Ngo Cho Kun and Northern and Southern Tai Chor

[Firehawk4]

What can someone tell me about Ngo Cho Kun and Northern Tai Chor and Southern Tai Chor ? Is southern Tai Chor the art that lead to the creation of alot of Southern arts that use Sam Chian , Som Bo Jin , Nine Step Push or 3 step Push , Sup Luk Dung , Sui Lien Tao ? what are some good books on Northern Tai Chor and Southern Tai Chor ?

[boh]

Firehawk,

here is some info on Tai Tzu which may help...

disclaimer: I am no authority on this, tho' I have been a long time Ngo Chor practioneer. Much of the history of Kung Fu lies in oral tradition, and is passed down from teachers to students. As with all oral traditions, it is hard to verify certian facts, but what I say here has been from conversations from others that are more knowlegable than I.

Tai Tzu/Tai Chor caomes from an ancient lineage, supposedly founded by the 1st Sung emperor, circa 500BC. It was 'designed' to be a practical battlefield technique, able to be taught and applied withn a short time. As the capital of China was then in the north in Henan province (where northern Shaolin temple is located now), this form gave rise to the northen Tai Tzu styles, which I know little about.

However, in the later years, the Tai Tzu emperor was ousted by his brother and he was exiled to the south, and rumour has it that he ended up in Fujian province, where Southern Shaolin is located (which together with Canton) was the hotbed of development for most of the Southern Shaoalin arts. Here, Tai Tzu could have been transformd to the current Southern Tai Tzu styles, which was also incorporated into Ngor Chor (WuZu, Five Ancestors). Southern styles typically have shorter strokes and tighter stances due to the need to fight in tighter spaces, or on boats. They also have different power generation techniques due to the shorter strokes.

The principle of Southern Tai Tzu is to have very tight defenses, hence very closed-in elbows (no more than shoulder width) and tight stance with front knee turned in (to prevent groin kicks); the fore-arms and hands are kept rigid, like twin blades. Unlike other styles, it relies almost entirely on linear motions for its strokes and power generation, with finger jabs and powerful slashing/slicing cuts with hands, fingers and forearms held rigid as blades. It also uses low kicks and vicious foot stomps.

It is predominently a (very) 'hard' physical style, although from what I understand, at higher levels it becomes 'softer'. In its hard form, it uses body mechanics and large muscle groups in the shoulders and chest for power generation. In its softer form, it has more internal work (Qi, Jing) and uses that to generate power.

In Ngor Chor, it contributes the harder, power techniques. In fact when you play Ngor Chor forms 'hard', its difficult to distinguish it from Tai Chor, and some of the Ngor Chor in Fujian is more similar to Tai Chor, instead of having a mix of hard & soft techniques that is typical of my lineage of Ngor Chor (Chee Kim Thong).

As for its influences on the other Southern Arts, I can only speculate, as it does pre-date most of the other art forms. There could have been 'borrowing' of techniques from Tai Tzu, bearing in mind its mostly a hard, linear techniques. Obviously it does have influences on Ngor Chor. Although I would think that Sam Chien is more connected to Bai He (White Crane, another well-known Fujian style), but I think Tai Tzu has little influence on White Crane.

[Laukarbo]

on following youtube channel u can find some rare ngo cho kun clips from the 60s and 70s..

www.youtube.com/HungKuenYatGar

[wu-ji]

Southern Taicho is the core frame of Ngo Cho. It is the most straightforward and easiest to learn from all the ancestors of Ngo Cho.

I believe that high level Ngo Cho is both hard and soft although my lineage interpretation might be different from Mr. Boh's.

It is normative for Ngo Cho student to learn the art from the Taicho side: solid frame, strikes and blocks, all good and practical learning steps.

[Firehawk4]

Thanks guys . Do you know of any books on Southern Tai Chor or Northern Tai Chor ? I have 4 Ngo Cho books Robert

[wu-ji]

Northern Tai Cho is very common. It is also called Taizu Changquan, or simply Changquan a.k.a the Long Fist. Don't get it confused with the contemporary Wushu version, though.

[Firehawk4]

Does Ngo Cho Kun have a Lo Han Quan (Immortal Fist)
form ? and does Ngo Cho Kun use the Phoenix Eye Fist ?

[PlumDragon]

Does Ngo Cho Kun have a Lo Han Quan (Immortal Fist) form ? and does Ngo Cho Kun use the Phoenix Eye Fist ?The Ngo Cho Ive seen and learned had a Lohan set. Its the same Lohan set you see commonly done in a number of other styles.

Someone else can answer about the Phoenix eye, I dont know enough about Ngo Cho to say--With that said, no Phoenix eye shows up in the first 2 or 3 forms (San Zhan, 20 punches, tai zu iron body version of san zhan, etc).

[wu-ji]

Ngo Cho Kun does have southern Lo Han Kun inside. It is, however, more of an amalgamation of its ancestor styles.

If we are talking about phoenix eye fist as a fist in which you use the middle joint of the index finger as the impact point, then yes. However, it varies from person to person and from lineage to lineage.

For my lineage, it is an alternative of our commonly-used vertical fist. One of my grandteacher was big on using that, while I am not.