the F*** they want with it.

do i agree with what they are doing? no. but a bunch of whiny americans talking about civil rights is the last thing they care about.

You raise a couple of interesting points.

1.why is the American economy so dependent on that of another nation?

2. why is walmart the only viable alternative for shopping, they have extremely poor policies in regards to labour laws and they gut local economies where ever they set up.

3. most people don't go to China whether they like it or not. Certainly no one emigrates there. No numbers worth mentioning anyways.

4. why can't these goods be produced in the USA, they certainly were before.

5. why is corporate outsourcing tolerated legally at the levels it is wherein the American citizen is the one who winds up getting hurt by the outsourcing policies that are allowed under current laws which essentially cut the throat of the American worker in favour of the bottom line for the corporations.

6. Other citizens taking up a cause against the actions of another nation is nothing new and America is a bastion for these types of behaviours and as what should be a beacon of democracy, freedom and human rights, well America SHOULD be doing these things.

[Drake]

The act of using a computer alone already means you have failed in your mission to boycott China. I suggest throwing your comp out if you are truly devoted to this.

[David Jamieson]

The act of using a computer alone already means you have failed in your mission to boycott China. I suggest throwing your comp out if you are truly devoted to this.

Not true and not a valid assumption.

While this is the case in point with some brands, it doesn't apply to all.

you would probably be flabbergasted to know that a great deal of computer parts are made right in the US of A in California. Not saying that a lot isn't made in china, the cheaper knock off brands almost all are, but Japan takes a lot of the work as well.

The finished product you have will have a great deal of made in USA.

[SPJ]

like it or not.

China is the factory for the world.

all the name brands have factories in China.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM8lQio7niQ&feature=related

a nice and cute tibetan song about the home of a snail.

'I only need a small home/house, among all the skyscrapers, or tall buildings in the city"

"give me only a small space, I would feel warm (physically and emotionally) inside, that is all I need"


Notes: it is a nice song complaining about the rising of housing price. "I was like a snail with a heavy shell on the back and crawling slowly upward," meaning I work very hard but only make some little money slowly, and I cannot afford the nice and big apartments in a tall building, etc etc.


:)

[David Jamieson]

like it or not.

China is the factory for the world.

all the name brands have factories in China.



Yes. I believe there is inequity here.
A person working in a factory in China is no where near getting anything even similar to the wages and treatment of the counterpart in America.

Not pluralistic, not relativistic, But Chinese labour laws are extremely poor and there is much corruption. If people were more informed, there would be change and the field would level more quickly than it has been.

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6FoWskUO_U&feature=related

another song by the same singer.

:)

[SPJ]

Yes. I believe there is inequity here.
A person working in a factory in China is no where near getting anything even similar to the wages and treatment of the counterpart in America.

Not pluralistic, not relativistic, But Chinese labour laws are extremely poor and there is much corruption. If people were more informed, there would be change and the field would level more quickly than it has been.

agreed.

:(

[bodhitree]

boycott china? are you really that stupid. do you know how much that would handicap the american economy? you would walk into a walmart and pretty much nothing would be on the shelves. think before talking.

as far as not liking china, then don't go there. its their country and in the end of it. they can do whatever the F*** they want with it.

do i agree with what they are doing? no. but a bunch of whiny americans talking about civil rights is the last thing they care about.


Actually the amount of Chinese exports going to America has been reducing in recent years because of other developing nations producing cheaper goods than China (Vietnam, Honduras, Bangladesh for example). Boycotting China would NOT disrupt the american economy, the forces of supply and demand would create a demand that would gladly be filled by other developing nations. China actually has a large population with many needs and has been importing many goods from other developing nations, so these nations have manufacturing infrastructure already in place.

I don't think China cares about the rest of the world protesting, and I don't think protests change anything really, that's why economic actions are required if anything is to change. After Tiananmen the world did put economic sanctions on China, when those sanctions were lifted because of the apperance of better conditions (and maybe actual better conditions for regular Chinese) in China, that was when manufacturing and exporting took off in China. China did step into the role of the worlds largest manufacturer, but there are many other nations who could easily split that pie, and more deservedly so, stupid (since you started with insults, stupid).

[Shaolinlueb]

You raise a couple of interesting points.

1.why is the American economy so dependent on that of another nation?

2. why is walmart the only viable alternative for shopping, they have extremely poor policies in regards to labour laws and they gut local economies where ever they set up.

3. most people don't go to China whether they like it or not. Certainly no one emigrates there. No numbers worth mentioning anyways.

4. why can't these goods be produced in the USA, they certainly were before.

5. why is corporate outsourcing tolerated legally at the levels it is wherein the American citizen is the one who winds up getting hurt by the outsourcing policies that are allowed under current laws which essentially cut the throat of the American worker in favour of the bottom line for the corporations.

6. Other citizens taking up a cause against the actions of another nation is nothing new and America is a bastion for these types of behaviours and as what should be a beacon of democracy, freedom and human rights, well America SHOULD be doing these things.



1. cause north america trqade federation destroyed us economy.

2. you got target, sears, other chains, hardly any mom and pop shops left. cause the big corporate ones are moving in. i hate it, but thats the way it is. america likes cheap.

3. agreed, businesses go there for cheap labor and to make money, somehow.

4. we can produce them, but they would cost 10x more cause of unions and wages in america, it "wouldnt be enough profit for the coprorations" this is a profit driven land.

5. north american trade fed again. and once again they government under the BUSH admin gives them tax breaks.

6. america is the only country that has been on the un security force for 50+ years. why do we have to police the world.

i dont agree with the chinese and what they are doing, but hey i am just one man, i work and got more important things on my mind. i say you send all the hot chinese women over here and whatever.

like the VP of exxon said (they made record breaking profits in 2007,. 40 BILLION) "TIMES ARE HARD." what an @sshole he is.

when it comes down to it, the US GOVERNMENT has to step in and say enough is enough., gas prices are at record highs, people cant afford anything, this sh*t has to stop.

[Black Jack II]

I don't like to push money back into a communist country, **** China and the wicker ****ty basket they rode in on, and if you look hard enough and take some personal responsibility you can really cut down on what items you bring into your house that are made in the land of Mao.

For that reason alone I often don't shop in Walmart or K-Mart, not that Walmart is a bad business at all but that a serious amount of their goods are made in China, same with Gateweay computers and Dell or Mattel Toys.

Again, buy what you want, for me I like to pay attention to where my money is going.

I get my haircut a real old fashioned barber for the same vein of reasoning. Plus, where else can you get a shave, hot towl and facial massage for that kind of money.

btw fellas, if you want a bada$$ shave, I mean you want to really treat yourself at home, spend the cash and do a old fashioned wet shave with a real deal safety razor and badger hair brush.

[Shaolinlueb]

blackjack it hurts me too man. i would love to pump more money in this country. but first we have to get our policies straight. the current admin of this country gives tax breaks to companies that farm out their labor, and over a couple million in tax breaks to oil companies that had record profits last year. they need to start giving tax breaks to companies that keep jobs in this country and do away with big oil tax breaks, they aren't hurting for money. vote obama 08. ;)

[SPJ]

actually, Mao was the worst dictator ever in Chinese history.

cultural revolution was a great "mistake" caused by him.

the portrait of Mao was removed from Tian An Men square and then placed back again.

so there are Dr. sun yat sen and mao portraits hanging.

Deng basically "rectified" the people involved in cultural revolution with 10 "crimes" or condemnations.

however due to large support from farmers for mao even today, and he being the founder of PRC, his portrait remains on tian an men square.

today in China, it is an open door policy and market economy (capitalism). started with Deng, continued by Jiang and big advancement by hu/wen.

marx and lenin portraits were long gone.

in CPC meeting, the socialist ideology continued to be changed or dropped or reworded.

they call it socialist market economy with chinese flavor.

que? just try to cover capitalism under the name/cloak of socialism/communism.

no need to boycott China made US products.

b/c the money will come back the states, with Chinese buy boeing airplanes, or other goods from the states.

the huge foreign reserve is the main reason driving up inflation and ren ming bi in China in the range of 6.99 = 1 US dollar.

the reserve has to be spent.

so China use the money it make to spend on infrastructure, railroads, dig dams on yang tz river etc etc.

China also needs to use the money to buy goods and services from the states and european union.

the buying power of the China's comsumers could not be ignored.

like it or not, US (north america), European Union and China are the largest markets and producers, or trading partners in the world.

--

really want to help tibetan people

then go there and start some business.

however, they do not have a lot of buying power or money.

you may have a factory there, but transportation in the high ground is very difficult

or basically nobody would do any business there due to its forbidden terrains.

--

most important of all, the air or oxygen is very thin, it is very difficult to breathe for people that are used low sea level ground.

when you travel to lan zhou, it is already very high in altitude, a lot of old people may not adapt to coldness and thin air already. some even need oxygen mask.

let along go even higher to lhasa?

manufacturing technology, even cooking would be difficult or different.

--

[Shaolinlueb]

the amount of products we import to china is small compared to the amount we import from them. as for the omney coming back, it hasnt really all that much. thewy buy up land in the usa and make more money off of us cititzens now.

[SPJ]

yes.

trade neogociation or communication needs to done on ongoing bases.

US traded with Japan, there were trade talks all the time to balance the trade deficit in the 60's, 70's, 80's---.

so China and US would and should have trade talks all the time, too.

--

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjnIM2LewCg&feature=related

if you go to lan zhou, try the beef noodle or ra men pulling noodle.

it is hui or moslem style.

the noodle is slippery, "tough" or -- just try it you would know the difference.

--

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWsRbifeZUA&feature=related

be very careful crossing the street.

--

[Samurai Jack]

You would do more good to demand that your employer stop outsourcing to countries that have poor records on labour laws and human rights...India and China for instance.

If your company was forced to change their tactics in regards to people viewed as costs instead of assets, you would see change faster than boycotting goods.

Don't give them the business to begin with.

seriously.

Is that one a little too difficult? I mean, you do have to stick your own neck out instead of just pointing.

Actually, I have done this, although not as an employee of said company.

Whenever I need to call an 800# for any kind of help and get someone on the line who is obviously not a native english speaker, I politely ask to speak to someone who is i.e. "I'm really sorry, but I can't understand you. Would you transfer me to someone in the U.S.?"

Invariably they do, although it often takes some convincing. Once that's done, I have my issue resolved with the U.S. rep, I tell the operator that I don't support their company outsourcing, and I add that I won't ever speak to someone from outside the U.S. I had to cancel an old membership to McAffee (anti-virus) because they didn't have a U.S. customer service rep.

The bottom line is this: If most customers are from the U.S. and they won't speak to or work with outsourced employees, those companies won't keep hiring them.

Maybe it'll catch on.

[unkokusai]

Actually, I have done this, although not as an employee of said company.

Whenever I need to call an 800# for any kind of help and get someone on the line who is obviously not a native English speaker, I politely ask to speak to someone who is i.e. "I'm really sorry, but I can't understand you. Would you transfer me to someone in the U.S.?" .




Um, what if the person turns out to be working in the US and just happens to have an accent?

[Samurai Jack]

Well, I suppose if it ever happens (although it hasn't in over a decade) I would still insist on speaking to someone I could understand clearly.

Additionally, I have also asked operators where they are calling from flat-out... if you felt compeled to take a less tactful route, the result of the exchange would be the same.

[unkokusai]

Well, I suppose if it ever happens (although it hasn't in over a decade) I would still insist on speaking to someone I could understand clearly.



So if it just happened to be a US citizen with an accent you would refuse to deal with them?

[Samurai Jack]

Of course I'd demand someone who I could understand. That's the point of the call! LOL

If I'd been trying to be tactfully evasive, on the other hand, I suppose I'd gauge the situation for a tactful solution, but I'd probably be as likely to straight up tell them my motives at that point. I doubt a U.S. based customer service rep would get uptight about my efforts to protect his or her job, as anyone in that business knows it is a serious danger right now regardless of his or her accent. If they were to be upset, that's unfortunate, but irrelevant.

I won't supporting the outsourcing of jobs from my country. I don't believe in being inpolite with people as a rule, but I certainly do believe in taking corporations who practice outsourcing to task.

If you want to handle it differently, that's fine, but this is a tactic that I've used successfully.

[unkokusai]

If you want to handle it differently, that's fine, but this is a tactic that I've used successfully.



Leaving aside your willingness to offend fellow citizens based on the way they speak, how many companies have changed their minds about profit and loss and reveresed outsourcing policies based on your phone tactics?

[Samurai Jack]

The principles are the same for any mass socio-economic action:

If and when enough people do something that effects a company's profits, changes occur to improve the profits.

As an individual, I can't concern myself overly with what other people choose to do, because I can't control that. Nevertheless, by the same token I can certainly do my part of a collective by taking action. The short term success or failure of my individual effort is irrelevant. It's the collective effect of many efforts that will create the desired outcome. Therefore, on an individual level, the point is to take action.



Is outsourcing of jobs from the U.S. of concern to you?

Do you have an alternative way of dealing with it that you like to employ?

[bodhitree]

Actually, I have done this, although not as an employee of said company.

Whenever I need to call an 800# for any kind of help and get someone on the line who is obviously not a native english speaker, I politely ask to speak to someone who is i.e. "I'm really sorry, but I can't understand you. Would you transfer me to someone in the U.S.?"

Invariably they do, although it often takes some convincing. Once that's done, I have my issue resolved with the U.S. rep, I tell the operator that I don't support their company outsourcing, and I add that I won't ever speak to someone from outside the U.S. I had to cancel an old membership to McAffee (anti-virus) because they didn't have a U.S. customer service rep.

The bottom line is this: If most customers are from the U.S. and they won't speak to or work with outsourced employees, those companies won't keep hiring them.

Maybe it'll catch on.


That's a really good idea, but the only thing I'm going to do differently is ask them their location. I don't support outsourcing, but my wife is a customer service rep with an accent (although she primarily deals with Spanish speaking customers).


Thanks for the idea!

Scott

[sanjuro_ronin]

Actually the amount of Chinese exports going to America has been reducing in recent years because of other developing nations producing cheaper goods than China (Vietnam, Honduras, Bangladesh for example). Boycotting China would NOT disrupt the american economy, the forces of supply and demand would create a demand that would gladly be filled by other developing nations. China actually has a large population with many needs and has been importing many goods from other developing nations, so these nations have manufacturing infrastructure already in place.


A lot of stuff from those places comes from China, even if what only the "raw material" used to make the products.
Its not that clear cut, its a world market and many of the things we get as the end users have crossed over many borders.

[Black Jack II]

Leaving aside your willingness to offend fellow citizens based on the way they speak,

I do the same thing. Why should I put up with someone who can barley speak the tongue when I am the one calling for help.

Forget that, they are already wasting my time, I don't have time to be PC with such nonsense.

[unkokusai]

I do the same thing. Why should I put up with someone who can barley speak the tongue when I am the one calling for help.

Forget that, they are already wasting my time, I don't have time to be PC with such nonsense.



So if someone is a US citizen, working in the US, who speaks English but happens to have an accent, that is a problem for you? That is wasting your time?

[unkokusai]

Is outsourcing of jobs from the U.S. of concern to you?



Fear doesn't change economics. Were you one of those types back in the early 80s who got ****ed at people for driving Japanese cars?

[Samurai Jack]

Fear doesn't change economics. Were you one of those types back in the early 80s who got ****ed at people for driving Japanese cars?

I'm not really following you. Maybe I didn't state my question clearly, so I'll try again.

Is the issue of exporting high paying technical jobs out of the U.S. and into third world countries where the people are paid very poorly an issue that you have a position on?

[Drake]

Not true and not a valid assumption.

While this is the case in point with some brands, it doesn't apply to all.

you would probably be flabbergasted to know that a great deal of computer parts are made right in the US of A in California. Not saying that a lot isn't made in china, the cheaper knock off brands almost all are, but Japan takes a lot of the work as well.

The finished product you have will have a great deal of made in USA.


I'm talking about solid state, not chip innovation. I'm not flabbergasted, especially with the misleading "Made in the USA" tags on everything. Just because it is assembled here, or the brand new shiny chip constructed in the US was put on a circuit card made in China, does not make it American. I stay on top of the IT field, and I promise you that most of the commonly constructed solid state is not manufactured in the USA, and China is picking up a huge chunk of that, be it your motherboard, power supply, wi-fi, graphics card, or even your mouse, some part of that was made by someone who isn't Japanese or American.

The US leads the world in IT innovation... at the moment. Some parts are manufactured and developed here, but there's still a LOT of computer left to build.

[unkokusai]

I'm not really following you.

Yeah, it seems that way.



Is the issue of exporting high paying technical jobs out of the U.S. and into third world countries where the people are paid very poorly an issue that you have a position on?

First, they are not paid "very poorly" by their local economic standard. Second, market forces will determine where goods and services originate no matter what politicians or populists tell you. This will happen whether we like it or not. Economic shifts always create pain and that does well and truly suck, but most sneakers ain't gonna be made in the US again until those workers in Vietnam are paid about the same as they would be here, at which point the ones to be sold here will be made here again because shipping costs will no longer make sense.

Don't have to like it, but fighting it will only drive MORE business overseas and ultimately fail. Protectionism does not work and controlled economies ALWAYS fail.

The ugly truth.

[Drake]

Yeah, it seems that way.




First, they are not paid "very poorly" by their local economic standard. Second, market forces will determine where goods and services originate no matter what politicians or populists tell you. This will happen whether we like it or not. Economic shifts always create pain and that does well and truly suck, but most sneakers ain't gonna be made in the US again until those workers in Vietnam are paid about the same as they would be here, at which point the ones to be sold here will be made here again because shipping costs will no longer make sense.

Don't have to like it, but fighting it will only drive MORE business overseas and ultimately fail. Protectionism does not work and controlled economies ALWAYS fail.

The ugly truth.


GAWD...finally someone who understands economics instead of shouting "THEY TOOK OUR JOBS!" like backwater rednecks with no economic training except knowing that their savings account earns interest.

[unkokusai]

GAWD...finally someone who understands economics instead of shouting "THEY TOOK OUR JOBS!" like backwater rednecks with no economic training except knowing that their savings account earns interest.



Jus' keepin' it real, bro...

[Samurai Jack]

First, they are not paid "very poorly" by their local economic standard. Second, market forces will determine where goods and services originate no matter what politicians or populists tell you. This will happen whether we like it or not. Economic shifts always create pain and that does well and truly suck, but most sneakers ain't gonna be made in the US again until those workers in Vietnam are paid about the same as they would be here, at which point the ones to be sold here will be made here again because shipping costs will no longer make sense.

Of course, no one can disagree with the basic premis of these facts, but these basic concepts don't exist in a vacuum. You are leaving the consumer out of this equation. How do you feel the consumer, i.e. supply and demand, might effect where goods and services originate?


Don't have to like it, but fighting it will only drive MORE business overseas and ultimately fail. Protectionism does not work and controlled economies ALWAYS fail.

How do you figure that fighting the outsourcing of customer service jobs will drive more business overseas? How will this cause the economy to fail? Can you think of an example where this has occured before?

[Drake]

Of course, no one can disagree with the basic premis of these facts, but these basic concepts don't exist in a vacuum. You are leaving the consumer out of this equation. How do you feel the consumer, i.e. supply and demand, might effect where goods and services originate?



How do you figure that fighting the outsourcing of customer service jobs will drive more business overseas? How will this cause the economy to fail? Can you think of an example where this has occured before?

"Supply and demand" isn't an economic term, FYI. Outsourcing, the way it's done now, is new in terms of application. The economy hasn't failed, but businesses that have failed to adapt sure have.

[Samurai Jack]

"Supply and demand" isn't an economic term, FYI.

Thanks for the tip. Fortunately, you understand my meaning.


Outsourcing, the way it's done now, is new in terms of application. The economy hasn't failed, but businesses that have failed to adapt sure have.

I will give unokusai's argument the benefit of the doubt here... perhaps there is some example neither of us is aware of that he will provide.

Meanwhile, we were specifically discussing how a consumer led boycott of a business's outsourced customer service jobs might effect the business's use of foreign customer service representatives.

Hope that clarifies. Do you have anything to add to that specific issue?

[Drake]

Thanks for the tip. Fortunately, you understand my meaning.



I will give unokusai's argument the benefit of the doubt here... perhaps there is some example neither of us is aware of that he will provide.

Meanwhile, we were specifically discussing how a consumer led boycott of a business's outsourced customer service jobs might effect the business's use of foreign customer service representatives.

Hope that clarifies. Do you have anything to add to that specific issue?

Isolationism is a failed tactic. The US economy hasn't ever collapsed from it, but we have suffered a sluggish economy over it in the past.

[Samurai Jack]

Certainly this is true. But customer service is not really a product per se. Instead it usually is used to support customers of a product in order to ensure thier satisfaction and continued business with a company. Unsatisfied customers are unlikely to continue doing business with said company. This translates to a loss in revenue.

So if the company's effort to satisfy customers fails, then the company must either change it's strategy, or lose revenue.

According to unokusai, being unwilling to do business with companies that employ foreign customer service representatives "will only drive MORE business overseas and ultimately fail."

Do you agree with him? If so, why?

[Drake]

Certainly this is true. But customer service is not really a product per se. Instead it usually is used to support customers of a product in order to ensure thier satisfaction and continued business with a company. Unsatisfied customers are unlikely to continue doing business with said company. This translates to a loss in revenue.

So if the company's effort to satisfy customers fails, then the company must either change it's strategy, or lose revenue.

According to unokusai, being unwilling to do business with companies that employ foreign customer service representatives "will only drive MORE business overseas and ultimately fail."

Do you agree with him? If so, why?

That's speculative, but it would hurt the business overall. Personally, I think customer service shouldn't be outsourced due to cultural/linguistic differences, but the economics of it are driving the push to outsource. People will still buy Dells, and you'll be hard pressed to get enough people to boycott them over a CSR issue.

[sanjuro_ronin]

In a global market, which is what we are in, any type of protectionist move will just backfire eventually.
Out sourcing non-skilled labour is a fact of business life in this "new world economic order", sometimes simple because it is needed ie: 24 hour service lines or because it is the only ay to be competitive.
Skilled labour is another matter.
Problem is defining what is skilled and unskilled at this point.
I will give you an example of the world market we live in:
My company is currently doing a Job for Molson Canada in BC, this job is for a German Company that won the bid.
So, we are a Canadian company building a piping system for a Canadian company ( my customer) that is being sold to a German company that is selling said system to a Canadian Company (Molson).
That job has parts from the UK, Argentina and China on it, raw material from China, India and Canada and is being built to a Canadian Standard AND a North American/world standard ( ASME).

And this is nothing new.

[sanjuro_ronin]

That's speculative, but it would hurt the business overall. Personally, I think customer service shouldn't be outsourced due to cultural/linguistic differences, but the economics of it are driving the push to outsource. People will still buy Dells, and you'll be hard pressed to get enough people to boycott them over a CSR issue.

I know of two companies that outsource CS and payroll to India because they run payroll for all their branches around the world and need 24 hour access and support and it is not only cheaper, but makes sense to have someone in India take the call at 3 in the afternoon local time than someone in Canada take the call at 2 in the morning, know what I mean?

[Black Jack II]

So if someone is a US citizen, working in the US, who speaks English but happens to have an accent, that is a problem for you? That is wasting your time?

If that accent happens to be so thick where the work they are attempting to do is unproductive than **** right it does.

Since when is it my job to spend an extra 10 to 15 minutes on the phone trying to understand what someone is saying, why should I have to take this time out of my day?

It is fully within my rights to speak to someone I can understand so I can get the job done.

[David Jamieson]

It's not the tax breaks that go to companies that outsource, it's the fact that they outsource at the rates that they do.

In short, we shouldn't be importing goods that we can make at home for a comparable price.

The whole purpose of outsourcing is the bottom line.
It is exploited for the benefit of c levels and shareholders.

Of course, some items, you are not going to be able to et elsewhere, like say, chinese swords for instance.

But do our shoes need to be made in thailand when they can be made here and people here can work and make those shoes instead of working 3 jobs trying to keep it together in the ever growing service industry.

I mean, where did anyone think that this would go? Did we honestly think we could al get by walking each others dogs, serving each other cheeseburgers and seeling each other cell phones we can't afford that were made in china or india?

This is the problem when you lt the free market get a little wanton in it's ways.

Jobs must be contained in the country of origin until it is absolutely necessary to start looking at ways of increasing production elsewhere because you ahve no choice.

I think if your common north american knew the conditions that so many chinese and indian people had to work in, they might likely boycott the products they are pushing out.

[Shaolinlueb]

this is great, the canadians know more about our country then we do :rolleyes: :D

[sanjuro_ronin]

It's not the tax breaks that go to companies that outsource, it's the fact that they outsource at the rates that they do.

In short, we shouldn't be importing goods that we can make at home for a comparable price.

The whole purpose of outsourcing is the bottom line.
It is exploited for the benefit of c levels and shareholders.

Of course, some items, you are not going to be able to et elsewhere, like say, chinese swords for instance.

But do our shoes need to be made in thailand when they can be made here and people here can work and make those shoes instead of working 3 jobs trying to keep it together in the ever growing service industry.

I mean, where did anyone think that this would go? Did we honestly think we could al get by walking each others dogs, serving each other cheeseburgers and seeling each other cell phones we can't afford that were made in china or india?

This is the problem when you lt the free market get a little wanton in it's ways.

Jobs must be contained in the country of origin until it is absolutely necessary to start looking at ways of increasing production elsewhere because you ahve no choice.

I think if your common north american knew the conditions that so many chinese and indian people had to work in, they might likely boycott the products they are pushing out.

Unskilled labour has been out/overpriced for what the consumer is willing , and able at times, to pay for it.
You like your 48" LCD for 1200 bucks?

[MasterKiller]

I think if your common north american knew the conditions that so many chinese and indian people had to work in, they might likely boycott the products they are pushing out.


Watch the documentary "Mardi Gras: Made in China."

[David Jamieson]

MK- I watch a show here called 'the passionate eye'. It's run by the CBC and runs indie docs on all sorts of subjects.

Lately, many shows have been conditioning us all for the culture shock that we are going to encounter with teh olympics being in China.

so, the last couple of years have been quite a lot of shows about daily lives of chinese people.

I swear, I felt pity for almost every person portrayed and they were just living everyday normal lives in china.

Starting with 'Kungfu Business' a show that shows the two different paths of two people as they entre into training at shaolin temple in teh wushu guan that Shi Deyang was overseeing. The conditions shown are everyday things, but to the average canadian, holy crap! is that a dirt floor! Do those guys actually drink that water? etc etc.

Next was a 2 hour show about a couple of urabn bejing people an dthe competition they have to go through to get a job that you or I would not bother with competing so hard to get.

Afetr was the story of a boy at school and how his family wanted him to become the class monitor instead of another boy who was being a bully. The end result was that the bully kid bribed the entire class with candy and was re-elected as class monitor even though he constantly berated and bullied all the kids. This was to demonstrate the foundations of corruption and how the let it be attitude lets that grow. anyway...

There was one about a woman who became pregnant and how the family planning people came, kidnapped her, sedated her, sent her to a hospital where a forced abortion took place. wild eh? I was amazed! This is "normal" there.

a couple of others were about olympic kids in china and how they live and train. Much more brutal conditions than what our athletes face. no kidding. no family for long periods of time etc etc. and the training is as brutal as can be expected.

the last one i watched was about how factory workers sustain themselves in china.
with bossmen running factories and al the workers are living in what amounts to dorms or camps, again they are away from their families for months at a time etc etc.

in all these things there are views of the averag life of a chinese person both rural and urban. The vast majority of China being what you or I would consider poor, the attitudes about humanity and the daily living conditions etc etc.

the gaps are huge between those within the circle of free market tied to PRC and then ...the rest.

I'm sure by the time we are all witnessing it daily, it should be a matter of "oh, those chinese".

individuality is not a big thing there apparently. a sense of self is frowned upon in most instances. at least as far as what i've seen.

[sanjuro_ronin]

MK- I watch a show here called 'the passionate eye'. It's run by the CBC and runs indie docs on all sorts of subjects.

Lately, many shows have been conditioning us all for the culture shock that we are going to encounter with teh olympics being in China.

so, the last couple of years have been quite a lot of shows about daily lives of chinese people.

I swear, I felt pity for almost every person portrayed and they were just living everyday normal lives in china.

Starting with 'Kungfu Business' a show that shows the two different paths of two people as they entre into training at shaolin temple in teh wushu guan that Shi Deyang was overseeing. The conditions shown are everyday things, but to the average canadian, holy crap! is that a dirt floor! Do those guys actually drink that water? etc etc.

Next was a 2 hour show about a couple of urabn bejing people an dthe competition they have to go through to get a job that you or I would not bother with competing so hard to get.

Afetr was the story of a boy at school and how his family wanted him to become the class monitor instead of another boy who was being a bully. The end result was that the bully kid bribed the entire class with candy and was re-elected as class monitor even though he constantly berated and bullied all the kids. This was to demonstrate the foundations of corruption and how the let it be attitude lets that grow. anyway...

There was one about a woman who became pregnant and how the family planning people came, kidnapped her, sedated her, sent her to a hospital where a forced abortion took place. wild eh? I was amazed! This is "normal" there.

a couple of others were about olympic kids in china and how they live and train. Much more brutal conditions than what our athletes face. no kidding. no family for long periods of time etc etc. and the training is as brutal as can be expected.

the last one i watched was about how factory workers sustain themselves in china.
with bossmen running factories and al the workers are living in what amounts to dorms or camps, again they are away from their families for months at a time etc etc.

in all these things there are views of the averag life of a chinese person both rural and urban. The vast majority of China being what you or I would consider poor, the attitudes about humanity and the daily living conditions etc etc.

the gaps are huge between those within the circle of free market tied to PRC and then ...the rest.

I'm sure by the time we are all witnessing it daily, it should be a matter of "oh, those chinese".

individuality is not a big thing there apparently. a sense of self is frowned upon in most instances. at least as far as what i've seen.

No offense David, but what is your point?

[unkokusai]

individuality is not a big thing there apparently. a sense of self is frowned upon in most instances. at least as far as what i've seen.



I don't know about that. Statements like that have almost become cliche, and any degree of validity they might ever have had is certainly diminished since the CCP has come to mean the Chinese Commercial Party in reality more and more (much the better that it be so) than the Chinese Communist Party in terms of how most people live their everyday lives.

[unkokusai]

If that accent happens to be so thick where the work they are attempting to do is unproductive than **** right it does.


And does "so thick" mean anyone who doesn't 'sound' exactly like YOU? If you were speaking to someone with a "thick" New York or Southern or Chicago or Boston accent would you bark at them and demand to speak to a 'real' person?

If someone originally from Mexico who recently became a US ciitzen after several tours of duty in Iraq was on the other end of the phone and if you cared to you could understand him just fine, would he not be worthy of speaking to your lordship?

[unkokusai]

I think if your common north american knew the conditions that so many chinese and indian people had to work in, they might likely boycott the products they are pushing out.



1) It is a bit arrogant to assume most people don't 'know' what you do. Don't give a **** is a safer bet.

2) If it would mean the things they bought cost two or three or a hundred times more? I don't think your boycot would last five minutes.

3) Don't kid yourself that some people aren't working in less than ideal conditions somewhere at sometime in every country.

[David Jamieson]

1) It is a bit arrogant to assume most people don't 'know' what you do. Don't give a **** is a safer bet. really? I don't think so. why not conduct a small straw poll in your place of work or maybe around the sunday dinner table. see for yourself how much the people around you are aware of the rest of the world. I beg to differ and I don't think it's an arrogant assumption to make.

2) If it would mean the things they bought cost two or three or a hundred times more? I don't think your boycot would last five minutes. unfortunately, you are probably correct, that's the sad part isn't it?

3) Don't kid yourself that some people aren't working in less than ideal conditions somewhere at sometime in every country. oh I don't. But it is a matter of scale now isn't it.

besides that. The point was sanjuro ronin was to convey that I was more or less getting the comment that MK made and chose to elaborate on the subject.

[sanjuro_ronin]

besides that. The point was sanjuro ronin was to convey that I was more or less getting the comment that MK made and chose to elaborate on the subject.

Ok, I assume it was that Mardi Gras: Made in China post?

I know a few people that have come back from China over the last few years and yes, the conditions compared to hear are appalling at times, one can say the same for many other non-communist countries and even some areas in Canada and the US.
Again, not sure what point you were trying to make with your post.
Are things bad in China for the population?
Yes.
Are people exploited by the government?
Yes.
Nothing new there and only different from here because of the DEGREE.
Some people here (N.America) have no place to live, no food to eat, get kicked out on the street with their whole family, including children.
Schools have bullies and their are shootings and rapes in schools.
While I don't know of any forced to have an abortation, I do know of some that were forced to get one in "back alley's".

I am not comparing, just reminding about the dangers of stones and glass houses.

[David Jamieson]

yes. I have seen the mardigras film.

It was part of the series.

[unkokusai]

really? I don't think so. why not conduct a small straw poll in your place of work or maybe around the sunday dinner table. see for yourself how much the people around you are aware of the rest of the world. I beg to differ and I don't think it's an arrogant assumption to make.



Sorry Obama, the "who gives a ****?" still wins.

[unkokusai]

If it would mean the things they bought cost two or three or a hundred times more? I don't think your boycot would last five minutes. unfortunately, you are probably correct, that's the sad part isn't it?



No, its just life. And could you learn to use the quote function a little better?

[Black Jack II]

Unk,

I don't know what kind of straw man you are trying to set up but my position is simply for those that don't want to stare at it from a simple and clear angle.


And does "so thick" mean anyone who doesn't 'sound' exactly like YOU?

No. Thick means that I can't understand the person on the other line because they can hardly speak the langauge in a clear manner which is a part and parcel of their job.


If you were speaking to someone with a "thick" New York or Southern or Chicago or Boston accent would you bark at them and demand to speak to a 'real' person

Are you high or just trying to sound clever?

When did I bark at anyone? Where you there during these calls?

Stating that I want to speak to someone who can help me on a functional level, a customer service rep that does not waste my very valuable time, often time that is being wasted by me having to call for the issue already, is again well within my rights as a consumer.

What don't you get about that?


If you were speaking to someone with a "thick" New York or Southern or Chicago or Boston accent would you bark at them and demand to speak to a 'real' person?

When did I say they are not a real person?

I just said they were not being helpfull. Big difference for your information.



If someone originally from Mexico who recently became a US ciitzen after several tours of duty in Iraq was on the other end of the phone and if you cared to you could understand him just fine, would he not be worthy of speaking to your lordship?

This is just retarded. How would I ever know this in the real world?

BTW, most of these people are not Iraq war veterans who are Mexican ex-pats.

But a good deal of them are of middle eastern decent or with thick ghetto accents. In the end the point stands, I don't care what you sound like, but if you are wasting my time, **** off and find me someone who speaks clear.

[unkokusai]

. How would I ever know this in the real world?
.


You wouldn't, but you would dismiss that man anyway just based on the sound of his voice. That's pretty poor. I don't think too many of the people working on the phone in customer service are going to have accents that you honestly cannot understand if you bother to try. I think you hear an accent and immediately get bent out of shape. That is weak-minded and not going to change a thing about the sometimes painful shifts in a global economy.

[Black Jack II]

You wouldn't, but you would dismiss that man anyway just based on the sound of his voice.

Not correct.

I would dismiss him because he is wasting my time, because I don't understand what he is saying, because his communication is not in clear enough english for me to get what I need in a reasonable amount of time.


That's pretty poor.

No.

That is the real world. I expect a reasonable level of assistance when I am often paying for it.


I don't think too many of the people working on the phone in customer service are going to have accents that you honestly cannot understand if you bother to try.

Really....which world do you live in?

Not everyone of course, not by a long shot, a lot of customer service reps on the phone do their job very well, but you do run into some real doozy's and it is more than just one or two let me tell you.

And second, why should I be bothered to try, why should I go out of my way to deal with someone who can barely sound out words in proper english?

They are there to help me. Not for me to help them.


I think you hear an accent and immediately get bent out of shape.

That is a sloppy judgement call that has no basis in the context you are putting it in.


That is weak-minded and not going to change a thing about the sometimes painful shifts in a global economy.

Global economy.....I just want the person to speak proper english when I am trying to get a cable bill error corrected or find out why my contact lens have not come in.

Get real.

[unkokusai]

And second, why should I be bothered to try.

Because communication requires two sides, and when one side is just being a lazy **** and refusing to even try to speak with anyone who doesn't sound exactly like himself then the chances of effective communication diminish rapidly. And that is YOUR fault. If you just feel like saying "I hates them furunurs!" then be honest enough to do so instead of being a prissy little **** about it.

[David Jamieson]

hmmmmn.

How did this become about personal prejudices?

:p

[Black Jack II]

Because communication requires two sides, and when one side is just being a lazy **** and refusing to even try to speak with anyone who doesn't sound exactly like himself then the chances of effective communication diminish rapidly.

No. You sound like an emotional ass right now. Communication when I am paying for it requires the side I am calling to provide me with decent service so my problems or goals can be addressed in a proffesional manner.

Stop putting your made up crap into what you "think" I am doing, I already stated once for you already that I give a fair amount of breathing room to those on the phone who may not come across that clear, but I am not going to waste my time when it goes into the absurd.

Where is your comprehension?


And that is YOUR fault.

Nope. It is the 110% fault of the company hiring people who do not speak clear. Again I ask you what your comprehension problem is?


If you just feel like saying "I hates them furunurs!"

Keep sounding like a twit. It suits you at this point.


then be honest enough to do so instead of being a prissy little **** about it.

Again with being a twit. I don't know how much more clear I can be on how reasonable service in a normal length of time should be expected and this service should be by a person who speaks in a clear and direct fashion.

But don't worry I am sure you will twist what I said all around because right now you are acting like a spoiled retard.

[David Jamieson]

you guys are both falling to name calling and back biting.

Now, there's no love lost between you two and me, but yeesh guys, swing it back round will ya.

[Drake]

A requirement for the job of telephonic customer servce is clear and concise speech. Failure to possess this, no matter WHERE you are from, should result in you not being employed in said field. It just so happens a huge amount of people in India have issues with this requirement.

[David Jamieson]

A requirement for the job of telephonic customer servce is clear and concise speech. Failure to possess this, no matter WHERE you are from, should result in you not being employed in said field. It just so happens a huge amount of people in India have issues with this requirement.

I would think the same is true of people in Kentucky. :p


j/k but couldn't resist

[unkokusai]

No. You sound like an emotional ass right now.



And you sound like a prissy little prince who takes any 'scary' voice that doesn't sound EXACTLY LIKE HIMSELF as an opportunity to give a hard time to someone doing a thankless job because its part of your irrational ****ing-in-the wind anti-globalization plan. :rolleyes:

[Black Jack II]

And you sound like a prissy little prince who takes any 'scary' voice that doesn't sound EXACTLY LIKE HIMSELF as an opportunity to give a hard time to someone doing a thankless job because its part of your irrational ****ing-in-the wind anti-globalization plan.

Seriously, anyone with have a brain can see you reading bull**** into what I am saying, your just making stuff up.

You seem to have a very serious comprehension issue.

A: No where did I say a person has a scary voice. I stated that people helping you need to be clear and concise in how they are addressing you. In specific to the context of customer service.

How this has to do with a scary voice is beyond me. Try and be clever and put a racist spin on it because it makes you sound ****in stupid.

B: Why is it a thankless job? I thank people for there help all the time when I call for assistance and they provide it in a usefull fashion that does not waste my time or include ignorance.

Hell, I have fired off emails stating what excellent jobs certain people have done, going above and beyond for these types of things. Being in the business world, I understand how much of a good thing that is and how hard it is to find.

C: irrational ****ing-in-the wind anti-globalization plan.

I have a plan...?

You are the one sounding irrational dude.

[unkokusai]

How this has to do with a scary voice is beyond me. .



Not its not. You just don't want to own up to it.

[Black Jack II]

Not its not. You just don't want to own up to it.

LMAO. Whatever:rolleyes:

[unkokusai]

Yeah, whatever...